In reply to Do0m (msg # 320):

Thanks! I try.

In reply to Do0m (msg # 318):

Although I've played lots of dark heresy, rogue trader and only war I find the savage world setting as it has less over the top big armoured guys with huge guns. And to me it feels even more grim dark because it has more of a human scale to it which actually makes it more frightening.

In reply to jamat (msg # 322):

I agree, rather than being one of the teeming trillions of humanity, you're literally the last known survivors of the human race. The tech levels and cultures of the two primary human civilizations seem to be a bit more in line with the extremes one might expect. Unchecked capitalism, or religious zealotry. Though I always thought the mercenary angle would have been more appropriate from a role playing standpoint.

Hmmm, I wonder if Necropolis' Fantasy Grounds conversion does alright...

So Pinnacle just announced that in about a month, they will be doing a Kickstarter for the new SWADE edition of Deadlands. Discuss.

Hope its good ... honestly I stopped backing RPG kickstarters as I can't get anyone to play the games I back, and I'd rather not spend the money for PDFs I never use.
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:09, Tue 21 Jan 2020.

I do have a fondness for Deadlands, so if I had some disposable income at the time I'd likely bite.  However last week someone broke out the window of my car and stole my bag, so that's $450 for the glass alone to fix that problem.  Thanks, whoever did that, I really needed that kind of unplanned expense.  Unless the KS deal is amazing I'm probably going to have to be an adult and say no and get my car fixed instead.

I will get it however.  It's a question of when not if.

Worst.  Timing.  EVER!!!   PEGINC apparently has a Corporate Hindrance of "Bad Timing"  >_<

I really want to get this, but just had to replace Hot Water heater as well as found out my new house shouldn't have passed inspection before being sold due to water pressure.  (Legal range is 35-65, with 70 psi on extreme upper edge, I had 105 psi and this was discovered following a pipe rupture across the street).  Corresponding flushing of system resulted in leaks showing that hadn't been there before.

Coincidentally, I also had to have water pressure valve installed and 3 fixtures replaced.  They went ahead and replace toilets in bathrooms while at it (something I was going to do eventually, just not right now...)

So that, tied with hospital bills for trip to ER on Christmas, I'll see you your $450 and raise you $8500....  *eep*  Ramen noodle will be my friend for a year...

On the bright side, all work has a 2 year warranty on it and new Hot Water heater means 6-10 year warranty.  Old one was 14-15 years old.

Although  I agree.. I will end up with it eventually.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:37, Tue 21 Jan 2020.

In reply to The Stray (msg # 325):

Like others have said, I might bite if I have the money, my finances are being directed to a lot of other things, including a horror convention where I'm going to be boothing for my podcast. I've only ever had the old core rules, before they divided it up between Storytellers book and Players book, and the only use I've gotten from it was your Play By Post campaign, granted that was probably some of the most fun I've had playing in a PBP game but there it is.

Now I have a solid online group, but as I'll be downsizing some in the future, my concerns might lean towards digital and Fantasy Grounds releases, with maybe the core rules as having a physical copy is always nice to supplement the digital.



I have missed so many of their kickstarters, only finding out when they're near the end or after they've finished, and almost always at some point when money is super tight. I think the only one I've been able to snag was their Last Parsec one. Oh, and the OTHER horror Western.


What I'm more interested in, however, is when they'll release a paperback version of the SWADE rules. The most success I've had in getting people to play, has been how affordable an entry fee SW has. While $30 smackers is certainly more affordable than $50 for a PH, it loses the oomph of going "Hey, core rules for this cool as hell system are only $10! That's like, a six pack of beer!"

In reply to Do0m (msg # 329):

I also relied on the mighty "it is only $10 guys" price tag tactic. My current group has all bought SWADE. But snagging people new to savage worlds is even trickier.

I'm really interested in seeing the Companion updates.  I'm really hoping Fantasy Companion gives options for non-combat spell usage.  The ranges/durations as presented in SWADE are clearly close-range combat only.   Even Rituals don't allow for decent extended durations and having to overhaul the magic system with house rules is keeping half my group from wanting to touch the system.  :/

(Providing fundage is available at the time....)

In reply to shady joker (msg # 330):

I got tired of digging for the info on it and just e-mailed Pinnacle, got a reply from Shane almost right away. Apparently there are no plans to release an Explorer's Edition as it's just no longer economically viable for them. There will be a Test Drive set of rules, eventually, but nothing in the works at the moment. This kind of bums me out as accessibility (and streaming) are the two things that have resulted in the burst of popularity for D&D and Pathfinder. Not that $30 for core rules isn't a damn good deal, just unfortunate that the two things that would help put a new edition of Savage Worlds out there for new blood aren't really being focused on.

In reply to bashful_batrean (msg # 331):

Sadly, the only mention of Companions I can find is from the SWADE Kickstarter.



Not a single Companion update that we know of. Not even a little PDF rules update for the Sci Fi and Supers Companion. If anyone here was part of the Kickstarter, do you recall any status updates on the matter?

I know PEGInc is a small company, so falling behind on such things is to be expected, I just hope things don't turn out like the last time they discussed doing Companions, and with them working on a Deadlands Kickstarter, a part of me is afraid they'll just keep pushing it off. That said, I'm more than happy with the Deluxe Edition and, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I've not heard of anything so amazing about Adventures Edition that I'm champing at the bit to update everything I have for a system I have a hard time getting groups together for.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:20, Wed 22 Jan 2020.

In reply to Do0m (msg # 332):

But they were trying to keep the PDF at $10 if someone wanted to get it (and like all their publications, PDFs are free with purchase of print copies).  Besides,$30 for a universal game that can handle all settings/genres isn't shabby.

In reply to bashful_batrean (msg # 334):

Oh, I understand, and a $10 PDF is certainly good, as is a free PDF with a physical copy (though I think that should be standard practice in the digital age), and while it's certainly not bad by itself, it's still a downgrade from where they once were, where one could get the core rules and PDF for $10, as well as a Test Drive PDF + 1-Sheets, as well as the little "Wild Hunt" bundle.

Now, one small thing I think they could do to improve accessibility, is a fairly simple change: On their website, in the top bar menu, on the far left, they should include a "New to Savage Worlds?" option. This could take an interested party away from the news page that means nothing to someone who is trying to find out more information about the game itself, to a page that provides a run down of Savage Worlds and it's design philosophy, perhaps with a link to Test Drive v7 (or wherever it'd be now), a link to some novice 1-shots and pregen characters, the core rule store page, then below that follow it up with a blurb on each of the mainline settings. This would be a simpler version of what a larger game like D&D does, or what Monte Cook Games does, and probably wouldn't rely on much web design to include. They'd still have their $40 core book + PDF combo ($30 for just the book if you go to Amazon or the like) and make the game that much more accessible to people.

I suppose technically it's $40, I had $30 on the brain because I was thinking Amazon, rather than retail.

I hope I'm not coming off negative. As I mentioned before, I certainly understand the lack of an Explorer's Edition, I simply think that more could be done to help the game grow, especially now when there's such a boom of RPG's. That they had a new edition out and no fast-play rules to speak of when Critical Role ran their UnDeadwood miniseries, that just feels like a missed opportunity to help the game grow.

I think one of the biggest things that hurts is that it isn't very "D&D".
Most of the settings are not medieval fantasy as expected by people that are interested in "D&D Style" games.

D&D is the 800# gorilla and to siphon off players you need to offer "something like it only better".

We can do all kinds of games with SW is great and all but it seems most people want to play "D&D" or what they imagine that is.

As PEGINC has said from the beginning of SWADE, the publishing community won't allow for the $10 pricing on the revised book.  I wouldn't be too surprised if they ended up taking losses on SWDX Core; although the quality of SWAdE is beyond Explorer's and Deluxe.  Given 15% larger page size and 12% more pages (206 vs 181) than SWDX, it's also likely by word count and interior art they surpassed bargain pricing for printing the had early on.

Just like D&D books are no longer $12-$18, Savage Worlds can't be at $10 a Core book without taking serious losses.  Consider for a lot of folks, the Core rules and free 1-shots is all they ever bought, so counting on someone dropping $20-$25 on the support material didn't always pan out.

In reply to GreenTongue (msg # 338):

I'm not so sure. Granted my experience is anecdotal at best, but most people I pitch the system to, love the weirder settings, they want something other than D&D. Cyberpunk, World of Darkness Vampires and Werewolves, Investigative Lovecraftian Horror. Most people I find who are interested in a new system want something that very much *isn't* D&D or terribly derivative of D&D.

So with Savage Worlds, emphasizing the flexibility of the system and the interesting settings has done me the best. Post apocalyptic fantasy with sky ships? Cool! Wild west with weird supernatural horror? Certainly! Victorian adventure wherein heroes graft monster parts on themselves? Cool! Beasts and Barbarians? Hellfrost? Or any other Savage D&D-like setting? I typically get a 'Meh, might as well play D&D' or 'But I already have Pathfinder'. Not saying one can't sell it as an alternative, but most I run into want another system for something else, there's already a slew of systems that effectively do D&D.

At least that's my admittedly limited experience.

In reply to bashful_batrean (msg # 339):

Yep, as mentioned before, I understand completely. Though a part of me hopes they release an Explorer's Edition, maybe not $10, but $20? A man can dream! That said, there are low cost ways to increase accessibility, such as a simple web portal for n00bs to check out, and Test Drive rules.

In reply to GreenTongue (msg # 338):

I can agree with this to a point.  I've played various "D&D-esque European Fantasy" games that mish-mashed lots of things and where the mechanics weren't D&D, certain conceits like non-combat spells or durations longer than "for combat purposes" were common among all of them.  Savage Worlds only failing (aside from the ever-mutating Chase Rules) has always been the magic system.  I want to see PEG present a viable "Fantasy Spellbook" that looks at functionality beyond combat applications inside a dungeon (or on a tabletop grid).  SW has got to be the most "miniatures oriented" RPG I have ever seen.

Granted, my pet peeve is nerfed magic in RPGs, so it tends to be the first thing I evaluate overall.

This system works pretty good for Deadlands (albeit at close ranges), but it falls short of what I envision in my "typical" Fantasy setting.

Huh, different strokes I suppose. I'd rank 4th Edition D&D at the top of the list, with 3rd Edition and most of its iterations a close second. I have an easy time doing theater of the mind with 5th edition, about as easy as I have with Savage Worlds DE when you tweak the running mechanic, which is easy enough to do. That said, I've heard some people claim they have an easier time running theater of the mind with 4E than 3rd, guess it depends on how you handle it.

I only played 4E once, and 3E came out as a miniatures game, so some of the mechanics were highly reliant on grids I agree.  But I ran 3e for years and we managed TotM with it.  What I meant by the SW comment is mostly focused on the magic system.  Everything is ranged to fit on a standard battle mat, whereas projectile weaponry could easily extend to and beyond the edges.  At least the early editions of SW made some efforts at balancing ranges, SWAdE just restricts to close combat.

Case in point, I was adapting parts of an old D&D adventure to SW and an opening scene had players on a boat near the middle of a river.  An ambush occurs with archers 80' away on shore.  (Call it 27 yards for ease of reference. 13-14" in game terms.  The spellcaster was a "buffer" type, with teleport and shape change.  The thief with a sling was the only one who could engage (at long range. she aimed every other round so only -2) as the archers pegged the craft.  Bolt might've been able to hit has the mage been there, but he only had a d6 Smarts originally, so Range of 12".

This was a 3rd level encounter for D&D, the SW characters are 1-2 Advances into Seasoned, I didn't think it would be too hard, until I realized the range limits.  Even Teleport required a Raise to get to the shore.

For 3e, 3.5e, and 4e and several other FRPGs this wouldn't have been a game stopper.  In SW if it hadn't been for the fact archers were covering swimmers who were acting as a boarding party so melee was forthcoming, the game would've ended due to player frustration.  The gunwales offered total cover, and the other PCs couldn't see any options other than hide given everything was out of their range.

Both of these players are new to SW.  One loves her martial-arts style character, but at ranged she's only got a sling so she didn't want to have to stand and risk being a target (the Thief burned through 2 or 3 Bennies having to soak hits) without a good chance of the risk paying off.  The other (buffer mage with some thieving abilities) is a calculating player but couldn't figure anything he could do to engage so he put Armor with Increased Toughness on the others.

This helped them survive, but no way to engage.  I seriously thought it would be the end of the game (and essentially it was except for a Halloween session).

Granted, as a GM I should've altered some distances, but this emphasized  my key issue with SW, the magic is geared to short-term, melee-ranged (close quarters) encounters.

I was using a hybrid no-PP system where PP could be spent to offset the casting penalties (otherwise the mage failed his spells half the time) in order to try to get what I was looking for with spell-slingers.  It still didn't work all that great and at this point we're looking at ripping spell ranges/durations from other systems and using the SW variant to determine Rank/Point Cost.

SPC works well, but it intentionally steers away from the effects that are "Magic" in Fantasy.  (I thought about just having Mages use SPC to make characters, but the powers are geared towards the "flavor" of other Genres.


EEP!  Too long!
This message was last edited by the player at 12:39, Thu 23 Jan 2020.

So you have had good luck running non-D&D games here?

Which setting(s) did you use? How many people applied to play?