As always, GM trump applies.

(Now that I found the FAQ, I can read it ... )

It's good to point those things out, but they don't really clarify whether you add the Heritage rolls of whether the last one overrides the previous ones.

However, I found a couple of posts by Rich Wulf (former L5R developer) on the Alderac forums that suggest I was mistaken and that the Heritages do "stack".

If you read the charcter creation example in the book, after the first roll, they say the fictional player feels his luck is not with him and reconsiders using his last CP for a second roll.  The intent seems clear that it would have been a second, seperate heritage with all the benefits/penalties it would have brought with it.  If it was a "re-roll", then there would be no question as to whether he should reroll to try to get rid of the bad first roll.
This message had punctuation tweaked by the player at 06:02, Sat 10 Feb 2007.

Well since the GM didn't object initially to Ukyo's stacking of his 3 Heritage rolls, I figure that's how they work.  Since I don't ever use Heritage rolls (I dislike randomness in my character creation), I can't say I've ever really given it much thought (maybe my view was adversely affected by the somewhat negative & discouraging example provided in the 3rd Ed. book lol ;)

Heritage Rolls aside... KnK, do you intend for all the PCs to know each other (and perhaps to all start out together) from the start of the campaign?  If so, then we should probably work out the connections & relationships between various characters.  I know we've made a start to some degree... the 3 Kakita School Duelists probably know each other, Sachi has some history with Ukyo (sparring partners and/or "friendly rivalry"), Musashi met & befriended Sachi during his Musha Shugyo, it is possible that upon return to Crane lands Sachi introduced Musashi to Ukyo.

Again all tentative ideas for background links.  But KnK, do you want us to tie everyone in (one way or another)?  I.E. should we already work out how Sakura met the Duelists & the Monk?  How some of us at least know and/or are friends with Naruhime the courtier?

If Yoshida is a Daidoji Yojimbo, then it is likely that he'll need a "charge" to bodyguard for... Sakura or Naruhime would be likely potential charges.  Fumimaro, while he may not know the "rogue" Sachi (who left his formal schooling for a Musha Shugyo), would likely have gotten to know Ukyo at the Kakita Dueling Academy (or at least that's a possibility).

How Sakura, Naruhime & Yoshida would be tied into the Duelists & Monk is less clear though certainly not impossible to work if that's what we (or more importantly you KnK) want.  ;)

Just wondering?  ;)

yes, my intention was that all of you know each other and are given a single mission (sorry for not making that clear at the beginning) I've been meaning to get something started, but stuff came up, I'll have something up by monday

Perhaps one of us ran into Sakura at one of the O-Miai meetings.  :)

Heh. O-Miai would have been one of those things that moved Sachi into leaving in the first place.  ;)

Heh, well, there's a few other PCs that could find it acceptable.  :)  At least upon first glance, but a few people haven't filled in much character detail yet.
This message was last edited by the player at 06:43, Mon 12 Feb 2007.

Well, here's a couple things for you:

Sakura's Yojimbo would pretty much have to be Daidoji. From experience I can tell you that those pesky Kakita won't let her go off by herself, and they especially won't let her do things that might be ... less than honorable. Either that or she wouldn't have a permanent Yojimbo at all.

And the Yojimbo would probably need to be Female under normal circumstances. Either that or he wouldn't be guarding her at a number of "inopportune" times, like when she's sleeping or in the bath.

So the Yojimbo thing is probably out.

As far as the O-Miai goes, don't forget that besides the "intended" there are always witnesses and such present. And she could have easily been present at any number of political negotiations.

Hmmm ... her brother is a graduate of the Kakita Academy (there is a long story about her brother that involves a Crab, a female Doji Duelist assigned as her Honor Guard, and a Scorpion plot that "failed"), and she's visited him on a number of occasions. Anyone from the academy could easily know her from there.

She's kinda hard to miss ...

Well Naruhime is probably watched by at least 1 Yojimbo, if not more. She's a treasured Doji Bride (or at least they want to make her one) in the time just after the Clan War... she's an asset they can not overlook.

That said, even if they can't watch her while she is bathing, they certainly can stand within earshot in case she screams.

More than likely her Yojimbo would be a duelist, though family wouldn't matter so much. And she is more than happy to use her talents to aid in any courtly intrigues that the party members find themselves in.

Hmm... so does someone want a Daidoji Yojimbo?  If not, then Yoshida might be in a tough spot (unless the GM wants to run an NPC "charge" but that might complicate things).

Of course Naruhime could have Yoshida as her main day-to-day Yojimbo and perhpas one of the Kakita School Duelists as a "secondary" dueling Yojimbo (or "champion" for any duels she might be challenged to)?

This double Yojimbo situation would tie in Naruhime & Yoshida with the Duelists... and the Duelist 2nd Yojimbo would be the link to the other Duelists (and via Sachi and/or Ukyo, a link to Musashi).

Now as for Sakura... well it could be that since she doesn't have a Yojimbo, it has been arranged for her to accompany Naruhime.  After all, Sakura was being planned for a "trophy bride" as well.  Maybe the hope is that Sakura can learn from Naruhime's example?

OR... there could be some family connections.  We have 2 Doji (a courtier & a duelist)... they could be related (1st cousins maybe)?  Also some of the Daidoji might be closely related as well.

The Kakita and Musashi (who is formerly an Asahina) are probably not that closely related to anyone else (but that's not definite either).

So some of the connections could be "family ties" or "family obligations"?

Sakura... the rules/restrictions about Yojimbo who are different gender than their charges... does this apply to brothers & sisters?

Hmmm ... insert the sound of gears turning well, Sakura doesn't take too much effort to conceal her emphasis on the Daidoji's Duty (e.g. she doesn't have any ranks of Perceived Honor). It could easily be that Sakura is supposed to be "training" to appear more honorable so that they can arrange a better quality husband for her.



On the other hand, Sakura's Uncle (the youngest brother) is trained in the Asahina school so there could be a tie there. I could easily see him asking Musashi for a favor ...



No, immediate relatives are fine. So if the Daidoji Yojimbo wanted to be Sakura's Brother that would be fine (though he probably still couldn't accompany her to the bathing area ...). Cousins are a bit iffy, but probably alright -- especially if they were raised together.

One of Sakura's Aunts could easily have married ... well, practically anywhere, so Cousins could work with pretty much any of the PCs. Three of the Brothers have been defined (Sakura's father and her two uncles), but there are probably others ...

I wouldn't mind playing a female character, if that makes things easier. Yoshida is based on a female Daidoji Yojimbo character I played a long time ago anyway.

As for the day-to-day yojimbo vs. dueling yojimbo issue, I really doubt Rokugani samurai would see things that way. In fact, it'd be a terrible insult to either yojimbo, suggesting they wouldn't be able to deal with both kinds of threat to their charge. And in case it matters, Yoshida's gearing up for the Kenshinzen school. He's probably fairly close to a dedicated Kakita duelist in dueling ability, close enough not to warrant a stand-in to begin with.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:43, Mon 12 Feb 2007.

Does Yoshida mind the Daidoji that "dirty their hands" with dishonorable activities?

Yoshida wouldn't question the honour of anything done for the Crane Clan as ordained by the Crane Champion. He doesn't justify his own actions by the same argument, but he firmly believes everyone should look to his own honour first and leave that of others to them.

I'm pretty much done with the background and the mechanical stuff, but background and (dis)advantages are subject to change if it were preferable for Yoshida to be female. I'll post everything as soon as that's decided on, that should give everyone a good idea of what kind of character he/she is.

"I'll post everything as soon as that's decided on, that should give everyone a good idea of what kind of character he/she is."

Just so we're clear, that's meant as encouragement to weigh in on the decision. ;-) I'll go female if it helps, but if there's no reason to do so I'm simply sticking with Yoshida as is.

Well, let me put it this way: if Daidoji Sakura says "We're sneaking into Akodo Bozo's quarters to plant some evidence" what would his/her response be: "Count me in, sounds like fun!";"Well, I suppose if we have to ..."; or "count me out! If anyone asks me, I'll just say you needed to be alone for your meditations."?

That's rather more dishonourable than what usually comes to mind for underhanded Daidoji actions. Those usually focus on gaining a more direct military advantage (ambushes, sabotage, that kind of thing). I expect there might be a few other characters in the group who would have a problem with this. But assuming this is just Sakura speaking of something she intends to do on her own and talking only to Yoshida:


Not a chance.


Most likely, since the duty of protecting his charge is more important than personal honour. But only if he can't persuade Sakura otherwise, and be prepared for a serious argument.


Nah. If he's in the know, not taking part but otherwise going along is not better than actively helping out. In for a penny, in for a pound.
This message was lightly edited by the player at 17:40, Wed 14 Feb 2007.

Well aren't the Daidoji the "underhand" of the Crane Clan?  The Family willing to do dishonorable deeds so the rest of the Crane Clan can maintain their honor without risk (thus explaining why the Daidoji Harriers start with lower Honor than the other Crane Schools)?

At least that's how I always viewed them but maybe I have the wrong view of the Daidoji?

The way I always thought it was is that yes, the Daidoji are willing to do dishonourable things for the benefit of the Clan, but not just anything. They're supposed to be the military might of the Crane and will do whatever it takes to fullfill that role effectively despite often (at least against their n°1 opponents, the Lion) being at a numerical disadvantage. That means raids on enemy provisions, guerilla tactics, ambushes, singling out enemy officers to disrupt the chain of command, using terrain and natural circumstances and whatnot. Necessity trumps honour in war for the Daidoji. Deception, intrigue and dirty pool in the courts however are something else entirely, especially since the Crane are only rivaled by the Scorpion in political power. There's no need to get dirty in this case.

I'd call them pragmatic but not necessarily 'underhand'ed.

To compare them to other clan stereotypes, they are more akin to the Crab than the Scorpion.  Well, at least that's how I see them.  :)

Ahh... well I guess I don't see much difference between the Battle Field & the Courts... both are areas of conflict and both need to be dominated for the success & survival of the Clan.

After all... some of the Doji Courtier's "Favors" involve some pretty shady areas.  I have a feeling that one of the key ways for the Crane to remain on top at the Courts is to use some rather underhanded tricks (they only become "dishonorable" if they become publicly known).

Here's an interesting blurb on the Daidoji Family found on the L5R Wiki:

Granted different people may see the Family different ways and in fact individuals can go against Family stereotypes as well (certainly Musashi has walked a far more martial path than his Asahina father would have approved of).

Also it might be important to know how the GM views the Daidoji Family, just for use as a general reference.

That said... please don't feel that I'm trying to persuade anyone to play their characters in any specific way.  Honestly I'm not.  People should play their PCs however they wish, whatever is comfortable and enjoyable.  ;)

I'm just trying to get a better feel for how the Daidoji Family is generally viewed (both OOC & IC).

While I'm a long time Crane Player... I have pretty much stuck to traditional high honor Kakita & Doji (usually formal Iaijutsu Duelists).  I actually know very little of the Daidoji (and not all that much more about the Asahina for that matter).

So I have only a general feel for the Daidoji Family and how it normally operates.  ;)

I exaggerated a bit there, but Sakura is known for (e.g.) going into the "bad" parts of town, seducing (light, not "adult forum" stuff) an enemy, and consorting with dishonorable types to get necessary information.

In other words, if Yoshida is the "only on the battlefield" type of Daidoji gender probably won't make a difference to Sakura. She won't argue about it, she'll just do it.

Also of note is that I'm a very intuitive player, so sometimes I'll do things that just won't make any sense. I'm not always right, by any means, but I play my hunches. So sometimes she'll go to the "bad part of town" because of a hunch and nothing more ...

I certainly don't want to claim to be 100% right on this. By their very nature, the Daidoji are not an easily known family. And especially with things like this, it's a matter of subjective interpretation.
We know the Daidoji have no qualms about seedy business to collect sensitive information. In my mind, that doesn't extend to actually fabricating and/or planting fake info, but it's a thin line. I fully expect opinions to differ, if not on this then probably on other stuff.

That said, to me that's half the fun: not all Daidoji are completely the same, and that goes for every other family out there too - if that wasn't the case, there'd be no interest in roleplaying.


The gender issue is mostly to do with plausibility. If the majority of people involved (and particularly our GM) feel that a male yojimbo for a female courtier or shugenja is improbable, impractical or both and there's no objection from the courtier/shugenja player to have a PC yojimbo rather than an NPC, that's really all the reason I need. Any in-character headbutting and arguing as the result of such a relationship is just part of the roleplaying (not to worry, Yoshida knows full well who has the final say in any difference of opinion between a yojimbo and his charge).

Maybe the example you chose (planting false evidence) is not the most representative for this issue though. It's just over the line, while doing unsavoury things to gather info which can then be used against a political opponent is close to but not over the line (again: to me, or at least to Yoshida. Not every player and certainly not every Daidoji will make the same distinction). All in all, it's difficult to get something subjective like this across in a few short sentences. We could probably go over it for days.


That makes sense. If it worked once, it's worth trying again.

Due to being busy i havent got to post in a while but to go back to an earlier conversation...I have a few connections that are possible. One is the Kakita Bushi school, another the fact that i am a Doji so could know Naruhime that way. I dont mind being related to another player at all. Another two possibilities that i can look into when the GM gets back to me is that i have Imperial connections (Having an imperial spouse!) Therefore anyone dealing with courtrooms may know me that way. The second one to be organised with the GM is that i have a social position which i was hoping was a military one, therefore someone may know me due to my military position. All just ideas.Iv left my background fairly open and am willing to change it around slightly to suit the backgrounds of others. So any suggestions from other players on how you wish to know me or relate to me are welcome. lol :-)
P.s. I am no longer doing an evening job so i should be able to post regularly now. So i can throw in my suggestions.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:42, Thu 15 Feb 2007.