Just have this thread so that TFs can be developing alongside Faction without my having to somehow catch people on IM or use PMs on a consistent basis. Obviously, this thread will be deleted once TF's can start on it's own.

I got an idea recently that I could follow a City of Heroes type pattern and offer pre-made archetypes with customization being less the stats and more the abilities. The pre-made archetypes, of course, will come with their own set of stats. This would not only make things less complicated, but also would make sure balance is there. Lemme know what you guys think.

On a side note, I'm actually getting ideas from watching the Japanese "Headmasters" and the far more recent "Transformers Animated". In fact, the recent purchase of a couple TF Animated toys is what spurred the CoH idea mentioned above. I noticed NO mention of stats on the boxes. This is a first for Transformers in all TF history. But it got me to thinking and said thinking led to the thought mentioned.

For balance issues, I'm thinking:

 Heavy hitter = slow, less firepower, high armor, high strength
 Glass cannon = ranged, best firepower, very fragile
 Balanced = medium everything
 Defensive = good armor, below average firepower and strength, medium speed
 Powered = More focus on special powers and below average on every stat.

(I'm sure Joe and Mittens will see the HEAVY CoH influence here, but again... it's just an idea at the moment and I'd rather clear it through you guys first before giving this a second thought)

An interesting thought I *just* had: Transforming from one archetype to another because vehicle mode suggests something other than robot mode does. Or go Final Fantasy 3 / 11 on this and allow any of the archetypes to be a secondary set as well. Just a thought...

I reeeeally like that idea.  2 thumbs up!  :)

  Things come to mind for the balance stuffs.  Rantbits all aimed at past experience elsewhere, followed by ‘good thing Tim is sane’ stuffs.

  First up, my latest ‘oh sweet merciful crap why?’ run in with balance rules.  Simplified version without delving into other bits was categories went damage/to hit + to dodge/defense/turn frequency.

  Cutting a bigger rant short, people with paper thin defenses and high hit/dodge were the win all gig.  Nobody with even max medium accuracy, and in my case max medium everything plus highest legal damage could touch em, or survive.  I reworked this comment several times, then figured I’d stop trying to give elaboration as it always ended up with huge hunk of exampleness.

  A side subject here, the ‘melee weapons do gobs more damage because guns have the advantage of range, honest’ thing.  I’ve yet to ever see this work out for the ranged types.
  Yes, Melee style should have a point, but over years I’ve begun to see why I tend to be the only person with an arm cannon in various Megaman styled things, etc.  Once again, saving space by cutting out the ‘oh MY that’s huge’ amount of examplness… Except this one.
  Most hilarious moment for ‘WHAT ranged advantage?’.  Enemy sniper using obvious glowy beam weapon.  Not allowed to shoot back because ‘you don’t know where they are or where the attacks are coming from’… Then half the melee horde got to the top of a rooftop they were on and busted out attacks, the other half only not there yet because their movement skills and gigs didn’t offer the same nigh instant travel time.  Wait, what happened to ‘can’t attack them because you don’t know where they are’? heh.

  Well, that’s the ‘Balanced can still mean ridiculous imbalance, but with official backing’ angle.

  The good news!  You’re SANE!  A year of everyone with normal accuracy failing, and myself being a hilarious example of Stormtrooper + redshirt syndrome, would not result in you claiming things are balanced still, and to not ‘talk about the past’ when I’m talking about the last fight I was in, yesterday.
  These issues while the sort of thing that could turn up anyways, would be ones you’d try to deal with.

  The ‘types’ idea is sane, yeah.  Always is.  The trick as ever is getting it to work out, and ‘well rounded’ style to actually have practicality over minmaxedness.  heh.

  Though, as much as I facepalm over ‘Larger TFs = better!’ details, I was wondering how Tread would work out.  Further with the CoH examples I guess.  No tough slow ranged types.  And the tough slow with oversized gun gig is quite common in TF.

  But mostly it’s because Tread is awesome I was wondering about.  Could care less if all of a sudden Large and Cannon chars found themselves brickshotted by balance mechanics… Wait, no.  Pointing and laughing is caring.

  So, you’re add on of secondary archtypeness could work out.  (Balanced, with a touch of BIG FREAKING AXE!)   Tread seeing how they don’t have uber str on top of their other stuffs could possibly switch out ‘lower firepower’ for ‘lower str’ (seriously, the various examples of Metron were stronger than her) even without it too.

Chris and I are having a strong leaning towards getting rid of melee. Someone toting a sword, while allowed to, will find it to be cumbersome and nowhere near as effective as a, say, BAZOOKA.

Chris: "Notice how Special Forces guys, while they do go melee here and there, do NOT carry swords? Knifes? Check. Rope? Check. But swords? Ha."

So we're thinking that yes, melee is allowed, just not as effective as GUNS. Oh my goodness. I think people are going to question our sanity.

OK... thoughts on how much fun CoH would be as a TF MMO: Imagine if you chose what secondary power set you got. I think I may have to be in charge of what gets nerfed depending on what primary and secondary one has. I can't say, for instance, Tank with secondary scrapper will have the same scrapper benefits as Gunner with secondary scrapper. See what I mean? Because if I did, SOMEONE would find the "ultimate combo" that clearly makes all other FAIL.

If we do wind up attempting applying common sense to the TF concept, I'm thinking your vehicle mode = your function.  In the classic TF universe, your alt mode was almost entirely for aesthetics.  Are you a Decepticon that turns into a micro-cassette player?  No problem!  You can fly just as fast as a jet when Megatron orders retreat!  Even the slogan "Robots in Disguise" was only part of the equation if you happen to be a spy by trade... no wait... Bumblebee was a screaming yellow VW.

To tie in with the subjob idea, what might be fun is to say that while your primary function is the same as your alt mode, I.E. "Tank" "Jet" "Submarine" etc., your subjob could be any of the common military roles given to soldiers: (Commando, infantryman, marine, paratrooper, sniper, engineer, medic, or sapper to name a few)

Balance?  What's that?  Let's face it.  In the real world, Jet vs. Tank is a very unfair fight.  Tanks are sitting ducks and can't hope to survive even the most basic of missiles a Jet is armed with that they can fire from such crazy distance and with such accuracy and at such high speed as to render the tank without a prayer.

One is left with two options:  either accept that certain types of bots are worlds more combat effective than others, or start explaining away why a helicopter would have a hard time taking out a pickup truck.  Maybe all ground vehicles have some god-armor that renders mountainside-smashing jericho missiles slightly more annoying than a bug bite and flighted bots can't use god-armor 'cause it's too heavy?  Maybe TFs never grasped the idea that kinetic weapons hurt more and are forever stuck on the laughable amount of damage done by beams of light?

I'd sooner go with biting the bullet and accepting that Jet > car.

Jet > car. Yes. Car > human. Yes. I agree with common sense. Just... making it work in a fun RP setting will be the challenge. Now for what I wrote last night:


Archetypes:

OK... here's how it'll go. I'll have people pick what KIND of transformer they want when they apply. Between that and their application is what stats that person will have. The more I like the application, the more likely I will give bonuses and such. For how to make a good application, please refer to "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" Thread.

Here are the kinds one can have:

Balanced
Heavy
Officer
Weapons Expert
Spy
Diverse
Speedster
Flyer
Head   Master
Target Master
Power  Master
Pretender
Triple Changer
Gestalt member (Requires 4 or more other players to apply for the rest of the team)
Cannon Character (Requires an active character to have played for 3 weeks)




Balanced:
This is the all around "average" transformer. He isn't weak or slow. But he isn't strong or fast either. All of his abilities even out and make him a good "middle of the road" character.



Heavy:
This is the "Strong and enduring" type of transformer like Iron Hide, Trail Breaker, etc.



Officer:
This is a guy who is in charge. He may be specifically in command of a small group or have a position of authority over ANY autobot who is lower than his rank.



Spy:
This archetype comes equipped with differing stats and abilities based on what kind of spy you may want. Usually, a spy will be weaker in the strength department and higher in rank. But again... this could depend.



Diverse:
This is someone who, while maybe weaker than the "Balanced" archetype, is quite diverse in their abilities. This archetype allows more leway in how many kinds of powers or abilities you can have.



Speedster:
Created to zoom past the others, the Speedster is built to reach speeds other Transformers wish they had. These guys are anywhere from 1.5 to 5 times faster than normal TFs. No flying mode allowed for these guys.



Flyer:
Capable of flight. How fast of flight is up to you, of course, but bear in mind that since I am trying to keep this place balanced, chances are high that the higher your top speed, the lower your endurance and perhaps skill.



Head Master:
The interesting thing about Head Masters is that they are technically mecha suits. The actual Transformer is not the body, but the head. The body, therefor, is not sentient. There is no partner. Only a Transformer who's alt mode is a head for the robot mode of the vehicle they drive. Advantage: Their bodies are designed to be enhanced versions of themselves. That said, if one headmaster switches bodies with another, the body they are on will get the stats of the headmaster. Disadvantage: These guys are below par in sensing danger and in steering in vehicle mode since they are not quite one with the body like a normal Transformer's primary processor would be.



Target Master
These guys are not so much heavy on firepower (Though they never have below average firepower), but heavy on accuracy. The disadvantage is that your weapon has a mind of it's own and could very well refuse to work for you if you upset it.



Power  Master
Capable of massive all-around power, the power masters are a burst type Transformer who shoots a LOT of energon into a short-lived attack. They not only have the weakness of eating energon very quick, but also the weakness of not being capable of changing to robot mode without the aid of their companion.



Pretender:
This type of Transformer can appear to be human. Decepticon pretenders prefer looking like monsters, however, so if you are apping a decepticon pretender, keep that in mind. Autobots always appear human, however. They are capable of size-shifting in order to blend in with human society.



Triple Changer:
This is a specialty and requires very specific things to be met. All triple changers must have a land mode, air mode and a robot mode. Some transformers have more than 2 modes, but do not count as triple changers. Example: Gestalt members can transform to a robot, a vehilce and a part of a body for a giant.



Gestalt member: (Requires 4 or more other players to apply for the rest of the team)
These guys are a little weaker than the "Balanced" transformers, but get a very special ability that makes them potentially the mightiest transformers: They can merge with their team members into a giant. And in the Transformers universe... size matters. A lot.

  While for the most part those archetype listings are pretty straightforward, more details on that Officer one seem needed.

  Okay, you’ve got a high rank... aaaaaaand what else?  While the ‘I can order people around on top of being better than them in most every way too’ situation would sanely be avoided here, how far towards the desk worker area of skill would it lead?

  If they’re powerful enough to not even need people to order on a battlefield, it’s a bit off.  If they can’t survive on a battlefield long enough to give orders, same deal.

  Along similar lines, pretenders do what now?  Aside from the 'look like something aside from a mechanical thing' angle.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:36, Thu 03 July 2008.

Well... there is a possibility Pretenders won't make it into this setting. Chris keeps going "Hulk HATE size shift! Hulk SMASH!" so I'm just shrinking all anime-style in abject horror. He seems to hate it as much as he hates overpowered characters. I still don't know why... but anyway. Officer.. yeah. Balance. Think Warcraft III's hero units at level 1 or 2. They are higher ranked than anyone else, have better stats, but they better have their soldiers nearby or they'll likely get hurt badly by the opposition. In Transformers, it was rarely ever one-on-one... it was always group vs group. Which I fully intend to take advantage of. ;) And yeah... I was going to focus on making officers smart and skillful. After all.. these are officers... NORMAL officers. Not freaking Optimus Prime or Jazz or some such.

The reasons I don't like size shift is 'cause it turns an otherwise palatable SciFi idea, alien robots that change shape, into a silly "magical" thing where physics only applies when the toy makers feel like making them apply.  I had a hard time as a kid accepting Megatron's alt-mode being smaller than my arm on one day, and fitting into Starscream's hand another.  Isn't he supposed to be the terrible tyrant of the evil GIANT robot army?  Not to mention Soundwave's light enough to be tossed around by humans when in tape recorder mode, but heavier than a tank in robot mode.  Hmmm.

Even if you try to explain it away with science rather than magic, why the heck not use the same science to turn Bumblebee into a Fort Max sized goliath?  Oh wait!  They DID use the tech to shrink some TFs to enter Megatron's brain.  What a great way to assassinate your enemies, and you have no way to actively defend yourself against my killer triple changing, Giant-turned-tiny, can-squish-you-or-pull-you-apart-from-inside TF of DOOM!

On second thought, this is a whole new unexplored gimmick that could make the headmasters look sane by comparison.  First we need to send some terrible plague that the now-empty matrix can't fix.  Then we kill off all the cannon characters to make the plot seem serious.  Then in comes the macron masters to the rescue!  The Scorponok and Fortress of course will have to die to be replaced with Macron Masters who are way more powerful and clever and heroic.  The primary weapons will of course be dual samurai swords.  The Autobot leader of course gets magic swords that can fuse together and get bigger.  Macritimous Prime?  No.  His name needs to be more obvious for the kids.  Shrinky!

*Points up at Mittens' post* Case in point.

  The ‘why can’t we just make Bumbleebee tall then?’ aspect was the sort of thing on my mind more, yeah.  But of course, as usual, I was considering the VS Cannon char aspect.  ‘While we’re at that sort of physics abuse it, can I be a motorcycle and NOT be a stomped on by Cannon chars size too?... no? Why not?  Motorcycles are bigger than handguns.’

  Of course there is also the whole vague quirk that is ‘all those cars, and BumbleBee’s only slightly smaller one means he’s incredibly tiny, while most common cars are almost as tall as prime.’ Zuh?  Jeeps are so not that much closer to Mac Truck size than a VW Beetle.

  Yes, I know the hilarious end of the spectrum will be yet another ‘whee, Cannon Char for the win’ perk.  Even if we went full on custom setting, Soundwave is still gonna be Soundwave... Nevermind tapes aren’t so popular these days, humans also had laser tanks and such wackiness alongside their tapedecks and tickertape spewing computers and we don't have those.  Somebody hire X-com, they can get those researched and manufactured in two weeks tops.  And probably get some human driven Headmasters in a month.

  However, depriving OC’s of the broad ‘we’re all mostly the same size despite obvious differences’ most every TF gets by way of holding measuring tape to their alts to make sure they don’t get too close to Microscope = Giant robot degree would mean a whoooole lot of enforced shortys.  Which then leads back into!...

  Darn youooous, Bigger = win bots! Heh.  Yet More reason to pick anything but large military vehicles blown away ;D  Or, possibly this.  http://cdn-www.cracked.com/art...6-18-08/bunker61.jpg
  And can totally appreciate Mitten's reaction, even if the resulting scenario is terrimafiying.
This message was last edited by the player at 07:58, Fri 04 July 2008.

While Chris' hatred of size shift utterly smashes my hopes and dreams of creating a forum based on the events of what happened between Season 2 and the Transformers Movie, I guess we'll just have to move on to making our own original series that has a strong G1 influence.

The following characters from G1 size shifted:

Blaster, Fortress Maximus, Megatron, Perceptor, Skyfire, Spectro (Reflector), Soundwave, Spyglass (Reflector), Viewfinder (Reflector), Warpath, Zarak (Scorponok's head)

However, after watching Headmasters, I'm thinking Blaster and Soundwave would be just fine keeping their alt modes. There was a scene where the autobots were throwing a party and Chromedome asked Blaster for some karaoke music. Blaster transformed into cassette player mode... but remained the same size as his robot mode suggested.

Similarly, Perceptor supposedly transforms into a microscope. But I don't remember him size shifting whenever he transformed, interestingly enough.

Along those lines, I think Megatron can change into a flying gun just like Shockwave or Sixshot could. Though I'm seriously considering a more Cybertronian style gun like with the two gun decepticons I just used as examples.


So here are the proposed cannon changes:

Blaster:
No change. He is the autobot communications officer and changes into a large sound/comm system.

Fortress Maximus:
No change. Just doen't magically get bigger than he should be (Like the cartoons) or smaller than he should be (Like the comics). His head is the size of an average sized Transformer in the fetal position. So his head is about as tall as Spectro, Spyglass and Viewfinder (AKA Reflector).

Megatron:
I think this is the one who should be changed to a more Cybertronian mode. Not caring whether he is disguised or not, Megatron would forgo the ability to have an Earth mode. Tank, Starship or flying gun, I haven't made up my mind.

Perceptor:
No change from the cartoon at all. Perceptor changes into a microscope that can see things on the smallest scale known to Cybertronians (Which I'm saying is smaller than humans would have discovered).

Skyfire:
I'm thinking a number of things for him. Either he transforms in such a fashion as to leave a large empty space inside (Indicating he expands like a backpack tent would) or he's even larger in robot mode than in the cartoons, or both. OR we could say he can't transport autobots at all. I'm more inclined to go with THAT idea. I think sentient transports for transformers should be giants. And I don't want Skyfire to be a giant. A large autobot who has officer status like the comics have been indicating, sure, but not a giant.

Soundwave:
Same as Blaster. Though I'm pondering a more decepticon approach to his alt mode. Or maybe a more super-computer alt mode. Or go TF:Cybertron and make him a spaceship.

Warpath:
He's not a minibot anymore. Best I can come up with. The only alternative is that he's a minibot who has a tank-like mode, but is still nowhere near the size of a real tank.

Zarak (Scorponok's head):
In order for Scorponok to be large enough to equal Fortress Maximus one idea I had was that Zarak doesn't transform at all, but rather just controls his transforming base from inside Scorponok's head. Another idea is that Scorponok is like Fort Max and has a head that transforms into an actual transformer. Finally, and I have a light preference for this, we could just have Scorponok be a particularly large transformer, about 2 heads taller than even Grimlock, but not a giant. The only problem with this, of course, is the void the decepticons would have of not having a Fort Max equivilent.


This brought up an interesting thought when I chatted with Chris last night about this topic. What about Prime's mysterious trailer? Which I think is an easy fix. A) I wanted to see his portable base to have more action in the series anyway. B) Nothing says Prime can't drag his trailer around from HQ to destination and back. C) If you had a portable base that had a repair bot, a spy bot, a mini supercomputer and missile launchers, wouldn't you use it in just about every mission? And finally... D) Some trucks travel without trailers... Prime could, on occasions where the portable base isn't necessary, simply be trailerless.

The other thought brought up was "Um... what about minibots? Every one of them that is a car technically would have to size shift because of their size in robot mode." Too small to be cars, too large to be other things. I hate to admit it, but this makes Skeeter from Go-Bots look good because he didn't size shift. He changed into a scooter. One thought I had was "Oh well, so much for minibots." Another thought I had was "Hmm... maybe they change into Cybertronian alt modes." and finally, "Maybe they turn into particularly small cars like a mini cooper or some such."

On a final note: Gestalts. In the cartoons, Superion and the Aerialbots were the same sizes as Menasor and the Stunticons even though airplanes and jets are supposed to be much bigger than cars. Let's not forget the Constructicons who are construction vehicles, which should make them considerably large in robot mode. Yet they were on the small side of things in the cartoon when they were in robot mode.

Lastly, and most certainly not least, this means flight is going to have to be regulated since a jet is going to have a clear advantage over most transformers due to not only the ability to fly, but ALSO the fact they would be HUGE by comparison. Without size shift, jet TFs suddenly become as big as Grimlock. So if you want flight for your TF, it will have to be robot mode and decepticon only. Which reminds me....


Decepticons have:
-Flight
-Space Bridges

Autobots have:
-Teletran 1
-Human resources and intel


One final thought: Gestalts are awesome and fun and all... but should they even exist? A question Chris and I always ask is "Why don't they just merge into giants first thing?" It's the Voltron problem. The concept of a gestalt is neato, but what is the advantage of having the seperate parts as apposed to the whole giant on the battlefield?

I should say it now... I would love to have gestalts (and minibots) in the game. I also plan to entirely re-work the cannon chars, their stats and everything since it's clear this is going to be OUR universe, not HASBRO's. ;)

And just for giggles, here's a doodle I threw together while eating pizza with Chris at our fave restaraunt "Frank's Pizza":

http://www.geocities.com/timfe...rchetypes_sketch.jpg

You'll find both his and my handwriting on it. ;)
This message was last edited by the GM at 11:54, Fri 04 July 2008.

Hmmm... no replies to the most recent thoughts, sooo... here's another:


Millions of years ago...

Realistically speaking, I doubt any substance in the universe is capable of lasting that long other than maybe atoms themselves. The second law of thermodynamics states that everything tends towards chaos. In other words, things disintegrate, break apart, disperse and otherwise do NOT improve. I don't want to bring magic into the equation. Chris doesn't want "magic-like" technology to exist (Such as size shifting or magically disappearing / reappearing guns, etc). I'd just as soon avoid that headache as well. So metal can not "magically" last that long either. I'm not saying this because I'm a creationist who believes in a very young Earth. I even intend to keep the Transformers at a pretty old age such as 1-5 million years old to their existence. I just don't feel comfortable making the transformers crash-land on Earth "4 million years ago" and suddenly waking up in modern day.

The new series "Transformers: Animated" has a VERY improved approach to this. 50 years after their crash. They still treat the universe as being easily in the millions of years old range. I will too. They don't give a background to how the Transformers came to be just yet, but it seems TF Animated is hinting at a very "Transformers Live Action Movie" background with the mysterious allspark bringing them life. Which is fine. Here is my proposal: We have a number of backgrounds and which one is for real will not be fully confirmed. If anything, all of them will have some valid backing evidence, which would explain all of the beliefs' existence. Just like real life: Christians, Atheists, Wiccans, etc all have their own ideas of how the world started and each have a reason to believe these things. So why wouldn't Transformers develop more than one idea of how the universe began over the course of time?


Belief 1: the "Divine" origin
About 2.5 million years ago, there was a big fight between two (mechanical*) gods known as Unicron and Primus. They were equal in power and opposite in nature. Unicron, known as the "Chaos Bringer", is the god of Chaos and Destruction. Even the Decepticons fear and hate him since his is not their goal. Decepticons want to conquer the universe.. not utterly annihilate it. Primus is the god of Order and Creation. When Primus hit Unicron with a shattering final blow, Unicron was sent deep into the darkest corners of the Universe. Primus was so drained from the fight, however, that he decided to rest and rejuvenate. His resting state was his alt mode, also known as Cybertron. In this state, he slept and eventually, his dreams began causing life to emerge, creating the first transformers.

Both Autobots and Decepticons who believe this origin believe pretty much the same thing: The Decepticons were created by Primus for both his own defense as well as to bring order to the Universe while the Autobots were created to sustain Primus and keep balance.

(* To the Transformers, organic life is a new concept, so they wouldn't think to mention those gods were mechanical, but would take of for granted. After all, Christians don't describe Yahweh as the great "organic" god.)


Autobots:
The Autobots who believe the "Divine" origin believe the Decepticons lost their way long ago and that greed overcame their real responsibilities. They got overzealous and wound up bringing Chaos where they were meant to bring Order. Some Autobots who believe this origin believe Unicron is to blame and that the Decepticons have become corrupted by his influence over the years. However, very few Autobots believe this origin is real anymore.

Decepticons:
The Decepticons believe the Autobots were created ONLY to sustain Primus and the Decepticons, therefor, the Autobots are supposed to serve the Decepticons. Decepticons who believe this literally believe their god Primus created the Autobots to work WITH the Decepticons, caring for them as they conquer the universe in order to bring order. Autobots who do not willingly serve the Decepticons, therefor, are ignorant at best and blasphemous at worst. Blasphemers must be dealt with harshly. While not all Decepticons are all that religious, there are not many Decepticons who doubt the existence of Unicron... even among the believers of other origin stories.




Belief 2: the "Science" origin
A long time ago, forgotten because of destroyed historical records, supposedly, a race known as the Quintessons were out to discover the lengths of science and how far they could go with it. They created a factory and called it "Cybertron" and then created slave robots. Two kinds of robots: Consumer Goods and Military Hardware.

Over time, the Quintessons got bored and had the bots fight for them for entertainment. But somehow, self awareness had set in and the robots no longer liked to stop functioning. So they turned on their masters. Greatly outnumbered, the Quintessons had no choice but to flee Cybertron, heading for locations unknown. In celebration of their freedom, the Cybertronians worked together to make a better life and the Golden Age began.

Autobots:
Many Autobots believe this background. Supposedly, the Matrix itself contains this very information, which is why so many Autobots believe it as solid fact and indesputable. This means the other two origins are considered supersticious and are sometimes treated as "childish" to believe in. This also means the Autobots believe there is no room for repentance among the Decepticons which is why a Decepticon pleading for mercy often takes Autobots by extreme surprise... or is met with no mercy at the hands of an Autobot who believes it just a deception.

Decepticons:
So few Decepticons believe this that only the most knowledgeable ones even know what a Quintesson looks like, much less what they are. But what few believe this origin believe the Quintessons will come back and that the more this war wages, the less prepared the Transformers will all be to handle such a return.


Belief 3: the "Allspark" origin
Supposedly, at an unknown point in history, an entity known as the "Allspark" came and brought life to Cybertron and created the inhabitants. The Allspark is not really a god or sentient being as far as anyone knows, but rather a supercomputer of mysterious origin that remains hidden. Who is hiding it or if it is even on Cybertron at all anymore is unknown. All that is known is that the Allspark supposedly has the power to make otherwise lifeless machines become alive. This is the most vague belief of origin and does not explain how or why the Golden Age came about and so, is met with much scepticism.

Autobots:
Autobots talk about the Allspark the way they talk about Unicron or Primus... as a fairytale. In fact, there are only half a dozen Autobots who believe it's existace to be a sure thing. Which six believe this is not known since the six have remained quiet about it for the past millennium.

Decepticons:
The Decepticons believe the Allspark exists, but there are very few left who believe IT was the origin of Cybertronians. Megatron makes no bones about the fact he believes it to be a real object and has often repeated that one of his goals is to find the Allspark and use it's awesome power. Why Megatron believes this is unkown to most, if anyone.



KNOWN History: What all Transformers know to be true and thus, believe.

Over time, the "Cybertonians" developed a very successful society with Autobots caring for the needs of Cybertron's upkeep as well as the upkeep of the Decepticons' ancestors (The Cybertronians were not known as "Autobots" or "Decepticons" at the time). When they reached the peak of civilization, law and order alongside prosperity ruled Cybertron for nearly a millennium. This was called "The Golden Age of Cybertron". Energon was plenty, crime was low, the whole of Cybertron and it's inhabitants worked like a well-oiled machine in perfect harmony and everyone had everything they could want. Non-military science was making serious progress. The future was full of promise.

The military, guards and other such martial Cybertronians were restless though. With low crime, they didn't have much room for putting themselves to use. By then, Cybertronians were represented by what is now known as the Autobot symbol, although there were still no such things as Autobots back then. The top providers among the Cybertronians were becoming spoiled and selfish, thinking themselves almost gods. This corruption led to the extreme mistreating of certain workers who worked hard in the energon mines. There was an uprising and the supervisors were killed while the workers disappeared. The current head governor (Who was titled a "Prime") barely gave this incident notice, feeling there were more important things. He was so horribly, fatally wrong. An underground fighting ring that had started up decades ago by a corrupt official suddenly gained massive popularity among Cybertronians of all kinds. A particular gladiator named Megatron was the prize fighter... and one of the escaped workers from the earlier mentioned incident. Megatron was using the fighting arena to gain himself a team of loyal warriors who would follow him in tearing down the tyrrany.

Megatron and his rag-tag, but surprisingly numerous team put up an impressive fight, but in the end were detained... for a time. Starscream pretended to betray Megatron by offering to spill all information to the officials in exchange for his freedom. However, Starscream betrayed the officials and broke Megatron and his gang out of prison. Using the prison and it's resources, the band of rogues made a surprise attack on the capitol city of Cybertron. The one who was called Prime at that time was felled at the hands of Megatron and a new era began. The now-branded Decepticons began their conquest with the intent to take Cybertron and then... the Universe.

Megatron and his Decepticons made much progress in the years following while the Autobots, formed under a counter-measure, desperately tried to fend off the Decepticons. The Decepticons had grown so quickly and unexpectedly that the now full-scale war was so in their favor it was more of a slaughter. It all happened so quick, there were still parts of Cybertron that didn't believe this was happening and even some who looked up to Megatron as a war hero among all the confusion. But it would not be long before Megatron crossed the wrong bot. He eliminated a bot named Orion Pax and his two best friends. The significance was that a member of the Autobot cause named A3 (Who would eventually become known as Alpha Trion) revived Pax and one of the friends into the bots now known as Optimus and Alita 1. The other friend was beyond revival. To this day, Prime will never forgive Megatron for this act. But his vengeance was overcome by an exceedingly burning desire to end the Decepticon plague forever. Inheriting the Matrix from A3, Optimus became Optimus Prime.

Optimus Prime, between his powerful new body, the wisdom of the Matrix and his passion for the Autobot cause proved a match for what was once considered hopelessly matchless. Over the years, Prime's persistence caused the Autobots to fight with renewed wills and hope. But the cost of the war was great. Not only were many lives lost forever, but so was a good portion of their historical records. And as time went on with only war on the minds of both sides and record-keepers dwindling in numbers, it got to where only fragments of history still exist in the archives, dating back to only the middle of the Golden Age for accurate history and becoming nothing more than fragments before that point, like dust left over from ancient pottery.

The war waged for 400 years, give or take a few. The war took a toll on the once rich resources of Cybertron and scientists of both sides predicted the complete depletion of energon in a matter of 600 years. Maybe as few as 200 years, depending on how things increase in the years to come. A plan was made to create smaller transformers who would do most of the fighting over smaller areas while the normal sized ones fought over the rest of Cybertron. While this saved energon, it only delayed the inevitable and both sides knew it. About 700 years A.G. (After Golden Age), the Autobots came up with a plan that Optimus Prime and some of his officers would go into deep space to find another source of energon. Lazerbeak discovered this plan and reported to Megatron who got on a ship and followed them. Things went wrong, there was a fight and the two ships crash-landed on Earth. Cybertron lost communication with the ships and both leaders and their officers were presumed lost forever. But the war continued with Ultra Magnus leading the Autobots and Shockwave leading the Decepticons (Both were officially left in charge of their respective factions by their leaders Optimus and Megatron).

It would only be about 200 years before the volcano the Autobot ship crashed into would erupt, jogging the ship's computers. Teletran 1, the ship's supercomputer, activated and began repair on the Decepticons. Megatron had thought it was over with Prime gone, but Starscream shot at the one exit the Autobots would have had so they would be burried and hidden, just in case the ship should be discovered. Ironically, the avalanch he caused would allow Optimus to be shaken just enough to be thrown into the repair beam, allowing the Autobots to be revived.

Now, the war rages on Earth with communication to Cybertron only being established by the Decepticons so far.

Chris Idea:  Rust doesn't exist on Cybertron because oxygen doesn't exist on Cybertron.
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:53, Wed 09 July 2008.

All great ideas!



Perhaps I overstated my case.  I rarely RP your god chars such as Alexis because it's hard for me to think of a case where it doesn't end up a plot where "Alexis yawns and with the wiggle of her finger turns army of space dragons into sheep... NEXT!"  I do not hate god chars or size shifting.  Plots do exist where god chars are interesting, just that I suck at making them.  Chalk that up to Chris being less than an epic storyteller.  In spite of my "No Gokus" mantra, I enjoyed watching Dragonball and DBZ both.

In the G1 series the whole size shift thing was not a story killer.  It was a mere head-scratcher.  This is because the writers simply didn't apply the logical implications into the story.

*Strongbad voice*  "So... Prime's trailer vanishes when he transforms.  He doesn't use it as a mobile weapons platform like the toy can.  You trying to say something?"

Even Megatron fought with kid gloves most of the time.  Cannon chars didn't get vaporized by his sun-in-a-gun fusion cannon like you'd expect, but this was a good thing.  Things started going horribly wrong when "kill cannon chars" and "blow up Cybertron" writers got a hold of the Transformers.  I can roll with size shift and the many other strange ideas of the G1 TF universe no prob.  However, because you've implied that this TF forum is going to be open to every 12-year-old-in-a-30-year-old's-body-that-can-write-a-believable-app roleplayer skulking about the internet, I was a bit concerned that a TF fan might show up and wreak havoc on the storyline by using cannon TF ideas in ways that were never done in the series but make some sense.

"MegaManXD6 steals a human nuke and launches it at the stationary Autobot base.  Even if teh Autobots by some miracle shoot the nuke with their lousy accuracy it'll blow up 1/2 the state and take out teh base with it lolz.  Decepticons win foreverz and celebrate by playing out my perverted fantasies."

Bottom line is, I'm not saying "either size shift goes or I go!"  Rather, Devil Fish is saying "Bewaaaare!" of allowing cannon ideas in an openish forum unless you're prepared to say in advance, "If you manipulate the plot in any way I don't like, all your posts and your char will be deleted, even if you make sense."

The above applies to my Faction anti-Goku rants as well.

On second thought, you should add the "you are NOT allowed to do everything that's logical" line to all your RP forum rules regardless of the theme.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:19, Mon 07 July 2008.

  Fisrt off, yay sketch.  Though amount of guns isn’t always the issue. I’m looking at you Megs.

  The various BG bits look good, and obviously TF’s have figured out the whole ‘make more of us without ancient thingy’ snag in any given situation.  Who cares who made em, they aren’t completely reliant on them/it for attaining or keeping their kickassery (Matrix disco magic aside).

  The size detail.  Size shift as is also saves lives.  Why would the Constructicons  NEED to Gestalt?  If they already got the bigger=lolbetter thing.  (On a complete side note, MAN I wish Armored Core: For Answer was ever coming out here -.-  You fight  multiple ‘Tidalewave’ through ‘will step on Fortress Maximum, and a nearby city, then launch its standing army’ monstrosities, and win, in an AC)

  I can agree on the ‘too much explained in exacting detail logic to destroy whole planet with terraforming tech found in the glovebox’ baaaaad thing.  I tend to usually try to work closer to (my outlook of at least) theme, even with my odder plans.  Though anything a GM whips out as a plot point or used by others I place firmly into the ‘fair game’ category.
  One such example, being teleportation.  Okay, it’s how we get around... Okay, this is the third time we’ve been all mass teleported to a diff location with no personal say... okay, we’ve been teleported.  Into a cell. With all our equipment gone...

  Later, Darkthorne/Darkthonre variant beats the teleport happy people by also autohitting with teleportation... only deliberately botching the ‘return in one piece’ bit.  A method he’d never have bothered to consider or use had it not turned up in the first place.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:44, Mon 07 July 2008.