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06:15, 24th April 2024 (GMT+0)

Out of Character 2.

Posted by helbent4For group 0
Seth Joseph Delaney
player, 129 posts
Sergeant
PPCLI & RMR
Thu 14 Oct 2010
at 09:55
  • msg #56

Re: Out of Character 2

Tony - as Rachel is interrogating prisoners at present who's driving the jeep?

Ta,

Andy.
helbent4
GM, 1235 posts
aka Tony
Thu 14 Oct 2010
at 13:46
  • msg #57

Re: Out of Character 2

In reply to Seth Joseph Delaney (msg #56):

Andy,

No one! You crash! OH NOOOO!!!!!

Actually, it's Kelsey. I'm not sure I specified that or not.

TOny
Taras Vladimirovich Shevchenko
player, 521 posts
Fmr. 62nd MRD
Senior Lieutenant
Mon 1 Nov 2010
at 06:34
  • msg #58

Re: Out of Character 2

One of the most interesting part of conducting a military operation against the airport is the conflicting doctrinakl views (NATO vs PacWar) rather than the fighting itself.

The plan that Taras has in mind is strictly "Soviet" in nature. If approved by the authorities (and connivance of the rest of the players, of course) we will see how different operational understandings come to play together.
Taras Vladimirovich Shevchenko
player, 526 posts
Fmr. 62nd MRD
Senior Lieutenant
Thu 4 Nov 2010
at 06:54
  • msg #59

Re: Out of Character 2

The MT-55A was an armoured bridge layer, a joint project between Czechoslovakia and Russia, replaced the earlier MT-34. First produced in 1962, it is based on the T-55A tank chassis:




In action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...&feature=related
Taras Vladimirovich Shevchenko
player, 531 posts
Fmr. 62nd MRD
Senior Lieutenant
Sun 7 Nov 2010
at 08:53
  • msg #60

Re: Out of Character 2

Wargaming Soviet Army style:


Seth Joseph Delaney
player, 138 posts
Sergeant
PPCLI & RMR
Mon 15 Nov 2010
at 23:18
  • msg #61

Re: Out of Character 2

OK - I have some ideas for a commando style raid but I can't write them up until Wednesday at the earliest.  Sorry for the delay.

Regardless of the dangers involved in a commando raid the stumbling block is that once on the island (which I can see several ways of achieving) where do we actually go?  Kelsey's contact might be able to indicate particular buildings but, I believe, we have no solid intel regarding where the enemy leadership are likely to be.  We don't know where they sleep or where their HQ is?

Therefore extended recon might be the order of the day!
helbent4
GM, 1246 posts
aka Tony
Tue 16 Nov 2010
at 00:25
  • msg #62

Re: Out of Character 2

In reply to Seth Joseph Delaney (msg #61):

To reassure everyone, Belanger's comments are not meant to sway the debate either way, only to point out that I assume that you will be doing basic common-sense things like reconnaissance of any crossing or insertion point.

Kelsey's Contact is going to be crucial in pinpointing the boss, Basil Wright, as well as other critical information. He's supposed to communicate tonight, so that's something to ask him. Also, the location of landlines. (Being part of the gang's communications network means he could sabotage the system, but that might be too much to ask!

Either way we go, a recce is going to be appropriate. As a GM, I am also aware that players are probably much more excitement over some kind of commando daring-do rather than being cogs in a well-oiled (even successful) machine. That might be an operation to neutralise an HVI (High Value Individual), or in support of an amphibious operation.

We'll try and keep all these priorities in mind as we go forward. At any rate, more information from the Trolls' camp will be forthcoming soon.

Tony
This message was last edited by the GM at 00:39, Tue 16 Nov 2010.
helbent4
GM, 1247 posts
aka Tony
Sun 21 Nov 2010
at 09:57
  • msg #63

Re: Out of Character 2

Kelsey posted some electronics gear you can use.

Following is the link where the surveillance gear is detailed:

http://www.pmulcahy.com/equipm...lance_equipment.html

Tony
Seth Joseph Delaney
player, 140 posts
Sergeant
PPCLI & RMR
Sun 21 Nov 2010
at 21:36
  • msg #64

Re: Out of Character 2

Sorry - not been able to post for several days - am trying to catch up now but probably won't be able to post until tomorrow.
helbent4
GM, 1248 posts
aka Tony
Mon 22 Nov 2010
at 04:45
  • msg #65

Re: Out of Character 2

In reply to Seth Joseph Delaney (msg #64):

Andy,

No worries! Take your time.

Tony
Keith Michael Tremblay
player, 75 posts
Former USMC Infantry
'Hotel Five'
Thu 25 Nov 2010
at 16:31
  • msg #66

Re: Out of Character 2

As a side note, Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate!
helbent4
GM, 1249 posts
aka Tony
Thu 25 Nov 2010
at 21:41
  • msg #67

Re: Out of Character 2

In reply to Keith Michael Tremblay (msg #66):

Certainly, Happy Turkey Day to all our American players!

I was kind of waiting for Andy/Seth to post an alternative plan, I may have to move things on regardless and say he's working on it.

Tony
Seth Joseph Delaney
player, 141 posts
Sergeant
PPCLI & RMR
Fri 26 Nov 2010
at 14:31
  • msg #68

Re: Out of Character 2

helbent4:
In reply to Keith Michael Tremblay (msg #66):

Certainly, Happy Turkey Day to all our American players!

I was kind of waiting for Andy/Seth to post an alternative plan, I may have to move things on regardless and say he's working on it.

Tony


Tony - sorry for the delay.  Please do that as the earliest I'm likely to be able to post an alternative plan is Sunday evening and that's not guaranteed.

Regardless I think that we need more info from Kelsey's contact before any plan can swing into operation as we currently have no idea of the function of each of the buildings on the airport.  We know a physical layout from looking at maps etc but we don't actually know where the HQ is, whether there is an armoury, what other strong points there are etc and before we attempt any operation we need as much of that intel as possible.

Sorry again for the delay in posting this.

Andy.
helbent4
GM, 1250 posts
aka Tony
Sat 27 Nov 2010
at 14:37
  • msg #69

Re: Out of Character 2

Andy,

Sounds good, I will move the story along to where Kelsey's contact gets in touch with the players, and relays important information. Post when you can!

Tony
helbent4
GM, 1254 posts
aka Tony
Mon 29 Nov 2010
at 14:39
  • msg #70

Re: Out of Character 2

For Rick and Marc:

This may not be clear but Andy and Rob are back at UBC and able to take part in the discussion if they wish.

Tony
Seth Joseph Delaney
player, 142 posts
Sergeant
PPCLI & RMR
Mon 29 Nov 2010
at 23:37
  • msg #71

Re: Out of Character 2

I'm writing up my turn post but have forgotten the name of the Bridge Trolls leader - please can someone remind me!

Thanks.

EDIT - it's Basil Wright isn't it?
This message was last edited by the player at 23:56, Mon 29 Nov 2010.
Seth Joseph Delaney
player, 144 posts
Sergeant
PPCLI & RMR
Mon 29 Nov 2010
at 23:58
  • msg #72

Re: Out of Character 2

What boats do we have available besides the Whale-watcher boat?  And who do we have who can crew a small boat?
This message was last edited by the player at 23:59, Mon 29 Nov 2010.
helbent4
GM, 1255 posts
aka Tony
Tue 30 Nov 2010
at 02:04
  • msg #73

Re: Out of Character 2

In reply to Seth Joseph Delaney (msg #72):

Andy,

You have it correct, it's Basil Wright.

Good question on boats, Javier asked the same question a while back and I don't know if I answered it fully. The following vessels can be assumed to have NPC crews:

You have currently operational (stored at the Royal Vancouver Yacht Club):

1x whale-watcher boat
3x Zodiacs
2x Speedboats
1x Jet Boat (high-powered, aka "Relic's Jet boat", locally famous stunt boat used for the 70's-80's CBC-TV series "The Beachcombers")

Privately owned, also at the Yacht Club:

1x 44-foot luxury sailboat/yacht
2x Small fishing boats

At the Musqueam reserve (privately owned):

3x Small-medium fishing boats (4-8 man crews)
1x Speedboat (steel-hulled)
4x Row boats
1x Jet-boat (steel hulled, high-powered, used for log recovery and barge-towing)
1x Barge, unpowered (wooden, big enough to carry a single 2-ton vehicle)

Ongoing Projects:

2x "Landing Craft" barges, steel-hulled, under construction at the Celtic Shipyard on Musqueam land.

Horseshoe Bay/North Vancouver:

6x Medium fishing boats
2x Speedboats
4x Bass boats

New Westminster (privately owned):

12x Fishing boats, medium
2x River tugs
1x coastal freighter
1x coastal landing craft/vehicle transport
1x Oscar-II Class K-141 "Kursk"
4x Small river cargo vessles
4x Speedboats
2x Police patrol craft
2x Bulk cargo barges (large)

Note: New West is included for completeness as this community is unofficially unaligned. These are the boats that are known to be based out of or can be counted in the CBC-TV crew's footage of the riverfront in New West.

PCs with small boat experience/training:

Lt. Cdr. Clarke-Sullivan
Master Sniper Andy McRae
Sgt. Tremblay, USMC
Gunnery Sergeant Conklin, USMC
Staff Sgt Taras Shevchenko, RCMP
Sgt. Hope, ABN
Cpl. Lee, RCMP

The personnel of URIEL that have been at UBC for the past week or so have been training and gaining experience in small watercraft (so Kelsey, Mac, Rachel all have some basic training). None are real experts except for Clarke-Sullivan, who was in the Navy (who's been doing much of the training). Probably the best you have of the soldiers is Fox or Tremblay.

Tony
This message was last edited by the GM at 02:24, Tue 30 Nov 2010.
Seth Joseph Delaney
player, 146 posts
Sergeant
PPCLI & RMR
Tue 30 Nov 2010
at 16:56
  • msg #74

Re: Out of Character 2

OK - so we have quite a large number of boats with NPC crews for them.  There are enough there to give us several options for picking up a recee or commando team.

Next question - I've assumed that the medical facilities at UBC are probably the best in the Vancouver area.  Is that right?
Seth Joseph Delaney
player, 148 posts
Sergeant
PPCLI & RMR
Tue 30 Nov 2010
at 20:25
  • msg #75

Re: Out of Character 2

Taras Vladimirovich Shevchenko:
Still, I don't hear yet of an alternative operation to mine.


Taras - just to be clear is this comment because I as a player haven't put forward a detailed plan?

Because if that is the case I think that that is a little unfair in terms of IC game time.  Seth has had a matter of a couple of hours to come up with an alternative plan so to dismiss the alternative discussions that have been going on on that basis is unfair.

By all means prompt me in the OOC channel to see the alternative plan but making this IC is wrong I believe.

Thanks.

Andy.
helbent4
GM, 1256 posts
aka Tony
Wed 1 Dec 2010
at 03:35
  • msg #76

Re: Out of Character 2

Team,

I think we need to keep moving for for in-game and out of game reasons.

ou're all working against a hard deadline here, and something needs to be banged out ASAP even if it's only a paragraph-long outline. Rough plans can be changed, but I don't want us to get into a situation Colin Powell called "paralysis by analysis".

Example: "We land here at such-and-such time, go there (to be determined), do this, get out that way and if something goes wrong this happens."

This isn't a shot across anyone's bow and no decision has been made, but it's worth noting that this has been kicked around for a while now and I'm sure people won't object to some kind of concrete steps being taken.

Tony
This message was last edited by the GM at 08:30, Wed 01 Dec 2010.
Taras Vladimirovich Shevchenko
player, 542 posts
Fmr. 62nd MRD
Senior Lieutenant
Wed 1 Dec 2010
at 07:37
  • msg #77

Re: Out of Character 2

quote:
Taras - just to be clear is this comment because I as a player haven't put forward a detailed plan?

Because if that is the case I think that that is a little unfair in terms of IC game time.  Seth has had a matter of a couple of hours to come up with an alternative plan so to dismiss the alternative discussions that have been going on on that basis is unfair.

By all means prompt me in the OOC channel to see the alternative plan but making this IC is wrong I believe.

Thanks.


Andy.


Not at all the case. My apologies for any misunderstanding. In fact it is been done in game and not in the OOC for a reason: Taras, Homo Sovieticus, is trying to "sell" his plan with shoe banging Khruschev's aplomb. As I previously mentioned the "battle" of military schools of thought is per se more interesting than the final decision to be made.

Whatever the final option, I'm more than willing to go for it. But as our GM said and I concur:

You're all working against a hard deadline here, and something needs to be banged out ASAP even if it's only a paragraph-long outline. Rough plans can be changed, but I don't want us to get into a situation Colin Powell called "paralysis by analysis".
This message was last edited by the GM at 07:40, Wed 01 Dec 2010.
Seth Joseph Delaney
player, 149 posts
Sergeant
PPCLI & RMR
Fri 3 Dec 2010
at 17:36
  • msg #78

Re: Out of Character 2

OK, as I promised to do this I've outlined a couple of entry/exit points onto the island, some of them potential alternatives to the proposed landing site of Taras' plan (though that is a good option).

I don't think that we have enough information yet to put together a plan for full commando raid as we don't know where certain key personal are likely to be located.  The same is true of Taras' large scale assault plan but that has a benefit that we will be actively engaging the enemy and so, to some extent, will force them to reveal themselves.

I therefore think that we need to do a significant amount of reconnaissance work before we can decide on any plan of action as has already been discussed.  For example having spent some time studying the Airport and its island on Google Maps I have noticed several other locations where a small commando/recee team could sneak onto the island but those locations would be unknown to Seth (and anyone else I'm guessing) unless we have physically studied the "ground".

I don't believe that there is time to do extensive reconnaissance however so we may need to go with limited information - there is time to do some more however!

Anyway, taking the island as a whole the following points to get onto the island (or other points of interest) occur to me at present:



1. Boat Ramp, Woods Island Park (Map A below) - This is the proposed landing site Taras' plan is built around (I believe - my apologies if I'm incorrect on this).  It's shown in more detail in map A below and has a boat ramp as well as a couple of jetties.  There is quite a distance into the main part of the island but it is a long straight road and there is room to organise after landing before moving into the centre.


2. Vancouver International Water Aerodrome (Map B below) - I'm making an assumption that this actually exists in the current game timeline.  This has a couple of jetties designed for boat-planes as well as a boat ramp and is a bit closer to the centre of the island and the main terminals.  There is space to reoganise after landing but there are other buildings very close by and these may be occupied.


3. Coast Guard Station & Hovercraft Port (Map C below) - This has a larger boat ramp but only one small jetty.  It is closer to the main terminal than the Woods Island Park and only has a couple of buildings nearby, though if those buildings are occupied by an enemy force then trying to land will be problematic.


Besides those three obvious landing points for a large force there are several possible small team landing points.  These are:

4. The Western Beach - This looks to be quite large, gentle and devoid of buildings.  Unless this is actively patrolled or mined then sneaking ashore here should be quite easy.  That will put us quite a distance from the main terminal building but the runways are now surrounded by very long grass and so sneaking through that should be feasible.  The key question is whether the Bridge Trolls do anything to protect this beech.

5. The Breakwaters - There appear to be three of these and while they don't sound like good locations to land a small team they could quite possibly make good emergency pick up points should a small team be needing to make a run for it.

6. Sewage Treatment Plant - I'm guessing from looking at the map but I think that this complex of buildings and pools is a sewage treatment plant.  Some of the photos in Google refer to the "shit pipe" as well so I think that it's a fairly good assumption.  Anyway I assume that this complex is not now working but if these buildings are unoccupied then they provide extensive cover to sneak a team ashore out out view of the Control Tower.

7. The Log Piles - We've already discussed these to some extent but, if they are relatively static, we may be able to find a place to land a small team around these parts of the island.

8. Narrow Point - An obvious way to reduce the area the Bridge Trolls need to patrol is to mine this narrow point as it cuts off one chunk of the island.  Finding that out is one of the important questions.



Any plan at present is therefore fairly sketchy because we don't know any key locations beyond the Control Towers.  There is presumably a security control centre in each of the terminal buildings but I don't believe that we have fully details floor plans of the buildings.  Taras - do you have a plan yet for how to assault the terminal buildings?

The area we need to cover is massive but the same is true for the defending Bridge Trolls forces.  They are believed to have 90 soldiers and there is no way that a force that small can securely lock down the whole of the island.  Therefore a small team conducting either a recon mission or a commando raid should be able to move around the island to some degree.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:52, Fri 03 Dec 2010.
Seth Joseph Delaney
player, 151 posts
Sergeant
PPCLI & RMR
Fri 3 Dec 2010
at 18:04
  • msg #79

Re: Out of Character 2

Tony - I have no idea whether anyone would know this IC or not but what other wildlife is found on the Sea Island beaches?  If there is something as large as a seal then a AP mine on the beach might well have been set off at some point.
helbent4
GM, 1257 posts
aka Tony
Fri 3 Dec 2010
at 22:50
  • msg #80

Re: Out of Character 2

In reply to Seth Joseph Delaney (msg #78):

Team,

As a caution, my computer died a really hard death (power supply meltdown) this morning. This is not catastrophic because I can still get on the net, more or less, by stealing time on my wife's computer. However, it's annoying because I had all my files and so on on my own computer, including the rules and all my notes. I'll try and soldier on the best I can until things are sortied out! Meanwhile, on with the show.

That's a good analysis. During the active phase of the war precautions were taken against Soviet air and sea-based attack. Many of these defenses were taken down or have been neglected over time but many of the Trolls once formed airport security detachment and so they would at least be aware of them. Taking your points one at a time:

1) This is the proposed riverine landing site. No minefield warnings or obstacles. The plan is to move in towards the terminal from there. As you lack fire support (direct or indirect) commando operations will be used instead to disrupt enemy force movement and organisation. (That is, take out strongpoints from behind, cut landlines, ambush any reaction forces, etc.)

The main problem with this landing zone is there is a lot of loose timber that has washed up along the riverbanks. At least 3-4 logs will need to be cleared, if not more.

2) There is indeed a seaplane terminal. Before the war, Vancouver had the largest number of seaplanes in the world due to a combination of rugged terrain, many bodies of water, and the needs of a resource industry that operates in remote areas. There are no visible defenses or obstacles other than fishermen report a pair of abandoned-looking bunkers dug in at the top of the ramp.

3) The Coast Guard hovercraft station does not seem to have much in the way of visible defenses, either. It has an intact SN.10 hovercraft permanently parked outside the main building to the SE. It was retired when the new, larger hovercraft came into service. It was featured in the Jackie Chan movie "Rumble in the Bronx" (1995), which your characters may have seen at some point. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVoHt-cg-_g

4) It seems the defenses are still unfortunately mostly intact in this area. Plus, it's basically mud flats (at low tide) below a large earth/sod dike. There are wire traps all through the mud flats which are partially underwater at high tide, plus minefields along the seaward side and top of the dike. As well, there are bunkers dug into the dikes with interlocking fields of fire.

5) All the breakwaters have wire on them to prevent easy landing or exit. Not impossible to cut through by any means but enough to slow any attacker down.

6) The airport probably does need its own sewage plant, so that seems like a reasonable assumption to me. No visible defenses observed here.

7) Most of the log rafts in the river have broken free over the years, and the loose timber has ended up all along the riverbanks and cause continual water navigation hazards. See Note #1. The rafts in the sheltered water (sort of a lagoon) are more stable but there are loose logs here, too. You wouldn't want to walk on the log rafts but you could put a small boat in there without getting it crushed!

8) The narrow point has been thoroughly mined and blocked off with wire, concrete barriers, etc.

Ironically, I have to use Wikipedia myself to determine what wildlife is on Sea Island. It's basically all bird life, although the seal and sea lion population has exploded after the war. They larger mammals avoid the western part of Sea Island due to the wire obstacles that are placed on the mudflats as they pose a serious entanglement hazard. No booms anyone can remember.

Tony
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