Starchaser
 member, 308 posts
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 Posts Monday-Friday
Tue 20 Aug 2013
at 13:02
Watakushi ni nihongo wo oshiete itadakemasenka
NOTE: Please read the whole discussion to get a good picture of the original level of interest

こんにちは ぼく は りちゃーど です。 (Konnichiwa boku wa richa-do desu)
にほんご を おしえて ください。 (Nihongo wo oshiete kudasai)
ひらがな を おしえて ください (Hirigana wo oshiete kudasai)

I am at day zero for learning Japanese. I've been putting it off and off and off... Now there are far too many reasons for me to not ignore my desire to learn it.

I am (painfully slowly) trying to memorize Hiragana at the moment. In reality romanji is probably the only thing that will of use to me in practicality but I want to learn the language properly and for real and I've heard so many bad things about learning romanji first.

I have zero spare time. Even this post is being made in 'stolen' time. This is my biggest problem and my biggest curse.

So. Here's the thing. The language is going to stick in my mind better if I can actually learn it through roleplay. so I would really like somebody out there who is a native speaker to brainstorm some ideas with me to get me learning the language. I can set a Japanese locale on my devices and I can download some tools that should be able to type hiragana out on my devices too (If the above starting sentences work they should display in hiragana but I haven't set the locale on this PC yet so I don't know if they do or not).

The simplest scenario I can think of is a tourist visiting Japan for the first time and being taught the language by a native speaker - very contemporary and slightly boring but this could be expanded into something more fantastical during the course of the 'game'. (Note for added bonus, throw in some romance and make it adult and I'll probably learn a lot quicker. LOL).

I can do this via rmail. I can do this via one of the already set up 1X1 thread based games here, or via a 1x1 game set up on this site.

事前に感謝

This message was last edited by the user at 06:08, Wed 15 May.

drobob
 member, 9 posts
Tue 20 Aug 2013
at 13:28
Re: Watakushi ni nihongo wo oshiete itadakemasenka
I don't know Japanese.

I wanted to throw that out first so not to get you too excited about a reply. But I'm actually liking this idea. I'm in about the same boat. I know a very little speaking wise, but not much yet in terms of any of the writing systems. If you'd be willing, I would like to join in this venture, if you just want a 1x1 experience, I understand and no hard feelings taken.

A parting gift: If you're using Chrome, get Japanese Frenzy from the Play store. If you couple that with a hiragana dictionary, it should boost the written learning pretty well and it's fun.
Starchaser
 member, 309 posts
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 Posts Monday-Friday
Tue 20 Aug 2013
at 13:47
Re: Watakushi ni nihongo wo oshiete itadakemasenka
I use rikaikun (rikaichan in firefox). The translations are awful though. Will take a look at Japanese Frenzy.

I would prefer a 1x1 because I want to learn at my own pace and if its a group game its gonna be harder to do that.

Edit: But - Someone could run a game that is a series of solo "Threads" so each learner could learn at their own pace. (But this is asking a lot of someone, I know).

This message was last edited by the user at 13:49, Tue 20 Aug 2013.

Heath
 member, 2471 posts
 If my opinion changes,
 The answer is still 42.
Tue 20 Aug 2013
at 15:24
Re: Watakushi ni nihongo wo oshiete itadakemasenka
I have a degree in Japanese, worked as translator, interpreter, etc., etc. for 20+ years.

As far as the most bang for your buck, roleplay here is probably not what I'd recommend.  I would only recommend it as a supplement to intensive learning elsewhere.

There are two things difficult for English speakers learning Japanese (other than the kanji, which is not as crucial at the beginning stage):  1) vocabulary (yes, that one's obvious); and 2) the grammatical structure.

Vocabulary is learned through repetition.  Knowing the difference between shuriken and katana, bushido and samurai is not going to help your language.  Beginners need practical, everyday language.

English grammar is in "SVO" (subject-verb-object), whereas Japanese is "SOV."  The mind has to become so accustomed to this different grammatical structure that it can decipher it naturally.  This is through repetition too, particularly everyday exchanges and sentences.

What you need is immersion in the language and Readers that teach you, plus maybe flash cards.  Roleplay would be a supplement, maybe, but I don't see it making anyone fluent.

If you wanted a roleplay session all in Japanese, it would have to be by someone willing to be patient and use only basic terminology.  Otherwise, I presume a Japanese themed RP game would be mostly in English but with some Japanese exchanges by characters.  After you immerse yourself in the language for 2-3 years, the roleplay idea has significantly more value, I think.

That's just my 2 cents worth...

This message was last edited by the user at 15:25, Tue 20 Aug 2013.

Starchaser
 member, 310 posts
 GMT+0
 Posts Monday-Friday
Tue 20 Aug 2013
at 18:01
Re: Watakushi ni nihongo wo oshiete itadakemasenka
Wow. That long, huh?

Well I don't see why I can't do the roleplay in parallel to learning the conventional way. I need methods that make things interesting enough for them to stick in my mind. I have a fairly good memory but it seems awfully selective in how it works.

Anything that can speed up the learning process for me would be a great help.
Pyrate
 member, 308 posts
 Supercalifragialistic
 expialidocious.
Tue 20 Aug 2013
at 18:58
Re: Watakushi ni nihongo wo oshiete itadakemasenka
I agree.
I have a degree in Japanese as well and although I can make normal conversation and read newspapers and so on I still have trouble expressing really simple things in English.

If you want to learn a second or third language I suggest you start with something Latin based.

The largest barrier is not the grammar or Chinese characters (although both are nigh impossible if you're not dedicated enough), but the change in the way you perceive the world and how you think.

Simple sentences like "I'm opening the door" is being changed into "The door is being opened (by me)" or "I'm eating cake" becomes "cake is being eaten" etc. You have to go there and embrace it before it stops being confusing.
I lived there for over a year and I still only have to lose concentration for a few seconds when watching my drama's before I have a hard time figuring out what they're on about.

Getting 30 hours training and topping it up with a couple of Gibli films every week doesn't cut it. It might be easier in the U.S. where there are Japanese communities, but you will spend a LOT of your time very inefficiently.

I don't mean to discourage you, but Japanese is among the hardest languages to learn
(if you are not Korean, Turkish, Finnish or Hungarian. Their grammatical structure is similar and they tend to omit subject too)
Starchaser
 member, 311 posts
 GMT+0
 Posts Monday-Friday
Tue 20 Aug 2013
at 19:49
Re: Watakushi ni nihongo wo oshiete itadakemasenka
Youre not discouraging me, Pyrate. I have almost a need to learn it now, and whilst I may be a bit of a procrastinator, when I set my mind on something that's it really. ;-)
drobob
 member, 10 posts
Tue 20 Aug 2013
at 20:44
Re: Watakushi ni nihongo wo oshiete itadakemasenka
I've been using Pimsleur speak and understand to help with the learning the basics. So far I think it's been pretty good as it teaches the structure nicely. I've been doing it lightly, so it will take me a while to get it all down (though I never really expect to have it all).

Good luck in the chase for knowledge.
Etheric
 member, 16 posts
 Infinity is appreciated..
 but often underestimated!
Thu 22 Aug 2013
at 00:17
Re: Watakushi ni nihongo wo oshiete itadakemasenka
I know that what's desired is a native speaker, but if anyone were interested in putting together a group of players who are all learning Japanese, that's definitely something I as well would be interested in.  I was a player for a game here intended to help teach Japanese several months ago, but the GM of that game had to pull out due to work obligations.
catcollection
 member, 9 posts
Thu 22 Aug 2013
at 21:11
Re: Watakushi ni nihongo wo oshiete itadakemasenka
ロールプレーで日本語を勉強したら役に立つと思うけど正直、普通のメッセージを読むため、どれほど時間がかかるか考えておいたほうが良いかもしれません。簡単に書いても恐らくかなり苦労すると思います。というと、普段のゲームの流れより、英語のゲームに日本語をドンドン使ってみたらいかがでしょうか?例えば、謎のゲームで、解けるために日本語を使うとか、外国人が日本に来て何かの冒険をする設定で少しずつ日本語を学ぶとか。。。でも、とりあえず、自分なりに頑張ったら良いと思います。RPでやる気が沸いてきたら、まぁ、良いじゃないでしょうか?

Any effort is positive effort! :)
Starchaser
 member, 313 posts
 GMT+0
 Posts Monday-Friday
Sun 25 Aug 2013
at 10:39
Re: Watakushi ni nihongo wo oshiete itadakemasenka
Only just noticed that last post due to bump calming (which is why its better to rmail replies rather than respond to the thread).

Since Ive only just memorised the five Hiragana vowels this may take me some time to translate.

So bear with me...
Starchaser
 member, 636 posts
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Wed 15 May 2019
at 06:06
Re: Watakushi ni nihongo wo oshiete itadakemasenka
I'm ressurecting this in the hope someone might pick up on the idea and be open to discussion on it.

I'm thinking perhaps a group game, long term, starting with Hiragana and moving on to the other kanji, but with perhaps some actual phrases thrown in even if they are in (everybody groans) romaji so people don't get too bored with memorising syllabries all the time.

I can provide help with game design and moderation.
Wynternight
 member, 41 posts
Thu 16 May 2019
at 00:22
Re: Watakushi ni nihongo wo oshiete itadakemasenka
Sore wa subarashī aideadesuga, watashi wa kanji ya katakana o tameshite miru no ni jūbun ni yoku wakarimasen.