RolePlay onLine RPoL Logo

, welcome to Twilight 2000 - The Modern Dark Ages

03:09, 5th May 2024 (GMT+0)

OOC Thread.

Posted by FusilierFor group 0
Fusilier
GM, 11 posts
Your Guide
Tue 29 Apr 2008
at 04:09
  • msg #1

OOC Thread

Hello and welcome. Please use this thread for all out of character posts.

Hello to Jinny. Check your PM.
Helmut Meyer
player, 1 post
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Tue 29 Apr 2008
at 04:13
  • msg #2

Re: OOC Thread

Ah ha!

It works now! Yeah, I can post now. I guess it was the public/group 0 thing. Ok, I'll update the char sheet. I PM'd you personal equipment too.

Jinny
Helmut Meyer
player, 2 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Tue 29 Apr 2008
at 05:01
  • msg #3

Re: OOC Thread

Also...

How many NPCs will there be?
Are you basing the number of vehicles on how many PCs or PCs and NPCs?
Fusilier
GM, 12 posts
Your Guide
Tue 29 Apr 2008
at 06:21
  • msg #4

Re: OOC Thread

I've got a number of them written up. I'll figure out how many will start off with the party once we get an idea of how many PCs we will have.

Hmmm... not sure on the second question yet. Going to have to wait to see what PCs we have first.

Equipment list received.
Fusilier
GM, 13 posts
Your Guide
Tue 29 Apr 2008
at 07:04
  • msg #5

Re: OOC Thread

I've updated the map in the intel thread. It has a hex grid overlay on it. I think this will be easier for places to be indicated and travel plans worked out. I know it contrasts lightly, but I'm working on it.

So, the legend shows the player's current hide at E13.
This message was last edited by the GM at 07:06, Tue 29 Apr 2008.
Helmut Meyer
player, 3 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Tue 29 Apr 2008
at 13:56
  • msg #6

Re: OOC Thread

I really like the hex overlay on the map. If its possible, that would be awesome for tactical maps. In combat you could say exactly where you wanted to go and the route.
Fusilier
GM, 15 posts
Your Guide
Wed 30 Apr 2008
at 02:05
  • msg #7

More players

Ok, two more players joined today. Welcome Mark101 and LAW.

So, as of now we have for PCs...

A German Unteroffizier (Sgt) - Assault pioneer - Helmut Meyer
An American Major - Cav Scout - John Jameson McCarthy
An American? - Medic - Currently Unnamed

I'm waiting for word from two more people as well. I've got a feeling at least one of them will join for sure so I'd like to wait until both get back to me.

In the meantime I will put up a list of available unit equipment and supplies which are available to the party. Determining what you have to start out with will be done OOC here. However, I'd like to reserve the planning and decision making of what course of action the party intends to do for IG discussions. I'll also introduce a list of potential vehicle(s).

Welcome again.
This message was last edited by the GM at 02:10, Wed 30 Apr 2008.
Fusilier
GM, 16 posts
Your Guide
Wed 30 Apr 2008
at 03:34
  • msg #8

Re: More players

Ok, one confirmation on two people I was hoping would join. That just leaves one more to get back to me before I think we can start. That will be 4 and possibly 5 PCs... I think thats ok to start with. Others can join at any time too of course.

In a couple of hours I'll put us the equipment lists so we can start to get everyone involved.
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:35, Wed 30 Apr 2008.
Helmut Meyer
player, 4 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Wed 30 Apr 2008
at 05:26
  • msg #9

Re: More players

Hey, welcome guys.
Fusilier
GM, 17 posts
Your Guide
Wed 30 Apr 2008
at 08:53
  • msg #10

Re: More players

Alright. One more player is in. Welcome KC.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 1 post
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Wed 30 Apr 2008
at 09:21
  • msg #11

Re: More players

Hello all, looking forward to gaming with you.
Character not created yet
player, 1 post
Wed 30 Apr 2008
at 11:20
  • msg #12

Re: More players

Hey, um, KC here ... still putting a PC together.  I have no idea what he's going to be yet ...
Character not created yet
player, 2 posts
Wed 30 Apr 2008
at 11:21
  • [deleted]
  • msg #13

Re: More players

This message was deleted by the player at 11:21, Wed 30 Apr 2008.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 2 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Wed 30 Apr 2008
at 11:27
  • msg #14

Re: More players

That is the best name I've ever heard for a PC, very Clint Eastwood in Sapagetthi Westerns....

Welcome KC.
Fusilier
GM, 18 posts
Your Guide
Wed 30 Apr 2008
at 12:23
  • msg #15

Re: More players

John Jameson McCarthy:
That is the best name I've ever heard for a PC, very Clint Eastwood in Sapagetthi Westerns....

Welcome KC.


LOL yeah, I had it actually as 'No Name' first, but thought right away to ol Clint.
Helmut Meyer
player, 5 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Wed 30 Apr 2008
at 14:53
  • msg #16

Gear

Welcome! Happy to be soon gaming with you guys.

For vehicles and gear, here is my opinion.

I say we go with the 2 vehicle option. It might mean not getting an armored vehicle, but 2 vehicles still is better than one. And we still have a 50/50 chance of getting armor or even two.

For party weapons... I like mortars, 60mm is cheap and small but effective. If we don't get a AFV like a Bradley or BMP, we may want to get an ATGW or something. Lots of Pact armor around. Maybe mount a machinegun on the other vehicle.

I don't mind what models exactly.

Other stuff... a still and a trailer are a must, yes?
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 3 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Wed 30 Apr 2008
at 17:54
  • msg #17

Re: Gear

In games I've played in I've found the Mk-19 grenade launcher kicks serious butt. We need one if we can get it.

As for vehicles, I'm happy to go with two tries, trailers are a definate and I'd suggest buying some motorcycles or an ATV for scouting woods with little fuel consumption.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:14, Wed 30 Apr 2008.
Fusilier
GM, 22 posts
Your Guide
Wed 30 Apr 2008
at 18:15
  • msg #18

Re: Gear

John Jameson McCarthy:
In games I've played in I've found the Mk-19 grenade launcher kicks serious butt. We need one if we can get it.

As for vehicles, I'm happy to go with two tries, trailers are a definate and I'd suggest buying some motorcycles or an ATV for scouting woods with little fuel consumption.


Sorry, no autogrenade launchers available at the moment, nor ATVs. One motorcycle is (now) available as well as many bicycles.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:17, Wed 30 Apr 2008.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 4 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Wed 30 Apr 2008
at 18:40
  • msg #19

Re: Gear

Damn. I wish I'd checked the new post before I typed :)
Character not created yet
player, 3 posts
Thu 1 May 2008
at 02:55
  • msg #20

Re: Gear

KC again.  PC still to come.

I'd prefer to take the bradley or marder and not roll for two vehicles.  Then even though some of us may be on foot or riding on the vehicle to start, we can use our first encounter to get to know each other, get some experience under battle conditions, and try and steal a second vehicle of any kind.

That way we'd get our second vehicle and have some fun doing it, give the players and ref a chance to see and get the game working.

I'll go with the popular vote though.
Fusilier
GM, 23 posts
Your Guide
Thu 1 May 2008
at 04:09
  • msg #21

Players

Ok, two more have signed up and I have one confirmed who wants to join in three weeks. Welcome to Yourspleen and Firebringer.

That puts us at 6 PCs (to be 7) and a couple NPCs. I think thats a good number to start. I've only a few PCs complete at this point, so if you can send them my way that would be great. I'd like to start heading to gamestart pretty soon.

Complete PCs
Jinny plays - Helmut Meyer, a German assault pioneer
Mark101 plays - John McCarthy, a US Cav scout officer

Incomplete PCs
LAW will be playing a medic (maybe) and is on the way
KC's character is unknown but on its way
Firebringer plays - Jennifer Gideon, a British technical officer
Yourspleen will be playing a British Royal Marine

I'm ready to go with the game details so once I have all the PCs character information submitted and ready we can begin. Lets say if you can't have it submitted in two or three days, please PM me so I can accommodate, thanks.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:26, Thu 01 May 2008.
Helmut Meyer
player, 6 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Thu 1 May 2008
at 05:40
  • msg #22

Re: Gear

Character not created yet:
KC again.  PC still to come.

I'd prefer to take the bradley or marder and not roll for two vehicles.  Then even though some of us may be on foot or riding on the vehicle to start, we can use our first encounter to get to know each other, get some experience under battle conditions, and try and steal a second vehicle of any kind.

That way we'd get our second vehicle and have some fun doing it, give the players and ref a chance to see and get the game working.

I'll go with the popular vote though.


Thats a good suggestion and idea KC. I guess I support either decision now. Welcome to the newest additions to the cast.

McCarthy - 2 Vehicles
KC - 1 Vehicle
Meyer - abstain
Law - ?
Gideon - 1 Vehicle
Ethan - Abstain

Lets get the vote and opinions in soon ok? I'm excited to get playing.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:23, Thu 01 May 2008.
Character not created yet (KC)
player, 4 posts
Thu 1 May 2008
at 07:43
  • msg #23

Re: Gear

As far as the other equipment goes, i'm happy not to have any input to it.  Anything more than a personal weapon will be a bonus :-)

And i'd rather get to game start than be arguing over the merits of one weapon system over another, so i am happy for others who feel strongly on the subject make the decision.

KC (for now)
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 5 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Thu 1 May 2008
at 13:26
  • msg #24

Re: Gear

I always like a film I saw where the guy off True Romance, Christian something, became a freelance cop in San Fransisco. He went into a gunshpo and said, "I'd like a big gun that shoots lots of bullets."

Not really the best I know, but a fun approach.
Ethan Creswick
player, 1 post
HM Royal Marines
Thu 1 May 2008
at 13:35
  • msg #25

Re: Gear

Hi everyone, nice to see you all.  I'll be your Royal Marine for this leg of the trip, at least until we find the Pond and I can get back to the island. ;)

Looking forward to the entertainment. :)
Helmut Meyer
player, 7 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Thu 1 May 2008
at 14:55
  • msg #26

Re: Gear

Character not created yet (KC):
Anything more than a personal weapon will be a bonus :-)


My kind of player.

Character not created yet (KC):
And I'd rather get to game start than be arguing over the merits of one weapon system over another, so i am happy for others who feel strongly on the subject make the decision.


Sounds good to me. The GM sill needs to get all the characters in first though I think, so we can tally up how much we have to spend (I'm assuming). Once thats done, I'm happy to leave the decisions up to other people too. Besides there are always more stuff to steal or capture if you feel we started off with something missing.
Jennifer Gideon
player, 1 post
Thu 1 May 2008
at 17:52
  • msg #27

Re: Gear

I'd prefer going for the certainty of armour rather than risking us getting none. I figure if we have armour it will be easier to acquire general vehicles than use general vehicles to acquire armour :)
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 6 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Thu 1 May 2008
at 18:01
  • msg #28

Re: Gear

I see what you mean, and you have a good point, but 8 people in any form of available armour is really, really cramped. Not much room for stuff then. Still, as you say, we might not be cramped for long...
This message was last edited by the player at 18:01, Thu 01 May 2008.
Fusilier
GM, 24 posts
Your Guide
Thu 1 May 2008
at 18:12
  • msg #29

Re: Gear

John Jameson McCarthy:
I see what you mean, and you have a good point, but 8 people in any form of available armour is really, really cramped. Not much room for stuff then. Still, as you say, we might not be cramped for long...


If you want to go along with this I will roll up a vehicle right away since it will be the majority of what people will want. You can then start figuring out what support weapons you may wish to supplement the vehicles weapons.

Or you can wait and see what Creswick and LAW's PC would like.
Ethan Creswick
player, 2 posts
HM Royal Marines
Thu 1 May 2008
at 18:16
  • msg #30

Re: Gear

I am not too picky one way or the other.  I'm more excited for when we jack someone's boat, then I will be all useful, until then, I'll just be laying down lots of cover fire with the M249. ;)
Tom P. Kelly
player, 1 post
Thu 1 May 2008
at 22:11
  • msg #31

Re: Gear

we should go light with good gas milage. pair of hummers or something.
Jennifer Gideon
player, 2 posts
Thu 1 May 2008
at 22:34
  • msg #32

Re: Gear

I guess we could always 'requisition' a couple of 4 x 4 pick up trucks.

In passing has anyone got mechanical skills?
Ethan Creswick
player, 3 posts
HM Royal Marines
Thu 1 May 2008
at 23:56
  • msg #33

Re: Gear

A large truck and a LAV would be best, but I doubt we'd keep that up for long.
Character not created yet (KC)
player, 5 posts
Fri 2 May 2008
at 02:48
  • msg #34

Re: Gear

I'd be happy to go with an armoured vehicle, and go hard and fast until it stopped (or gets stopped!), then go low and slow on the evasiveness by foot.

My PC submitted to Ref just now is a driver/mechanic/foot soldier.  My PC name will be "stone".
Helmut Meyer
player, 8 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Fri 2 May 2008
at 05:03
  • msg #35

Re: Gear

Remember fellas, we can't choose specific vehicles. We have only 2 options.

1)  Do a random roll for 2 vehicles - of which there are 10 possibilities (5 soft skin and 5 armoured)

2)  Do a random roll for 1 vehicle - of which there are 5 possibilities (all armoured)

The second option means no matter what we get armour. But there is still a chance that 1 or even both vehicles may be armoured with the first option. It all comes down to what kind of risk do we want to take.
Fusilier
GM, 25 posts
Your Guide
Fri 2 May 2008
at 05:29
  • msg #36

Re: Gear

Helmut Meyer:
Remember fellas, we can't choose specific vehicles. We have only 2 options.


Yes, thats correct.

Ok, just to update you on our status. I'm worried people might lose interest if the game doesn't seem like its going anywhere. This is where we are at...

Need to do -
Pick what you want to do for the vehicle options...
Complete your PCs personal inventory (Creswick and Kelly - as well as skills and details)...
Decide on what party equipment/supplies to "purchase" with the remaining pooled money...
Finish off the PCs (portraits, descriptions, etc)
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:32, Fri 02 May 2008.
Helmut Meyer
player, 9 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Fri 2 May 2008
at 07:24
  • msg #37

Re: Gear

No interest lost here. I submitted a portrait to rpol... once its uploaded I'll be set.
Stone
player, 6 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Fri 2 May 2008
at 10:18
  • msg #38

Re: Gear

Well, to start the discussion on equipment.

I think we should take the M60 MMG or as many of the HMGs that we can afford.  Portable firepower, for when lead down range is important, and if we end up on foot we can hump them.

If we have money left over we could take the M72 LAW because its cheap and provides handy AT capability.

Anything else i think will be too big.  Mortars are ok but not real good on teh defensive, when normally by the time we know we are under attack the enemy is likely inside their minimum range anyway.

But i know everyone will have their views.  I'm certainly not set on mine, i just think MMG/HMGs are the most versative thing we can buy.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 7 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Fri 2 May 2008
at 15:22
  • msg #39

Re: Gear

It'll depend on how much the GM gives us of our spending allocation, we should be able to affrod everything on the list and some, my character for instance technically has $21,110 left to spend, now unless we're buying the $75,000 machine shop, he can buy most stuff and use lesser amounts for ammo etc, all pooled of course, I'm not claiming ownership here.

Depending on what the GM wants for us at the start however, we might not have that much.
Jennifer Gideon
player, 3 posts
Royal Engineers
"Blue wire Red wire hmm!"
Fri 2 May 2008
at 16:06
  • msg #40

Re: Gear

I'll have probably about $14,000 spare. Jennifer is a Royal Engineer Captain, seconded to first DERA then DARPA. Background is that she's in evaluation of new equipment etc.

Training is largely in metallurgy, construction and of course combat engineering. Smelt it, build it, break it basically.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 8 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Fri 2 May 2008
at 16:19
  • msg #41

Re: Gear

Excellent, with that sort of cash we can round out stuff with a trailer and plenty of ammo and some other kit.

We also have a nice set of skills coming, we might be able to help rebuild civilisation as opposed to driving around blowing it up. Anyone with language skills?
Stone
player, 7 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Fri 2 May 2008
at 20:57
  • msg #42

Re: Gear

John Jameson McCarthy:
. Anyone with language skills?


Simple-ton german.
Fusilier
GM, 26 posts
Your Guide
Sat 3 May 2008
at 06:41
  • msg #43

Re: Gear

I have almost everyone's personal gear submitted. Once its done I'll post the amount automatically. I do modify the amount of money though - not to screw you out of gear or make things difficult. I don't get any fun or accomplishment out of making life hard for the PCs, but I do think the money by way of the game is a little too high.

As for skills, I am pretty happy with this party's layout. There seems to be a very very wide range of skills - many I usually don't get to see in other games.

Offhand you have 1-2 drivers, a medic, a technical trades specicialist, assault pioneer type and a couple other random fellas.

I'm still waiting for one or two people to mention if they would like 1 or 2 vehicles. To keep the game from stalling, I will resort to taking the majority decision soon regardless alright? If its a tie I'll just roll the dice to break it. I know a lot of you don't really mind either way, but I still like to have the player's input.

Thanks for your guy's interest and patience.
Fusilier
GM, 27 posts
Your Guide
Sun 4 May 2008
at 08:30
  • msg #44

Re: Gear

I'll roll up the vehicle tomorrow and add your pooled amount. I anticipate game start on Wednesday/Thursday.
Jennifer Gideon
player, 4 posts
Royal Engineers
"Blue wire Red wire hmm!"
Sun 4 May 2008
at 13:50
  • msg #45

Re: Gear

I'm going to be away for a couple of days at the start of next week. GM knows details. Might be able to post but doubtful.

I've not played much T2K, and am not intimately acquainted with the rules. Following is an expression of thought rather than vote or the like. Some of it might be stating the obvious and some obvious statements  of ignorance. This I'll blame on the fact that Jennifer is a 'Travelling Scholar' rather than 'Barbarian Warrior'.

Any event equipment wise I'd favour:-

Explosives- Jennifer can improvise claymores if we get the bits rather than buying them. Potentially also IED's. You can't go far wrong with explosives in RPG's and if you do then usually your not around to deal with the consequences afterwards :)

Should we consider standardising our ammo?

I'd favour equipment over big guns and fewer guns and more ammo over lots of guns.

Anyway I'll go with what folks want and am happy to throw Jennifer's cash into the pool for folks to spend.

I see from quick perusal of another game a Quarter Master might be an idea to keep track of the gear. Any volunteers?
Helmut Meyer
player, 10 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sun 4 May 2008
at 15:57
  • msg #46

Re: Gear

Jennifer Gideon:
Explosives- Jennifer can improvise claymores if we get the bits rather than buying them. Potentially also IED's. You can't go far wrong with explosives in RPG's and if you do then usually your not around to deal with the consequences afterwards :)

Should we consider standardising our ammo?

I'd favour equipment over big guns and fewer guns and more ammo over lots of guns.

Anyway I'll go with what folks want and am happy to throw Jennifer's cash into the pool for folks to spend.

I see from quick perusal of another game a Quarter Master might be an idea to keep track of the gear. Any volunteers?


For ammo - I think its too late as I believe everyone has completed their personal gear portion of character generation. I chose a PACT rifle as being behind enemy lines so to speak, my resupply will be from my enemies (as there is nobody else). Its a good point though, and perhaps we'll have to keep it in mind as we go (collecting PACT weapons to arm those with NATO rifles or something).

You second point is good too I think. The weight of ammo far exceeds that of weapons. By that I mean a soldier can carry one rifle and a crapload of rounds, or he can lug around three or four weapons and little ammo as a result. Same goes for vehicles on a larger scale I would believe. From how I read the GM's post (I may be wrong here) it seems we are going to be rolling for one vehicle (armored). That means its probably already going to be equipped with at the least a machine gun right? If we are lucky and its a Bradley we also got the anti-armour (TOW and autocannon) covered. That said, I'd mention the mortar again - but won't get upset if you all are not in agreement.

Your last point was previously asked. The GM is going to handle party equipment and supplies. We have to keep track of our personal ammo only... he will do food, fuel, and ammunition (for the vehicles and heavy support weapons). It will all be listed in 'Vehicles and Party Stores' thread.

-------------

Meyer is all ready to go. I don't have a portrait yet as I am still waiting for it to be uploaded by the rpol people. I submitted one two days ago.

John Jameson McCarthy:
Anyone with language skills?


Fluent German and some Czech.
Tom P. Kelly
player, 2 posts
MEDIC
SPEC 4
Mon 5 May 2008
at 02:13
  • msg #47

Leave

will be in the field until friday.
Fusilier
GM, 28 posts
Your Guide
Mon 5 May 2008
at 11:54
  • msg #48

Vehicles & Party Stores

Ok... vehicle selected. Going by how I thought most players felt, the party went for a single vehicle (guaranteed to be armored). They rolled up some good and bad luck (see die roller).

Good news - you have an M2A2 Bradley AIFV.
Bad news - its severely worn. Wear value 10 (engine).
I went random for the starting allotment of ammunition for its weapons, and the vehicle has - TOW ATGM x3 and full capacity 25mm.

As mentioned each vehicle also comes equipped with (in this case) -
Excavating Tools
Tracked Vehicle Tool Set
Spare Length of Track
AN/VRC-12 13km Vehicle Radio
4 Man Tent x1
Full Tank of Methanol Fuel
20L Jerry Cans (Full of Methanol Fuel) 2x
Box MRE (10 each) x2

There is the possibility of another player joining before game start. If that happens I'll roll up a second vehicle. I should know in a day or two.

Pooled money comes to - 36,000 (modified and rounded)
Last thing we need to do is spend that money. Keep in mind the load restrictions of the Bradley (including its passengers). I'll post the confirmation of the other player as soon as I know - then if that happens I'll roll up a 2nd vehicle.

Get spending!
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:34, Mon 05 May 2008.
Fusilier
GM, 29 posts
Your Guide
Mon 5 May 2008
at 12:09
  • msg #49

Bradely seating

Oh, I almost forgot. Who is crewing this beast? I need a driver, gunner, and crew commander. The rest go as passengers/dismounts.

Stone mentioned he'd like to be a driver (and there is a suitable NPC as backup). I'll leave it up to you guys of course.
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:09, Mon 05 May 2008.
Fusilier
GM, 30 posts
Your Guide
Mon 5 May 2008
at 12:33
  • msg #50

Re: Bradely seating

Ahh... thats quicker than I expected. Please welcome Legbreaker who will be playing Ben Jagelis, a Canadian infantry officer.

Due to our numbers (and Raellus who will be joining in 2 weeks when school is out) I'll add another vehicle so some of you are not forced to sit on the gun barrel or something.

Edit - I am starting not to trust the die roller.

Ok - Second vehicle is an M113 APC.
Wear Value is 6.
Armament is M2hB at the moment.
Same free starting equipment as the Bradley.
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:15, Mon 05 May 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 1 post
Leutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Mon 5 May 2008
at 13:26
  • msg #51

Re: Bradely seating

If I may suggest....
We have, what, 9 people to accomodate in two vehicles. Now, I don't know the M2 at all besides photos and so on, but the M113 I've spend more time in the back of than I care to remember. I would suggest that the M2 be used as the main troop carrier with the M113 primarily used for cargo transport and additional fire support.
Two crew in the M113 leaves 7 for the M2, three of which are vehicle crew. I believe the M2 has room for 6 infantry and as we'll only have 4 people in the back, they'll have room to spare.

I'm sure we can all agree that before any other equipment is purchased, a still (preferably medium), and storage containers should be obtained. This could potentially be carried on a large trailer behind the M113, with the internal cargo space of two tonnes allocated to some of the more fragile stores (such as spare ammunition).
Helmut Meyer
player, 11 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Mon 5 May 2008
at 13:46
  • msg #52

Re: Bradely seating

Welcome Leg (Jinny here). LOL... I gamed with both Legbreaker and "Ben Jagelis" before.

I agree on your proposal for the layout... the Bradley as the main fighting element with dismounts and the M113 in a more administrative role.

With two armoured vehicles, I'd also recommend the medium still (to be on a trailer hooked to the M113).

Meyer can handle a machine gun, but not tac missile, so I am out on gunning the Bradley. I can't drive track either. I can fight... so that makes me a dismount in the Bradley I guess.

An incomplete summary of items to recommend purchasing would be...

- No additional machineguns (we already have a 7.62 coax on one and a 50cal on the other).

- PACT AT-4 ATGW to backup the TOW for anti-armour
- 1Ton Trailer
- Medium Still
- 10 Kg Plastic Explosives
- 20 1/4kg Dynamite Sticks
- 1 case of Mines (Directional)
- 2 cases of Mines (Anti-Personnel)
- 1 case of Mines (Anti-Tank)
- 4 belts of 25mm Autocannon rounds
- 2 cases of Hand Grenades (HE and WP)
- Heavy Weapons Tools
- 60mm Mortar
- RPG-16
- Small arms ammo
- Jerry Cans
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 9 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Mon 5 May 2008
at 13:48
  • msg #53

Re: Bradely seating

Those are good ideas, but none are available.

I've knocked up a basic list with weights and costs. Feel free to suggest changes however, it isn't written in stone.

Weight  Item                            Cost
10     M60                             $1,500
12     M240 (Bradley Gunner Hatch)     $1,500
42     M2HB (Bradley Comm. Hatch)      $1,800
 8     M72 LAW x 4                       $600
10     RPG-16                          $1,000
 6     RPG Rocket x 6                    $300
700    Small Still                       $500  in trailer
25     72 x 40mmHEDP                     $250
40     32 x WP grenades                  $560
12     6x Claymores                      $800
10     C4x 10kgs                         $300
 6     24 sticks of dynamite             $240
146    Basic tools                     $4,100
       Power tools
       Construction tools
       Small Arms tools
       Heavy Ordanace tools
       Electrical tools
       Electronic tools
       Arc welder
300    Off-road motorcycle              $5,000
84     3x TOW IIA                       $4,500
10     NMT                                $225
22     NHT                                $350
50     5 cases 5.45mmB                    $300
75     5 cases 5.65mmN                    $500
15     1 case 7.62mmN                      $65
72     24 x 100belt x7.62mmN              $260
30     2 cases 9mmP                       $445
40     2 cases .45ACP                     $126
260    20 x 105belted x .50BMG            $700
300    20 x 105belted x .50SLAP         $1,200
30     2 case of shotgun shells           $200
400    4 cases of 25mm API              $2,600
7      NLT                                $200
50     5 cases of 7.62mmS                 $400
150    5 cases of 7.62mmL                 $350
30     2 cases of 9mmM                    $400
150    10 x bicycles                    $1,000


Total cost: $34,195
Total weight: 3,706kg
After stuff loaded in trailer: 2,706kg
This message was last edited by the player at 15:08, Mon 05 May 2008.
Helmut Meyer
player, 12 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Mon 5 May 2008
at 13:50
  • msg #54

Re: Bradely seating

John Jameson McCarthy:
Those are good ideas, but none are available.


What is not available? I don't follow what you are referring to.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 10 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Mon 5 May 2008
at 13:51
  • msg #55

Re: Bradely seating

Sorry, I was referring to the post above yours, yours came in whilst I was posting. All of your suggestions are valid.
Fusilier
GM, 32 posts
Your Guide
Mon 5 May 2008
at 14:00
  • msg #56

Re: Bradely seating

JJ - 1 Ton Trailer (and 1000L) are available.

You don't need to request a demo kit - already present (but you do need to buy the explosives).
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 11 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Mon 5 May 2008
at 15:07
  • msg #57

Re: Bradely seating

OK, I'll delete the Demmo kit, that gives us $750 to spend elsewhere. Any ideas?

In my list, I prioritised machine guns because that had been the apparent preference at the time. If the preference has swung over to a mortar, I have no objections to changing things.

As for crew positions, my character would make sense for the Commander's spot in the Bradley, but I don't mind if someone else wants it.
Helmut Meyer
player, 13 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Mon 5 May 2008
at 15:27
  • msg #58

Re: Bradely seating

<Chanting>... mortar... mortar... mortar.

Ok ok seriously now. I'd like the 60mm mortar, but won't mind if you all think its best for machineguns to be priority. I just think having something that could hit the enemy and them not really knowing from where is a good idea to me.

I don't think we will get much resistance from anyone here on the non-weapons stuff. I think we are all together in thinking we should buy pretty much everything on the list (I think we have enough money).

The only debate it seems us what support weapons we want. I see you bought the TOW reloads that came with the dismounted launcher - good thinking. You need to add a still though, and a trailer unless you want to stick it in the back of the M113.

I support McCarthy as a Bradley Commander... his portrait was a big enough hint LOL.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 12 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Mon 5 May 2008
at 15:38
  • msg #59

Re: Bradely seating

Yup, the still and trailer are in there as is the tanker trailer, trading for fuel, or siphoning it from enemy vehicles will be a big priority as we can produce a whole 5 litres a day for ourselves.
Stone
player, 8 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Mon 5 May 2008
at 21:29
  • msg #60

Re: Bradely seating

Just for good order.  I agree with your guys suggestions.

Stone is happy to drive either vehicle.  He can drive tracked.
Ben Jagelis
player, 2 posts
Leutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Tue 6 May 2008
at 00:48
  • msg #61

Re: Bradley seating

Ben can handle any position although he's more suited to infantry roles. Also as an officer, he's much less likely to be vehicle crew other than vehicle commander.

So, what we need to know, probably more than anything else, is who else besides Ben and Stone has Tracked Vehicle skill?

As for support weapons, I can see the value in a mortar, but are we really a big enough unit to be able to utilise it? I doubt that the vehicles will ever have less than one person each with it, if only for security, which leaves seven on the ground at most. Take out another two (I think three is the usual crew for a 60mm mortar though) and we're left with only 5 on the ground at most.

In the more likely event that the vehicles would be participating in combat (they're a massive force multiplier) and we're left with just two people on the ground if the mortar is in use.

I would suggest that hand held grenade launchers, machineguns and short range rocket/missile launchers such as M72 LAWs and RPG-7s are a better option - they certainly have a better first round accuracy and hitting power than a 60mm mortar round (the second two anyway).
This message was last edited by the player at 00:50, Tue 06 May 2008.
Fusilier
GM, 34 posts
Your Guide
Tue 6 May 2008
at 01:11
  • msg #62

Re: Bradley seating

Ben Jagelis:
So, what we need to know, probably more than anything else, is who else besides Ben and Stone has Tracked Vehicle skill?


NPC Henry Jordan is the only one I know offhand. He's highly skilled.
Helmut Meyer
player, 14 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Tue 6 May 2008
at 01:22
  • msg #63

Re: Bradley seating

Alright... no mortar. I'll go with the list McCarthy has here.

Can we fit 10 bicycles though? I know they are light, but they are kind of bulky to add onto everything else. I mean, it can fit... but really we aren't packing it all in there like a moving van. It'd have to be loaded so someone could easily get at everything without moving too much. I guess they could be put in the furthest, but its still kinda bulky.

The motorcycle. Is that going in too? Or is someone riding along during movements.
Fusilier
GM, 35 posts
Your Guide
Tue 6 May 2008
at 07:01
  • msg #64

Puchase

I'll accept this as the party's request. If there is anyone who would like to speak out against anything I will allow until game-start to make changes.


M60 MMG
M240 (Bradley Gunner Hatch)
M2HB (Bradley Comm. Hatch)
M72 LAW x 4
RPG-16
RPG Rocket x 6
Small Still
40mmHEDP  x 72
WP grenades x 32
Claymores x 6
C4 x 10kgs
Dynamite  x 24 1/4 kilo sticks
Basic tools
Power tools
Construction tools
Small Arms tools
Heavy Ordanace tools
Electrical tools
Electronic tools
Arc welder
Off-road motorcycle
TOW IIA reloads x 3
NLT
NMT
NHT
5 cases 5.45mmB
5 cases 5.65mmN
1 case 7.62mmN
24 x 100belt x7.62mmN
2 cases 9mmP
2 cases .45ACP
20 x 105belted x .50BMG
20 x 105belted x .50SLAP
2 case of shotgun shells
4 cases of 25mm API
5 cases of 7.62mmS
5 cases of 7.62mmL
2 cases of 9mmM
10 x bicycles

Throw in the Engineer's demolition kit, a hatchet and an axe.

Each vehicle also gets (So a total of twice this for the entire party)...
Excavating Tools
Tracked Vehicle Tool Set
Spare Length of Track
AN/VRC-12 13km Vehicle Radio
4 Man Tent
Full Tank of Methanol Fuel
2x 20L Jerry Cans (Full of Methanol Fuel)
2x Box MRE (10 each)

I'll take the leftover pooled money and transfer it to miscellaneous trade goods.

Tell me where it is going -- M113 inside / M113 outside / Bradley inside / Bradley outside / trailer
This message was last edited by the GM at 07:03, Tue 06 May 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 3 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Tue 6 May 2008
at 11:15
  • msg #65

Re: Puchase

This is part of a list I compiled for a previous game.
Item                          Units
Misc	
Duct Tape                        3
Barbed Wire, Concertina, metre  30
Barbed Wire (Straight), metre  200
Bucket, Metal                    1
Cord, 15M                        5
Jerry can, 20L                   5
Rope, 11mm milspec, 50m          2
Snorkel Gear                     2
Wetsuit                          2
Tarp, 2x3m                       1
Grapple                          1
Sandbags                        50

Medical
Field Medical Assortment #2      1
Blood, whole                     4

Tools
Battery Charger                  1
Bolt Cutters                     1

Fuel
Ethanol                        520
FLEXCEL Liquid Container, 250 litres   2
Medium Still                     1

Food
Domestic food                  200
Water purification Kit           1
Can Opener                       1
Mounted Water Ration Heater      2

Ammo/Weapons
M18A1 Claymore, case, 6          2
40mm HEDP, case, 75              1
M2 Carl Gustav                   1
FFV-551 HEAT, 84mm               8
FFV-545 ILLUM, 84mm              4

Refrigerator, small              1
Freezer, small                   1
1.5 Kilowatt generator           1

GKB-816 (Russian 3 tonne trailer)

I'd like to add a fair portion of the above to the list, and add about a truckload more explosives.
If we get a trailer of a decent size, we can carry the still and extra fuel on it, and the remainder should fit reasonably comfortably within the M113. The M2 would only be required to carry a couple of cases of small arms rounds (reloads for personal weapons), any extra ammo for the 25mm and TOW, and emergency supplies of extra fuel, food, and medical supplies.

Externally carried would be barbed wire, excavating tools, and anything else that a) won't be effected by weather, and b) won't impede the free rotation of the vehicle turret.

I'm not convinced there is a need for bicycles, and even the motorcycle could be removed from the list if space and cash are short.

The small still as listed is completely inefficient and nowhere near sufficent for the needs of even one tracked vehicle, let alone two. We need at least one medium still, even if it requires dismantling every time we move.
Stone
player, 9 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Tue 6 May 2008
at 11:27
  • msg #66

Re: Puchase

(message to self: i think we're pretty well equiped!!!)
Ben Jagelis
player, 4 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Tue 6 May 2008
at 11:41
  • msg #67

Re: Puchase

T2K games usually are heavy on equipment. You get a couple of older characters in the group and suddenly you find yourself with enough funds to buy AFVs!
My experience has usually been trying to find something to spend the cash on.

In my own (sadly neglected) game, I had the characters begin as POWs. Absolutely everything they have has been stolen, scrounged, fabricated or salvaged. Life is a constant struggle of hand to mouth with rarely ever anything beyond the clothes on their backs, the single weapon in their hands (one character only has a pistol), and maybe a couple of days food.
Fusilier
GM, 36 posts
Your Guide
Tue 6 May 2008
at 11:48
  • msg #68

Re: Puchase

Of the second list, I think most of the items can be made available for purchase. Minus the following please...

Field Medical Assortment #2
Blood, whole
Domestic food
M2 Carl Gustav
FFV-551 HEAT, 84mm
FFV-545 ILLUM, 84mm
Refrigerator, small
Freezer, small

The claymores and 40mm are already covered.

So you have a little left over to spend on the following...

Duct Tape
Barbed Wire, Concertina, metre
Barbed Wire (Straight), metre
Bucket, Metal
Cord, 15M
Jerry can, 20L
Rope, 11mm milspec, 50m
Snorkel Gear
Wetsuit
Tarp, 2x3m
Grapple
Sandbags
Battery Charger
Bolt Cutters
Ethanol
FLEXCEL Liquid Container, 250L
Water purification Kit
Can Opener
Mounted Water Ration Heater
1.5 Kilowatt generator
Helmut Meyer
player, 15 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Tue 6 May 2008
at 11:56
  • msg #69

Re: Puchase

Ben Jagelis:
Absolutely everything they have has been stolen, scrounged, fabricated or salvaged. Life is a constant struggle of hand to mouth with rarely ever anything beyond the clothes on their backs, the single weapon in their hands (one character only has a pistol), and maybe a couple of days food.


In our case it just may be the exact opposite. Start off all well and equipped and have a single tank round ruin the whole show. I'm pretty happy with our starting gear - its alot... but after the first day anything can happen I guess.

We have about 1900$... I say might as well spend it on stuff from Ben's list addition.
Ben Jagelis
player, 5 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Tue 6 May 2008
at 12:04
  • msg #70

Re: Puchase

Had that happen once too. A landrover pulling a trailer loaded with stores hit from behind by a 125mm tank round. Trailer (mainly loaded with fuel and ammo) went up in a fireball while the three characters aboard the rover dove over the side of the bridge they were crossing at the time into the water a few dozen metres below.
I don't recall if they even realised they'd be going straight to the bottom with the heavy webbing and personal weapons they had on them at the time.
Stone
player, 10 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Tue 6 May 2008
at 12:09
  • msg #71

Re: Puchase

yeah, my T2K experience has always been PCs get too much money via the creation rules, so refs normally ad lib it a bit and you get allot less.  So starting off with so much is a bit different for me.  Certainly not complaining though!

The more we have, the bigger our guns, i am sure the encounters will be scaled up a bit more now as well :-(
Fusilier
GM, 37 posts
Your Guide
Tue 6 May 2008
at 13:01
  • msg #72

Re: Puchase

Stone:
The more we have, the bigger our guns, i am sure the encounters will be scaled up a bit more now as well :-(


Absolutely. Its never fun for long without a challenge to the players. I mean, we play a game which classically starts behind enemy lines in WW3... you can't start off at the top of the food chain. I won't make it a personal mission to unfairly screw the PCs over though but you'll have to be careful.

I took a few things out of the list for various reasons, but don't think its unreasonable to allow what is offered/wanted. Just keep that battered Bradley from keeling over.

Where we are at - Everyone's PC I believe is ready to go (Meyer's portrait is on the way from the rpol people). I think party equipment purchase is working itself out. And after that, I'd just like a listing as to where it is located, as per one of the previous posts.

A couple people (Kelly and Gideon) have PM'd me that they are away until the weekend or so (thats ok  - it'll happen). If everyone will hold on just a little longer that would be great. I'd like to put first post up with everyone on the same page and happy with the starting situation. I'm very happy with the level of interest you guys show and I am glad things are slowly working out.
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:03, Tue 06 May 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 6 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Tue 6 May 2008
at 13:55
  • msg #73

Re: Puchase

So who's in what position?
I think we've agreed Major McCarthy is M2 commander and Ben will put his hand up for M113 commander/gunner.
I'd suggest Stone take the M2 drivers position with Jordan as M113 driver.
This leaves only the M2 gunners position which I believe anyone with Autogun at a reasonable level can adequately manage. I doubt that the TOW will be required all that often so skill with that system isn't as high a priority.
The remainder I suggest should ride in the M2 both because it's got better armour and because the M113 will probably be stuffed with stores and pulling a trailer (which prevents use of the drop ramp but not the door built into the ramp).

Can we have a gunshield for the M113 commanders position? It's extremely exposed without one and although I'd prefer a cupola, a gunshield will suffice.

Always amazes me that the designers didn't incorporate one into the original model. Did they truely believe the commander was bulletproof or that nobody would think to fire at the person with the heavy machinegun? :S
Helmut Meyer
player, 16 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Tue 6 May 2008
at 14:20
  • msg #74

Re: Puchase

Ben Jagelis:
I think we've agreed Major McCarthy is M2 commander and Ben will put his hand up for M113 commander/gunner.


I'm ok with that. Don't want dismounts' leader?

I have some autogun (no tac missile), but sort of prefer to be a dismount at the moment. I'll go as last resort.

Are we going with the bicycles? McCarthy do you want them badly?
What size still are we choosing, small or medium?

Tentative seating...

M2 Cmdr - McCarthy
M2 Drve - Stone
M2 Gnnr - Meyer

M2 Dsmt - Kelly
M2 Dsmt - Gideon
M2 Dsmt - Boswell
M2 Dsmt - Open
M2 Dsmt - Open
M2 Dsmt - Open

M113 Cmdr - Jagelis
M113 Drvr - Jordan

What is Creswick's situation? Haven't heard from him much or in a while. Is he still playing?
This message was last edited by the player at 12:24, Thu 08 May 2008.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 13 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Tue 6 May 2008
at 16:47
  • msg #75

Re: Puchase

I have no problem dropping anything, they'd be good for trade or scouting the woods but if you don't want us to set up as peddlers, I have no objections.
Jennifer Gideon
player, 5 posts
Royal Engineers
"Blue wire Red wire hmm!"
Tue 6 May 2008
at 22:34
  • msg #76

Re: Puchase

I'd like more explosives, caps and demolition gear as part of the party gear.
Ben Jagelis
player, 7 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Wed 7 May 2008
at 01:15
  • msg #77

Re: Puchase

I'm just as happy to act as infantry commander as M113 commander if somebody else wants the M113 job.

With regard to the bicycles, how about we drop them in favour of more explosives?

Oh, and did I mention we should be carrying more explosives?   ;)


My RPOL bio:
"If it moves, shoot it."
"If not, use explosives"

:D
Fusilier
GM, 38 posts
Your Guide
Wed 7 May 2008
at 01:40
  • msg #78

Re: Puchase

Jennifer Gideon:
I'd like more explosives, caps and demolition gear as part of the party gear.


Its maxed out at the moment - One complete demolition kit, 10 x 1kg C4 blocks, and 24 x 1/4kg dynamite sticks.

Helmut Meyer:
What is Creswick's situation? Haven't heard from him much or in a while. Is he still playing?


I'm waiting on a PM from him at the moment. If there is nothing heard I will slip an NPC into that spot, at least until its filled with a PC (there is another player who will be joining in about 2 weeks when school is out).

Ben Jagelis:
Can we have a gunshield for the M113 commanders position?


Ok on the gunshield. I've seen a lot without where I come from. I think its more dependent on how they are intended to be used... but I think you are right too. Gunshield is there for the commander.
Ben Jagelis
player, 8 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Wed 7 May 2008
at 01:59
  • msg #79

Re: Puchase

Don't forget Engineers are issued with a demolitions kit in their basic issue...

Oh, and if we can't have more explosives, how about a hundred kilos of toilet cleaner and a 10kg bag of aluminium dust (commonly used in silver paint)?
A couple of dozen more reels of barbed wire would be nice too (they make GREAT fragmentation bombs when packed with explosives).

I'd ask for a large supply of polyuerathane too, but as gasoline is a bit on the rare side, I think we'll have to do without the homemade napalm....  :(
Ben Jagelis
player, 9 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Wed 7 May 2008
at 02:07
  • msg #80

Re: Puchase

Whoops, forgot to add a hundred metres or so of cotton cord and rope - same stuff as is commonly found in old style wooden sash windows.
Makes decent slow fuse when treated with charcoal and a couple of other common odds and ends.
Fusilier
GM, 39 posts
Your Guide
Wed 7 May 2008
at 02:55
  • msg #81

Re: Puchase

Ben Jagelis:
Whoops, forgot to add a hundred meters or so of cotton cord and rope - same stuff as is commonly found in old style wooden sash windows.
Makes decent slow fuse when treated with charcoal and a couple of other common odds and ends.


Ok. Thats an interesting/good idea. 100 meters.

We do have a couple engineers. After giving it some thought, I'll up the amount of available C4 to 20kgs and 36 X 1/4kg dynamite sticks total. Its not free, but you can purchase it along with what you already did.

Do you want to drop the bicycles?
Ben Jagelis
player, 10 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Wed 7 May 2008
at 03:43
  • msg #82

Re: Puchase

Although they might make good trade goods, we'd probably be better off with far less bulky gold. Ten bicycles will take up a hell of a lot of room, far more than their value would justify.
I vote to ditch them in favour of something else although we could keep one or two for our use.
Helmut Meyer
player, 17 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Wed 7 May 2008
at 03:57
  • msg #83

Re: Puchase

I vote to drop the bicycles. Maybe keep one or two. Use the money to add to the 1900 for the explosives and miscellaneous stuff from the second list that Ben posted.
Ben Jagelis
player, 11 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Wed 7 May 2008
at 05:02
  • msg #84

Re: Puchase

The list I posted might have some duplicates in it. It's more to give ideas than an actual wish list.
Fusilier
GM, 40 posts
Your Guide
Wed 7 May 2008
at 05:39
  • msg #85

Re: Puchase

Vehicle seating updated. You still need a gunner for the Bradley. At this point Meyer is the best option having some autogun. I know you were more interesting in being a dismount, but the availability for a gunner could change early on though. Just let me know alright?
Ben Jagelis
player, 12 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Wed 7 May 2008
at 06:28
  • msg #86

Re: Puchase

They're outranked. They don't have a choice....   ;)
Helmut Meyer
player, 18 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Wed 7 May 2008
at 10:21
  • msg #87

Re: Puchase

Alright... I'll go as the Bradley gunner. If somebody teaches me Tac Missile it will help a lot. I'll go but that doesn't leave us any combat types as dismounts anymore.
Helmut Meyer
player, 19 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Wed 7 May 2008
at 10:55
  • msg #88

Inventory

Fusilier:
Tell me where it is going -- M113 inside / M113 outside / Bradley inside / Bradley outside / trailer


I'll get this topic started I guess, I added the things from Ben's 2nd list assuming we were taking what we could. I don't think price is as much of an issue as most of it is cheap random stuff. Omitting the bikes also gives more spending money back. I have no idea where you guys wanted the motorcycle. I could have put more stuff in the trailer but don't know how big a small still is (not the weight but its size). I split some of the ammo up in case one vehicle is destroyed, but most is kept in the M113 as its the designated 'hauler'. I didn't add the newly available increase in explosives... we buying it? Anyways what do you think of the loadout?

M240 (Bradley Gunner Hatch)
M2HB (Bradley Comm. Hatch)
TOW IIA reloads x 3 (Bradley Turret)
AN/VRC-12 13km Vehicle Radio (Bradley)
AN/VRC-12 13km Vehicle Radio (M113)

M113 inside
Basic tools
Power tools
Construction tools
Small Arms tools
Heavy Ordanace tools
Electrical tools
Electronic tools
Arc welder
2x Box MRE (10 each)
RPG-16
RPG Rocket x 6
M72 LAW x 2
4 cases of 25mm API
15 x 105belted x .50SLAP
15 x 105belted x .50BMG
12 x 100belt x7.62mmN
2 cases of 9mmM
2 cases of 9mmP
4 cases 5.45mmB
4 cases 5.65mmN
4 cases of 7.62mmS
4 cases of 7.62mmL
2 cases .45ACP
2 case of shotgun shells
C4 x 10kgs
Dynamite x 24 1/4 kilo sticks
Engineer's Demolition Kit
WP grenades x 16
40mmHEDP  x 72
Duct Tape
Bucket, Metal
Cord, 15M
Jerry can, 20L
Rope, 11mm milspec, 50m
Snorkel Gear
Wetsuit
Grapple
Sandbags
Battery Charger
Bolt Cutters
FLEXCEL Liquid Container, 250L
Water purification Kit
Can Opener
1.5 Kilowatt generator

M113 outside
Excavating Tools
Tracked Vehicle Tool Set
4 Man Tent
Spare Length of Track
2x 20L Jerry Cans (Full of Methanol Fuel)
Hatchet & Axe
Barbed Wire, Concertina, 100m
Barbed Wire (Straight), 15m
Tarp, 2x3m
NMT
NHT
NLT

Bradley inside
2x Box MRE (10 each)
M72 LAW x 4
M60 MMG
5 x 105belted x .50SLAP
5 x 105belted x .50BMG
12 x 100belt x7.62mmN
1 cases 5.45mmB
1 cases 5.65mmN
1 cases of 7.62mmS
1 cases of 7.62mmL
1 case 7.62mmN
WP grenades x 16
Claymores x 6

Bradley outside
Excavating Tools
Tracked Vehicle Tool Set
4 Man Tent
Spare Length of Track
2x 20L Jerry Cans (Full of Methanol Fuel)
Barbed Wire, Concertina, 100m
Barbed Wire (Straight), 15m

Trailer
Small Still
This message was last edited by the player at 12:08, Thu 08 May 2008.
Stone
player, 11 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Wed 7 May 2008
at 11:05
  • msg #89

Re: Inventory

(checking in tonight, for good order)

I'm OK with everything.

Brrrmmmmmm Brmmmmmm ... I got me a Bradley :-)
Jennifer Gideon
player, 6 posts
Captain: Royal Engineers
"Blue wire Red wire hmm!"
Wed 7 May 2008
at 11:39
  • msg #90

Re: Puchase

Fusilier:
Ben Jagelis:
Whoops, forgot to add a hundred meters or so of cotton cord and rope - same stuff as is commonly found in old style wooden sash windows.
Makes decent slow fuse when treated with charcoal and a couple of other common odds and ends.


Ok. Thats an interesting/good idea. 100 meters.

We do have a couple engineers. After giving it some thought, I'll up the amount of available C4 to 20kgs and 36 X 1/4kg dynamite sticks total. Its not free, but you can purchase it along with what you already did.

Do you want to drop the bicycles?


The dropped items from my personal gear should free up some more cash as well. The bulk of the gear in fact was deferred. I don't know if you took this into account already. I'm mentioning it since it's a fair bit of cash if it's been overlooked.
Ben Jagelis
player, 13 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Wed 7 May 2008
at 12:46
  • msg #91

Re: Inventory

Helmut Meyer:
Anyways what do you think of the loadout?

I think the following items should be carried in the M2 as that's where they're likely to be needed in a hurry.

4 cases of 25mm API
M60 MMG
Claymores x 6

The 25mm is not likely to take up all that much space (especially since there's so little to actually ba carried there), and the M60 should definately be used by the dismounts in preference to rifles, SMGs, etc.

Claymores can also be thrown like grenades and are quite effective. Back in the 60s, a batch of hand grenades where found to have been issued to Australian soldiers with instantaneous fuses rather than the delay. Naturally all grenades were immediately recalled. Lacking grenades, claymores were used instead until the new supply could be issued. Before attacking a position, the claymores had the detonators installed and 30m cables unwound. 700g of explosives driving 700 1g steel ball bearing do a hell of a lot of damage to the inside of a bunker!

The majority of the 12.7mm ammo should probably be in the M113 though as it is relatively bulky - 10 cases of it certainly are anyway!

I would also like to add a couple of "0"s on to the amount of barbed wire on the list. A reel of single strand barbed wire takes up about 1 cubic foot of space and contains approximately 300 metres. This might seem like a lot, but when used to create defenses, it disappears in a hurry! Also, I'm keen on the idea of "Danet bombs" as described earlier (stuffing the reel full of explosive).

More food, much, much more food would be good too. Fresh, foraged or bought food would do nicely, which would allow the MREs to be left for emergencies.

Medical supplies (as much as we can find) and a couple of extra radios would also have to top the list of must haves.
Fusilier
GM, 41 posts
Your Guide
Thu 8 May 2008
at 11:03
  • msg #92

Update

I'll wait another day to see if anyone else has any further input or objections to the equipment purchase and where its being stored. If we all seem ok with it - I'll post it as it is and we will move on to the game (finally!). Thanks again for being patient fellas.

Also, we have two new players looking to join. Welcome to branmac and Doji Hoturi.

Doji's PC is US infantry/airborne. And branmac expressed an interest in being a seebee or construction type.


I will allow another roll each of concertina wire and barbed wire (double what you have now) for purchase. Its cheap, but shouldn't be too hard to find lying around in abandoned defensive positions either.

Food is out at the moment, fresh stuff anyways. Eaten during the search for your unit. The team is down to MREs for game start. Same goes for radios and med supplies... what you have now is basically it.

I'm redoing Gideon's money and will add it to what you have.
This message was last edited by the GM at 11:10, Thu 08 May 2008.
Jennifer Gideon
player, 7 posts
Captain: Royal Engineers
"Blue wire Red wire hmm!"
Thu 8 May 2008
at 11:35
  • msg #93

Re: Update

Yeah must admit I forgot about radios'.

I think we should have at  least one each.
Helmut Meyer
player, 20 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Thu 8 May 2008
at 12:04
  • msg #94

Re: Update

Fusilier:
Also, we have two new players looking to join. Welcome to branmac and Doji Hoturi.


Welcome guys.

I moved the M60 and claymores to the Bradley. And most of the .50cal ammo is now in the M113.

Anyone have much experience with 25mm autocannon rounds? Can it really fit in the back of the Bradley with the dismounts and the other gear? Its 400kgs worth.

With the two new players, and Rae (once he is able to join) we will be at max lift capacity. Unless we ride on top.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:26, Thu 08 May 2008.
Doji Hoturi's PC (Not ready yet)
player, 1 post
Staff Sergeant
Infantry (US)
Thu 8 May 2008
at 12:46
  • msg #95

Re: Update

If y'all are okay with it.  I will ride in the M113 with the rear top hatch popped  (located behind the commander's hatch).  Extra eyes looking in places the driver and TC arn't looking is a good thing and effectively the only thing I expose is my head and shoulders (fortunately I have a K-pot and vest).

I have seen the inside of a Bradley and you couldn't pay me to hang out in one with more than 4 people as dismounts.  To be honest, most mechanized infantry squads are a couple men understrength and that is why they get away with a squad (normally 9 men, but functionally 7) per vehicle.

So if someone wants to join me watching out the back of the M113, there is plenty of room to stand on the gear we have stashed in it.  The hatch is about 3'x4'.

Two pennies and all that,

Doji

(Kurt Weiss)
branmac's PC (unfinished)
player, 1 post
?Rank?
?Specialty (Nationality)?
Thu 8 May 2008
at 20:16
  • msg #96

Re: Update

I will second what Doji said. The Bradly is a tight fit for a full load. A pretty good ride but tight.

I was originally thinking of doing something construction engineerish but it looks like we have the tech stuff pretty covered. I may go something more combat oriented instead. At this stage I am pretty flexible, any requests or suggestions?
Jennifer Gideon
player, 8 posts
Captain: Royal Engineers
"Blue wire Red wire hmm!"
Thu 8 May 2008
at 20:32
  • msg #97

Re: Update

What about a sniper or a heavy weapons guy?



Also am I right in thinking that Jennifer as a Captain has second highest rank? All those years of equipment testing won't go to waste :)
Ben Jagelis
player, 14 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Fri 9 May 2008
at 01:21
  • msg #98

Re: Update

Personally I'd like to have the majority of the people in the M2, especially the combat types. The M113 is the support vehicle and will be packed with stores as well as towing a trailer, which will preclude the use of the rear drop ramp unless we want to seriously damage the trailer (that damn ramp is HEAVY! Had to help lift one manually once).

How about you take command of the M113 Jennifer? As a support person, and 2nd highest in rank, you're probably best for it as long as you've semi-decent Observation and Autogun skills. Ben would then move over to take charge of the infantry element (what he's trained for anyway).

Branmac, may I suggest heavy weapons, specifially Autogun and Tac missile? We're a little light on for M2 gunners at the moment.

I do not have any hands on experience with the 25mm round, but looking at the data, a case of 100 rounds, without packing, looks to take up about one cubic foot of space - hardly anything really. Also remember that the majority of AFVs in existance have storage hoppers, bins, etc for extra gear beyond the basic load of ammo. I'm sure that one of our US members here should be able to tell us a bit more one what's where.
Doji Hoturi's PC (Not ready yet)
player, 2 posts
Staff Sergeant
Infantry (US)
Fri 9 May 2008
at 02:14
  • msg #99

Re: Update

First off,

I will be playing Command Sergeant Major Kurt Weiss.  He is a cranky and relatively old, although still pretty hardy, Special Forces guy who isn't afraid to tell it like it is without worrying about your feelings.  He has a pretty broad breadth of skills so he is not really a specialist although he is a pretty darn good shot.

My thoughts,

The M113 may be a support vehicle but its not like it is going to be trailing that far from the primary M2.  Vehicle works in pairs, in a wing man concept, to protect each other.  Granted the M113 is not as hardened as the M2 but you will actually be putting both vehicles at more risk if you keep them too far from each other.  So any dismount in the M113 should be viable assets to the group as a whole.

Yeah, it will be tougher to get out of it.  You will either have to hop out from the top or use the door located on the ramp, as Ben said, you won't be able to drop the ramp of the M113.

I think that CPT Gideon should ride with me in back of the M113.  Keep the Driver and Gunner as is.  We will be additional eyes for the group as a whole because we will literally have a 360 view at that point.  CSM Weiss might be a decent sniper for the team as well as having a touch of Autogun skill if we need more heavy weapons.  He doesn't like carry the heavy stuff anymore, but he knows the importance of having huge amounts of lead heading towards the enemy and will suck it up for the team.  But he will not let the 'young bucks' live it down that an old man is doing a young man's job.

Also, quick point, unless they have started doing some things I have never seen before, which is very possible.  The Bradley does not have weapon systems for the commander and gunner when they are popped.  No M2HB, no M240.  There is a coax M240 in line with the 25mm Bushmaster.

Bear with me.  I am still kind of catching up on this thread and still finishing out the details of my guy.
Doji Hoturi's PC (Not ready yet)
player, 3 posts
Staff Sergeant
Infantry (US)
Fri 9 May 2008
at 02:32
  • msg #100

Re: Update

Also,

Its about 1 cubic foot per 50 25mm Rounds, those things are almost a 9 inches long and almost two inches wide at the base of the casing.  Plus the links and packing for the case itself.
Doji Hoturi's PC (Not ready yet)
player, 4 posts
Staff Sergeant
Infantry (US)
Fri 9 May 2008
at 02:47
  • msg #101

Re: Update

Here is link  to a pic of the M2 Bradley.  It shows how you would normally stack your squad.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/.../ground/m2-specs.htm

As you can see, its pretty tight in there.  So if you start adding stuff beyond the normal combat load you will have to start pushing people out.

Here is a pick of the M113A2/3.  The nice thing with the A3 is the external fuel tanks.  The A3 was USArmy standard by the early 90s.  Certainly the one we have may be a NATO ally's vehicle and an older A2.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/...ground/m113-pics.htm
Ben Jagelis
player, 15 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Fri 9 May 2008
at 03:25
  • msg #102

Re: Update

I tend to agree that the vehicles will be working in pairs, but I'm think the M113 would be moving behind the M2 - standard movement would be in a catapillar fashion, where the M113 catches up to the M2, then halts while the M2 moves on the next bound.
If this is so, it makes a little more sense to have the dismounts in the M2 than M113, as in the case of a contact, which are usually to the front or flank, they will have less distance to travel before being effective with their personal weapons.

Additionally, we REALLY don't want to place the M113 where it's likely to get shot at. Athough technically protected against 7.62mm rounds, they can still penetrate while the M2A2 is rated up to 30mm. If the M113 is hit, the large amount of ammo, explosives and fuel it is carrying both internally and on the trailer behind, could prove catastrophic - but what choice do we have? It's not like we're part of a big unit with long supply train...

In regard to the 25mm, I've researched the topic of M2 loadout, etc and although I'm sure there are bound to be people more qualified than I to comment, it appears that the extra four cases will either have to sit on somebodies lap, under their feet, or go in the M113 after all. The M2 appears to have 300 ready rounds plus another 600 in storage (the same storage areas I refered to previously).

We also really don't want to exhaust the ready supply of ammo as reloading the bins takes a substantial amount of time.
quote:
(d) The BFV can carry onboard 900 rounds of 25-mm ammunition; only 300 can be loaded in the 25-mm ammunition cans. Uploading the weapons system for the 25-mm takes about 15 minutes. All leaders and gunners must be aware of the operational impact of using all of the ammunition in the ammunition cans. As ammunition is fired, 15-round belts can be linked and loaded in the two ammunition cans in just minutes. If all ammunition is used, reloading takes 12 minutes because the new ammunition must be fed directly into the gun. This is difficult to do while the vehicle is moving.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/...fm/7-7j/Appb.htm#top
I highly reccommend everyone read at least this section to familiarise yourselves with the M2 and it's capabilities.

Additionally, and as I've posted previously, we REALLY want to ditch the light trailer in favour of something heavier, and upgrade the still to medium. A small still only produces 5 litres of fuel which is around 2 minutes worth for the M2. At that rate, we'll be stationary about 6 months just to get enough to drive for one four hour period!

If a larger trailer isn't available, then we should still get a medium still (2000kg) and break it down and load it on both vehicles and trailer while moving.
Doji Hoturi's PC (Not ready yet)
player, 5 posts
Staff Sergeant
Infantry (US)
Fri 9 May 2008
at 08:06
  • msg #103

Re: Update

Unless you are talking about game mechanics, which I am assuming you are, the A3 variant is rated against all 7.62 rounds up to and including 7.62AP.  It's .50 cals that tear it up.  (www.globalsecurity.org is my friend, that and having driven in the things for 4 years.)

Bradleys are a significan step up and I am all about them leading out, but there is a significant amount of tunnel vision that occurs if you are buttoned up.

As far as ammo for the Bradley's Main Gun, if we spend more than 300 rounds in any engagment, we deserve to get whatever's coming to us.  We were obviously in the wrong place or chose to fight when we should have run.

And I have no idea what a 2 ton trailer looks like.  In my experience, the only trailers I have ever seen are the standard 1 ton Trailer and the 1000 liter Tank Trailer.  Well, I have also seen the Mobile Kitchen Trailer, but that thing is huge.  If we are in need of a second trailer, we may want to look into buying a third vehicle.

We can get a relatively soft skinned vehicle if we pool our moneys.  I am thinking we would need a 2 1/2 or a 5 ton truck.  Hell, I think I can buy a 5 Ton w/ 1 Ton Trailer straight out, but I would want someone else in it with me on the gun, or driving while I am on the gun.  It has a pintel mount behind the cab for a .50cal or MK19 to be fired by someone in the cargo area.  And it is relatively fuel efficient.  With a 5 ton we could have 2 Medium Stills operating at once, still have 1 ton still available on the truck, plus another trailer with goodies in tow.

As far as splitting our dismounts, I am willing to take my chances on having some of our people in a vehicle further back.  It takes only seconds to maneuver and dump them off if it comes to that.  I think the extra set of eyes are worth it for the entire team.  And we probably shouldn't carry all our eggs in one basket, either.
Jennifer Gideon
player, 9 posts
Captain: Royal Engineers
"Blue wire Red wire hmm!"
Fri 9 May 2008
at 09:34
  • msg #104

Re: Update

Think there's restrictions on vehicles purchased during character generation.

I think best plan is to simply pile the stuff on etc then at first opportunity 'acquire' one or two additional vehicles.
Doji Hoturi's PC (Not ready yet)
player, 6 posts
Staff Sergeant
Infantry (US)
Fri 9 May 2008
at 10:21
  • msg #105

Re: Update

Actually,

I think the starting vehicles are 'freebies'.  If you pool your money to 'buy' additional vehicles outside of that, it appears you can do so.

At least that is how I read the entry on equipment (pg 26-27).  It is vague enough for a GM call.
Doji Hoturi's PC (Not ready yet)
player, 7 posts
Staff Sergeant
Infantry (US)
Fri 9 May 2008
at 10:35
  • msg #106

Re: Update

Alrighty folks,

I got some serious money available for party funds.

I have outfitted myself and even some of that will go to the party.

There is more than $25k from my account that I have not touched mostly because I only bought what I can carry.

So have a great day shopping and I am hoping we can buy a truck.

...and chem lights and 550 cord and toilet paper and heat tabs...
branmac's PC (unfinished)
player, 2 posts
?Rank?
?Specialty (Nationality)?
Fri 9 May 2008
at 11:25
  • msg #107

Re: Update

I have had GM's rule that vehicles are purchasable at the begining before. I have also seen the reverse.

If we can I have no problem with going for a truck or even a Hummer, they would be handy. On the other hand I have no doubt we can probably manage to find them as well.

For scouting I am also fond of motorcycles. Fuel efficient and cheap.
This message was last edited by the player at 11:25, Fri 09 May 2008.
Fusilier
GM, 42 posts
Your Guide
Fri 9 May 2008
at 15:08
  • msg #108

Re: Update

Hello all. I am away for the weekend (until Sunday my time) however I snuck into an internet shop to check in on things.

Just a couple of points...

A Medium trailer is available. Soviet style 2 ton. I would recommend exchanging it for a medium still as Ben is correct. Methanol really doesn't give you much for two armoured vehicles.

At the moment. No other vehicles are available. If space is an issue... one option is to ditch taking some things. OR... go as packed as you can be and make your first priority getting your hands on soft skinned truck. The availability of such a vehicle is pretty high and I think you'd be more than able to pull it off.

I believe the 25mm may be a bit too tight for what you already have in the rear. 900 rounds is still in the Bradley so it isn't like you really need it in reserve right? After you've blown off a few... just reload the bins - step by step alright? I don't want to influence your decisions, but I think this is a matter of space availability.

You do certainly have alot of money... but unless you want two tons of small arms ammo, you've pretty much bought everything there is thats available. I've got an idea for a nice bonus that I didn't list. On Sunday when I see how you guys have worked things out, I'll probably add it. Its expensive but you have the space and its well worth it.

The two new PCs are done (minus kit) so I'll put up first game post on Sunday my time. Any other loose ends not sorted out by then - will be taken care of as we go. I think we are at least ready to get in some in character posts. If anything, just to get yourself on your feet and decide on a course of action. I've spent a while preping different scenarios and plots... so reagrdless of what the PCs want to do, it is fine by me.
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:09, Fri 09 May 2008.
Jennifer Gideon
player, 10 posts
Captain: Royal Engineers
"Blue wire Red wire hmm!"
Fri 9 May 2008
at 15:27
  • msg #109

Re: Update

Instead of being the 'good guy's we could be scumbags. Might be an intersting twist?
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 14 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Fri 9 May 2008
at 16:13
  • msg #110

Re: Update

I'd suggest going with the loadout in msg 88, thanks meyer but with the 2 ton trailer and medium still. Hurray now we can run the Bradley for 12 minutes a day!


As for being scumbags, in T2K the difference is usually on attitudes to loot, good guys kill the prisoner before stealing his gold fillings, bad guys don't want to spare the bullet.

At present we're miles into enemy territory and seperated from out unit. We are already the bandits.
Doji Hoturi's PC (Not ready yet)
player, 8 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Fri 9 May 2008
at 16:35
  • msg #111

Re: Update

Bummer, no truck.

Well, as far as personnel load out.  I think we should stick with no more than 4 dismounts in the Bradley.  Any extras go to the M113.

Sweet on the bigger trailer.  Fair enough using the Pact stuff.  Good call.  It will take us only 3 weeks to refuel the Bradley now, lol.  Good times.

Although we still have my cash to buy more fuel...something to consider.  Just space is the main issue at that point.
Stone
player, 12 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Fri 9 May 2008
at 23:06
  • msg #112

Re: Update

John Jameson McCarthy:
At present we're miles into enemy territory and seperated from out unit. We are already the bandits.


... we are the dirty dozen.
branmac's PC (unfinished)
player, 3 posts
?Rank?
?Specialty (Nationality)?
Sat 10 May 2008
at 01:18
  • msg #113

Re: Update

Hopefully our fine DM will bwe lenient on what I can buy to start with. The only things that are questionable really are the cigarettes, the brandy and the coffee. I mean you have to keep up the standards, right?
Doji Hoturi's PC (Not ready yet)
player, 9 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sat 10 May 2008
at 10:46
  • msg #114

Re: Update

I still got about $22k to spend, folks, and I am pretty well loaded down if we ever have to hoof it.  So that money is for the party treasurey, effectively.

Not sure where we are at with party funds but Branmac had a not too bad idea of good trade items.  Liquor (the good stuff) and cigarettes would be hot items along with ammunition for more common weapons that the 'locals' might use, and/or more fuel for our gashogs.

In fact, we could go ahead and purchase more small arms ammo for the express purpose of barter.  It is relatively space efficient and travels well.  I hate having all this money and nothing to spend it on.  Do we all have radios?

I also have a share of gold (coins or whatever) already set aside for later purchases.
Jennifer Gideon
player, 11 posts
Captain: Royal Engineers
"Blue wire Red wire hmm!"
Sat 10 May 2008
at 11:32
  • msg #115

Re: Update

I forgot about radios.

I'm not sure what the position is re ammo for trade. That had occurred to me, I'd thought 12 guage might well be a good choice. Other good trade item that's quite small is medicine.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 15 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sat 10 May 2008
at 11:48
  • msg #116

Re: Update

Shotgun shells, common PACT calibres and .22 would be good, easier to trade than medicines, a farmer can trust a handful of cartidges better than a bottle of asprin that could be just about anything. However, things will be limited by what the GM thinks is reasonable, we are a combat unit after all, not a travelling munitions store.
branmac's PC (unfinished)
player, 4 posts
?Rank?
?Specialty (Nationality)?
Sat 10 May 2008
at 12:01
  • msg #117

Re: Update

Yeah, as long as we have vehicles we shouldnt worry about carrying small arms ammo. It is small and compact, we can find places to stuff it. Heck even the Bradly has room for 5 or 6 cases of 5.56 what with the M231's it normally carried. Its the big stuff that wont fit well in it. And we can always pack spare BDU's and crap on the outside.
With the bigger trailor we have plenty of room for the bulkyer stuff. It wouldnt hurt to grab empty jerrycans and such for later when we do have the still running. Maybee I am just being optomistic but I would like to think we will be able to make enough to more than fill our tanks. And NBC gear might be handy bepending on how nice the GM is to us.
I expect to have around 20K to throw into the kitty after gearing up.
branmac's PC (unfinished)
player, 5 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Arm (US)
Sat 10 May 2008
at 12:17
  • msg #118

Re: Update

Ben Jagelis
player, 16 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Sat 10 May 2008
at 15:28
  • msg #119

Re: Update

What is the actual model M113 we have? I rather doubt it's the M113A3, and more likely an A2.

I believe that for trade goods, we're far better off with as much gold as we can lay our hands on (10% of the total) and electronics. Personally, I'd like nothing better than to have a ground surviellance radar, or a couple of dozen motion or seismic sensors. Lay a few of them out while we're immobile and distilling fuel, and we'll be ten times safer.

We should try and hang onto the 1 tonne trailer in addition to the 2 tonne Soviet trailer. I'm not sure about the Soviet models, but I can say from experience, several one tonne trailers can be strung together in a train. As it was a landrover I saw pulling three at once, I think the heavier and more powerful M113 engine should manage adequately.

We're also going to need a few dozen (minimum) pickets for erecting the barbed wire defences. Steel would be nice, but we can use wood if we have to.
Laying the wire should probably occur each time we stop for more than a day - distilling fuel, foraging, general maintenance, etc. As each bound of say four hours will leave our tanks with nothing but fumes, we're likely to be stationary for a month at a time (34 days for four hours fuel from a medium still).

Naturally it's in our best interests to scrounge/trade/extort/steal fuel at every opportunity so that we're not forced into immobility. I would also suggest that we never use up all of our fuel. Only travel until we've about half an hours worth left, so that we can move in an emergency.

Anyway, that's probably enough raving from me.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 16 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sat 10 May 2008
at 15:38
  • msg #120

Re: Update

No raving, just common sense. I'd agree on the reserve fuel side. Also there is a 1000 litre trailer availabe, would taking that help in our, squeeze fuel from Poland, tour?
branmac's PC (unfinished)
player, 6 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Arm (US)
Sat 10 May 2008
at 15:53
  • msg #121

Re: Update

I tend to favor getting the 1000 litre trailor. If we can buy or find fuel it gives us a place to store it. Also it alows us to cary refills or keep making more fuel once the tanks on the vehicles are full, which allows us to move further in an emergency.
I agree chaining trailors should be doable but thats tough if we go off road. If we have to we can put one on the bradly as well. Better to pull one there for the short term until we find a truck or something.
Ben Jagelis
player, 17 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Sat 10 May 2008
at 15:57
  • msg #122

Re: Update

Trailers are always a better option for us than extra vehicles as they require no extra fuel, and don't require crew.
We should snatch up every last one we can find, no matter what type. If they do not possess the hardware to "daisychain" them together, then it shouldn't be too hard to bodge up the connections from scrap - just need to keep in mind that there may be a need to reinforce the chassis with a metal beam or two.

Also, the M2 can tow a trailer if absolutely necessary, but I'd really like to avoid that if at all possible.

Reading through one of the US army docs posted on Global Security, I saw that the M113 apparently has the ability to mount a Dragon launcher to the right side of the commanders hatch in addition to the M2HB. I think this capability is something we should explore.

Also, there is a weapon mount to each side of the cargo roof hatch. A couple of machineguns located there for the use of any passengers would be very useful. Having often ridden in the back myself clutching an M60 and trying to avoid getting bruised too badly while travelling over rough terrain, a fixed mount would be a godsend!

Who are our mechanics too? With wear of 10 for the M2, and 6 for the M113, they're going to be very busy. Hmm, spare parts for the vehicles would be a good investment too for our excess cash.
branmac's PC (unfinished)
player, 7 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Arm (US)
Sat 10 May 2008
at 16:02
  • msg #123

Re: Update

Ben Jagelis:
What is the actual model M113 we have? I rather doubt it's the M113A3, and more likely an A2.


They started making the A3's in the late 80's so fairly possible we have on. If not I would guess the A2. Game wise theres not a huge differenc.

I kind of like the radar idea as well but at 40K they are pricy. Still if the GM will let us have one it might be worth while. Of course I also favor the portable shop as being terribly handy. Both tend to be scarce and pricy.
Ben Jagelis
player, 18 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Sat 10 May 2008
at 16:06
  • msg #124

Re: Update

Well, Ben was able to contribute around $17K himself so with your $20k and whatever else is available, I doubt we'll be all that short of funds.

If the radar and sensors are unavailable, I suppose we might be able to get by with a few hundred feet of fishing line and some tin cans with rocks in them.... :(
Doji Hoturi's PC (Not ready yet)
player, 10 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sat 10 May 2008
at 16:14
  • msg #125

Re: Update

Actually, I would be willing to bet we have the M113A3.  It is the one mentioned in the gamebook and it was the standard in the US Army by the early 90s.  Not even reservists or guardsmen were using A2s by then.

Stringing trailers sounds like it should work, although I have never seen it done, that doesn't mean it hasn't been done successfully.  Don't plan on too much off road activity if you run like that, though.

I will tell you right now, depending on the size of the perimeter you wanted to create, I doubt we would have the room to have enough concertina-wire, barb-wire and stakes to make truly effective barrier.  Something to funnel and slow, maybe, but that is about it.  Not that setting up what we have is a bad idea, just don't overestimate the capability of our current stores.  If we dedicated the 1 ton trailer to have a huge amount of this stuff, then yeah, we could have a good sized perimeter.

You might laugh, but in my experience, the best thing to do when you have only two vehicles is to park them backed up each other and keep one person on the main gun of each vehicle for security at all times.  Wouldn't hurt to keep someone on the ground, too.  It is the closest you can get to circling the wagons.  Certainly some wire around the two is a good idea.  Camo nets are your friend, also.

I would be all about having all kinds of cool electronics gear, but remember we use the generator to charge those bad boys.  And every liter of fuel that goes in the generator is one that does not go in the Bradley.
branmac's PC (unfinished)
player, 8 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Arm (US)
Sat 10 May 2008
at 16:17
  • msg #126

Re: Update

I am one of the mechanics I guess. I am better at shooting but I am a fair mechanic and a decent driver. Sort of that whole "tanker" kind of thing.

I excpect to be kicking in 15-20K so that also helps the funding of goodies.
branmac's PC (unfinished)
player, 9 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Arm (US)
Sat 10 May 2008
at 16:25
  • msg #127

Re: Update

As an alternative to the extra machineguns, we might look at a couple of Mk-19's. The ammo is bulkyer and more expensive but they are very handy. Of course that is assuming we can get them. If we can't I definatly agree having a couple of spare MMG's to mount could be handy.

Has anyone looked into IR gear, spotlights, etc?

Hmmm, to many handy things.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:26, Sat 10 May 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 19 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Sat 10 May 2008
at 16:29
  • msg #128

Re: Update

I agree with the limited wire situation. We should certainly scrounge whatever we can also - straight barbed wire is as common as mud and effective obstacles can be constructed with it. Sure it's not as quick to errect or as "user friendly" (if that's a term than can be applied to something that wants to rip you apart), but it'll do the job nicely.

Every time we halt to distil fuel, etc, we should treat it as if we're settling in for several weeks or more and set up whatever defences and camoflage we can. As previously posted, unless we can find fuel from somewhere, we'll be stationary for a month at a time.

I also agree with the positioning of the vehicles, although I'd like a little space between them, say 5-6 metres, just in case somebody drops some HE on us. Don't want to loose both in one blast....

In regard to generators, what about steam power? Sure it'll probably send up smoke, but as the still is likely to be operating anyway, and that certainly required fire to heat....
Or what about solar panels. Not sure what would be available though, nor can I really remember what the technology was like back in the mid to late 90's, but it's definately worth investigating.

We've already asked about the Mk-19s - none available damn it!  :(

http://www.pmulcahy.com/ We should all take a look though there and see if there's anything we'd like.
Doji Hoturi's PC (Not ready yet)
player, 11 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sat 10 May 2008
at 16:38
  • msg #129

Re: Update

We will want to look into hiring ourselves out to locals as security if we are going to be parked for a while.  I would rather set up in a small community if we are going to be stationary for more than a few days.  It will take some looking but I bet we could find some villages/towns that would jump at the chance.

I just cannot picture us hiding out in the woods for weeks on end, all by ourselves in a 50m diameter circle of barb-wire.  Besides, who out of us is gonna do the farming to feed us?
branmac's PC (unfinished)
player, 10 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Arm (US)
Sun 11 May 2008
at 04:11
  • msg #130

Re: Update

Silly question here. What languages do we have between us?

My character speaks english and passible french.
Ben Jagelis
player, 20 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Sun 11 May 2008
at 04:22
  • msg #131

Re: Update

Depends on the strategic situation really. It seems that all the characters are NATO and we're equiped predominately with NATO weapons, euipment and vehicles. If the local Pact forces were to hear about us, I'm sure we'd soon find ourselves with some unwanted visitors.

Once the command structure and units break down, it'd be much safer to make our presence known, but by my estimate, that's not likely to happen until early winter.

Regardless where we are set up, I'm sure we'll be out conducting foot patrols of the area, scrounging for food, supplies and fuel, and stripping the landscape of all available vegetation to feed into the still. Plenty of work to do and loads of opportunity to encounter both friends and foes.
Stone
player, 13 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Sun 11 May 2008
at 06:53
  • msg #132

Re: Update

Ben Jagelis:
Regardless where we are set up, I'm sure we'll be out conducting foot patrols of the area, scrounging for food, supplies and fuel, and stripping the landscape of all available vegetation to feed into the still. Plenty of work to do and loads of opportunity to encounter both friends and foes.



I kinda seen us as being on the run, either moving as fast as possible towards a fixed destination to be decided (possible alleged NATO stronghold).  Or holed up somewhere (maybe during daylight hours?) and relying on stealth rather than having patrols out.
Doji Hoturi's PC (Not ready yet)
player, 12 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sun 11 May 2008
at 07:33
  • msg #133

Re: Update

Kurt speaks English and German natively.

He also speaks limited Russian and Polish.

Yeah, I would prefer the idea of moving to an area with a high possibility of support.

Unfortunately, these vehicles are about the loudest things we could have had for transport other than an actual tank.  Also we are going to be fairly limited by the routes we take if we are going to daisy chain trailers, meaning we are going to be taking mostly some kind of road.

Traditionally when I was in a forward defense with vehicles, we did not utilize mobile patrols, partially because we usually didn't have dismounts to speak of.  When we did, however, we usually would post them in some kind of OP and they would pretty much hunker down and just keep eyes on the major avenues of approach.

I am inclined to agree with Stone's concept of movement.

I am think we should keep moving as much as possible, to the point of abandoning vehicles if it came to that.  Of course some of that is dependant on the time of year and situation surrounding our lack of fuel.  Even loaded down we can still move 30km/day on foot and we can forage food.

So you have to ask yourself, do I want to stay in the same place for 30days while we fuel up, or move by foot 900km in that same time?
branmac's PC (unfinished)
player, 11 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Arm (US)
Sun 11 May 2008
at 07:43
  • msg #134

Re: Update

The only problem with that is fuel. With what we have we can drive for about 4 hours. With the vehicles we have that gets us about 85-130 miles. We then have to buy/steal/make more. Making enough to move again takes about a month. That slows down the stealthy steady movement thing a bit. Matter of fact if all the vehicles, the tank trailer, the jerycans, and fuel bladders are full up we can drive for about 8 hours. We just have fuel hogs for transport.

We can get lighter vehicles for tactical movement [and I think that should be one of our short term goals], but the armored stuff is all a fuel hog. With only one medium still it takes a long time to fill up. Short of setting up in place and digging in while we brew th go juice we are dependent on what we buy/steal/find and while it could be fairly plentifull we dont know yet.

We can easyly setup and run multipal medium stills if we get the supplies and transport [and should] but that is about our limit. Small still 30kg in/5liter out weighs 75kg; medium 80kg in/35liters out 2000kg; large 3000kg/2400liters out but weighs 83,000kg.

Mind you, if we happen across a 5000liter truck of diesel or gassoline we can go zipping around, otherwise not so much.
branmac's PC (unfinished)
player, 12 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Arm (US)
Sun 11 May 2008
at 07:52
  • msg #135

Re: Update

I hate to leave the rides behind if we dont absolutly have to. They are really handy and they let us cary more gear. If we have to, oh yeah hoof it, but I would hate to do it.

I hate to loose the fire power as it is one of our big adavantages, but I hate being stuck as well.
Doji Hoturi's PC (Not ready yet)
player, 13 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sun 11 May 2008
at 08:08
  • msg #136

Re: Update

Fire power and armor is nice but it comes with a HUGE price tag.  That is noise and visibility.  You need all that extra stuff because in many senses you are more vulnerable.  You will attract all kind of attention in a Bradley that you would never get on foot.

If you look at a normal small unit (like an SF team, for example), they tend to have unarmored, light and quick vehicles.  Certainly they are heavily armed, as that goes considering the platform, but they are light and small and relatively quiet.  Small units in for the long haul get mules and horses.

You can move in places when you are on foot that you could never go in a vehicle.  That is as much protection as you need, in most cases.

And if IIRC, most military vehicles are designed to reach about 300 miles on a single tank of fuel.  I would have to check the mechanics of the game to see if that holds true.  But that is a good start on our way back.  Certainly we can take it slow and careful only moving one period/day (at night) but no matter what we will be essentially stuck after the third day unless we get a sweet hookup.

Armored vehicles are only good as long as they are moving.  If they stop, they become tall pillboxes.  When that happens you generally don't want to be near it for any prolonged length of time, because they will find you eventually.  And RPGs will ruin your whole day.
Fusilier
GM, 43 posts
Your Guide
Sun 11 May 2008
at 09:36
  • msg #137

Final Prep

Hello again,

The M113 is the A3 version.

You can string a second trailer on to another, but it will affect cross country travel.

You have all the wire thats available. But it is very easy to come across in Poland. Either from farms or old defensive positions. In addition, only the gear listed here is currently available - you come from a hurting division... there wasn't much to go around.

The only thing I will hold off until confirmation is whether you want more than the current 2 Ton Soviet Trailer. There is still the 1 ton and 1000L as well. Just let me know. If you buy the 1000L I'll also allow you to buy methanol for it.

All PCs are now ready to go. I'll give you what you've asked for (thats available) and any more planning you need, you can do IC alright? Things like unit SOPs for halting and vehicle formations, etc. You all might want to consider the big picture options the party has while discussing the fuel situation.

I'll update the equipment pages, add some gold and other trade goods, and fill up the fuel bladder (only) with Diesel. This will be the trade off for limited gear and weapons, compliments of the UK's North Sea petrol assets. Any other fuel you buy for 1000L tanks or whatever, must be methanol. Remember your vehicles are rigged for methanol so to switch fuels it needs to be modified again by a mechanic. You might want to be very picky on when to actually burn it, as its doubtful you'll come across any more for quite some time.
This message was last edited by the GM at 09:37, Sun 11 May 2008.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 17 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sun 11 May 2008
at 09:40
  • msg #138

Re: Final Prep

Goody. If we can buy methanol too, I'd say we should get the 1000 litre trailer. It gives us more options when it comes to range.
Fusilier
GM, 45 posts
Your Guide
Sun 11 May 2008
at 10:35
  • msg #139

Re: Final Prep

You have 4 empty jerry cans - I'll assume you will purchase Methanol for them and fill them up.

You have eight Jerry Cans in total. Two came with each vehicle full of fuel. The other 4 were purchased separately as unit equipment (but are empty).
This message was last edited by the GM at 10:37, Sun 11 May 2008.
Helmut Meyer
player, 21 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sun 11 May 2008
at 11:06
  • msg #140

Re: Update

Doji Hoturi's PC (Not ready yet):
And if IIRC, most military vehicles are designed to reach about 300 miles on a single tank of fuel.  I would have to check the mechanics of the game to see if that holds true.  But that is a good start on our way back.


Don't forget we are running on Methanol fuel. It is consumed 3 times faster than diesel - or in other words we travel 1/3 of the normal distance these vehicles can go as you mentioned.

In any case on Methanol we can travel 4 hours before the tanks run dry. That equals out what the slowest vehicle can travel in that amount of time... ie the M113. So we can travel a maximum distance of 130km by road the entire way / or 85km cross country (less maybe if we link trailers).

After that amount of time/distance we have 160L in the Jerry Cans, and the 250L of precious diesel.
Fusilier
GM, 46 posts
Your Guide
Sun 11 May 2008
at 11:24
  • msg #141

Re: Update

^ Correct.

Where are Weiss and St.Gil located in the vehicles? I recall one riding in the roof hatch of the M113 - Weiss I believe?

St.Gil would make a pretty good Bradley gunner. I remember Meyer saying she'd rather not go there unless absolutely necessary. That was before the two new additions. What do you think?
Marc St.Gil
player, 13 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Sun 11 May 2008
at 11:29
  • msg #142

Re: Update

I say definatly get the tank trailor and fill it with methanol, it increases our options and the total is only $5000. Well worth it in my opinion.
Marc St.Gil
player, 14 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Sun 11 May 2008
at 11:32
  • msg #143

Re: Update

Either works for me. I can drive either, I can shoot the main weapons on either, or I can just ride in comfort. They all work.
Kurt Weiss
player, 14 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sun 11 May 2008
at 12:31
  • msg #144

Re: Update

Yeah, it was me that offered to go to the M113.  And yeah, someone also mentioned that we might want to have CPT Gideon in the M113, also.  Her being the second officer and all.

Yep, get the trailer and fill it with Methanol.  That will double our total range before we have to stop and make the decision to settle in or abandon.

Depending on where we are in relation to other potential friendly positions, I would probably encourage trying to link up with the Latvian forces that 8th ID was trying to reach.  If there are 'known' friendly forces closer, we should probably head that direction, instead.

We will also have to keep in mind our water stores.  If we choose not to keep much with us, we will have to follow water sources (natural or man-made).
Ben Jagelis
player, 21 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Sun 11 May 2008
at 12:39
  • msg #145

Re: Update

I vote for all three trailers. Daisy chain the tranker behind the 2 tonne and M113, and put the 1 tonne behind the M2. Only items we can afford to loose go on the one tonne so that if the ramp needs to be dropped, and the trailer is damaged beyond repair....

Whether we travel on or off road, by day or night doesn't really matter that much to me although I would vote for daytime to help with stopping obstacles/enemy etc. Travelling by night will not gain us very much at all as both vehicles will be heard a mile off (or more). Stealth just isn't going to happen.

While moving, we should run exclusively on alcohol. The moment our tanks are dry, except for maybe a jerrycan or two, the still gets set up and once the area has been scouted for threats, we convert the engines to diesel. This will allow us a quick getaway if needed (except for the 8 hour conversion time initially). While converted and distilling, we only run the engines if our lives depend on it and even then take a long hard think beforehand.

Probably should convert back to alcohol the moment we've enough to take us about two hours?

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a steam powered generator too. Could be fired using the waste from the still (once it's dried out) and only run for as long as it's needed to charge batteries, etc. Certainly be a heavy peice of kit though, but should be worth the effort.

No matter what we do, I'm certain we're going to be discovered by hostile forces on a fairly regular basis. As we'll be immobile, or only foot mobile about 95% of the time, we'd better make sure our defenses are as good as we can make them! Barbed wire, deadfalls, claymores, pits, you name it, we'd better have them - unless we can find a nice safe haven somewhere like Krakow.
Helmut Meyer
player, 22 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sun 11 May 2008
at 14:15
  • msg #146

Re: Update

I vote for the medium trailer/still setup.

I don't think we should keep going with more trailers after that. We have 160L capacity in the Jerry cans which would take almost 5 days to fill up. I don't think we need to sacrifice mobility to be able to carry more. Its going to be consumed just way to much/fast. Five days is a looong time (game time) to be sitting idle and don't think it will be happening. Thats more than enough time for any hide to be discovered by civies or military.
Kurt Weiss
player, 15 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sun 11 May 2008
at 14:41
  • msg #147

Re: Update

I am all about the 1 ton tanker trailer is for no other reason as it will double our range with the vehicles.

I am okay with dumping it as soon as it is empty. It would be a bummer if we found a bunch of diesel sitting around and didn't have it around, though.  :-P

Ahh, decisions, decisions...

And yes, I am not a fan of sitting around for any prolonged length of time.  How far is Krakow?  How far are the Latvians?  How far are our friendlies to the west, south, or north?  Where were nukes/chemical used?

We are also in an apparently fairly heavily patrolled area.  So as convenient as the vehicles are, we are definitely limited to off road by the looks of it.  So they are not as helpful as they could be as far as pure speed.

30km/day isn't too bad if it comes to it.  Everybody's got good boots, yeah?  Two pair even?
Fusilier
GM, 48 posts
Your Guide
Sun 11 May 2008
at 14:44
  • msg #148

Languages

branmac's PC (unfinished):
What languages do we have between us?


Multi-lingual PCs

Ben - French (fluent)
Meyer - German (fluent) Czech (Medium)
McCarthy - German (fleunt)
Weiss - German (fluent) Russian (Weak) Polish (Weak)
St.Gil - French (Weak)
Boswell - Polish (Weak)
Stone - German (Weak)

Edit - Weiss is fluent in German.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:08, Sun 11 May 2008.
Helmut Meyer
player, 23 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sun 11 May 2008
at 14:52
  • msg #149

Re: Update

Kurt Weiss:
30km/day isn't too bad if it comes to it.  Everybody's got good boots, yeah?  Two pair even?


I wouldn't think its a bad thing. Its got is pros and cons like everything else, but I favor this if it comes down to it.
Marc St.Gil
player, 15 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Sun 11 May 2008
at 15:10
  • msg #150

Re: Update

A suggestion to consider on fuel usage. Take the 2 ton trailor and the 1000litor trailor. Put the cargo trailor on the M113 and either chain the tanker to it or hook it to the bradly. If and when we have to move drive till the tankes in the vehicles are dry and stop. Refill from the tanker and jerrycans and start making fuel. Fuel the cans first and then the tanker. If we have to move in a hurry we will have a full load to do it on, and if we have to move and leave the tanker it will be at least partially empty.
As soon as we can we grab a light truck, hummer or such to pull the tanker and use for scouting asit can move much more fuel efficiently. If we make it past our first move we may be in better shape.

By the by, I got us some extra group gear. The foam sleeping pads and shower unit are just my way of making life a bit more livable for everyone. The rest is just handy stuff.
Fusilier
GM, 50 posts
Your Guide
Sun 11 May 2008
at 15:17
  • msg #151

Re: Update

Fellas,

I've put up the first post. Its been almost 2 weeks since the game has been first up. I think thats a good length of time to sort out gear and PCs and getting close to people losing interest. I hope I am not rushing anyone, but if I am, keep in mind nothing is permanent (I'm talking mostly about gear).

I've set the stage in a (somewhat) secure location. The intention is for you guys to come up with a plan of action. After that, where we go is up to you.

Edit - 1 X 2ton Trailer & 1 X 1000L Tank Trailer (full of meth) are purchased. I am still working out the trade items but don't worry about that for the meantime.
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:19, Sun 11 May 2008.
Kurt Weiss
player, 17 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sun 11 May 2008
at 17:35
  • msg #152

Re: Update

Weiss is also fluent in German, as well as his smattering of Polish and Russian.  I may have placed it in a weird spot on my character sheet I PM'd you.  But the rolls are posted for it.

FROM GM - Got it. I edited your char sheet too.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:10, Sun 11 May 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 22 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Sun 11 May 2008
at 23:50
  • msg #153

Re: Update

I like the idea of always having a reserve and only driving until the vehicle tanks are dry. Makes a little more sene than converting the engines at each stop....  :S

How are we going for cargo space? If possible, I'd like to have everything carried under armour (except barbed wire and other nastiness that'll cut us up in rough terrain). If we're well set, I'm all for taking just the two trailers - how they're towed is something we can work out along the way.

Do we have a common language? Does everyone speak English? Life will be rather....."interesting" if we don't.
Ben Jagelis
player, 25 posts
Lieutenant
Infantry (Canada)
Mon 12 May 2008
at 02:16
  • msg #154

Re: Update

Sorry, I just had to throw in an unthinking sexist comment in there somewhere to help establish Ben's stupidity.   :D
Kurt Weiss
player, 19 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Mon 12 May 2008
at 16:47
  • msg #155

Re: Update

LOL,

Jordan, that was a great post, but I think something was mentioned about keeping the particularly naughty language in #$%@ characters.

I hope that I am not just remembering that from another group I PbP with, I will have to search the OOC archives for verification.

That was classic, though.  I truly laughed out loud.
Marc St.Gil
player, 18 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Tue 13 May 2008
at 04:31
  • msg #156

Re: Update

Next silly question. Who all is a mechanic and how good? My total is about 11.
Fusilier
GM, 52 posts
Your Guide
Tue 13 May 2008
at 06:17
  • msg #157

Skills???

Marc St.Gil:
Next silly question. Who all is a mechanic and how good? My total is about 11.


I believe the only other mechanic is Henry Jordan, M113 driver. He's pretty good at it. So it looks like one per vehicle at the moment.

I'm going to open up another thread for the players. I figured you have gotten to know each other's capabilities working together (even in the last couple of days of getting separated from the division). This thread will be an open quick resource for the info you'd know about each other.

There you can post your PC's abilities. Borrowing the idea from another game, please don't list the actual skill point totals. Rather, describe their strength in that skill how you would describe it in person. Other quick reference info can be added too. Example...

Name - Henry Jordan

Skills
Mechanic (Strong)
Small Arms Rifle (Average)
Autogun (Weak)

I'll leave it up to you how you want to list it. Just no exact skill numbers please.
Ben Jagelis
player, 27 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 13 May 2008
at 06:20
  • msg #158

SOP

Jordan is apparently a pretty good mechanic.

I'd like to propose two standing orders.

Any time a foot patrol is away from the immediate area of the vehicles, at least one of the vehicles is ready for immediate movement to support the patrol. This would entail the trailer being disconnected (and possibly daisy chained behind the other), no maintenance currently taking place on it and a reasonable (ie all we can spare) amount of fuel in the tank.

The second vehicle should be undergoing only light maintenance so that it also is able to move within say 10 minutes? In other words, no engine rebuilds etc while the team is not all within shouting distance.

If vehicle crewmembers are away from the vehicles, an alternate is assigned before they leave so that time is not wasted figuring out who's driving etc.


Also, at least two people are assigned to sentry duty at any time. Sentries may, and probably should, be posted with a radio some distance from the vehicles to give early warning. If the sentry is discovered, they are to immediately return to the vehicles if possible rather than return fire. If pinned, a "reaction team" will immediately lend support in an appropriate form (probably on foot to provide cover fire while the sentry withdraws).

If the sentry is undetected, it's left up to them depending on the situation to either stay in place and report by radio, or make their way back to the vehicles if it looks like we'll have to relocate the camp immediately.

Naturally there would be exceptions and alterations to the above, but I think it's a good start.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:20, Wed 14 May 2008.
Helmut Meyer
player, 30 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Tue 13 May 2008
at 07:08
  • msg #159

Re: SOP

^ Sounds good to me.
Kurt Weiss
player, 21 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Tue 13 May 2008
at 08:27
  • msg #160

Re: SOP

Sounds reasonable to me, as well.  Lieutenant, you get a cookie.  :)
Ben Jagelis
player, 29 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 14 May 2008
at 01:46
  • msg #161

Re: SOP

Continuing on, I don't think there is a need for the vehicle guns to be manned 24/7 if sentries are posted. This does not mean that those left ithe camp are allowed to slack off - they still need to remain alert.
Those left at camp should try to watch outwards at all times even while cooking, cleaning, mashing material for the still, etc. The only time anyone might be allowed to not be alert is when sleeping or if the task they are doing restricts them (ie head deep within an engine bay).

Assigning people to replace vehicle crew who are away from camp is done so that in the event of a contact, the vital positions are covered (driver, gunner).


At night, sentry/picket/guard duty is done from the gunners hatch of one of the vehicles. More positions would be manned at night if we had the manpower but with a unit of just 10 people, that's not really possible.

The ideas above come from my personal infantry experience and working with M113 APCs on occasion. An infantry section (9-10 men) has two people on picket at any one time, located at the same position. This is so that if one starts to drift off, the otgher can nudge them awake. Shifts are staggered so that when one person starts theirs, the other is already halfway through.

APC picket is done a little differently due to reduced manpower available (2 men per vehicle, 3-4 vehicles). Only one vehicle is used for picket with each person rotating through the gunners seat during the night. I'm not sure what happens when there is 4 vehicles (8 men) but I would imagine pickets shifts are just a little shorter.

When APCs and infantry are "married up", ie working together as an integrated unit, the infantry and APC crew still carry out their usual picket routines.

APC crew tend to have a much easier time of it than infantry as they were often seen with a brew in hand while on picket. Us poor infantry didn't have anywhere to hide the light from our hexamine stoves. The drawback of vehicles is that even while stationary, they make a racket. Metal cooling, hatches occasionally banging, and so on make a huge noise that is almost impossible to avoid. The most noise from a purely infantry unit is often just somebody snoring.  :/

Edit: APC crew often also have hammocks strung up inside the passenger compartment while infantry have to contend with rocks and tree roots for their bed.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:48, Wed 14 May 2008.
Marc St.Gil
player, 22 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Wed 14 May 2008
at 03:39
  • msg #162

Re: SOP

That is why we ended up with the foam pads in our inventory. Insulation, padding, packing material and they smush up fairly small. Makes life a little better. Armor and vehicle crew are netorious for finding spaces for little comfots that straight infantry can't carry.

And yeah, I do have a hammock. :)
Marc St.Gil
player, 23 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Wed 14 May 2008
at 03:49
  • msg #163

Re: SOP

In the short term it probably does no harm to have both guns manned. While we are several miles from the road we are still somewhat exposed here. In the long run we don't have enough people to gover the guns, the perimiter, maintenence, foraging, etc all at the same time.
It will take some flexability, but being a little extra paranoid when we first stop probably isn't entirely bad. Just not something we can pull off long term.
Fusilier
GM, 55 posts
Your Guide
Wed 14 May 2008
at 05:56
  • msg #164

Cast

Fellas, don't forget to enter in your abilities and open information regarding your PC. This will help keep things going so others don't have to always ask who can do various skills and tasks. You don't need to list all your abilities, just the ones you think the group will need to specifically identify.
Stone
player, 16 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Wed 14 May 2008
at 07:39
  • msg #165

Re: Cast

I'm away for 3 out of the next 4 days ...
Fusilier
GM, 56 posts
Your Guide
Wed 14 May 2008
at 08:37
  • msg #166

Re: Cast

Stone:
I'm away for 3 out of the next 4 days ...


Ok, thanks for telling me KC.
Jennifer Gideon
player, 14 posts
Captain: Royal Engineers
"Blue wire Red wire hmm!"
Wed 14 May 2008
at 08:43
  • msg #167

Re: Cast

What's viewed as the skill ranges for the Skills?
Fusilier
GM, 57 posts
Your Guide
Wed 14 May 2008
at 10:37
  • msg #168

Re: Cast

Kurt Weiss:
OOC: Sorry, timing makes this post a bit late.


Sorry. I moved on. I'll try not to cut it too short next time.

Jennifer Gideon:
What's viewed as the skill ranges for the Skills?


Nothing was standardized I believe... just how people perceived their skills to be.
Kurt Weiss
player, 26 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Wed 14 May 2008
at 12:37
  • msg #169

Re: Cast

No, no...I understand.  It's good to get things moving.  I just happened to have a remedy for a couple of issues that came up before we actually headed out on patrol.

I apologize, I post at kind of weird times because I am in Korea.
Fusilier
GM, 58 posts
Your Guide
Wed 14 May 2008
at 14:00
  • msg #170

Re: Cast

Kurt Weiss:
No, no...I understand.  It's good to get things moving.  I just happened to have a remedy for a couple of issues that came up before we actually headed out on patrol.

I apologize, I post at kind of weird times because I am in Korea.


I post at odd times too (or maybe not for you) - I am in Thailand.
Ben Jagelis
player, 32 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Thu 15 May 2008
at 00:11
  • msg #171

Re: Cast

...and I'm a couple of miles further south in Tasmania....   :D
Marc St.Gil
player, 24 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Thu 15 May 2008
at 01:33
  • msg #172

Re: Cast

Well I am in Texas which is normally considered part of the US. I work third shift though so my posting also tends to hit odd timing.
Ben Jagelis
player, 34 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 16 May 2008
at 02:42
  • msg #173

Re: Cast

Hmmm, so although we have plenty of ammo, it seems that (so far) we've nobody with a shotgun or grenade launcher.....   :/

If the group equipment hasn't yet been finalised, and we've the funds to spare, I'd like to get the Dragon that's available and all the missiles we can. As previously posted in OOC, it appears the M113 has the ability to mount this weapon to the right of the commanders hatch which would then give us a potent second antiarmour capability.
As it's also dismountable, unlike the TOW, we'd have great flexibility in employment. Yes, we do have M72s and the RPG, but these are very much short range weapons with fairly limited penetration against harder targets. The Dragon would allow us to seriously threaten even late generation MBTs (although we'd be mad to seek them out).
This message was last edited by the player at 02:51, Fri 16 May 2008.
Marc St.Gil
player, 26 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Fri 16 May 2008
at 03:08
  • msg #174

Re: Cast

Makes sense to me. I am also good with picking up a couple of 203's and a couple of 12gage pumps if we can. If we cant get them now we should when we pass through a town.
Fusilier
GM, 60 posts
Your Guide
Fri 16 May 2008
at 04:06
  • msg #175

Re: Cast

Sorry, the moment has passed. There was some discussion for getting the Dragon or the light Soviet ATGM, but the idea was dropped and not brought back up.

Minor note - You have no M203 but you do have a crate of 72 X 40mm HE.
Ben Jagelis
player, 35 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 16 May 2008
at 04:27
  • msg #176

Re: Cast

It's Poland. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of soldiers (and more civilians) have fought and died within it's borders - I'm actually supprised we're not tripping over the stuff!
Kurt Weiss
player, 27 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Fri 16 May 2008
at 09:35
  • msg #177

Re: Cast

...and its getting picked up just as fast as its getting dropped.  How do you think we have all the stuff we do.

The Pact and the local militias are grabbing everything they can.
Ben Jagelis
player, 36 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 17 May 2008
at 12:16
  • msg #178

Re: Cast

So why are most militia so poorly armed with bows, crossbows, old shotguns and the odd .22 rifle then? Doesn't make a lot of sense really does it....
And don't forget that most able bodied men (and many of the women) are likely to have been conscripted into the military (and possibly promptly deserted).

Even considering that say half of all weapons dropped by the dead are unusable for some reason (a ludicriously high percentage), and many of what's left have been picked up an reissued to soldiers, the global reduction in population is likely to have reduced the demand for bulk amounts of weaponry.

In Poland this is even more pronounced as some areas such as Selesia in the south, have lost upwards of 97% of the prewar population - only 3 in every 100 people are still alive. Add in that this area was hotly contested over a much of the war, and you'd think the place was carpeted in military hardware just waiting to be picked up.

So why does the game lean so heavily towards an underarmed civilian populace? Well, there's the obvious "essential to the plot" ploy commonly used in novels and movies, but I think there are actually some very good reasons.

Every time a military unit moves through an area, it's quite likely that they will be reclaiming or confiscating military weapons from the locals - it's not like they NEED a PKM to go hunting with is it? Fear might also play a part. Any civilian with a military weapon could conceivably be considered to be an enemy combatant and so some of the more battle weary units may treat the locals harshly if they're found to be armed.

Weapons also wear out. A rifle used only for hunting is likely to last quite a few years, but if it's been laying in the dirt for a month or two before it was scavenged, it's likely to not be in the best of condition to begin with.

Firearms require ammunition. Even the best supplied military units in 2000 have to make do with reloads. Once the readily available ammo has been expended, the rifle is really a clumsy club. If it has wooden furniture on it (stock and butt), at least it's worth firewood and the metal parts might be able to be fabricated into something useful - like arrowheads....

So as can be seen, there's plenty of reasons why civilians are essentially unarmed in T2K, even in warzones. If a group of PCs are lucky enough to stumble across an old battlefield, it's likely that it's been picked fairly clean already, it's radioactive, or what's left is so badly damaged from the elements that it's next to useless.

Doesn't hurt to keep your eyes open though, never know when you'll trip over something really nice.  :P
Jennifer Gideon
player, 16 posts
Captain: Royal Engineers
"Blue wire Red wire hmm!"
Sat 17 May 2008
at 12:33
  • msg #179

Re: Cast

Depending on how badly damaged industry has been making primer for the ammunition could be comparatively difficult.
Kurt Weiss
player, 29 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sat 17 May 2008
at 13:23
  • msg #180

Re: Cast

Ben,

I think you reinforced my point and refuted your own original comment regarding tripping over the stuff (except perhaps in the regard of tripping over unusable stuff).  Point taken on my reference to the Pact AND the militias picking up the stuff.  I will grant you probably mostly Pact regulars are doing so, mostly because they are first on the scene.


And Jennifer,

Yep, I am dreading the time when we run out of the good stuff.  Blackpowder weapons are not the easiest stuff to work with.
Ben Jagelis
player, 38 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 17 May 2008
at 13:29
  • msg #181

Re: Cast

Yeah, my original point was a bit tongue-in-cheek.  :D

We really should invest in learning how to make and use bows. Faster rate of fire than black powder, and an oversized crossbow mounted instead of the M2HB would look really cool on the M113.

:P
This message was last edited by the player at 13:41, Sat 17 May 2008.
Jennifer Gideon
player, 17 posts
Captain: Royal Engineers
"Blue wire Red wire hmm!"
Sat 17 May 2008
at 13:36
  • msg #182

Re: Cast

Flintlocks and Cannon!

Cavalry charges!

Form Square men!

Hold the line!
Kurt Weiss
player, 30 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sat 17 May 2008
at 13:44
  • msg #183

Re: Cast

It will be like Mad Max or Road Warrior.  Have someone riding the 1 ton tanker trailer surrounded with wire and sitting in a homemade cupola with a mounted crossbow.  :)

Heh, and I was gonna make a comment about some Blackpowder weapons being faster than Bows but then I remember that those require percussion caps...dammit.

...And I aint formin' no squares.  Flintlocks still work well from behind trees and such.  Maybe we can get the Pact to form squares, though.  Roger's Rangers, for the win.
Ben Jagelis
player, 39 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 17 May 2008
at 13:48
  • msg #184

Re: Cast

I think blackpowder might actualy be quicker than bows.....


....for the first shot anyway!  :P
Marc St.Gil
player, 27 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Sat 17 May 2008
at 19:21
  • msg #185

Re: Cast

Bah! Give the bastards a touch of the grape and they will fall apart!
Marc St.Gil
player, 28 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Sat 17 May 2008
at 19:23
  • msg #186

Re: Cast

OOC:
GIDEON
IN VEHICLE
PLAYING WITH IED's


Quick vote here, who thinks Guideon is the scaryest of us all? I mean, she thinks playing with bombs is playing.   :D
Ethan Creswick
player, 2 posts
E4 Sergeant
Combat Medical Tech, RAMC
Sun 18 May 2008
at 06:00
  • msg #187

Re: Cast

Okay, everyone, I got everything sorted out and all approved, so I'll hopefully be seeing some of you shortly, heh.  Looks like it should be pretty entertaining.

PS: Forgive the forthcoming dodgy English accent. :)
Helmut Meyer
player, 37 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sun 18 May 2008
at 06:26
  • msg #188

Re: Cast

Welcome (back I believe).

Marc St.Gil:
Quick vote here, who thinks Gideon is the scariest of us all? I mean, she thinks playing with bombs is playing.


I don't want to be the first one to set up of those IEDs... just in case.
Ben Jagelis
player, 40 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sun 18 May 2008
at 12:50
  • msg #189

Re: Cast

I rather think she's got it right. Making your own fragmentation bombs is fun (been there, done that myself).
Only thing is that you have to be careful not to get the explosives, or for that matter, even just your hands after handling the stuff, too close to your head. The chemicals give you one hell of a headache!

Shame we don't have a few hundred litres of gasoline to burn. I'd love a bit of fugas* placed around the perimeter. :P


* Barrel of fuel with a slab of explosives under it.
Ethan Creswick
player, 4 posts
E4 Sergeant
Combat Medical Tech, RAMC
Sun 18 May 2008
at 19:52
  • msg #190

Re: Cast

Yeah, elltee, how about we wait for the friendlies to get in before you start setting up the fiendish grid of explosives.. ;)
Varis Babicevs
player, 2 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Sun 18 May 2008
at 22:20
  • msg #191

Re: Cast


Hello everyone. It's Raellus here. The school year is almost over and that means more time for T2K! I'm looking forward to gaming with you all.

Don't mind Varis, he's a bit... odd.
Ben Jagelis
player, 41 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 19 May 2008
at 00:56
  • msg #192

Re: Cast

Varis Babicevs:
Nationality: Latvian (don't call him Russian!)

Ok, "Commie" it is then....   ;)
Ben Jagelis
player, 42 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 19 May 2008
at 01:05
  • msg #193

Re: Cast

Ethan Creswick:
Ethan fired off a crisp salute.

Quick, shoot him before he gets us all!

You NEVER, EVER salute in the field. Attracts snipers to the officers....
Ben Jagelis
player, 46 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 19 May 2008
at 07:26
  • msg #194

Re: Cast

* As in fresh rations - the berries in this case.
Fusilier
GM, 65 posts
Your Guide
Mon 19 May 2008
at 08:04
  • msg #195

Re: Cast

- Moved Weiss' M177 (and 6 mags) from inventory to Kelly's.
- Moved Kelly's MP5A2 (and 6 mags) to M113/unit stores.
- Weiss's primary weapon is now M21 I assume.
- Food recalculated for newcomers' submitted load.
This message was last edited by the GM at 08:05, Mon 19 May 2008.
Kurt Weiss
player, 32 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Mon 19 May 2008
at 08:19
  • msg #196

Re: Cast

Yeah, works for me on the equipment.

...and Ethan,
Yeah, you don't wanna be flashing that fancy British salute in this environment.  It's cool for garrison, though.

*mmm...berries...keep you regular...
Marc St.Gil
player, 31 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Mon 19 May 2008
at 08:25
  • msg #197

Re: Cast

Ben Jagelis:
Varis Babicevs:
Nationality: Latvian (don't call him Russian!)

Ok, "Commie" it is then....   ;)


Hey! Get it right. It's Commie Bastard! Give the man the curtesy of his propper title.  :D
Stone
player, 21 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Mon 19 May 2008
at 09:35
  • msg #198

Re: Cast

Varis Babicevs:
Hello everyone. It's Raellus here. The school year is almost over and that means more time for T2K! I'm looking forward to gaming with you all.



Hey Raellus (& others) ... kcdusk here.
Fusilier
GM, 66 posts
Your Guide
Tue 20 May 2008
at 06:30
  • msg #199

Map

Hey fellas...

I updated/corrected the map. There was an error in the official Twilight map regarding the northern section of the Vistula. I made the correction and added some flags to represent the extent of the info you have on enemy/partisan positions.

Question. How is the pace right now? I know its not entirely exciting with no firefights or anything... but thought you'd like to get yourself sorted out as a unit first. Losing interest? Bored? Speed up the pace? There are challenges ahead, but you are relatively safe at the moment.
This message was last edited by the GM at 06:32, Tue 20 May 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 48 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 20 May 2008
at 06:37
  • msg #200

Re: Map

Personally I think it's rolling along nicely.
In my experience though it's best to keep an eye on who's posted what and respond as needed, even if that means speeding up the pace a bit. Slower posters can get a little left out, but experience has taught me it's better that that letting things slow down just to keep a preset post rate and possibly have a game die away.

With regard to the map, I tend to stick with the ones published simply because there has been significant climate changes in the past couple of game years. Take Northern America for example - previously high rainfall areas have turned into virtual deserts, the Mississipi had radically changed course, and so on. Who's to say the Vistula has not likewise been effected?

Mind you, it is hard for hills, valleys and mountains to get up and move - unless they were the target of a multi-megatonne groundburst nuke or three.... :S
This message was last edited by the player at 06:42, Tue 20 May 2008.
Helmut Meyer
player, 42 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Tue 20 May 2008
at 06:46
  • msg #201

Re: Map

I think things are quite good. We are being productive in the peace and quiet we have at the moment - and I don't think an encounter is necessary for the very beginning.

The pace is fine by me. I get time to do different things but aren't stuck repeating actions (ie four or five posts explaining I am still eating breakfast).
Fusilier
GM, 67 posts
Your Guide
Tue 20 May 2008
at 06:56
  • msg #202

Re: Map

Ben Jagelis:
With regard to the map, I tend to stick with the ones published simply because there has been significant climate changes in the past couple of game years. Take Northern America for example - previously high rainfall areas have turned into virtual deserts, the Mississipi had radically changed course, and so on. Who's to say the Vistula has not likewise been effected?


I understand what you are saying and agree. In this case, it seems to be a simple error and its messing with my plans and plot ideas.

The error is that there is really a fork in the Visula. The book shows the right hand river which leads to Malbork - but ignores the left (there is no fork in the original map) It is the left that is actually the Vistula which runs by Tzcew. The right being the Nogat river. I am not so much concerned with the names or which is which... it is the obstacle that matters and which towns have bridges.

I know it may seem very trivial, and normally I would have ignored it. But as I said, its kind of messing with my work.
Ben Jagelis
player, 49 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 20 May 2008
at 07:00
  • msg #203

Re: Map

Bridges? who needs them?
We have two amphibious vehicles, a couple of trailers and several tarps. Not a problem....
Helmut Meyer
player, 43 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Tue 20 May 2008
at 07:03
  • msg #204

Re: Map

Kurt, I am a little confused on the rotation. Sorry if this seems dumb, but we are doing 2 on at night correct, but only one name is listed. Assuming there is 8 hours for night sentry do we do two shifts?

Jordan (1 hour perimeter)
LT Jagelis (1 hour gun/1 hour perimeter)
CSM Weiss (1 hour gun/1 hour perimeter)
Babicevs (1 hour gun/1 hour perimeter)
Unteroffizier Meyer (1 hour gun/1 hour perimeter)
Creswick (1 hour gun/1 hour perimeter)
Kelly (1 hour gun/1 hour perimeter)
SSG Gil (1 hour gun/1 hour perimeter)
LT Boswell (1 hour gun/1 hour perimeter)
Stone (1 hour gun)

Example... who is Jagelis doing sentry with?
Kurt Weiss
player, 36 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Tue 20 May 2008
at 07:03
  • msg #205

Re: Map

I'm good with the pace.  We are kind of settling into our characters and group dynamic.  And there is plenty to worry about without getting shot at.

It seems most of us are tracking pretty well.  So don't sweat it too much.  As far as the CSM is concerned, he would be more than happy if we don't meet any baddies at all.  As a player, I would be okay with that, too, as long as we achieved that through roleplay.

...and do what you gotta do with the map.  Should we jack you up and just go south?  Hehe, just kidding.

Good times.
Fusilier
GM, 68 posts
Your Guide
Tue 20 May 2008
at 07:06
  • msg #206

Re: Map

Ben Jagelis:
Bridges? who needs them?
We have two amphibious vehicles, a couple of trailers and several tarps. Not a problem....


Its the trailers I am wondering about, assuming you skip the bridges.
Stone
player, 22 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Tue 20 May 2008
at 08:56
  • msg #207

Re: Map

I'm OK with the post rate.

Its good seeing a group get together and a dynamik form.

Action would be great, but not every encounter or challenge need be fight based.  I think for now its more important for the group to gell and decide on a course of action.  I'm sure action will come soon enough.
Marc St.Gil
player, 32 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Tue 20 May 2008
at 08:56
  • msg #208

Re: Map

Helmut Meyer:
Kurt, I am a little confused on the rotation. Sorry if this seems dumb, but we are doing 2 on at night correct, but only one name is listed. Assuming there is 8 hours for night sentry do we do two shifts?

Jordan (1 hour perimeter)
LT Jagelis (1 hour gun/1 hour perimeter)
CSM Weiss (1 hour gun/1 hour perimeter)
Babicevs (1 hour gun/1 hour perimeter)
Unteroffizier Meyer (1 hour gun/1 hour perimeter)
Creswick (1 hour gun/1 hour perimeter)
Kelly (1 hour gun/1 hour perimeter)
SSG Gil (1 hour gun/1 hour perimeter)
LT Boswell (1 hour gun/1 hour perimeter)
Stone (1 hour gun)

Example... who is Jagelis doing sentry with?


He has got us [except for Jordan and Stone] each taking a 2 hour shift. It works out to 2 people on at a time. One on the gun and one on the ground walking the perimeter.
This message was last edited by the player at 09:14, Tue 20 May 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 50 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 20 May 2008
at 11:08
  • msg #209

Re: Map

Helmut Meyer:
Kurt, I am a little confused on the rotation. Sorry if this seems dumb, but we are doing 2 on at night correct, but only one name is listed. Assuming there is 8 hours for night sentry do we do two shifts?

Jordan (1 hour perimeter)
LT Jagelis (1 hour gun/1 hour perimeter)
CSM Weiss (1 hour gun/1 hour perimeter)
Babicevs (1 hour gun/1 hour perimeter)

Example... who is Jagelis doing sentry with?

For the first hour, Ben is on with Jordan. for the second hour of his shift, he's with Weiss. At the end of his shift he wakes Babicevs.
It's really just a standard two person staggered although normally the first person (Jordan in this case) completes their shift right at the end in the morning (still does the same time, just split into two sections).

Note also that we don't have to do two hour shifts each. The more people we have, the shorter they need to be. If we find a few extra bodies however, it might be worth a third, or even a fourth person on picket at any one time - a 31 man infantry plattoon for example has two per section (9 men), plus one of the four members of Plt HQ (radio picket, most often carried out while snoring in my experience).
Fusilier:
Its the trailers I am wondering about, assuming you skip the bridges.

Although I've not done it, or even been around when it's done, river crossings are part of the advanced driving course for the Australian Army. I believe that preparation is key and even small trucks can be floated across rivers and lakes.

The technigue is fairly simple - wrap tarps or plastic sheets around the vehicle, paying particular attention to the lower parts. The principle is virtually the same as wrapping packs and webbing for the infantry and then using them as floation devices to rest rifles and machineguns on when swimming across.

We have it fairly easy in comparison to a vehicle. The 2 tonne cargo trailer is already shaped somewhat like a boat and just needs a little waterproofing with the tarps. The tanker on the other hand might be a bit of a problem if it's full. If it's half empty, the tank will act as it's own float and probably won't require any preparation at all.

The hard part will be finding a location where the banks on each side allow access to and from the water for the vehicles, but since we're in the lower reaches of the river valley, this shouldn't prove anywhere near as difficult as if we were up near the mountainous headwaters.
Kurt Weiss
player, 37 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Tue 20 May 2008
at 11:29
  • msg #210

Re: Map

Sorry about any confusion about my post for guard.  Marc and Ben got it.

Depending on the length of the night time hours we can slip more people into the rotation and add the second hours onto the guys who are getting hooked up right now.

I just mainly want the senior officers and drivers to be as fresh and froggy as possible...idealy with 6-8 hours uninterupted sleep.

2 hours for watch is a long time but we arn't swimming in people either.  And the more people we get, the more people we might want on watch at a time...so its a catch-22.

We can shift around the people in the middle of the rotation as well so the same guys arn't always getting hosed with a break smack in the middle of the night.  This is just a start and who knows what will happen in the next few days.  We might lose a few or gain a few more.
Ben Jagelis
player, 52 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 20 May 2008
at 11:39
  • msg #211

Re: Map

With 12 bodies, we've actually got it pretty sweet as far as picket goes. An eight hour night means just 1 & 1/2 hour shifts which will fly past.

I've had the misfortune to be in a plattoon so short staffed that we had to take two shifts each over roughly 12 hour nights in winter. Not only is sleep disrupted several times, but you've got to contend with the biting cold too!

I've also had the displeasure of really short shifts with the equally short sleep time to go with it (damn night ops!)
Ben Jagelis
player, 53 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 20 May 2008
at 11:47
  • msg #212

Stone

Stone:
M119A1 (4 mags of 7 bullets)
Skorpion (3 mags of 30 bullets)

Is that all the weapons Stone has? A .45 pistol and a very underpowered peashooter?
Stone
player, 25 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Tue 20 May 2008
at 11:51
  • msg #213

Re: Stone

Ben Jagelis:
Stone:
M119A1 (4 mags of 7 bullets)
Skorpion (3 mags of 30 bullets)

Is that all the weapons Stone has? A .45 pistol and a very underpowered peashooter?


... and a quick wit?  Plus some dry aussie humour?  That isnt doing it for you?

Stone is also killer in a mud-bath contest, fingers crossed.
Ben Jagelis
player, 54 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 20 May 2008
at 11:56
  • msg #214

Re: Stone

I think we'll need to find you something a bit better - say a sling shot?  ;)

Seriously though, even the MP-5 Kelly had (and which is now in the stores) is a better option in my opinion. Either that or just throw the weapons instead of firing - do about the same damage.
Stone
player, 26 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Tue 20 May 2008
at 12:00
  • msg #215

Re: Stone

I started out with a G3 but then i figured as a driver the skorpian was better suited to my PC.  Small, compact, easy to manouver in the confined space of a vehicle.

Stone is a good driver, and his first priority is to make sure the vehicle, its crew and passengers stay out of trouble.

If the shit goes down and he has to use his personal weapon, then its already too late.  Or the rest of the detail will be called on to protect him, much as he would do if his vehicle were still operational.

I know its not the best weapon but i think it suits my PC.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:02, Tue 20 May 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 55 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 20 May 2008
at 12:02
  • msg #216

Re: Stone

Hmmm, still, never hurts to keep something useful nearby.
Might have to borrow something anytime he leaves the drivers seat and wants to join the fun. For example, there's no way he'd be allowed out of the camp with Ben with only those two toys.
Marc St.Gil
player, 34 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Tue 20 May 2008
at 17:10
  • msg #217

Re: Stone

Yeah, he would definatly want something with a bit more rspect than the scorpion, though as an "all I can grab when I bail" it is a fair option. The MP5 is pretty compact, it might be a better option.
Drivers and gunners really need something compact for bailout, but when walking patrol those are not the best choices. I have a M177 carbine for bailing out, but I carry a SAW for walking around. If we need to switch stuff around you are welcome to the M177 until you find something more to your liking.
I have no doubt that a variety of gear will turn up fairly quickly.
Ben Jagelis
player, 56 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 20 May 2008
at 23:59
  • msg #218

Re: Stone

On the occasions I was working with APCs, the crew were issued with L1A1 SLRs, or rarely, an old F1 SMG, which was slung on the outside of their hatch. In this way the weapons size isn't really an issue as it's not actually required to fit through the hatch.
Fusilier
GM, 71 posts
Your Guide
Wed 21 May 2008
at 08:50
  • msg #219

Re: Stone

--Subtracted MRE's for lunch. I supplemented the consumption with the wild food which was rationed.

--Moving the hide didn't matter since everyone dismounted, but I need to know where Creswick and Varis are squeezing into for the seating.
Ben Jagelis
player, 58 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 21 May 2008
at 23:59
  • msg #220

Re: Stone

I suggest they both go into the M2 to round out the dismounts. To me it doesn't make a lot of sense to spread our combat power too much (even if several of the dismounts aren't actually combat troops).
I'm also thinking that Weiss might need to swap with Gideon at some point if the dismounts don't perform in combat as well as we might hope. Ben also may need to swap, possibly with Boswell (although in that case I'd be happier with Gideon in the M113 commanders seat).

The large amount of internal stores in the M113 plays a big part in my assessment too. With all that gear, it's going to be difficult to "debus" (exit) the vehicle quickly, although with both vehicles towing trailers, that may be a problem in both.
Ben Jagelis
player, 60 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Thu 22 May 2008
at 00:31
  • msg #221

Re: Stone

quote:
"Your arc of responsibility is from here," Ben pointed out a tree, rock outcropping, or some other point of reference with an extended arm. "to here."

The sentries as posted IC would be placed so as to cover from 7-11 o'clock, 10-2 and 1-5.
The remaining arc towards the south and across the water (5-7) is the responsibility of the fishing party to keep an eye on.
Everyone else remaining at the harbour (proper name for a military units campsite) is to keep an eye on the local area, unless they've got their head burried in an engine, etc. This simply entails sitting with your back towards the centre of the harbour while conducting the activity of the moment (weapon cleaning, cooking, and so on).

Note also that Ben's sentry briefings as posted are really just a summary of the full thing - in reality there's a bit more detail which I've left out as it's not essential to the game itself (although definately carried out).
Fusilier
GM, 73 posts
Your Guide
Fri 23 May 2008
at 04:20
  • msg #222

Fishing

Who is on the fishing crew?
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:02, Fri 23 May 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 62 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 23 May 2008
at 04:57
  • msg #223

Re: Fishing

Only St Gil and Meyer are fishing.
Creswick, Kelly and Babicevs are on sentry.
Stone and Jordan are working on the vehicles.
Gideon is placing her charges and digging a latrine.
McCarthy, Weiss, Boswell and Ben are standing about talking.

St Gil and Meyer are responsible for security in the 5-7 o'clock arc out over the water although with the flank sentries placed by Ben this shouldn't be too hard a task.

The sentries will be changed after about an hour with the "command group" most likely having to take their turn. Anyone left at the vehicles and not working on them will be responsible for the security of the immediate area as well as any general work such as digging fighting pits, preparing mush for the still, etc.
This message was last edited by the player at 05:07, Fri 23 May 2008.
Fusilier
GM, 74 posts
Your Guide
Fri 23 May 2008
at 05:01
  • msg #224

Re: Fishing

Ooops. I guess I worded that poorly. I didn't mean 'was everyone in the entire group going fishing' - I meant are Meyer and St.Gil the only ones going?

But your answer confirmed everything anyways.
Ben Jagelis
player, 64 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 24 May 2008
at 12:15
  • msg #225

Re: Fishing

Note that both the Major and Ben are in constant contact via radio. Meyer also appears to carry a tactic radio.
Also remember that the sentry at 12 o'clock was issued the majors manpack radio so it's presumed that Ben and the Major would be currently located near tyhe shoreline with Weiss at the 12 o'clock position.
Of course none of this is all that important as the 2IC, Captain Gideon, is still with the vehicles and available for discussion....
Fusilier
GM, 76 posts
Your Guide
Sun 25 May 2008
at 05:35
  • msg #226

Re: Fishing

Besides the two drivers, can somebody clarify/confirm who is doing what? Who is in the scouting party, and who is remaining with the vehicles... I just want to be sure.
Marc St.Gil
player, 39 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Sun 25 May 2008
at 06:00
  • msg #227

Re: Fishing

The last I saw Stone and Jordon are the drivers and Meyer and I are gunners. At a bare minimum we would be in the vehicles. It is possible one of the officers might be staying behind to "command" [Lt Boswell or Gideon] but it sounds like everyone else is dismounting and heading out.
Jennifer Gideon
player, 25 posts
Captain: Royal Engineers
"Blue wire Red wire hmm!"
Sun 25 May 2008
at 08:30
  • msg #228

Re: Fishing

Unless ordered otherwise Gideon will stay with the Vehicles.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 30 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sun 25 May 2008
at 08:50
  • msg #229

Re: Fishing

I'm assuming the following:
4 crew in the vehicles + Gideon
Jagelis and 2 scouts: Point team
Everyone else dismounted and behind the point ready to back it up.
Ben Jagelis
player, 65 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sun 25 May 2008
at 12:31
  • msg #230

Re: Fishing

Meyer is no longer a gunner. He was originally the M2 gunner, but as St Gil is better qualified was transfered to dismounts.
The M113 only has two crewmembers - driver and commander.
Fusilier
GM, 77 posts
Your Guide
Sun 25 May 2008
at 13:00
  • msg #231

Re: Fishing

John Jameson McCarthy:
I'm assuming the following:
4 crew in the vehicles + Gideon
Jagelis and 2 scouts: Point team
Everyone else dismounted and behind the point ready to back it up.


I'll go with this. If anyone wants to adjust their PCs spot, I'll edit it in.
Ben Jagelis
player, 66 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sun 25 May 2008
at 13:34
  • msg #232

Re: Fishing

Ben will be picking Meyer and Weiss as the two scouts. Had a big post done up but computer crashed and I don't have time at the moment to retype it.
Will also ask for the Majors tac radio for Weiss and suggest everyone else remain with the vehicles and prepare to leave.
Ben's commanders seat will need filling while he's away.
Kurt Weiss
player, 42 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sun 25 May 2008
at 13:57
  • msg #233

Re: Fishing

You know, I am pretty sure I have a tactical radio of my own.  At least I am pretty sure it got approved on my personal inventory.  I am not sure if it showed up in group stores though.

Also, we need to replace Meyer on the .50 if we are taking him on the patrol.  I can see already we are gonna have to do some crash courses on our equipment.
Fusilier
GM, 78 posts
Your Guide
Sun 25 May 2008
at 15:54
  • msg #234

Re: Fishing

Kurt Weiss:
You know, I am pretty sure I have a tactical radio of my own.  At least I am pretty sure it got approved on my personal inventory.  I am not sure if it showed up in group stores though.


It was approved and placed into your inventory... a short ranged tactical (0.5km Hand Radio).
Ben Jagelis
player, 67 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 26 May 2008
at 01:51
  • msg #235

Re: Fishing

ARGH! It's Ben who's normally on the .50 as the M113 gunner/commander.
St Gil is gunner of the M2 and McCarthy is in the unarmed (or should be according to normal weapon layout of the M2) commanders position.

Note: According to everything I've been able to find (which could of course be wrong), the M2 Commander can take control of the M2's weapons from his position.

At this time (without reading IC thread), only Ben needs to be replaced at the M113 commanders position. Two extra people may be reassigned to the cargo hatch mounted weapon positions in the M113 also (at least one M60 is located there I believe).


Is there anyone else with radios? At this time, we appear to only have the following (not including vehicles):
McCarthy (1/6km Secure)
McCarthy (Short ranged tactical)
Jagelis  (Short ranged tactical)
Meyer    (Short ranged tactical)
Weiss    (Short ranged tactical)
Note that the 1/6km secure is a manpack and weighs a good 10+ kg (depending on model, etc) and therefore not something we'd prefer to have to lug about too much.
Helmut Meyer
player, 51 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Mon 26 May 2008
at 03:23
  • msg #236

Re: Fishing

How close are we moving up? I assumed to the treeline on the top of the hill... around the upper center of the photo.
Fusilier
GM, 80 posts
Your Guide
Mon 26 May 2008
at 03:27
  • msg #237

Re: Fishing

Ben Jagelis:
Is there anyone else with radios? At this time, we appear to only have the following (not including vehicles):
McCarthy (1/6km Secure)
McCarthy (Short ranged tactical)
Jagelis  (Short ranged tactical)
Meyer    (Short ranged tactical)
Weiss    (Short ranged tactical)

Unless I missed one, thats it for carried radios. Each vehicle has one too but thats it for lightweight tacticals.
Ben Jagelis
player, 69 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 26 May 2008
at 03:32
  • msg #238

Re: Fishing

Helmut Meyer:
How close are we moving up? I assumed to the treeline on the top of the hill... around the upper center of the photo.

As far as you're comfortable with. You're the stealth expert....   ;)
Ben Jagelis
player, 73 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 28 May 2008
at 01:22
  • msg #239

The move

Fusilier:
Not sure how far the players want me to advance things at this point. I'll see how it goes and maybe push things up a bit if it seems like people don't have much interest at this stage of the move.

In the interests of not bogging down in detail, move along until something happens - ie an encounter.
Crossing obstacles, etc is performed as a drill which all infantry and armour trained characters can probably do in their sleep. These obstacles as previously posted, will slow us down a bit, but there's really little need to RP the details of actually doing it.
I think it might also be an idea to move as soon as we're ready (which is probably as soon as about 10 minutes after the recce patrol returns to the harbour) - little point in waiting while the person we observed is calling in the cavalry via radio....
Moving in daylight will be a little more risky than at night, but not significantly so. It's far more likely we'll be detected by noise than vision no matter when we're moving - tracked vehicles are LOUD!
Fusilier
GM, 84 posts
Your Guide
Wed 28 May 2008
at 01:41
  • msg #240

Re: The move

Ben Jagelis:
I think it might also be an idea to move as soon as we're ready (which is probably as soon as about 10 minutes after the recce patrol returns to the harbour) - little point in waiting while the person we observed is calling in the cavalry via radio....


My understanding was that McCarthy wanted a night move. I can edit the post though if the plan is to move out earlier.
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:42, Wed 28 May 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 74 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 28 May 2008
at 02:03
  • msg #241

Re: The move

Doesn't really matter I suppose, but my thoughts are we're better to move on quickly before any potential response to our presence arrives.
Ben Jagelis
player, 75 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 28 May 2008
at 03:31
  • msg #242

M2

Helmut Meyer:
The Bradley doesn't have passenger roof hatches does it?
FAS:
When facing heavier enemy armor the Bradley relies on the TOW Anti-Tank Missile, manufactured by the Hughes Aircraft. Launched from a smooth tube launcher, the missile’s wings and tail fins are folded inside its body until launch. Two of these missiles are carried ready to fire in a collapsible, armored launch rack on the left of the turret. The Bradley must stop in order to fire these missiles, which are them reloaded by the Infantrymen in the back of the vehicle, using a special hatch which provides armor protection during the reload operation.

That any help?
Marc St.Gil
player, 40 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Wed 28 May 2008
at 03:40
  • msg #243

Re: M2

Here is a good short video on the bradley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2x7C-ONs3U

It gives a few details and shows the inside, not bad for a quick overview. It may help folks get a better idea what it is like inside.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:52, Wed 28 May 2008.
Marc St.Gil
player, 41 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Wed 28 May 2008
at 04:05
  • msg #244

Re: M113

Here is a video of the M113. Again, gives an idea of the inside and the size.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...&feature=related
Ben Jagelis
player, 77 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 28 May 2008
at 06:25
  • msg #245

Re: M113

Can we have the M60 moved from the M2 over to the M113? I think it was posted somewhere a while back that this would be best mounted at the passenger roof hatch. Either that or I'd posted before Weiss joined the M113 crew that it should be in the M2....

:S
Fusilier
GM, 85 posts
Your Guide
Wed 28 May 2008
at 10:08
  • msg #246

Re: M113

I moved the passengers around to how I think most have suggested.

Weiss switch to Bradley
Gideon switch to M113

Babicevs to Bradley
Creswick to M113.

Everyone else is where they were.

This keeps the possible dismounts in one vehicle and splits up the medics.
Next post I'll get us moving.
This message was last edited by the GM at 10:15, Wed 28 May 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 79 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 28 May 2008
at 10:33
  • msg #247

Re: M113

quote:
Machine gun armor shield kits are available for the commander's cupola and rear cargo hatch. The rear shields each allow for a pintle-mounted machine gun.

I'm hoping the side shields came with the cupola.
Ben Jagelis
player, 81 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Thu 29 May 2008
at 07:19
  • msg #248

M2 commander

Can anyone confirm my belief that in the US army the M2 commander often dismounts with the infantry?
Kurt Weiss
player, 47 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Thu 29 May 2008
at 14:56
  • msg #249

Re: M2 commander

I've never been mech except when I was operating as part of a Soviet Motorized Rifle Regiment as OPFOR at CMTC almost a decade ago. (M113 representing a BMP3, just a TC and Driver, no dismounts unless we had augmentees)

From what I understand, the senior Team Leader is the Track Commander with his 'team' of driver and gunner.  The Squad Leader dismounts with the junior Team Leader and the rest of the squad members.  It's a bit different from a light infantry squad.  The junior Team Leader and Squad Leader each have an Automatic Rifleman and Grenadier directly under them.

I can tell you better in a couple of months when I go to my Bradley Leader's Course.  I have been essentially light and airborne my whole career.  I have recently gotten orders to go to a mechanized unit and will become very intimate with these bad boys by the end of the summer.
Ben Jagelis
player, 82 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 30 May 2008
at 01:28
  • msg #250

Re: M2 commander

http://www.globalsecurity.org/...3-21-71/ch1.htm#par7
quote:
a.   Platoon Leader.   The platoon leader bears the responsibility for all that the platoon does or fails to do. This includes the tactical employment, collective training, administration, personnel management, and logistics of his platoon. He must know his soldiers and how to employ the platoon and its weapons. He bears personal responsibility for positioning and employment of all assigned or attached weapons. His list of responsibilities and duties are as follows:

Leads the platoon in supporting the company and battalion missions. Bases his actions on the mission the company commander assigns him, the concepts of the company and battalion commanders, and his own estimate of the situation.
Sets the example and the standards.
Normally dismounts when the situation causes the platoon to dismount.
Serves as BC when mounted.
Informs the commander of his actions when operating without orders.
Plans operations with the help of the platoon sergeant, section leaders, squad leaders, and other key personnel.
Stays abreast of the situation and goes where needed to supervise, issue FRAGOs, and accomplish the mission.
Requests from the company commander any support needed to help the platoon perform its mission.
Helps the platoon sergeant plan and coordinate CSS for the platoon.
Receives on-hand status reports from the platoon sergeant, section leaders and squad leaders during planning.
Reviews platoon requirements based on the tactical plan.
Develops the fire support plan with the platoon sergeant, section leaders, and squad leaders.
Coordinates the obstacle plan.
Analyzes tactical situations, disseminates and filters information, and employs the full capabilities of his platoon's equipment (digital or analog) to accomplish the mission.
Manages C2 information.
Ensures SITREPs are accurately prepared and sent forward to the company commander.
Analyzes, and then disseminates to subordinates, pertinent tactical friendly and enemy updates.
Employs all available assets during limited visibility to designate targets for the direct- and indirect-fire weapons and for situational updates.
quote:
e.   Bradley Commander.   The platoon leader, platoon sergeant, and the two section leaders serve as the Bradley commander for their BFVs. In the platoon leader's absence (when dismounted), his gunner assumes the responsibilities of the BC. The BC, who remains mounted,—

Acquires targets.
Commands the vehicle relative to the section and platoon.
Controls vehicle fires.
Ensures the welfare of the crew.
Holds the vehicle's position in platoon formations.
Issues fire commands.
Lays the gun for deflection.
Maintains the BFV hull and turret.
Maintains the BFV weapon systems.
Monitors his CTD for vehicle position, digital overlays, and digital reports (in FBCB2-equipped units).
Navigates correctly.
Sends SITREPs as requested or when the vehicle makes contact
Trains soldiers to use weapons.

f.   Bradley Gunner.   The gunner observes the battlefield to detect enemy targets. He operates the turret weapons as directed by the BC to engage and destroy targets. When only two men remain in the BFV, which occurs rarely, he serves as BC. He bears the responsibility for performing unit-level maintenance on the turret and its weapons systems. He also helps with navigation and with radio operation.

It appears that the only Commander that usually dismounts is the Plattoon leader - commanders of the other three M2s in a standard plattoon stay aboard.
In our case, we could go either way - With two vehicles, McCarthy could be considered the plattoon commander, but then we only have two vehicles, so.....

My opinion is it's his choice.
Ethan Creswick
player, 8 posts
E4 Sergeant
Combat Medical Tech, RAMC
Fri 30 May 2008
at 04:40
  • msg #251

Re: M2 commander

Sorry for being a touch AWOL, I didn't expect quite the posting rate I was deluged with, but I am redoubling efforts to keep on top of it.

As far as I know, I am traveling on the M113, correct?
Ben Jagelis
player, 83 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 30 May 2008
at 04:49
  • msg #252

Creswick

Yes. See message 246 this thread.
Therefore he's unable to speak directly with the newcomer and probably hasn't even been able to get a good look at them due to the several dozen metres (at least) of darkness between the vehicles.
Even Ben up in the commanders hatch and wearing NVGs probably hasn't seen more than a vague outline, etc.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:51, Fri 30 May 2008.
Ethan Creswick
player, 9 posts
E4 Sergeant
Combat Medical Tech, RAMC
Fri 30 May 2008
at 13:50
  • msg #253

Re: Creswick

Wow, that's awesome, I'm two mistakes for two posts, lol.  One more and I am relieving myself. :P
Kurt Weiss
player, 49 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Fri 30 May 2008
at 15:06
  • msg #254

Re: Creswick

Don't relieve yourself in the vehicle.  Wait til it stops, get out and do it by a tree or something...we have a female that might take offense.  ;)
Fusilier
GM, 91 posts
Your Guide
Sat 31 May 2008
at 10:24
  • msg #255

Speed

If the decision is made to go on ahead, please let me know if it is at normal combat speed or faster?
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 38 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sat 31 May 2008
at 11:39
  • msg #256

Re: Speed

We'll go as quickly as the M113 can safely manage and we'll pay attention to the Bradley's engine in case it can't take the strain.
Fusilier
GM, 92 posts
Your Guide
Sat 31 May 2008
at 12:16
  • msg #257

Re: Speed

Top normal combat speed then right? Opposed to absolute maximum combat speed. Ok. Hope I make sense here.

M113 for example has a combat move of 30/20.
But it can do up to three times that that if risked.

You are not in combat at the moment, but I was just trying to get an idea of how fast you planned on getting through.
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:21, Sat 31 May 2008.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 39 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sat 31 May 2008
at 13:36
  • msg #258

Re: Speed

Top normal combat speed for the M113 will be fine.
Ben Jagelis
player, 84 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 31 May 2008
at 15:27
  • msg #259

Re: Speed

Jennifer Gideon:
Gideon listened carefully then said,
"We'd better get ready, sounds like something's up ahead. Get ready to bail out folks. If we get the order to dismount I want us all ready to go. I'd suggest you take packs. If the vehicle, fate forbid get's hit we'll need the gear more than ever."

Note that Jen is currently in the M113 along with Creswick, Jordan and Ben. The four of us have not heard Arthurs information, nor are we privy to current discussions.
The good news is that the M113 comes equipped with four headsets linking into the intercom and radio - only one system at a time can be used however. If somebody forgets to toggle the switch back to neutral after speaking over the intercom, the radio transmission cannot take place (although from memory (13+ years old) I think incomming messages can be still heard).

Note also that it's extremely bad practise to speak "in the clear" over the radio. Messages should be as short as possible cutting straight to the point. amazing how much intelligence can be gleaned just by listening to radio chatter.
Varis Babicevs
player, 10 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Sat 31 May 2008
at 21:56
  • msg #260

Re: Speed


Does the Bradley have any of its firing port weapons? They've probably be stripped for use elsewhere ages ago but I thought I'd ask.

The Bradley does not have roof hatches, correct? Varis is about to have a panic attack.
Fusilier
GM, 93 posts
Your Guide
Sun 1 Jun 2008
at 03:26
  • msg #261

Re: Speed

Varis Babicevs:
Does the Bradley have any of its firing port weapons? They've probably be stripped for use elsewhere ages ago but I thought I'd ask.

The Bradley does not have roof hatches, correct? Varis is about to have a panic attack.


Sorry removed for use elsewhere.

It has a small hatch for reloading the TOW. It is not as practical as the roof hatches on the Marder, M113, or other vehicles though.
Kurt Weiss
player, 51 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sun 1 Jun 2008
at 05:37
  • msg #262

Re: Speed

I would imagine you could still use the ports, you just have to provide your own weapon.

Also, yes, with the CVC comm toggle centered you still hear all comm's chatter on your net.  Back to talk to driver, forward to talk on net.  Most TCs have a spare handset for the other radio as most will carry two.  I don't think that is the case with us, though.

Also, I would be curious to see anything regarding the installment of a .50 and/or M60 on the turret of a Bradley.  I have never seen it done and I have not found any pictures with that configuration.  Then again, I had also never seen a M113 with the armor plates for the rear hatch or mounts for weapons back there...so you might surprise me again.
Helmut Meyer
player, 62 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sun 1 Jun 2008
at 05:47
  • msg #263

Re: Speed

Kurt Weiss:
I would imagine you could still use the ports, you just have to provide your own weapon.


I think the book states that only the M231s can be used.
Fusilier
GM, 95 posts
Your Guide
Sun 1 Jun 2008
at 05:53
  • msg #264

Re: Speed

The game is a month old and 500 posts in. I'd like to thank everyone for their interest, input, and patience. Its a small but important milestone for me. I hope there are many more.

As mentioned, I had some action planned but you guys like playing it safe it seems (a good thing). Sometime today I will put up the next post, early. I think we could use a little action to maintain the interest.
Kurt Weiss
player, 52 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sun 1 Jun 2008
at 06:12
  • msg #265

Re: Speed

Action isn't required to maintain my interest.  If sound decision making gets us all the way to Kaliningrad, or where ever we are heading, keeps us from getting shot at, I think we could call that an astounding success.

Tense situations count in my book as action.  So far we have encountered two tense situations and come out on top.  I'm good with that.  :)
Helmut Meyer
player, 63 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sun 1 Jun 2008
at 06:27
  • msg #266

Re: Speed

Kurt Weiss:
Action isn't required to maintain my interest.  If sound decision making gets us all the way to Kaliningrad, or where ever we are heading, keeps us from getting shot at, I think we could call that an astounding success.

Tense situations count in my book as action.  So far we have encountered two tense situations and come out on top.  I'm good with that.  :)


Agreed with Kurt. We are not going to play reckless behind enemy lines so I see this as our reward. I guess its one of the drawbacks of online playing... after a couple weeks of playing there hasn't been any combat - yet it hasn't been a full day past so it isn't actually unreasonable.

I have no complaints. Its better than fighting your way through every encounter. Besides if we really were desperate for action, we know how to go looking for it, easy.
Marc St.Gil
player, 45 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Sun 1 Jun 2008
at 07:12
  • msg #267

Re: Speed

Yep, I'll ad a third to that. We are cut off in if'y IFV's, we will definatly end up in fights no matter what we do, we are just playing it smart for now.
I would say we are going good so far. Two encounters with new people and the farmhouse for potential suspense.
Stone
player, 38 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Sun 1 Jun 2008
at 10:26
  • msg #268

Re: Speed

The potential for trouble is often as much fun as the trouble itself.

If we're making good decisions to avoid trouble, more luck to us!

Agreed, we're only a few hours into a game day, and not every day would be full of action ... but T2K days always have a way of going pear shaped :-)
Ben Jagelis
player, 86 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sun 1 Jun 2008
at 14:25
  • msg #269

Re: Speed

Grrr, I had a huge post all ready and one small bump of the mouse and it's all gone!

Anyway, to summarise cause I can't be bothered writing it up again, by my estimation, the only weapons we currently have that may fit in the M2's firing ports are the M4 and M177 carbines but even they might be too long to fire comfortably or accurately.

With the lack of anyone in the game with personal experience and the actual vehicle manuals still restricted access, that's probably the best guess we can make for the moment. Every other weapon is either too long, barrel too short to safely fire, or has too many obstructions on the business end of the barrel to fit into the port in the first place (take the foresight of an AK-74 for example).

Note also that the fume extractors should be operating when firing port weapons or the occupants will end up gasing themselves.
Marc St.Gil
player, 47 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Sun 1 Jun 2008
at 20:35
  • msg #270

Re: Speed

Nope, the M4 and M177 don't fit the ports, at least not stock. When we get the opportunity we may want to modify the ports or see if we can find some M231's sitting around some where or find something we dont mind converting for just suppression work.

Also, I do have some experience in the Bradley. I have not spoken up with firm answers on a couple of your questions because of a couple of things. First I was that my experience was peripheral. I spent my time in an Abrams and worked with the Bradleys but I Armor not a Scout. Second I was in the Marine Corps not the Army, which changes the SOP a bit. I have been in and around them, it just wasnt my main thing. It was also about 15 years ago, so sometimes the mind plays tricks.

Most of the small stuff is flexible. Part of the T2000 seting is making do with what you have not having air support and a devision to back you up. If the GM wants us to be able to shoot out the ports we can. If he wants us to have to work for the ability we will have to look for solutions.

Heck, in my experience we are lucky to have as many people in this game as we do with any past experience. :) Makes it a lot easyer to figure things out.
Ben Jagelis
player, 89 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 2 Jun 2008
at 02:16
  • msg #271

Re: Speed

Peripheral knowledge is better than none! I'm in a similar situation in that while I was infantry, much of our work was dismounted or motorised (trucks and landrovers rather than APCs) and the APCs were modified M113's (.50 and .30 cal machineguns in a one man powered turret. I believe they were basically A1 models with an upgrade to A3 equivalent having taken place during the mid to late 90's (after I left).
Reading through the available PAMs (training manuals) online, I've seen many differences in operational SOPs, not just between the Australian and US Army, but between how the M2 and M113 equipped units are supposed to operate. With the M2, it seems that soldiers are very much crew members while with the M113, they're treated more like passengers with duties well removed from the actual operation of the vehicle - definately more of a "battle taxi" arrangement.
Ben Jagelis
player, 90 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 2 Jun 2008
at 02:48
  • msg #272

Re: Speed

Arthur Fox:
"...pact forces listened in on this little chatter you had. We're getting closer to their HQ every minute we drive. That means more organised and I gamble more radio's and scanners"

Note that there are litterally tens, if not hundreds of thousands of frequencies in military usage. The chance of stumbling upon a radio conversation is very remote.

This is not to say impossible however. With decent scanning devices, etc it only takes a moment or two to find out which frequencies are in use. Even scarier, it takes just a fraction of a second for the location of the transmitter to be DF'ed (Direction Finder), plotted on a virtual map and the coordinates passed on to available artillery units. If all goes well, 152mm HE can be raining down around a transmitter less than 30 seconds from transmission.  :(

Good for us it's T2K and the vast majority of this technology is worth little more than landfill (EMP, etc)
Arthur Fox:
"May I suggest, dropping me of when you are leaving the road. I might be able to cover up the trails we leave behind. Might give the pact forces a harder time tracking us. What do you think?"

Hmm, not sure if that would be all that possible. Tracks tend to leave, well, tracks..... Big, ugly, easily followable tracks, even a blind man in the dark can follow. A team of horticulturists with a backhoe and truckload of new turf would have difficulty erasing the traces.
Even on roads they tend to leave marks although I believe some vehicles are issued with rubber tracks to help prevent damaging the bitumen/concrete. Don't know how long this much softer material lasts in operational conditions though...
Kurt Weiss
player, 53 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Mon 2 Jun 2008
at 03:52
  • msg #273

Comms and such

A few things are covered here, so bear with me...

Are the vehicle radios unsecure?  That would strike me as strange if they were.  Manpacks would be one thing to have unsecure, but vehicle radios I would think would almost always be secure, or at least capable of security.  Of course modern technology is different from what we had back in the early 90s, but even back then, every vehicle radio I saw had a Vinson (KY-57) attached to its radio or had been upgraded to a SINCGAR capable of carrying a 'fill'.

As far as getting artillery rounds on target within 30 seconds, I do not think it likely.  More like 3-7 minutes.  Unless they have the guns prepositioned on our grid which is highly unlikely.  Even with a Target Reference Point (TRP) you are looking at the 3 minute mark...and they have potential friendlies nearby it seems.  They probably don't want to drop 152mm willy nilly on their regimental food production (the local farms).

As far as the movement is concerned and the possibility of being tracked...well, we will just have to be extra vigilant for a day or two and keep moving as often as we can.  And actually, depending on how we made our first move off road, a little effort on the transition between the road and off road movement might actually go a long way.  At least initially.  I have been on certain types of terrain that does not leave that significant a trail unless you are really beating it up on purpose.  With the recent rains, however, that becomes more difficult.

I foresee us having to eventually destroy the Bradley, and possibly the M113, in place.  'Cuz I tell you what, I do not like the idea of sitting around for a few weeks waiting on fuel for it when we could be moving on foot a good 30km/day.
Fusilier
GM, 96 posts
Your Guide
Mon 2 Jun 2008
at 05:42
  • msg #274

Re: Comms and such

The 2 vehicle radios are both unsecured - either thats how they were originally or thats the radio that was replaced for various reasons. Only McCarthy has a secure model. While it is possible that DF units may be attempting to locate radio signals... keeping them short and other precautions will prevent any trouble.
Ben Jagelis
player, 91 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 2 Jun 2008
at 05:54
  • msg #275

Re: Comms and such

I had an ex navy comms specialist in my plattoon back in the early nineties, just repeating pretty much what they were saying. Rounds on target in that time might seem quick, but it's essentially the same technology as antiaircraft systems - radar, etc detects a threat and a few heatbeats later the sky is full of HE with the odd missile thrown in for luck....  ;)
Naturally field artillery takes a little time to reposition if the target is not in the primary arc. If the battery is self propelled, that time required to reorientate would drastically reduce. Even so, a battery would need to be laid close to target to begin with to achieve that sort of speedy response - thankfully. On the other hand, the first anybody on the recieving end is likely to know about it is when they hear the screaming of the incomming shells. Reaction time isn't likely to matter much if the transmitter is stationary. :S
Kurt Weiss:
I have been on certain types of terrain that does not leave that significant a trail unless you are really beating it up on purpose.  With the recent rains, however, that becomes more difficult.

I agree that there is terrain that doesn't hold tracks too well, even when a 30+ tonne vehicle moves over it at speed. Unfortunately, it appears that we are now in alluvial farmland - nothing but nice soft sediment covered with knee or even waist high crops and grasses. If only it were winter!
Kurt Weiss:
I foresee us having to eventually destroy the Bradley, and possibly the M113, in place.  'Cuz I tell you what, I do not like the idea of sitting around for a few weeks waiting on fuel for it when we could be moving on foot a good 30km/day.

I hope not! A second, or even third class ride is always better than a first class walk!

I beleive that it's quite possible that methanol will be relatively easy to acquire. Just about any farmer is likely to have a still of some sort in their shed processing their wastes into a tradable comodity. Even if they don't have any machinery requiring fuel themselves, it doesn't take all that much effort to feed a still if you're surrounded with the materials - old straw from animal pens, animal wastes, kitchen scraps, etc could all take a turn through the still before being thrown on a compost heap. Sure it's unlikely we'd be able to pick up more than a few dozen litres from any one farm, but a few hours trading should fill our tanks with little effort.
Unless we happen to be following in the path of a large military unit that's stripped the land like a locust plague.  :(
Kurt Weiss
player, 54 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Mon 2 Jun 2008
at 06:19
  • msg #276

Re: Comms and such

At 35 liters a day...I would rather walk than sit in one place for that long.

A first class walk is better than being in one place for too long waiting on your second or third class ride.

If we can get large quantities quickly, I am all about riding the whole way there.  If not, I'm hoofing it.
________________________________

A dry summer is as good as winter for hardening the ground.  Unfortunately, that isn't what we got.  At least at the moment.
________________________________

I am not worried about artillery unless there is an FO active plotting our movement or if we sit around in one spot too long or both.  Fixing us in 30 seconds is one thing, actually getting rounds on top of us in that time is quite another.  I know that the standard for artillery for rounds on target in the US Army is 7 minutes for most fire missions with the best gun teams achieving about 3 minutes.  We are making efforts to move to 3 minutes as the standard but we arn't there yet.  The Q36, or equivalent, is a great system, but knowing where the baddies are compared to actually killing them has a significant lag time.  Stay moving and you are good.  I trained against it when I was OPFOR for 2 years.  All we did was move after we fired our mortars and we were good.  We knew we had a few minutes.
Fusilier
GM, 98 posts
Your Guide
Mon 2 Jun 2008
at 06:43
  • msg #277

Re: Comms and such

Keep in mind the state of affairs for the armies. Valuable artillery rounds are not likely to be expended on unknown radio transmissions. Unless the enemy is actively hunting the party with all assets - I think the most you will have to worry about it them sending people after you / ambush ahead if they can plot the route. Arty usage I would expect for identified and important targets.
Ben Jagelis
player, 93 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 2 Jun 2008
at 07:04
  • msg #278

Re: Comms and such

Absolutely. Artillery is the least of our worries. There's a higher probability of us coming under air attack! (at least pilots can see what they're shooting at a bit better).

Our biggest threat is simply giving away out location and path of travel. Once an enemy has that, setting up an ambush for us becomes one hell of a lot easier and more likely. It doesn't take antiarmour weapons to stop us either. A couple of well placed trees fallen across the road will likely do it, followed by an infantry assault while we try to clear it, retrace our path (lkely blocked also as soon as we pass), or head off road (although if positioned correctly, the roadsides should be either steep inclines, or big ditches to keep us on the straight and narrow).

To my infantry mind, following roads, tracks and paths are just asking for trouble. In the right terrain, even an animal track can be a very good location to set up an ambush.
Ben Jagelis
player, 95 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 3 Jun 2008
at 05:17
  • msg #279

Re: Comms and such

Stone:
20 minutes!

Nut, lets leave it.
Even loaded with about the most important peice of equipment we have? We'd be mad to leave the still behind.
This does raise an important issue though - it's not just the vehicles that require regular maintenance.
Kurt Weiss
player, 56 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Tue 3 Jun 2008
at 05:29
  • msg #280

Re: Comms and such

The still produces 35 liters of fuel a day.  That is something we can get rid of in my book.  With the vehicles we have, it is practically worthless.  If we didn't have such gas hogs, I would argue differently.  But, alas, we are saddled with guzzlers.
Ben Jagelis
player, 97 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 3 Jun 2008
at 06:36
  • msg #281

The still

The damage is minor and the time may be less than estimated. It is the middle of the night and it will probably take quite some time for the locals to report the situation to nearby military units. Chances are, the farmer in the house off in the distance will not even bother until next time they go to market - calling in the army is almost an open invite to have his stock and food stores "taxed".

While 35 litres a day isn't much, it could be the difference between capture and escape. 35 litres a day equals 245 a week, enough to run the M2 for nearly an hour and a half and travel a very substantial distance. Sure it's slower than walking 8 hours + every day for a week, but on foot we're extremely limited in what we can carry. Food alone for a week weighs in at around 14kg. Add in weapons, ammo, water (refillable one would hope daily), shelter, a change of clothing, radios, NVGs, etc, etc, etc, and some of the weaker members of the party will barely be able to move.

I speak from my experience as a foot mobile infantryman. I was aproximately 65kg at the time and my normal load was around the 50kg mark. Even after dropping packs for combat, I still had to haul around about 30 of those very heavy kilograms. Can anyone see Boswell or Captain Gideon managing that? What about the medics Creswick and Kelly, or vehicle crew, unused to actually walking anywhere?

Anyone who's ever been a soldier will agree that carrying full marching order (weapons, webbing, pack, etc) is something to be avoided, almost at all costs. Keeping the trailer and especially the still on it, is therefore a very, very high priority inspite of it's perceived inefficiency.
Marc St.Gil
player, 50 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Tue 3 Jun 2008
at 07:11
  • msg #282

Re: The still

I am going to have to kick in my 2p woth here as well. There are good points on both sides of this.

The M2 is in poor shape, it and the M113 are gas hogs, they restrict where we can go and how often we can go. Yep all true.

The vehicles let us move very quickly when we have to in an emergency, that would be tactical speed as apposed to strategic. They let us carry a lot of ammo and gear that we may need, it sucks to run out of bullets or food. They let us recharge the batteries on out night gear, radios, and flashlights. They carry the big guns that let us project the image that we are to dangerous to mess with. Yep, all true.

Anyone who thinks they can carry a combat load out, plus survival gear, plus whatever nicknacks they dont want to give up and still walk 30km a day have been taking math classes from the same guys that were counting casulties in Niet Nam. On foot you are limited to a very small amount of gear with no easy resupply in sight. When trying to move in a group with not everyone in "grade a snake eater condition" that slows you down. When trying to remain hidden cause you are a small group with only small arms and no support it slows you down. When foraging for food it slows you down. Yep, all true.

Without steady resupply and gas availability people on foot can potentially move faster than vehicles or horses. Historically infantry moved faster than cavalry if they had good roads or clear terrain. It is easyer for people on foot to hide in cover than IFV's. People on foot don't attract as much attention as IFV's. Yep, all true.

What do you know, both sides have good points.

Personally I think the rides have been worth the effort so far in our less than 24 hours on the road. Personally I think that spending 15-20 minutes to straighten up a trailer and jurryrig a conection is not to long to wait for a major portion of our equipment when we are not in the middle of a fight and with out good reason to think we are about to get jumped. Then again I don't like walking carrying a 50-100 pound pack, but that's just me. :)
Fusilier
GM, 100 posts
Your Guide
Tue 3 Jun 2008
at 08:40
  • msg #283

Re: The still

Fellas, I'm real gad you all like to add you opinions and share your experiences. It gives everything much more to think about. I also hope those who are a bit more silent still feel like their thoughts are welcome.

I would though, like to ask if you all can try to do this more in-character. I don't mean all of the time of course, but doing so IC I think would add even more depth to the game itself. Or as an alternative... do it in character just a little and elaborate more here in the OOC thread.

Just something to consider please.
Ben Jagelis
player, 98 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 3 Jun 2008
at 10:38
  • msg #284

Re: The still

Just to add to the last few posts above, just because you, the player, hasn't necessarily served in the military doesn't mean you don't have anything worth adding.
For example, anyone who'd ever been camping has some idea of what is needed to survive in the wild and how much of a pain it can be to carry just the basics.
On the other hand, anyone who's ever sat on the side of the highway after running out of fuel might have a slightly different perspective.
It's all about how you apply the unique knowledge you possess. No matter what your viewpoint, I for one would like to hear it, even if I don't actually agree with some of it...
Arthur Fox
player, 13 posts
Sergeant
British Army
Tue 3 Jun 2008
at 18:12
  • msg #285

Re: The still

Don't worry. I will give my opinion when I feel there is something to add to the discussion. Usually by the time I read the posts everything I have to add is already said so adding will not bring in new information to the discussion.

Still this is my 2P on the matter, because I think the value of a still not only stays with the fuel it produces, but also with the trading value the device might have. What appears to be a small amount of fuel for our group with two fuel gurgeling monsters to drive in might prove to be more than enough for locals to operate a generator or other devices. They might be very happy to trade it for information, food or other valuables.

On the other hand our advantage at the moment is the speed we are operating on, so using this speed might still be the best option. So it all depends on the time it takes to salvage the still.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 47 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Tue 3 Jun 2008
at 18:27
  • msg #286

Re: The still

My civilian view of things is that we are going to need everything we can possibly get to survive in this harsh environment. It's a risk I know, we're gambling there isn't a PACT unit with enough resources to mount a pursuit close enough to make it to us in time.

The alternative is abandoning our only way of refueling the vehicles that we can count on. Even if we can carry 100kg each, that's not much stuff to live off long term. Unless it comes to a life and death situation, I say it's worth the wait.
Varis Babicevs
player, 14 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Tue 3 Jun 2008
at 20:00
  • msg #287

Re: The still


Since Varis is a lowly guide/interpreter, he's not likely going to get a chance to share his opinions. Also, his POV and mine are a bit different. So, with all due respect to our marvelous GM, I'm going to share my opinion.

In T2K Poland, the Bradley is a monster. Just the sight of it will probably dissuade the local ORMO and most light infantry from getting too cheeky with us. We should keep it. With our superior night vision technology, we should be able to spot most threats before they spot us (assuming we continue to travel at night). I've seen Youtube video of what a thermal imager mated to a 25mm Bushmaster can due to infantry and light vehicles. The Gavin is no slouch either. Yes, they're gas guzzlers but their armor, mobility, and fire power are worth the time and effort it will take to keep them running.

If we're caught on foot by cav patrols, we're in deep doo-doo; same if we're in camp. If we're caught on the road or in lager with the IFVs, their firepower will give us a decided advantage in a scrap.

Ambush is going to be a huge threat regardless of whether we try to catch up with the 8th on foot or by track. I think that if we continue to shift from road to track and field and back, and we excercise due diligence, we should be able to avoid- or shoot through- any heavy, pre-planned ambushes.
Marc St.Gil
player, 53 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Wed 4 Jun 2008
at 03:33
  • msg #288

Re: The still

Spiffy! Fusilir is sending friendly locals to help us straighten up the trailer. I would guess they are also going to gift us with their finest booze and throw a feast for us before offering up their nubile daughters[or sons Don't ask/Don't tell]. :)
Marc St.Gil
player, 54 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Wed 4 Jun 2008
at 03:41
  • msg #289

Re: The still

Alright lady and gents, the betting pool is now open.

PACT -
Local militia/farmers making sure we left -
Deserters/Bandits -
NATO -
Merchants checking out the noise -

Who wants what action?
Helmut Meyer
player, 67 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Wed 4 Jun 2008
at 03:50
  • msg #290

Re: The still

Marc St.Gil:
Alright lady and gents, the betting pool is now open.

PACT -
Local militia/farmers making sure we left -
Deserters/Bandits -
NATO -
Merchants checking out the noise -


PACT.

We are in a polish division's cantonment area. Near a food producing population which would likely be under the administration of the division. If not division soldiers... a militia under their control.

A cavalry division is mounted soldiers... what we face.

I doubt farmers would have so many horses. Most would be utilized/acquisitioned by the cavalry division. Horses the farmers would have would be the type bred for hauling plows and not riders.

NATO or bandits would take better steps to keep from being observed by the local population.

Merchants don't usually get too curious or look for trouble.

I say PACT 100%.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:54, Wed 04 June 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 100 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 4 Jun 2008
at 04:32
  • msg #291

Re: The still

13 days previously when the last semit reliable intel assessment was issued, both the 12th and 19th Polish Motorised Rifle Divisions, each with approximately 2000 men converted to cavalry, were identified as being located in teh vary area we are currently trying to move through. Chances are that most of those 4000+ troops are still in the area, and since the 8th has been and gone for at least a few days, they've had ample time to regroup and reorganise....

As I've always thought, heading north was asking for trouble and we've blundered right into the middle of it. What else could you expect trying to sneak two very loud tracked vehicles right through the middle of a Communist enclave?

My money (and everything else) is firmly on Pact, most likely from the 12th MRD (the 19th started a little further east I think).
Marc St.Gil
player, 55 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Wed 4 Jun 2008
at 04:59
  • msg #292

Re: The still

I am disapointed. I thought someone was going to take one of the longshots, but no, everyone is going for the obvious answer.
Me, I have faith in the boss. i think he would never do something that obvious. Thats why I am betting on stout yeoman farmars out here to help us evade the Red Menace. They are going to show us the best places to hide and give us lots of food and throw a big party for us for coming over to help liberate them from The Evil Empire.

Or they are outriders for the polish cav and we get to toss a couple of quarters of horse into the food stores before we go.

Either way we win and have fun.
Ben Jagelis
player, 101 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 4 Jun 2008
at 05:39
  • msg #293

Re: The still

Marc St.Gil:
Either way we win and have fun.

Unless they have a couple of RPGs and get lucky.....
Marc St.Gil
player, 56 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Wed 4 Jun 2008
at 05:46
  • msg #294

Re: The still

Ehhh, worst that happens is they kill Marc, you guys kill them,  and I roll up a Polish Cav deserter. See, lots of good options.
Ben Jagelis
player, 102 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 4 Jun 2008
at 06:24
  • msg #295

Re: The still

Deserter!?

I was thinking more along the lines of prisoner we can exact brutal retribution from....

:P
Jennifer Gideon
player, 29 posts
Captain: Royal Engineers
"Blue wire Red wire hmm!"
Wed 4 Jun 2008
at 22:37
  • msg #296

Re: The still

Damm...

I'm stuckt on trailer duty when I could be out planting explosives :(

I'll 'still' be at it by the time the fun's over ;)
Helmut Meyer
player, 68 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Thu 5 Jun 2008
at 12:07
  • msg #297

Re: The still

Hey guys, where is everyone? We have loads of posts every day and then we get our first potential combat and it goes quiet all of a sudden? Or maybe its just me.
Stone
player, 46 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Thu 5 Jun 2008
at 21:28
  • msg #298

Re: The still

Helmut Meyer:
Hey guys, where is everyone? We have loads of posts every day and then we get our first potential combat and it goes quiet all of a sudden? Or maybe its just me.


It might be one of two things.

1)  some posters loose it when combat is about to start, and loose their own personal coolness under fire roll (!)

2) or maybe they are waiting to see what plays out, having already posted their actions they are now waiting for fusiler to advance the encounter a bit.
Arthur Fox
player, 17 posts
Sergeant
British Army
Thu 5 Jun 2008
at 21:58
  • msg #299

Re: The still

Or just RPOL server was down every time they tried posting.

Just wanted to add this one as this is what happened to me yesterday... twice.
Ben Jagelis
player, 104 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 6 Jun 2008
at 04:21
  • msg #300

Re: The still

Fusilier:
Edit - Corrected error. I thought Ben was with the dismounts.

I don't think Ben's even touched the ground since the lake! Odd for an infantryman not to get his boots dirty isn't it?  :D
Stone
player, 47 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Fri 6 Jun 2008
at 08:23
  • msg #301

Re: The still

Ben Jagelis:
I don't think Ben's even touched the ground since the lake! Odd for an infantryman not to get his boots dirty isn't it?  :D



Soft as!

:-)


.
Marc St.Gil
player, 59 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Fri 6 Jun 2008
at 10:03
  • msg #302

Re: The still

Hmmm, could be the first signs of maturity and wisdom. Tell me, have you considered a career in Armor?
Ben Jagelis
player, 106 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 7 Jun 2008
at 13:41
  • msg #303

FYI

Marc St.Gil:
"... Repeat ..."

Note: never, EVER say "repeat" on the radio during normal comunications. The word "repeat" is strictly reserved for calling and adjustment of artillery.
Instead, "say again" is used.
John Jameson McCarthy:
He fired for the centre of the radioman's body mass, squeezing five rounds off at the man.

I'm hoping that McCarthy has a strength stat of at least 15 then.... Recoil is a killer in regards to accuracy.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:06, Sat 07 June 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 108 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 7 Jun 2008
at 16:22
  • msg #304

Re: FYI

What's the background light level? (Page 223 - Tactical Visibility)
Fusilier
GM, 105 posts
Your Guide
Sat 7 Jun 2008
at 16:31
  • msg #305

Re: FYI

Ben Jagelis:
What's the background light level? (Page 223 - Tactical Visibility)


About 1, heavy overcast (no moon or starlight). No rain, so about what the book states as visible ranges is what I have been working with.
Kurt Weiss
player, 62 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sat 7 Jun 2008
at 16:33
  • msg #306

Re: FYI

Quick question.  Is the map using the scale at the bottom left?  If it is, Fox and I engaged our guys at closer to 200m.  I know the narrative said we fired at about 100m and that was closer to our intent, thats why I ask.

Just trying to solidify the situation.  I am working out timing issues in my head based on distances on the map.
Fusilier
GM, 106 posts
Your Guide
Sat 7 Jun 2008
at 16:46
  • msg #307

Re: FYI

Kurt Weiss:
Quick question.  Is the map using the scale at the bottom left?  If it is, Fox and I engaged our guys at closer to 200m.  I know the narrative said we fired at about 100m and that was closer to our intent, thats why I ask.

Just trying to solidify the situation.  I am working out timing issues in my head based on distances on the map.


I believe the length of the entire scale is 250. Each of the four increments is about 60 meters. How I understood the map marks the shots this way - 100 meters or so. Maybe I am wrong.
Kurt Weiss
player, 63 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sat 7 Jun 2008
at 17:57
  • msg #308

Re: FYI

I'll run with that.  I was assuming it was 250m between larger hash marks with the whole bar being 500m.

At least your description fits the narrative better and I am no longer floundering.

Thanks.
Fusilier
GM, 107 posts
Your Guide
Sat 7 Jun 2008
at 18:30
  • msg #309

Re: FYI

Kurt Weiss:
I'll run with that.  I was assuming it was 250m between larger hash marks with the whole bar being 500m.
At least your description fits the narrative better and I am no longer floundering.
Thanks.


I just double checked on the program itself. The entire scale is 250m from one end to the other. Each increment is a little over 60 meters (about the listed close ranges for the party's small arms - on average). Sorry about any confusion.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:30, Sat 07 June 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 110 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 11 Jun 2008
at 03:50
  • msg #310

Re: FYI

I know it's a minor point, but as far as I know, the term "Gavin" has never actually been in use to describe the M113. I know it's certainly unknown in Australia.
All references to it that I've found point towards it being a name applied by civilians for reasons unknown.
Global Security:
Initially nick-named "The Green Dragon" by the enemy, the M113 served in all areas of Vietnam throughout the war and was to become one of the most successful armored vehicles of all time. Unlike many other Army vehicles, the M113 does not appear to have acquired an official name or even a widely used nickname. Some advocates have indicated that the M113 is also nicknamed the "Gavin", after an Army general who was influential in the development of the M113 in the 1950s. This is not however, an official designation, and there is some question about the extent to which actual users of the system use this name. A similar point arises with respect to the M8 AGS, which some unofficially call the Buford, despite this also being an unofficial naming. One observer wrote that "In more than 30 years working in the defense industry, I have never, never heard anybody use the name “Gavin” for the M-113. Not in the US nor in any of the many countries that use the vehicle. Not in the military forces, not in the companies that build and equip it, not in the groups that retrofit and repair it. This usage appears not only to be “unofficial”, it is entirely fictional and I believe that you may have been the victim of a hoax or deliberate disinformation."

Therefore, to keep in line with reality, any and all real soldiers who've ever had anything to do with the machine, would deride anyone actually using the name.

Edit: and here's a webpage devoted to showing how WRONG the name is and exposing the nutbag who started the whole thing....
http://home.comcast.net/~genericdad/m113gavin.html
This message was last edited by the player at 04:49, Wed 11 June 2008.
Marc St.Gil
player, 62 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Wed 11 Jun 2008
at 04:22
  • msg #311

Re: FYI

I don't recall ever hearing the M113 refered to as a Gavin while I was active. I have seen the name a few times in reports since then. Honest truth nicknames come and go, I wouldn't sweat it.

Specifiacally, In a game, not necessarily run buy military personell, exclusivly for military personell, for military reasons---I wouldn't worry about it.

I tend to try and keep it "realistic" but it's a game and I'm not going sweat the small stuff or spend a lot of time giving people grief over it.
Kurt Weiss
player, 67 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Wed 11 Jun 2008
at 09:22
  • msg #312

Re: FYI

I've also only heard it referred to only as "113" (as in 'One-One-Three').  We could postulate that the misused name of 'Gavin' worked its way into the T2K military because of all the draftees not knowing any better and 'having read it somewhere'.

Don't sweat the small stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff.  And to be honest, having worked with other militaries, I would be hard pressed to deride anyone about what they call a particular piece of equipment.  I would just put it down as cultural differences and run with it.

Like don't call an American Combat Arms (particulary infantry) NCO 'Sarge'.  I let my commonwealth officer's do it all the time because that's what they are used to.  But American officers, nco's and soldiers just don't do it.  It's 'Sarn't'.  Again, that is primarily in combat arms.  Combat support and combat service support is a whole 'nother ball game.

Another example is what commonwealth guys call 'Kit' we call 'TA-50'.  Although, I think 'Kit' is spreading to US usage more now.
Ben Jagelis
player, 112 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 11 Jun 2008
at 10:32
  • msg #313

Re: FYI

Sarge is also very much frowned upon in the Australian army which is definately part of the commonwealth.
Kit I believe is primarily the province of the British army. Us Australians call it pretty much anything although "gear" was prevailant in the units I served in.
Weapons, particularly rifles, are often refered to as "gats" as in gatling.

Seriously though the incorrect and misleading term "Gavin" was first coined by a mentally unstable man in an obscure "letter to the editor" or something of that type in 1995.

Even if by some freak the internet had progressed very far past bulletin board stage before EMP wiped out almost all computers, many people in the mid 90s were still very much internet if not computer illiterate. Remember that DOS was still the primary operating system for many PCs at the time with even Windows 95 still something very new and full of bugs.

Also note that the person who suggested the name has only managed to spread it about through heavy use of the internet and assumed names.

I myself only first heard the term used about a year ago in an rpol game. It is, and always will be, a figment of the imagination of a deluded fanatic and I honestly can't see why anyone would want to use it.

I appologise for ranting about this, but the more I learn about it's origins, the more insulted I get.
Stone
player, 51 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Wed 11 Jun 2008
at 10:32
  • msg #314

Re: FYI

Maybe "Gavin" is the name of the individual vehicle, rather than the nickname for the make and model ... just like fighter pilots named their planes.
Ben Jagelis
player, 113 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 11 Jun 2008
at 10:35
  • msg #315

Re: FYI

Perhaps, but Gavin to me sounds like somebody who was picked on in high school for being in the maths club and at the age of 45 STILL hasn't had a girlfriend they didn't pay by the hour....
Kurt Weiss
player, 68 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Wed 11 Jun 2008
at 11:31
  • msg #316

Re: FYI

Well, I will admit, the bulk of my experience with Commonwealth soldiers has been with Canadians, British, and New Zealanders.  The one Australian I work with is usually about an hour away and I chat him up maybe once a week...and you are right, of the bunch, he is probably the only one that calls me 'Sarn't'.

And if all this 'Gavin' stuff is getting to you, I can give you a hug to make you feel better.  I'm good like that.

I will never call it a Gavin, but that's me.

Peace, Love, Dope!
Varis Babicevs
player, 19 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Wed 11 Jun 2008
at 16:40
  • msg #317

Re: FYI

Ben Jagelis:
I myself only first heard the term used about a year ago in an rpol game. It is, and always will be, a figment of the imagination of a deluded fanatic and I honestly can't see why anyone would want to use it.


Ahem... I deeply apologize for using the name I dare not repeat. I am ashamed for ever having used it. I am embarrassed that I was duped into believing its legitimacy. I hereby banish it from my vocabulary. I shall cease to use it forthwith.

As the sole offending party, I will endevour to seek out and expunge any prior use of the incorrect and scandalous name.

Once again, my deepest apologies.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:48, Wed 11 June 2008.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 54 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Wed 11 Jun 2008
at 17:00
  • msg #318

Re: FYI

I'm sure I've used the Name that Shall Not be Spoken as well at some point, I certainly didn't know it was Verbotten. Still, Varis probably picked it up as a derogatory slang term from PACT forces.
Helmut Meyer
player, 73 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Wed 11 Jun 2008
at 17:05
  • msg #319

Re: FYI

How about we move on. We have a situation here IG.
Ben Jagelis
player, 114 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 11 Jun 2008
at 23:01
  • msg #320

Re: FYI

Thank you all. I didn't want to sound as deranged as the one who's trying to foist it upon the world, and yet somehow I feel I have.  :S

Sooooooo, moving on......are they all dead yet? Is it time to go scavenging and pulling gold teeth?  :D
Ben Jagelis
player, 116 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Thu 12 Jun 2008
at 06:36
  • msg #321

Re: FYI

Fusilier:
...the well used fifty cal has jammed.
Fusilier:
...inbound tracers impacting against the front of the Bradley.

What I wouldn't give for a 40mm grenade launcher about now....
Stone
player, 53 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Thu 12 Jun 2008
at 12:05
  • msg #322

Re: FYI

I'm away for 36 hours.  You probably wouldnt have noticed normally, but with combat in progress i thougth i should let you all know in case things move a bit quicker due to the action.
Fusilier
GM, 111 posts
Your Guide
Thu 12 Jun 2008
at 13:02
  • msg #323

Re: FYI

Stone:
I'm away for 36 hours.  You probably wouldnt have noticed normally, but with combat in progress i thougth i should let you all know in case things move a bit quicker due to the action.


Thanks for letting me know KC. I'm probably pushing the turns quickly anyways.
Stone
player, 54 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Thu 12 Jun 2008
at 21:06
  • msg #324

Re: FYI

OK, last post from me before my 36 hours starts.

1)  can the bradley use its 25mm it has to shoot-up the vehicle column?  (ie do we have anyone crewing it?  I am assuming Marc is on the 7.62mm)

2)  Looking at the last map, stone will stop the bradley where it currently is.  From this position it can fire on the vehielces or the men advancing on the OP.  The bradley has range and NV as its advantages, no use closign too close to the enemy and from here it can provide good fire support.

3)  soorry for doing this OOC, just listing stones intentions.

4)  on the InterCom, tell our OP guys to move to the bradley under our covering fire (if possible)
Marc St.Gil
player, 65 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Thu 12 Jun 2008
at 22:34
  • msg #325

Re: FYI

The machine gun I am firing is a coax. That means it is mounted in the turret with the 25mm. I can fire either as needed. I was shooting the MMG first because I was shooting at people and the 25mm seemed like overkill. :)
But yeah, I can shoot it from where I am and will if there is even the slightest need. Or if I want to hear a louder boom. Or if we get bored. :)

So far I havent seen anything that hard to shoot up with the MMG. And heck, we might want some of their stuff. LoL
Ben Jagelis
player, 117 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 13 Jun 2008
at 00:09
  • msg #326

Re: FYI

The enemy "heavy gun" is I believe an antiaircraft autocannon, somewhere in the 20-25mm range. I'm guessing a 23mm single barrel ZU-23.
If this is the case, then they definately have the range over us as would be expected from something designed to fire upwards of several kilometres into the air.

The good news is that it's shots, while capable of penetrating both vehicles, are not likely to do a great deal of damage unless we get an unlucky roll or two.

And back to the bad news.... They put out a hell of a lot of rounds in a very short period. That lucky roll mentioned above is just a matter of time.
Marc St.Gil
player, 66 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Fri 13 Jun 2008
at 00:53
  • msg #327

Re: FYI

I would guess about the same. Although it could be a 14.5mm KPV or something of that nature. We should know more shortly.
Ben Jagelis
player, 118 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 13 Jun 2008
at 03:33
  • msg #328

Re: FYI

Well, based on the information in the description and the die roller, it's almost got to be an autocannon.
Regardless, even a KPV can make this a very bad day.
Fusilier
GM, 112 posts
Your Guide
Fri 13 Jun 2008
at 04:22
  • msg #329

Re: FYI

I feel to help create the confusion and the strong element of the unknown which often occurs in battle (especially at night)... I'm not going to identify equipment, vehicles or uniforms, etc unless a PC has a close/clear line of vision. If things were so simple, we wouldn't have unfortunate friendly fire incidents for example. I feel combat (especially at night) should be confusing to a degree.

As your PC are veterans however, I'll try to add hints or 'possibles'. In this case, it would appear to your PCs that the weapon's signature is similar to what you've experienced from 23mm ZU model weapons.
Fusilier
GM, 113 posts
Your Guide
Fri 13 Jun 2008
at 08:56
  • msg #330

Re: FYI

Please welcome DaLen to the game. He's playing Tom Handley.
Marc St.Gil
player, 67 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Fri 13 Jun 2008
at 09:17
  • msg #331

Re: FYI

Welcome to our merry band.
Helmut Meyer
player, 76 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Fri 13 Jun 2008
at 10:58
  • msg #332

Re: FYI

Hello and welcome.
Arthur Fox
player, 25 posts
Sergeant
British Army
Fri 13 Jun 2008
at 18:17
  • msg #333

Re: FYI

Welcome soldier
Tom Handley
player, 3 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Fri 13 Jun 2008
at 18:33
  • msg #334

Re: FYI

Thanks for the warm welcome, folks.
Ben Jagelis
player, 119 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 06:37
  • msg #335

Re: FYI

Welcome!
I think you'll make a great backup driver/dismount.
One small point though, a bayonet cannot be fixed to an M16 while the rifle is fitted with an M203 - GLs barrel protrudes past the bayonet lug.
Also, just as a side note, there's almost no way I'd want to use a bayonet when attached to an M16 anyway. All the M16s I've ever laid hands on felt like they'd snap in half at the slightest bump.
Give me a good L1A1 any day. Decent reach, solid, and hits like a sledge hammer!   :D
Kurt Weiss
player, 70 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 07:12
  • msg #336

Re: FYI

Welcome,

Bear with some of us.  We have a fair amount of real world experience with this group, each with our own little peeves and preferences.  But its all in good fun.

Yeah, the bayonet on the M16 w/GL is a 'no go'.  But I never felt that the M16A2, in general, was lacking as in bayonet drills.  It is solid enough.  The A1s were certainly flimsier, but the A2s have a much heavier barrel and a seemingly more solid general construction.  Just my personal experience, YMMV.

And yeah, the L1A1 IIRC, which was the British version of the FN-FAL, is a great rifle.  But the Commonwealth finally caved to US pressure as part of NATO to move to the 5.56mm.  Such was the fate of the German G3, which was another great rifle.
Fusilier
GM, 115 posts
Your Guide
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 09:00
  • msg #337

Re: FYI

Just another friendly reminder to keep track of ammo fired for personal weapons. I haven't updated the support weapons but I have a record kept. I believe the total amount fired for the party so far is...

.50 cal (Ben) - 6
M60 (Jennifer) - 5

Fox 4
Weiss 4

JJ - 5
Boswell - 10
Kelly - 10

Bradley Coax (Marc) - 30

Handley - 3
Arthur Fox
player, 26 posts
Sergeant
British Army
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 09:25
  • msg #338

Re: FYI

That's in line with the 6 rounds stil in the magazine on the character sheet.
Stone
player, 55 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 09:36
  • msg #339

Re: FYI

Fusilier:
I feel to help create the confusion and the strong element of the unknown which often occurs in battle (especially at night)... I'm not going to identify equipment, vehicles or uniforms, etc unless a PC has a close/clear line of vision. If things were so simple, we wouldn't have unfortunate friendly fire incidents for example. I feel combat (especially at night) should be confusing to a degree.

As your PC are veterans however, I'll try to add hints or 'possibles'. In this case, it would appear to your PCs that the weapon's signature is similar to what you've experienced from 23mm ZU model weapons.



I think we'd all agree with you Fusilier.  A great way to ref the game.
Fusilier
GM, 116 posts
Your Guide
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 09:56
  • msg #340

Re: FYI

Thanks KC. I hope everyone is enjoying the game. I know combat is not to everyone's liking, and it can get get drawn out over a number of real life days. Regardless, I appreciate everyone's great input and rapid posting.
Stone
player, 57 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 09:57
  • msg #341

Re: FYI

Marc St.Gil:
The machine gun I am firing is a coax. That means it is mounted in the turret with the 25mm. I can fire either as needed. I was shooting the MMG first because I was shooting at people and the 25mm seemed like overkill. :)
But yeah, I can shoot it from where I am and will if there is even the slightest need. Or if I want to hear a louder boom. Or if we get bored. :)

So far I havent seen anything that hard to shoot up with the MMG. And heck, we might want some of their stuff. LoL


No worries St G.  I wasnt sure if you only had access to the 7.62, or if there was anybody else aboard the bradley who might be operating anything.

Good reasoning though re overkill.
Tom Handley
player, 5 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 11:04
  • msg #342

Re: FYI

Ah, but a bayonet can also be used as a hand-held knife, no?  No matter, I've made a minor change to the equipment.  Hope it is more to your liking.
Kurt Weiss
player, 72 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 11:34
  • msg #343

Re: FYI

To Tom,

A bayonet is actually a fine knife.  And with the scabbard, it can act as a wire cutter, at least American M-9 Bayonets can.  If Ben was just ragging you about your inventory, I'd go ahead and keep it.  No real reason to swap it out.

To be honest, I think the main reason my character didn't have one is that his primary weapon was the carbine version the M-16 (what the game calls the M-177, the prototype for what became the M-4).  Although they come with bayonet lugs, the idea of using a bayonet on the end of a carbine just strikes me as strange.  Plus, I am personally used to carrying a knife or tool or two that make the bayonet redundant for me.

Please don't take anything we might beat you up about as necessarily the only or best way to do things.  Everyones got their preferences and quirks.

To Fusilier,

Yep, I've pulled the trigger 4 times.  And I concur with the kudos for a well run game.  And I don't think anyone said we don't like combat.  We just said that if we avoided it, we wouldn't feel cheated.  :)
Fusilier
GM, 117 posts
Your Guide
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 11:48
  • msg #344

Re: FYI

Kurt Weiss:
(OOC: I am thinking that with the trees and visibility that I only have 4, maybe 6 decent targets, as long as the AA gun is down...  If I am correct, the two guys closer together south of the GAZ-69 are the weapons team and a very identifiable target from where I am)


You can't see all of the targets of course, but the angle of the road gives you a pretty good perpendicular view. So, it isn't that bad. The terrain and darkness might make some shots difficult though (but your location is still good).
Helmut Meyer
player, 77 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 12:03
  • msg #345

Re: FYI

Agreed. Good game. We wouldn't post so much if it wasn't enjoyable. Combat may not be the favorite for some, but we all know it comes with the territory of the game. Awesome map.

Good point on Weiss. We are all a pretty good bunch to game with - people's opinions are pretty much just trying to help out.
Tom Handley
player, 7 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 12:16
  • msg #346

Re: FYI

Back to bayonet, then.  As much as I like the idea of a Sykes-Fairbairn (as a Scrounging trophy), I prefer the tool-ness of a bayonet.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:32, Sat 14 June 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 120 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 12:20
  • msg #347

Re: FYI

I've got no problem at all about the equipment as such, just wanted to be sure everyone knew the limitations.
Even as an M60 machinegunner, I always felt naked without a bayonet. The issued blade with the L1A1 was my preference (much heavier and stronger than the M9 Kurt mentioned) and quite useful for all sorts of things besides stabbing.


If I couldn't lay my hands on one of them, I still had my trusty handaxe or occasionally an old WWI Lee Enfield bayonet with a good 20 inches of cold steel! (although that was only when I was acting as "enemy") Amazing how pale the new recruits on the opposing side get when you're waving it about.... :D

Interesting note, with just a quick adjustment with an allen key, the 1907 pattern .303 bayonet (pictured above) will actually fit quite snugly on the end of a Steyr AUG. Doesn't do much for the balance though.

Of course even though designed as weapons, I always think of them more as tools. In my mind, you're issued with a rifle, machinegun, etc so you can shoot the enemy while they're still waaaaaay over there. They get close enough for you to trade punches and you're in serious trouble....
Kurt Weiss
player, 73 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 12:54
  • msg #348

Re: FYI

I'll agree that the M9 doesn't feel like much in your hands (I think mostly because it doesn't have a full tang), but it will still get the job done.

http://www.m9bayonet.com/buck-phrobis-m9.html   (I got to learn how to link actual pic's)

The oval hole on the blade is where it connects to the end of the scabbard to turn into wire cutters.

And yeah, those old school bayonets were practically swords.

As far as Bayonets on anything with a bullpup design...<shivers> it's just wrong on so many levels.

Also, Kurt is a pretty good Forward Observer...so fire away with those M203s.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:58, Sat 14 June 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 122 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 13:00
  • msg #349

Re: FYI

And that's what made it so scary!   :P

20,000 or so M9's were bought by the Australian Army for their F88 Steyr AUGs and I have to admit they're not bad. A substantial improvement over the worn out bayonets issued with the equally worn out M16A1s we were occasionally using - those would sometimes fly off the end of the rifle when a shot was fired!

To post the picture, simply type "img src=" before the link and enclose the lot with < and >
You can also align it left or right on the page if you wish simply by typing in "align=left" or "align=right" before the >
This message was last edited by the player at 13:10, Sat 14 June 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 123 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 13:18
  • msg #350

Re: FYI

There seems to be an awful lot of rounds being fired from rifles at the moment. I really hope everyone (besides the inept Boswell of course) is taking recoil into account.
An M16A2 such as the one in Boswells hands, generates 3 points of recoil with every shot. If Boswell fires 5 single shots in a five second turn, he's just built up 15 points of recoil.
Assuming his strength is 6, he has a negative modifer to shot accuracy of 9, which for somebody with Boswells skill means he's DEFINATELY wasting his ammo.

Recoil is a big part of why Ben is firing single shots with the M2HB (although range is also having some impact).
Tom Handley
player, 8 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 13:23
  • msg #351

Re: FYI

Ben Jagelis:
which for somebody with Boswells skill means he's DEFINATELY wasting his ammo.

I think that may be the point.
Helmut Meyer
player, 79 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 13:29
  • msg #352

Re: FYI

Looks like one level down from spray and pray. Boswell lacks fire control discipline and basic experience. Fear probably also plays a part.
Kurt Weiss
player, 74 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 13:59
  • msg #353

Re: FYI

I am not real solid on the game mechanics, but recoil for fully automatic weapons with 1-in-5 tracer should probably be exempt from that ruling.  Same thing in high vis environment because you can track your impact area.

The whole point it that you should be able to walk yourself into the target if need be.  Hopefully you are a good enough gunner to be right on target or darn close in the first place, but those tracers are there for a reason...Just my two pennies.

And yeah, we will probably have to give Boswell a black powder rifle at some point just to keep him from using all our ammo stores.
Ben Jagelis
player, 124 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 18:25
  • msg #354

Re: FYI

http://www.pmulcahy.com/assaul...n_assault_rifles.htm
Using the weapon stats shown at that location, you can see that there is an "SS" and "Burst" rating.

The first is how many points of recoil acrue from single shots. (The 3 points per shot in my Boswell example above.)

The second, "Burst" is how much recoil acrues from each burst in a 5 second turn. You will note that for many weapons, the Burst recoil rating is less than the number of rounds in a burst multiplied by the SS rating. In this example, a typical burst is 5 rounds which if fired as single shots, would acrue 10 points of recoil. Firing those same 5 rounds as a burst however only acrues 6 points.

I would like to mention that anything less than a medium machinegun (approx 7.62mm) is really too light to fire bursts all that accurately - they simply don't have the bulk to absorb the recoil. This is partly why fully automatic weapons are so heavy.

Walking a burst onto target isn't as easy as it sounds either. Taking the M60 as an example (because I'm so intimately familiar with it), 9 rounds are fired every second - it's just slow enough so you can actually count the rounds as they are fired.

When mounted on a tripod, recoil isn't really much of a factor, something that can be seen in the recoil stats of such weapons. Therefore, longer, or in T2K terms, more frequent bursts can be fired with little impact on accuracy.

Using just the bipod, or resting the barrel on a convient log, etc, also has an effect on recoil, but nothing like a tripod.

Firing when unsupported, such as from the hip, or for the really strong, from the shoulder like a rifle, recoil is a major issue. Note that it's not JUST the round firing and pushing the weapon back, but also the operating systems within the weapon cycling a new round into place for firing. In the case of the M60, that's about a pound or two of metal moving backwards and forwards at 9 cycles per second (550 per minute).

It's a bit like trying to control a high pressure fire hose that somebody is turning on and off really fast. As the standard burst (according to reality) is supposed to be 5-10 rounds, you've got less than a second to react and adjust before releasing the trigger. Unless you're keen on wasting ammo, it's far better to fire a burst, observe where it hit, and adjust your point of aim for the next burst. Often somebody besides the actually machinegunner will observe the fall of shot and call corrections.


As for lighter weapons such as assault and battle rifles, they're not designed for fully automatic fire. The option is really there for desperation fire (lead scout on initial contact at close range) or short range room clearing when accuracy isn't as important as filling the room with lead.

Studies have shown that with these lighter weapons, anything more than a thre round burst is pointless - the recoil has built to the point that the barrel has risen away from the target. Even if walking the burst onto target was possible with such a wildly out of control weapon, the limited supply of ammunition in a magazine (commonly 20 or 30 rounds) and the high rate of fire (800 rounds per minute, or 13 per second for an M16) means that the entire magazine would be expended in about 2 1/4 seconds.

So much for the movies where one magazine lasts a full five minutes!


And on to tracer. While the standard mix is one in five for belts, I'm a little hesitant in T2K to believe that ratio is still in use. As most ammo is reloaded, and tracer isn't something you're likely to be able to make in your back shed, I would think that it's probably no more than say one in fifteen, and then only for special occasions or when resupply is easily accomplished.

Observing fire at night without tracer is difficult to say the least. During the day you can usually spot the puffs of dust or mud thrown up when the rounds hit something, but at night?

Perhaps that's something else we need to take into account - two lots of ammunition. One set of belts without tracer for daytime, and another with the precious tracer for nights.


Once we're in a relatively safe location with a couple of hours to spare, I think it would be a fine idea to have the infantry types instruct everyone else basic battle drills. Everyone should have learnt them during basic training, but for sme that was many, many years before and often taught by non-combat troops. I know that for airforce personnel for example, if they come under ground attack, they're only taught to find a hole and get in it. There's next to nothing said about fire and movement, let alone working as a team.

So Boswell is probably doing fairly well with that in mind. At least he's been able to take the weapon off safe and point it in roughly the right direction.....
Marc St.Gil
player, 68 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Sat 14 Jun 2008
at 20:32
  • msg #355

Re: FYI

Good overview Ben.

I can second and confirm what he has said. The current version of the M16 doesn't have full auto as an option even. Safe/single shot/3 shot burst. With anything smaller than a medium machine gun on a bipod the kind of shooting I am doing is pointless. The one I am shooting is built into a turret, about as stable as it gets. On a tripod even the .50 cal is redily controllable.
Even SAW's [Squad Automatic Weapon] are not really designed for steady non-stop autofire. Though on a bipod makes a huge difference.

On the subject of bayonetes. The M9 is an ok tool, and really that is what it is designed for. The US hasen't taught bayonet drill for about 20 years, it is not a part of the modern concept of war. Honest truth it is not that usefull unless you are in a tight confined area being over run where you don't have time to reload. In urban scenarios it has the potential to be usefull, but the current thinking is just teach them to shoot. That being said, in a pure bayonet fight my personal choice is a shovel or a machete. :)
Kurt Weiss
player, 75 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sun 15 Jun 2008
at 02:44
  • msg #356

Re: FYI

I've found the M249 (SAW), which is technically a light machine gun, and the M60 (and I would assume the M240, but I stopped being a gunner before it became the standard medium MG) are both very handleable from the shoulder and hip fire.  Granted, I'm a pretty big guy (6'2" and 225lbs) but we had some significantly smaller gunners that could really move that bad boy.

The game mechanics seem to make a good amount of sense.  I'll be honest, I have barely looked at them since I created my character.  (I was only slightly more familiar with 1st edition rules because those were the ones I had 20 years ago and I only bought the new stuff to play this game).

The main reason the M16A2 doesn't have the full-auto function was a lesson learned in Vietnam which is no longer a valid lesson.  That of relatively untrained soldiers 'praying and spraying.'  Not because the rifle was too hard to handle in Auto-Fire.  For the game, however, it works out that it was probably a good idea because of the reinstated conscription.

But for real life, I believe that our modern, highly trained and volunteer servicemen (and women) are given a disservice by not allowing them the ability to have full-auto capability on their M4s and M16s.  In fact, there is a move in the Marine Corps to fix that problem with the Infantry Automatic Rifle (IAR)because they recognize the value of it with a highly trained force.

http://kr.youtube.com/watch?v=cVHLvtArC_g

I can think of many applications where it would be real nice to have an entire squad of light machine guns, if even for a few seconds.  With a full magazine, that is still 3-5 bursts per rifle.  And with how little the rifle kicks, it is very handleable with a little, and I mean very little, training.

Yeah, bayonet training was practically an afterthought when I went through basic in 1991.  They slotted two days of it.  Now they focus on modern Army combatives, which is decent, but I think limited in scope.  The first level focuses on ground fighting, which I despise.  Most soldiers never get passed this level.  They should instead teach you techniques from the standing position first and work their way to ground fighting.  The way I look at it, if you are on your back, you are already losing the fight, better to start and finish the fight while on your feet, if you can.  The Army should have absorbed LINE (Linear Involuntary Neurological Override Engagement) as their standard hand to hand fighting.
Fusilier
GM, 118 posts
Your Guide
Mon 16 Jun 2008
at 06:41
  • msg #357

Re: FYI

I see that everyone has taken their turn and are waiting for me. I'll do up the resolution soon as I get home from work in a couple hours. Sorry for any delays.
Ben Jagelis
player, 125 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 16 Jun 2008
at 13:07
  • msg #358

Re: FYI

Ambushes and FIBUA are prime examples of situations where buckets of bullets are the preference, although the recoil/controllability issue with assault rifles, etc is still there.
Fully automatic fire with light weapons should in my mind at least, be reserved for short range only. Anything more than a few dozen yards and you might as well just throw your ammo away.

As for firing positions, I'll almost always chose prone when possible. The added stability and much smaller target you present far outweigh the mobility you might gain staying upright.
However, when at short range with plenty of high cover such as in buildings, staying on your feet is a must. Of course there's plenty of other situations when prone isn't suitable such as when in tall grass.
Kurt Weiss
player, 77 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Mon 16 Jun 2008
at 13:32
  • msg #359

Re: FYI

Ben,

Not sure if you were tracking, or if you were responding to someone else.  I was talking about hand-to-hand, not rifle combat.

I agree on firing positions.

As far as hand-to-hand, though, being prone is not where I want to be.
Ben Jagelis
player, 127 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 16 Jun 2008
at 13:35
  • msg #360

Re: FYI

Fusilier:
As there are two types of ammo available. Please indicate which is being fired for future combat alright? Not so important against soft skinned vehicles but infantry and armour will make a difference.

I think we can safely assume that HE will always be the round of choice when firing at soft skin vehicles...
On the other hand, 25mm HE has woeful penetration and therefore may not actually do anything.  :S
But then HE has fragments so will effectively get at least one extra damage roll with a 50% chance of up to 6 extra potential penetrations.  :)
AND anyone stupid enough to be within the secondary burst radius of 4 metres, might need a bandaid or two as well! :D

Go HE!   :D


Seems I misread your OOC post there and assumed rifles.... :S
Whoops.
Kurt Weiss
player, 78 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Mon 16 Jun 2008
at 13:55
  • msg #361

Re: FYI

Well, I wasn't very clear when I shifted trains of thought.  I had four paragraphs talking about full-auto weapons followed by a paragraph in response about bayonets and hand-to-hand.
Jennifer Gideon
player, 39 posts
Captain: Royal Engineers
"Blue wire Red wire hmm!"
Mon 16 Jun 2008
at 16:33
  • msg #362

Re: FYI

The M113 appears to be on a hill?

What's the height variance between the contour lines. Reason I ask is that I was thinking about the reverse slope if anything big turned up to support the other side.
Fusilier
GM, 120 posts
Your Guide
Mon 16 Jun 2008
at 16:49
  • msg #363

Re: FYI

Jennifer Gideon:
The M113 appears to be on a hill?

What's the height variance between the contour lines. Reason I ask is that I was thinking about the reverse slope if anything big turned up to support the other side.


Not much difference. Its not really a significant geographical feature. I hesitate to call it a hill.
Tom Handley
player, 10 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Tue 17 Jun 2008
at 03:01
  • msg #364

Re: FYI

Hey guys, I will be moving this weekend and won't have internet from Saturday the 21st (might possibly be on in the morning US Eastern time) until at least Thursday the 26th.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:03, Tue 17 June 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 128 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 17 Jun 2008
at 06:44
  • msg #365

Re: FYI

Helmut Meyer:
Keying the radio he says, "Sunray this ist Holdfast. 40mm ist at maximum. Ineffective without line of sight." Despite the correction by Weiss, Meyer had little hope they would get anywhere close enough. Not without LOS or an actual forward observer. "Recommend cease fire. Over."

Weiss is the FO and it will require several more shots before a hit on the target area can be expected. In the meantime, just the sound of the grenades exploding (and getting closer with each shot) might have the desired effect on the enemy (causing them to break and run).

Note also that hand held grenade launchers are not the most accurate of the indirect weapons when the firer cannot self adjust - but it's all we have...
Helmut Meyer
player, 81 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Tue 17 Jun 2008
at 08:41
  • msg #366

Re: FYI

Ben Jagelis:
Weiss is the FO and it will require several more shots before a hit on the target area can be expected. In the meantime, just the sound of the grenades exploding (and getting closer with each shot) might have the desired effect on the enemy (causing them to break and run).

Note also that hand held grenade launchers are not the most accurate of the indirect weapons when the firer cannot self adjust - but it's all we have...


I was under the impression nobody (including Weiss) had Forward Observer. It was asked but I didn't see any confirmations.
Ben Jagelis
player, 129 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 17 Jun 2008
at 12:14
  • msg #367

Re: FYI

Kurt Weiss:
Forward Observer (Above Average)

I admit it's a little hard to spot jammed in with all the other skills they've listed in "The Cast" thread.
I'm sure our GM is taking his efforts at correction into account although as stated, it's damn hard to get the first round on target firing into the darkness like that.
If only we had some ILLUM rounds......   :(
Stone:
On the intercom, Stone asks a strategic question

"Boss (OOC:  who is in charge???) are we having the OP pull back to the vehicles, or are we moving to them?

Major McCarthy is in overall command I think we all decided.
The intercom however will only put you in touch with the acting vehicle commander and gunner, St Gil.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:19, Tue 17 June 2008.
Stone
player, 59 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Tue 17 Jun 2008
at 12:22
  • msg #368

Re: FYI

THanks Ben.

If only we had some ILLUM rounds ... maybe the enemies will work against them???
Kurt Weiss
player, 79 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Tue 17 Jun 2008
at 12:50
  • msg #369

Re: FYI

Reference OOC Thread message number 348...its my last comment in the post.

I stated I was a pretty good FO...but its not like we are using mortars or artillery, either.
Ben Jagelis
player, 130 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 17 Jun 2008
at 12:57
  • msg #370

Re: FYI

Still better than nothing and in this darkness, it's not like the enemy is going to know that!
With a little luck they just might be convinced that's mortarfire raining down around them - the sound of firing, especially with machineguns and vehicle engines in competition, isn't all that different to a light mortar.
Fusilier
GM, 121 posts
Your Guide
Tue 17 Jun 2008
at 13:26
  • msg #371

Re: FYI

Kurt Weiss:
I stated I was a pretty good FO...but its not like we are using mortars or...


It's based on whoever has the lower skill - the gunner or the FO.

Technically before the firing can begin, the FO and gunner need to talk via radio for 6 turns - without any other action. This hasn't happened so I'm wondering how I'm going to work that out.
Helmut Meyer
player, 82 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Tue 17 Jun 2008
at 13:36
  • msg #372

Re: FYI

Nevermind. I admit I forgot to check the skills page and was only going by replies to the query.
Kurt Weiss
player, 80 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Tue 17 Jun 2008
at 13:46
  • msg #373

Re: FYI

I wouldn't treat it like an FO operation, cuz it ain't.

I'm treating it more like walking a machine gun onto target.  Its not really an FO thing we are doing.  I am telling him to go left and right, up and down.  Which is certainly similar to calling for fire, but we did not set ourselves up on a map to really know where each other are.  There are other issues, too, but we'll leave it at that.

All I know is that if he is hitting my clump of trees then he needs some distance.  I told him so.  If he starts hitting close to the road.  I will tell him to move left or right from there.  That will be harder than distance, but hopefully he will be able to key in on some burning wrecks by then.

I have some comments I am keeping to myself about the firefight because we are in the middle of it and communication time is scarce.  I will have a heck of an AAR comment or two assuming I survive this, though.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:46, Tue 17 June 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 131 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 18 Jun 2008
at 00:38
  • msg #374

Re: FYI

Yes, there's definately a lot we can do to improve for next time and I'm sure we should try and fit in some training as soon as we get the chance for the non-combat types.

It might help if those players with military experience begin to write up a brief overview now for posting after this combat - something everyone can refer to as asummary of the training the PCs will go through.

Just basic things such as fire positions, basic drills, chain of command, radio proccedure and so on. Yes, we could write a 1000 page book on it, but that's sort of defeating the point isn't it.
Marc St.Gil
player, 71 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Wed 18 Jun 2008
at 03:15
  • msg #375

Re: FYI

All things considered, we have responded perfectly for a mismashed thrown togeteher group. Some are combat trained, some are not. The combat trained come from different branches, different nations. If everything messhed and went perfectly by the book, anyones book, on the first conflict it would be a miracle.

Add all that to taking turns and trying to make sure everyone is involved and we have done resonable well for a first time. Still lots of things to improve and make clearer but it pays to keep it in perspective.
Ben Jagelis
player, 132 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 18 Jun 2008
at 03:51
  • msg #376

Re: FYI

I agree that we've done ok, but we could have done much, much better.
I've also assumed that as we've been together as a unit for at least the period since losing the division, we'd have made some attempt to get our act together.

What might be interesting is a paragraph or two from each character explaining how they believe they might have become a part of the unit. As stated, we're from all sorts of backgrounds and nationalities and it's unlikely we would have begun the Divisions advance into Poland with our current unit composition.

Obviously for those who've joined since the beginning of the game it's fairly obvious, but how would Captain Gideon or Lt Boswell for example end up riding along in a couple of combat vehicles?
Fusilier
GM, 122 posts
Your Guide
Wed 18 Jun 2008
at 05:09
  • msg #377

Re: FYI

Ben Jagelis:
Obviously for those who've joined since the beginning of the game it's fairly obvious, but how would Captain Gideon or Lt Boswell for example end up riding along in a couple of combat vehicles?


I thought of this while creating the NPCs. I envisioned the idea was from an order to disperse select individuals into different vehicles for survivability. The same idea for example when a platoon moves by helicopter it doesn't put all of its HQ in one chopper, the support in another etc - it breaks them up into different chalks in case one goes down you don't lose everyone for that element.

While this is not common practice for on ground moves - we are dealing with extraordinary situations. The division is a random mix of understrength units with limited transport. I figured because of this, it was possible.
Ben Jagelis
player, 133 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 18 Jun 2008
at 05:35
  • msg #378

Re: FYI

I can understand that, however with the limited number of armoured vehicles still operational, it doesn't make sense to withdraw them from dedicated combat units for the transport of support troops.
Far better to disburse them amongst the various trucks, buses, cars, horses, etc that aren't suitable for combat. Of course with the M2 in such poor shape, one might argue that placing it into combat might actually be more dangerous than leaving it out, but the M113? Sure it's a bit old and worn, but at least it's not blowing great clouds of black smoke and breaking down every few miles.


As the 8th began it's offensive drive near the area the Canadian forces are located, my thoughts are that Ben was reassigned to the wrong unit after recovering from injury. Either that or he purposefully jumped on the wrong transport in an effort to track down the American FO who'd nearly wiped out his plattoon a month or three earlier...

With just about anyone being grabbed for reinforcments, Ben was assigned "temporarily" to the current unit (or what's left of it) until transport back to his Canadian unit could be arranged.

I would imagine that Meyer, Jordan, McCarthy, Weiss, St Gil and Stone all share a similar story due to their combat abilities, although Jordan and McCarthy were almost certainly from the same unit to begin with and probably form the nucleus of this one.

Kelly was likely assigned as the company medic, back when there was a company, and so may have been with McCarthy and Jordan almost since he was drafted.
Fusilier
GM, 124 posts
Your Guide
Wed 18 Jun 2008
at 08:45
  • msg #379

Re: FYI

Ok new turn's post is up. Sorry if its not that descriptive or full of great narratives. Its just that nothing much has changed from the last 10 seconds so I just stuck with the basic resolution of shots. It probably makes things a little slow, but not very much can happen in 10 seconds - additional reinforcements arriving, and things like that. It takes a little time and unfortunately that means a lot of time for us. I'll try to speed up some things though.

Ben, I agree with you that it'd make more sense. But not every decision always makes sense in the army right? There are many unknown variables that could be added in as well to make it a necessary action. In any case I'll leave it up to you guys to make your own background.

I see that JJ looks like he is preparing to order the group to break contact. I don't want to steer the players but its probably a good thing. Remember you are in a division's local area. This contact is likely just a light mobile reaction force... it will only get worse the longer you remain in position.

Thanks for everyone getting your posts in and I appreciate you making the game work.
This message was last edited by the GM at 08:46, Wed 18 June 2008.
Kurt Weiss
player, 82 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Wed 18 Jun 2008
at 09:37
  • msg #380

Re: FYI

This is the HE round for the Bushmaster 25mm:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/...s/munitions/m792.htm

The M792 HEI-T round offers the accuracy and performance needed for light materiel and fire suppression. This round is used to destroy lightly armored vehicles and helicopters (armored and unarmored) and to suppress antitank guided missile (ATGM) positions, crew served weapons, dismounted infantry, and likely enemy positions past coaxial 7.62 mm machine gun range out to a distance of 3,000 meters. The HEI-T cartridge is a fixed type, percussion primed round. The cartridge consists of a high explosive incendiary (HEI) filled, one piece projectile body crimped to a steel cartridge case. The projectile body consists of a hollow steel body, M758 fuse, 32 grams of an HEI mix, and pressed in tracer. This round is fuzed with the M758 Point Detonating Self-Destruct (PDSD) fuze, developed and produced exclusively by Alliant Techsystems. The M758 provides superior arming delay, graze and extended range sensitivity, and self-destruct compared to existing medium caliber fuzes. Gases produced by the burning propellant discharge the projectile from the gun at 1,100 meters per second ( plus or minus 20 meters per second). On impact the fuse (M758) functions and the HEI filler detonates, dispersing the incendiary mixture in a 5 meter radius. If the projectile has not impacted at about 3,000 meters, the mechanical fuse will self detonate the round.
Fusilier
GM, 125 posts
Your Guide
Fri 20 Jun 2008
at 10:43
  • msg #381

Re: FYI

Everyone's got their post in. Thanks. I'll do up a turn resolution now.
Fusilier
GM, 127 posts
Your Guide
Mon 23 Jun 2008
at 00:43
  • msg #382

Re: FYI

Turn resolution up in a couple of hours once I get home from work. Not sure about Marc and Ben, but maybe we'll get a post up by then. I'm also thinking about speeding up  or condensing the withdraw a bit.
Marc St.Gil
player, 74 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Mon 23 Jun 2008
at 00:57
  • msg #383

Re: FYI

Well it should get a bit louder for a moment ladies and gents. I have decided to make a point to the lads hiding behind the cars and have unloaded on them.

5 bursts of 5 rounds each of Armor Piercing Incindiary goodness. Hopefully that will soften the bad guys moral just a bit. :)
Ben Jagelis
player, 135 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 23 Jun 2008
at 05:24
  • msg #384

Re: FYI

Eek! 25 rounds of API against a soft target? What a waste....

Shouldn't have used HE and watched the fragements cut 'em to bits!  :P
Marc St.Gil
player, 75 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Mon 23 Jun 2008
at 05:57
  • msg #385

Re: FYI

Well I had to try something new. All I have fired so far was HE.  One blown out tire and a guy ducked once. Apparently it isn't as appropriate for soft targets as I thought. :)

Got to try something new. At the least it may help keep their heads down.
Ben Jagelis
player, 137 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 23 Jun 2008
at 06:15
  • msg #386

Re: FYI

Following the rules. the API should result in better penetration and possibilty of significant damge to the vehicles, but it's highly unlikely to inflict any wounds or casualties on the people.

Again following the rules, it's probably better to hit the vehicles with HE so that the area is bathed with shrapnel. Each shard of shrapnel has almost as much chance of damaging the vehicles as the API and when in the primary burst radius (which obviously the vehicles are since they've just been hit), there's 1d6 of them per striking round, each with a PEN of 1 compared to the HE's Pen of -3 according to Pauls site or -8 I think according to the book.
API on the other hand is unlikely to produce any fragments and has a fairly low PEN of 5 (can't remember the books Pen value).

While both the HE and API Pen values get an additional 2d6 added to them for each striking round, you really need a total Pen of more than 10 to have any signifiant effect, or the chance of multiple effects.

Against an armoured vehicle, even one with a seriously light value of just 1, API is the better option, but against a soft vehicle with an effective armour of 1 only 50% of the time, HE and it's multiple hits seems to win out every time (according to the maths).

Of course the advantage of the API round is that it's an incendiary and so any hit to ammo or fuel is likely to have a much nastier end result. Hitting the ammo or fuel is of course not exactly a given....  :(
Ben Jagelis
player, 138 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 24 Jun 2008
at 01:38
  • msg #387

Re: FYI

Just like to point out that reversing the vehicles, while possible, is not something we want to try while under fire.
Just think how hard it is reversing your own car with a trailer keeping in mind that you've usually got decent vision through glass windows, use of mirrors and it's usually daylight, or at least well lit.

Here we're in very, very low light (as dark as it gets actually), under fire (directly in the case of the M2), and there's this bloody great hunk of armour between the driver and trailer blocking their line of sight.

I believe it's standard proccedure for the vehicle commander to be hanging out the top of the vehicle guiding the driver via intercom during difficult manouvers and/or a person on the ground guiding them. Neither of these is likely to be much of an option at the moment.

Ideally, we'd have everyone loaded aboard and then back out of combat showing only the vehicles more heavily armoured front to the enemy. But in this case we're really going to have to ensure the two heavier weapons are out of action before turing and exposing the weaker flanks or rear.
Ben Jagelis
player, 140 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 24 Jun 2008
at 05:41
  • msg #388

Re: FYI

Isn't the GAZ the lead vehicle and the missile launcher located at the other end?
Fusilier
GM, 129 posts
Your Guide
Tue 24 Jun 2008
at 05:59
  • msg #389

Re: FYI

Ben Jagelis:
Isn't the GAZ the lead vehicle and the missile launcher located at the other end?


GAZ is lead and it is where the ATGM is located. The team was the two men furthest south, one body is still there after getting plugged by Weiss.
Ben Jagelis
player, 141 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 24 Jun 2008
at 06:47
  • msg #390

Re: FYI

Ah, I must have misunderstood. Thanks.
Kurt Weiss
player, 85 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Wed 25 Jun 2008
at 09:18
  • msg #391

Re: FYI

Hey Folks,

I will not have a computer starting tomorrow afternoon for a few days.  The Army is moving me and my stuff will be packed and I will be travelling.  I won't have access to this game until Monday.

Weiss is more than happy to work his way back to the vehicles in the mean time.  I will have some AAR comments when I get back up and running.

Good Luck!
Fusilier
GM, 130 posts
Your Guide
Wed 25 Jun 2008
at 10:43
  • msg #392

Re: FYI

Kurt Weiss:
Hey Folks,

I will not have a computer starting tomorrow afternoon for a few days.  The Army is moving me and my stuff will be packed and I will be travelling.  I won't have access to this game until Monday.

Weiss is more than happy to work his way back to the vehicles in the mean time.  I will have some AAR comments when I get back up and running.

Good Luck!


Thanks for letting me know. Good luck with the move. See you then.
Marc St.Gil
player, 77 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Wed 25 Jun 2008
at 21:23
  • msg #393

Re: FYI

Good Luck Kurt. It will be interesting to see what people think we did right, wrong, or could have done different.
Helmut Meyer
player, 88 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sun 29 Jun 2008
at 06:19
  • msg #394

Re: FYI

Lets go fellas, get us outta here.
Fusilier
GM, 134 posts
Your Guide
Sun 29 Jun 2008
at 10:39
  • msg #395

Conclusion

Ok - finally. I hope that our first engagement wasn't too drawn out and boring. I know it'd be much more interesting if the battle was fluid but that not how it worked out this time. I hope everyone's kept up on their ammo. As per your plan we'll get back on the road momentarily.

For support weapons I have the following to be subtracted from the ammo stocks...

Bradley coax X 40
Bradley 25mm HE X 9
Bradley 25mm API X 25
M113 M2HB .50 X 23
M113 M60 X 30
Ben Jagelis
player, 144 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 30 Jun 2008
at 04:54
  • msg #396

Re: Conclusion



Now THAT's funny!
Marc St.Gil
player, 80 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Mon 30 Jun 2008
at 05:17
  • msg #397

Re: Conclusion

So, how do people think we did? What did we do wrong, what could we have done differently, and every bit as important - what did we do right?
I can think of several things in each catagory.

I held back a lot at the beguining because I didn't want the fight to just be a a quick "the bradley goes and kills every thing" kind of scenario. I didn't want people to just sit and watch while a couple of us did 95% of the activity. That and decisions resulting from it were where my larges't mistakes came from.
I was not as aggressive and was a lot more restrained in ammo usage as a result of that until the very end. That was bad.
We successfully keept the majority of the attention on the Bradley and off of the dismounts, that was a good thing.
We disabled the horse cav right at the beguining, and then disabled the AA gun, but did not follow up on that quickly. That could go either way, but I tend to view it as bad.
In large part the Bradly stopped in place and hunkered down to fight. That was in part because we are towing a flamible trailor over rough ground. That presented the heavyest armored part the front to their fire. That part is good. We then allowed them time to recover and act that was bad. We need to find another truck or two to tow the trailors and free up the AFV.
Fusilier
GM, 136 posts
Your Guide
Mon 30 Jun 2008
at 08:26
  • msg #398

Re: Conclusion

Marc St.Gil:
I held back a lot at the beginning because I didn't want the fight to just be a a quick "the Bradley goes and kills every thing" kind of scenario. I didn't want people to just sit and watch while a couple of us did 95% of the activity. That and decisions resulting from it were where my largest mistakes came from.


I wouldn't really call them mistakes myself. I prefer to limit actions that are either right or wrong to a minimum... there is just such a large grey area when in comes to tactics (at least in my opinion). Many countries (or individuals) do things differently and who's to say who is right or wrong. You can debate the pros and cons but you can't write it in stone. I don't mean all actions (some are universally agreeable), but I hope you understand what I'm getting at.

For gameplay, this point you made above is a nice one for the other players. I'll keep in mind to try as best as possible to create a wide range of battlefield situations where the group will have to adapt to the environment/enemy. As mentioned, this engagement turned out to be a simple stand off slug fest (turned one sided pretty quick). This was based on the random events, the enemy, and the ground. The next and each following battle will have a whole new set of 'specs'.
Kurt Weiss
player, 86 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Tue 1 Jul 2008
at 00:25
  • msg #399

Re: Conclusion

Alrighty,

I'm up and running again.  Only now I am balancing vacation time with the wife and catching up on a handful of games.

I'll try to post my AAR comments in character when we get into our hide.
Fusilier
GM, 137 posts
Your Guide
Tue 1 Jul 2008
at 06:37
  • msg #400

Re: Conclusion

Sorry, they'll be a little delay getting the GM post up. I can't access some things at work that I need. Welcome back Kurt.
Ben Jagelis
player, 145 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 1 Jul 2008
at 07:12
  • msg #401

Re: Conclusion

Not a bad thing. I think I need to post IC but won't be able to for another 3-4 hours from now.
Stone
player, 68 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Tue 1 Jul 2008
at 09:36
  • msg #402

Re: Conclusion

Stone, as bradley driver, thought for a minute he was infantry and so the bradley advanced towards the enemy to give support to the north OP.  ONce i realised i was a tread-head, i pulled the bradley up to engage from a distance.  I even forgot i had the trailer on!
And the ground is wet i think!

I dont think stone had communications to many people, so i found that hard.  I guess i ended up talking to Marc St Gill so that indirectly others could read my messages i coudlnt call out on radio (is that cheating???  :-)

When we get into combat, i dont know what others feelings are, but we dont need to fight until the enemy is all dead.  We can withdrawer, or beat a fighting retreat.  Once we got the upper hand i was happy to move on before our fighting attracted others to the show.  Just my view.

I've never been in the military.  But in-game i find myself wanting direction.  But i guess in the midst of a fire fight, whether the chain of command exists or not, as the bradley driver i will be making decisions and wont be taking direct orders from anyone as i "do what i think is right at the time".  To me that is part of the fun of the game, combat isnt a well drawn up play (like, say, gridiron for example).
Stone
player, 70 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Tue 1 Jul 2008
at 11:19
  • msg #403

Re: Conclusion

I guess the other thing to consider is, we dont really know, and probably never will know now, whether or not this encounter was a friendly one or not.  Sure, after we started shooting, they shot back.  But were they friendly to begin with?

One of the hardest parts of T2K is you cant tell someones orientation by their uniform (ie i am wearing a warm jacket because its cold, even though it may have russian insignia on it).

If we shoot everyone up, we'll never have a chance to know if the encounter was friendly, helpful, ambivilent or plain angry (enemy).  I'm not saying i have a solution to this, just pointing out the problem ...
Ben Jagelis
player, 146 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 1 Jul 2008
at 13:07
  • msg #404

Re: Conclusion

In answer to the points you've raised, the overall movement of the vehicle is up to the vehicles commander (JJ for the M2 or Ben for the M113). In the case of the last battle though, the commander wasn't mounted and so the job devolved to St Gil.
The driver is responsible for the detail of movement - not skylining the vehicle, picking hull down positions, etc.

As for engagement distance, that's dependant on the nature of the threat. When there is antiarmour weapons on the enemy side, it's normal practise to keep vehicles as far away as possible and let the infantry deal with the threat. When no significant antiarmour threat is evident, vehicles are often used much closer to the action, even right in amongst it, crushing enemy infantry under the tracks.

If it hadn't been for the trailer, Ben would have seriously considered moving in to point blank range, at least up until the missile was fired anyway. Instead, he had the M113 and it's crew do the next best thing - sit back and at first watch the rear before lending sustained fire support against the larger targets (ie vehicles and crew served weapons).

All vehicle crew have access to the radio as part of the intercom system. It is not however common for anyone but the vehicle commander, and perhaps the infantry unit commanders aboard each vehicle, to actually use the radio.

Overall I think communications worked out fairly well. Each of the subunit commanders (Meyer, JJ, Ben, St Gil and Weiss) had a radio link to each of the other subunits. I think this is something we want to aim for at all times.

There was however some confusion with the withdrawal with everyone heading for the M2, but I think this was mainly due to JJ mixing up the callsigns. Fortunately it all worked out in the end.

With regard to identification, I think currently we need to assume everyone with a weapon is hostile - we're in the middle of a Polish Cavalry divisions area of responsibilty after all and several other PACT units are also in the general area. This may change in the future though as we move away from what was recently an active battlezone (when the 8th came through about a week before).

Even later when we think we may be in a safer area, we should still approach every situation with an eye towards it becoming a fight. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. For example, if we were to approach an isolated farm to trade for supplies, we would post snipers, or a supporting machinegun, grenade launcher or similar in a concealed position just in case things go badly. If the trade goes off without a hitch, then the other party might never even know the support element were ever there.

Overall I think we got through the battle mainly due to luck. The weapons available were certainly not used to their fullest with only one 40mm grenade fired and a hell of a lot of rifle ammo wasted by Boswell and one or two others.

Command of subunits, whether they be formal units or ad hoc, needs tightening. Control of fire, especially of those who really aren't combat types or (like Boswell) are displaying a serious deficiency in fire discipline, etc, is very important.

It doesn't mean telling each person how many shots, which target and so on. Take Ben's "direction" of Captain Gideon for example. A few words were all it took for her to apply effective supressive fire with the M60.

Hopefully the above makes sense - I need sleep..... :(
Very interested in hearing how others see things.
Jennifer Gideon
player, 46 posts
Captain: Royal Engineers
"Blue wire Red wire hmm!"
Tue 1 Jul 2008
at 19:13
  • msg #405

Re: Conclusion

From my arm chair general position I think we struck a reasonable balance between conserving resources and overwhelming the enemy. I feel, and this may be with hindsight, that we might have been a bit more aggressive at the end and moved forward in the hope of gaining one of the vehicles or equipment. Ultimately though that is a judgement call and we all came out alive.

To my arm chair general view I think our main priority should be to try to get the vehicles/trailers repaired up to spec. Also if we haven't done so already I think it would be wise to work on the basis that worst case we cut loose the trailer and simply head for the hills. #

A still isn't exactly worth losing a man over and certainly not worth losing a Captain over :)
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 70 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Tue 1 Jul 2008
at 19:39
  • msg #406

Re: Conclusion

I had to suppress an instinct to loot that has been finely tuned over many years of role-playing where "enemy corpse" and "resupply" are often interchangeable notions. However I felt that discrestion was the better part of valour in this instance, we're not hurting for kit at the moment and I'd take getting away with no loses to getting more kit and risking heavier enemy elements hitting us any day of the week and twice on Saturdays.
Jennifer Gideon
player, 47 posts
Captain: Royal Engineers
"Blue wire Red wire hmm!"
Tue 1 Jul 2008
at 19:43
  • msg #407

Re: Conclusion

Well losing a couple of the lower ranks for a truck might have been worth it but I guess we have the burden of leadership to consider :)
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 71 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Tue 1 Jul 2008
at 19:46
  • msg #408

Re: Conclusion

Cold, real cold...
Jennifer Gideon
player, 48 posts
Captain: Royal Engineers
"Blue wire Red wire hmm!"
Tue 1 Jul 2008
at 19:50
  • msg #409

Re: Conclusion

Turn the heater on then!
Marc St.Gil
player, 81 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Tue 1 Jul 2008
at 20:46
  • msg #410

Re: Conclusion

It would have been a great advantage to get either the GAZ and ot the flatbed. I wouldnt have been that concerned with getting the AA gun, but the ability to put the trailers somewhere other than the ACV would have been a great gain.
As far as resupply/looting I could have made an argument for spending 1-3 minutes grabbing the fieldpack radio the horsemen had, the ATGM, and checking the vehicles for intel. Other than that I think pulling out was the best option. We don't need the small arms and other than what I mentioned the only thing worth grabbing would hav been medical or food.
I will admit I was surprised the HE was not more effective at affecting the dismouts I was shooting at. I thought they would catch some fragments and was hopping to break them without smashing up the vehicles.
If it had not hav been for the trailer on the Bradley I would have had Stone drive right over the car while I blew big holes in the flatbed right away so as to not give them time to set up and get comfortable with where we were and what we had.
Varis Babicevs
player, 27 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Tue 1 Jul 2008
at 22:22
  • msg #411

Re: Conclusion


As a highly qualified Chairborne Ranger, I'd say we made out fairly well. We made some mistakes but it was our first time (as players, at least) working together as a team while under fire. And hey, sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. For the most part, the dice certainly went our way this time around.

The only thing I think that really could have cost us is splitting the unit up into so many different groups. We violated the principle of mass by splitting our forces into too many pieces against a materially superior force. I'm not sure we could have avoided splitting our forces given that we had to defend against two groups of bogeys, but at one time we had four different units (the Bradley, the M113, the scouts, and dismount group 2) operating outside of voice range from one another. We also had multiple groups moving at once, in the dark, undire fire. Without more radios and NVGs, it was recipe for Blue on Blue.

That said, Stone's innitiative to move the Bradley to support the scouts probably saved their lives. That man deserves a medal.

I think we probably should have left dismount group 2 covering the road, had the Bradley and M113 cover the scouts as they pulled back to the Brad, and then had the Brad move back to the road with the M113 providing cover fire. That would have cut down on the splitting and moving.

Anyway, its easy to play quarterback on Monday morning and drive from the back seat. Hindsight is 20/20. All things considered, I think that we did just fine.

Ben Jagelis:
Overall I think we got through the battle mainly due to luck. The weapons available were certainly not used to their fullest with only one 40mm grenade fired and a hell of a lot of rifle ammo wasted by Boswell and one or two others.


Varis really didn't want to fire his 40mm blind. He only has 12, wait, 11 rounds for his BG-15. And firing at maximum range with friendly elements between him and the unseen enemy was probably an unecessary risk given the unlikely probability of any reward connected with the action. Luckily, none of our guys got hurt.

As for the rifle ammo, they had a direct LOS to a target at the edge of max effective range. I think they made the right choice by trying to be "the firstest with the mostest". At the very least, they helped reduce the accuracy of the enemy fire.
Ben Jagelis
player, 148 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 2 Jul 2008
at 01:42
  • msg #412

Re: Conclusion

Marc St.Gil:
I will admit I was surprised the HE was not more effective at affecting the dismouts I was shooting at. I thought they would catch some fragments and was hopping to break them without smashing up the vehicles.

Looking at the die roller, it appears HE wasn't effective simply because the concussion and fragmentation effects weren't being applied by the GM. As I've previously posted here in OOC, if they had, there'd be fragments zipping about, albeit in a small radius, slicing through flesh and machinery.
Varis Babicevs:
The only thing I think that really could have cost us is splitting the unit up into so many different groups.

It didn't really matter than much due to the subunit commanders all being in radio touch with each other. Also, it's quite common for vehicles to operate hundreds, even thousands of metres apart to take advantage of the terrain and their mobility - eg one sits in place fixing the enemy with sustained fire, while the remainder move around to assault the position for another direction. This tactics is commonly used with infantry also - to subunit in intial contact with the enemy fixes them in place and often provides fire support during the assault by the remainder of the unit.

If we didn't have communications on such a low level, then splitting up like that could well have resulted in disaster. Back when I was in the infantry, we were very lucky to have a single radio issued to the section (9-10 men). Here we had at least three times that ratio - only four people did not have immdiate access to radio communications. These were (as far as I can work out), Creswick, Boswell, Kelly and Babicevs (not counting Handley) who were all within speaking range of either Meyer or JJ.
Varis Babicevs:
Varis really didn't want to fire his 40mm blind. He only has 12, wait, 11 rounds for his BG-15. And firing at maximum range with friendly elements between him and the unseen enemy was probably an unecessary risk....

Think of it this way. You have 11 rounds of HE which is 11 more than none.
It's like the supply officer saying "No, you can't have that vital peice of equipment because we've only got 11 - somebody might need it."

40mm grenades are also far more accurate than you might think. Although a very different weapon to a rifle as it's a much slower projectile with a much higher arc, in my experience with the M79 and M203, even at maximum range of 400m, it's still possible to hit a man sized target 9 out of 10 times (provided they don't see it coming and step aside!)

The application of firepower in initial stages of a battle can greatly reduce the number of casualties recieves as well as reduce the overall ammunition consumed. A long drawn out fight can chew through far more ammo, even at a low rate of fire, than a short, sharp engagement. Personally, I like the short and sharp as it's all over before you've even time to realise that you're in danger! Draw it out and people start to think too much.

Also, 40mmS HE isn't exactly uncommon, even for the year 2000. It's bound to be even more common due to our current location deep in the heart of several Pact divisions area of opperations. Don't forget that you can change weapons down the track if ammo becomes and issue.
Varis Babicevs:
As for the rifle ammo, they had a direct LOS to a target at the edge of max effective range. I think they made the right choice by trying to be "the firstest with the mostest". At the very least, they helped reduce the accuracy of the enemy fire.

I believe that the light level was at the lowest possible. Dark conditions (night), with no moon, and steady rain reduce vision to a pathetic base of just 50 metres. As both of the two dismount teams never got within about 300m, it was really only when the ZU and missile fired that they'd have had any chance at all of even locating the enemy force. If it wasn't for the tracer and impacts of 25mm incendiaries, even a general direction might have been difficult to ascertain.

With that in mind, firing of any weapon, especially small arms, is next to useless. Fortunately the 25mm and .50 cal were being fired by people with vision aids (not to mention several individuals on the ground).

Firing blind off into the darkness is unlikely to do anything beyond let the enemy know approximately where you are and what you're armed with. At night when in defence, a machinegunner for example MAY NOT fire their weapon unless specifically ordered to by the unit commander. When in a section standing patrol for example (10 men dug in by themselves), this is the section commander, for a plattoon defensive postion, it's the Lieutenant (or Sgt if the LT is missing/wounded, etc), for a company (100+ men), it's up to the Company commander. In almost no circumstances may a commander lower down the chain make the decison to fire UNLESS the position is in immediate danger of being overrun.

This is to prevent valuable intel being given away about the location of suporting weapons. If a machinegun, or other squad/section suport weapon (antiarmour, mortars, automatic grenade launchers, etc) is fired, it's almost inevitable that a) the entire unit will relocate, or at least reorientate and resight weapons, and b) the offending person will recieve a large number of boots in their rear (nobody likes to pack up, move and then dig in again in the dark).

The same general principle applies in normal combat. You fire your weapon without a target and you're giving away your position. Chances are, especially in a siutation like just passed, the enemy don't even know you're there and so you can either move around in relative safety (without drawing unwanted fire), or lay in wait and ambush the enemy when they come close.

All that said, there are exceptions to firing blind. For example, machineguns, and even rifles can be set to fire on "fixed lines". Stakes, or other guides of some type are set into the ground. These represent the limits in which a weapon may fire. Naturally this is primarily used in the defence, prepared fire support for an assault, or in a prepared ambush.

These stakes may allow a wide arc or, especially for machineguns, restrict the weapon to a very narrow, even linear area of fire. These limits allow the weapon to be fired into an area the firer cannot themselves see into due to foliage, smoke, darkness, etc, without risking the safety of friendly forces who presumabley had been told to keep clear of these fire lanes). But, once again, fire is strictly controlled from above.

This is were forward observers come into their own also. Although the range, direction and so on were not previously fixed, firing the grenade launchers was still a very useful tactic as firstly there was someody (Weiss) who actually had eyes on the target and the ability to adjust, and secondly, they're area effect weapons - near enough is generally good enough.

I think the greatest contributor to restricting enemy fire volume and accuracy was simply the darkness. Firing of our weapons allowed the enemy to locate our positions and return fire. Engine noise was another huge contributor to this, but something that, unlike outgoing fire, was a necessary evil.


The way I see it, the enemy were unaware, or just hadn't taken into account our night vision advantage. If they had, they would not have approached so close with the unarmoured vehicles and instead set up an ambush down the road for us. With the Missile launcher and ZU, they could have taken out both vehicles in short order with most of the passengers with them.

But that assumes they even knew where we were heading, and even our position to begin with. If it had been me in command of the Poles, I would have had the cavalry do almost exactly what they did - locate the vehicles and radio it in to the reaction force. They would then do as I've suggested above and set up an ambush.

And so I repeat my earlier statement that we were damn lucky and qualify it somewhat by stating the enemy commander didn't appear to be all that good.

The above was written in several stages while trying to concentrate on end of financial year work (nightmare) and dodge the boss. Hope it's not too rambling.
Fusilier
GM, 140 posts
Your Guide
Wed 2 Jul 2008
at 01:59
  • msg #413

Re: Conclusion

Ben Jagelis:
Looking at the die roller, it appears HE wasn't effective simply because the concussion and fragmentation effects weren't being applied by the GM.


Correct. The HE wasn't as effective as it might have been simply because while hits were registered on the vehicles - there were no living bodies either close enough to the impacts or they were behind suitable cover (ie the other side of the truck).

The HE did minimal damage but had it been successful in catching enemy, it would have been casualty producing.
Stone
player, 71 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Wed 2 Jul 2008
at 02:42
  • msg #414

Re: Conclusion

Varis Babicevs:
That said, Stone's innitiative to move the Bradley to support the scouts probably saved their lives. That man deserves a medal.

</quote>


Whoa!  Great idea!!  Now i just need to make sure at least one of you guys makes it back to friendly lines so that i have someone to collaborate my story :-)
Fusilier
GM, 141 posts
Your Guide
Wed 2 Jul 2008
at 08:02
  • msg #415

Re: Conclusion

Fuel has been transfered from the 1000L trailer to the top off the vehicles.
Ben Jagelis
player, 149 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Thu 3 Jul 2008
at 03:56
  • msg #416

Re: Conclusion

We might as well assume that much of the meeting is what's been discussed in this thread plus whatever else those who haven't contributed have to say. I can see the after action analysis taking up a week or two real time while IC would be maybe 15-20 minutes.
Ic we should probably just deal with what we intend to do in the next 24 hours and so on leaving the indepth stuff for here.

Still really interested to hear what everyones got to say about the fight, especially Weiss/Doji Hoturi.
Fusilier
GM, 144 posts
Your Guide
Thu 3 Jul 2008
at 08:59
  • msg #417

Re: Conclusion

Ben Jagelis:
We might as well assume that much of the meeting is what's been discussed in this thread plus whatever else those who haven't contributed have to say. I can see the after action analysis taking up a week or two real time while IC would be maybe 15-20 minutes.
Ic we should probably just deal with what we intend to do in the next 24 hours and so on leaving the indepth stuff for here.

Still really interested to hear what everyones got to say about the fight, especially Weiss/Doji Hoturi.


Ok. I suppose it'll keep things moving without having everyone waiting for 3-4 people to talk back and forth. Do so here.

Next morning.

- Anyone disagrees and wants to have something said last night just let me know.
This message was last edited by the GM at 09:00, Thu 03 July 2008.
Fusilier
GM, 145 posts
Your Guide
Thu 3 Jul 2008
at 13:52
  • msg #418

Re: Conclusion

Handley passed off the AKM rifle he collected. Nobody has posted an interest in taking it (its only got the one mag) so I'll just add it to the stores.

I edited the food supply as well after the breakfast was removed. With 14 soldiers you now have exactly 6 more meals worth on full rations.
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:58, Thu 03 July 2008.
Tom Handley
player, 18 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Thu 3 Jul 2008
at 15:45
  • msg #419

Re: Conclusion

Does that include the 3 meals in Handley's rucksack?
Fusilier
GM, 146 posts
Your Guide
Thu 3 Jul 2008
at 17:13
  • msg #420

Re: Conclusion

Tom Handley:
Does that include the 3 meals in Handley's rucksack?


It does now, thanks.
Kurt Weiss
player, 88 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Thu 3 Jul 2008
at 17:15
  • msg #421

Re: Conclusion

Sorry about my delayed response.  I will post my opinion of what happened.

I was hoping the OP could (should?) have waited until the group to the south initiated contact.  Perhaps we could have waited a little longer, but not much.  Water under the bridge, we shot first without positive ID although it is highly likely they were guys that would prefer us dead.  I was actually considering waiting until they got within about 30-50m rather than the 75-100m that we engaged at, but spilt milk and all that.

The initial two or three rounds of combat were brutal and smooth.  Well done.

It was the engagement with the vehicles to the north that had me frustrated.  I was hoping for a more decisive/aggressive engagment from our own vehicles against theirs.  We had armor, they didn't.  Granted it would have been relatively slow movement for the Brad considering the trailer, but in my opinion, it should have been making steady movement closer to the enemy the entire time.  HE should have been the only thing coming out of the 25mm and there should have been a lot of it.  Also, the fire into the enemy vehicles should have been dispersed better.  Too much focus on the lead vehicle when the second vehicle had the AA gun.  A few rounds into the rear vehicle would have been good, too.  Basically, spread the love and give extra love to obvious threats.

When the call came to disengage requesting the OP move its way to the Brad, I was a little surprised.  We had not yet overwhelmed the enemy and you just asked dismounts to move 300m in the open while there was still automatic fire coming from the enemy.  That is why Weiss stayed in position until they broke.  When he told Fox to move, it was a slight miscommunication on his part.  He meant for Fox to reposition to more thoroughly engage the enemy to silence fire from their direction so that we could pull out in safety to our static vehicles.  The Bradley, in my opinion, should have been moving steadily to the south edge of the woodline to pick us up.

If the Brad and 113 had not engaged the vehicle column in the first place, it is likely the OP just would have watched and reported only rather than engage.  We had effectivly neutralized the threat to the west so we could just sit and watch the vehicles unnoticed by them.  I counted on the bulk of the fire from the enemy vehicle column to be directed to our vehicles and that is why Weiss felt confidant engaging as he did.

I think if the vehicles, particularly the Brad, had been more actively engaged by maneuvering toward the enemy and blazing HE the whole firefight, it might have resolved a couple rounds earlier and we would have been in a better place to maybe take advantage of some looting/intel gains.  Speculation for sure, but I think rather likely.

Radios are well distributed.  One per team is as good as we are gonna get and that is usually enough.

Ammo is not really an issue, yet, so don't hold back too much.  Except for perhaps a little lesson in fire control for our less experienced folks, sending a good amount of lead down range is not a bad thing in itself.

Basically it comes down to Speed, Surprise and Violence of Action.  We had Surprise (at first) and Violence of Action but we left out Speed entirely.  Speed is what you need to maintain when Surprise is lost.  We chose to be relatively static and I think it led to a longer firefight and a loss of an opportunity for intel/loot.

...and in regards to Fox's IC surprise about Weiss not having the watch schedule ready, it was already ready, I just said 'on it' rather than 'done it' to let the LT think that he has a job...  :)
Arthur Fox
player, 35 posts
Sergeant
British Army
Thu 3 Jul 2008
at 18:50
  • msg #422

Re: Conclusion

Ok as we’re not doing this IC then I just as well put in my pennies worth. Most of what I have to add has been mentioned by one or the other.

First, as Fox was the first to open fire, I want to straighten one thing out. Weiss, I was in complete agreement with you on the range see the following part from post #280.

quote:
"You do know those four are probably coming to hide in this patch of trees to outflank our guys on the road, right. Good chance they will be on top of us before their comrades move on along the road. I’d rather engage with surprise and range still in our favor. Let’s say 50 meters?"


It just turned out somewhat different, I think, because of a miscommunication in a PM, where I stated I would engage when they entered close range. But things turned out on that end.

I also agree with Weiss on the callback order. Moving the distance over flat terrain partly between lines of fire was not a real option. The route Fox would have taken would have added another 100 or so meters just to make it safe. Although bullets were flying the OP had a better chance staying in their position. This is where I agree the Bradley should have closed towards their position.

So why did Fox move  on Weiss “Move” order this was based on the fact he had no idea what was happening behind him. He only heard increased fire on their position. This added to the comment from Weiss in msg # 326 made him move out on the order.

I think on the whole there is some room of improvement in communications, see above situation between Weiss and Fox. Another is where the Major made the little mistake of confusing Meyer and Weiss. In fact this could have been avoided staying to call signs used for each group OP, FT1 and FT2. But I noticed some other glitches in communications.

Think that’s about the only addition I have on this matter. Personally I don't think it would have mattered if the vehicles took a more offensive stance as compared to how they operated.

On the other point, Weiss, Fox was not suprised why you hadn’t made the roster yet. He only wondered why he wasn’t on it. But the major cleared that up nicely I think.
Marc St.Gil
player, 84 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Thu 3 Jul 2008
at 20:42
  • msg #423

Re: Conclusion

Over all it seems like we are in agreement. We started out good, stalled abit and then caught up.
There was some miscommunication, in part because we were making up some of the call signs as we went as well as mixing them up.
The Bradley was not as aggresive as needed, in part due to the trailer and in part due to me making an OOC decision not to over shadow everyone and go a little slower.
We make it through with no big loss, as along as we correct the things we can do better and learn we are ahead.
Ben Jagelis
player, 151 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 4 Jul 2008
at 04:55
  • msg #424

Re: Conclusion

Regarding callsigns, see message #3 link to a message in this game
These were put in place well before we sent out the initial clearning patrol that found the lake we went fishing in. It will of course need some updating now we've got Babicevs and Handley along for the ride.

I had considered, and in fact discussed by PM with the GM, moving the M113 forward to pick up, or at least support the OP team later in the battle. Again it was the trailer, specifically the poor state of the hitch that made me stay in place and offer only longer range fire support.

My choice of targets was based on blocking the collumns forward progress by taking out the lead vehicle, and the limited effectiveness of the M2HB against vehicles and personel compared to 25mm HE. Only once the lead vehicle appeared to be disabled did I feel changing targets was really possible.

I was a little suprised that the M2 was firing API, especially after my OOC comments about the effectiveness of HE on soft targets. Even putting aside the shrapnel and blast damage of HE, just the visual would be enough to instill just a tiny bit of fear into those at the receiving end. API on the other hand is a single projectile lacking these extra psychological benefits. Mind you, I'd rather not be receiving either one if given the choice!

Another issue, which wasn't cleared up until right at the end of the the combat, was the unrealistic recoil of the M2HB. The way the book handles it, it's far, far more effective to fire it with single quick shots than bursts at anything beyond point blank range. Once this was discussed with the GM and a decision made on the subject, Ben began using the weaponin a manner more like it was intended. For a while there I was actually considering ditching it and using his C-9 minimi!

While I'm all for laying down plenty of fire, it needs to be effective. Firing off into the darkness as quickly as you can pull the trigger (looking directly at Boswell here), is about as far from effective as you can get. In my opinion, only those who could actually see the enemy should have fired, unless somebody else was spotting for them.

Captain Gideon for example did not (as far as I know), have any night vision equipment, however their fire could be considered effective as they were firing along the same line as Ben's (who had NVGs) .50 cal tracer.
Firing of explosive grenades, mortars, etc should almost always be considered effective blind fire, especially when somebody (such as Weiss in this case) was available and willing to provide corrections.

Individual subunit commanders need to take a tight hold of their units members also. To be brutally honest, Meyer did fairly well, however JJ virtually neglected Boswell and Kelly who were left to waste ammo. Admittedly JJ did have a few things on his mind, such as trying to control the entire battlefield.
Arthur Fox
player, 37 posts
Sergeant
British Army
Fri 4 Jul 2008
at 18:23
  • msg #425

Re: Conclusion

Three things in response to previous message.

About the callsigns, what I wanted to point out is we need to get a system and work it. I know there is a list of callsigns that can be used, and it was used during battle. During battle though it might be more effective to break this down in naming the different teams operating like the major did. Point is, I think, we need to pick a system and stick to it.

About the recoil of the  M2HB, I did not respond to previous posts about this as I was a bit confused about the discussion. I always understood from the rules that vehicle mounted weapons had negligible recoil.  I must confess I started looking for it in the book and this rule is not really specified. The only reference to this rule is under the KPV where it states with recoil values:

The KPV is always mounted on a vehicle or field carriage, and so has negligible recoil.


Finally when it comes to how the subunits were organized this might be a point of attention next time. JJ had to put all his attention to the battlefield, there was no time for him to micromanage the subunit. (he could have as a player, but with every turn taking a few seconds in game time there was no way he could have instructed those around him). Next time I think we should have the more experienced people in the majors subunit, or one at least, to take care of the unit management so the major can keep his eyes on the big picture.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 74 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Fri 4 Jul 2008
at 18:34
  • msg #426

Re: Conclusion

That's what I was trying to simulate, given the time of each round, I think I still said too much. Micromanaging the team too seemed to be pushing it a little further than game reality would allow. That said I'd have probably made a hash of it.

Many of the decisions I made were advised by a much-appreciated PM from Ben, the ideas were his, the poor execution was mine.

I re-read the M2 recoil rules as well and found them obscure, if the mount on the M113 is like a tripod, I'd rule one way, if it's a proper weapon's mount, another, I think Ben was right to check with the GM first, that way we go with one interpretation.

I'd agree that if JJ is going to act in this co-ordination roll, he'll need a more experienced team.
Arthur Fox
player, 38 posts
Sergeant
British Army
Fri 4 Jul 2008
at 18:54
  • msg #427

Re: Conclusion

It goes without question Ben was right to ask the GM about it. He's the one that has final say in everything. I just wanted to point that if it were me behind that gun I would have never thought of recoil because I'd have assumed it was negligible.

BTW, what do you mean poor execution, you should read the battle report. I'd say it was a great success ;).
Fusilier
GM, 147 posts
Your Guide
Fri 4 Jul 2008
at 19:06
  • msg #428

Re: Conclusion

I reevaluated the recoil listed in the book. Having used the .50 on a tripod (but not fired from a vehicle mount) I agree think its too high. Using other sources, I agreed to use different recoil values. I like to use the official rules as much as possible, but have to accept the in some cases other people have much more experience in technical aspects and have put more research into realistic rules.

JJ is right that he cannot really effectively command a subunit too closely and coord the rest of the group. Its just too much to do in the short action turns of the game - which happen to get played out for a long time IRL. Meyer did well as an NCO so I might suggest using either him (and/or a 2nd NCO to run the dismounts). This'll leave JJ to do his real job. He's a major and should be delegating subunits  via their commanders... not individual riflemen.

Whats the plan of action for the next few hours? Stay and rest/maintence? Do patrolling, or head out on the planned route?

BTW - Agreed with Fox. The execution was fine. You guys are doing well for running an AAR to improve but its not like it was a mess. It was as good especially considering the confusion that'll be expected.
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:09, Fri 04 July 2008.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 75 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Fri 4 Jul 2008
at 19:12
  • msg #429

Re: Conclusion

When it came to execution, I was talking about myself, no criticism of others was intended.

I'll outline a sugessted outline for the day IC.
Varis Babicevs
player, 29 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Fri 4 Jul 2008
at 22:32
  • msg #430

Re: Conclusion

John Jameson McCarthy:
Many of the decisions I made were advised by a much-appreciated PM from Ben, the ideas were his, the poor execution was mine.


I guess the two of you don't see a problem with this but it makes me kind of uncomfortable. First off, IRL, folks don't have the time to sit down, think through the situation, discuss it with others, and make decisions while under fire. I wouldn't call it cheating but it does sort of violate the spirit of this sort of game, IMO.

Furthermore, this sort of covert communication gives a lot of influence to the players who are both making IC decisions and taking IG action for their own PC while also directing others to do likewise from "off stage".

I'm not sure why whatever was discussed via PM was not incorporated into public IC exchanges. Seems like it would have made for perfectly acceptable RP'ing situation.

But, whether this sort of thing is permitted to continue is up to our top-notch GM to decide.

Sorry to be such a wet blanket but I feel kind of strongly about this kind of thing.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:39, Fri 04 July 2008.
Kurt Weiss
player, 89 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Fri 4 Jul 2008
at 23:53
  • msg #431

Re: Conclusion

I agree with you to a point, Varis.

However, perhaps an exception might be made for tactical decisions where those who have never really been in or led a real life fire team, squad, or platoon are in positions of leadership within the game.

Nonetheless, although tactical brilliance is not exclusive to those who have had real life experience, likewise experience is not an absolute cure for tactical ineptitude.

Some of that stuff might be worked out with game mechanics.  Hopefully with the right skill set, we can use the GM to mitigate some of our worse tactical decisions.

I think in the grand scheme of things, though, I would rather that PMs, except those from the GM, not be utilized in tactical decisions in the future.  As it is, I tried to make an effort not to include too much of Weiss' intent or worries in his posts to avoid someone keying off that and change what they might be doing under an illusion of communication that never happened.

We can chat all we want before and after the firefights, but we should seriously limit what we say to each other when the bullets are actually flying.
Fusilier
GM, 148 posts
Your Guide
Sat 5 Jul 2008
at 01:32
  • msg #432

Re: Conclusion

Varis Babicevs:
John Jameson McCarthy:
Many of the decisions I made were advised by a much-appreciated PM from Ben, the ideas were his, the poor execution was mine.


I guess the two of you don't see a problem with this but it makes me kind of uncomfortable. First off, IRL, folks don't have the time to sit down, think through the situation, discuss it with others, and make decisions while under fire. I wouldn't call it cheating but it does sort of violate the spirit of this sort of game, IMO.

Furthermore, this sort of covert communication gives a lot of influence to the players who are both making IC decisions and taking IG action for their own PC while also directing others to do likewise from "off stage".

I'm not sure why whatever was discussed via PM was not incorporated into public IC exchanges. Seems like it would have made for perfectly acceptable RP'ing situation.

But, whether this sort of thing is permitted to continue is up to our top-notch GM to decide.

Sorry to be such a wet blanket but I feel kind of strongly about this kind of thing.


You raise a good (and honest) point.

I don't mind OOC help - as long as the receiver doesn't mind (very important) and its neutral for the party. In this case, Mark doesn't have the skills or experience his PC has, so getting a little suggestion for how tactics are often done doesn't seem to hurt IMO. Just as someone playing a doctor (any one a doctor here IRL) may want to know how some medical procedure is done on a patient.

Rae's point about it being done openly might be a good idea. It'll help with the second point I made above about keeping it neutral. Lets try to do this in the future alright?
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 77 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sat 5 Jul 2008
at 08:16
  • msg #433

Re: Conclusion

That's fine by me, Ben's help was great and having it in the OOC thread instead of a PM would be fine. He suggested things my character might know that I didn't, there was never an attempt to make me do anything.
Fusilier
GM, 149 posts
Your Guide
Sat 5 Jul 2008
at 17:30
  • msg #434

Re: Conclusion

Whats the plan fellas? JJ, you sticking to your suggestion of hanging tight for the day? Patrol or no?
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 78 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sat 5 Jul 2008
at 18:56
  • msg #435

Re: Conclusion

JJ would like to send a 2-3 man patrol to scout out their route, I'm waiting for the scouts or someone else to chime in to say if it's a good idea or not. A patrol toward the coast would be ideal, but if people think it's suicidal, it's a no-go. As for the rest of us I'd suggest alternating shifts so everyone gets some sleep and these things in order of priority:

Perimeter security patrol   Fix trailer
PSP                         Maintain vehicles
PSP                         Maintain weapons and other equipment

At full dark, we would then follow a route set out by the scouts to the coast, cross the Vistula and find a place to hide up for the day. rest the scouts, rinse and repeat.
Marc St.Gil
player, 86 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 03:30
  • msg #436

Re: Conclusion

Sounds like a good plan to me. We need more intel on the area and our route. With the condition of our vehicles we need the maintenence as well.

What is the situation on fuel? How much do we have left? We are going to have to find a place to hold up and run the still if we cannot find fuel to trade or steal, otherwise we have to start hoofing it.
Fusilier
GM, 150 posts
Your Guide
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 03:48
  • msg #437

Re: Conclusion

Marc St.Gil:
What is the situation on fuel?


See the second last post in "Vehicles & Party Stores".

Started fuel - 2180 liters
Current fuel - 1550 liters
(Doesn't include the 250 liters of diesel)

So you've about 70% remaining after traveling from the last hide to the current. It was about 70km in distance. Thinking ahead... the first bridge is about 30 km away, and the second crossing another 20 km after that. So getting across the river will probably put the party at half fuel remaining.

Edit - Small adjustment to fuel consumption. I was multiplying the meth factor by 3 (as in ethanol) instead of 3.5

You've got a little more than 4 hours of continuous travel.
This message was last edited by the GM at 06:41, Sun 06 July 2008.
Helmut Meyer
player, 92 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 03:52
  • msg #438

Re: Conclusion

JJ's plan to scout the route is good. But keep in mind all of our portable radios are short ranged only. Once the patrol leaves they will be isolated. If something happens to either group the other won't know.
Ben Jagelis
player, 153 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 07:05
  • msg #439

Fuel

As posted IC, I'm not too keen on hanging about in one location too long. According the the map, we're currently holed up just half a mile away from buildings in almost any direction. At this time we do not know if they are inhabited or not, or if the inhabitants (if any) have reported our presence.
Regardless what we may hope for, both vehicles aren't built for stealth. There is a very good chance that in the much quieter world of T2K (no planes, tucks, heavy machinery, etc filling the air with nose pollution), even a half deaf old man would hear us coming five minutes away.

Now down in the south of Poland where something like 97% of the population have been killed it might be a different matter, but up here in the north?


Overall I think everyone played their characters fairly well in the battle. Next time though I suggest JJ remain in the commanders seat of the M2 where he has access to all the high tech communications and vision devices of the vehicle.

Ben, as an infantry officer, would much prefer to be out on the ground himself than stuck in a vehicle, however, until he can train up Captain Gideon on the M2HB and is confident in her abilities controlling the vehicle, he's not too keen on reliquishing command of the M113.

What I would like to see is an infantry team of Fox, Creswick, Meyer, Weiss, Boswell, Handley, Kelly, Babicevs and Ben, split into three smaller "squads". These might be as follows:

1) Weiss, Fox & Meyer as the scouting element
2) Creswick, Babicevs and Handley as Grenadiers/rifle squad
3) Ben, Boswell and Kelly as command/machineguns

As Creswick's player appears to have dissappeared, perhaps reallocating his GL to another player and shuffling the squad members about might be worth considering (I hate leaving good weapons in the hands of NPCs). JJ's tactical radio may also need reallocating to the grenadier commander.

My preference would be to have Meyer or Fox in charge of the GL squad, but as those two (along with Weiss) are the best we seem to have at stealth....
Boswell would be rearmed with the M60 from the M113 and Ben would still have his C-9 minimi which together provides a tremendous volume of supporting fire. Kelly would act as M60 No2 and carry extra ammo for the '60 (Ben's fine without an assistant).
Antiarmour weapons would be carried as standard issue by Kelly, and perhaps some of the scout element (although not necessarily fired by them).

Under NO circumstances would Ben be happy with Boswell commanding the M113, and he's almost as unhappy with him on the ground. Only because he'd be able to give close supervison is he all that willing to allow him to fire any weapon. Bowell also outranks all the other infantry team members so would be free to ignore their "advice".

Anyone got any thoughts on this? I'm open to suggestions and alterations, even tossing the whole proposal out and starting again.

Squads one and two would ride in the M2 with squad three in the M113.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 79 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 08:07
  • msg #440

Re: Fuel

This sounds a good system to me.
Fusilier
GM, 151 posts
Your Guide
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 08:38
  • msg #441

Re: Fuel

Ben Jagelis:
As Creswick's player appears to have disappeared...


Yes, Creswick is an NPC. His player had to back out because he wasn't able to keep up with the game quite a while ago. I forgot that I never got around to mentioning this. Feel free to switch up his weapons.

Don't worry about Boswell being in any group with regards to rank. He understands that his rank is forfeited due to his lack of infantry skills/experience.

Whats the passenger loadout now?
This message was last edited by the GM at 08:40, Sun 06 July 2008.
Arthur Fox
player, 40 posts
Sergeant
British Army
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 09:41
  • msg #442

Re: Fuel


Honestly I’m not all to impressed with the squad formations. Forming squads based on their roles will increase squad dependency and weaken individual squad operations. I’d suggest mixing roles so each squad posses a GL capability and high firepower (also a medic in each squad might be an idea).  Also I would not group up the snipers (Fox, Weiss) in a combat squad. Snipers, like last battle proves have a very controlling ability on the battlefield, but their abilities depend on stealth.

Also a scout squad, like you suggest, does not make sense the way I see it. Scouting is a theater role.  I agree Weiss, Fox and Meyer are the right people for a scouting group, the same way as Jordan and Stone fit the role of mechanics.

My suggestion for battlefield operations is:
1)     Meyer, Babicevs, Boswell, Kelly
2)     Ben, Creswick, Handley
Free role:  Fox, Weiss
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 83 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 10:08
  • msg #443

Foxholes

Glancing up from banging on the trailer hitch with a big hammer Gideon says,

"Do you think we should think about digging fox holes, to provide us with some cover?"


When the GM described us setting up and referred to "other soldierly duties", I'd assumed that digging in had occured. If it hasn't, we'll need to do it although if we meet anyone here, we'll probably be running rather than fighting.


Also, any comment's on Fox's suggestions for units? I can see the merit in this too but I'd rather go with a consensus than dictate.
Fusilier
GM, 152 posts
Your Guide
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 10:25
  • msg #444

Re: Foxholes

John Jameson McCarthy:
When the GM described us setting up and referred to "other soldierly duties", I'd assumed that digging in had occured. If it hasn't, we'll need to do it although if we meet anyone here, we'll probably be running rather than fighting.


No, I didn't take it into concluded activities. I know units usually dig in a little (foxholes or shellscrapes or whatever the term for the various armies)... but left this up to you. It will take more time and manpower (you're already camming vehicles and such) so I left it to your decision.
This message was last edited by the GM at 10:26, Sun 06 July 2008.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 84 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 10:28
  • msg #445

Re: Foxholes

OK, I'll get on it.
Marc St.Gil
player, 87 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 11:08
  • msg #446

Re: Foxholes

Sounds like reasonable teaming to me. Also keep in mind that Marc while not a specialist can cover the basic rifleman or machine gunner roll in a group if needed as well. While I am not particularly good with a GL I am good with a MG and have good observational skills. Of course that takes me away from being available as a gunner on the M2 or helping the mechanics, but it is a valid choice in a group this small.

As far as staying in the area long term I agree not such a good option, I just wasn't sure how much go juice we had left. After another 4 hours or so of movement we are going to be stuck for a while or having to resupply on fuel. I just thought it was worth being sure how far we could go before we have to stop.

If we could find a nice abandond farmstead with a barn to hide the tracks in that might be just as good as a nice wooded spot to hold up. Just something to keep in mind.
Helmut Meyer
player, 94 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 11:26
  • msg #447

Re: Foxholes

Marc St.Gil:
After another 4 hours or so of movement we are going to be stuck for a while or having to resupply on fuel. I just thought it was worth being sure how far we could go before we have to stop.

If we could find a nice abandoned farmstead with a barn to hide the tracks in that might be just as good as a nice wooded spot to hold up. Just something to keep in mind.


Marc brings up a really important point here. We are already nearing the halfway point of motor travel. We should be careful how much we spend and where we go as every drop will count. After the next period of travel we are going to be stationary wherever we end up (for a while anyways).
Ben Jagelis
player, 155 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 12:23
  • msg #448

Re: Fuel

Arthur Fox:
Honestly I’m not all to impressed with the squad formations.

Well, it's based very, very heavily on my years in the Australian infantry and a formula proven over many decades and in many conflicts.
We had nine man sections as standard, although if manpower was available, ten was prefered. Each section was made up as follows:

Scout group consisting of two men armed with assault rifles or SMGs if something heavier and automatic wasn't available. The Section commander, a Corporal (equivalent to a US Sergeant - E5), could be considered to be a part of this group.

Machinegun group consisted of the M60 gunner, no2 gunner (with spare barrel, cleaning kit and as much ammo as he could carry) and the section 2IC who was in a perfect world a Lance Corporal (E4 US Corporal).

And the Rifle group which was "led" by the senior Private in the section. This group carried the grenade launcher (either an M203 or M79), radio if issued, antiarmour weapons and just about anything else required.

Note that unlike in US squads, the Section commander is responsible solely for tactics while the 2IC takes care of the administraive and logistical side of things.

We are not currently so overloaded with available combat troops that we can really afford to loose anyone to go heading off on their own. Although I greatly appreciate the value of snipers, it seems that as two of our infantry are medics (essentially non-combat) and another is virtually useless (Boswell), we're left with only 6 effectives, one of which is currently wounded (Handley).

I'm not saying that individuals or small groups of two or three will never be sent out alone, just that when combat eventuates, we'd better be prepared to act as an integrated unit without having individuals running off on their own and potentially jepardising the overall battle by not being where the commander (JJ) expects them to be.

I would have liked to distribute the GLs amongst the elements, but feel it's important to have Boswell under strict control. Kelly also seems to need guidance and is only armed with a carbine anyway - far from the perfect weapon on the battlefield in my opinion (although certianly better that his original MP5!) Placing a GL in the scout group was also considered, but who besides Meyer, Weiss and Fox has any stealth ability? I really can't see either Fox or Weiss giving up their sniper rifles, and we could swap the L85/M203 from Creswick to Meyer, but would either one go for that?

Also note that Boswell, Creswick and I think Kelly are all NPCs at present. I'm quite happy to have Ben's small team consist of all NPCs, but I'm sure most other players would prefer to deal with other players.

Of course the entire proposal is dependant to some extent on teaching the Captain how to control an armoured vehicle in combat. I'd imagine this is something that JJ is far more suited to do than Ben even though Ben has been doing it for a couple of years (he's airborne primarily, not mechanised infantry). Perhaps as a stopgap, Ben could command the M113 and Jennifer jump in only when Ben needs to dismount?

Now in reply to the fuel issue, I estimate that we started with approximately 8 hours fuel and have burnt through about 2 and 1/2 hours worth. Fuel is always going to be an issue as our capacity is limited to just that 8 hours. As discussed a couple of months ago, the plan had been to drive until the reserve tanks were empty, then stop to distill/trade/steal more while we still had a few hours worth in the tanks.

In our current situation, we need to give some serious thought towards using the diesel. It's not necessary yet I think, but we should consider at what point we need to convert one of the vehicles. As it takes eight manhours labour, it's a task best not left until the enemy are cresting the ridge and we've nothing else but fumes.
Fusilier
GM, 153 posts
Your Guide
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 14:33
  • msg #449

Re: Fuel

Jennifer Gideon:
Could I get clarification on wheather or not mechanics or metallurgy will suffice for the fix.


Metallurgy can be used in place of mechanics in this instance. It'll be more difficult but effective. Result of your efforts will be posted next GM turn which should be soon (just letting the planning work out the last details).
Fusilier
GM, 154 posts
Your Guide
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 14:39
  • msg #450

Re: Fuel

Radio situation...

The party has -
5 tactical radios (range about 2 km)
2 medium range radios (but these are not manpacks, only vehicle versions)
1 medium range manpack (secure) at a max of anywhere between 8-12km based on geographic and atmospheric conditions.

If you send a patrol, as its been said, keep these ranges in mind. The vehicular radios have good range but the manpack (JJ's) won't be able to transmit it to.
Fusilier
GM, 155 posts
Your Guide
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 14:54
  • msg #451

Re: Fuel

Skill points pool is posted in "The Cast" thread at the top. At any time you want to up your skills just let me know.
Jennifer Gideon
player, 53 posts
Captain: Royal Engineers
"Blue wire Red wire hmm!"
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 14:55
  • msg #452

Re: Fuel

"Of course the entire proposal is dependant to some extent on teaching the Captain how to control an armoured vehicle in combat."

Whilst having 'rank' Gideon would be the first to acknowledge a lack of combat experience. Neither the character nor the player would have particular objection to someone of lower rank but better experience 'managing' the vehicle.
Arthur Fox
player, 41 posts
Sergeant
British Army
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 14:58
  • msg #453

Re: Fuel

I suggested my alteration to your groups as I feel we can do better with the people we have available when we work with flexible teams. You mention it yourself we are not really overstaffed so we can put several teams together. It’s not like we have a well balanced platoon sized group of well trained military personnel at our disposal.

Systems and tactics that work real well in past and present military can be changed in favor of our current situation (and fun and games). How often do you find a group with the mix we have.  Why should we not use the tactical capabilities of the snipers in favor of the old structures. Why not make sure every group has firepower and a medic present.

Also when looking at the group don’t forget the individual characters. I can speak for Fox when I say his character is not just going to accept being grouped up. In fact he will probably not even work well in a team. Ever since the Falklands he has been sent on missions alone or in two or three men teams. His specialty observation, stealth and sniping.  Group operations is not something he is used to or trained to do. Setting an ambush  sniping and evading the enemy is what he is good at.

When it comes to our captain I think we should consider, when it comes to groups, to switch either of them. When Gideon is not vehicle commander material she could take his spot on the infantry team. Maybe Ben can train her on the Minimi if he’s willing to hand it to her for squad operations of course.

I'd like to hear from others what grouping, if any they prefer.
Kurt Weiss
player, 90 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 18:58
  • msg #454

Re: Fuel

Not sure if this is relavent considering the group as it is, but a standard US infantry team consists of 4 men with both GL and AR assets available to it.  A squad consisting of 2 teams and a Squad leader that would stick with the maneuver element.  Your machine gun teams, if they were separated from the bulk of the platoon, were in an overwatch role.

Scouts are a Battalion level asset with the only consideration for such at the company or platoon level being the return of the use of Squad Marksman, but they operate primarily in an overwatch role.

Personally, I like the idea of a mixed fire team with both AR and GL capabilities.  The only time I think the separate role teams would be better is perhaps in a set piece battle, either defense or planned attack.  For just scouting and maneuver, mixed capabilities are the way to go.  At least, that is how I feel.

Weiss is okay with either being part of a fire team or scout/sniper team as needed.  Perhaps both if we are willing to mix and match.

Also, sorry about my much reduced posting rate.  Vacation is playing hell with that while I am trying to keep the wife happy by spending maximum amount of time with her.
Varis Babicevs
player, 30 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 20:38
  • msg #455

Re: Fuel


Varis will work in/with whatever squad he's assigned to. My two cents, though, is that squads have mixed firepower for the sake of flexibility and relative autonomy.

Anyhow, I'm volunteering Varis to work as a "scout". He used to be a Soviet army cavalry trooper so he could easily play that role again. His job with the 8th was scout/translator so that's what he's good at. He's good with his GL though, so if ya'll want him to be primarily a grenadier (and thus not a part of the scouting team), that's fine too.

As for fuel, I say that whenever we stop with enough time to brew some juice, we get on it. No sense in waiting 'til we're almost out to start worrying about making more.
Tom Handley
player, 19 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Sun 6 Jul 2008
at 21:07
  • msg #456

Re: Fuel

Handley's arm is not really up to much heavy lifting or slit trench-digging, so about all he's good for is standing guard or handing tools to those who are doing the donkey work.
Ben Jagelis
player, 157 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 7 Jul 2008
at 05:03
  • msg #457

Re: Fuel

Just because certain people have been "grouped" together doesn't mean they will always be operating in those groups. I'd actually be more happy pairing people up - one experienced infantryman with one green, but that could cause problems of it's own.

I can't really see the M113 being using in combat all that much without prior warning. Captain Gideon in most cases would really be the babysitter, manning the gun and observing while Jordan (driver) did most of the actual work. This may change as they became more experienced/confident or our units personnel altered through casualties and additions.

As for somebody else commanding the M113, who would do it? Everyone is better utilised on the ground as infantry, or at least less likely to screw things up (looking at Boswell yet again!)

If/when we obtain a soft skin cargo vehicle, I'd like to see the Captain, Boswell and perhaps one of the medics riding in that and staying well out of the way.

"Scouts" as per my proposal are really just riflemen well trained in stealth and observation. Their role within the section is normally to act as "point", carry out the dawn and dusk clearing patrols, accompany commanders when scouting out possible ambush and harbour sites, and provide target indications - usually by watching which way they fall after being shot in the first second of a contact.  ;)

This is not to say that Weiss, Meyer and Fox would be restricted in any way to these tasks, rather that in a defensive location, or during an assault, they would work together as a team. Also, it's far easier for the commander to send the "scout group" out on a recce than picking and choosing individuals for the job.

You could almost say it's more an administrative grouping - these people always share the same pit when in defence, share the same shelter, ride in the same vehicle and so on.

As the M2 is likely to be leading in almost all situations, I think it's probably best to load the better infantrymen aboard it. In my proposal this would be the scout and rifle groups while the longer ranged machinegun group ride in the M113.
Fusilier
GM, 156 posts
Your Guide
Mon 7 Jul 2008
at 05:51
  • msg #458

GM Turn

Hey all,

Sorry for an absence of a GM turn if anyone was waiting for it. I didn't want to post one until your planning had been worked out so you didn't get any of your time cut short. Seems like we have a direction now, so I'll get one up in a couple hours.
Varis Babicevs
player, 32 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Tue 8 Jul 2008
at 00:17
  • msg #459

Itching for more T2K?


Our esteemed GM has given me permission to do a little head-hunting over here.

I run a T2K campaign here on RPOL and we're in need of someone to take over an abandoned PC- a warrant officer and former U.S. Army helicopter pilot who's also worked for the CIA. He's a new enough character that you can pretty much mold him to your own liking, personality wise, with just a few minor nods for continuity's sake. We also have space for a new PC if that's more to your liking.

Several of the folks here- including our esteemed GM- are already participating.

The game's been going for just over a year and the post rate is at least one turn every other day (we just broke 6000 posts!).

If you're interested, you can either PM me here or RTJ. Here's the link for it:

link to another game

Cheers!
Tom Handley
player, 20 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Tue 8 Jul 2008
at 00:23
  • msg #460

Re: Itching for more T2K?

I'd be interested.  RTJ coming up.
Kurt Weiss
player, 92 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Tue 8 Jul 2008
at 14:08
  • msg #461

Where we are and where we are headed

Okay, is it me or does it look like we are over 20k from the Baltic (Gdansk)?

If you want us to scout that far out, you will need to give us at least two days.  It could be done in one, but that is a forced march and that is not very stealthy.

If you want us just to head due east to the road between Gdansk and Tzcew, that could be a one day round trip.

And finally, I am being lazy and forgetful.  Where exactly are we going?  East to link up with the remnants of the 8th, right?
Fusilier
GM, 158 posts
Your Guide
Tue 8 Jul 2008
at 15:34
  • msg #462

Re: Where we are and where we are headed

I'll put you at 20km even to Gdansk. Let me know when you guys have a destination. I'm not sure if I forwarded the time enough. I didn't want to cut off you short but   wonder if you are all okay or not with playing out the prep.

Yes. Last decision on travel was to head east across the two rivers past Gdanks and try to find the division.
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:45, Tue 08 July 2008.
Tom Handley
player, 21 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Tue 8 Jul 2008
at 23:30
  • msg #463

Re: Where we are and where we are headed

Arthur Fox:
“ Also, I don’t know if you know if any of you guys has something to measure rads, like a Geiger counter. It might give us some clue about the contamination in the city.”


Handley has a Geiger counter visible among his gear.
Ben Jagelis
player, 158 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 9 Jul 2008
at 03:27
  • msg #464

Re: Where we are and where we are headed

What, scared to travel at the full listed movement in the book? You know, 20km per four hour period?  ;)

Personally I'd be horrified at the concept of even half that far in a day! But that's just lazy me speaking...   :D
Fusilier
GM, 159 posts
Your Guide
Wed 9 Jul 2008
at 03:53
  • msg #465

Re: Where we are and where we are headed

I don't want to limit your actions too much, but try not to keep the patrol away too long. Splitting up the players for a long time gets difficult to manage the time frames. An encounter can really mess things up. Two days is a long time - we have been playing for weeks and its only the 2nd day. Granted there will be a lot less planning and administration turns, but it'll still add up.

Not trying to ruin your plans or your fun, but just for you to consider.
Helmut Meyer
player, 97 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Wed 9 Jul 2008
at 07:56
  • msg #466

Re: Where we are and where we are headed

John Jameson McCarthy:
"OK, take Varis with you, he has a good chance of speaking the lingo," JJ replied to Weiss' request.


Did you mean Meyer's request instead?

If you didn't, could you address his suggestion please.
Fusilier
GM, 160 posts
Your Guide
Thu 10 Jul 2008
at 10:15
  • msg #467

Re: Where we are and where we are headed

We seemed to be a little stalled? I think we're a little stuck on making some final decisions. I don't want the game to get too bogged down, but I'll give a chance for some late replies. Otherwise I think I'll have to push the game ahead assuming the decisions the best I can.
Stone
player, 76 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Thu 10 Jul 2008
at 12:07
  • msg #468

Re: Where we are and where we are headed

Lets push on Fuslier - a fast game is a good game.

We could spend weeks of real time just getting through a simple conversation.  I think the general consensus was we were moving east?

Apart from that i think the only other issue was whether we were sending out a scout party.  While it makes good tactical, real world sense, it might not be the best idea game wise (since some PCs might be left idle).
Ben Jagelis
player, 159 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Thu 10 Jul 2008
at 12:25
  • msg #469

Re: Where we are and where we are headed

In reply to Helmut Meyer (msg #466):

Weiss did suggest an extra body or two go with the long range patrol a few posts previously.
Helmut Meyer
player, 98 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Thu 10 Jul 2008
at 12:37
  • msg #470

Re: Where we are and where we are headed

JJ is away for 2-3 days... I think. He mentioned it on Rae's game but don't thick he announced it here publicly. Maybe Ben can make some snappy decisions to get us on the go since a few are waiting for orders or permission from the chain of command.

Also - 1000 posts. I know post count doesn't make for a good game (which it is)... however the game is still in its infancy and the posting is really healthy.
Jennifer Gideon
player, 56 posts
Captain: Royal Engineers
"Blue wire Red wire hmm!"
Thu 10 Jul 2008
at 13:34
  • msg #471

Re: Where we are and where we are headed

Whilst generally I prefer keeping groups together especially in PBEM's I think we'd be as well just pushing on. I can't see any radical developments or anything mind blowing coming from further discussion.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 87 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Thu 10 Jul 2008
at 18:11
  • msg #472

Re: Where we are and where we are headed

Helmut Meyer:
John Jameson McCarthy:
"OK, take Varis with you, he has a good chance of speaking the lingo," JJ replied to Weiss' request.


Did you mean Meyer's request instead?

If you didn't, could you address his suggestion please.



Yes, I did, I'm sorry but I'm really getting in a mix with those two names.
Varis Babicevs
player, 34 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Thu 10 Jul 2008
at 19:27
  • msg #473

Re: Where we are and where we are headed


Congrats to everyone for contributing to the 1000 post milestone. Kudos especially to Fusilier for running an engaging campaign. Keep up the good work, everyone.
Fusilier
GM, 161 posts
Your Guide
Fri 11 Jul 2008
at 11:32
  • msg #474

Re: Where we are and where we are headed

I apologize for the delay in the post. Having some difficulty figuring out something. It'll be up in 1-2 hours.
This message was last edited by the GM at 11:32, Fri 11 July 2008.
Marc St.Gil
player, 90 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Fri 11 Jul 2008
at 11:33
  • msg #475

Re: Where we are and where we are headed

No problem. We trust you. :)
Fusilier
GM, 163 posts
Your Guide
Fri 11 Jul 2008
at 16:01
  • msg #476

Ground Layout

Red lines indicate the general route taken by both patrols.


Link to overhead view of Borcz for perimeter patrol. Their location is the treeline to the south east. The train is over 2 kilometers beyond the community. See the above map for the railroad.
http://maps.google.com/maps/mm...55,0.026608&z=15

Link to overhead view of route patrol. Their hide is in the trees - due north of the intersection of Route 221 and the road that leads west to Czapiesk.
http://maps.google.com/maps?ie...58,0.026608&z=15
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:14, Fri 11 July 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 162 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sun 13 Jul 2008
at 11:18
  • msg #477

Re: Ground Layout

Helmut Meyer:
"Train bearing 90 degrees of hide, distance about 3 kilometers. Over."

FYI, 90 degrees is due east and back towards the habour/hide. Probably should read 270 degrees or just plain due west.
This message was last edited by the player at 11:19, Sun 13 July 2008.
Helmut Meyer
player, 101 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sun 13 Jul 2008
at 11:21
  • msg #478

Re: Ground Layout

Ben Jagelis:
Helmut Meyer:
"Train bearing 90 degrees of hide, distance about 3 kilometers. Over."

FYI, 90 degrees is due east and back towards the habour/hide. Probably should read 270 degrees or just plain due west.


LOL, I knew that.
Ben Jagelis
player, 164 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 14 Jul 2008
at 00:39
  • msg #479

An advertisement

I find myself looking for several new players in my two remaining games, Twilight:2000 and Aliens (mainly due to my poor post rate in the past few months).
link to another game
Mary Finnegan, Elena Chatwin, John Bloomfield, Katka Valechzev & Luke LeFramboise are all up for grabs but new characters can be slotted in at present with little difficulty.

The game itself is set in an alternate reality in which WWIII commenced in 1996. Nukes were first used on Thanksgiving 1997 and by the end of 1998 almost all civilisation, or at least the civilian goverments thereof, had virtually ceased to exist. The war however ground on, mainly because there was nobody left to negotiate peace.

Currently the characters find themselves in one of the largest remaining cities in Europe - Krakow in southern Poland which has a population of approximately 80,000 (more than a million prewar). It is a "free city", not unlike Casablanca in the 40's, rife with intrigue with every nations intelligence services represented in some way or another. It's independence is protected by the remnants of the Polish 8th motorised rifle division and several thousand local militia (the ORMO).

Opportunity is everywhere, especially when the highly sought after blueprints the group has in their possession (and have no idea of their value) are taken into acount. Can the group survive against a hostile world in the year 2000?


The second game is set roughly two years after the events in the movie "Aliens".
link to another game
Currently, Sgt Reon King, Privates Connor McCallum & John Miller Jr are available as the strike team moves into an alien hive to rescue a trapped miner on the other side of the subteranean complex. Initial contact with the aliens almost resulted in the impregnation and subsequent inevitable death of the three charactes above, only their armoured powersuits protecting them (barely) from a grizzly fate.
Fusilier
GM, 165 posts
Your Guide
Mon 14 Jul 2008
at 13:19
  • msg #480

Re: An advertisement

Updated the maintenance requirements for the Bradley. Its at the recommended amount for the week. So really, you can skip the next 5 days from maintenance for the vehicle.

The M113 just needs 2 more hours.

Keep in mind, it is going to begin to slowly get more difficult to do routine maintenance without spare parts.

Fellas in camp got an hour sleep/rest.

--

Its been a little quiet for the PCs who remained in camp for the last couple of turns. I'll try different ways to try to keep everyone involved in the game.

I'm not too sure which way to push the game at this point... too much action, or less. I put out some bait, but you guys like to play it safe (and realistic), thats ok. But maybe players still want more danger and enemy action. If I am starting to lose anyone, let me know in a PM what you'd like to see more of.
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:20, Mon 14 July 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 166 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 14 Jul 2008
at 13:43
  • msg #481

Re: An advertisement

Note that you can carry out more than the reccommended hours of maintenance on a vehicle. This extra time helps to reduce the chance of breakdowns and so is a very good idea.

If by bait you mean the train several kilometres back the way we came, it was never going to work.   ;)
We're in the midst of a concentration of enemy and on the run. Why would we want to effectively retrace our path and potentially run into any pursuers?  :O

I'm actually far more interested in the relatively minor parachute....
Fusilier
GM, 166 posts
Your Guide
Mon 14 Jul 2008
at 15:00
  • msg #482

Re: An advertisement

Ben Jagelis:
Ben paused the scouts for a few moments to check out the parachute. Was it Nato? Had it been in the tree long? Was the material salvageable for use as a tarp?


NATO pilot type (not airborne type - if there is a difference). Probably been in the tree for a while... a little moldy in places, faded, and ripped from the landing and over time... still largely intact though. Could be used as a tarp, cammo, shelter, or by civilians for any wide range of domestic uses.

The harness itself has strong cords and fabrics a machinist or similarly skill individual could make use of.
Tom Handley
player, 23 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Mon 14 Jul 2008
at 19:54
  • msg #483

Midnight run?

Ben Jagelis:
"I think we should consider requistioning by stealth some supplies from the village to the west. A small group, two, maybe three people on foot a few hours before we move on from here."


If Kelly and Creswick agree his arm is not too bad off, Handley is willing to go along.  This is right up his alley.

Fusilier:
Its been a little quiet for the PCs who remained in camp for the last couple of turns. I'll try different ways to try to keep everyone involved in the game.


I don't mind having Handley staying in camp for a while; I knew he might have to.  It's my own fault for starting him out wounded.
Stone
player, 80 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Tue 15 Jul 2008
at 11:31
  • msg #484

Re: Midnight run?

Question for the players.

In simple terms, what is our group goal?
Are we trying to make our way to friendly lines (or some other objective)?
Or are we going to make as much trouble, hit and run style, as we can?


I thought we were trying to move quickly, but now it seems like we're taking our time and/or dodging hitting the enemy.  I dont mind doing either but i think it would take too long in game to work out what our group goal was.
Helmut Meyer
player, 105 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Tue 15 Jul 2008
at 14:59
  • msg #485

Re: Midnight run?

Stone:
Question for the players.

In simple terms, what is our group goal?
Are we trying to make our way to friendly lines (or some other objective)?
Or are we going to make as much trouble, hit and run style, as we can?


I thought we were trying to move quickly, but now it seems like we're taking our time and/or dodging hitting the enemy.  I dont mind doing either but i think it would take too long in game to work out what our group goal was.


Good question Stone.

I think our goal is still to get across those two rivers and find our division which was last heading deeper into enemy territory (East towards Kaliningrad).

I don't think we were planning on doing much damage at this point.

We seem to be trying to go in low under the radar, trying to avoid trouble. However, a major part of the game is action. So I think it will only do us so much good. If we are able to perfectly hide out and avoid all human contact the game would get pretty boring I think. Either we look for trouble... or the GM is going to have trouble find us.

I like how the game is "sand box" style. We are free to choose any objective we want and can pretty much chart the course of the game. Although, just as your post indicates, we need to keep our objectives clear and focussed. I'm not saying they aren't here, but when a game day is played out of many IRL, I don't think it hurts.

I would say we should get across those rivers as quickly as possible. Once done, we can get much more aggressive. Material raids for fuel and food is an idea. But behind the rivers, we are kind of penned in.

Maybe I am way off here, but thats how I see it.
Jinny
Fusilier
GM, 167 posts
Your Guide
Tue 15 Jul 2008
at 15:27
  • msg #486

Re: Midnight run?

Helmut Meyer:
I like how the game is "sand box" style. We are free to choose any objective we want and can pretty much chart the course of the game.


I'd like to keep it that way as much as possible. I'd manipulate into the game my own short term objectives only if the group was directionless. In our case however I think I don't need to. I'll bait you of course, but not rail road you. I think what you said about your plan is true.

And you are correct about looking or finding trouble. I'm just getting the feel for how much is welcomed by our players... but your are correct.

I'm going to speed up the clock next turn to 2200. It'll give time to try to snatch a few items and not lose too much travel time. I assume you'd want to spend time resting/sleeping for the night move?
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:29, Tue 15 July 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 167 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 16 Jul 2008
at 03:20
  • msg #487

Re: Midnight run?

Unless events in the game dictate otherwise, I'd like to think that the leadership will allow, nay, ensure each character gains adequate rest each day.
This will probably mean some people spend more time on guard than others due to vehicle crew duties (driving, commanding, gunner, maintenance, etc) as the crew won't have the oportunity to rest during travel periods.

Overall, I like to think that our aim is to rejoin the 8th if possible. We should also try to avoid contact with the enemy until we are east of the rivers and out of their primary area of operations.

Once we're in the "rear areas" it's far less likely we'll encounter overwhelming opposition and be able to take more agressive action.
Helmut Meyer
player, 107 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Wed 16 Jul 2008
at 15:11
  • msg #489

Re: Overview

Aw no. Just look at the terrain past the patrol. We're going from wooded areas to nothing but open country side. Maybe we should switch from looking for small forested areas to hide in the ruins of burnt out villages. Any forested areas east of there are probably visited often by foragers, hunters and others since there is so little wooded area to go around.
Tom Handley
player, 28 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Wed 16 Jul 2008
at 15:14
  • msg #490

Blonde moment

Handley has dark hair and is being funny.  I am blonde and seriously forgot about NVGs.
Tom Handley
player, 29 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Thu 17 Jul 2008
at 22:11
  • msg #491

Re: Blonde moment

Isn't anybody going to lend poor Handley some night vision?
Marc St.Gil
player, 94 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Thu 17 Jul 2008
at 22:28
  • msg #492

Re: Blonde moment

I would loan you mine but I was going to wear them. Of corse if you would prefer the guy with the SAW not be able to see what he is shooting at I will hand them over. :)
Tom Handley
player, 30 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Thu 17 Jul 2008
at 22:40
  • msg #493

Re: Blonde moment

Sh'yeah, right.  I really want blind autofire coming my way.

Too bad McCoy took head shots at the two Russian scouts and blew away their NVG's.  Oops, wrong game.  :-)
Ben Jagelis
player, 169 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 18 Jul 2008
at 00:28
  • msg #494

Re: Blonde moment

You can have Ben's.
It's one of those "must have" items when you're sneaking about pilfering other peoples foods supplies I tend to think.
Tom Handley
player, 31 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Fri 18 Jul 2008
at 01:03
  • msg #495

"Trade" mission

Okay, who's carrying which of our trade goods?
Ben Jagelis
player, 170 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 18 Jul 2008
at 04:47
  • msg #496

Re: "Trade" mission

Heaviest items go to the lowest ranks don't they?   ;)
Fusilier
GM, 171 posts
Your Guide
Fri 18 Jul 2008
at 12:46
  • msg #497

Re: "Trade" mission

Our post rate seems to have dropped a bit the last 3 days. What do I need to do? Speed up the clock? Lemme know.
Tom Handley
player, 32 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Fri 18 Jul 2008
at 15:08
  • msg #498

Re: "Trade" mission

Nah, I think we're all right.  All the games I am monitoring have been pretty slow the last few days.
Kurt Weiss
player, 98 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Fri 18 Jul 2008
at 15:13
  • msg #499

Re: "Trade" mission

Yeah, nothing to worry about.  Sorry about my own slow posting, still trying to maximize time with my wife while on vacation.
Helmut Meyer
player, 109 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Fri 18 Jul 2008
at 15:17
  • msg #500

Re: "Trade" mission

Agreed with Kurt and Tom. Nothing to worry about. I think we're all still in the game. A little slow but nothing permanent. Haven't seen Jennifer around though, here or in Rae's game either. Other than that I think we'll be ok in a day or two.
Helmut Meyer
player, 110 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sat 19 Jul 2008
at 14:12
  • msg #501

Re: "Trade" mission

Tom Handley:
Handley thinks <aqua><i>So much for checking out the greenhouses for veggies.  If the laughter had been coming from further on, we might have been able to sneak into a closer one.


Tom, there are greenhouses back at the first farmhouses too. See post #557...

"The farmhouse is silent and dark inside. Within the enclosed property there is a shed, a greenhouse, and two coops... one housing chickens and the other rabbits. A quick inspection finds the shed and greenhouse locked. The coops, are simply shut with a sliding bolt."
Tom Handley
player, 36 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Sat 19 Jul 2008
at 14:18
  • msg #502

Re: "Trade" mission

Yeah, I forgot about that.  I'll change my post accordingly.  I did want to check out the warehouses anyway.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:22, Sat 19 July 2008.
Fusilier
GM, 175 posts
Your Guide
Sun 20 Jul 2008
at 08:36
  • msg #503

Re: "Trade" mission

Speeding up the thieves plot as quickly as I can. I know the rest of you are sitting tight. I appreciate your patience.
Marc St.Gil
player, 97 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Sun 20 Jul 2008
at 09:23
  • msg #504

Re: "Trade" mission

I just realized one of the things we didn't grab before heading over to loot was a radio. Opps.
Tom Handley
player, 38 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Sun 20 Jul 2008
at 13:21
  • msg #505

Re: "Trade" mission

Come on, Persuasion roll.  Luck be a lady, and all that.
Fusilier
GM, 177 posts
Your Guide
Sun 20 Jul 2008
at 16:36
  • msg #506

Maps

I moved the maps into the maps/intel folder. I'll post them there instead of OOC threads from now on. The main body will be soon ready to move. I just need to know how you intend to make the first leg of the nights move.
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:51, Sun 20 July 2008.
Fusilier
GM, 179 posts
Your Guide
Mon 21 Jul 2008
at 10:34
  • msg #507

Re: Maps

Varis Babicevs:
OOC: Sorry I dropped the ball on this guys. If I'd posted faster, Varis could have done all the talking and made things look more like local troops misbehaving.


I wouldn't say it was dropping the ball. I started to rush things up. I'm still learning how to keep everyone active in the game, and don't want people to get too bored waiting. At the same time, I don't want to limit people doing something special on their own. I'm trying to find the right balance I guess.

On a related note, thanks for you who made the best of it. Its not the most interesting thing to play out (waiting)... but some managed pretty well. I'm not sure about Firebringer's status (Jen Gideon) though - he seems to be MIA here and in Rae's game too. I hope he gets back into the game.
This message was last edited by the GM at 10:37, Mon 21 July 2008.
Varis Babicevs
player, 41 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Mon 21 Jul 2008
at 18:34
  • msg #508

Re: Maps


No worries- it all worked out OK in the end.

Hey chief, I want to update the -60 rounds (for trade) but Varis' char-sheet but I'm not allowed to edit Varis' char-sheet. What should I do?
Ben Jagelis
player, 171 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 21 Jul 2008
at 23:37
  • msg #509

Re: Maps

Quick message - will be away and probably won't have net access until Friday. Will try although the area I'm headed to has spotty coverage at best.
Fusilier
GM, 180 posts
Your Guide
Mon 21 Jul 2008
at 23:55
  • msg #510

Re: Maps

Thanks for letting us know Leg.
Tom P. Kelly
NPC, 32 posts
Spec4
Medic (US)
Tue 22 Jul 2008
at 06:39
  • msg #511

Re: Maps

I invested Kelly's experience point into autogun. For future reference, he is now quite suitable for taking over any behind-the-action jobs requiring manning machineguns (like manning the M60 in the M113 in a support role).
Fusilier
GM, 182 posts
Your Guide
Wed 23 Jul 2008
at 15:56
  • msg #512

Re: Maps

Updated the tactical map.

If it gets into real close combat I'll post a better scaled map.

Also, I need to know where everyone is placed.
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:07, Wed 23 July 2008.
Helmut Meyer
player, 114 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Wed 23 Jul 2008
at 17:38
  • msg #513

Re: Maps

Fusilier:
Also, I need to know where everyone is placed.


I think this is JJ's plan...

...and if we just alternate Handley with Gideon, we have all active PCs together and all NPCs together (separately). Might make this easier for you to manage the battle with, and not make Handley feel like an outsider (sorry about that Tom lol).

M2 Gunner - St. Gil (PC)
M2 Driver - Stone (PC)

M113 Gunner - Ben (away)
M113 Driver - Jordan (NPC)

Assault - JJ, Meyer, Varis, Handley (PCs)

Support - Fox, Weiss (PCs)

Reserve - Boswell, Kelly, Creswick, Gideon (NPCs/MIA)
This message was last edited by the player at 17:39, Wed 23 July 2008.
Fusilier
GM, 183 posts
Your Guide
Wed 23 Jul 2008
at 18:03
  • msg #514

Re: Maps

Helmut Meyer:
...and if we just alternate Handley with Gideon, we have all active PCs together and all NPCs together (separately). Might make this easier for you to manage the battle with, and not make Handley feel like an outsider (sorry about that Tom lol).


I don't mind extra work with detailing out turns for extra teams... however your suggestion would probably be good so I can concentrate all of the activities on the PCs and not leave anyone falling asleep.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 100 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Wed 23 Jul 2008
at 18:15
  • msg #515

Radios

As Meyer points out, there may be a confusion with radios. Looking back at the posts, I think the Sniper team took a MANPACK radio that Jagelis said would be in the Bradley, not the one JJ has. If this isn't the case, let me know and I'll post accordingly.
Fusilier
GM, 184 posts
Your Guide
Wed 23 Jul 2008
at 18:20
  • msg #516

Re: Radios

John Jameson McCarthy:
As Meyer points out, there may be a confusion with radios. Looking back at the posts, I think the Sniper team took a MANPACK radio that Jagelis said would be in the Bradley, not the one JJ has. If this isn't the case, let me know and I'll post accordingly.


These are the available radios...

M2A2 Bradley (AN/VRC-12 13km)
M113 APC (AN/VRC-12 13km)

McCarthy (6/12km secure-manpack)
McCarthy (Short ranged tactical)
Jagelis (Short ranged tactical)
Meyer (Short ranged tactical)
Weiss (Short ranged tactical)
Fox (Short ranged tactical)

The two in the vehicles are not man portable types. They are vehicular only. McCarthy's manpack is the only one the scouts could take to have the range. I think Ben suggested their might be, but it wasn't the case.

http://www.columbiaelectronics...vrc_12_radio_set.htm
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:24, Wed 23 July 2008.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 101 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Wed 23 Jul 2008
at 18:22
  • msg #517

Re: Radios

OK fine.
Fusilier
GM, 188 posts
Your Guide
Fri 25 Jul 2008
at 10:14
  • msg #518

Re: Radios

Helmut Meyer:
OOC - Can we see the guy going towards the latrine?


No. Not at the current position.
Unknown
player, 1 post
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Fri 25 Jul 2008
at 10:49
  • msg #519

Re: Radios

I'm eagerly awaiting the moment I can join the cause.  Just think!  One of those hapless NPCs could be me!
Fusilier
GM, 189 posts
Your Guide
Fri 25 Jul 2008
at 11:30
  • msg #520

Re: Radios

Please welcome mean_liar... I believe he mentioned this was his first time playing Twilight 2000. Just waiting for some info I need from a couple people before I can advance things. I'm eager to post the next turn so it'll be as soon as I get the info.
This message was last edited by the GM at 11:31, Fri 25 July 2008.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 108 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Fri 25 Jul 2008
at 11:31
  • msg #521

Re: Radios

Hi, mean_liar, hope you have a good time playing.
Helmut Meyer
player, 119 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Fri 25 Jul 2008
at 11:33
  • msg #522

Re: Radios

Hi, welcome. We're a good little gaming group. Lots of post action and good all around people to game with.
Unknown
player, 2 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Fri 25 Jul 2008
at 13:17
  • msg #523

Re: Radios

I've been lurking for a while.  T2k was one of those systems I always had lying around but never got around to playing... it's currently inspired me to run a post-apocalypse fantasy game with DnD4e.  :p

...

Also, when my character shows up, his MOS is mostly based around dismount actions.  He's more or less a super-infantryman, excellent with MGs, assault rifles, grenade launchers, and strangling... a decent stealth, a great observe and very good survival and tracking.

The last paragraph of the character's description is the best part, and the reason I love him.  :)
This message was last edited by the player at 13:18, Fri 25 July 2008.
Tom Handley
player, 47 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Fri 25 Jul 2008
at 14:25
  • msg #524

Re: Radios

*Reads character description*  Oh, crap -- another kraut for McCarthy to get confused with each other.  LOL


Welcome, mean_liar.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:27, Fri 25 July 2008.
Tom Handley
player, 48 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Fri 25 Jul 2008
at 18:12
  • msg #525

Re: Radios

Johm Jameson McCarthy:
He readied himself and crawled after Varis, making sure he remained about ten meters behind the local.


Varis, being Latvian, is about as local as Meyer.
Fusilier
GM, 191 posts
Your Guide
Sat 26 Jul 2008
at 05:53
  • msg #526

Resolution

Both extremely lucky and unlucky this turn.

I think spotting a wire through NVGs would have required nothing but an outstanding success and Meyer pulled it off (one reason I made it a flare and not a mine was I didn't think it would be fair to kill off the lead man so easily).

Weiss is good at stealth and would have had no difficulty eliminating the man quickly as he planned... except it was an honest critical failure.

Marc and Stone, appreciate your patience in reserve. Meyer had a good idea about rotating jobs to give everyone a chance to be in on the action. JJ took the suggestion and I hope you guys follow with it. May not be realistic but its a game.
Stone
player, 86 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Sat 26 Jul 2008
at 10:02
  • msg #527

Re: Resolution

Yep, i appreciated the offer to get into the action.  But i am happy having Stone in a reserve type role as Brad driver.
Marc St.Gil
player, 100 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Sat 26 Jul 2008
at 11:22
  • msg #528

Re: Resolution

No big deal, everyone gets face time. last time I got lots to do, hopefully this time trhe others get the fun. :)
Kurt Weiss
player, 105 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sat 26 Jul 2008
at 23:06
  • msg #529

Travelling

Will be out of the loop starting Sunday afternoon until probably Friday-ish.  Moving to Germany and getting set up there.

I like the way Fox thinks so whatever he is up for, I would probably agree or be thinking the same thing.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 112 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sun 27 Jul 2008
at 08:50
  • msg #530

Supplementary information?

Is the wire and the telegraph pole on our way to the bunker or the other side?
Ben Jagelis
player, 172 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sun 27 Jul 2008
at 11:49
  • msg #531

Re: Supplementary information?

John Jameson McCarthy:
He let his rifle rest securely on it's three point harness and prepared two frags and a smoke grenade. He clipped a frag and a smoke onto his combat vest, the pins held by caribiners so he'd only have to pull them out of the pocket to arm them, it was a neat trick the Soviets used and many Americans had modified their kit to replicate the move.

Only Americans and pooly trained Pact troops could be stupid enough to do that!   ;)

A serious danger is that the pin can be pulled from the grenade by a stick or something else snagging on it. This is much less likely with new grenades as the pin is (with the M26 anyway) a split pin, the ends bent to prevent it coming out easily - actually takes a fair amount of strength to remove it when in mint condition. I think there is also a small bit of red wax on the ends of the pin too which is stripped off when the pin is pulled (it's been about 15 years since I laid eyes on one).

Sometimes the pin may have been straightened, either by having been previously removed and then replaced, or the individual purposely straightening it to allow it to slide free using just the thumb of the throwing hand (a practise that is certain to get the offender is a whole lot of shit if caught due to the extreme danger). It's a requirement that replaced pins are bent back as soon as possible to prevent possible accident.

Back in the '80's, a soldier had been carrying a grenade on the chest strap of his webbing when a stick pulled the pin while on a grenade assault range. The pin stayed with the stick while the grenade remained in place on the soldiers chest while they ran onwards. A few seconds later, the individual in question was unconscious in the mud.

When they came too, they were almost unwounded - minor shrapnel and a big nasty bruise on their chest. The thick webbing had directed most of the blast out and away! Two days later they were back on duty (although facing a charge for tampering with the pin, and the range safety officer also receiving a boot).

Because of this incident, all hand grenades in the Australian army must be carried in pouches.

I have found while writing this post that the US Army issues a "safety clip" that holds the arm in place even if the pin has been removed. Whether or not any are available I'm sure is a GM call.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 114 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sun 27 Jul 2008
at 12:18
  • msg #532

Re: Supplementary information?

The clips holding the pins are inside the carrying pouches and therefore less likely to be snagged, I think the idea is that you grab the grenade from inside the pouch and then as you pull it out to throw, the pin remains inside the pouch.

I would agree that wandering around with grenades hanging from caribiners like the corks on a swagman's hat would be asking for trouble. The grenades JJ is talking about are inside their pouches with the pin snagged by a caribiner. The pouch is open but it is highly unlikely that the grenade will get snagged in such a way that it would be pulled out of the pouch and have the pin pulled all without a chance to stop it. Even then, JJ better not have any critical failures.
Ben Jagelis
player, 174 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sun 27 Jul 2008
at 12:20
  • msg #533

Re: Supplementary information?

Fair enough. Sounds reasonable, but like you say, he better hope there's no catastrophic failures!
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 115 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sun 27 Jul 2008
at 12:21
  • msg #534

Re: Supplementary information?

Here'shoping, still, it would be a funny way to go...
Tom Handley
player, 50 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Sun 27 Jul 2008
at 15:25
  • msg #535

Re: Supplementary information?

I don't suppose hanging a grenade from webbing by the spoon is a good idea.  I was thinking of having Handley do that, but decided not to.  What is a relatively safe way to stow a grenade on webbing without putting it back in a pouch?  I mean in order to be able to have quick and quiet access to it.
Ben Jagelis
player, 175 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 28 Jul 2008
at 04:18
  • msg #536

Re: Supplementary information?

There isn't really one unless you count shoving them into a pocket....   ;)

I know of a Korea vet who almost never fired his rifle in combat - prefered to throw hand grenades and was almost never seen without a sandbag full of them. You could always tell roughly where he was on the field, just had to listen for the explosion every few seconds....
Fusilier
GM, 193 posts
Your Guide
Mon 28 Jul 2008
at 05:58
  • msg #537

Re: Supplementary information?

Having a little trouble getting online. I moved houses and was told the internet was setup. There's a problem and I can only access it from work. Shouldn't be too noticeable.

John Jameson McCarthy:
Is the wire and the telegraph pole on our way to the bunker or the other side?


The bunker is pretty much next to the pole. Neither on the way or past. It goes almost straight up from the roof connection.
Fusilier
GM, 197 posts
Your Guide
Wed 30 Jul 2008
at 08:34
  • msg #538

Re: Supplementary information?

Helmut Meyer:
OOC - Am I correct to assume it is big enough to have maybe two separate rooms?


Correct. It is big enough for two small rooms.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 118 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Wed 30 Jul 2008
at 11:42
  • msg #539

Re: Supplementary information?

Out of interest, even though JJ doesn't speak Polish, and might not have picked up any key phrases, I'd assume that frontline trrops would pick up phrases to do with handling surrender etc even if they didn't speak the language as such.

1) Does anyone in the assault group speak Polish?
2) Would we know the phrase, "you're surrounded, surrender and come out with your hands up?" ?

I know I can look it up on google, but I didn't see a laptop with satellite uplink and a subscription to aol on our list of kit.
Tom Handley
player, 53 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Wed 30 Jul 2008
at 14:10
  • msg #540

Re: Supplementary information?

Handley speaks a bit of Polish (asset= 9).
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 119 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Wed 30 Jul 2008
at 15:21
  • msg #541

Re: Supplementary information?

Good, so the plan may be a runner, it's humanitarian and will avoid us fraggin more of the stuff we want to steal.
Tom Handley
player, 55 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Wed 30 Jul 2008
at 19:59
  • msg #542

Re: Supplementary information?

I think Meyer is the logical one to call for surrender if he speaks Polish, but if he doesn't, or JJ thinks it better, Handley will do it.
Ben Jagelis
player, 178 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Thu 31 Jul 2008
at 01:27
  • msg #543

Re: Supplementary information?

John Jameson McCarthy:
"...if you're confident, pop some 40 mike mike in."

Extremely unlikely a 40mm grenade would have time to arm in such a short distance. Much better to stick with hand grenades.
Helmut Meyer
player, 124 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Thu 31 Jul 2008
at 01:28
  • msg #544

Re: Supplementary information?

Meyer doesn't speak Polish. Up to you Tom.
Tom Handley
player, 56 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Thu 31 Jul 2008
at 01:31
  • msg #545

Re: Supplementary information?

Okay.  Now JJ just has to tell Handley or Varis to call for surrender.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:58, Thu 31 July 2008.
Varis Babicevs
player, 47 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Thu 31 Jul 2008
at 05:12
  • msg #546

Re: Supplementary information?

Tom Handley:
I think Meyer is the logical one to call for surrender if he speaks Polish, but if he doesn't, or JJ thinks it better, Handley will do it.


Varis is hurt. And to think he got Handley a new shirt...

; )
Fusilier
GM, 198 posts
Your Guide
Thu 31 Jul 2008
at 08:49
  • msg #547

Re: Supplementary information?

Meyer, you can't see the dice roll for your actions. This doesn't mean your shots were effective or not - just unknown at the moment.
Tom Handley
player, 57 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Thu 31 Jul 2008
at 13:00
  • msg #548

Re: Supplementary information?

Varis Babicevs:
Varis is hurt. And to think he got Handley a new shirt...

; )


There, I've edited my comment above.  Better?
Tom Handley
player, 58 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Thu 31 Jul 2008
at 13:05
  • msg #549

Re: Supplementary information?

Are there loopholes in the western face of the bunker?
Kurt Weiss
player, 106 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Thu 31 Jul 2008
at 14:31
  • msg #550

Re: Supplementary information?

Up and running for at least a week.  My unit is currently conducting training, however, and I will likely have to join them when I get done in-processing late next week.
Fusilier
GM, 200 posts
Your Guide
Fri 1 Aug 2008
at 00:57
  • msg #551

Re: Supplementary information?

Tom Handley:
Are there loopholes in the western face of the bunker?


A much larger opening. For the main armament to engage its primary arc (the open field to the west). Handley is at the SW corner right?

Kurt Weiss:
Up and running for at least a week.  My unit is currently conducting training, however, and I will likely have to join them when I get done in-processing late next week.


Welcome back. No worries, just let us know before you head out alright?
Tom Handley
player, 59 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Fri 1 Aug 2008
at 01:55
  • msg #552

Re: Supplementary information?

SW corner is correct.
Varis Babicevs
player, 49 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Fri 1 Aug 2008
at 04:05
  • msg #553

Re: Supplementary information?

Tom Handley:
There, I've edited my comment above.  Better?


-sniffle- A little... -sniffle-
Ben Jagelis
player, 180 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 1 Aug 2008
at 12:34
  • msg #554

Re: Supplementary information?

Fusilier:
A much larger opening. For the main armament to engage its primary arc (the open field to the west).

That'd be the direction the M2 is approaching from right?   ;)
Unknown
player, 3 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Fri 1 Aug 2008
at 13:00
  • msg #555

Re: Supplementary information?

You guys use grenades like its not a post-apocalypse game.  ;)
Ben Jagelis
player, 182 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 1 Aug 2008
at 13:08
  • msg #556

Re: Supplementary information?

Grenades are relatively simple to make so why not? All you really need is an empty tin can, some shrapnel (nails, gravel, whatever), a little explosive and a slightly mad grenadier to throw it.   :D
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 121 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Fri 1 Aug 2008
at 13:10
  • msg #557

Re: Supplementary information?

The alternative is getting shot at, I know which I'd rather do!
Ben Jagelis
player, 183 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 1 Aug 2008
at 13:55
  • msg #558

Re: Supplementary information?

My approach to such situations is usually "if you've got it, use it!"
Once the hand grenades are all gone, we've still got a supply of explosives, couple of cases of claymores (which can be thrown up to the 30 metre length of their cable), 40mm HEDP, RPGs, M72s, and harsh language.   :P
Marc St.Gil
player, 105 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Fri 1 Aug 2008
at 20:19
  • msg #559

Re: Supplementary information?

Two important rules of grenades.
1: High explosives are always a valid argument.
2: Once you pull the pin from Mr. Grenade, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend.

Use em or loose em.
Varis Babicevs
player, 51 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Fri 1 Aug 2008
at 23:26
  • msg #560

Re: Supplementary information?

Unknown:
You guys use grenades like its not a post-apocalypse game.  ;)


Perhaps I should have had my PC use his sharpened stick instead. Oh well, you live, you learn.
; )

I just hope the bad guys inside the bunker have a few frags so we can stock up again.
Ben Jagelis
player, 184 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 2 Aug 2008
at 13:42
  • msg #561

Re: Supplementary information?

http://www.military-quotes.com/murphy.htm
* The bursting radius of a hand grenade is always one foot greater than your jumping range.
* C-4 can make a dull day fun
Tom Handley
player, 62 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Sat 2 Aug 2008
at 13:52
  • msg #562

Upstaging?

Whoops...  JJ's post wasn't there when I began composing mine.  Sorry, Varis.  And of course I didn't see it until later, after I'd gone back to bed.
Ben Jagelis
player, 185 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 2 Aug 2008
at 13:56
  • msg #563

Re: Upstaging?

Works ok the way it is I think. Combat is full of confusion, and I think everyone at the bunker is fairly spread out too.
Fusilier
GM, 202 posts
Your Guide
Sat 2 Aug 2008
at 20:55
  • msg #564

New Players

Please welcome gwalchfaen, who will be taking over Tom Kelly.

Also please welcome Cap who will be playing Matt Doyle. Doyle and Oskar will be joining in-game as soon as the game advances a little further. They've been very patient.

As we're getting a little large. I took down the "seeking players" notification. Anyone else who RTJ, I think I'll have to limit to taking over one of the NPCs. We are at 16 people now and thats getting a lot to manage.

-----

Once this turn is complete, we'll close down the 'combat turns' style and you can post as normal. The bunker has been pretty much secured.
Helmut Meyer
player, 128 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sun 3 Aug 2008
at 05:43
  • msg #565

Re: New Players

Welcome to the game guys.
Marc St.Gil
player, 106 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Sun 3 Aug 2008
at 06:47
  • msg #566

Re: New Players

Welcome! Glad to see new faces. :)
Kurt Weiss
player, 108 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sun 3 Aug 2008
at 08:41
  • msg #567

Re: New Players

Welcome folks...

Ben, we just might have a full platoon for you yet.

JJ, don't get too excited.  We are still a few thousand posts from building up to a company for you.

:)
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 123 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sun 3 Aug 2008
at 09:40
  • msg #568

Re: New Players

Seeing as JJ's last battalion was two M2s an Hummer and a couple of trucks with just over 50 troopers, he's thinking about his own Division the way we're going.

General JJ, yeah, that'd be one up on Pops.
Fusilier
GM, 205 posts
Your Guide
Sun 3 Aug 2008
at 18:16
  • msg #569

Re: New Players

I posted a detailed listing of everything the searchers noticed while in the bunker. The more you take the longer you will need to load it up. Some things I  posted not because I thought you would take it (kettle), but rather just to give you a overall trivial idea of everything.

EDIT - This is the initial find. A more thorough search may come up with more things, but again, its a time thing. You'll have to let me know.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:22, Sun 03 Aug 2008.
Tom Handley
player, 64 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Sun 3 Aug 2008
at 18:55
  • msg #570

Re: New Players

Since Handley is not inside, he does not know what is there.  I would like him to get at least one set of socks and skivvies, and maybe the forage cap.  Without getting a good look at the RR, he does not yet have an opinion on the viability or possibility of taking it.  If he (or whover else may have Gunsmith skill) cannot replace the sight, I say we spike the gun and leave it.
Matt Doyle
player, 1 post
2nd Lieutenant
Special Forces (US)
Sun 3 Aug 2008
at 22:31
  • msg #571

Re: New Players

Howdy team. Looking forward to joining in but don't hurry on my account.
Tom P. Kelly
player, 37 posts
Spec4
Medic (US)
Mon 4 Aug 2008
at 01:13
  • msg #572

Re: New Players

Hey all, glad to be aboard.
Tom Handley
player, 66 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Mon 4 Aug 2008
at 01:33
  • msg #573

Re: New Players

Welcome to both of you.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 4 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Mon 4 Aug 2008
at 13:55
  • msg #574

Re: New Players

I've been *named*!  Now I'm a real boy!

In other news, that's a pretty grim scene the GM painted in the bunker.  I've been playing too many fantasy games of late where the hordes of evil sort of just dissolve off-camera after the PCs are done dispatching them.

I love it!
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 128 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Mon 4 Aug 2008
at 13:58
  • msg #575

Re: New Players

My main complaint is that the ungrateful swine have bled over uniforms that we could have looted. Inconsiderate mooks...
Fusilier
GM, 207 posts
Your Guide
Mon 4 Aug 2008
at 23:57
  • msg #576

Re: New Players

Oskar Friedmann:
I've been *named*!  Now I'm a real boy!

In other news, that's a pretty grim scene the GM painted in the bunker.  I've been playing too many fantasy games of late where the hordes of evil sort of just dissolve off-camera after the PCs are done dispatching them.

I love it!


Hope nobody is bothered by any of it. I did check 'mature' for the game as a reminder that there isn't a lot of "nice" things about the Twilight world - but still don't want to put off any of the players.
Ben Jagelis
player, 186 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 5 Aug 2008
at 03:15
  • msg #577

Re: New Players

We're all adults (I hope). A bit of blood and guts to set the scene in my mind is mandatory for a game like this.
As the saying goes, "War is Hell".
Marc St.Gil
player, 108 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Tue 5 Aug 2008
at 03:19
  • msg #578

opinions

Nope, you did a good job. You showed the effects without wallowing in them.

On a different note, whats the opinion on the big gun? No wheels and cracked optics, big and heavy. Optics are replaceable and it has iron sites, wheels should be easy to scrounge up, big and heavy is a problem- we would have to strap it on top of the M113. We could do it bit it would take a few minutes and some people power. Like that it would prevent using the side weapon mounts but the 50cal should still be ok.

It is not the most modern gun, but it has ammo and a respectable bang. It will be a pain to load and unload right now but if we can get wheels it will be easy to pull after that.

Wht do you guys think?
Ben Jagelis
player, 187 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 5 Aug 2008
at 04:25
  • msg #579

Re: opinions

I want, I want, I want!

But, it weighs 300kg (with wheels, etc) and it'd be a bitch to lift up onto the '13. With the limited manpower and time we've got (assuming the attack was heard of a message sent) I believe we need to get back on the road in a real hurry.
Helmut Meyer
player, 131 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Tue 5 Aug 2008
at 06:04
  • msg #580

Re: opinions

Lets go. This is a fixed location. The enemy probably has each of their bunker's already plotted for quick mortar/arty fire. We should assume the outpost made the call for help. Even if there isn't indirect support, this is a static position, and these are usually supported by a mobile reaction force correct?

Boswell's report at the beginning of the game mentioned Tczew as one of three regimenatal garrisons for the 12th Cav... thats only a few clicks south and they'd probably have outlying units (guessing). These are the same guys we tangled with earlier so they are aware of NATO in their vicinity and probably waiting for us to get spotted again for round two.

I'm probably spouting what everyone is aware, and you guys know more about it than me, but I think we really really should take what we have and split. Taking every last salt and pepper shaker is going to take longer. Food was out primary concern and its loaded. Lets split.
Ben Jagelis
player, 189 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 5 Aug 2008
at 06:59
  • msg #581

Re: opinions

You'd better change the names of the assault group in the after action report.....
Fusilier
GM, 210 posts
Your Guide
Tue 5 Aug 2008
at 08:27
  • msg #582

Re: opinions

Sorry about that Varis.
Ben Jagelis
player, 190 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 5 Aug 2008
at 12:08
  • msg #583

After action report

Umm, still not right. Ben was in the M113 the whole time.....
Fusilier
GM, 211 posts
Your Guide
Wed 6 Aug 2008
at 00:48
  • msg #584

Re: After action report

LOL, damn... fixed again.
This message was last edited by the GM at 00:48, Wed 06 Aug 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 192 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 6 Aug 2008
at 03:29
  • msg #585

Re: After action report

Fusilier:
...your beeline west...

Umm, shouldn't that be east?   :S
Fusilier
GM, 214 posts
Your Guide
Wed 6 Aug 2008
at 03:38
  • msg #586

Re: After action report

I'm adding the loot from the bunker. If you took something for yourself, please update you char sheet - inventory.

East.
Ben Jagelis
player, 193 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 6 Aug 2008
at 03:48
  • msg #587

Re: After action report

Could you include the weight of the cargo in each vehicle? It'd be helpful to know just how heavily loaded they are and it could prove important when we reach the water.
Consideration should probably be made to finding/constructing a raft or small boat to pull along behind us loaded with some of the less important items we can afford to lose.
Marc St.Gil
player, 109 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Wed 6 Aug 2008
at 04:50
  • msg #588

Re: After action report

2 BTR's and a light tank! We managed to get some attention. :)
Ben Jagelis
player, 194 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 6 Aug 2008
at 05:12
  • msg #589

Re: After action report

I should hope so too! After taking out the softskins without trouble the previous night, I would be rather insulted if they didn't send armour!
Next time we might want to think about setting an anti-armour ambush as they're likely to send in the big guns (tanks, BMPs, etc) and they're unlikely to stop chasing for a while.
Although we've only hit them twice and inflicted relatively minor damage (for a division), they can't have two armoured vehicles moving about at will in their area of responsibility.
Setting up an ambush will eliminate or reduce their capability for pursuit, at least in the short term.
Helmut Meyer
player, 132 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Wed 6 Aug 2008
at 05:44
  • msg #590

Re: After action report

Ben Jagelis:
I should hope so too! After taking out the softskins without trouble the previous night, I would be rather insulted if they didn't send armour!
Next time we might want to think about setting an anti-armour ambush as they're likely to send in the big guns (tanks, BMPs, etc) and they're unlikely to stop chasing for a while.
Although we've only hit them twice and inflicted relatively minor damage (for a division), they can't have two armoured vehicles moving about at will in their area of responsibility.
Setting up an ambush will eliminate or reduce their capability for pursuit, at least in the short term.


That might be a good idea. Looks like the GM hinted they are either going to catch up to us or be waiting ahead (unless we change direction). They know our strength now and will no doubt raise the response (like in this case). Our luck won't last either.

The only good thing is we shouldn't worry about any MBTs in this area... at least I hope we don't have to.

Edit - That road the reaction force came from, thats the one with the Rotmanka label? Just wondering
This message was last edited by the player at 05:46, Wed 06 Aug 2008.
Tom Handley
player, 69 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Wed 6 Aug 2008
at 06:55
  • msg #591

Re: After action report

M2 complement:
Crew ( 3 ): McCarthy (Commander) St.Gil (Gunner) Stone (Driver)
Passengers ( 6 ): Weiss, Meyer, Handley, Creswick, Fox, Babicevs, Fox


Arthur's twin is along for the ride?
Fusilier
GM, 215 posts
Your Guide
Wed 6 Aug 2008
at 07:02
  • msg #592

Re: After action report

Lets just say its not a good day today.
Matt Doyle
player, 2 posts
2nd Lieutenant
Special Forces (US)
Wed 6 Aug 2008
at 08:32
  • msg #593

Re: After action report

Any posibility of playing a seperate string? These guys are happy about finally drawing attention!
Kurt Weiss
player, 111 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Wed 6 Aug 2008
at 09:22
  • msg #594

Re: After action report

I'm not...
Ben Jagelis
player, 195 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 6 Aug 2008
at 11:14
  • msg #595

Re: After action report

Neither am I but it's a bit hard to avoid attention when you're getting about in what's probably the only two tracked vehicles for a hundred miles! (ignoring that pathetic PT-76).
Still, we're making some headway across the country and doing a bit of damage to the enemy as we go.
Ben Jagelis
player, 197 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Thu 7 Aug 2008
at 02:19
  • msg #596

Re: After action report

Varis Babicevs:
"Why do they not decide to leave rocket gun behind before I move gawdamned thing!?!"

Maybe you should have asked first?   :D
Stone
player, 95 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Thu 7 Aug 2008
at 11:26
  • msg #597

Re: After action report

I'll be off line for 3 days, doing a walk through the flinders ranges (australia).  Rain is forecast ... :-)
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 133 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Fri 8 Aug 2008
at 11:10
  • msg #598

Re: After action report

OK, I have a Navigation asset of 8. Anyone higher than that?

Surely someone must be better?
Marc St.Gil
player, 112 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Fri 8 Aug 2008
at 11:17
  • msg #599

Re: After action report

I have a 9. Hope we can do better. :)
Helmut Meyer
player, 134 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Fri 8 Aug 2008
at 11:39
  • msg #600

Re: After action report

Weiss and Fox might have higher, but they are inside. I'd think a navigator would have to be able to watch where we have been going to keep on track. Ben's nav rating is listed as poor, and you two are the only other guys besides the drivers who'd be able to do the task (I think).
Ben Jagelis
player, 199 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 8 Aug 2008
at 13:08
  • msg #601

Re: After action report

Helmut Meyer:
Ben's nav rating is listed as poor...

How's a 3 for poor?   :(

Typically it's the vehicle commander who's the navigator. The driver has their hands too full and the gunner is almost always down in the turret with only the gunsight to see through (as well as having their hands full).

As the M2 is leading, it's up to McCarthy to navigate, perhaps with St Gil checking if we're happy with him having his hands off the trigger every now and then.

Ben has a compass he's willing to part with if it's any help. It's not like he's much good with it...
Kurt Weiss
player, 112 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Fri 8 Aug 2008
at 14:19
  • msg #602

Re: After action report

He'll take over for Lt. Jagelis for a bit if he likes.  But someone has to indicate that they want or need help.  He has done a fair amount of vehicle land navigation in his time.  Weiss is about where St.Gil is for skill, maybe a touch better.
Ben Jagelis
player, 201 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 8 Aug 2008
at 14:38
  • msg #603

Re: After action report

Quite happy to step back for a bit and just relax. It's damn hard work being a commander, always having to be alert!   ;)
Arthur Fox
player, 58 posts
Sergeant
British Army
Fri 8 Aug 2008
at 16:45
  • msg #604

Re: After action report

Fox's navigational skill are about the same as the major's.

In stats that means a meagre 8.
Tom P. Kelly
player, 42 posts
Spec4
Medic (US)
Fri 8 Aug 2008
at 21:20
  • msg #605

Re: After action report

Who is in which vehicle at the moment?

More specifically, who is the ranking officer in the M113 right now?
Tom Handley
player, 72 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Fri 8 Aug 2008
at 21:43
  • msg #606

Re: After action report

Technically, it's Captain Gideon.  But as she and Lt. Boswell are not exactly front-line combatants, Lt. Jagelis is in charge of the beast.
Tom P. Kelly
player, 43 posts
Spec4
Medic (US)
Fri 8 Aug 2008
at 23:41
  • msg #607

Re: After action report

Excellent, thank you.
Tom Handley
player, 73 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Sat 9 Aug 2008
at 00:15
  • msg #608

Re: After action report

Helmut Meyer:
At least Varis wasn't stinking up the place with his farts again.
Varis Babicevs:
All those sweets Varis had consumed earlier in the evening are not sitting well. Painful cramps begin to assail his stomach. He shifts in his seat, in obvious discomfort. After a few minutes of fidgetting about, he breaks wind quite loudly. Then again. And a third time. Much relieved, he sighs, smiles to himself, and sinks back into his seat, promptly dropping off to sleep.


You HAD to say something, Meyer.
Ben Jagelis
player, 202 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 9 Aug 2008
at 13:40
  • msg #609

Re: After action report

I'm sooooooo glad Ben's in the other vehicle....   :P
Fusilier
GM, 217 posts
Your Guide
Sat 9 Aug 2008
at 16:05
  • msg #610

Re: After action report

I didn't push on things until I was sure of things. Are you going to keep on the push to the ferry village or handle the radio call?
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 135 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sat 9 Aug 2008
at 16:11
  • msg #611

Re: After action report

Sorry, I was waiting for whoever initiated the radio check to deal with it. I hadn't realised it was an NPC. I'll get onto it now.
Ben Jagelis
player, 203 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sun 10 Aug 2008
at 12:33
  • msg #612

Re: After action report

I would have responded but as JJ's got the rank....   ;)
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 139 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sun 10 Aug 2008
at 22:15
  • msg #613

Re: After action report

I'm on holiday for a week starting tomorrow, I might be able to get to an internet cafe in the week, but I can't promise to post. Sorry for the short notice, it's a last minute job my brother just sprung on me.


Don't Section 8 me in my absence, please!
Ben Jagelis
player, 205 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sun 10 Aug 2008
at 23:22
  • msg #614

Re: After action report

John Jameson McCarthy:
I'm on holiday for a week starting tomorrow...

Oh crap. You mean Ben's going to have to step up and make some command decisions?

Scary stuff.....   :/
Kurt Weiss
player, 114 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Tue 12 Aug 2008
at 22:23
  • msg #615

Re: After action report

I think what we (Weiss, Fox, and Meyer) were sent to check out has been discovered as our latest additions.  Do we still want to roleplay that out or just kind of gloss over that and just assume it happened, or was cut short, upon realizing who it was?
Oskar Friedmann
player, 10 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Tue 12 Aug 2008
at 23:47
  • msg #616

Re: After action report

I think we're actually waiting for a GM-type to post for the boat-man, at which point me and Doyle disembark.
Matt Doyle
player, 4 posts
2nd Lieutenant
Special Forces (US)
Wed 13 Aug 2008
at 02:23
  • msg #617

Re: After action report

Provided they don't just plain bark at us too much.
Ben Jagelis
player, 208 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 13 Aug 2008
at 03:10
  • msg #618

Re: After action report

Bark? What are you talking about man? It's the bullets you need to be concerned with! ;)
Fusilier
GM, 220 posts
Your Guide
Wed 13 Aug 2008
at 12:41
  • msg #619

Re: After action report

Sorry for the delay everyone. Trying to coordinate with a guest contributor (Rae) and we live in opposite time zones. I have the impression I might have left people in the wind the last post or two. Hopefully with a new chapter I can get everyone back on the same page and moving ahead as we were.
Tom Handley
player, 75 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Wed 13 Aug 2008
at 12:57
  • msg #620

Re: After action report

Hee hee!  Here I was, joking to myself the boat was Damien's, and it turns out to be true.  I thought Damien was Rae's creation, but was not 100% certain, as I have been refraining from looking in my copy of Pirates of the Vistula.  You guys (Fusilier and Rae) sure put one over on me.
This message was last edited by the player at 13:22, Wed 13 Aug 2008.
Helmut Meyer
player, 138 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Wed 13 Aug 2008
at 13:53
  • msg #621

Re: After action report

LOL. Damian!? A twilight 2000 game crossover? In the time line this must be before fate caught up to him in Tarnobzreg? Awesome addition.
Ben Jagelis
player, 209 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 13 Aug 2008
at 14:18
  • msg #622

Crossovers

If you think that's something, then you probably don't want to head down to Krakow about now.....

;)
Tom Handley
player, 76 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Wed 13 Aug 2008
at 15:17
  • msg #623

Re: After action report

Helmut Meyer:
LOL. Damian!? A twilight 2000 game crossover? In the time line this must be before fate caught up to him in Tarnobzreg? Awesome addition.

Well, yes.  In this game it is July, 2000.  In Twilight Cruise it is October, 2000.
Fusilier
GM, 221 posts
Your Guide
Wed 13 Aug 2008
at 15:28
  • msg #624

Re: After action report

Credit goes to Rae.

The boat is secured on the edge of the river. Oskar and Matt are free to unload and wade ashore. Damian is also eager to do any business with the main group... he had to get all his girls up early this morning in anticipation for some work. Kidding, I don't expect anyone to be interested, but he's more to offer than his girls considering how he spends his days.
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:28, Wed 13 Aug 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 210 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Thu 14 Aug 2008
at 02:45
  • msg #625

Re: After action report

And in my game it's late August, so it's possible Damien might show up there too....   ;)
Varis Babicevs
player, 57 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Thu 14 Aug 2008
at 23:38
  • msg #626

Re: After action report

Ben Jagelis:
And in my game it's late August, so it's possible Damien might show up there too....   ;)


Damien's always up for a side job. If the price is right... ; )

Actually, I think in the Twilight Cruise timeline, Damien hadn't been to Krakow before. If I'd only known!

Anyway, all credit goes to fusilier for coming up with the idea for a cross-over. I jumped at the chance to play Damien again. He is SO nothing like me. I feel a little guilty just for having thought him up!
Ben Jagelis
player, 212 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 15 Aug 2008
at 00:37
  • msg #627

Re: After action report

Well in that case we might have to come up with something else.....   :P
Fusilier
GM, 224 posts
Your Guide
Sat 16 Aug 2008
at 06:39
  • msg #628

Re: After action report

I know dealings and such are usually handled by a minimum number of people, but don't be shy to speak up. Some people are silent, letting the top leadership handle things but don't think you needn't be heard or anything.
Ben Jagelis
player, 214 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 16 Aug 2008
at 12:33
  • msg #629

Re: After action report

And Ben is definately NOT the person to be negotiating deals of any sort (he's not bright enough to realise he's being conned).

Edit: Pounds, Kilograms, Stones, it's all gibberish to Ben....   ;)
This message was last edited by the player at 13:03, Sat 16 Aug 2008.
Tom Handley
player, 80 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Sat 16 Aug 2008
at 15:19
  • msg #630

Vacation warning

Hey, everybody, I will be gone next week from the 23rd through the 26th.  I won a trip to Las Vegas!  I will still be reading and posting here until about suppertime on the 22nd (have to be up at Oh-dark-hundred to make the drive to the airport to catch the 8am flight).  Then I should be back here on the 27th.
Fusilier
GM, 225 posts
Your Guide
Sat 16 Aug 2008
at 16:11
  • msg #631

Re: Vacation warning

Thanks for letting us know. Have a great time.
Ben Jagelis
player, 218 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 19 Aug 2008
at 05:07
  • msg #632

Re: Vacation warning

Just waiting on the tactical map to go up. Then Ben will be screaming orders and the fight will really be on.
Fusilier
GM, 229 posts
Your Guide
Tue 19 Aug 2008
at 05:34
  • msg #633

Re: Vacation warning

Ben Jagelis:
Just waiting on the tactical map to go up. Then Ben will be screaming orders and the fight will really be on.


Working on it this very minute.
Fusilier
GM, 230 posts
Your Guide
Tue 19 Aug 2008
at 05:56
  • msg #634

Map

Ok, map is up. I had to use my own judgment in a few cases where there was little to go by. I didn't include anyone on the insert map who was in a vehicle (Stone, Marc = Bradley.  Jordan, Gideon, Creswick = M113).

PM me if you think your placement is way off.
Ben Jagelis
player, 219 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 19 Aug 2008
at 06:31
  • msg #635

Re: Map

Kelly is in the M113 and should have been attending to Captain Gideon. (ie. drugging her senseless!)
Fusilier
GM, 231 posts
Your Guide
Tue 19 Aug 2008
at 06:40
  • msg #636

Re: Map

Ben Jagelis:
Kelly is in the M113 and should have been attending to Captain Gideon. (ie. drugging her senseless!)


Ok, it'll be so. I seem to have left him out of the map too. Kelly is sort of missing, so hopefully with the combat he'll resume posting.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 18 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Tue 19 Aug 2008
at 14:02
  • msg #637

Re: Map

Rolling to see how aware Oskar is of the location to the enemy sniper that aced Creswick.

10:02, Today: Oskar Friedmann rolled 16 using 1d20. Observation.

Crap.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 19 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Tue 19 Aug 2008
at 14:08
  • msg #638

Re: Map

Also, GM, could you post up where the motorcycle is?  I'm thinking the FN-MAG would be really useful but I don't want Oskar to meander out into the firing line to get it.
Fusilier
GM, 232 posts
Your Guide
Tue 19 Aug 2008
at 15:28
  • msg #639

Re: Map

The bike and your rucksacks are right where Weiss and Jagelis are.
Fusilier
GM, 233 posts
Your Guide
Tue 19 Aug 2008
at 15:31
  • msg #640

Re: Map

Oskar Friedmann:
Rolling to see how aware Oskar is of the location to the enemy sniper that aced Creswick.
10:02, Today: Oskar Friedmann rolled 16 using 1d20. Observation.


Speaking of rolls, it seems I over looked the big red label indicating the enemy fire rolls were rolled in secret. In any case, you know the results. I only hide rolls which I don't want to give anything special away. This way you can see the mechanics resolved (a bit).
Marc St.Gil
player, 114 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Wed 20 Aug 2008
at 02:20
  • msg #641

Re: Map

I appologize for being out of touch the last few days. I was robbed again and have had to replace the pc. I have everything back up and should be good. Give me a few minutes to catch up and I will make my presence known IG.
Ben Jagelis
player, 221 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 20 Aug 2008
at 03:43
  • msg #642

Re: Map

More orders to come depending on how people react and the effectiveness of outgoing (and incoming) fire.

How long will each "turn" be? How long can we assume each post will cover or how much can be achieved per post?
Stone
player, 103 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Wed 20 Aug 2008
at 07:57
  • msg #643

Re: Map

Fusilier:
Ok, map is up. I had to use my own judgment in a few cases where there was little to go by. I didn't include anyone on the insert map who was in a vehicle (Stone, Marc = Bradley.  Jordan, Gideon, Creswick = M113).

PM me if you think your placement is way off.


Which thread is the map in?
Fusilier
GM, 234 posts
Your Guide
Wed 20 Aug 2008
at 08:00
  • msg #644

Re: Map

Ok, I'll put up the turn resolution as soon as I get home from work. After that, lets try to get everyone's post in on time (including me) so that the combat can flow smoothly and quickly ok?

Turns will be the usual 5-10 seconds. However, I basically double movement rates to accommodate for the slow style of play we have to use.

Attn: Mark101, are you back in play yet? I don't want to NPC any leadership decisions, so I am just checking if I need to work something out IG.
Fusilier
GM, 235 posts
Your Guide
Wed 20 Aug 2008
at 08:02
  • msg #645

Re: Map

Stone:
Which thread is the map in?


Very first one... Intel, Maps & Comms

link to a message in this game

Scroll down a couple entries to around the middle. 4 maps, bottom one is current battle map.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 146 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Wed 20 Aug 2008
at 10:08
  • msg #646

Re: Map

Yes, I'm back.
This message was last edited by the player at 10:11, Wed 20 Aug 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 222 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 20 Aug 2008
at 12:26
  • msg #647

Re: Map

Stone:
We still have the still attached.  Do you want to get the still detached (by the dismounts) <Blue>and roll on target?

That would be the virtually empty tanker behind the M2.
I wouldn't bother waiting on anyone besides JJ either. Everyone close by are more likely in my opinion to want to be on foot. Of course I can't speak for them and could be wrong....
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 147 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Wed 20 Aug 2008
at 12:28
  • msg #648

Re: Map

That's what I thought too, once we've found out what the mortar rounds do, JJ will detach the tank trailer and get in. If the mortar rounds haven't killed him, that is.
Ben Jagelis
player, 223 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 20 Aug 2008
at 12:31
  • msg #649

Re: Map

Why bother? If you're that worried about the trailer being a problem, move a few hundred metres first out of the immediate danger zone.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 148 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Wed 20 Aug 2008
at 12:39
  • msg #650

Re: Map

Fair point, if the worst that can happen is that it breaks off at combat speed, it's not worth worrying about. Is that the worst case scenario?
Ben Jagelis
player, 224 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 20 Aug 2008
at 12:52
  • msg #651

Re: Map

Well, it's not likely to do much damage to a vehicle about 40 times heavier than it.

AND armoured....
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 149 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Wed 20 Aug 2008
at 13:18
  • msg #652

Re: Map

Congrats!!

Post 1500 gone!
Oskar Friedmann
player, 21 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Wed 20 Aug 2008
at 13:31
  • msg #653

Re: Map

Marc St.Gil:
I appologize for being out of touch the last few days. I was robbed again and have had to replace the pc. I have everything back up and should be good. Give me a few minutes to catch up and I will make my presence known IG.


Wow.  What a shitty load of crap to swallow.  Again?  That sucks.  Do you have renter's/homeowner's insurance?
Ben Jagelis
player, 225 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 20 Aug 2008
at 13:41
  • msg #654

Re: Map

link to a message in another game
What a great story.... :(
Oskar Friedmann
player, 22 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Wed 20 Aug 2008
at 14:03
  • msg #655

Re: Map

Sounds like it's someone in your neighborhood, probably within a block or two.  They know your hours.

Of course, unless they're hanging around outside smoking menthols you can't pick them out.
Fusilier
GM, 237 posts
Your Guide
Wed 20 Aug 2008
at 15:19
  • msg #656

Re: Map

Phew, thats done. Alot of stuff to go through for 16 people, plus enemy. Ok, a couple of points...

1 - As mentioned before. PCs can die/be wounded. If there was no danger of getting hit, where would the challenge be? I hope that if anyone gets hit by roll of the die, you bear with it. Last thing I want is people to quit or lose interest because their guy is laid up shot to pieces.

2 - Keep in mind the limitations a PC can do in a combat turn. I don't mind stretching it out a little since its a play-by-post and it takes forever to resolve a simple engagement. However, please try to remember this.

3 - I will update the map with a couple minor adjustments. It shouldn't really affect the majority of you. The enemy is still 200-250 meters away and the terrain the same. Just means who is in which "group".
Fusilier
GM, 238 posts
Your Guide
Wed 20 Aug 2008
at 15:28
  • msg #657

Re: Map

I just edited in the mortar fire which was overlooked.

EDIT AGAIN: I also indicated on the map the WP smoke since it has implications for the battlefield. I'm not going to plot all the HE hits.
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:41, Wed 20 Aug 2008.
Fusilier
GM, 239 posts
Your Guide
Wed 20 Aug 2008
at 15:47
  • msg #658

Re: Map

A little visual aid to illustrate the riverside terrain. This photo is of the Vistula region you are in. Even in the open, at 200-250 meters the slope and curvature of the terrain is going to be provide protection as long as you stay low.

Helmut Meyer
player, 143 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Wed 20 Aug 2008
at 16:08
  • msg #659

Re: Map

LOL at Damian. What a fine exit. I'm cool with Meyer getting iced. Thats not a suggestion or invitation, but if there its just NPCs getting whacked then its not fun. Hey! 1500.

Sorry to hear about your house and property :(
Ben Jagelis
player, 226 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 20 Aug 2008
at 23:58
  • msg #660

Re: Map

Fusilier:
Even in the open, at 200-250 meters the slope and curvature of the terrain is going to be provide protection as long as you stay low.

Note that even on a apparently dead flat playing field, there is some small amout of cover. If you lay flat, you'll be able to notice slight dips and humps in the surface which might be JUST enough to save your skin.
We were trained to ALWAYS be looking for these dips and humps, while walking along, running, crawling, shooting - at all times!

Good news for us is that we're not on a playing field but the far more undulating floodplain alongside one of the larger rivers in Europe.

Bad news is so are the enemy..... :(
Ben Jagelis
player, 227 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Thu 21 Aug 2008
at 02:05
  • msg #661

Re: Map

link to a message in this game
Is the list of who's got radios completely up to date.
I don't expect to be able to contact either Oskar or Matt directly at this time even if they do have radios as I'm not sure our tactical radios are on the same frequency yet.

Just so everyone knows, I'm estimating that yells will only be intelligable for about 50 metres, if that, due to the noise of engines, gunfire and explosions.
I'm also assuming everyone is a professional enough soldier (besides Boswell) to know to keep an eye out for hand signals, etc and not drift off into their own world, ignoring others desperate attempts to communicate visually.
Matt Doyle
player, 13 posts
2nd Lieutenant
Special Forces (US)
Thu 21 Aug 2008
at 05:17
  • msg #662

Re: Map

As I recall hearing you guys on the radios was how we found you in the first place. So, it seems that not being on the same freq now wouldn't exactly follow.
Ben Jagelis
player, 228 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Thu 21 Aug 2008
at 05:42
  • msg #663

Re: Map

True, but it's normal to operate on different frequencies for long range and tactical comms. As most of us are currently using tac radios (those with any radio anyway), it's possible we're on that freq.
Of course we need to hear form the GM before that's set in stone.
Ben Jagelis
player, 230 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 22 Aug 2008
at 01:48
  • msg #664

Re: Map

John Jameson McCarthy:
"Negatory on that. Jagelis has command on the ground for now."

As a 1st LT, Bens got the rank over Doyle (if only just) and is a known element to the group. Technically I think Boswell has the rank too, but I wouldn't worry about listening to him - nobody else does...   :P

Anyway, Ben's essentially going to leave the western part of the battlefield to others (the two vehicles, Handley, Boswell, Doyle & Oskar) and concentrate on those he knows he can communicate with. Could be an idea for Oskar to grab hold of the remainder of the infantry element, while JJ looks after the vehicles and provides long range fire support until the mortars are sighted. As it's very unlikely the mortars will be located where they could come under fire easily by infantry, it's vital the vehicles deal with them - sooner the better to before they've a chance to adjust on to us!
Matt Doyle
player, 15 posts
2nd Lieutenant
Special Forces (US)
Fri 22 Aug 2008
at 01:51
  • msg #665

Re: Map

I actually knew that I was just trying to go with the flow during the fog of war and all that. I would have had Matt just the M113 but as I read the last from JJ he was pulled off that so he'll just be looking to hit something befor it eats him:-)
Ben Jagelis
player, 231 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 22 Aug 2008
at 01:57
  • msg #666

Re: Map

Always a good plan!   :P

I think the events in the M113 are going to have to be dealt with by those actually in the vehicle. The rest of us are just far too busy keeping our on skins in one piece!.

So, it's up to the driver, Jordan, and the medic, Kelly to subdue a crazy woman...

May I suggest a swift thump to the head with something heavy followed by the jab of a needle?   ;)
Matt Doyle
player, 16 posts
2nd Lieutenant
Special Forces (US)
Fri 22 Aug 2008
at 05:31
  • msg #667

Re: Map

For me or the crazy woman? Ive tried it for a long weekend away but yhere really isn't anything to recommend it.:)
Oskar Friedmann
player, 24 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Fri 22 Aug 2008
at 12:50
  • msg #668

Re: Map

Ben Jagelis:
Anyway, Ben's essentially going to leave the western part of the battlefield to others (the two vehicles, Handley, Boswell, Doyle & Oskar) and concentrate on those he knows he can communicate with. Could be an idea for Oskar to grab hold of the remainder of the infantry element, while JJ looks after the vehicles and provides long range fire support until the mortars are sighted. As it's very unlikely the mortars will be located where they could come under fire easily by infantry, it's vital the vehicles deal with them - sooner the better to before they've a chance to adjust on to us!


Oskar is actually on the east side, moving (with/behind/ahead of?) Weiss and Fox along the river.

With the mortar rounds coming in and no orders when I posted it seemed the wisest choice.
Ben Jagelis
player, 232 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 23 Aug 2008
at 08:22
  • msg #669

Re: Map

Hmm, not according to the map.... :S
I know you posted you were heading to the riverbank, but it seems like you had about 100m to travel. Under fire, that's a long way.
This message was last edited by the player at 08:23, Sat 23 Aug 2008.
Fusilier
GM, 240 posts
Your Guide
Sat 23 Aug 2008
at 09:03
  • msg #670

Re: Map

He's heading to Weiss/Fox, but needs to cover the ground first.
Helmut Meyer
player, 145 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sat 23 Aug 2008
at 09:43
  • msg #671

Re: Map

If we are not really worried about the trailer, and hoping for a speedy counterattack, why not move the Brad at double combat speed? Its rated at 25 meters a turn... pretty slow. But doubled would be 50 and Fusilier doubles it again for gameplay - thats a nice 100 meters covered in a turn.

Not trying to be a "back seat driver" or anything. Just saying. Since it could also go three time the safe speed at 75m (or 150m in our game) a turn. Stone's a good driver - lets see it.
This message was last edited by the player at 09:43, Sat 23 Aug 2008.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 25 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Sat 23 Aug 2008
at 10:35
  • msg #672

Re: Map

I was a little confused about ranges... if you use the scale at the bottom of the map we started out around 400m from the treeline but the post said 200m.

What are the distances involved?  I don't think that making a 100m dash across an open field would have been the first thing to occur to Oskar as a wise move.
This message was last edited by the player at 10:49, Sat 23 Aug 2008.
Fusilier
GM, 242 posts
Your Guide
Sat 23 Aug 2008
at 11:00
  • msg #673

Re: Map

200m from enemy to M113 and riverboat. The M2 was about 50m behind that. I improved the accuracy of the scale. However, in the first combat turn the enemy was listed as 200m away.
This message was last edited by the GM at 11:06, Sat 23 Aug 2008.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 26 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Sat 23 Aug 2008
at 18:12
  • msg #674

Re: Map

Helmut Meyer:
Ben Jagelis:
"Meyer! Grab that gun from the bike,"


Meyer lows the muzzle of his rifle and cocks his head towards Ben. "What? Ja... alright." Left on the side of the water's edge was the two new fellas' motorcycle. A MAG-58 GPMG strapped to the frame. Hoping the ammunition was easily found, Meyer gets up into a low crouch and rushes over. He prays the Bradley's handiwork lasts as long as it takes to get to the bike.


Actually its a Belgian FN-MAG.
Helmut Meyer
player, 147 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sat 23 Aug 2008
at 18:51
  • msg #675

Re: Map

Isn't that the same weapon under a different name.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 27 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Sat 23 Aug 2008
at 18:57
  • msg #676

Re: Map

(after some Googling...)

It seems so.  Looks like my life as a civilian has not given me the nomenclature chops to keep up.  :)
Kurt Weiss
player, 123 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sat 23 Aug 2008
at 19:33
  • msg #677

Re: Map

...has been...   ;)
Stone
player, 108 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Sun 24 Aug 2008
at 02:16
  • msg #678

Re: Map

I just checked the tactical map, and the irrigation ditch is further south from the bradley than i thought.

are we sure the morter fire was comning from the west?  I cant reember why we thoght to head west?

I thought maybe hte mortar would be setup behind the riflemen, to the south.
Ben Jagelis
player, 234 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sun 24 Aug 2008
at 06:13
  • msg #679

Re: Map

Yes, the sounds of mortar fire was definately to the west. I also imagine there is a damn fine reason why they're dropping smoke directly west - probably to screen the approach of an assault force which the two vehicles are likely to run head first into (and hopefully right over the top!)
Ben Jagelis
player, 235 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sun 24 Aug 2008
at 11:57
  • msg #680

Re: Map

Tom P. Kelly:
Killing Bad-guys (hopefully) with the .50 (No idea how much ammo)

link to a message in this game
Armament: M2HB .50cal HMG w/Gunshield
Ammunition: .50cal x 1762 (belt at 82 rds)

Bucketloads especially when you consider more than one belt can (and should be) linked together to reduce the necessity for reloading.
Note the change to the .50's recoil as shown below:
Fusilier:
I reevaluated the recoil listed in the book. Having used the .50 on a tripod (but not fired from a vehicle mount) I agree think its too high. Using other sources, I agreed to use different recoil values. I like to use the official rules as much as possible, but have to accept the in some cases other people have much more experience in technical aspects and have put more research into realistic rules.
Fusilier (PM):
I looked it over. After reviewing your math, I don't think that the recoil is accurate given in the book. When its used on a tripod, my experience was that it was locked down after aiming/before firing. With this in mind, I think I'll go with Paul's 3 for tripod firing. Locked in the tripod it was very stable (same with the MAG GPMG and probably most others too).

My experience doesn't extend to firing from a vehicle though. I don't know anything about vehicle mounts. If it isn't locked down, maybe a 4 would be better (better than a 7 anyways).

This message was last edited by the player at 12:09, Sun 24 Aug 2008.
Tom P. Kelly
player, 50 posts
Spec4
Medic (US)
Mon 25 Aug 2008
at 00:09
  • msg #681

Re: Map

In reply to Ben Jagelis (msg #680):

I never actually fired it from a tripod, all my experience was firing it from the top of a M1064A2, which is actually really nice. The M2's heavy-ass bolt and stiff guide rod spring suck most of the recoil of that monster round. The rest is transferred to the vehicle, which is heavy enough to pretty much absorb the remaining recoil. Sure, it rocks a little, but the spring-buffered pintle mount allows for smooth and even aiming.

And thanks for the ammo count!
Oskar Friedmann
player, 29 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Mon 25 Aug 2008
at 00:28
  • msg #682

Re: Map

My understanding of vehicle-mounted non-artillery in T2k is that their recoil is always considered negligible.
Ben Jagelis
player, 236 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 25 Aug 2008
at 01:57
  • msg #683

Re: Map

True enough for a proper vehicle mount like the coax machinegun in the M2 or the 25mm AC, but on a simple pintle mount, this can't be right (the rules don't say one way or the other as fas as I can recall).
I've never personally fired a .50, all I've got to work with is my experiences with lighter weapons such as the M60, observation, and stories from others who have.
I know from my grandfathers WWII experience as bomber crew that the M2HB waist guns required the gunner to either lean heavily into the weapon or hang back on it with legs braced against the side of the aircraft.

As the M1064 is essentially the same vehicle as the M113 (minor differences really relating mainly to the cargo compartment and hatch), I'm inclined to give Gwalchfaen's experience a lot of weight. I'm sure the mounts have evolved substantially since my grandfathers time (even if the weapon itself has remained substantially unchanged).
Oskar Friedmann
player, 30 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Mon 25 Aug 2008
at 14:55
  • msg #684

Re: Map

Poo hits fan, film at 11.

A boat?!  Oh dear.  Go Fox Go!  See Fox Shoot!  Shoot Fox Shoot!
Helmut Meyer
player, 148 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Mon 25 Aug 2008
at 15:56
  • msg #685

Boat

Fusilier:
I am not that evil.


LOL, we'll see. It ain't over yet.
Varis Babicevs
player, 62 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Mon 25 Aug 2008
at 23:53
  • msg #686

Re: Boat


Yes, the hostile boat was part of our good GM's plan from the start. In fact, I was beginning to think that he'd forgotten about it or changed his mind.

Boss, can Varis see the boat as he approaches the riverbank? I can't tell by looking at the TAC map. Also, what's the range. I need this info for Varis' next turn. Thanks.
Helmut Meyer
player, 150 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Mon 25 Aug 2008
at 23:57
  • msg #687

Re: Boat

Whoops. Oskar I thought your post meant you wanted to use the MG and not Meyer.
Arthur Fox
player, 65 posts
Sergeant
British Army
Tue 26 Aug 2008
at 19:47
  • msg #688

Re: Boat

Fox can shoot, just need to know where that boat is....

Waiting for the map to be updated before I decide on my next action.
Ben Jagelis
player, 238 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 26 Aug 2008
at 23:28
  • msg #689

Re: Boat

I'm waiting for the enemy boat to appear on the map too.

Hmm, maybe that LAW strapped to the bike might make a dent in them?   :P
Varis Babicevs
player, 63 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Tue 26 Aug 2008
at 23:30
  • msg #690

Re: Boat

Ben Jagelis:
Hmm, maybe that LAW strapped to the bike might make a dent in them?   :P


Varis has an RPG-18 with him so if the GM gives his blessing, he'll take a shot at the boat next round.
Marc St.Gil
player, 119 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Tue 26 Aug 2008
at 23:39
  • msg #691

Re: Boat

From the description it is a modified civilian speedboat, it should be fairly breakable. :) It's a coin toss, shoot the boat and it blows up if you hit it, shoot the 2-3 crew and the boat stops being a threat. Shooting the boat might be easyer depending on the situation, if it is low to the water the crew may be easyer to pick off.
Either way, that boat should go away fast.
Ben Jagelis
player, 239 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 26 Aug 2008
at 23:40
  • msg #692

Re: Boat

Nothing wrong with a couple of bursts of machinegun fire either.....
Fusilier
GM, 244 posts
Your Guide
Wed 27 Aug 2008
at 04:04
  • msg #693

Re: Boat

Arthur Fox:
Waiting for the map to be updated before I decide on my next action.


I'm swamped right now. The turn post will go up in time, but I can't update the map until I get home from work (few hours). The boat is still a fair ways away... rounding the bottom end of the small island.

Correct on the type. Its civilian and despite being pressed into military use, front line heavy combat is likely not what its primary role is. However, it does make up for its weak structural defense with speed and a nasty weapon.
Ben Jagelis
player, 240 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 27 Aug 2008
at 04:06
  • msg #694

Re: Boat

But can it outrun a burst of speeding automatic fire?   :D
Fusilier
GM, 246 posts
Your Guide
Wed 27 Aug 2008
at 11:38
  • msg #695

Re: Boat

Ben Jagelis:
But can it outrun a burst of speeding automatic fire?   :D


They'll likely want to try lol.

Sorry for the delay on the map. Its up. It's science week at my school so I've been under a load of work. I had to make a project for the students on how to get electricity from a potato. I had thoughts of Twilight2000 going through my head.

Doyle, check out the thread - The Cast. Please fill in some info on your PC. Nothing detailed, just how you think he would consider himself on some skills that might be worth knowing about.
Tom Handley
player, 85 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Wed 27 Aug 2008
at 17:35
  • msg #696

I'm back!

Hey gang!  I'm back from Vegas.  We had a good time there, but our trip home was a little annoying.  First off, just after we checked out, I noticed my wedding ring was missing.  I got a temporary room key and went back to find my ring on the floor of the shower.  Later, bad weather in Charlotte, NC delayed our landing there long enough that we almost missed our connecting flight to Syracuse.  We had to go directly from gate to gate with no time to get some supper or to even go to the bathroom (and boy, did I have to go to the bathroom!).  Then to top it all off, due to the rush in Charlotte, our luggage did not arrive in Syracuse.  We are waiting for US Airways to deliver it this afternoon.

As you can see, I've posted IC, and I'm all set to keep going with the battle.
Fusilier
GM, 247 posts
Your Guide
Wed 27 Aug 2008
at 17:43
  • msg #697

Re: I'm back!

Good to have you back.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:44, Wed 27 Aug 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 241 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Thu 28 Aug 2008
at 02:50
  • msg #698

Re: I'm back!

Yeah, now you can start earning your keep again and lob a few grenades their way.

What, you think we've been feeding you out of the goodness of our black hearts?

  ;)
Oskar Friedmann
player, 32 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Thu 28 Aug 2008
at 13:43
  • msg #699

Re: I'm back!

Need updated tactical map.  Have to decide what desperate measures are appropriate.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 156 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Thu 28 Aug 2008
at 13:55
  • msg #700

Request for information.

I have a question for the more knowlegable on the Commander's sight for the M2.
I've read that it can track a different target to the gunner, and I wonder if it's possible for me to make an aim manouvre and hand it over to St. Gil when he changes to the same target?

Also, can the TOW missile be launched and controlled by the Commander, or is it all down to the gunner?
Fusilier
GM, 249 posts
Your Guide
Thu 28 Aug 2008
at 15:57
  • msg #701

Re: Request for information.

John Jameson McCarthy:
Also, can the TOW missile be launched and controlled by the Commander, or is it all down to the gunner?


Don't know about the 1st question yet (its coming). Answer to this one is 'no'. The commander has auxiliary controls for the 25mm and Coax but not the TOW.
Fusilier
GM, 250 posts
Your Guide
Thu 28 Aug 2008
at 16:17
  • msg #702

Dawn

I made a couple mentionings of it (in previous turns), but I don't think I communicated very well. It is basically dawn. The sun is just cresting the horizon. Consider night vision is not in use, and being spotted works equally for both sides.
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:19, Thu 28 Aug 2008.
Helmut Meyer
player, 151 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Thu 28 Aug 2008
at 16:43
  • msg #703

Re: Dawn

Arthur Fox:
Gotcha !!Fox thought when he spotted the two persons on the enemy line. His plans had been to move first before chancing another fire, but this was an opportunity he couldn’t let pass. By experience he knew how dangerous a lone sniper could be.


Good move if I may say so myself. The sniper may not be particularly skilled or perhaps experienced. But its good we give up the opportunity to eliminate him. It'd be obviously bad if we lose sight of him again.

All these anti-armour weapons we have... M72s, RPGs, etc and they are all packed away with the rest of the gear. Arrg.

In retrospect I am not surprised. Sure we never knew when or where they'd catch up to us. But, we knew the enemy was going to up the odds for the next battle. They'd be idiots not to. Live and learn... or die and learn.
Arthur Fox
player, 68 posts
Sergeant
British Army
Thu 28 Aug 2008
at 16:45
  • msg #704

Re: Dawn

Wouldn't that put the sun in our backs in when approached from the west?

From experience I know this might have some effect on vision. I don't know how strong the sun is of course.

BTW, I want to compliment again on the perfect use of imagery. They really add to the atmosphere of the situation.
Helmut Meyer
player, 152 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Thu 28 Aug 2008
at 16:53
  • msg #705

Re: Dawn

Arthur Fox:
Wouldn't that put the sun in our backs in when approached from the west? From experience I know this might have some effect on vision. I don't know how strong the sun is of course.


Never thought of that. Maybe maybe.

Arthur Fox:
BTW, I want to compliment again on the perfect use of imagery. They really add to the atmosphere of the situation.


Yeah, same. Very cool to put faces and scenes to written words. Gives the words so much life (before we take it out).
Fusilier
GM, 251 posts
Your Guide
Thu 28 Aug 2008
at 17:15
  • msg #706

Re: Request for information.

John Jameson McCarthy:
I have a question for the more knowledgeable on the Commander's sight for the M2. I've read that it can track a different target to the gunner, and I wonder if it's possible for me to make an aim manouvre and hand it over to St. Gil when he changes to the same target?


Yes. Can be done.

Thanks Fox/Meyer.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:15, Thu 28 Aug 2008.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 157 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Thu 28 Aug 2008
at 17:17
  • msg #707

Re: Request for information.

Great, in that case, once JJ's got a lock on BMP number 2 he'll be aiming in the hope taht St. Gil can get a kill on the first and then have the benefit of an aim to try to take out the second. Is that OK?
Fusilier
GM, 252 posts
Your Guide
Thu 28 Aug 2008
at 17:19
  • msg #708

Re: Request for information.

Yes. But that would require you to continue aiming and not doing anything else for the turn correct? Not like JJM can where he is, but just wondering myself.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 33 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Thu 28 Aug 2008
at 17:22
  • msg #709

Re: Request for information.

How far from Oskar's position to the approaching motorboat?
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 158 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Thu 28 Aug 2008
at 17:23
  • msg #710

Re: Request for information.

I'd agree with that totally.
Fusilier
GM, 253 posts
Your Guide
Thu 28 Aug 2008
at 17:28
  • msg #711

Re: Request for information.

Oskar Friedmann:
How far from Oskar's position to the approaching motorboat?


Working on the map now. Looks like 250 meters.
Marc St.Gil
player, 121 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Thu 28 Aug 2008
at 21:01
  • msg #712

Re: Request for information.

Well good news bad news time.

Good news - we have better armor than they do, at short range the bushmaster will bunch anything except turret front and it will fail that only with incredible bad luck.

Good news - If these are the BMP-/3 with the 30mm we can can shrug off the average hit to the front.

Good news - if it is the BMP-1 the 73mm shoots slow

Bad news - If these are the BMP-2/3 they dump as many rounds as we do and they will get lucky sooner or later.

Bad news - if its the BMP-1 the 73mm can core us front to back.

Bad news - we still havent sighted the morters and their crews.

All in all, we have a good shot here, but I would keep your bailout pack handy and get ready to DiDi.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 159 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Fri 29 Aug 2008
at 00:36
  • msg #713

Re: Request for information.

You took the words right out of my mouth.
Varis Babicevs
player, 64 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Fri 29 Aug 2008
at 01:36
  • msg #714

Calling Shots

Oskar Friedmann:
From the reeds the FN MAG roared and spit all over the boat, making one man's head explode into mist and chewing up the front of the water around the boat in general.


Fusilier, is this GM approved? As players, I don't think we can see the results of a fellow player's die rolls. If the MAG is indeed chewing up the boat's crew, Varis may decide to switch from RPG-18 back to his '74.
Fusilier
GM, 254 posts
Your Guide
Fri 29 Aug 2008
at 02:12
  • msg #715

Re: Calling Shots

Varis Babicevs:
Fusilier, is this GM approved? As players, I don't think we can see the results of a fellow player's die rolls.


The players are more than welcome to roll their own tasks. I don't mind at all. However, while some tasks (like shooting) may be obvious I have to take into account cover, body armour, visibility, etc. That needs to be taken care of myself during the turn resolution. So... roll away, but leave the actual outcome to be determined by myself. Alright?
Ben Jagelis
player, 243 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 29 Aug 2008
at 02:55
  • msg #716

Re: Request for information.

In reply to Marc St.Gil (msg #712):

Good news - BMPs of the era in question do not have thermal vision and therefore are hampered by not being able to see through their own smoke cloud.

Have at 'em boys before they can see you!
Matt Doyle
player, 21 posts
2nd Lieutenant
Special Forces (US)
Fri 29 Aug 2008
at 06:37
  • msg #717

Re: Request for information.

You know the commander gun controls/site in the old M60 tanks were an overide to the gunner so he could pick a shot the gunner missed seing. I don't know if you guys settled the argument or not but if that's the case wouldn't it be the commander's shot?
Oskar Friedmann
player, 35 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Fri 29 Aug 2008
at 12:18
  • msg #718

Re: Request for information.

I figured it was safe to post because it was an Impossible-grade task no matter how you sliced it, with a hit to the head (among a few others to the same target) and a roll to bypass the helmet followed by a failed Quick Kill check.

Not going to happen so decisively too often, but I'll refrain from the outcomes all the same.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:20, Fri 29 Aug 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 245 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 29 Aug 2008
at 12:29
  • msg #719

Re: Request for information.

Even if it had hit the helmet (providing there was one) a 7.62mm to the forehead isn't going to be something they could just shrug off! Chances are they'd be at least seriously wounded and as a head wound, instantly rendered unconscious.
Fusilier
GM, 256 posts
Your Guide
Sat 30 Aug 2008
at 12:42
  • msg #720

Re: Request for information.

Map's updated. Hope everyone is still interested in the battle.
Ben Jagelis
player, 246 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 30 Aug 2008
at 12:51
  • msg #721

Re: Request for information.

Of course. It's just getting interesting!
Ben's finally in effective range!    :P
Tom Handley
player, 88 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Sat 30 Aug 2008
at 14:10
  • msg #722

Re: Request for information.

Ooh, just great!  Now Handley will have to wear that sling again.  Assuming he doesn't get hit again while he's down.
Helmut Meyer
player, 154 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sat 30 Aug 2008
at 15:29
  • msg #723

Re: Request for information.

Ben Jagelis:
Of course. It's just getting interesting!


100%

Oh, and hand in there Handley.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 161 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sat 30 Aug 2008
at 21:29
  • msg #724

Reality Check

1) Who can activate the smoke launchers on the Bradley?
2) If JJ can, is he able to and maintain his aim on BMP #2?
Ben Jagelis
player, 248 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sun 31 Aug 2008
at 02:43
  • msg #725

Re: Reality Check

I would imagine they're available to any of the crew with just a tap of the "panic button".
Can't imagine you'd loose your aim from a quick one handed action like that (don't make much sense design wise).
Fusilier
GM, 257 posts
Your Guide
Sun 31 Aug 2008
at 15:01
  • msg #726

Re: Reality Check

John Jameson McCarthy:
1) Who can activate the smoke launchers on the Bradley?
2) If JJ can, is he able to and maintain his aim on BMP #2?


We'll say yes to both.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 163 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sun 31 Aug 2008
at 15:43
  • msg #727

Re: Reality Check

Great, smoke a go-go it is then.
William Hicks
player, 1 post
SPC, US Army Aviation
Comedian
Mon 1 Sep 2008
at 06:14
  • msg #728

New Guy

Howdy, all...great to be here tonight!

*takes a drag from a Cowboy Killer*

Whoa sheeit!

*ducks out as Seven Six Deuce rounds fly over his head*

SHIT SHIT SHIT!  I guess I am at the wrong show tonight!
Ben Jagelis
player, 249 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 1 Sep 2008
at 07:19
  • msg #729

Re: New Guy

Oh great, a comedian in a war zone! That's all we need.....

Mind you we've already got a clown (Boswell)!
Matt Doyle
player, 24 posts
2nd Lieutenant
Special Forces (US)
Mon 1 Sep 2008
at 07:48
  • msg #730

Re: New Guy

How come we don't rate Bob Hope?
Tom P. Kelly
player, 54 posts
Spec4
Medic (US)
Mon 1 Sep 2008
at 23:46
  • msg #731

Re: New Guy

Jeez, took me all day to find a backdoor to the site...glad I haven't missed much....apparently.
Marc St.Gil
player, 123 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Tue 2 Sep 2008
at 04:05
  • msg #732

Re: New Guy

I just found the back door myself. Things may be a bit slow till they straighten this out.
William Hicks
player, 2 posts
SPC, US Army Aviation
Comedian
Tue 2 Sep 2008
at 04:10
  • msg #733

Re: New Guy

I went straight to the site...it seems to be working now.
William Hicks
player, 3 posts
SPC, US Army Aviation
Comedian
Tue 2 Sep 2008
at 08:39
  • msg #734

Re: New Guy

Matt Doyle:
How come we don't rate Bob Hope?


Because he would be pretty damn old even for this timeline.
Matt Doyle
player, 25 posts
2nd Lieutenant
Special Forces (US)
Tue 2 Sep 2008
at 08:44
  • msg #735

Re: New Guy

That didn't stop him in WWII:)
William Hicks
player, 4 posts
SPC, US Army Aviation
Comedian
Tue 2 Sep 2008
at 10:44
  • msg #736

Re: New Guy

Bob Hope wasn't dead in WWII.
Fusilier
GM, 258 posts
Your Guide
Tue 2 Sep 2008
at 11:02
  • msg #737

Re: New Guy

Ok fellas. I couldn't put up the turn post since RPOL was down last night as you know. It'll be up in a few hours.
Ben Jagelis
player, 251 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 3 Sep 2008
at 01:40
  • msg #738

Re: New Guy

What's the wind direction and strength?
Fusilier
GM, 260 posts
Your Guide
Wed 3 Sep 2008
at 13:46
  • msg #739

BMP-2

Just realized there was a typo in my description. They are BMP-2s (not BMP-1s)... Stone I fixed this in your post too. Hope everyone is still okay with the combat, and its not dragging out.

Wind is SOUTH (very very light)

Welcome to Bighauser who is playing not your standard stock PC.
Tom Handley
player, 90 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Wed 3 Sep 2008
at 13:59
  • msg #740

Re: BMP-2

Fusilier:
None of the 30mm rounds fail to find the Bradley.


So, how much damage does the Bradley take?  :-)
Fusilier
GM, 261 posts
Your Guide
Wed 3 Sep 2008
at 15:41
  • msg #741

Re: BMP-2

Tom Handley:
Fusilier:
None of the 30mm rounds fail to find the Bradley.


So, how much damage does the Bradley take?  :-)


Hehe, I see a double negative there.
Helmut Meyer
player, 156 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Thu 4 Sep 2008
at 16:19
  • msg #742

Re: BMP-2

Jeeze, we're spread out all over the place. I know we started off like that but its a good thing we seem to have the upper hand on things. I think when this battle is done, that be one topic we look at for any after action review. I know its a game and people like to do "their thing" sometimes, but I think we sorta went all uncoordinated. It could mean trouble in a future battle. I suppose this isn't the right time for such discussion, so I'll drop it and apologize if it was premature.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 38 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Thu 4 Sep 2008
at 17:11
  • msg #743

Re: BMP-2

I don't know... PCs tend towards hyper-skilled compared to real-world counterparts and can accomplish more than traditional tactics would imply is reasonable to expect or account for in deployment.  We're laying down effective fire on the primary element and most of us are going to be in a positive position once the reinforcements arrive, able to take good cover against small arms by lying on the bank of the Vistula.

Things should continue to go well as long as the enemy infantry don't employ any RPGs and the Bradley finally hits something... and the mortars don't do anything more, which I think is the biggest risk.  The motorboat was the next biggest threat and its down to one crewman that's about to die.
William Hicks
player, 5 posts
SPC, US Army Aviation
Comedian
Thu 4 Sep 2008
at 17:21
  • msg #744

Re: BMP-2

Oskar Friedmann:
Things should continue to go well as long as the enemy infantry don't employ any RPGs


Just had to jinx it, didn't cha?
Kurt Weiss
player, 131 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Thu 4 Sep 2008
at 17:38
  • msg #745

Re: BMP-2

These arn't set pieces battles.  We arn't remotely a true mechanized unit where everyone knows there particular job.  For one, we don't have the personnel.

Being spread out at the beginning was a potential error, but to try and consolidate onto the element that is getting the brunt of the fire is definintely NOT the right thing to do.  Unengaged and lightly engaged sections have to flank to take the pressure off the main body.  Otherwise, you are just adding more juicy targets for them to dump lead into.

For small, mixed elements, speed of manuever and flexibility are the order of the day.

And, to be honest, if anything, this system tends to underestimate the level of skill these soldiers would have.  Especially the operators, but other specialties, too.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 40 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Thu 4 Sep 2008
at 17:58
  • msg #746

Re: BMP-2

William Hicks:
Oskar Friedmann:
Things should continue to go well as long as the enemy infantry don't employ any RPGs


Just had to jinx it, didn't cha?


Well, shit.  I'm not in the Bradley.  :)
Varis Babicevs
player, 68 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Fri 5 Sep 2008
at 00:00
  • msg #747

Re: BMP-2


GM sir, is the Bradley's 25mm getting the benefit of a scope? I know that it's not a rifle, but the Bradley's complex optics would have the same- if not greater- benefit for the gunner that a scope would have for a sniper.

I'm just trying to give a boost to JJM and St. Gill. The dice have been oh so cruel to them during the last 3 rounds or so.
Helmut Meyer
player, 158 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Fri 5 Sep 2008
at 12:08
  • msg #748

Re: BMP-2

Weiss I know what you are saying, but was thinking more like if we had to withdraw with haste. I don't think we'd all be able to be picked up quickly enough. Say if their were (are) more BMPs. Thats all. Not a big issue I guess.
William Hicks
player, 6 posts
SPC, US Army Aviation
Comedian
Fri 5 Sep 2008
at 12:25
  • msg #749

Re: BMP-2

Jeez, hurry up and survive this firefight already...I don't wanna find you all dead...sheesh...
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 165 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Fri 5 Sep 2008
at 18:27
  • msg #750

Re: BMP-2

Up until now, we've assumed that there is a .50 calibre mg at the Commander's hatch of the Bradley. Is that actually the case? I can't find a single picture or reference to the Bradley carrying such weapons.

We could say we improvised mounts but that's a GM call.
Kurt Weiss
player, 132 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Fri 5 Sep 2008
at 19:55
  • msg #751

Re: BMP-2

That is because unless someone does some very interesting machining and welding, there is no place for a .50 on the turret.  It's not like an M1 MBT.
Kurt Weiss
player, 133 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Fri 5 Sep 2008
at 20:04
  • msg #752

Re: BMP-2

The reason why is because the hatches are not placed in a position where someone could easily get behind the receiver of a .50cal if one was mounted.  You would literally have to build an arm that would extend out from the turret, and that would pretty much have to be fixed to handle the weight, so it would have limited use without traversing the turret.

And keep in mind that it would in fact require a fair amount of pretty high speed after market engineering using parts that were never designed to do what you want to do.

So, no, there shouldn't be a .50cal on the Bradley.  And the only 7.62mm on the Bradley is the coax.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 166 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Fri 5 Sep 2008
at 20:15
  • msg #753

Re: BMP-2

That's what I recently realised, thankyou for clarifying the issue.
Varis Babicevs
player, 70 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Fri 5 Sep 2008
at 23:26
  • msg #754

Re: BMP-2

There's nothing to stop someone from firing their own personal weapon from the commander's hatch. The enemy infantry may assume it's the coax and go to ground.
Kurt Weiss
player, 134 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sat 6 Sep 2008
at 07:55
  • msg #755

Re: BMP-2

The commander better be taking advantage of the additional sight and fire controls inside.  If there are rounds flying and any of the crew is sticking their heads out, they are wrong.
Ben Jagelis
player, 253 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 6 Sep 2008
at 08:56
  • msg #756

Re: BMP-2

Personally I think there's a damn good reason why the commander doesn't have a weapon at their hatch (besides the technical and design issues).
I believe it's their role to direct the vehicle crew, communicate with other units and spot enemy threats (and guide the gunner to them).
The more jobs a commander has to do, the less effective they are.
Kurt Weiss
player, 135 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sat 6 Sep 2008
at 09:02
  • msg #757

Re: BMP-2

I remember how hard it was to be the commander of an M113.  I was shooting, reading a map, talking on the radio, talking to my driver, keeping track of my wing man and unit, and looking for new enemies all at the same time.

It was a significant task.  The only thing a commander of a Bradley doesn't have to do out of all that is shoot.
Ben Jagelis
player, 254 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 6 Sep 2008
at 09:35
  • msg #758

Re: BMP-2

From the US Army FM 3-21.71 - MECHANIZED INFANTRY PLATOON AND SQUAD (BRADLEY)

1-8.   RESPONSIBILITIES

e.   Bradley Commander.   The platoon leader, platoon sergeant, and the two section leaders serve as the Bradley commander for their BFVs. In the platoon leader's absence (when dismounted), his gunner assumes the responsibilities of the BC. The BC, who remains mounted,—
Acquires targets.
Commands the vehicle relative to the section and platoon.
Controls vehicle fires.
Ensures the welfare of the crew.
Holds the vehicle's position in platoon formations.
Issues fire commands.
Lays the gun for deflection.
Maintains the BFV hull and turret.
Maintains the BFV weapon systems.
Monitors his CTD for vehicle position, digital overlays, and digital reports (in FBCB2-equipped units).
Navigates correctly.
Sends SITREPs as requested or when the vehicle makes contact
Trains soldiers to use weapons.

f.   Bradley Gunner.   The gunner observes the battlefield to detect enemy targets. He operates the turret weapons as directed by the BC to engage and destroy targets. When only two men remain in the BFV, which occurs rarely, he serves as BC. He bears the responsibility for performing unit-level maintenance on the turret and its weapons systems. He also helps with navigation and with radio operation.

g.   Bradley Driver.   The driver operates the vehicle under the BC's control. The driver follows terrain-driving procedures and tries to select hull-down positions. He also helps detect targets and observe rounds fired. He helps with navigation by monitoring odometer readings and observing terrain. He bears the main responsibility for maintaining the vehicle's automotive (hull) systems.

There's a fair bit more well worth reading at http://www.globalsecurity.org/...3-21-71/ch1.htm#par8
Fusilier
GM, 264 posts
Your Guide
Sat 6 Sep 2008
at 14:05
  • msg #759

Re: BMP-2

Turn is up. Another reminder to ensure you keep up with your ammo expenditures. For Marc and Kelly, I do the heavy weapons so don't worry about the 25mm or .50 cal.

Map coming in a little bit.
Fusilier
GM, 265 posts
Your Guide
Sun 7 Sep 2008
at 04:34
  • msg #760

Re: BMP-2

Stone:
Fusilier, what is their approximate range from the infantry to the bradley?


About 50m. All in a line perpendicular to the Bradley. Three to the north of the mobile BMP and six south of it.
Tom Handley
player, 93 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Sun 7 Sep 2008
at 14:41
  • msg #761

Re: BMP-2

Ben Jagelis:
"Molar, this is Found. Move up to my position for assault. All other callsigns to move to support Ironside One."
With the lack of fire from the treeline, the three of them should be more than enough to clear out any survivors stupid enough to stay, especially after what they were about to receive....

Meanwhile, the much more serious threat lay to the west where the Bradley was in danger of being assaulted by infantry. A few men on the ground of their own would be a very useful thing, especially if the enemy perceived their movement as a prelude to assaulting through the mechanised infantry and carrying on to attack the mortar baseplates. Just the threat alone might be enough to cause the mortarmen to cease firing and prepare to move.

Unfortunately, neither Handley nor Varis -- the closest ones to the Bradley -- has a radio.  Someone had better use hand signals and/or holler at them before they start running for the woods.
Ben Jagelis
player, 256 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 8 Sep 2008
at 00:23
  • msg #762

Re: BMP-2

Yeah, I'd thought of that.
I'm assuming that once others get within shouting range, Handley and Varis will learn what's going on. In the meantime, it doesn't matter all that much if they continue south towards the trees - Ben won't complain too loudly since the character likely forgot they aren't on the radio net (and might be glad of the help if the enemy aren't as shaken up and wounded/killed as he thinks).
Fusilier
GM, 267 posts
Your Guide
Mon 8 Sep 2008
at 16:21
  • msg #763

Mini Maps

Here is a little map to help illustrate the final targets. This represents visible targets (alive and dead). There are more dead but they are concealed in the treeline. Ranges? Close... just put it that way. The smoke grenade is immediately to the north of the E.MG and will be obscured in the next turn. Only one of the OK riflemen has fired this turn. Hope this helps, and everyone is still cool with the battle... if you aren't... well its no surprise that it'll be over soon.
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:23, Wed 10 Sept 2008.
Helmut Meyer
player, 160 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Mon 8 Sep 2008
at 16:29
  • msg #764

Re: Mini Maps

Don't rush it. I know Bighauser is waiting, and its been a long battle for us - but we're nearly done. We (Meyer/Ben) are in yelling range to Kurt now yes?
Ben Jagelis
player, 257 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 9 Sep 2008
at 01:22
  • msg #765

Re: Mini Maps

Since Weiss has a tac radio, I don't think it matters all that much....   :D

The graphic is great. Been rather unsure of the treeline dispositions until now.
Kurt Weiss
player, 137 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Tue 9 Sep 2008
at 03:57
  • msg #766

Re: Mini Maps

I bet the trailer on the Bradley is toast, now.  Not that I blame you for your choice in maneuvers.
Ben Jagelis
player, 259 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 9 Sep 2008
at 04:20
  • msg #767

Re: Mini Maps

I was going to suggest about a week or more back not to worry about the tanker. It's empty now and unlikely to ever be filled again. Better it get trashed than the M2.

Of course there's always the remote chance Stone's managed to reverse it properly....




Yeah, right......
Stone
player, 119 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Tue 9 Sep 2008
at 08:34
  • msg #768

Re: Mini Maps

doh!  I forgot about the trailer.  I also didnt realise the infantry had closed to within that close to us ... the diagram here in the OOC thread scared the hell out of me when i seen those red dots homing in on me ...

its like somehting out of alien, seeing all the dots closing in ...
Ben Jagelis
player, 260 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 9 Sep 2008
at 10:38
  • msg #769

Re: Mini Maps

Of course you realise you have another option....

You're in a big heavy armoured vehicle massing over 28 tonnes.

They're wearing not much more than clothing and maybe a tin hat and weigh around 1/10 of a tonne each.

Guess what happens when the two meet on a "personal" level.....   ;)
Tom Handley
player, 95 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Tue 9 Sep 2008
at 13:18
  • msg #770

Re: Mini Maps

IIRC, the tanker is not totally empty, unless it got emptied while we were waiting for the boat.  Still, a 28-ton tracked vehicle backing over a nearly-empty tank of alcohol should create a nice little antipersonnel burst of flame.  I just hope there are fire extinguishers aboard.  :-)
This message was last edited by the player at 13:20, Tue 09 Sept 2008.
William Hicks
player, 7 posts
SPC, US Army Aviation
Comedian
Tue 9 Sep 2008
at 13:30
  • msg #771

Re: Mini Maps

Man...Creswick died under quite unglamorous auspices...hope I don't have the same sort of luck.

-Bill Hicks
Ben Jagelis
player, 261 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 9 Sep 2008
at 13:42
  • msg #772

Re: Mini Maps

In reply to Tom Handley (msg #770):

See SOP #5
Marc St.Gil
player, 129 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Tue 9 Sep 2008
at 23:46
  • msg #773

Re: Mini Maps

Looks like our medic has started channeling the ghose of John Wayne.   :)
Ben Jagelis
player, 262 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 10 Sep 2008
at 05:34
  • msg #774

Re: Mini Maps

A couple of things I found of interest.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/...my/fm/17-15/chp3.htm
...machine gun fire from the support force or wingman tanks can provide close-in protection against dismounted enemy elements. If tanks are unbuttoned, the TCs and loaders use personal weapons, hand grenades, and machine guns to provide close-in protection.

http://www.lancers.org.au/site/Sattleberg.asp
Major Hordern who was, as usual, in the "hottest" spot, then moved under fire to an abandoned bunker between the tanks and the supporting infantry and took over the directing of the tank's fire by walkie talkie; he also directed the tank to manoeuvre to crush a troublesome bunker which it could not engage with fire.

http://www.5rar.asn.au/ops/final_battle.htm
They then combined with 8 Platoon in the assault, with each tank blasting ahead with canister rounds from its main armament and, upon reaching each bunker, driving over it and swivelling its tracks to collapse it under the tank's 50-ton weight.


So, as can be seen, guns alone aren't the only weapons an armoured vehicle has at their disposal.
Something else to keep in mind is the psychological effect of an armoured monster bearing down on infantry. This is handled in the rules by forcing the infantry to make a "panic check". If they fail, they RUN!
This message was last edited by the player at 11:15, Wed 10 Sept 2008.
Fusilier
GM, 269 posts
Your Guide
Wed 10 Sep 2008
at 15:24
  • msg #775

Re: Mini Maps



Helmut Meyer:
We (Meyer/Ben) are in yelling range to Kurt now yes?


Yup.
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:05, Wed 10 Sept 2008.
Tom Handley
player, 96 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Wed 10 Sep 2008
at 17:45
  • msg #776

Re: Mini Maps

Oskar, the trailer with the still is hitched to the M113.  The Bradley was towing a tank trailer.
Kurt Weiss
player, 139 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Wed 10 Sep 2008
at 18:10
  • msg #777

Re: Mini Maps

I'll tell you right now.  That soldier on board the Bradley is now deaf.  He may not be permanently deaf, but he won't hear crap for a few hours.
Kurt Weiss
player, 141 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Thu 11 Sep 2008
at 17:33
  • msg #778

Re: Mini Maps

And as far as shooting an M203 40mm in the direction of the Bradley.  I think the worst they would have to fear is if you got a hit on the track or a sensitive component.

There is no real chance of hurting the crew or the main body of the vehicle with that shot.
Tom Handley
player, 98 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Thu 11 Sep 2008
at 17:46
  • msg #779

Re: Mini Maps

With my luck, I'd drop it straight down the commander's hatch.  :'(
William Hicks
player, 8 posts
SPC, US Army Aviation
Comedian
Thu 11 Sep 2008
at 17:50
  • msg #780

Re: Mini Maps

Kurt Weiss:
And as far as shooting an M203 40mm in the direction of the Bradley.  I think the worst they would have to fear is if you got a hit on the track or a sensitive component.

There is no real chance of hurting the crew or the main body of the vehicle with that shot.


Regardless, it just isn't smart to fire at your own folks.  It isn't like T34's in WWII, where comrades would just "scratch each others' backs" by firing the coax or hull mount at the neighboring tanks to get the enemy personnel off of them.  This is a Brad we are talking about too...it just wouldn't be smart, what with the components on board, and panic it may cause on board.(I don't about you...but I, me in real life, have been around grenade explosions, and they are NOT mild, or absent of a large concussion by any means).
Kurt Weiss
player, 142 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Thu 11 Sep 2008
at 17:58
  • msg #781

Re: Mini Maps

I too have been around real life frag grenade explosions, and they are significant, but a 40mm is not as powerful as the hand thrown variety.  You would have to get a direct hit on the vehicle itself to get any kind of effect.  I would sit inside a Bradley all day and let people drop grenades outside of it.

And I would definitely take that over whatever this guy has planned.  We can only hope he doesn't have an AT Mine on him.

But I also think that the fire of the main gun is doing plenty of damage to the guy.  Just being around that thing when its going off is jacking him up.
Ben Jagelis
player, 264 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 12 Sep 2008
at 00:38
  • msg #782

Re: Mini Maps

William Hicks:
Regardless, it just isn't smart to fire at your own folks.  It isn't like T34's in WWII, where comrades would just "scratch each others' backs" by firing the coax or hull mount at the neighboring tanks to get the enemy personnel off of them.

See post #774 above, specifically the first section.
That is taken directly from one of the current US Army tank Field Manuals.

Note also that armoured vehicles, particularly heavier vehicles like the M2 and up, are built to withstand small arms and fragmentation hits. Only a direct hit from a HEDP round is likely to bother it much (although I wouldn't like to test it myself).

I've been around explosions myself in my military career (trained as an assault pioneer aka infantry combat engineer). Hand grenades, while relatively powerful infantry weapons, aren't anything near as spectacular IRL as they are in the movies/on TV. For example, the first grenade I ever threw was a complete anticlimax! Sure there was a thundering roar and the earth shook, but a few moments later when observing the impact area, there wasn't a leaf of grass out of place and as for the legendary ball of flame and smoke, well, it remains nothing more than legend...

I've also had a slab of explosives go off just a few metres away from me. Besides being deafened for a while, I barely had a scratch, and I was completely unarmoured (no helmet, jacket, etc).

Mind you DO NOT TRY IT AT HOME! I just got lucky. Explosives, when used by those who don't know EXACTLY what they're doing with them, and aren't INTIMATELY familiar with their properties and capabilities, can easily kill and maim.
William Hicks
player, 9 posts
SPC, US Army Aviation
Comedian
Fri 12 Sep 2008
at 00:47
  • msg #783

Re: Mini Maps

Right, but you have equipment on the Bradley, not to mention a trailer of fuel on the back.  I am not saying that it would do any integral damage to the Brad itself, what I am saying is the explosion of the Blooper could panic those inside into thinking an AT mine went off, hit the tank of gas, hit a piece of equipment on the exterior, etc.

I would sit in a Brad all day, and not give any mind to getting hit with a 40mm grenade either, but I would still worry about my equipment like the TOWs tacked onto it.
Ben Jagelis
player, 265 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 12 Sep 2008
at 02:22
  • msg #784

Re: Mini Maps

William Hicks:
Right, but you have equipment on the Bradley, not to mention a trailer of fuel on the back.  I am not saying that it would do any integral damage to the Brad itself, what I am saying is the explosion of the Blooper could panic those inside into thinking an AT mine went off, hit the tank of gas, hit a piece of equipment on the exterior, etc.

So that would be the fuel trailer that's just been smashed flat by 28 tonnes or so of M2?

I don't see anything on the exterior of the M2 that would be greatly effected by shrapnel, or at least nothing we can't afford to have damaged. Chance of anything vaguely important being hit, like radio masts, are so remote as to be virtually insignificant.

link to a message in this game
Exterior Cargo & Capacity: 3000 kg (with limitations)

Excavating Tools
Tracked Vehicle Tools
4 Man Tent
Spare Length of Track
20L Jerry Cans (empty I think)
Large Camouflage Netting
Barbed Wire / Concertina (100m)
Barbed Wire / Straight (15m)
William Hicks
player, 10 posts
SPC, US Army Aviation
Comedian
Fri 12 Sep 2008
at 02:38
  • msg #785

Re: Mini Maps

Well...okay then...do what you will to your own vehicle, I suppose.


One last gasp of argument...your optics may go bye bye.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:00, Fri 12 Sept 2008.
Varis Babicevs
player, 74 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Fri 12 Sep 2008
at 02:55
  • msg #786

Re: Mini Maps


I'm not too concerned but would a 40mm HE detonating on the engine deck cause any problems? Perhaps modern IFVs like the Bradley are protected against hits of that nature but I'm sure I've read of tanks and APCs being disabled by grenades or Molotovs dropped on top of the engine compartment.

I say keep sprayin' it with rifle rounds. Soviet tank riders in WWII were incredibly vulnerable to German MG fire. Even a miss stands a chance of ricochetting off of the Bradley's armor and winging the clinger.
Ben Jagelis
player, 266 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 12 Sep 2008
at 03:12
  • msg #787

Re: Mini Maps

Of course there are always other options such as flamer throwers :D

Or, nuke them from orbit, just to be sure.....   :P

Something else to keep in mind that in recent years, more and more armoured vehicles have been fitted with ERA - Explosive Reactive Armour. Some have even been fitted (so I hear) with claymore like devices just for situations like this to deal with pesky infantry who get too close (actual claymores were too powerful I understand).

Quote:http://mdb.cast.ru/mdb/1-2005/ac/us_armor/
It is worth recalling the range of measures proposed by American specialists to enhance the survivability of the Abrams tank under urban conditions: extra smoke grenade launchers along the perimeter of the turret that provide cover from all aspects; extra gun-slaved mount for 7.62 or 12.7 mm calibre machine guns or a 40 mm grenade launcher (CSAMM); improved protection side skirts and engine deck roof; slat armor for the stern; the PDCue computer system of directing to the sound of fire; commander-activated claymore mines on the side skirts for battle against infantry in blind spots....

It's a tank, but the principle is sound in my opinion.
William Hicks
player, 11 posts
SPC, US Army Aviation
Comedian
Fri 12 Sep 2008
at 03:30
  • msg #788

Re: Mini Maps

Well if the Bradley has reactive armor...I would say steer clear of shooting a 203 round at it, especially if you have three friendlies nearby on the ground.
Ben Jagelis
player, 267 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 12 Sep 2008
at 04:00
  • msg #789

Re: Mini Maps

I don't think ours has ERA, but it might have the attachment lugs. In my opinion, it's a bit late in the war for ERA to be available although it's possible a few lucky vehicles might have a few blocks. I believe it's relatively uncommon even today in 2008 for vehicles not in dangerous areas and that's after several years of production by an un-nuked USA.

At the beginning of the Twilight War in 1996, I understand ERA was still fairly experimental. A few score units might have made their way to the front lines, but once production facilities were destroyed in late 1997, the supply of replacment blocks would have dried up almost completely.

Makeshift spaced armour, RPG mess, etc would be another matter with units in the field modifying their vehicles almost as soon as they received them with these proven, low tech, protective devices. Just look at what happened in the early months of the current US involvement in Iraq for examples.
Matt Doyle
player, 31 posts
2nd Lieutenant
Special Forces (US)
Fri 12 Sep 2008
at 17:10
  • msg #790

Re: Mini Maps

All the explosives I've experienced 'first hand' , as it were, were in an open field. I'd imagine spending a day inside an IFV or a tank listening to a 40mm rain would be nerve wracking and cause permenent hearing damage after awhile. As for grenades against armour, I seem to recall placing a smoke grenade at the air pick up from a T72 would cause the fire supression system to kick off and 'deman' the vehicle.
Kurt Weiss
player, 143 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Fri 12 Sep 2008
at 17:22
  • msg #791

Re: Mini Maps

I think as long as the explosives were not actually touching the vehicle as they went off, you would probably be okay.  As explosives go, the 40mm is a plinking round.

And yes, Halon is a Mother F'er.  And this is not a T72.
Matt Doyle
player, 32 posts
2nd Lieutenant
Special Forces (US)
Fri 12 Sep 2008
at 17:37
  • msg #792

Re: Mini Maps

The problem, as I recall, with the 40mm is that its as hard to land something close to a target as to hit it.
Fusilier
GM, 270 posts
Your Guide
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 03:21
  • msg #793

Re: Mini Maps

Post is late. I fell asleep last night before I could put up the turn resolution. Doing it now.
Ben Jagelis
player, 268 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 04:49
  • msg #794

Re: Mini Maps

I actually found the M79 was a exceptionally accurate weapon, even out to max range. The M203 on the other hand tended to land rounds all over the place (but still in the general area).
At 300 metres it wa childs play to consistantly drop a 40mm through a car window with the M79, but with the 203 I was usually lucky just to hit the vehicle!

Could have been due to atmospheric conditions on the day (ie wind) or perhaps the 203 wasn't in prime condition - who knows....
Matt Doyle
player, 33 posts
2nd Lieutenant
Special Forces (US)
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 05:06
  • msg #795

Re: Mini Maps

Never got to play with an M79 but I found that the M203 was pretty much as you described it. Fun to shoot but hard to use with precision. We only used the practice rounds with orange paint though, maybe the hard stuff is more consistent.
Ben Jagelis
player, 270 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 05:24
  • msg #796

Re: Mini Maps

HEDP wasn't any different in my experience. Made a nice bang instead of a cloud of coloured dust, paint, or whatever they're filled with, but accuracy was the same.

The heaviest weapon I've fired myself (both prac and live rounds) is the 84mm Carl Gustav. That damn weapon is soooooo loud the corregations in the sand of the firing range would be shifted with every shot - even three hundred metres away at the range sentry position!

And since heavy weapons were invariably fired on the second day at the range, and a few of us select individuals had been up all night drinking with the senior NCO's of the Battalion, the hangovers didn't help accuracy very much....

Hard to aim when every shot sends pain shooting through abused brain cells!   :P
Matt Doyle
player, 35 posts
2nd Lieutenant
Special Forces (US)
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 05:38
  • msg #797

Re: Mini Maps

Ha:) I remember similar times drinking with folks who knew what was happening next. That usually consisted of an early morning with a nice 5 mile run before breakfast. Sadistic bastards!
Ben Jagelis
player, 271 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 05:56
  • msg #798

Re: Mini Maps

Oh we knew alright! And we usually had a 5km run first up too!
I can clearly remember running along the dry and dusty track in the heat of summer looking at the pools of stagnate water in the gutters and being very tempted by them.

Worst part of it was the SNCOs who after only about an hours sleep looked fresh as daisies! Probably because 20+ years of Army service had pickled their bodies....   :S
Matt Doyle
player, 36 posts
2nd Lieutenant
Special Forces (US)
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 06:01
  • msg #799

Re: Mini Maps

The ones that annoyed me the most were the guys over 40 with the beer gut who could put you in the grave running! I always wnted to wipe the smug smile off one of thier faces but I could never find enough breath to catch up.
William Hicks
player, 12 posts
SPC, US Army Aviation
Comedian
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 06:09
  • msg #800

Re: Mini Maps

Nothing quite like going off to Chatan Town here, getting totally plastered, and going to 1st Call/PT Formation in less than 5 hours....woooo!
Ben Jagelis
player, 272 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 06:14
  • msg #801

Re: Mini Maps

5 hours!?
We were lucky to get one hour and usually saw first light just as we were drifting off to sleep!
5km in 30+ degree C heat before 8am, then off to the heavy weapons range to fire off M72s, 84mm Carl Gustav and 40mm grenades.

I think we probably emptied the local pharmacies of all their painkillers on those days.
Helmut Meyer
player, 164 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 10:45
  • msg #802

Re: Mini Maps

I agree with Stone. We should make a quick grab but prioritize it to maximize time. We don't need to pickup every magazine or bayonet... but maybe some of the weapons and the fuel in the BMPs. Staying longer is not a good idea since they have our location.

Also, these guys are Russian, not Polish. So that means inter-unit coordination on coming after us. We made enough trouble to get them working together.
Fusilier
GM, 272 posts
Your Guide
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 11:02
  • msg #803

Re: Mini Maps

The Bradley doesn't have ERA. I'll get the support weapon's ammo and fuel listings up to date soon.
This message was last edited by the GM at 11:04, Sat 13 Sept 2008.
Marc St.Gil
player, 131 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 13:30
  • msg #804

Re: Mini Maps

I am agreed on the quick grab. Crew weapons, rations, intell - thats the priority in my opinion.

So, what do we think, go after the morters? I hate to leave something like that to catch up to us. I don't know what kind of time frame we are looking at, but I would like to at least know if they are in a position to follow us or resume shooting, especially if we go ahead and cross the river here.
Ben Jagelis
player, 273 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 13:40
  • msg #805

Re: Mini Maps

The mortars need to be dealt with in my opinion. Crossing the river is going to take a significant chunk of time in which we will effectively be at the mercy of anyone with a slingshot.
If the mortars are left on the loose, what's to say they won't set up a couple of kilometres away while somebody spots from cover for them. Sure it'd take some time for their FO to locate us and get into position, but why take the risk if we can deal with them now?
Ben Jagelis
player, 274 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 14:10
  • msg #806

Re: Mini Maps

Tom P. Kelly:
"Jordan, drop the ramp!"

Not a very bright idea that...
The trailer is still on the back. Better to simply use the door in the ramp or climb over the front as most crew seem to do in my experience.
William Hicks
player, 13 posts
SPC, US Army Aviation
Comedian
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 14:17
  • msg #807

Re: Mini Maps

Ben Jagelis:
Tom P. Kelly:
"Jordan, drop the ramp!"

Not a very bright idea that...
The trailer is still on the back. Better to simply use the door in the ramp or climb over the front as most crew seem to do in my experience.



I think the GM has it to where the trailer has been sheared off already...could be wrong though.
Ben Jagelis
player, 275 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 14:22
  • msg #808

Re: Mini Maps

Wrong vehicle.
The M2 has lost the tanker trailer but the M113 has a large flatbed loaded with our fuel still - we definately need to keep that in one peice.
Fusilier
GM, 273 posts
Your Guide
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 14:39
  • msg #809

Re: Mini Maps

Ben is correct. Access to M113 is by rear door only, not the ramp. The fuel tank trailer on the Bradley has been lost.
Helmut Meyer
player, 165 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 14:41
  • msg #810

Re: Mini Maps

We have no idea where they are now though. Last time we heard them they were west. They haven't fired in a while probably to relocate.
Tom P. Kelly
player, 62 posts
Spec4
Medic (US)
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 21:16
  • msg #811

Re: Mini Maps

D'oh! Forgot about that pesky trailer. Rear hatch it is then.
Varis Babicevs
player, 75 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 22:06
  • msg #812

Re: Mini Maps

Helmut Meyer:
We have no idea where they are now though. Last time we heard them they were west. They haven't fired in a while probably to relocate.


True. Or perhaps they're out of ammo or just being stingy with it.

I think that they were 120mm, correct? If so, it'd probably take a little longer to move them.

Going after them could either be a really good investment of time or a complete wild goose chase.
Kurt Weiss
player, 145 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 22:15
  • msg #813

Re: Mini Maps

Not to be a stick in the mud, but all we know is that they came from a generally westerly direction.  Without a Q36 or some similar device, we would be hard pressed to find them.  And I know for a fact that an 81mm can be broken down and be on the move in less than a minute.

Sure we got some high speed thermal optics and such, but you would have to be looking in the right place at the right time to catch them.
Tom Handley
player, 100 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Sat 13 Sep 2008
at 22:45
  • msg #814

Supplies

Question:  are the 72 40mm HEDP grenades listed as being onboard the M113 compatible with the M-203, or are they the caseless variety for the BG-15?  If they are compatible, Handley will be taking a few, since he used his last (and only) 2 HE in this battle.

BTW, does anybody have any spare frag hand grenades?  He used up his in the battle for the bunker.
Ben Jagelis
player, 276 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sun 14 Sep 2008
at 07:10
  • msg #815

Re: Supplies

Yes, they are Nato 40mm rounds.
And yes, Ben has a couple of spare M67 "baseball" frags in his pack.

As for the mortars, I'd rather try locating them than not. Should only need the one vehicle to race about within a couple of kilometres to the west - at the very least we might find where they set up and ascertain how many troops where operating them and what their transportation is.

Might be an idea to interrogate prisoners also to find out how the southern group where travelling.

Meanwhile, the BMPs could be stripped of fuel, ammo and anything else useful and the battlefield cleared of weapons, ammo and supplies (like food).

I know all the above takes time, but an hour spent searching now could save a LOT of grief later - especially if we get lucky and find somebody has a map of current pact locations on them!   :D
Ben Jagelis
player, 278 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 15 Sep 2008
at 12:09
  • msg #816

Re: Supplies

It's a bit of a rambling IC post, but I hope everyone gets the idea....

As I was writing it, I was thinking how useful a BMP could be. As a Pact vehicle, it would open up a whole range of sneaky options for us, but as a third tracked vehicle, the fuel consumption would really HURT!

If one does run, we could use it as disposable fire support while crossing the river (I rather doubt there's actually US troops of any type in irradiated Gdansk so don't think we should go that way). As previously said, preparing for the river crossing is likely to take time and I think involved the erection of a screen around the Bradley. This screen is probably going to disarm the M2 while it's up (we don't want to shoot holes in it after all), which will only leave manportable weapons and the .50 cal available.

We should also only have one vehicle in the water at a time, just in case there is trouble.
Fusilier
GM, 275 posts
Your Guide
Mon 15 Sep 2008
at 13:01
  • msg #817

Re: Supplies

Turn post up in 2 hours. I was letting it go to see if you wanted to discuss the mortar search but its okay now.
Helmut Meyer
player, 167 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Mon 15 Sep 2008
at 16:35
  • msg #818

Re: Supplies

Ben Jagelis:
As I was writing it, I was thinking how useful a BMP could be.


Can you put it in neutral and tow it? More passenger space and even if the engine is cooked its got another autocannon/coax. Portable pillbox.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:35, Mon 15 Sept 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 279 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 16 Sep 2008
at 02:13
  • msg #819

Re: Supplies

Now there's a thought!

Might be a bit of a strain on the poor M2's engine, but worth investigating I think.
Varis Babicevs
player, 78 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Tue 16 Sep 2008
at 02:34
  • msg #820

Re: Supplies

Helmut Meyer:
Can you put it in neutral and tow it? More passenger space and even if the engine is cooked its got another autocannon/coax. Portable pillbox.


An interesting idea. It's gonna mess with the Bradley's fuel efficiency, though.
Ben Jagelis
player, 280 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 16 Sep 2008
at 05:01
  • msg #821

Re: Supplies

It's only got to manage about 6-7 km til we reach the ferry crossing to the north.
And don't forget one of them might still be a runner.

"It's a quali'y mot'r. Sure it's got a few miles on the clock, the paintwork could do with touchin' up and the seats springs have collapsed are of the extra soft type, but wha' a bargin, ay?"

"'undred quid an' she's yours. Wha'd ya say?"
This message was last edited by the player at 05:03, Tue 16 Sept 2008.
Kurt Weiss
player, 147 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Tue 16 Sep 2008
at 05:20
  • msg #822

Re: Supplies

Unless we have a tow bar, which is not necessarily standard equipment, I don't think we are towing a BMP today.

When you are talking about the kind of weight we are talking about, your everyday tow hitch ain't gonna cut it.

As far as the body searches are concerned, a standard search strips the body of everything but the uniform.  All gear - to include weapons, body armor and webbing - are stripped, and pockets are blown (read torn) open.  The bodies are left with uniforms thoroughly disheveled and bodies lying in a standard pattern (on their faces with legs crossed and arms above their heads partially bound by their uniform blouses pulled above their heads)
William Hicks
player, 14 posts
SPC, US Army Aviation
Comedian
Tue 16 Sep 2008
at 08:44
  • msg #823

Re: Supplies

Kurt Weiss:
Unless we have a tow bar, which is not necessarily standard equipment, I don't think we are towing a BMP today.

When you are talking about the kind of weight we are talking about, your everyday tow hitch ain't gonna cut it.

As far as the body searches are concerned, a standard search strips the body of everything but the uniform.  All gear - to include weapons, body armor and webbing - are stripped, and pockets are blown (read torn) open.  The bodies are left with uniforms thoroughly disheveled and bodies lying in a standard pattern (on their faces with legs crossed and arms above their heads partially bound by their uniform blouses pulled above their heads)



Don't forget your security man, to get the weapon away from the body, to do the groin drop, the flip up to check for a grenade, and then once all that is done, to start at either the head or the feet, and work your way from there.  Doing this incorrectly could possibly spell disaster.

But what do I know?  I am a damn chopper mechanic.
Kurt Weiss
player, 148 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Tue 16 Sep 2008
at 10:59
  • msg #824

Re: Supplies

I was assuming proper security/booby check is going on.  And we were always taught to start from the head and work your way down.  A knee to the groin and/or an eye flick are good ways to find if someone is faking.

More importantly, I was trying to point out what we would actually be pulling off these guys.

I may have presumed too much, though.  I will try to be more specific in the future.
Fusilier
GM, 277 posts
Your Guide
Tue 16 Sep 2008
at 11:17
  • msg #825

Re: Supplies

Kurt Weiss:
I was trying to point out what we would actually be pulling off these guys.


Pulling off or taking? I'm not sure the detail of salvaging you all are looking at. I know Meyer posted taking just weapons, grenades and med supplies... but I'll have to guess otherwise. It'd be good to judge the time too if you all let me know what kind of stripping you are up to.

If there isn't much enthusiasm for the looting, I'll just summarize it and we can move on.
Ben Jagelis
player, 282 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 16 Sep 2008
at 11:46
  • msg #826

Re: Supplies

It's a simple matter to strip the bodies, throw everything into a pile and come by with the M113 later and pick it up. I don't thinkthere's any great need to carry anything very far at this point (a few dozen metres to a colletion point or two should suffice).

There definately needs to be a concerted effort made to save the wounded Russian. This is for two reasons:

1. He could provide valuable intel
2. and probably just as importantly, it shows we're not animals
Kurt Weiss
player, 149 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Tue 16 Sep 2008
at 11:48
  • msg #827

Re: Supplies

The search I am talking about is quite thorough and takes about 30 seconds to 1 minute per body, depending on what they are wearing and the skill of the searcher.  And like I said before, pretty much the only thing you'll miss is something that might be hidden in a body cavity (read as rectum).

If Weiss sees anyone half-assing it, he'll correct them and give an example of what he wants.

There is too much opportunity for intel to pass this up unless JJ says we need to bug out like 10 minutes ago.  Weiss wants to do a good job checking the bodies to see if he can find something verifying NATO presence at Gdansk.
Ben Jagelis
player, 283 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 16 Sep 2008
at 11:53
  • msg #828

Re: Supplies

I concur with the above assessment. Skilled searchers don't muck about. Dead bodies don't fight back. You also don't have to take any great care (and time) not to hurt a dead body.
If we're really worried about time, there's nothing wrong with simply tearing the clothes from the bodies and taking the whole lot with us - sort through pockets later.
Fusilier
GM, 278 posts
Your Guide
Tue 16 Sep 2008
at 12:12
  • msg #829

Re: Supplies

I'm not sure if there was confusion place by me, but I'll clarify. The issue wasn't about the method you were going about searching. I was looking for an idea of what you intended to take from the search (or sift through). That's the part that will take time.

Kurt says he'll go through things in its entirety - which is what I was looking for.
Ben Jagelis
player, 284 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 17 Sep 2008
at 04:29
  • msg #830

Re: Supplies

Varis Babicevs:
He'll go in the rear...

Varis chuckles to himself.

Would you prefer the back door for yourself then?    ;)
Varis Babicevs
player, 81 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Thu 18 Sep 2008
at 02:13
  • msg #831

Re: Supplies

In reply to Ben Jagelis (msg #830):

I cannot be held accountable for anything that Varis does or says.

; )
Ben Jagelis
player, 286 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Thu 18 Sep 2008
at 12:18
  • msg #832

Re: Supplies

What I'd give for some tear gas about now.....
Fusilier
GM, 281 posts
Your Guide
Thu 18 Sep 2008
at 13:08
  • msg #833

Re: Supplies

KC, its not the best picture, but this is whats required for rigging the Bradley for water crossings. I'm not experienced with the Bradley, but it looks like it would interfere with the guns and thermal sighting unit. Anyone know for sure?


Ben Jagelis
player, 287 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Thu 18 Sep 2008
at 14:18
  • msg #834

Re: Supplies

I read a couple of months back that the screen does interfere with the weapons while erected. I suppose you could still fire, but the sighting systems are also blocked and you'd be tearing great holes in your floatation screen.

This screen can be collapsed in a few moments though once back on dry land I believe.

The M113 on the other hand doesn't require a screen - just the deployment of a bow panel (can't remember the proper name), which takes all of about 20 seconds. I've seen M113's driving about the place with this board in position and a bunch of packs between it and the main hull.

I understand the only other things required are to switch on the bildge pump and check the hull for holes.

Stone:
(wether that means a snorkel, closing hatches etc i dont know but Stone will make the vehicles right)

Hatches should all remain open during a water crossing just in case the vehicle is swamped and the occupants need to make a rapid exit.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:19, Thu 18 Sept 2008.
Tom Handley
player, 104 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Thu 18 Sep 2008
at 18:20
  • msg #835

Re: Supplies

Fusilier:
Approaching from the west towards the carrier is Doyle.

How did Doyle get past the IFVs?  Or have you gotten east and west mixed up again?
Tom Handley
player, 105 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Thu 18 Sep 2008
at 21:03
  • msg #836

Re: Supplies

BTW, the translator site I use renders the BMP crewman's words as, " I come outside of. " and " Do not remove... Do not remove... Do not remove."  That last bit does not sound quite right, unless something else is going on.  Of course, since Handley does not speak Russian, he has no idea what the crewman is saying, anyway.
Matt Doyle
player, 40 posts
2nd Lieutenant
Special Forces (US)
Thu 18 Sep 2008
at 22:43
  • msg #837

Re: Supplies

Tom Handley:
How did Doyle get past the IFVs?  Or have you gotten east and west mixed up again?


Strange are the ways of the SF and not to be trifled with.
Ben Jagelis
player, 289 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Thu 18 Sep 2008
at 23:27
  • msg #838

Re: Supplies

Must be 15 years or so since I last searched somebody. Amazing how the technique comes back to you though even after all that time...
Fusilier
GM, 283 posts
Your Guide
Thu 18 Sep 2008
at 23:57
  • msg #839

Re: Supplies

Matt Doyle:
Strange are the ways of the SF and not to be trifled with.


Exactly.

Tom Handley:
BTW, the translator site I use renders the BMP crewman's words as, " I come outside of. " and " Do not remove... Do not remove... Do not remove."  That last bit does not sound quite right, unless something else is going on.  Of course, since Handley does not speak Russian, he has no idea what the crewman is saying, anyway.


If someone in earshot can speak the language I add a private line to them with a translation (based on their skill). Otherwise, you don't know.
Arthur Fox
player, 78 posts
Sergeant
British Army
Fri 19 Sep 2008
at 07:09
  • msg #840

Re: Supplies

Over the weekend (starting a few hours from now) I'll be away on a family weekend. I doubt there will be any internet available where we are going so I'll probably be ofline untill Sunday evening (GMT).

You can NPC my character if nessecary to keep things moving along.
Fusilier
GM, 284 posts
Your Guide
Fri 19 Sep 2008
at 10:48
  • msg #841

Re: Supplies

OK, no problem. Thanks for letting us know.
Helmut Meyer
player, 171 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Fri 19 Sep 2008
at 11:51
  • msg #842

Re: Supplies

Is a PMK used up if Meyer just uses one gauze bandage from it?
Ben Jagelis
player, 290 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 20 Sep 2008
at 10:55
  • msg #843

Re: Supplies

In reply to Helmut Meyer (msg #842):
quote:
Personal Medical Kit: An individual soldier's first aid kit. Includes bandages, one unit of ± antibiotic, and other first aid materials. This kit is used up in one first aid operation.

Good question!
As it's only a bandage (so far) as a GM, I'd have to say no, but it does render the kit effectively useless until replaced.
If the antibiotic was used, then I think it's fair to say the entire kit is gone as from the description above, that's the main, or at least major component.

But then I'm not the GM in this game....
Ben Jagelis
player, 292 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 20 Sep 2008
at 11:19
  • msg #844

Re: Supplies

Regarding the prisoners, I haven't posted anything as that's really Weiss' role as unit quartermaster/senior NCO.

I would suggest though that we give them enough medical aid to allow them to survive, and take them with us to the crossing point several miles to the north (the ferry at the mouth of the river). At that point, while the vehicles are being prepared to cross, they be interrogated as quickly as possible, and released.

Letting them go at our current location could be a bit of a problem as they'll certainly point out which way we've gone (as if a blind man can't follow our vehicle tracks!) Not interrogating them at all is a waste of a very valuable intel opportunity.

I think heading to Gdansk is a bad idea. We know it's been nuked in the past and I for one don't believe for a second a US unit, especially what is reported to be a medical unit, would be stupid enough to set up there. Also, in the unlikely event US troops are there, they are likely to be surrounded by Pact troops who are intending to either crush them, or contain them and let them starve to death (if the radiation doesn't do them in first).

We have received intel from a more reliable source (either Handley, Creswick, Fox or Varis - can't remember which), that our parent unit, the US 8th ID, has crossed the river and is somewhere to our east.

I strongly believe catching up with the 8th is our only long term chance of survival. We need a strong unit around us for security if we need to stay anywhere more than a day or so, such as when distilling fuel. As we are, we have shown we can repel, if not outright destroy attackers, but I'd much rather not have to fight by having the huge deterrent of an entire division watching my back.
Kurt Weiss
player, 152 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sat 20 Sep 2008
at 12:14
  • msg #845

Re: Supplies

Actually, as senior NCO, it would be my job to maintain security of the prisoners and make sure they are taken care of as best we can.  Disposition is to be decided by officers with possible advisement by NCOs.  At least that's how it works in the U.S.Army.

If asked, he is okay with Ben's plan.

Gdansk is tempting, but its not as tangible as crossing the river.
Tom Handley
player, 106 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Sat 20 Sep 2008
at 14:13
  • msg #846

Re: Supplies

Handley is going to want four of those frag hand grenades, one of the IR goggles, and one PMK.  If nobody else has better use/more need for them, he'll take a pair of binocs and a compass as well.

It looks as though Varis gets the watch he wanted, plus a knife and lighter, since he found those things (the little scavenger probably pocketed them without telling anybody, anyway).  He should also get one of the PMKs, to replace the one he just used on Handley.

The party now has another radio to issue!  Is it a hand radio, or manpack?  Will we be able to tune it to our frequency/frequencies?  Who gets it?
Ben Jagelis
player, 293 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 20 Sep 2008
at 15:29
  • msg #847

Re: Supplies

I'm guessing it's a hand radio and like most military radios, can be tuned to our daily frequency (it should change at least daily).
Probably best to go to the highest ranking character who doesn't have one yet, or doesn't spend the majority of their time as vehicle crew (eg St Gil & Stone).
We'll work that out once the GM updates the comms thread to show Oskar and Doyle I think.
Helmut Meyer
player, 173 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sat 20 Sep 2008
at 16:48
  • msg #848

Re: Supplies

Ben Jagelis:
I think heading to Gdansk is a bad idea. We know it's been nuked in the past and I for one don't believe for a second a US unit, especially what is reported to be a medical unit, would be stupid enough to set up there. Also, in the unlikely event US troops are there, they are likely to be surrounded by Pact troops who are intending to either crush them, or contain them and let them starve to death (if the radiation doesn't do them in first).


I think its worth checking out since it is so close. Boswell did confirm way back that Gdansk was hit with an air burst, so there should be very little if any significant radiation... similar to how Warsaw has inhabitants despite being hit by two nukes.

The Pact's Baltic front is very weak, they may not be able to spare any troops to take out Gdansk and hold the line... just look at the local garrisons. Significantly lower on manpower and armor than the other corps.
Ben Jagelis
player, 294 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sat 20 Sep 2008
at 16:58
  • msg #849

Re: Supplies

Fuel is another concern. Depending on what we gain from teh BMPs, we may not have enough to check Gdansk (which is now basically behind us) and cross the river. We'd be stuck with our backs to the wall and nowhere to go (or fuel to get us there!)

As the BMPs and all the enemy on the battle field do not have any equipment or supplies for more than a day trip, I think it's very safe to say there is significant supporting enemy forces very close by. Maybe they are just the rear eschelon units - supply, medical, etc, but dare we risk it?

I for one will be much happier to have the strong physical barrier of the river between us and the known enemy.
Kurt Weiss
player, 154 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sat 20 Sep 2008
at 17:09
  • msg #850

Re: Supplies

If we head to Gdansk, fuel is an issue, but water crossing is not, yet.

It wouldn't take much for Weiss to go along with a quick recon of Gdansk before we actually commit to crossing the river.
Fusilier
GM, 286 posts
Your Guide
Sat 20 Sep 2008
at 17:47
  • msg #851

Re: Supplies

Helmut Meyer:
Is a PMK used up if Meyer just uses one gauze bandage from it?


No, as it was used - don't worry about deleting it from your inventory.

The captured radio is a short range hand held - compatible/similar with the other tac radios in the group.
Stone
player, 127 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Sat 20 Sep 2008
at 23:44
  • msg #852

Re: Supplies

Re prisoners:  In real life, maybe we kill them and be done with it.  Or take them with us.  But this is a game, so maybe just tying them up and leaving them behind is the best thing to do, with the Refs "OK" that he wont have them suddenly turn up later or tell enemy divisions what our plans are.  All i'm saying is that for the sake of hte game maybe theres an easy game option here.  But i am happy to play it out if that is seen as part of the moralistic side of things.

Re: the 8th and thoughts joining up with them would be best.  In real life, that would be the smartest thing to do.  But this is t2k, and its not "normal" to be with so many friendlies.  Travelling in small groups is more the tone of the game like we are now.  As a group of players, what do we want to do?

Travelling with many others isnt exciting or in hte flavour of the game.  But if we end up as a "pathfinder" group for a division, that would work.  We'd be off on our own, but have some backup.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:04, Sun 21 Sept 2008.
Varis Babicevs
player, 84 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Sun 21 Sep 2008
at 01:49
  • msg #853

Re: Supplies


KC, you should know me better than that. Remember the lengths my PC went to protect those prisoners in your game? The PC doesn't fall too far from the tree.

Varis is just trying to intimidate them into sharing some important info. He's not brutish enough to actually hurt them badly.
Stone
player, 128 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Sun 21 Sep 2008
at 04:08
  • msg #854

Re: Supplies

I hadnt (still havent) read your post Varis (rae).  I just skimmed through the OOC thread i think it was and wondered what we were going to do with the prisoners to enable us to move on.

THere have been a few things where i thought in real life we would take some form of action, but in a game like this i wonder if its really necessary since it takes so long to talk about it and act it out.

Prisoners being one example.  Without having read the IC posts, the fact we have "neutralised" them should mean we can move on without getting into RL ethical battles about what to do with them.

In game, if your pc is going to threaten NPCs for info and stuff, i am fine.

In game, if you want to shoot them and leave them, i am fine - but i hoped to avoid any OOC ethical arguments about what to do.  I'd hope the ref would just play it like we can leave them wihtout having to worry about them.  Otherwise we are forced to shoot them or something to maintain security.

Again Varis, i wrote this without being aware of your post.
Ben Jagelis
player, 295 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sun 21 Sep 2008
at 05:24
  • msg #855

Re: Supplies

I tend to think that after a few years of war and the everpresent spectre of starvation just around the corner, "civilised" behaviour such as sparing prisoners (especially seriously wounded) would go out the window in most cases.

Ben has no qualms at all about executing them if it's for the greater good. If they could be processed properly and according to the book, then great. Otherwise (and depending on the prisoners behaviour more than just about anything else), he's quite happey to either kill them as soon as their usefulness is at an end, or simply let them go if they pose no further threat.

The preference is of course for the latter option, but there'll be no tears shed for the former.
Ben Jagelis
player, 296 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sun 21 Sep 2008
at 05:49
  • msg #856

Re: Supplies

I just realised Ben has prior experience with BMP-2s.
Had one in his last plattoon until some fool US forward observer mistook it for enemy and called a 155mm artillery bombardment down on it. The FO barely escaped with his life in spite of being about a mile away.....
Kurt Weiss
player, 155 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Sun 21 Sep 2008
at 06:21
  • msg #857

Re: Supplies

It's arguable that in a post apocalytic world that hanging on to your humanity is that much more important.

Weiss will encourage dropping them off some place where it will take some time for them to link back up with there unit.

If we decide to execute the prisoners, Weiss will not take part.  Also, in the future, he will encourage not taking prisoners in the first place.

The intel is nice, but not worth his soul.  He already has enough haunting him.
Fusilier
GM, 288 posts
Your Guide
Sun 21 Sep 2008
at 11:44
  • msg #858

Fuel

JJM's IG orders for what to do with the POWs won't lead to any troubles. It won't come back to haunt you is what I mean.

---

I updated the fuel situation including that from the salvaged BMP fuel. I didn't realize just how little was left. I plan on keeping the fuel up to date after each move from now on for better book keeping.

Currently both vehicles can manage 95km of cross country travel. There is no reserve left in the jerry cans at the moment (but there is still 250L of diesel). And the still can add more if you take the time to put it to work.

The M2 fuel tank has 580L and the M113 with hit much lower fuel consumption has 295L.
This message was last edited by the GM at 11:44, Sun 21 Sept 2008.
Tom Handley
player, 107 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Sun 21 Sep 2008
at 15:15
  • msg #859

Injuries

I notice Ben makes no mention of Boswell not being properly combat-ready.   :-)
Ben Jagelis
player, 298 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sun 21 Sep 2008
at 15:18
  • msg #860

Re: Injuries

Goes without saying for him.

;)
Tom Handley
player, 109 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Mon 22 Sep 2008
at 05:15
  • msg #861

Radios and Callsigns

I would say it's about time to update the maps and comms thread with the latest information.  We have some new radios, and the new additions (Handley included) do not have callsigns.  Even though they do not have radios, Varis and Handley should have callsigns for whenever someone is referencing them.  Judging by their posts, Friedmann and Doyle should be read in on the callsigns.
Fusilier
GM, 290 posts
Your Guide
Tue 23 Sep 2008
at 12:01
  • msg #862

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Maps are coming.
I'll leave the radios for you guys to start organizing.

Can I get a confirmation on the following?

1- Creswick's body is being left behind? Minus his gear.
2- JJM is navigating? Any backups? This will diminish any sentry rolls.
3- Doyle is traveling in what vehicle?
4- Any other changes to the seating?
5- You took absolutely everything I posted as captured loot? Plus the BMP ammo?
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:02, Tue 23 Sept 2008.
Stone
player, 131 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Tue 23 Sep 2008
at 12:22
  • msg #863

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Reply to 2 above:  Stone normally tries to follow along (navigate) on his own map as he drives.  Kind of like pilots manually plotting on hard copy maps rather than just relying on GPS systems.  Keeps you in practice, and as the driver stone likes to make sure he knows where he's going.
Helmut Meyer
player, 175 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Tue 23 Sep 2008
at 12:32
  • msg #864

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Fusilier:
4- Any other changes to the seating?


All I know for certain is Meyer is still in the Bradley as a passenger.
Ben Jagelis
player, 300 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 23 Sep 2008
at 13:20
  • msg #865

Re: Radios and Callsigns

From message 289 of the game thread.
quote:
"Might be an idea to switch a few seats while we've got the chance too. Handley's obviously not going to be properly combat ready for a couple of days so he should move over to the '13."
And with Creswick already in the ground, that left two positions vacant in the M2.

"You think that bike'll fit on the back of the '13?" It was going to have to if they had any chance of getting it across the river.
"The two new Americans can then ride with you, rounding out the infantry component."
"That leaves Kelly, Boswell, Gideon and of course Handley to squeeze in amongst the stores."
A jerk of the thumb indicated the M113.

1. Creswick should already be feeding the worms.
2. Ben will do so as well (SOP) and I believe Weiss and St Gil were going to check navigation too. Actually, anyone who can see out should try to navigate and keep watch.
3 & 4. Kelly, Boswell, Gideon and Handley in the M113. Fox, Meyer, Weiss, Doyle, Friedman & Varis in the back of the M2.
5. You bet! The passengers can sort through it as we travel and toss the rubbish into the river while we cross.
Marc St.Gil
player, 134 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Tue 23 Sep 2008
at 14:03
  • msg #866

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Defiantly, I need the practice navigating and we need backup checks.
Fusilier
GM, 291 posts
Your Guide
Wed 24 Sep 2008
at 11:52
  • msg #867

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Ok, thanks for the confirmations. I'll wait putting up the next turn until I know for sure your route (south to search or north to cross).

I keep forgetting to do the maps and add the recent goods, but I'll get on it.
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:06, Wed 24 Sept 2008.
Fusilier
GM, 292 posts
Your Guide
Fri 26 Sep 2008
at 03:17
  • msg #868

Re: Radios and Callsigns

JJM?
Ben Jagelis
player, 303 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 26 Sep 2008
at 04:55
  • msg #869

Re: Radios and Callsigns

I concur.

We need a decision.

We either:
1. Attack the support unit and take their supplies which risks other forces catching up with us (but allows us to travel a LOT further a LOT sooner).
Additionally, we may destroy any force of a strength sufficient to bother us and will certainly deal with the mortar threat.

2. Stay with the orginal plan and head north to the ferry crossing. This has the benefit of putting more miles behind us and potentially avoiding contact in the near future (ferry crossing could be guarded), however our fuel will be almost spent by the time we reach the next river - we'll be forced to halt for an unknown period (probably in the order of a week or more) while distilling/stealing/trading for fuel and food.
Stone
player, 133 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Fri 26 Sep 2008
at 09:45
  • msg #870

Re: Radios and Callsigns

In real life, i'm all for heading to the river crossing.

But as far as the game is concerned, i'm happy to tackle the support unit.
Fusilier
GM, 293 posts
Your Guide
Fri 26 Sep 2008
at 10:34
  • msg #871

Re: Radios and Callsigns

JJ (Mark) seems to be MIA at the moment. It is unlike him - so I figure something must be keeping him from posting. I don't want the game to get stagnant, so if a couple more people pipe up well go with a voted move. Its short notice, but I'll put up a turn later tonight in a couple hours.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 181 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Fri 26 Sep 2008
at 15:18
  • msg #872

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Sorry about the MIA. I went to bed early on Wednesday night and on Thursdays I work late and don't get home til about 11. At that point I go to sleep without logging on.
Matt Doyle
player, 43 posts
2nd Lieutenant
Special Forces (US)
Fri 26 Sep 2008
at 15:18
  • msg #873

Re: Radios and Callsigns

If we sort the callsigns IC, I say lets go steal thier stuff before they can use it on us again. They have already demonstrated a willingness and ability to kepp up with and engage us. Lets go after them this time.
Fusilier
GM, 295 posts
Your Guide
Fri 26 Sep 2008
at 21:21
  • msg #874

Re: Radios and Callsigns

I'll update the travel maps tomorrow. Detailed map is up.
Fusilier
GM, 296 posts
Your Guide
Sat 27 Sep 2008
at 13:07
  • msg #875

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Area maps are updated. What do you want to do with the radios/call signs for the new fellas?
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:08, Sat 27 Sept 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 304 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 29 Sep 2008
at 06:57
  • msg #876

Re: Radios and Callsigns

I'll get that sorted tonight and post suggestions in line with teh current callsigns.
In the meantime, I think we can assume it's been taken care of IC.
Fusilier
GM, 298 posts
Your Guide
Mon 29 Sep 2008
at 08:22
  • msg #877

Re: Radios and Callsigns

I pushed the vehicles ahead a little. I am not sure what your full intentions are so I stopped them half way.
Ben Jagelis
player, 306 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 29 Sep 2008
at 11:52
  • msg #878

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Ok, I suggest the following for callsigns, etc.
Callsign       Meaning              Name                     Rank            Nato code   Personal Radio?
Sunray         Commander            John Jameson McCarthy    Major           OF3          Y*
Sunray Minor   Second-In-Charge     Jennifer Gideon          Captain         OF2          N
Seagull        Operations Adjutant  Ben Jagelis              1st Lt          OF1          Y*
Acorn          Intelligence         Paul Boswell             Lt              OF1          N
Found          Infantry             Matt Doyle               2nd Lt          OF1          Y
Molar          Quarter Master       Kurt Weiss               CSM             OR9          Y
Found Two                           Arthur Fox               Sgt             OR6          Y
Found Three                         Oskar Friedmann          SSgt            OR6          Y
Ironside One   Armour               Marc St.Gil              SSgt            OR6          N*
Holdfast       Engineers            Helmut Meyer             Unteroffizier   OR5          Y
Ironside Two   Armour               Henry Jordan             Spec4           OR4          N*
Starlight      Medical              Tom P. Kelly             Spec4           OR4          N
Found Four                          Tom Handley              Spec4           OR4          N
Playtime       Transport            Stone                    Private         OR2          N*
Found Five                          Varis Babicevs           Auxiliary                    N
Note that I've altered it from the previous list to show Ben now as the Ops officer (as previously posted by JJ I think) and moved Doyle to the Infantry commander.
The list is in order of rank, followed by presumed seniority. I'm unsure of Boswells actual rank, but as an NPC, does it really matter?
Also added a column to indicate who has a personal radio. Note that vehicle crew always have access to a radio when mounted and are marked with an *
Also note that there are two extra headsets in the back of the M113 and I presume there are also extras in the M2 infantry compartment for the use of the dismount commander and 2IC.

I don't know who got the hand radio salvaged from the battelfield recently, but I suggest it go to either Kelly so he can respond to medical emergencies quickly, or Handley as he's carrying a grenade launcher and represents (along with Varis and Friedman) our only indirect fire support. Varis probably shouldn't get it due to his "questionable" status as a possible enemy combatant.

So, is everyone happy with that or are there any suggested changes?
Oskar Friedmann
player, 53 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Mon 29 Sep 2008
at 14:43
  • msg #879

Re: Radios and Callsigns

I was hoping for a unique callsign.  Also, despite Ben's predilections for ye olde foreign spellings, it's still a US outfit: its "Armor".  :P

So, no, no suggested changes.


...


Do any of the vehicles have external speakers?
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 185 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Mon 29 Sep 2008
at 16:43
  • msg #880

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Aargh! Spelling Nazi!!!
Oskar Friedmann
player, 55 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Mon 29 Sep 2008
at 17:45
  • msg #881

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Not really; in some archaic and backwards parts of the world the 'u' is still used in words as a sign of respect for the dark, primitive gods of nature that give all things life and motion which those people worship in hoary ceremonies.  Its an accepted spelling, just not an American one.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 56 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Mon 29 Sep 2008
at 20:41
  • msg #882

Re: Radios and Callsigns

John Jameson McCarthy:
"Varis," JJ said, "I want you to check out the signaller and make contact. Does anyone want to go with him?"


The silence is deafening.
Tom P. Kelly
player, 66 posts
Spec4
Medic (US)
Mon 29 Sep 2008
at 21:20
  • msg #883

Re: Radios and Callsigns

If Kelly can hear the message, he'll volunteer, we could prolly barter some medical supplies or something.
Ben Jagelis
player, 307 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 30 Sep 2008
at 03:19
  • msg #884

Re: Radios and Callsigns

In reply to Oskar Friedmann (msg #881):

Only accepted as far as I know in American "Client States" who've had it forced down their throats. ;)

No, Ben (and myself) will stick with the Queens English thanks, not some bastardised version of it created just because Americans can't spell anything other than phonetically!   ;)
Kurt Weiss
player, 158 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Tue 30 Sep 2008
at 03:54
  • msg #885

Re: Radios and Callsigns

The Brits may have stolen English from German, French, Greek and Latin, but it was the Americans that perfected it...
Ben Jagelis
player, 308 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 30 Sep 2008
at 04:20
  • msg #886

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Perfected? I think not! More like brutalised it!    ;)
Matt Doyle
player, 46 posts
2nd Lieutenant
Special Forces (US)
Tue 30 Sep 2008
at 04:45
  • msg #887

Re: Radios and Callsigns

At least we don't spell as bad as the Soviets used to. How many members of a brain trust does it take to realise that USSR is not spelled CCCP?
Ben Jagelis
player, 309 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 30 Sep 2008
at 04:56
  • msg #888

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Very true....   :)
Ben Jagelis
player, 310 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 30 Sep 2008
at 14:41
  • msg #889

Re: Radios and Callsigns



This shows the cargo hatch of the Bradley fairly clearly I think....
Looks big enough for two people to squeeze through if they're being friendly but might be a bit of a problem if the turret rotates while they're out the top.

quote:
B-8. WATER-CROSSING CAPABILITY

The BFV can ford up to 3.5 feet of water. With its water barrier erected, the BFV can swim water obstacles with currents up to 6.4 kilometers per hour. It has a maximum speed of 7.25 kilometers per hour while swimming. Erection of the swim barrier takes about 15 minutes for the M2A1 BFV and about 25 minutes for the M2A2. The BFV requires an exit bank slope not greater than 17 percent and can fire both its 25-mm and 7.62-mm systems while swimming, though care must be taken not to hit the trim vane or water barrier (cannot fire below +7 degrees). The 25-mm can be fired in any direction while swimming; however, the turret should not be traversed because it may upset the balance of the vehicle. (See Chapter 6 for more information.)

This message was last edited by the player at 14:53, Tue 30 Sept 2008.
Fusilier
GM, 299 posts
Your Guide
Tue 30 Sep 2008
at 14:53
  • msg #890

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Here is another. It is pretty small.

Fusilier
GM, 303 posts
Your Guide
Fri 3 Oct 2008
at 17:53
  • msg #891

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Am I losing people? Or are people waiting for leadership PCs to move first?
Kurt Weiss
player, 159 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Fri 3 Oct 2008
at 18:03
  • msg #892

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Still here, just not in the action.  Waiting for an order to dismount or for the poop to otherwise hit the fan.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 61 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Fri 3 Oct 2008
at 18:31
  • msg #893

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Got my pee-pee slapped and am now waiting for the same things Weiss is.  Don't know who among us can speak Polish or Russian but if its only Varis then there's going to be a problem.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:32, Fri 03 Oct 2008.
Arthur Fox
player, 83 posts
Sergeant
British Army
Fri 3 Oct 2008
at 19:31
  • msg #894

Re: Radios and Callsigns

See Fox's message #361, he speaks some russian.

Of course he and Varis are in the same location far away from the two vehicles.
Tom P. Kelly
player, 70 posts
Spec4
Medic (US)
Fri 3 Oct 2008
at 19:44
  • msg #895

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Present and accounted for.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 62 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Fri 3 Oct 2008
at 20:17
  • msg #896

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Arthur Fox:
See Fox's message #361, he speaks some russian.

Of course he and Varis are in the same location far away from the two vehicles.


Yeah, that's where I was going with that.  :p
Fusilier
GM, 307 posts
Your Guide
Sun 5 Oct 2008
at 05:38
  • msg #897

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Fellas, I'm catching a flight back to Canada this afternoon. I live in Thailand but will be going home for 2 weeks to visit family. I will be posting, so I don't want to put the game on hold. But - its a long flight. I will be out of touch for about 36 hours.

Just to let you know. Continue any discussion if you want. That way when I return any course of action is already firmly decided and we can resume.

The people are not willing to negotiate a crossing. But, as some of you like Stone said, this isn't the GM stopping you from doing what you want. Know what I mean?

Thanks for all you interest and patience. See you in about two days.
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:39, Sun 05 Oct 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 314 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 6 Oct 2008
at 23:30
  • msg #898

Re: Radios and Callsigns

John Jameson McCarthy:
JJ frowned and used the intercom and radio as necessary to get the message to the troops, "As yet this is a warning order but it looks like we'll have to fight, on my command, the Bushmaster will open up, M113 will add to the suppressive fire. Dismounts prepare to debuss and secure flanks. No one is to set foot on the bridge until we have neutralised the opposition, Gideon, I'm betting theres a command mine there so get ready. No violence until my word, let's try to talk ourselves out of this, but be ready if you please."

I assume that's supposed to be "radio as little as necessary".
I also hope the correct callsigns and codewords are being used instead of terms such as "bushmaster", M113, and so on. There's no point in broadcasting our capabilities unnecessarily.
Fusilier
GM, 308 posts
Your Guide
Thu 9 Oct 2008
at 15:18
  • msg #899

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Hey,

I'm back. Took a little longer than I thought. I'll get a game post up in a couple hours. Thanks for sticking around.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 197 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Thu 9 Oct 2008
at 20:01
  • msg #900

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Good to see you back.

I'm going to hold off my post until there's more feedback on the situation for me to make a decision. As far as I can see, there are several options:
1) Offer them so much that we might sway them
2) Fight and kill them and risk dying
3) Double back and face whatever is behind us by now
4) Hit a 90 degree turn here and cross the river where we are, if it's suitable. We might be able to offer some stuff to the guardpost to let us do that unmolested, but it might not be feasible.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 65 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Thu 9 Oct 2008
at 20:25
  • msg #901

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Assuming Weiss shares his intel and jacket-man is telling the truth, those marauders are probably from Gdansk if they crossed back over.
Fusilier
GM, 310 posts
Your Guide
Thu 9 Oct 2008
at 21:49
  • msg #902

Re: Radios and Callsigns

John Jameson McCarthy:
Good to see you back.

I'm going to hold off my post until there's more feedback on the situation for me to make a decision. As far as I can see, there are several options:
1) Offer them so much that we might sway them
2) Fight and kill them and risk dying
3) Double back and face whatever is behind us by now
4) Hit a 90 degree turn here and cross the river where we are, if it's suitable. We might be able to offer some stuff to the guardpost to let us do that unmolested, but it might not be feasible.


Thanks. From the GMs perspective to help clarify the situation...
1) Possible. I'll roll it to be fair. But the fellas on the bridge appear to not allow anyone to get close. Keep in mind the same situation screwed them before.
2) Very possible. They are not trained soldiers and are lightly armed. They may have a means to knock out armour, but its nothing noticeable.
3) Possible.
4) You can't cross the Nagant river here as the banks are built up (like a canal). But there is nothing stopping you from heading a bit over to the west and trying there. You can also potentially cross the Vistula (to your immediate east).
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:50, Thu 09 Oct 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 315 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Thu 9 Oct 2008
at 21:55
  • msg #903

Re: Radios and Callsigns

1. Our best bet I think
2. 2nd best if not exactly moral
3. Could be a whole brigade coming after us, might even include tanks this time.
4. Any river crossing is going to take time - at least half an hour in my estimation to prepare the two vehicles (M113 takes about 30 seconds, the M2 20 minutes and the trailer, well, not sure but wrapping it up in tarps, fixing extra floats etc can't be a quick job). Therefore, can we really risk staying still so long so close to our last known position? I say not.

Our crossing, any crossing, needs to be done when we believe we have the greatest amount of time available to do so unmolested.
Varis Babicevs
player, 95 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Thu 9 Oct 2008
at 22:25
  • msg #904

Re: Radios and Callsigns


Even Varis will feel shitty if we shoot our way across. Let's head west and try someplace else.
Ben Jagelis
player, 316 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 10 Oct 2008
at 01:36
  • msg #905

Re: Radios and Callsigns

There is nowhere else that won't require swimming or burning up far too much fuel.

Perhaps if the negotiations to buy our way across don't work, would could force passage minimising the militia casualties as much as possible and leaving the items we've been offering behind anyway.
Perhaps an offer of medical assistance could work?
Oskar Friedmann
player, 66 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Fri 10 Oct 2008
at 01:40
  • msg #906

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Medical assistance before or after we shoot the crap out of them?
Ben Jagelis
player, 317 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 10 Oct 2008
at 01:52
  • msg #907

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Meh, either, or....

Another reason why we should not move west is that we came from that general direction. We know there is at least one Polish Cavalry division in that direction who are more than aware of our presence within the district.

The whole aim of heading to the ferry is to put as much distance between us and them as we possibly can before being forced to reduce our defences and mobility (albeit temporarily) to cross the Vistula. The fact that the ferry crossing is essentially purpose built for vehicles to enter and exit the water is just a HUGE bonus. Who know, we might even get lucky and find the ferry itself is still in one peice (rather unlikely though) and could be used in some way or other...
Helmut Meyer
player, 183 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Fri 10 Oct 2008
at 14:38
  • msg #908

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Varis Babicevs:
Even Varis will feel shitty if we shoot our way across. Let's head west and try someplace else.


I'll feel bad about using force, but am ready for whatever is decided.

We should act soon too. They have some comms with elsewhere and who knows who that is. We should either try someone (who has persuasion) to make an offer to the man. But I think its clear that it won't be very likely to succeed. Or make tracks.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:39, Fri 10 Oct 2008.
Fusilier
GM, 311 posts
Your Guide
Fri 10 Oct 2008
at 18:51
  • msg #909

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Do you guys need more time to come up with what action you are going to take? Do you need more info? I am not sure if we are bogging down at this little stalemate or not. I'd like to push things on, but not if you guys aren't ready.
William Hicks
player, 21 posts
SPC, US Army Aviation
Comedian
Fri 10 Oct 2008
at 19:12
  • msg #910

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Are we at the Brad yet, or are we keeping our distance?  I would like to know...you know, so I can continue talking.
Fusilier
GM, 312 posts
Your Guide
Fri 10 Oct 2008
at 19:18
  • msg #911

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Yes. Hicks, Varis, and Fox are at the Bradley. Varis passed on the info Hicks had to the Major. Thats about it though.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 198 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sat 11 Oct 2008
at 16:44
  • msg #912

Between a rock and a hard place

OK, I'm leaning toward a crossing of the Vistula here, I know it's risky, but it avoids us blowing away some stubborn civilians and leaving more widows and orphans in Northern Poland.

If we have an agreement, I'd suggest something like this:
1) The Motorcycle, 2 men and the AT Mines drive back to where the branch of water makes a choke point. They act as Recon and mine the roads if they can.
2) Dismounts take the M60 and RPgs and spread out, the enemy can only come at us on a 200-300m wide front so we should be able to make it difficult for them.
3) Get the M2 to cross first with the M113 on overwatch then the M2 can cover from accross the river while the M113 crosses.

As a refinement, we may be able to trade some goods for a boat from the boatyard to ferry the dismounts over once the vehicles are crossed.

Well, it's up there to be shot down in flames, so feel free to.
Helmut Meyer
player, 184 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sat 11 Oct 2008
at 17:36
  • msg #913

Re: Between a rock and a hard place

I'm in. Lets do it.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 199 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sat 11 Oct 2008
at 19:30
  • msg #914

Re: Between a rock and a hard place

1x  PK medium machine gun (300x rounds of linked 7.62mmL) +1300 from the coax guns
1x  RPK-74 (3x 45 round magazines)
2x  AKR SMG (3x 30 round magazines)
12x Hand fragmentation grenade
1x  Smoke Grenade (Purple)
2x  Binoculars
8x  AK74 rifles (29x 30 round magazines)
2x  AKM rifle (5x 30 round magazines)
1x  Civilian flashlight
1x  Notebook (w/pencil attached by string)
1x Short range Soviet military radio
2x 50,000 Scale map of local area (the only markings are those where the party engaged the Polish reaction force and the MSR outpost and the estimated time of each engagement)
2x Compass
3x Makarov (1 magazine)
3x IR Goggles (Gen I Soviet issue)
1x Alcohol Molotov
1x Cheap watch (with built in calculator)
1x Butterfly knife
1x Bic lighter (1/4 fuel)
1x AT Mine
1x AT Grenade
1x RPG-16 (x4 rockets) that was not deployed due to the owner being killed in the BMP and the launcher left behind for an unknown reason.
2x Packs of homemade cigarettes
3x PMK (the remainder are used on the wounded so Kelly's supply is unchanged)
Hasthis been added to our inventory? If not, we have another RPG we can deploy as well as the PKMG.
Fusilier
GM, 313 posts
Your Guide
Sat 11 Oct 2008
at 19:35
  • msg #915

Re: Between a rock and a hard place

Not added... adding now. If you can get to a decent place for trade you'd be set for food and fuel.
Fusilier
GM, 314 posts
Your Guide
Sat 11 Oct 2008
at 19:50
  • msg #916

Re: Between a rock and a hard place

Note there are some NVGs, a tac radio, grenades, and other gear that your PC may be without. Let me know if you want to draw any stores from the unit's inventory.
Tom Handley
player, 116 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Sat 11 Oct 2008
at 22:54
  • msg #917

Re: Between a rock and a hard place

As I posted in Message #846,
quote:
Handley is going to want four of those frag hand grenades, one of the IR goggles, and one PMK.  If nobody else has better use/more need for them, he'll take a pair of binocs and a compass as well.

I also mentioned Varis should get one of the remaining PMKs to replace the one he used on Handley.  Meyer should probably get the radio, as he is the highest ranking infantry-type without one.
Fusilier
GM, 315 posts
Your Guide
Sat 11 Oct 2008
at 22:58
  • msg #918

Re: Between a rock and a hard place

Meyer already has a radio (so its still available).
I'll subtract those things you want now for Handley. Go ahead and add them to your sheet (I'll take it that Tom collected them along the route to the current location since you posted the request before).
This message was last edited by the GM at 23:05, Sat 11 Oct 2008.
Tom Handley
player, 117 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Sun 12 Oct 2008
at 00:17
  • msg #919

Re: Between a rock and a hard place

Sheet upsated.  I also grabbed a dozen 40mm HEDP.

So, who gets the radio?  Who else, besides Handley and Varis, does not have one?  Maybe Kelly should get it, so as to be on call for treating wounded.
Varis Babicevs
player, 97 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Sun 12 Oct 2008
at 02:08
  • msg #920

Re: Between a rock and a hard place


Varis already claimed the cheap calculator watch, IC. Anyone trying to take it back is going to get a Latvian style knuckle sandwich.
Helmut Meyer
player, 185 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Sun 12 Oct 2008
at 02:42
  • msg #921

Re: Between a rock and a hard place

Varis Babicevs:
Varis already claimed the cheap calculator watch, IC. Anyone trying to take it back is going to get a Latvian style knuckle sandwich.


LOL, Varis is awesome.
Ben Jagelis
player, 318 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Sun 12 Oct 2008
at 13:07
  • msg #922

Re: Between a rock and a hard place

Lets give the radio to Kelly. As previously posted, it's probably a good idea for our medic to be able to respond quickly to emergencies...

I'd like to have the trailer towed across by the first vehicle. That would allow both vehicles to remain close by for support (if needed) while the trailer is prepared. It will also allow the maximum number of people to assist in preparing it and getting it into the water.

If the M2 is to go across first, does that mean the infantry screen will be withdrawn at that time? There's certainly not enough space in the M113 to manage the crossing safely with everyone aboard plus all the stores and motorcycle.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 200 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Sun 12 Oct 2008
at 14:11
  • msg #923

Re: Between a rock and a hard place

The order of the vehicles crossing can easily be changed.

So we go with the M113 first then.

OK, I'll get set with some orders.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 203 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Mon 13 Oct 2008
at 16:22
  • msg #924

Re: Between a rock and a hard place

JJ asked Meyer and Varis to cross with the M113 to provide cover over there. That's the first crossing. The boat will bring the last dismounts across when both vehicles are over.
Kurt Weiss
player, 165 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Mon 13 Oct 2008
at 20:13
  • msg #925

Re: Between a rock and a hard place

Hey guys (and gals?),

Just so you know, my timeline got bumped up and I have only two to three weeks of consistant posting before my tour in the sandbox.  Internet access will likely be very poor the first two to three months with an unknown improvement sometime after that.

I like to think that I would be able to keep up once things got a little settled over there, but I cannot promise anything.  That being said, I understand whatever you decide to do with Kurt.

No matter what, this has been a great game so far and has awesome potential for continued coolness and I thank you for the opportunity to game with you all.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 68 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Mon 13 Oct 2008
at 21:39
  • msg #926

Re: Between a rock and a hard place

Stay safe in Mortaritaville.
Ben Jagelis
player, 319 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Tue 14 Oct 2008
at 00:13
  • msg #927

Re: Between a rock and a hard place

I think we can work with Weiss not being as active as you have been.

On that note, I may be a little quiet myself for a while as I will be changing companies at the end of the month. Loads to do before leaving here so that those left behind aren't drowned in paperwork they know nothing about.
William Hicks
player, 26 posts
SPC, US Army Aviation
Comedian
Tue 14 Oct 2008
at 11:51
  • msg #928

Re: Between a rock and a hard place

Oskar Friedmann:
Stay safe in Mortaritaville.


Balad
Tom P. Kelly
player, 73 posts
Spec4
Medic (US)
Wed 15 Oct 2008
at 01:11
  • msg #929

Re: Between a rock and a hard place

Kurt Weiss:
Hey guys (and gals?),

Just so you know, my timeline got bumped up and I have only two to three weeks of consistant posting before my tour in the sandbox.  Internet access will likely be very poor the first two to three months with an unknown improvement sometime after that.

I like to think that I would be able to keep up once things got a little settled over there, but I cannot promise anything.  That being said, I understand whatever you decide to do with Kurt.

No matter what, this has been a great game so far and has awesome potential for continued coolness and I thank you for the opportunity to game with you all.

Stay safe out there.
Ben Jagelis
player, 321 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 15 Oct 2008
at 03:39
  • msg #930

Re: Radios and Callsigns

In reply to Ben Jagelis (msg #878):

Matt Doyle:
Cap (who plays Doyle) will be unable to continue gaming with us due to real life issue. By sending Doyle off someplace else it keeps his PC alive if he should be able to return. It'll also potentially give you a contact in Gdansk if you ever decide to head back that way.

So we may need to alter the callsigns again slightly and work out who's to have command of the dismounted element (Found).
Weiss would be the obvious choice, but with them heading OS shortly we should move to the next character which is Fox. Fox has indicated they prefer working alone so perhaps may not be the best as a section/squad commander.
Next is Friedman - how much can we trust somebody we've known less than an hour?
And so on down to Meyer - he's German and an engineer, but they've shown they're up to the job. I reccomend they get it if Fox passes (and we can justify Weiss being passed over IC).
Fusilier
GM, 317 posts
Your Guide
Wed 15 Oct 2008
at 03:52
  • msg #931

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Meyer already has his own tac radio. Is Kelly taking a radio (mentioned earlier as he is a medic)?
Ben Jagelis
player, 322 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 15 Oct 2008
at 03:54
  • msg #932

Re: Radios and Callsigns

I think it was decided we'd throw the recently aquired hand radio at him for his use. On the other hand, so long as he stays in the M113, he should have access, if not general use, of one of the two passenger headsets.
Stone
player, 145 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Wed 15 Oct 2008
at 04:04
  • msg #933

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Ben Jagelis:
In reply to Ben Jagelis (msg #878):

<quote Matt Doyle>Next is Friedman - how much can we trust somebody we've known less than an hour?
And so on down to Meyer - he's German and an engineer, but they've shown they're up to the job. I reccomend they get it if Fox passes (and we can justify Weiss being passed over IC).


Do we really need a CoC?  T2K is kinda "war without the hassle of CoC", isnt it?

I guess its easier if someone is in charge.  But at the end of the day we dont need a formal CoC, whomever has the mens confidance, thats who they'll follow.  So i guess its "rank" thats not important, rather than whose in charge.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 69 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Wed 15 Oct 2008
at 04:17
  • msg #934

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Well, so far its actually been run very much in military fashion.  CoC has been stressed IC as being of high importance for unit morale.

Friedmann especially has been trying to buck it, to little avail.  Getting the generic order that "you're on your own" and then following the last command you were part of to the best of your ability makes both myself and the character think of Japanese soldiers on far-flung islands unaware of the end of the war.
Ben Jagelis
player, 323 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 15 Oct 2008
at 04:24
  • msg #935

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Based on the past couple of combats, I think yes, we definately need a clear cut commander on the ground. Ben would be quite happy to take on the job if there was somebody reasonably qualified to fill the M113 commanders position, but with who we currently have available, we'd have to pull one of the infantry types to do it.

Captain Gideon, while of sufficent rank/authority, has proven to be unreliable and lacking in skill.
Boswell again has the rank, but does anyone trust him not to shoot us all up accidently next time he sneezes?
Handley probably has the skills, but is only a Private and is also wounded.
Kelly, our medic has other duties even if they had the skills and knowledge of armoured warfare.
And then there's Hicks who we still know very little about.
Those I haven't mentioned are either already vehicle crew or appear to be better skilled in dismounted operations - eg. who'd even consider having Fox, a sniper, as an armoured vehicle comander?

Having a clear cut command structure enables rapid reaction to events as they occur, provided everyone does what they're told. Without it, who's to say the fire support (cover fire) will be there when dashing forward to lob your grenade? Their would, as in previous contact, be little in the way of tactics used - the only real reason we won previous encounters was due to superior firepower and the will to use it.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 70 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Wed 15 Oct 2008
at 04:51
  • msg #936

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Order, cohesion and coordination are good things.

The jump that takes one from there to rank-as-measure-of-ability is an assumption rooted in a pre-nukes military mindset.

If it helps to think of it in strict military terms perhaps the Major ought to be assigning a fat load of Field Commissions and summary demotions to make it all work out with the titles still intact.
Varis Babicevs
player, 100 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Wed 15 Oct 2008
at 05:38
  • msg #937

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Ben Jagelis:
Based on the past couple of combats, I think yes, we definately need a clear cut commander on the ground.


Alright, alright, there's no need to keep beating around the bush. Yes. For the good of the unit, Varis will accept the burden of command.

Next time, just ask.
Ben Jagelis
player, 324 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Wed 15 Oct 2008
at 05:55
  • msg #938

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Absolutely agree! The world of TK is very top heavy as far as ranks go. Realistically, even a well trained senior Private (US Corporal equivalent) should be able to handle a unit of approximately men, provided they're actually qualifed in that area - an aircraft mechanic for example might have the rank, but they'd be next to useless in armoured operations.

Fortunately for us, modern armies operate closely with light armour/APCs to the extend that many units are combined arms (mechanised infantry being a prime example). With this sort of organisation it's usually standard practise for the infantry NCOs and up to cross train and learn armoured operations, proceedures, tactics and so on.

A decade or two back when I was in the infantry, and our battalion was only foot or truck mobile, we still worked from time to time with APCs, but that didn't include actually operating the vehicles (barely had a brief unoffical familiarisation session with the .30 and .50 cal machineguns). However, we did still run over vehicle tactics and so on, fair more than the above mentioned aircraft mech would.

So what am I getting at? Good question and one I'd like the answer to as well...  :S
Basically, military forces in T2K are operating on command structures and organisations of the late 80s and early to mid 90's. Except in larger armies, combined arms at small unit level is relatively unknown and so only NCO's and up would have the required level of training to adequately control even just one armoured vehicle (unless actually armour corp or similar).

Even today in late 2008 how common is it for medics, engineers, logistical support troops and so on to be issued armoured vehicles? By far the majority are still, and will be for many decades to come, riding about in trucks, jeeps and various other unarmoured vehicles with little to no exposure to APCs, tanks, IFVs and the like.

Hmmm, hope that all makes sense and isn't too far off the topic....   :S
Stone
player, 146 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Wed 15 Oct 2008
at 06:59
  • msg #939

Re: Radios and Callsigns

is the bradley crossing first or second?
Marc St.Gil
player, 139 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Wed 15 Oct 2008
at 12:43
  • msg #940

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Unless I am mixed up, which is always a possibility :) , the brad is going second.
Tom Handley
player, 121 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Wed 15 Oct 2008
at 16:19
  • msg #941

Grumble, grumble, grumble...

Since nobody has said anything about getting back in the M113 before its crossing attempt, Handley is still on the west bank with the Bradley.  You know, I do not appreciate having my character ignored, particularly when he asks a direct question.  It's bad enough he is wounded and can't do much action-wise for a while, but someone should be able to at least acknowledge his presence.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 71 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Wed 15 Oct 2008
at 16:32
  • msg #942

Re: Grumble, grumble, grumble...

MAROONED!
Fusilier
GM, 319 posts
Your Guide
Wed 15 Oct 2008
at 17:21
  • msg #943

Re: Grumble, grumble, grumble...

Sorry Tom. But I'm glad you brought it to our attention.

Fellas, please be careful in reading the posts. Nobody wants to play if they are being ignored - even if it is by accident. I can say it might be because we have so many players - there is a lot to read and its sometimes hard to keep track of everyone. I'm probably guilty of this myself sometimes.

To clarify for myself... only the crews are being ported across in the vehicles (+ Meyer and Varis). The rest are being shipped by the small boat?
Tom Handley
player, 123 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Wed 15 Oct 2008
at 21:53
  • msg #944

M72 LAW

Help me out here.  It's been over a quarter of a century since I've seen the empty LAW tube my ROTC-member roommate had in his closet.  IIRC, there is a cotter pin holding the two sections of tubing in the collapsed position.  Or was it there to prevent depression of the firing button?  Or were there two?  One other question -- once telescoped, is it possible to collaspe and reseal the tube again without having fired the rocket?
Tom P. Kelly
player, 74 posts
Spec4
Medic (US)
Wed 15 Oct 2008
at 23:18
  • msg #945

Re: Radios and Callsigns

Fusilier:
Meyer already has his own tac radio. Is Kelly taking a radio (mentioned earlier as he is a medic)?


Sure.
Fusilier
GM, 320 posts
Your Guide
Thu 16 Oct 2008
at 01:46
  • msg #946

Re: M72 LAW

Tom Handley:
Help me out here.  It's been over a quarter of a century since I've seen the empty LAW tube my ROTC-member roommate had in his closet.  IIRC, there is a cotter pin holding the two sections of tubing in the collapsed position.  Or was it there to prevent depression of the firing button?  Or were there two?  One other question -- once telescoped, is it possible to collaspe and reseal the tube again without having fired the rocket?


There is a cotter pin on the rear end cap. Removing that released the cap and the front cap as that one was held on too by a connecting piece (a long thin piece of metal resembling a rectangular strap.)That piece holds the two caps tight which is what keeps the tube from extending (its also part of the sling).

You can't depress the fire button until it is extended - it needs to be fully extended with enough force for it to lock in place. Only locked (and the safty lever extended as well) will the trigger mech depress.

You can collapse it again for future used... the only disadvantage is that it is no longer water tight (rain resistant yes, but not completely sealed).

I'm not sure if I was clear, but that's my side of things.
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:48, Thu 16 Oct 2008.
Ben Jagelis
player, 325 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Thu 16 Oct 2008
at 02:52
  • msg #947

Re: M72 LAW

One good point about the M72 is that once fired, several beer cans plus ice fit snugly inside....

:P
Tom Handley
player, 124 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Thu 16 Oct 2008
at 03:33
  • msg #948

Re: M72 LAW

In reply to Fusilier (msg #946):

Yeah, I remembered the connecting piece; I just was not sure I remembered where the cotter pin was.  It was 1979 that I last saw that LAW, and my memory is not what it once was.  Thanks for the info.  Now if Handley needs to pop his open, he can.   :-)
Fusilier
GM, 322 posts
Your Guide
Thu 16 Oct 2008
at 04:41
  • msg #949

Re: M72 LAW

No problem.

Ok, clarification please. The last dismounts cross in the boat right. After the Bradley hits the far shore? If they are supposed to leave at the same time, let me know and I'll edit the post.
Fusilier
GM, 323 posts
Your Guide
Thu 16 Oct 2008
at 05:37
  • msg #950

Re: M72 LAW

Stone:
OOC: i guess Stone can make a call to speed up much like on land, and take a combination driving/swimming task check.


Correct. I did/am rolling for both vehicles.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 206 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Thu 16 Oct 2008
at 18:19
  • msg #951

Re: M72 LAW

The last dismounts were to cover the Bradley's crossing and then come over in the rowing boat.
Kurt Weiss
player, 166 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Thu 16 Oct 2008
at 20:42
  • msg #952

Re: M72 LAW

The .50cal and the 25mm could do a world of hurt on that Hind.
Ben Jagelis
player, 326 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 17 Oct 2008
at 00:30
  • msg #953

Hind

My thoughts exactly.....
Just need to find time to post.
Stone
player, 150 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Fri 17 Oct 2008
at 00:48
  • msg #954

Re: Hind

Nobodies scared then?

Its sooo much easier not to be scared when your NOT in hte Bradley :-)
Ben Jagelis
player, 327 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Fri 17 Oct 2008
at 00:57
  • msg #955

Re: Hind

quote:
B-8. WATER-CROSSING CAPABILITY

The BFV can ford up to 3.5 feet of water. With its water barrier erected, the BFV can swim water obstacles with currents up to 6.4 kilometers per hour. It has a maximum speed of 7.25 kilometers per hour while swimming. Erection of the swim barrier takes about 15 minutes for the M2A1 BFV and about 25 minutes for the M2A2. The BFV requires an exit bank slope not greater than 17 percent and can fire both its 25-mm and 7.62-mm systems while swimming, though care must be taken not to hit the trim vane or water barrier (cannot fire below +7 degrees). The 25-mm can be fired in any direction while swimming; however, the turret should not be traversed because it may upset the balance of the vehicle. (See Chapter 6 for more information.)

I actually think the Bradley is in a slightly better position than the dangerously exposed M113. There's a whole river around the Bradley adding a lot to the effective armour of the vehicle although a hit to the water barrier might prove problematic. Still, it is a smaller target and should be considered as hull down for the purpose of hitting it.
As for traversing the turret, when there's a hind nearby, I think I'd be inclined to take a risk, especially if there were infantry inside able to act as "moveable ballast".
Kurt Weiss
player, 167 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Fri 17 Oct 2008
at 02:57
  • msg #956

Re: Hind

The Bradley has touched the far side of the river.  No worries about tipping.
Tom Handley
player, 126 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Fri 17 Oct 2008
at 03:56
  • msg #957

Re: Hind

Where's an A-10 when you need one?  ;-)
Kurt Weiss
player, 168 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Fri 17 Oct 2008
at 16:42
  • msg #958

Re: Hind

In reply to Oskar Friedmann's in game comment:

Actually, the Hind does pretty much need an AT round to kill it.  Although enough .50cal would probably do the trick.  It is designed as a Airmobile Tank.  It has by far the best armored body of any helicopter made.

.50 cal minimum.  The 25mm for desired affect.  Don't even bother with 7.62.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 74 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Fri 17 Oct 2008
at 17:34
  • msg #959

Re: Hind

I figured the assault rifles weren't going to do it - my mistake was using 'round' instead of 'rocket'.  I was more going for the fact that it wasn't going to take a LAW.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 208 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Fri 17 Oct 2008
at 18:23
  • msg #960

Re: Hind

Technically, if we use the TK2 air combat rules, you can't engage an aircraft with anything but auto fire or anti-air missiles, RPGs just don't cut it. Real life would suggest that RPGs do have a chance, especially if we tag team the Hind.

An option might be to use the M2 to draw the Hind's attention, maybe splitting it with the M113 trying to flank it and allow the RPGs to line up a couple of shots at a 90 degree angle to the copter's line of attack.

With the Bush master and M113 pumping out rounds, we might score a lucky hit, as might the LAW and RPG 16 in the boat, there's also an RPG team on the Eastern shore that might be able to cause some mischief/damage, all assuming the Hind comes in close and doesn't do us from a distance.

Well, that sounds great from a narrative point of view, but as a real life tactic, it probably sucks.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 75 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Fri 17 Oct 2008
at 18:25
  • msg #961

Re: Hind

Stinger's not anti-armor, its anti-air.  It can push through a Hind but that hardly classifies it as an anti-tank rocket.

Armor should be able to handle a helicopter it can see and engage within its range.  On a row boat?  Not much to do but pray and duck.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:44, Fri 17 Oct 2008.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 209 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Fri 17 Oct 2008
at 18:41
  • msg #962

Re: Hind

I don't think we have any Stingers, I was talking about the situation we had, I have no doubt a Stinger would do the job unless it over penetrate (if such a thing is possible).
Oskar Friedmann
player, 76 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Fri 17 Oct 2008
at 18:47
  • msg #963

Re: Hind

Was a reply to Handley.  Overpenetration shouldn't be a problem - at that point its a sabot.  :)
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 210 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Fri 17 Oct 2008
at 19:11
  • msg #964

Re: Hind

My bad, sorry.
Tom Handley
player, 128 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Fri 17 Oct 2008
at 19:23
  • msg #965

Re: Hind

In reply to Oskar Friedmann (msg #961):

Okay, I should have added "to knock down Hinds" to the thought about Stingers.  The point is, Hinds are too tough for most infantry-portable weapons except rockets and missiles.
Kurt Weiss
player, 169 posts
Command Sergeant Major
Army Special Forces (US)
Fri 17 Oct 2008
at 21:14
  • msg #966

Re: Hind

Stingers are VERY effective against Hinds.  That is why we gave them to the Afghanis during the Soviet invasion, and they used them to incredible effectiveness.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 78 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Fri 17 Oct 2008
at 21:40
  • msg #967

Re: Hind

Yeah, my point was more that the Bradley would do everything and it was out of the boat crew's hands.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 79 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Sat 18 Oct 2008
at 13:09
  • msg #968

Re: Hind

Tom Handley:
In reply to Oskar Friedmann (msg #961):

Okay, I should have added "to knock down Hinds" to the thought about Stingers.  The point is, Hinds are too tough for most infantry-portable weapons except rockets and missiles.


I think the real problem is the average speed of the helicopter making man-portable stuff too difficult to employ effectively.  You want something fast and maneuverable (the Stinger) or something with a bit of punch that can be sprayed (the .50 or the 25mm).  I'd think that knocking a flying helicopter out with a LAW from a reasonable distance when its doing anything other than deploying troops would be a hell of a difficult shot to make.

I would think it should be a difficult but doable target for the Bradley.

...

In other news, Kelly just made things a lot more interesting.  :p
Tom P. Kelly
player, 76 posts
Spec4
Medic (US)
Sat 18 Oct 2008
at 23:19
  • msg #969

Re: Hind

Oskar Friedmann:
In other news, Kelly just made things a lot more interesting.  :p


Meh, maybe he'll hit the tail rotor somehow. Golden BB's DO happen!
Oskar Friedmann
player, 80 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Sun 19 Oct 2008
at 02:02
  • msg #970

Re: Hind

Wikipedia tells me that the rotors are titanium.  Try to ricochet a shot off the fuselage and into the pilot.  :p
Fusilier
GM, 325 posts
Your Guide
Sun 19 Oct 2008
at 03:02
  • msg #971

Re: Hind

Sorry for the delay. I was gathering information on the aviation rules (thanks Mark), stats for the Hind, etc. I'm still away from home so I don't have my resources with me - as in I'm a little slow this week.

Hope I'm keeping y'all interested. I've been doing some spare thinking about plot developments - so you are not just facing off against the same old returning enemy and such.

Turn will be up in an hour or so.
Ben Jagelis
player, 328 posts
Canadian Lieutenant
Airborne Infantry
Mon 20 Oct 2008
at 04:39
  • msg #972

Re: Hind

orry I've been a bit quiet - been on the hectic side with this job due to finish on the 22nd.
I haven't been able to even look at the IC thread for a few days but I think it's obviously Ben would be opening up with the .50 cal. Firing of GPMGs is also advised if to do nothing more than make the pilot think twice.

As an interesting note, I recently read in the US tank manual (FM something or other) that the main gun of MBTs (M60, M1 Abrams, etc) can be used to engage slow flying aircraft such as helicopters. With that in mind, it makes the use of unguided rockets all that more attractive provided they can be fired at close range, i.e. less than a hundred metres.

Note also that although rockets such as the M72 and RPG can be fired at moving targets (tanks, APCs, etc moving at less than about 50kph/30mph), it's not recommended unless practically standing on top of the target.
Fusilier
GM, 327 posts
Your Guide
Wed 22 Oct 2008
at 16:18
  • msg #973

Re: Hind

Hey all,

My vacation has come to a close. I'll be flying out today so I won't be able to post for a little over 48 hours.
Fusilier
GM, 329 posts
Your Guide
Mon 27 Oct 2008
at 13:53
  • msg #974

Re: Hind

Hello again. I'm back and eager to be getting back into the game.

I've been building up some more plot related material (I haven't been able to use most of it) and look forward to increasing the difficulty or challenges in the near future. I don't want things to develop into simply just "random" encounters. I've left Doyle heading for Gdansk in case you ever return that way (enabling the storyline I had developed for there). But don't mind accommodating to whichever direction you wish to take.

Also, please welcome Dakota_CZ who will be playing Jan Krejcik. He is pleased that you didn't kill him before he got to post.
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:55, Mon 27 Oct 2008.
Jan Krejcik
player, 1 post
Kapitan
Army Aviation (Czech)
Mon 27 Oct 2008
at 18:45
  • msg #975

Re: Hind

Yeah I'm glad I didn't get blown up either (it was never certain that I wouldn't :P  )

Good to be here and hope to bring much to the campaign...

FYI: For general posting info/timing I am on CET (GMT+1).
This message was last edited by the player at 18:46, Mon 27 Oct 2008.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 216 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Mon 27 Oct 2008
at 22:18
  • msg #976

Re: Hind

Welcome, I reckoned that the Czech version of Lord Flash Heart had to be a PC! Ask the GM if we get to keep the Hind. Pretty please, huh, GM?
Tom P. Kelly
player, 79 posts
Spec4
Medic (US)
Mon 27 Oct 2008
at 22:57
  • msg #977

Re: Hind

Czech eh? That's interesting, I live in Masaryktown, FL.
Jan Krejcik
player, 2 posts
Kapitan
Army Aviation (Czech)
Mon 27 Oct 2008
at 23:09
  • msg #978

Re: Hind

Wow really? Parada. It is a good person (and somehow strange place though) to name a city after :)

and lol @ your post. He is a hardcore soldier.
Helmut Meyer
player, 192 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Tue 28 Oct 2008
at 02:44
  • msg #979

Re: Hind

Hello and welcome.
Helmut Meyer
player, 194 posts
Unteroffizier
PanzerPionier (Germany)
Tue 28 Oct 2008
at 04:01
  • msg #980

Re: Hind

Tom P. Kelly:
"Try anything funny and I'll shoot yer goddamned head right off them funny-lookin' shoulders!"


Is that from something? Like a movie or book? It seems very familiar for some reason. Funny too.
Jan Krejcik
player, 4 posts
Kapitan
Army Aviation (Czech)
Tue 28 Oct 2008
at 10:05
  • msg #981

Re: Hind

John Jameson McCarthy:
Welcome, I reckoned that the Czech version of Lord Flash Heart had to be a PC! Ask the GM if we get to keep the Hind. Pretty please, huh, GM?


lol what is Lord Flash Heart?

and 25mm round vs Hind is not so good... although its armor + bubble cockpit can withstand rounds of .50 cal/12.7mm pretty good although its tail has far less armor.
Stone
player, 156 posts
Private
Infantry (Australian/US)
Tue 28 Oct 2008
at 11:18
  • msg #982

Re: Hind

Jan Krejcik:
<quote John Jameson McCarthy>

lol what is Lord Flash Heart?


From Rowan Atkinsons "Black Adder  II", i believe.  Flash by name, flash by nature!
Marc St.Gil
player, 143 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Tue 28 Oct 2008
at 11:29
  • msg #983

Re: Hind

Character
Lord Flashheart is boisterous, arrogant and appears very attractive to all the women he comes in contact with. He is extremely popular amongst his peers, and immediately becomes the centre of attention whenever he enters a room. The two Flashhearts are stereotypes of a certain kind of hero (the Elizabethan swashbuckler and the World War I Royal Flying Corps flying ace, respectively), slanted to emphasise the negative qualities associated with such characters such as excessive pride, smugness, sexism and arrogance.

His catchphrase is to shout "Woof!" or "Let's do-oo-ooooo it!" very loudly, whilst thrusting his pelvis suggestively. He commonly uses sexual innuendoes in ordinary conversation, for example, "Am I pleased to see you, or did I just put a canoe in my pocket?"
Jan Krejcik
player, 5 posts
Kapitan
Army Aviation (Czech)
Tue 28 Oct 2008
at 12:45
  • msg #984

Re: Hind

In reply to Marc St.Gil (msg #983):

very good then. will note to add in a pelvic thrust now and again :P
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 218 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Tue 28 Oct 2008
at 12:57
  • msg #985

Re: Hind

"Woof, woof!"
Tom P. Kelly
player, 80 posts
Spec4
Medic (US)
Tue 28 Oct 2008
at 23:32
  • msg #986

Re: Hind

In reply to Helmut Meyer (msg #980):

Not that I know of...but thanks anyways! I always try to be cinematic in my character freakouts.
Jan Krejcik
player, 8 posts
Kapitan
Army Aviation (Czech)
Wed 29 Oct 2008
at 14:45
  • msg #987

Re: Hind

btw if Im breaking pace or destroying any sort of flow just shoot my character or knock him out. As a new face in a long running game you can RP him out, take him or leave him. Theirs no pressure or obligation.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 84 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Wed 29 Oct 2008
at 17:42
  • msg #988

Re: Hind

KILL HIM!  KILL ZE FOREIGNER!
Marc St.Gil
player, 144 posts
Staff Sgt
Marine Armor (US)
Wed 29 Oct 2008
at 18:50
  • msg #989

Re: Hind

He is making threatening jestures with his pelvis!!!! Quick, shoot him! It's the only way to be sure.
Jan Krejcik
player, 9 posts
Kapitan
Army Aviation (Czech)
Wed 29 Oct 2008
at 19:16
  • msg #990

Re: Hind

GM I wish to roll dice to charm them with his pelvis :P

Edit: Maybe I'll hold back b/c regardless of whether Jan succeeds or not I am sure Varis will roll dice for his foot to not charm his pelvis... :(
This message was last edited by the player at 19:24, Wed 29 Oct 2008.
John Jameson McCarthy
player, 220 posts
Major
Cav Scout (US)
Wed 29 Oct 2008
at 19:21
  • msg #991

Re: Hind

If he starts that, I'm shooting him, 250 times, at least, its the only way to be sure.

On a serious note, way to join the game, Jan! You have my applause, even if the boys do shoot you...
Varis Babicevs
player, 106 posts
Auxiliary
Scout/Translator (US)
Thu 30 Oct 2008
at 01:26
  • msg #992

Re: Hind

I hope Varis isn't turning anybody off. He's really a pretty good natured guy. But almost being run over by Jordan- with Jordan's one finger salute adding insult to near injury- has Varis rather angry. With all of the tension- missing his chance to enjoy Damien's "wares", the river crossing, the Hind, and all of that- he just really needs to blow off a little steam. Which, for Varis, usually means beating someone up.

As his player, I want ya'll to know that his behavior is more meant to be comical than belligerent.

If his antics are bothering people, I'm fully willing to tone it down a bit.
Oskar Friedmann
player, 85 posts
Staff Sergeant
Special Forces (US)
Thu 30 Oct 2008
at 01:39
  • msg #993

Re: Hind

I think its complete lollerskates and I heartily condone it.  The end of the world as we know it should be marked by anarchism and chaos, and Varis' cheap shot to the prisoners is a blow not only for joyful violence but also verisimilitude.
Tom Handley
player, 133 posts
Spec4
Infantry (US)
Thu 30 Oct 2008
at 03:57
  • msg #994

M113

I seem to recall that the M113 I once saw at a National Guard exhibit at a fair had a rifle rack inside.  Am I imagining this, or is that indeed a feature of the '113?
Jan Krejcik
player, 10 posts
Kapitan
Army Aviation (Czech)
Thu 30 Oct 2008
at 07:02
  • msg #995

Re: M113

so Krejcik was taken a long but did you guys search him or tie his hands or is he just in the Bradley now preparing advances on Gideon?
Fusilier
GM, 331 posts
Your Guide
Thu 30 Oct 2008
at 08:57
  • msg #996

Maps

Ok everyone. I'm pushing past the Hind bit in hopes of getting everyone's interest back on track. I've updated the maps, but we could use a little input on our short term goals (within say a couple hours of game time) - I mean routes, details, or a change in the coarse of action. Right now only Stone has been really saying anything, and I don't want JJM to have the burden all to himself. I would be helpful he we got some feedback on how we want to go about doing things in the next little while.

Please remember. The PCs are in the driver's seat. I'd rather not be making group decisions. And if things are going too slow (nothing to post about) - your PC can get things moving too.

Closing this OOC thread to start a new one.
Sign In