The Expanded Universe is, as I assume most of you are aware, the term used for pretty much anything Star Wars that isn't the six movies - video games, novels, animated TV shows, and even roleplaying materials all come under this header.  So, with that in mind, what are your thoughts on the EU?


Personally, I'd say I'm a 'novice' to the EU - I've played the heck out of both KotOR games (which are what made me interested in an SW RPG in the first place), and have finished exactly one SW novel, Darth Bane: Path of Destruction.  A great read, in my opinion, and I am definitely looking forward to the paperback edition of the sequel being released over here.  I'm also an avid reader of both the KotOR and Legacy comic books published by Dark Horse, as well as some of the older Republic comics.


This message was last edited by the GM at 03:52, Sun 24 Aug 2008.

I like EUs, they, well, Expand the Universe. More stories, more ideas. It's all a good thing (provided they're written well).

Let's see...

I used to read the novels. A long time ago I read the novelisations, which were pretty much novels in their own right, IIRC. I used to read the other novels out of my local libaries. I read the Thrawn trilogy, I think I read Truce At Bakura, and I got about 1 or 2 books into the Jedi Academy trilogy before I couldn't find the next ones and pretty much lost interest in keeping track of them. I dislike trilogies for this reason. I also read a few books from a young readers series (Jedi Prince series I think). I might have read some others, all post original trilogy stuff. I have Young Jedi Knights: Shadow Academy laying around too from somewhere, but haven't read it.

I found a few comics too. One about droids, another set during one of the ancient eras.

But this was all in the mid-90s, and I can barely remember a thing from any of them.

More recently, I've played Knights Of The Old Republic 1, though I'm rusty on the details. I want to pick up Kotor 2 some time. And I've played Jedi Knight 2, Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy, and quite enjoyed them.

I have fond childhood memories of reading Ewok comics. It was years before I ever realised that they also appear in Star Wars. It was like a cross-over. And I think I once saw the Droids cartoon movie.

I'm a bit familiar with the EU, just don't ask me about any of it. :)

I've been reccomended a series of books, I think it's called Rogue Squadron?  Anyone here read those?  I'm going through audiobooks of Harry Potter (currently at OotP), but after I'm done with those, I'll need something new to read, and I think it might be time to return to the galaxy far, far away. . .


Also, since BadCatMan just reminded me - JK2: Jedi Outcast is pretty much the only FPS I've gotten to work on my laptop, ever!  Actually, it's probably the only game with 3D graphics at all that's working on here, sadly...  I miss my KotOR games.  :-(

I've read quite a lot of the EU, though I sadly realize that it's only a small fraction of what is really out there.

Books I've read:
Darth Bane: Rule of Two
Darth Bane: Path of Destruction (both of these were exceptional books)
Cloak of Deception
Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter
Republic Commando: Hard Contact (great read if you're interested in clones)
Shatterpoint  (one of the best Clone Wars Novels, IMO)
The Cestus Deception
Republic Commando: Triple Zero
Jedi Trial
Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
Labyrinth of Evil
Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader
Shadow's of the Empire
Tales From Jabba's Palace
Truce at Bakura
The Mandalorian Armor
Slave Ship
Hard Merchandise
Rogue Squadron
Wedge's Gamble
The Courtship of Princess Leia
Tatooine Ghost
Heir to the Empire
Dark Force Rising
The Last Command
Jedi Search
Betrayal (This whole series has been a great read)
Bloodlines
Tempest
Exile
Sacrifice
Inferno
Fury
Revelation
Invincible (currently reading)

Books I own and haven't gotten to yet:
Episode I: Phantom Menace
Rogue Planet
Outbound Flight
The Approaching Storm
Episode II: Attack of the Clones
Death Star
Allegiance
Dark Apprentice (currently semi-reading)
Champions of the Force
Specter of the Past
Vision of the Future
Force Heretic I: Remnant
Force Heretic II: Refugee
Force Heretic III: Reunion

Now that I've got the list all typed down, it's kind of depressing seeing how many books I already own that I haven't read yet, hah!

Only expanded universe I've really read is the Bounty Hunter wars, but they were okay. Not overly gripping if I remember right, but okay.

Really?  I tried getting into it, but it lost my interest about half-way through the first book. . .  of course, having not read any New Jedi Order/New Republic stuff before, I'm not really familiar with the characters and storylines that have been going on, so I figure that might have something to do with it.  Much prefer the Legacy comic books, then, which keeps getting better with every issue.  :-)

I've never read any of the New Jedi Order novels either and I just couldn't set down any of the Legacy of the Force books once I started reading them.

Does playing the video game count?  :p

Played the game. The Falcon is silly in that game. And so slooow...

I only got it and played it for my son.  It's still around here somewhere.  :p

I've read a little of the EU stuff...mostly stuff written about it to be honest.  It looks liek there are some cool ideas there, but I have to admit to being a bit overwhelmed by the idea of actually trying to read it all and get a good grip on what is really happening, especially with the number of books and inevitable inconsistencies caused by that many authors playing in the same playground.

I am more into the material that covers the Old Republic, though I'm not certain that really counts as EU or not.

Anything written about Star Wars that isn't Episode I-VI is the Expanded Universe.

That means comic books, video games, graphic novels, etc are all expanded universe.

Rouge Squadron was a great read for me when they came out (this was Jr High/HS time)  Most of them are very fast paced and engaging as I recall, though be prepared...  there’s like a dozen of them :p

I've read pretty much everything that was published between 1994 and 2002... and nothing since then :p  after graduating HS and entering the "real world" I haven't had time...  A one-off book based on a character from the rouge squadron books called "I, Jedi" was a personal favorite when it came out, one of the few EU books I saw fit to shell out the bucks for the hardcover (the other one was "Vector Prime", which IMHO is better than all it's followers combined)  I think I stopped reading the Vong era books somewhere around 10-12, its hard to remember exactly...  "The Truce at Bakura" holds a special place in my heart as it was the very first EU book I ever read.  there's so many more that are now packed away that I can't possibly remember them all...  basically if it was published in the nineties or early 2000's I read it! :p :)

So, I just read through the new Force Unleashed comic book, which reveals the 'canon' ending for the video game (though I assume you will be able to go your own way in the game itself, much like in KotOR)...  and, well, it was pretty cool, all things concidered.  And assuming the game gets at least half-way decent reviews, I might just pick up the PS2 version when the price begins to drop.  I'm not going to write too much more about it, because I don't want to spoil it for anyone, but I will say that I'm really looking forward to the TFU campaign guide now, heh.  :p

I heard the Force Unleashed is a linear game, and that's a big minus in my book. It might have a good story and if so, I might buy it.

It can't be completely Linear, since it's been advertised as allowing both Light and Dark-side routes.

*grumbles about sudden inclusion of the Light Side... again. Has been doing that since she first heard about it*

I was gonna say I've read a bunch of the books, and I'm a big reader, but I don't think I even qualify after rallenc...

In reply to GM Palpatine (msg #3):

The Rogue Squadron series is fantastic.  As is the Grand Admiral Thrawn series, the Admiral Daala series, Hand of Thrawn, and Legacy of the Force.  Wasn't too fond of the New Jedi Order, but you've got to read NJO to really understand a lot of what happens in LotF.

I personally don't like much of the stuff after Episode VI, except for the graphic novel "Dark Empire" by Darkhorse.  But even then it was interesting in it's own right, and I don't think I would choose to run or play in any era beyond the Rebellion era.  That means I game (pun intended) for anything from Episode I-VI and before that to include KotOR.

I love EU, that's what makes Star Wars belong to the fans more than Lucas now-a-days.  It's where the games (i.e., RPG, computer, etc.) fall, in those stories that aren't told by the movies that are just as epic, and are behind the scenes of the larger films.

It's what makes the universe of Star Wars just that, a universe of stories.

I hope they come out with episodes VII-IX.  If they did it now, the actors would be the right ages for the NJO era.

I doubt that would ever happen - but if it did, you can bet it would invalidate most of the EU material from post-RotJ.  We're getting a live-action TV show, though, taking place in the time between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope, which is probably as close we'll get to new (non-animated) movies.

Well, in my mind, that would just complete Star Wars.  The movies, anyway.

if you think about it, Episodes I, II, and III, though they came first, brought the story back into full circle. It wasn't about luke skywalker or Leia or Han and Chewie. It was about Anakin Skywalker. I don't know that this was the original intent of GL because you hardly see any at all of him during episodes IV-VI.

Once you add in I-III, though, it makes everything about Anakin. You've got his discovery, his release from slavery, his rise to power and his power consumes him and he falls to the dark side only to be redeemed once again to save the lives of his own children whom he didn't even know he had until a few years previous. In my opinion, if GL went on with more movies past episode VI, it would just be for money and it wouldn't be in the theme of the story already told.

I have read just about as much EU stuff as I can. Own a good majority of the books from the end of RoTJ up until the New Jedi Order series starts. Own all of it and in the process of getting all of the Legacy of the Force books.

Comics wise I have the first sets of trades for the KOTOR series, the majority of the X-Wing: Rogue Squadron series (the only issues I need are the first 4 or 5, and they don't exist in Trade), and a few odds and ends trade paperbacks as well. Have to say that the Rogue Squadron books and I, Jedi are some of my favorites.

Have played both KOTOR games, enjoyed them both.

I would have to agree that GL should not do a set of movies that would follow RoTJ. For one, to agree with rallenc82, it does seem as though with the addition of Eps I-III, the focus of the entire series shifts to that of Anakin. And with RoTJ, his story ends (for the most part). Really the only thing they could do would be similar to what's already been done in some of the EU books, where Leia begins to embrace her Jedi heritage as her father's ghost begs for her forgiveness, and she does so, even going so far as to name one of her sons after him. But this is really just an extension of his redemption from the end of RoTJ, and as such (IMO) wouldn't make for a great movie.

Second, I like the EU too much to see it tossed aside. Especially since it's in that "quasi" canon state (basically if GL feels like he has a story to tell past the era of RoTJ, he will, and the continuity of the EU would be tossed out). Unless that's changed recently.

I think I would have to agree that focus of the movies shifted to Anakin and his story effectively dead-ends at the end of Episode VI.

Could there be movies set after that, I think yes, though they would be far better off not being Episodes VII-IX.  I think they would need to be a movies telling a story set in the Star Wars setting that happens to have occurred after the events in Episode VI.

On the other hand, as mentioned by others, that sort of thing does pose a lot of issues regarding the already published post-VI EU materials and would serve to muddy those waters even more than they are already are so I'd think it would probably be better that it not be done unless its directly based on some of that material.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:32, Mon 08 Sept 2008.

Yep, like the Clone Wars.

If you take that approach, I full-heartedly agree with you.  Anakin's story is over.  However, I think they could find enough appropriate material to continue the stories of Luke and Leia.  But, once again, better of done as other movies....

Quick question for you guys, and I put it in the EU as it deals with Corellia and such.

How much would a Corellian Sand Panther pelt, illegally taken, be worth?  How about an albino Sand Panther pelt?

Anyone pick up the Force Unleashed console game?  I gave in to the Dark Side and bought a copy for the Wii the other day...haven't gotten too far into it yet but it is pretty decent so far.  So far it is more along the lines of the JK2 games with a linear story rather than the more 'fluid' story line found in the KOTOR games.  The pure collateral damage you inflict using your force powers is pretty impressive.

Graphics are pretty decent on the Wii, though it does make me curious just how slick they must look on the XBOX360 and the PS3.

the graphics look amazing on the PS3. I break things for no other reason than to watch them shatter.

i haven't picked it up yet. I'm making myself read the Force Unleashed novelization before i play the game.

I'm fully expecting it to look slightly less amazing on the PS2, but as that's the only console I have (and I can hardly afford to buy a new one), that's the game I'm getting - preordered about a week ago, for just over half the price I can expect to have to pay in stores here, and it should be here in a day or two, hopefully.  I'm pretty sure I'll go through the 'canon' LS ending first, before going DS and conquering the galaxy, and whatnot.  ;-)

I hear you on not being able to afford a new console. Somebody had to die before I could afford mine.

My mum recently won AU$1000 for being the best at her job in the state - and decided to buy a Wii for the keep-fit games.

So how is Force Unleashed on the Wii? :) Is the lightsaber combat good with the Wii-controller?

It's pretty decent.  You don't literally control every move the saber (that wouldn't work real well), but you are able to trigger the general moves you want.  For instance, moving the wii remote left-to-right triggers a left-to-right stroke of your saber.

The biggest thing I am having a hard time mastering is flowing through all the different types of force abilities available to you.  Its kind of like some of the fight games: "do a three-swing saber combo followed by pressing A and moving the wii remote down".  On the other hand, I have been able to progress through the game and have fun even if I can't always get the fanciest moves to work.

The thing I find the most frustrating is the camera control.  Visually, I keep expecting the game to behave like JK2 when Katarn is using his lightsaber... basically an 3rd person FPS with fairly tight camera lock on you.  Its actually a lot looser than that with your character being able to move around on the screen console/fight-game style with the camera whipping around to reposition behind you after a brief delay.

So you're an Aussie as well? Good to see another mate from our drought-ravenged land.

I heard combat was the best on Wii. It's a pretty repetitive game and linear game though. KOTOR is fun as, if a bit slow and boring at times.

Ugh, comboes and roving cameras. :( Though the lightsaber combat does sound fun.

So who all saw the first two episodes of the Star Wars: The Clone Wars animated series that was on Friday night?

What are people's thoughts about them?

Having not seen the movie (yet), I wasn't really sure what I was getting into, watching them, but...  I found them surprisingly good.  I like the animation style, at least when it comes to the clones, droids, and most aliens involved.  I don't like Ahsoka very much, so the first episode was thus my favorite of the two.  :p

Decent show, and I'll probably catch some more episodes later on...  if I remember to.

Having finally gotten a chance to play through the PS2 version of The Force Unleashed, I have to say...  while it's flawed, it's pretty darn fun, and throwing one Stormtrooper into another never gets old!  :D  Didn't like how, after beating the game, you couldn't just play whichever mission you wanted to, though - you have to start over again to replay them, in order.  Since there were some levels I didn't care much for (both Felucia-stages come to mind here...), that hurt it's ability to be played more than once for me.  Also, dissapointing like nothing else, was the scene with the falling Star Destroyer...  which in the PS2 version is relegated to a single, short, non-interactive cutscene.  Urgh.

Still, despite flaws, it was a fun game, at least as long as you're fighting the 'nonheroic' minions.  Bosses tended to be pretty hard to actually hurt, what with being able to block pretty much every kind of attack you've got (throwing stuff at them was my most succesful attack, but that requires time, room, and enough stuff laying about to throw), but at the same time, I only died once while playing the game (in the fight against two Rancors), so I can't call it hard, as much as frustrating to take on the bosses.


...but, despite all that - fun!  :D

In reply to PC rallenc82 (msg #37):

I *loved* the Clone Wars animated series.  The movie looks pretty dire, though.

I had a very different idea of what that game would be like, based on the marketing and promotion that was done before the demo was released.  I was honestly expecting more of a Star Wars roleplaying game, similar to Knights of the Old Republic, that took the Force-based combat up to 11.

What we got instead was a purely linear action-adventure story that was extremely fun to play that had an intriguing story in the background that unfolded like a movie in between the levels of Force-killing.

I'm not opposed to that type of game, but it was jarring to realize that that's what I was playing, as opposed to the RPG.

While I liked the story very much, I had a big problem with it; namely, you know going in what the outcome will be, because it takes place between Episodes III and IV.  The apprentice will not perform an action that would make the setup of A New Hope radically different; no ripping the Death Star apart with the Force, no murdering Palpatine, nothing like that.  The one meaningful choice you get to make in the story; picking which final boss to battle, leads to two different endings; both of which mean that the main character either

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dies

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or

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gets turned into a Sith stakler.

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  Neither of which are particularly satisfying endings considering the extent to which the writers get you emotionally invested in the main character.

I'm guessing that the Light Side ending is considered the canonical one.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:14, Sun 05 Oct 2008.

Yes.

And, I disagree - the Apprentice does accomplish something that will dramatically alter the future of the galaxy:

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Without 'Starkiller', there wouldn't have been a Rebel Alliance, as it was him personally who rallied the Emperor's enemies, then helped them escape certain death at Palpatine's hands.  He showed the galaxy that the Empire was vulnerable, and without him and his heroic sacrifice in the end, the Dark Times would have lasted much, much longer.  He also died as a free man, not just Vader's slave, and so I don't see the ending as not being satisfying enough.  It's a very classic redemption-story, and since we always knew he wouldn't stay around for the actual Rebellion-era, it was probably as close to a happy ending as we could get.  Basically, you can't expect them to radically change the story of the movies, which are the highest level of canon Lucas has for his universe - this was always about bridging the gap between the two trilogies, not about changing them, and the story did that just fine in my opinion.


That's my thoughts on it, anyway.

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I made myself read the Force Unleashed book before I allowed myself ot buy the game (which I'm playing through in my spare time). I really liked the story behind the book. It wasn't exceptionally well written. I think they rushed too much through the story for my tastes, but it was a good story none the less.

Personally I watched the trailer for "Force Unleashed" with my nephew (the game part).  Our conversation basically went like this:

Me: "So, Vader's secret apprentice.  Since he doesn't, you know, appear anyway this guy must be pretty freakin' invisible."
Nephew: "Yeah, I think it'll be a stealth game kind of like Metal Gear, minimal overt force use and sneaking around so the Emperor doesn't find out you exist."
*In game, the apprentice grabs a Star Destroyer and slams it into the planet.*
Both: Our lower jaws fall off and then we burst out laughing.
Me: "The Emperor will never suspect a thing with an apprentice this good at keeping his presence hidden."

Unfortunately I just haven't been able to take it seriously since.  The sheer amount of hilarity we had at the trailer causes me to laugh at Force Unleashed no matter what happens.

I first encountered TFU at Game City last year, where I attended a seminar about the physics engine (Euphoria, it's crazy!)

I fell in love with the game then. I haven't got to play it yet, but as soon as I get paid I plan on going down to Game and picking up a copy to play on my She'enedra's Wii. heh.

Starkiller makes me laugh. I guess it was just destiny for one of Luke's family to have that name! (In the original draft, it was "The Adventures of the Starkiller: The Star Wars", with the main characters Luke and Deak Starkiller...)

The game seems so last gen.  Graphics wise and play ability in the Wii version seems to chaotic.  No skill or grace.

But...  they're not family.  :p

The story is definately one that has been 'wedged' into the middle of already established events with some of the inevitable awkwardness associated with such things.  Overall, I think they did an decent job of it in general.

[Possible game spoilers below]

As far as Starkiller remaining Vader's 'secret' apprentice, his being a hidden from the emperor actually doesn't last that long and depending on how it is interpreted was all a fabrication for the apprentice's benefit anyways.

You know, the Emperor had tons of Dark Jedi apprentices thanks to the expanded universe. Mara Jade and a bunch others that I can't remember off the top of my head. My guess is that the Emperor approved for Vader to have an apprentice as Vader was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so he could have an "apprentice" while the Emperor was something else, so he got to violate the "sith" rules.

The way I read it in the novel/comic, and saw it in the game, I believe that the whole thing was Palpatine's plan all along, and that the Apprentice was always meant to unite the Emperor's enemies, only for Vader to show up to arrest them.  Vader flat-out told him that he'd lied to the Apprentice from the beginning, after all.  Besides, Vader was never half the schemer that Palpatine was, anyway.  :p

Vader was a blunt instrument, hack & slash kind of guy. If he was a better schemer he would have helped Windu kill Palpatine a long time ago. He was a tool, albeit a very powerful tool, but still just a tool at the end of the day.

He couldn't kill Palpatine in the office in place of killing Windu because Palpatine was the one that could help him save Padme's life. It wasn't until after Padme died and Skywalker was encased in his black armor that he realized he'd been used.

Well, there was actually never any violation of Darth Bane's whole Rule of Two thing in this scenario.  I haven't seen much of the Apprentice himself, but it doesn't seem like he's really been taught much in the way of Sith apprenticeship.    Then again, I'm not sure specifically what he's been taught, so I suppose that could be a violation.

As for the Emperor's little pet Force-users, none of them were trained in Sith arts except for Vader, so none of them were apprentices either.  The Hands were just extremely skilled ninja types who happened to have darn good Force potential powered up by the Palpatine's neato beans Force links.  They were elite commandos with the Force, not Sith apprentices.

Yeah, he can cheat all he wants.  He's Palpatine.

Yeah, but only a moron would have believed Palpatine. Hmmm...the evil sith lord secretly controlling the senate and bringing about the dark side is promising me the one thing that would ever sway me to the dark side...hmmm. Maybe this is a trick...

If Anakin was a bit smarter he might have learned the lessons of humility that everyone kept trying to teach him, and if he had learned humility, he might have been able to defer judgement to others, like that the sith are bad and shouldn't be trusted. that slaughtering the younglings might not mean that Padme's life will be saved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragic_hero

Pretty sure that's the point.

It's one thing for a tragic hero to bring about his own downfall, or for him to trust a friend who backstabs him, but come on now. Anakin had to have stepped over 3 dead jedi master bodies to get into that room (remember the buddies that Windu had with him?) and he sees Palpatine shooting dark side lightning at Windu...

Anakin was just never one to be able to put 2 and 2 together...

At that point, Anakin ALREADY knew that Palpatine was the second sith. The reason Windu and the other three Masters were there was because Anakin had gone and informed the Council of what Palpatine had told him directly. Palpatine told him, "yes, I'm a sith, and I can help save your wife who you know is going to die."

What choice would you make if you were in his position? I can't say that I wouldn't make the same decision considering all the circumstances.

I"m just saying that Anakin wasn't the brightest bulb of the bunch.

Based on?

First and only human to win the Boonta Eve Classic? Built his own 3-P0 droid? Both of those were by the time he was 9 years old.

I won't say that destroying a droid control ship was intelligent, because that was mostly dumb luck.

Built and modified several starfighters while he was just a padawan.


I don't think it's a matter of being dim or not. It's just a bunch of orchestrated circumstances through out Anakins life that led him down a path that he couldn't turn away from.

In reply to PC rallenc82 (msg #59):

I'd argue that while he was brilliant with tech stuff and physically well-disciplined, his emotional intelligence was a hair's-breadth less than Jar-Jar's.

He was a slave to a Hutt and then a Toydarian until he was 9 years old.

He wins the Boonta Eve (as stated before). Blows up a droid control ship all alone (which saved the lives of everyone on Naboo arguably). Then he's told that he's the Chosen One, allowed to join the Jedi under extremely special circumstances. All this before he hit puberty.

His mother is murdered by Tuskens when he could have saved her had he acted on his visions quicker. He blames himself for the only other person in his family dying, the person that stayed behind and let him go on to become one of the most famous Jedi in the order, stayed a slave so her son could be free. And he let her die.

Then you toss in Anakins feats and accomplishments during the Clone Wars (including his marriage that he would have to keep secret otherwise he would be kicked from the Jedi Order, almost singlehandedly saving the planet of Praesitlyn, becoming a Jedi Knight without having to go through the Knight Trials, becoming the youngest Jedi to be appointed to the Jedi Council), and you've got a powerful young jedi who is justifiably the greatest Jedi to ever live. He was cocky. He was emotional.

Yeah, his "relationship" with Padme was weird and stalkerish.



Yep, Anakin's a tool alright. ;)

Yeah, but that doesn't automatically mean he had to be a tard about it. Then again, Obi-Wan was partially to blame for not laying the smack down on Anakin. Anakin was to blame, but Obi-Wan was a total enabler for Anakin's irritating attitude.

I can't help but blame Anakin for leaving his Mom in Slavery for apparently at least a decade after leaving, and not heading back to see her until he had a vision about it later.

Granted the Jedi probably discouraged it but he wasn't under Obi-Wan's control every minute, he couldn't ever find a free weekend to rent a shuttle and offer Watto his special "no lightsaber's through your head in exchange for my mom" deal?

Rousseau says that the real tutor is the father. Reciprocation then casts the tutor in the role of father. An apprentice' Master is 'like a father to them', since the apprentice is the Master's heir in at least one sense.

Therefore, Starkiller and Skywalker are, in one sense of the word, brothers.

But if you're going to accept the 'Master = father' theory there, then Obi-Wan is more Luke's father than Vader ever was.  :p

*nods*

Which, in a twisted way, means that Vader commited fratricide on the death star.

Twice, because on tha theory, Palpatine was Vader's "father" and Vader offed him too. Hmm... it's interesting that the Death Star had so many usurpings.

Vader kills his former master
Vader kills his current master
Luke kills Vader (indirectly, it's a bit of a stretch I know, but there's an odd symmatry to this)

Nah - Vader was killed by Palpatine's Force Lightning, which shorted out the systems in his suit that kept him alive.

Yeah, but Luke caused Vader to betray Palpatine, hence the indirectly part.

Luke redemed Vader, but it was still his own choice to pick up Palpatine and toss him down the reactor core - in no way would Luke be responsible for that death.  To be fair, he did kill a whole bunch of people when he blew up the first Death Star, though!  :D

In response to that, see my latest post in "Things Which Amuse Me"

lulz. That reminds me of the Clerks talk about independent contracters on the second death star.

"You think your average stormtrooper knows how to install a toilet?"
This message was last edited by the player at 15:45, Wed 08 Oct 2008.

Hell, the contractors working on Death Star II aren't the biggest fatality you would expect from its destruction.  How about a holocaust on Endor?

http://theforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html

There's an interesting discussion about the Word of God statement on the matter, which basically stated:  "It didn't happen."

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmw...ain/NoEndorHolocaust

http://www.swrpgnetwork.com/files/endor - a rebuttal to this by Gary M. Sarli.

I wasn't very impressed by the rebuttal, mostly because it relies heavily on special pleading, and uses as evidence that the DSII didn't harm Endor in the continuity of the Expanded Universe on the basis of future works mentioning events on Endor.  This is just as easily explained as a continuity error as by an elaborate justification involving wormholes and blackholes that just so happened to allow for an unforseen consequence to develop.

Seeing the devastation of war on a planetary scale following the destruction of the DSII doesn't fit thematically with the space-opera tone of Star Wars, so it is rightly excluded.  However, it is an interesting thought experiment for people like Kevin Smith and whoever it was that first came up with the idea of the Endor Holocaust to consider how the Expanded Universe might have looked given a different theme.

There's a million and one explanations why or why not Endor should be destroyed. Maybe all the debris got caught into a non-decaying orbit and Endor now has an asteroid belt :D

Precisely: Anakin was emotionally stunted.  His circumstances just didn't allow him to develop emotionally in a healthy and mature fashion.  Not that I think his fall to the Dark Side was particularly well handled by Lucas and company, but at least it makes sense to me that he would as stupidly as he did whenever there were strong emotions involved.

I guess that is one way to look at it. He wasn't too bad but he took stupid pills every time he had strong emotions.

Over at TVtropes, they call that holding the idiot ball.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotBall

Clone Wars S01E07: See some hot droid on droid action :D In the end when R2 is fighting that other droid, forget for a moment that they're enemies and think that they're "close friends" and it takes a very twisted S&M turn

Clone Wars S01E08: They didn't have one or even two...but several dozen opportunities to kill Jar Jar and it would have been a "noble sacrifice"...instead he bumbles and survives. *sigh*

*sigh* Lightning Reflexes as a racial trait.

*shakes his fist

CURSE YOU!

You know, we did see Jar-Jar in Return of the Sith, even if only very briefly, so I'd say his chances of dying during the Clone Wars to be nonexistant...  unless they give us a whole new meaning of Clone Wars.  *shudders*

why do you say such nightmares?

*shudder*

Anyway, I'm re-watching the 1st season of the clone wars and for no reason I will continue to provide commentary on the episodes.

Continuing on with S1E08, I cannot stop staring at the Rodian's eyes. I mean seriously it's like a galaxy in there.


This message was last edited by the player at 15:50, Mon 23 Apr 2012.

S01E09: A classic reason why you never brag about how awesome you are or how much you're about to get paid to a Sith.

They tend to find it easier to just murder their subordinates rather then dig around their pockets for some loose change.

This is why there are no bums on Korriban :)

I finally read Apocalypse.

Not pleased with the way it went. Ah well.

Don't want to spoil it...

S01E??

A bit of an irritating plot device: LOL, JEDI GET DRUGGED DRINK!


A) At the end of the first episode it has them avoiding getting drugged (but apparantly a webcomic retcons that)

B) Jedi are supposed to be highly resistent to drugs and poisons.

C) If they detected it the first time...why were they surprised when they got drugged AGAIN...

ugh the episode is infuriating.


Not to mention the dumb antics of the supposedly smart Hando (sp?). So he captures Dooku in a pretty decent way. He is smart enough to NOT try and ransom Dooku back to the Seperatists because they would just land droids and kill him. So he ransoms to the Republic for a very sizable amount of money, a million credits IN SPICE. He even says that they can sell it back for many times its value so in one easy swoop he just became a multi-millionare.

So when the jedi arrive to inspect the prisoner? He takes them hostage.

/facepalm.

Again, let me repeat: When the republic sends two jedi to take Dooku into custody, he kidnaps them. Sure enough, the three jedi prisoners escape, destroy his army, and bolt. Now he's out a million credits in spice, a base, a pirate gang etc. etc.

He didn't get greedy. He got DUMB!

I understand the point of the episode was to force Dooku & jedi to work together to escape but you could have just re-arranged things and had a fairly clever bad guy.

A) Ransom Dooku.
B) After Republic pays ransom, kidnap all three jedi.
C) Ransom again for even more money!

It's still dumb greed but at least the betrayal makes sense as opposed to kidnapping the people who are going to pay you BEFORE THEY PAY YOU...ugh.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:08, Tue 08 May 2012.