In reply to PC rallenc82 (msg #37):

I *loved* the Clone Wars animated series.  The movie looks pretty dire, though.

I had a very different idea of what that game would be like, based on the marketing and promotion that was done before the demo was released.  I was honestly expecting more of a Star Wars roleplaying game, similar to Knights of the Old Republic, that took the Force-based combat up to 11.

What we got instead was a purely linear action-adventure story that was extremely fun to play that had an intriguing story in the background that unfolded like a movie in between the levels of Force-killing.

I'm not opposed to that type of game, but it was jarring to realize that that's what I was playing, as opposed to the RPG.

While I liked the story very much, I had a big problem with it; namely, you know going in what the outcome will be, because it takes place between Episodes III and IV.  The apprentice will not perform an action that would make the setup of A New Hope radically different; no ripping the Death Star apart with the Force, no murdering Palpatine, nothing like that.  The one meaningful choice you get to make in the story; picking which final boss to battle, leads to two different endings; both of which mean that the main character either

---

Spoiler text: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)
dies

---

or

---

Spoiler text: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)
gets turned into a Sith stakler.

---

  Neither of which are particularly satisfying endings considering the extent to which the writers get you emotionally invested in the main character.

I'm guessing that the Light Side ending is considered the canonical one.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:14, Sun 05 Oct 2008.

Yes.

And, I disagree - the Apprentice does accomplish something that will dramatically alter the future of the galaxy:

---

Spoiler text: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)
Without 'Starkiller', there wouldn't have been a Rebel Alliance, as it was him personally who rallied the Emperor's enemies, then helped them escape certain death at Palpatine's hands.  He showed the galaxy that the Empire was vulnerable, and without him and his heroic sacrifice in the end, the Dark Times would have lasted much, much longer.  He also died as a free man, not just Vader's slave, and so I don't see the ending as not being satisfying enough.  It's a very classic redemption-story, and since we always knew he wouldn't stay around for the actual Rebellion-era, it was probably as close to a happy ending as we could get.  Basically, you can't expect them to radically change the story of the movies, which are the highest level of canon Lucas has for his universe - this was always about bridging the gap between the two trilogies, not about changing them, and the story did that just fine in my opinion.


That's my thoughts on it, anyway.

---

I made myself read the Force Unleashed book before I allowed myself ot buy the game (which I'm playing through in my spare time). I really liked the story behind the book. It wasn't exceptionally well written. I think they rushed too much through the story for my tastes, but it was a good story none the less.

Personally I watched the trailer for "Force Unleashed" with my nephew (the game part).  Our conversation basically went like this:

Me: "So, Vader's secret apprentice.  Since he doesn't, you know, appear anyway this guy must be pretty freakin' invisible."
Nephew: "Yeah, I think it'll be a stealth game kind of like Metal Gear, minimal overt force use and sneaking around so the Emperor doesn't find out you exist."
*In game, the apprentice grabs a Star Destroyer and slams it into the planet.*
Both: Our lower jaws fall off and then we burst out laughing.
Me: "The Emperor will never suspect a thing with an apprentice this good at keeping his presence hidden."

Unfortunately I just haven't been able to take it seriously since.  The sheer amount of hilarity we had at the trailer causes me to laugh at Force Unleashed no matter what happens.

I first encountered TFU at Game City last year, where I attended a seminar about the physics engine (Euphoria, it's crazy!)

I fell in love with the game then. I haven't got to play it yet, but as soon as I get paid I plan on going down to Game and picking up a copy to play on my She'enedra's Wii. heh.

Starkiller makes me laugh. I guess it was just destiny for one of Luke's family to have that name! (In the original draft, it was "The Adventures of the Starkiller: The Star Wars", with the main characters Luke and Deak Starkiller...)

The game seems so last gen.  Graphics wise and play ability in the Wii version seems to chaotic.  No skill or grace.

But...  they're not family.  :p

The story is definately one that has been 'wedged' into the middle of already established events with some of the inevitable awkwardness associated with such things.  Overall, I think they did an decent job of it in general.

[Possible game spoilers below]

As far as Starkiller remaining Vader's 'secret' apprentice, his being a hidden from the emperor actually doesn't last that long and depending on how it is interpreted was all a fabrication for the apprentice's benefit anyways.

You know, the Emperor had tons of Dark Jedi apprentices thanks to the expanded universe. Mara Jade and a bunch others that I can't remember off the top of my head. My guess is that the Emperor approved for Vader to have an apprentice as Vader was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so he could have an "apprentice" while the Emperor was something else, so he got to violate the "sith" rules.

The way I read it in the novel/comic, and saw it in the game, I believe that the whole thing was Palpatine's plan all along, and that the Apprentice was always meant to unite the Emperor's enemies, only for Vader to show up to arrest them.  Vader flat-out told him that he'd lied to the Apprentice from the beginning, after all.  Besides, Vader was never half the schemer that Palpatine was, anyway.  :p

Vader was a blunt instrument, hack & slash kind of guy. If he was a better schemer he would have helped Windu kill Palpatine a long time ago. He was a tool, albeit a very powerful tool, but still just a tool at the end of the day.

He couldn't kill Palpatine in the office in place of killing Windu because Palpatine was the one that could help him save Padme's life. It wasn't until after Padme died and Skywalker was encased in his black armor that he realized he'd been used.

Well, there was actually never any violation of Darth Bane's whole Rule of Two thing in this scenario.  I haven't seen much of the Apprentice himself, but it doesn't seem like he's really been taught much in the way of Sith apprenticeship.    Then again, I'm not sure specifically what he's been taught, so I suppose that could be a violation.

As for the Emperor's little pet Force-users, none of them were trained in Sith arts except for Vader, so none of them were apprentices either.  The Hands were just extremely skilled ninja types who happened to have darn good Force potential powered up by the Palpatine's neato beans Force links.  They were elite commandos with the Force, not Sith apprentices.

Yeah, he can cheat all he wants.  He's Palpatine.

Yeah, but only a moron would have believed Palpatine. Hmmm...the evil sith lord secretly controlling the senate and bringing about the dark side is promising me the one thing that would ever sway me to the dark side...hmmm. Maybe this is a trick...

If Anakin was a bit smarter he might have learned the lessons of humility that everyone kept trying to teach him, and if he had learned humility, he might have been able to defer judgement to others, like that the sith are bad and shouldn't be trusted. that slaughtering the younglings might not mean that Padme's life will be saved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragic_hero

Pretty sure that's the point.

It's one thing for a tragic hero to bring about his own downfall, or for him to trust a friend who backstabs him, but come on now. Anakin had to have stepped over 3 dead jedi master bodies to get into that room (remember the buddies that Windu had with him?) and he sees Palpatine shooting dark side lightning at Windu...

Anakin was just never one to be able to put 2 and 2 together...

At that point, Anakin ALREADY knew that Palpatine was the second sith. The reason Windu and the other three Masters were there was because Anakin had gone and informed the Council of what Palpatine had told him directly. Palpatine told him, "yes, I'm a sith, and I can help save your wife who you know is going to die."

What choice would you make if you were in his position? I can't say that I wouldn't make the same decision considering all the circumstances.

I"m just saying that Anakin wasn't the brightest bulb of the bunch.

Based on?

First and only human to win the Boonta Eve Classic? Built his own 3-P0 droid? Both of those were by the time he was 9 years old.

I won't say that destroying a droid control ship was intelligent, because that was mostly dumb luck.

Built and modified several starfighters while he was just a padawan.


I don't think it's a matter of being dim or not. It's just a bunch of orchestrated circumstances through out Anakins life that led him down a path that he couldn't turn away from.

In reply to PC rallenc82 (msg #59):

I'd argue that while he was brilliant with tech stuff and physically well-disciplined, his emotional intelligence was a hair's-breadth less than Jar-Jar's.

He was a slave to a Hutt and then a Toydarian until he was 9 years old.

He wins the Boonta Eve (as stated before). Blows up a droid control ship all alone (which saved the lives of everyone on Naboo arguably). Then he's told that he's the Chosen One, allowed to join the Jedi under extremely special circumstances. All this before he hit puberty.

His mother is murdered by Tuskens when he could have saved her had he acted on his visions quicker. He blames himself for the only other person in his family dying, the person that stayed behind and let him go on to become one of the most famous Jedi in the order, stayed a slave so her son could be free. And he let her die.

Then you toss in Anakins feats and accomplishments during the Clone Wars (including his marriage that he would have to keep secret otherwise he would be kicked from the Jedi Order, almost singlehandedly saving the planet of Praesitlyn, becoming a Jedi Knight without having to go through the Knight Trials, becoming the youngest Jedi to be appointed to the Jedi Council), and you've got a powerful young jedi who is justifiably the greatest Jedi to ever live. He was cocky. He was emotional.

Yeah, his "relationship" with Padme was weird and stalkerish.



Yep, Anakin's a tool alright. ;)

Yeah, but that doesn't automatically mean he had to be a tard about it. Then again, Obi-Wan was partially to blame for not laying the smack down on Anakin. Anakin was to blame, but Obi-Wan was a total enabler for Anakin's irritating attitude.

I can't help but blame Anakin for leaving his Mom in Slavery for apparently at least a decade after leaving, and not heading back to see her until he had a vision about it later.

Granted the Jedi probably discouraged it but he wasn't under Obi-Wan's control every minute, he couldn't ever find a free weekend to rent a shuttle and offer Watto his special "no lightsaber's through your head in exchange for my mom" deal?