OOC part 2.   Posted by Mittens.Group: 0
Joe Darkthorne
 GM, 432 posts
 Everyone suspects a Rogue
 Few suspect the Ranger
Sun 13 Aug 2017
at 00:58
Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP
Hopefully you're not too distracted, busy, or forgot, but like I passed along for Seth the other night-

""oh btw when you next see Tim online let him know that I'll be able to hold the wastelands session saturday night I expect we'll be starting at 10:30 Eastern (9:30 central)""
Mittens
 GM, 1481 posts
 Shifter
 change job kupopopo!
Tue 21 May 2019
at 03:05
Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP
so in Margreve we have

warforged druid
elf alchemist

drow sorc
goblin ranger (melee)

human fighter (built to be mix of ranged and melee will probably end up being 99% ranged in actual combat.)

and that leaves me.  one thought i had was nathan (using aricocra or some other wings race) and make him a tree sniper.  but that leaves us with 1.01 frontline melee persons.  was also considering playing a rogue.  not sure how well stabby rogue would work out with only 1.01 melee persons.  definitely not playing a caster in "casters take penalties" setting no matter how soon that gets erased.  learned the hard way 5e casters aren't worth the effort.  unless maybe warlock?  since hypothetical salt in wounds warlock won't ever see light of day...  too indecisive.  any votes for what would be fun for you guys to add to the team?
Joe Darkthorne
 GM, 434 posts
 Everyone suspects a Rogue
 Few suspect the Ranger
Tue 21 May 2019
at 05:01
Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP
Mittens:
so in Margreve we have

warforged druid
elf alchemist

drow sorc
goblin ranger (melee)

human fighter (built to be mix of ranged and melee will probably end up being 99% ranged in actual combat.)

and that leaves me.  one thought i had was nathan (using aricocra or some other wings race) and make him a tree sniper.  but that leaves us with 1.01 frontline melee persons.  was also considering playing a rogue.  not sure how well stabby rogue would work out with only 1.01 melee persons.  definitely not playing a caster in "casters take penalties" setting no matter how soon that gets erased.  learned the hard way 5e casters aren't worth the effort.  unless maybe warlock?  since hypothetical salt in wounds warlock won't ever see light of day...  too indecisive.  any votes for what would be fun for you guys to add to the team?


We've got good house rules so Warlocks do not suffer The World's Smallest Spell List, so as long as you remember those it could work out in a Seth campaign better than the norm. (You'd still be dealing with 'So you have TWO spells per short rest, until level 11 though, so get used to 90% cantrips even then)

That said?  Maybe a Paladin could work out for what you want.  5th ed Lay on hands has "Cures any disease, full stop" so only the power of railroading would stop that.

The usual Smite stuff isn't impacted by a floating -1 hit/DC effect of the forest.  And specific type wise, the paladins with charm immunity auras would probably be real useful in self important magic forest land.

There is also the SPITE factor, as Margreve has like, zero stuff for paladins.  The list of "who uses what new spells" omits the paladin entirely, Like, wowie zowie.

(and the cleric only gets one token hunt worshiper path mostly to show off margreve spells anyways)

This message was last edited by the GM at 05:06, Tue 21 May.

Mittens
 GM, 1482 posts
 Shifter
 change job kupopopo!
Tue 21 May 2019
at 06:27
Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP
Paladin it is!  Thanks for the help deciding.  I'll be aiming for the dex build described here:  https://www.gametruth.com/guid...-to-build-a-paladin/ 'cause i'm expecting that to be the most compatible with a flying race.  i'm assuming we're all taking the standard 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 ability scores?
Joe Darkthorne
 GM, 435 posts
 Everyone suspects a Rogue
 Few suspect the Ranger
Tue 21 May 2019
at 06:49
Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP
Mittens:
Paladin it is!  Thanks for the help deciding.  I'll be aiming for the dex build described here:  https://www.gametruth.com/guid...-to-build-a-paladin/ 'cause i'm expecting that to be the most compatible with a flying race.  i'm assuming we're all taking the standard 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 ability scores?

Regular point buy as per usual.  The array you listed adds up to the legal point buy totals, but as long as it's point buy legal pick your stats.  (of particular note, it's impossible to pay for more than a 15 before modifiers).

Most "guides" are kind of horrible and only think of sterile lab conditions at high levels,  and that guide in particular just really highlights that with "Tough will let you survive better!" *picks tough before sentinel when it gives you next to no hitpoints*

Throw this in the garbaaaaaage. "Give your paladin studded leather!" It's like this guide is trying to make Paladins die faster! (You'll start with worse AC than other options, gain AC slower, and then end only 'as good' as half-plate anyways, or worse if you take +AC feat for medium armors).

This message was last edited by the GM at 07:01, Tue 21 May.

Mittens
 GM, 1483 posts
 Shifter
 change job kupopopo!
Tue 21 May 2019
at 07:42
Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP
doh.  here i'd hoped searching for "simple 5e paladin build" would get me something halfway decent.  just about every search i do for "5e paladin build" ends with short discussions on options or massive guides with a zillion options, but no actual paladin builds.  don't suppose any of the modules have a cookie-cutter paladin in the back like many of the Pathfinder modules do?
Joe Darkthorne
 GM, 436 posts
 Everyone suspects a Rogue
 Few suspect the Ranger
Tue 21 May 2019
at 09:04
Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP
Mittens:
doh.  here i'd hoped searching for "simple 5e paladin build" would get me something halfway decent.  just about every search i do for "5e paladin build" ends with short discussions on options or massive guides with a zillion options, but no actual paladin builds.  don't suppose any of the modules have a cookie-cutter paladin in the back like many of the Pathfinder modules do?

Half-Elf: +2 CHA. Picks +1/+1 STR/CON.

Str; 14+1r+1f = 16 (yes. Feat reasons)
Dex; 10
Con; 15+1r = 16
Int; 8
Wis; 10
Cha; 15+2r =16

Campaign freebie feat: Heavy armor mastery (which also grants +1 STR). Heavy armor gives flat -3 damage taken from mundane damage.

The most He-Man possible starting position for a Paladin without cheating by trotting out busted homebrew or "semi-official" stuff. works for any paladin path.

(It can't be overstated how absurdly "Practically a demi-god" three 16 stats at level 1 is)

This message was last edited by the GM at 09:16, Tue 21 May.

Mittens
 GM, 1484 posts
 Shifter
 change job kupopopo!
Tue 21 May 2019
at 16:56
Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP
Awesome!  Thanks!  Now to decide on a look.  Prolly goin with a gal since tim's drow is the only other gal in the team i know of.
Margreve Narrator
 Narrator, 2 posts
Wed 22 May 2019
at 15:47
Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP
 Hmm my notes had Mittens going with 'Nathan  - Variant Winged Aasimar - Oath of Vengence Paladin (To get wings gives up subrace 3rd level trait, light bringer, and the healing hands traits to gain a flight speed of 30 when not wearing heavy armor.) - starting feat was polearm mastery.' But a female Half-elf paladin works better (since Nathan couldn't get Str 16 at lvl 1 with polearm mastery and would have a lower AC due to medium armor. And I have no clue what Nathan's stats would have been I'm guessing STR 15, Dex 14, Con 14 (with Racial boost), Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 15 (with racial boost) at lvl 4 could go +1 Str/+1Cha to get both to 16, but still behind the Female Half-elf Paladin's Str by 2pts at that level (assuming +2str for the half-elf at lvl 4), would have fewer hit points, and lower AC and no damage reduction but gains flight when in medium armor or lighter.

Personally, I think the half-elf will be more effective, as flight is limited in the Margreve woods due to thick branches all over the place.
Out of curiosity what type of paladin will you be going? Oath of the Ancients has a lean towards Nature which would be rather appropriate in the Margreve. Vengeance is also good for damage. Devotion would play sort of like Zerry. Conquest is a bit of a fearmonger (trying to make foes afraid of him to exploit an offensive aura to reduce their speed to 0). Redemption is a pacifist.

This message was last edited by the player at 15:49, Wed 22 May.

Joe Darkthorne
 GM, 437 posts
 Everyone suspects a Rogue
 Few suspect the Ranger
Wed 22 May 2019
at 17:17
Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP
While it may seem to lack "I push the button that makes the attacks gooder" features.  Redemption path amuses me because it gets "Damage reflection still counts as being morally superior!" as it's second channel option. (Also a nice solid spell list. Super OP hypnotic pattern and super valuable counterspell, and both hold spells.).  +5 to persuasion checks for 10 minutes also makes it one of the most "I have noncombat uses!" paladin that isn't "Devotion gets zone of truth".

Of course the radiant damage reflect it only works if the badguy is within 30 feet of the paladin when they hit someone else, so MMO kite boulder throwers wouldn't get effected.  It would still count for if a dragon blasted the party.

People gush about Vengeance path a lot, but it's basically "I want to duel the boss" path so can falter outside of lab conditions.

"I cast haste! Then use my channel divinity to give myself advantage on attack rolls vs my Oath target! And use my reaction as an extra swing vs oath target!"
"Cool, what do you do about the other enemies?"
"...What?"

Very good at what it does, but what it does is put one guy through a blender and say "But look at my Boss DPS chart!" when it's not doing that.

Devotion is the most straightforward one in "Want to be a Paladin", as usual.  It's got the most straightforward combat buff channel (+1 long term instead of "This ONE guy/ONE swing!"), anti undead/demon turn,

Ancients is very Meh. Even in a setting chock full of Fey stuff.

Conquest is highly gimmicky, and that temptation of "Paladin that learns dominate person" is still all the way at lv 17. It involves the most thinking about niche modifiers and that's even with a generous assumption nothing will ever be immune to fear. It can work great! But it's probably the paladin with the most hoops to jump through for it's gimmicks to work.

TL;DR: Overall for Chris's needs, I'd suggest either Devotion (PHB), or Redemption (Xanathar's guide).  They are the most broad strokes paladins rather than "But if you do X and Y when Z happens *points at chart*"

This message was last edited by the GM at 17:23, Wed 22 May.

Margreve Narrator
 Narrator, 3 posts
Wed 22 May 2019
at 19:55
Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP
In reply to Joe Darkthorne (msg # 412):

Oath of the Ancients has a few things your possibly underselling. It is the best at anti-horde for a paladin as it gets a few more AoE spells and it has the ability to restrain targets with channel divinity. That is basically a paralysis ability. Plus they have the aura that gives resistance to all spell damage which makes them excel vs enemy casters.
Ancient is like 4e warden, Vengeance is like 4e avenger and devotion is like the 4e paladin. I'm not sure which one Mittens would prefer. We both agree that Devotion is a good choice but I'm not all that fond of as martial archetype that discourages martial action which is why I dislike Redemption as I think that approach is better for a full caster than a half caster. Ancient is defensive which is probably why you think it is meh for Mittens...and it may be for him unless he likes the playstyle of the 4e Warden.

This message was last edited by the player at 22:53, Wed 22 May.

Barbara Naur
 Player, 0 posts
Thu 23 May 2019
at 23:19
Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP
Thanks for the input!  I'm looking for "easy to build and play" without winding up a 1-trick pony.  (Which is what I'm told rogue would be like.  Yay massive single-target damage!  Aaand that's all I do.)

I noticed a lack of meat-shield in the team, so a paladin who's more focused on shrugging off half a dozen treants rolling higher initiative and throwing boulders at her would probably be great.  Damage dealing and AoE spells, while something I tend to enjoy muchly, may not be what the team needs.  (And certainly not worth the hassle of playing a 5e wizard.)  The team's Alchemist, Druid, and Sorcerer probably have the magical battlefield control covered.  But I wouldn't complain at all if my paladin wound up with a holy hand grenade or two.

This message was last updated by the player at 23:19, Thu 23 May.

Margreve Narrator
 Narrator, 4 posts
Fri 24 May 2019
at 13:54
TotOM Prep
In reply to Barbara Naur (msg # 414):

Hmm, then this paladin definitely could either go for a one hander and shield to maximize your AC at the cost of offense. Although another option is the Polearm-mastery route with a polearm and pick that feat up at 4th level unless your willing to not start with the 3 16s, or since your a half-elf could go the double scimitar route by taking Revenant Blade (instead of Heavy armor master as a starting feat) which still lets you get +1 str or dex (you'd want str so your stats wouldn't change) and while it makes the double-bladed scimitar finesse you can still use str with it... and while it is a two-handed weapon (a double weapon) you'd get +1 AC with it (so only 1 AC behind a shield) AND you'd get the ability to use a bonus action to make a melee attack with it that would do 2d4+str damage.

The Double bladed scimitar is a 2d4 slashing weapon that weighs six pounds (it would cost 35gp out of your 200gp starting funds)
Which it doesn't give you the extra reaction attacks that polearm master gives you or the reach that most polearms have but it gives you a good bonus action attack and a +1 to AC so it is a bit more defensive than polearm master

Technically since you can use polearm mastery with a quarterstaff you could use it with a shield, but then you give up the reach of a proper polearm.

(Revenant Blade feat and double scimitar are in the Wayfinder's guide to Eberron.)
Joe Darkthorne
 GM, 438 posts
 Everyone suspects a Rogue
 Few suspect the Ranger
Fri 24 May 2019
at 16:44
TotOM Prep
I remember an ancient conversation where we balanced out wacky dual weapons to be in line with official "what you could have had with PHB based dual wielding" weaponry, damage wise.  (Part of how Joe was going to end up with a 1d6 dual shortsword that isn't supplement creep).

Because consistent damage tables and explaining stuff like "Yes, 2dX over 1dY really IS that big a deal" have been a longstanding thing with me.

But even ignoring that? Paladins can't take dual wielding style

Which is what you need to make Dual wielding even slightly worth it on a non rogue martial.  Welp!  They also can't take the Archery style in case that comes up for some strange reason.

(Of course, knowing my luck. power creep probably included something like "If you are an elf you get damage mod to bonus action attacks for free just for even owning a double scimitar, So our rangers can take the archery style but go full Drizzt!" or whatever)

Anyways!  Great weapon fighting works for polearms and plain old "I crush them with my maul" (as Tark has shown).  But while there is the raw numbers appeal of "Paladin has the biggest weapon in the party", Duelist is no fuss all done, no feats for optimization involved (I mean, you don't need feats for maximum Maul o'clock, but polearm mastery does vastly increase the hilarity of pole arms)

This message was last edited by the GM at 16:57, Fri 24 May.

Forgotten Realms Narrator
 Narrator, 5 posts
 For the D&D 5e
 Campaign Thread
Fri 24 May 2019
at 17:03
TotOM Prep
In reply to Joe Darkthorne (msg # 416):

I think I recall that conversation now so the double scimitar would just be 1d6 instead of 2d4 and can't remember if he'd get the +stat damage or not with that feat, I know he gets it with the Polearm feat (which he could take at level 4 if he didn't want to start with it and not have 3 16s) And forgot that paladins don't get the dual wielding fighting style option...
Mittens
 GM, 1486 posts
 Shifter
 change job kupopopo!
Sat 25 May 2019
at 06:46
TotOM Prep
CoX!

https://imgur.com/XGNwS8P

Couldn't resist installing.  XD
Joe Darkthorne
 GM, 439 posts
 Everyone suspects a Rogue
 Few suspect the Ranger
Wed 29 May 2019
at 03:44
TotOM Prep
Half-Elf Paladin quick numbers (assuming my example stat spread+Feat)

Campaign Freebie Feat: Heavy Armor Master. +1 STR. Flat 3 damage reduction vs Mundane DMG.

STR: 14+1(R)+1(F) = 16
DEX: 10
CON: 15+1(R)= 16
INT: 8
WIS: 10
CHA: 14+2(R)= 16

HP:  13  (10+CON).
Lv ups: 6+CON.

Save profs: WIS, CHA.

AC: 16 Via Armor. (Chainmail).
18 if Chainmail+shield.

DC: 8+2(prof)+3(CHA) = 13

STR Weapons: +5 To-Hit. 1dX+3 DMG.

Skills: 6 picks. (two above average)
4 if they take a half-elf variant. (average skill count)

+1 racial language for free.

"You have to do this yourself. Full stop." BG based language vs tools.
2 Tools, 2 languages, or 1 tool 1 language.

BG Feature (cherry pick from an existing background).

Million zillionth reminder that 5th ed "Backgrounds" are not optional extras. They are half your default proficiencies. (That's why most classes have "only" 2 skills listed)

What are variant half elves?:

Cash in the +2 skills for- (of the non redundant options)

A: Half wood elf for Fleet of foot (35 foot speed),
  OR Mask of the wild (Stealth checks allowed in "Natural light obscurement". Flimsy shrubs. spooky fog. "How much does your GM love stealth?" )

B: Half high elf. For any one cantrip, casts with INT if stats involved. (The "I want presti!" option)

C: Half Drow, for the Drow magic trait. (all CHA based, even though only 1/3 even use stats to cast).
  lv 1, dancing lights cantrip.
  Lv 3, cast once per day faeire fire.
  Lv 5, cast once per day darkness.

D: half water elf for 30 foot swim speed.

This message was last edited by the GM at 03:53, Wed 29 May.

Barbara Naur
 Player, 1 post
Wed 29 May 2019
at 04:42
TotOM Prep
Re ranks Reorge!

Been putting off due to being slammed with allergy headaches the past several days.  Becauuuse.  Go to my former Dr.  "You still have the expensive serum I need in my arms so my head doesn't explode.  But you don't carry my new insurance.  So... gimme the serum and I'll personally deliver it to the Hagerstown Allergy office that does carry my insurance."

Them: "K.  Here you go.  Keep it cold."

"Yay.  That was easy."

*Drives to Allergy Dr. in MD*  "Here's my insurance card.  Here's the serum."

Them: "Oops!  This says your insurance is from PA.  You'll have to go to the PA office to get your shots.  This MD office isn't authorized to bill PA carriers of this insurance."

"Ugh.  Fine.  I'll need their shot schedule."

Them: "The PA office only administers shots on Tuesdays."

*Head Explodes*

Upshot.  Tuesday has arrived at last.  Shots already helping.

This message was last edited by the player at 04:45, Wed 29 May.

Mittens
 GM, 1487 posts
 Shifter
 change job kupopopo!
Fri 31 May 2019
at 00:20
TotOM Prep
Two very emotionally charged family matters have snowballed into URGENT very emotionally charged family matters.  Dealing with them from day to day in between various other surprise urgent junk is very mentally draining.  Will be putting everything else on low priority for the foreseeable future.
Joe Darkthorne
 GM, 440 posts
 Everyone suspects a Rogue
 Few suspect the Ranger
Fri 31 May 2019
at 00:54
Re: TotOM Prep
Mittens:
Two very emotionally charged family matters have snowballed into URGENT very emotionally charged family matters.  Dealing with them from day to day in between various other surprise urgent junk is very mentally draining.  Will be putting everything else on low priority for the foreseeable future.

I hope everything goes as well as it can, you already have enough problems in your life as it is without new ones.
Timothius
 GM, 386 posts
 Paladin of Bahamut
 Shifter (of sorts)
Sat 1 Jun 2019
at 22:34
Re: TotOM Prep
BG Benefit ideas:

Trustworthy Face
People just open up around you. Things that would normally be considered private or not for common ears often leak to you when you talk with people.

People Guage
You can guage people at a glance. You may not know their motives or who is skilled at lying (or anything else Insight gives you), but you get a "feeling" of who looks approachable and who looks good for getting the information you may be after. Whenever you want to, you can find someone you may be able to either get useful information from or simply useful to befriend. Examples include knowing someone in the bar has clear signs of being a regular, someone who carries himself like a military man, someone who looks amiable, someone who looks lonely, someone who looks wealthier than normal, etc.

Margreve Network
You know the people and creatures of the Margreve rather well and can navigate who to talk to about matters concerning the Margreve and how to find them. For example, if you wanted to find a ranger or druid, you know places to check for them or methods to have them find you. If you are lost, you know ways of calling for a guide.

Magnetic
Maybe you're good looking. Maybe you're charismatic. Whatever the reason, people like you and flock to you as if you were famous. After spending an hour or more in a town, people quickly find out who you are and what you're about. Most will have rose-colored glasses where you are concerned.


Lemme know how these look and what I could do to edit them to be feasible features.

Also: Although I am not taking the Knight Retainers background benefit, I do want to know what is normally involved in generating them. I know they are non-combat, but do they still have stats? Skills? Etc?

This message was last edited by the GM at 22:47, Sat 01 June.

Elric
 GM, 297 posts
 Elric is not currently in
 an active thread.
Sat 1 Jun 2019
at 23:25
Re: TotOM Prep
For the retainers, I'm basically allowing any CR 0 beast that has been awakened or using a commoner of whatever PC eligible race that generates the abilities (stats/skills) of the individual.

For backgrounds, not really sure what you're trying to go for with them to properly evaluate them. However trustworthy face seems problematic, strangers are not going to come up to you and tell you secrets.
Mittens
 GM, 1488 posts
 Shifter
 change job kupopopo!
Sun 2 Jun 2019
at 21:11
Re: TotOM Prep
Woke up after my usual 2 hours too few.  Plenty of time between then and scheduled Skype call, so I popped 2mg of melatonin.  Woke up after 9 hrs total sleep feeling like this was going to be a severe allergy day.  Skype call got canceled, so yay for that.  Coughed up gunk.  Oh.  That explains why severe allergy symptoms even though I got my shots.  I've caught a cold.  Took zink, vitamin C, etc.  *Crashes for another 2.5 hours*  Woke up super groggy.  Then find a finished Barby charsheet in PM!  Yaay!  =)
Joe Darkthorne
 GM, 441 posts
 Everyone suspects a Rogue
 Few suspect the Ranger
Thu 6 Jun 2019
at 00:36
Re: TotOM Prep
  I expect Rocky and Caeldrim's reaction might be some clash of "What the module flavor text and image says Vs what the module encounter text and map says"?

  The text description and big image highlight how the party can easily walk right up to the wagon unopposed and risk free unless the enemy leaves the wagon.

  But it's nothing new for modules to put enemies someplace they can't possibly shoot you from, then still got "THEY SHOOT THE PARTY!".  So if that's the case, I expect our group can work with that.

  If "see if they fall for 'literal goblin' and 'human that speaks goblin' pranks" doesn't pan out, of course.

This message was last edited by the GM at 00:36, Thu 06 June.

Elric
 GM, 298 posts
 Elric is not currently in
 an active thread.
Fri 7 Jun 2019
at 00:26
Re: TotOM Prep
While the map for the encounter is nice, it doesn't perfectly match up with the written description (or the description of what the goblins inside of it can do)...I fully expect the party to be able to work with it, hilariously trying to talk to the goblins in goblin (possibly by a goblin PC) was never even brought up within the encounter module...time to improvise.