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03:53, 25th April 2024 (GMT+0)

OOC part 2.

Posted by MittensFor group 0
Mittens
GM, 767 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Fri 29 Jul 2011
at 23:22
  • msg #1

OOC part 2

Pesky 1k limit.
Christof Ley
player, 7 posts
warlock FTW
Mon 1 Aug 2011
at 11:41
  • msg #2

Re: OOC part 2

That just means we have a lot to talk about:P
Mittens
GM, 768 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Tue 2 Aug 2011
at 03:59
  • msg #3

Re: OOC part 2

Skylar:
( Just realized that with current setup, 6 player characters means PvP has to happen in this encounter eventually, regardless.


In case you didn't know, Reaver, Tim and I are not fond of PvP with very rare exception.  Dunno you opinion on fighting Tim's characters, but I had planned for story to stop the fight soon to prevent PvP.  Any preferences?
Zekk Reaver
player, 4 posts
You wouldn't like me
when I'm angry
Tue 2 Aug 2011
at 11:11
  • msg #4

Re: OOC part 2

Actually I'm ok with it, but only because it is a sandbox meant for testing characters. In a normal setting I would have a bit more problem with it. Either way it fine with me though:)
Timothius
GM, 280 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Tue 2 Aug 2011
at 15:41
  • msg #5

Re: OOC part 2

I agree with Zekk, but I also like your idea.
Akemi Sato
player, 6 posts
Thu 4 Aug 2011
at 05:40
  • msg #6

Re: OOC part 2

Apologies to Zekk. I honestly wasn't just out to make sure my characters survived instead of yours or anything. XD After all, RP will be much more interesting with another player (namely you). But personality-wise, it just happened this way. Akemi wasn't going to team, and would have been happy to watch everyone kill each other off, until she saw how quickly everyone was teaming up (and those not teaming were falling). Christof, ironically, kinda proved to Akemi she couldn't just sit back.

Chant's personality is a leadership type. She's a strong believer in the "cogs in the machine" speech and that the individual is useless in battle without the group. So she tried to get a team rather than allow pure chaos.

Morthos joined Chant strictly on racial grounds.

And Skylar is a joiner. While he's not quite like Chant about "cogs in the machine" stuff, he is smart enough to know a team is much more powerful and he'd be screwed if he didn't agree to team with SOMEONE once it came up.

So again... sorry. It just... turned out that way. Didn't plan it. XD
Kyle
player, 106 posts
Crossbow of SCIENCE...
Or MAGIC? I always forget
Fri 5 Aug 2011
at 07:38
  • msg #7

Re: OOC part 2

  Just noticed on the Scales map, you listing that the Illusion has 'same defenses as mittens' and 1 hp.

  The Spectral Image power itself states 10 for all defenses.  No listing of HP either, just that it's taken out at end of encounter, if it's hit, if it's touched, or if something moves through it.

  Also skipping an Emptyish Kyle post, since combat basically starts as soon as Tim posts for his Alt's readying their actions alongside the Spectral Image reaching LoS of enemies.  Then I'll be up for Monster posts and Kyle.
This message was last edited by the player at 07:40, Fri 05 Aug 2011.
Zekk Reaver
player, 5 posts
You wouldn't like me
when I'm angry
Fri 5 Aug 2011
at 11:32
  • msg #8

Re: OOC part 2

Wow just wow lol

No worries Akemi, it is how it goes. Nice crit, btw:)

Questions: how and when can healing surges work? also, I may not be able to get a post up now, I'm typing on my phone atm. It'll most likely be tonight. Sorry to hold everything up:/
This message was last edited by the player at 11:35, Fri 05 Aug 2011.
Mittens Pyromancer
player, 127 posts
Monster InternTM Sheets
We Know How You're Built
Fri 5 Aug 2011
at 14:44
  • msg #9

Re: OOC part 2

Kyle:
  The Spectral Image power itself states 10 for all defenses.  No listing of HP either, just that it's taken out at end of encounter, if it's hit, if it's touched, or if something moves through it.


Durp.  I guess I was confusing it with the rules for conjurations or some such.  Thanks for the catch.  Map updated.
Morthos
player, 4 posts
You don't understand fear
Taste the Far Realm
Fri 5 Aug 2011
at 15:23
  • msg #10

Re: OOC part 2

Zekk Reaver:
Questions: how and when can healing surges work? also, I may not be able to get a post up now, I'm typing on my phone atm. It'll most likely be tonight. Sorry to hold everything up:/


*goes into RPing the OOC for the heck of it*

Morthos says, "Surges are great! It's what makes you survive a combat. And if you have an action point to go with spending a surge? Could really make a difference!"

*goes back to OOC*

Once per encounter, you can use a standard action to spend a healing surge. This is called "using your second wind". So suppose Zekk does this. He can literally HEAL HIMSELF for his healing surge value. Here's the related information in your character sheet:

HP: 29 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 7

Your bloodied value is apparently missing from your character sheet, but no big deal. Bloodied = half your HP rounded down. Surge = half you bloodied value rounded down. So Zekk's bloodied value is 14. His surge value (which is listed anyway) is 7. Difference between surges and surge value is you can only use your surges as long as you have them, while the value is how much you heal for. So going back to your example:

HP: 3/29 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 7

Zekk's HP is at 3 right now. He can use his second wind to spend a healing surge. The value is 7. So doing this would bring his HP up from 3 to 10 (3+7). Now Zekk's HP is at 10. Your number of surges is 10, but you spent one, so it is now 9/10. So it would look like this now:

HP: 10/29 Surges: 9/10 Surge Value: 7

The trick is that since it takes a standard action, you can't attack or anything unless you spend an action point. But there's also an upshot: All your defenses go up by +2 until the end of your next turn. :)

Hope that helps thoroughly explain it. If I missed something, I'm sure Joe will let you know.
Mittens
GM, 769 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Fri 5 Aug 2011
at 18:26
  • msg #11

Re: OOC part 2

There's other uses.  For example, if a healer uses a power on you such as a cleric's healing word, you must "spend a healing surge" to gain the benefits of that healing power.  Some other powers require spending a healing surge.  A healing potion requires spending a healing surge.  During a short rest after combat, you can spend as many healing surges as you like.  So in essence it's a measure of how much punishment you can handle in a game day, because after an extended rest, you get all your spent healing surges back.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 310 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Fri 5 Aug 2011
at 20:59
  • msg #12

Re: OOC part 2

  So many different forms of 'Summon thingy', that mixing up the giant pile or mechanics for different kinds is perfectly understandable.  I had to triple checked to make sure I didn't just list your power wrong.

  A few races and classes have some shenanigans with their Surges as well.  For example, Dragonborn Surge value gets their CON modifier added on top of it (It's all fun and giggles, until you run into the 'lose a surge worth of health' effects.  Then you get punished for being more healthy).

  Also yeah, giving him the heads up about how you cant just chug potions in 4th ed was a good on I would have forgotten to mention <.<
Zekk Reaver
player, 7 posts
You wouldn't like me
when I'm angry
Mon 8 Aug 2011
at 15:36
  • msg #13

Re: OOC part 2

Well, Zekk doesn't have any potions, though I was happy to find out that getting up from prone no longer provokes an AoO:) that makes me happy.

A downside is that strength and health don't go up from raging, upside you no longer lose ac because of it.
Mittens
GM, 771 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 8 Aug 2011
at 16:30
  • msg #14

Re: OOC part 2

Zekk Reaver:
>>Effect: AoO if bloodied enemy shifts while adjacent to me


What power did you use for this effect?
Zekk Reaver
player, 8 posts
You wouldn't like me
when I'm angry
Mon 8 Aug 2011
at 16:45
  • msg #15

Re: OOC part 2

Blood Seeker's Rage. I'll edit that into the post.
Mittens
GM, 772 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 8 Aug 2011
at 17:55
  • msg #16

Re: OOC part 2

I'm so used to clicking on someone's icon for their charsheet, I'd completely forgotten about your putting yours in the charsheet link.  XD  Zek's icon links to a charsheet that lists Macetail's Rage, hence the confusion.
Monster Intern
player, 66 posts
Monster Party!
Monster Prices!
Tue 9 Aug 2011
at 10:14
  • msg #17

Re: OOC part 2

  Combo Monsters/Kyle post up in Scales.

  Raichel, since you did not mention the possibility of Raichel using Timothy's Prophetic guidance to reroll vs Target, I will assume you didn't want to.

  If you DID want to, feel free to reroll lightning strike vs Drake 1 without cover penalties as she'd have done that right off, and if that hits, pick a grunt to bite it from the arc, or add damage to Drake 2.
This message was last edited by the player at 10:14, Tue 09 Aug 2011.
Timothy
player, 75 posts
Cleric of Good
Merciful
Tue 9 Aug 2011
at 15:14
  • msg #18

Re: OOC part 2

Speaking of, Kyle don't forget the bonuses to damage that Tim's power gives. It only lasts this one round, so if you forgo it, that 4 damage (and +2 attack) is gone. Not that I mind a minion being slain, but Mittens can take care of minions. I think. STAIRS! Maybe.

As for Rai.... I kinda rerolled her attack out of curiosity back when I made the attack. Rolled a 6, which also misses badly. So no, Raichel is not using the reroll. Or we can say she did and the reroll is eaten up now.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:17, Tue 09 Aug 2011.
Mittens
GM, 773 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Tue 9 Aug 2011
at 16:22
  • msg #19

Re: OOC part 2

I noticed that Tim forgot May and pointed this out to him.

"Well there's nothing she could do!  She's melee!" Tim objected.

"This is why I love javelins," I answered.

"I gotta go out the door.  Do some readied javelin thing for me."

I took a look and she only has 3gp of starting gold left according to her char sheet, so she couldn't have afforded a 5 gp javelin.  Searched the entire SoW pdf for a javelin she might have looted from an enemy.  Not one javelin in the entire module.  So... crowbar it is.  Assuming it's allowed.

As for the reroll...  Teeechnically Rai goes before Timothius, so she couldn't use that reroll unless you had intentionally delayed her till after Timo.
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:32, Tue 09 Aug 2011.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 311 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Tue 9 Aug 2011
at 20:40
  • msg #20

Re: OOC part 2

  Well, a mundane crowbar could actually be used as an improvised weapon,  However, May's Arena Fighter goodies only mention 'one handed and two handed'.  It makes no mention of range if you attempt to throw things. (5/10 for improvised).

  It's the 'Silent Tool' that for some reason, has the whole 'this can not be used to an attack or as a weapon' details.
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:43, Tue 09 Aug 2011.
Christof Ley
player, 9 posts
warlock FTW
Wed 10 Aug 2011
at 13:36
  • msg #21

Re: OOC part 2

7000!!!!

btw: what is the difference between a shift and a normal move? is a shift like the 5' step in 3.5?
This message was last edited by the player at 13:37, Wed 10 Aug 2011.
Elric
GM, 259 posts
Warforged Runepriest
Level 4
Wed 10 Aug 2011
at 16:17
  • msg #22

Re: OOC part 2

A shift is a move that does not cause AoOs, unlike normal movement. It is similar to the 5ft step of 3.5 but isn't limited to 1 square (5ft) as there are many ways to shift multiple squares. You can only shift into difficult terrain if you have enough movement to do so, normally with just 1 square you don't, unless you are able to ignore difficult terrain when shifting as a special ability.
Christof Ley
player, 10 posts
warlock FTW
Wed 10 Aug 2011
at 16:30
  • msg #23

Re: OOC part 2

so if I have an ability that doesn't say anything about shifting, does that mean I can only shift 5ft/1 square?
Mittens
GM, 774 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Wed 10 Aug 2011
at 16:44
  • msg #24

Re: OOC part 2

Pretty much.  Unless you want to sac your standard action (attack action) for an extra move action.  If you did, you could shift, then move your speed... Or you could "double move" meaning 2 squares worth of shifting.
Christof Ley
player, 11 posts
warlock FTW
Wed 10 Aug 2011
at 16:46
  • msg #25

Re: OOC part 2

ok, thanks:)I'll get my post up soonish
Morthos
player, 7 posts
You don't understand fear
Taste the Far Realm
Thu 11 Aug 2011
at 16:44
  • msg #26

Re: OOC part 2

Reminder for Kris: Roll perception and put the result in your post in Arkhosia. :)
Krystofer
player, 11 posts
Holds sword
Attacks with shield
Thu 11 Aug 2011
at 18:24
  • msg #27

Re: OOC part 2

sure. which one?
Morthos
player, 8 posts
You don't understand fear
Taste the Far Realm
Fri 12 Aug 2011
at 01:36
  • msg #28

Re: OOC part 2

The latest post.
Krystofer
player, 12 posts
Holds sword
Attacks with shield
Fri 12 Aug 2011
at 03:05
  • msg #29

Re: OOC part 2

lol I know that part, which perception do I roll? Why am I rolling it?
Mittens
GM, 775 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Fri 12 Aug 2011
at 03:08
  • msg #30

Re: OOC part 2

Roll a d20 then add your character's only perception modifier.  (4e only has one.)  Put that somewhere at the bottom of your latest post.  He'll let you know if you character noticed anything noteworthy.
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:11, Fri 12 Aug 2011.
Morthos
player, 9 posts
You don't understand fear
Taste the Far Realm
Fri 12 Aug 2011
at 03:13
  • msg #31

Re: OOC part 2

.....XD

We discussed this on chat and came to the conclusion you must be thinking of 3.5 where perception comes as Listen, Spot, Search, etc... in 4.0, it's just Perception. One skill to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 312 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Fri 12 Aug 2011
at 03:15
  • msg #32

Re: OOC part 2

  RPOL has a dice roller button up on the top of the screen.  Though bizarrely, the dice roller button does not appear when looking at character details, which would be what your looking at to check what you need to roll -.o
Elric
GM, 260 posts
Warforged Runepriest
Level 4
Fri 12 Aug 2011
at 05:35
  • msg #33

Re: OOC part 2

The RPoL Dice Roller has that evil streakiness issue that makes it rather bad, thought we were using some dice logs Tim setup for us at dicelog.com since that dice roller seems to work better.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 313 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Fri 12 Aug 2011
at 05:38
  • msg #34

Re: OOC part 2

  He didn't even know how to roll dice on RPOL in the first place, baby steps before sending them off into the internet wilderness of alternate dice programs.
Krystofer
player, 13 posts
Holds sword
Attacks with shield
Fri 12 Aug 2011
at 12:55
  • msg #35

Re: OOC part 2

Are we talking about me and the dice roller? because that I use very frequently. I do not know 4e, that is where most of my problems are coming from:/
Emerald
player, 129 posts
Vixen Rogue
Arcane Singer
Fri 19 Aug 2011
at 22:58
  • msg #36

Re: OOC part 2

Edited the first post of the Quartilia thread.
Krystofer
player, 14 posts
Holds sword
Attacks with shield
Mon 22 Aug 2011
at 12:49
  • msg #37

Re: OOC part 2

Who are we waiting for in the Arkhosia game?
Zekk Reaver
player, 9 posts
You wouldn't like me
when I'm angry
Mon 22 Aug 2011
at 12:51
  • msg #38

Re: OOC part 2

You can do as many healing surges as you want during a break right?
Chant
player, 6 posts
What music
sharp steel can make
Mon 22 Aug 2011
at 15:09
  • msg #39

Re: OOC part 2

That is correct. Remember Zekk will get an extra 4 HP for *each* surge he spends because of my Song of Rest
Morthos
player, 10 posts
You don't understand fear
Taste the Far Realm
Wed 24 Aug 2011
at 20:30
  • msg #40

Re: OOC part 2

Krystofer:
OOC: Ummmmm who's next up?


It's my turn. I was gonna get to it today, but got very tired and decided to nap first. XD But anyways, if you are going to only post an OOC comment, please do so in the OOC thread (here). :) Otherwise, OOC comments inside an IC thread (such as Arkhosia) are to be put in purple and small text at the bottom of an IC post.
Krystofer
player, 16 posts
Holds sword
Attacks with shield
Wed 24 Aug 2011
at 20:32
  • msg #41

Re: OOC part 2

My bad. I will refrain from doing that next time.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 314 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Wed 24 Aug 2011
at 20:39
  • msg #42

Re: OOC part 2

Morthos:
Otherwise, OOC comments inside an IC thread (such as Arkhosia) are to be put in purple and small text at the bottom of an IC post.


  Purple OOC text can die in a tire fire. But I think I'm alone in that opinion on this board.

Edit: color coding for OOC at all can do so.  Color coding all hitpoints, including the name of the HP owner in SAME COLOR on the other hand, is fine.
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:56, Wed 24 Aug 2011.
Krystofer
player, 17 posts
Holds sword
Attacks with shield
Wed 24 Aug 2011
at 20:42
  • msg #43

Re: OOC part 2

Nope I feel the same. My ooc comments are always orange
Morthos
player, 11 posts
You don't understand fear
Taste the Far Realm
Wed 24 Aug 2011
at 20:45
  • msg #44

Re: OOC part 2

Joe Darkthorne:
Morthos:
Otherwise, OOC comments inside an IC thread (such as Arkhosia) are to be put in purple and small text at the bottom of an IC post.


  Purple OOC text can die in a tire fire. But I think I'm alone in that opinion on this board.


Purple; I couldn't care less what color you choose. Small; is a preference. But the *point* is that it is seperate from IC. Or you can do this (Which Joe does):


Draw a line between IC and OOC. You can do this by typing the less-than sign, typing HR, then typing the greater-than sign.
Zekk Reaver
player, 12 posts
You wouldn't like me
when I'm angry
Wed 24 Aug 2011
at 20:53
  • msg #45

Re: OOC part 2

TIL how to make a line:) Thanks for that
Morthos
player, 13 posts
You don't understand fear
Taste the Far Realm
Wed 24 Aug 2011
at 21:12
  • msg #46

Re: OOC part 2

No probs. Post is up now. Enjoy.
Elric
GM, 261 posts
Warforged Runepriest
Level 4
Sat 27 Aug 2011
at 03:56
  • msg #47

Re: OOC part 2

Okay just got back home from the conference, I fell that my presentation went well, but I'm a bit tired right now but this weekend I'll be able to start getting back into a normal posting routine.
Timothius
GM, 281 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sat 27 Aug 2011
at 04:01
  • msg #48

Re: OOC part 2

Mitts and I are going on family vacation starting monday. Should be back Thursday or Friday. Also, this weekend will be busy for Mitts and I.
Elric
GM, 262 posts
Warforged Runepriest
Level 4
Sat 27 Aug 2011
at 06:06
  • msg #49

Re: OOC part 2

Not a problem, that will get me time to make sure things can continue at a good pace in the DS thread once you both get back, as there are some things I can generate ahead of time like maps and such.
Elric
GM, 263 posts
Warforged Runepriest
Level 4
Thu 1 Sep 2011
at 06:51
  • msg #50

Re: OOC part 2

Okay I have posted an update for the DS campaign and should be able to keep it moving at a good pace.

I'm having people roll 2 d20s since then I should be able to finish the skill challenge without continually needing rolls, don't worry if a roll or two are bad as there are several options for success and I'll choose an order for success over an order that would lead to failure. Not all rolls may be needed and some rolls can end up being part of 'auto-successes'.
This message was last edited by the GM at 06:59, Thu 01 Sept 2011.
Shardon
player, 28 posts
I've returned
Only for you...
Sat 3 Sep 2011
at 04:47
  • msg #51

Re: OOC part 2

Seluku:
Seluku wonders how long Shardon is going to dally around with what seems like useless chatter and when the Reverant Hafling will simply get to the point.

Trace:
Trace wonders if this is some tactic to try and bore the dwarf and mul till they pass out from the mindlessness of it all in order to rifle through their pockets for evidence... Trace then frowns slightly as he realizes that only magic can bore people to the point of passing out...after all isn't that how the 'sleep' spell works?

Trace realizes that a different approach might be warranted since if the group doesn't leave and doesn't provide a reason for being here, then things might get heated.


This is what happens when I have my arm twisted to squeeze in a post in 5 minutes while having RL moment after RL moment. I seriously had *no idea* what to post, so I posted something. Suggestions are welcome.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:53, Sat 03 Sept 2011.
Elric
GM, 264 posts
Warforged Runepriest
Level 4
Sat 3 Sep 2011
at 05:01
  • msg #52

Re: OOC part 2

Well you could simply say the group is there investigating the murder of Tellemon. If they attack, that would be considered an admission of guilt. especially since the group has a writ from the governor.
Shardon
player, 29 posts
I've returned
Only for you...
Sat 3 Sep 2011
at 05:16
  • msg #53

Re: OOC part 2

Considered that briefly, but thought we were actually trying to avoid combat. Glad it's actually that simple.
Elric
GM, 265 posts
Warforged Runepriest
Level 4
Sat 3 Sep 2011
at 05:22
  • msg #54

Re: OOC part 2

Sometimes it is that simple.
Fletch
player, 27 posts
Sat 3 Sep 2011
at 05:29
  • msg #55

Re: OOC part 2

  Admittedly, Fletch's lack of action is 30% lazy player, 60% 'the other characters have the intimidate skills, not me'.

  Also, yeah we have Government clearance to stab brains first, ask questions later (always lovely).  But even when you have a license to kill, being able to claim 'they started it' is always a good fallback.
Elric
GM, 266 posts
Warforged Runepriest
Level 4
Sat 3 Sep 2011
at 05:37
  • msg #56

Re: OOC part 2

Actually the writ is permission to question anyone and use whatever means to capture the criminal... so it is ask first, stab if needed is preferred.
Elric
GM, 267 posts
Warforged Runepriest
Level 4
Wed 7 Sep 2011
at 18:18
  • msg #57

Re: OOC part 2

Actually I'm trying to figure out the best way to handle 'on camera' the Test of Green since in the party only 2 people actually have an Arcane Daily (Fletch and Trace.) While Surya has a Divine Daily, Seluku has a Primal Daily, and both Tread and Shardon have Martial Dailies. It would be easy to just handwave it and I am tempted to do that since it seems trivial for everyone to just pop their dailies and go 'see no defiling done'... so do you want to do that on camera or have me gloss over it?

Also if your wondering the Skill Challenge for FINDING a Veiled Alliance cell won't work since I dislike how that is setup since it is pretty much set as requiring Diplomacy skills more than Arcane Skills...which I find strange.
Mittens
GM, 778 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Wed 7 Sep 2011
at 19:14
  • msg #58

Re: OOC part 2

I'm fine with a handwave, but whichever option requires less effort on your part is best.  :)

I hear ya on module nonsense.  Nature of the beast.
Fletch
player, 29 posts
Wed 7 Sep 2011
at 20:58
  • msg #59

Re: OOC part 2

  Not to mention the fact Fletch's existing daily is incapable of using Defiling even he he wanted to.  What with it being the Non-Attack No Damage 'Punishing Eye'.  And that test also assumes people hadn't used their daily powers yet in a fight like the Arena encounter and such.

  "My powers couldn't defile even if I wanted to.  Does that count?"

  Whichever way works for you best works for me Seth.
Elric
GM, 268 posts
Warforged Runepriest
Level 4
Wed 7 Sep 2011
at 22:05
  • msg #60

Re: OOC part 2

The module doesn't even cover the tests, it ended back with being offered to take the initiation since that is the 'perfect ending' for the module, they expect the initiation tests to be all homebrew....with no real clue other than the DC 19 Arcana (pre DC skill changes, so post change this would be 15) to know how the veiled alliance handles initiations.
Tread
player, 24 posts
Prissy, girly girl
...who's a TANK
Thu 8 Sep 2011
at 00:03
  • msg #61

Re: OOC part 2

Then by all means, hand-wave. Do what seems fun.
Timothy
player, 84 posts
Cleric of Good
Merciful
Tue 13 Sep 2011
at 14:16
  • msg #62

Re: OOC part 2

Monster Intern:
Effects No insight win.  Ghoul One -2 All Defenses till end of Tim's Next Turn.  Next Ally to hit Ghoul gets 2+3 (2+3+4?) HP healed.

  I know there seems to be a very wishy washy highly selective 'if its not PH1 wording, then Shut Up!' opinion going, but Healer's Lore only works on healing that involves the heal target spending surges since... well, ever since Astral Seal came out.  The errata specifically mentions Astral Seal as things that ended up overpowered.


I'm fine with that if the GM is. As it is, Astral was making me "wha? Why use Healing Word ever?" because of the 2+3+4 (But the answer is obvious. Healing word doesn't have a condition like "has to hit" and still heals for more). So in this particular instance of "Holy crud, I'm overpowered", I'm fine with the newer rules concerning Astral. Even "heals for 2+3" is still super because healing stacks while temp HP does not.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:17, Tue 13 Sept 2011.
Mittens
GM, 780 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Tue 13 Sep 2011
at 14:20
  • msg #63

Re: OOC part 2

In reply to Timothy (msg #62):

My take is that it would be up to Tim, but I would vote on the side of "whatever makes life more difficult for the players to prove just how awesome they are, bwahaha!"  Looks like all three of us vote unanimously that powers that no am spend heal surge no am get cleric class feature goodies.  Score!
Timothius
GM, 282 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Tue 13 Sep 2011
at 19:51
  • msg #64

Re: OOC part 2

Monster Intern:
  "Grr!" "Arg!"  Oh look, Zombies!

  "Arg!" "Grr!"  Oh look, Zombies slowly shuffling down the hall!

  "Grr!" "Arg!"  Oh look, a filler post!


LOL! Heh... was that a nod to Mutant Enemy Productions?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOlKRMXvTiA
Tread
player, 26 posts
Prissy, girly girl
...who's a TANK
Thu 15 Sep 2011
at 06:23
  • msg #65

Re: OOC part 2

I have re-made Tread on Character Builder, but haven't updated her character sheet. I remembered to take the Survival Day into account and all. A basic overview of what has changed:

At-Will:
Crushing Surge
Resolute Shield

Encounter:
Hack and Hew

Daily:
Comeback Strike

Meanwhile, my question to Seth: Is it OK for Tread to just be able to transform for pure flavor? Or is the ability to turn into a tank or whatever too much of a possible advantage if being chased through a city and I want to be in disguise? (Even though being an obvious alien machine of destruction would draw more attention than not)

The difference? I would take Toughness instead of the Druid MC if I'm allowed to Transform for pure flavor. (Heck, considering it anyway, but still...)
Elric
GM, 269 posts
Warforged Runepriest
Level 4
Sat 17 Sep 2011
at 05:15
  • msg #66

Re: OOC part 2

Tread:
I have re-made Tread on Character Builder, but haven't updated her character sheet. I remembered to take the Survival Day into account and all. A basic overview of what has changed:

At-Will:
Crushing Surge
Resolute Shield

Encounter:
Hack and Hew

Daily:
Comeback Strike


Understandable, although why did you keep Resolute Shield but not Weaponmaster's strike (other than Weapon master's strike having a scaling issue RAW at epic levels? If you want a shield based skill due to using a shield then Tide of iron is better as Resolute Shield is pretty pathetic since the DR only applies to the attack of the single creature you hit with the attack. Since your a fighter using a shield using either footwork Lure or Tide of Iron might be a better second At-Will with Crushing Surge.

Tread:
Meanwhile, my question to Seth: Is it OK for Tread to just be able to transform for pure flavor? Or is the ability to turn into a tank or whatever too much of a possible advantage if being chased through a city and I want to be in disguise? (Even though being an obvious alien machine of destruction would draw more attention than not)

The difference? I would take Toughness instead of the Druid MC if I'm allowed to Transform for pure flavor. (Heck, considering it anyway, but still...)


As a 'pure flavor' ability I could see a transformation based 'variant wild talent' as long as it wasn't any more powerful than existing wild talents.

However turning into a literal tank or 'alien machine of destruction' would draw a hell of a lot of attention. Heck transforming into anything will draw some attention although seeing the transformed state only may or may not depending what it is. A 'beast wars' style transformation wouldn't draw as much attention as a 'I just turned into a tank' although in D&D 4th edition there is no power that can even replicate the okay in this form I gain a type of heavy artillery or heavy weapon ranged attack. Not to mention if your wanting a character that can transform like that and have the transformations actually change you, then you might be better off as a Warden instead of a fighter since the daily 'form' powers ARE polymorph abilities. Even MC Druid's wild shape is pretty pathetic since without an at will beast power all it does is prevent you from doing pretty much anything other than moving around and it doesn't even give a bonus to moving around or a bonus for anything else. Plus the only feats that give bonuses in a wild form typically require a specific type of druid, which isn't granted by the MC druid feat (like predator druid, or guardian druid).

So the real question is do you want to be able to do anything while transformed. If the answer is yes you actually might be better off as a Warden using the 'form of' dailies several of which are rather nice, like Winter's Herald. These style of transformations would be you taking an alternative form that still allows you to use all your normal abilities plus you gain something new. An alternative method would be to be a druid, hybrid druid, or a hybrid warden.

On the other hand if your just wanting a fluff but no effect other than a cool party trick, then a variation of a wild talent would be suitable (which would replace body equilibrium. Heck I could even think of a refluffed variation of Body Equilibrium that would be the transformation if it is only used for brief periods of time as you could 'free action' transform into a form that has the benefits of Body Equilibrium, move as per the power, and then 'free action' transform back into normal form.)

So how integral are you wanting your transformations to be as part of the character's abilities? Right now your effectively a non-transforming/fluff transforming heavy amor.

- As I see it a non-transforming (or fluff only transforming) Tread would be a Pure Fighter with Heavy Armor. (This is what you effectively are as Tread right now as a Battle Rager Fighter.)
- A combat transforming Tread as a Heavy Armor Defender could work as a Hybrid Fighter/Warden (using Hybrid Talent to pick up Fighter armor specialization) This would allow you access to the Polymorphing Warden Dailies while still being able to focus on using Fighter Stats either as Str/Con or Str/Wis as they work for Wardens as well.
- A Combat transforming Tread that uses Light armor (Hide Armor) could work as either a hybrid Fighter/Warden using the Hybrid Talent to get Guardian's Might and using either option that lets you use Con for AC and then with Hide Armor if your con starts at 18 after racial bonus your AC would match that of Plate AC even at level 30. You'd still get heavy shields. Also with this option you could also go Pure Warden. As far as health goes Warden's get more health than even Fighters but are hide+heavy shield instead of Scale and heavy shield.

You could also do something involving druids but the wild shape would disable at least half your stuff if your a hybrid and druids don't make good defenders like fighters and wardens due to no marking, best you could do is single target lockdowns.

So basically there are 3 to 4 options and none would make my head explode. (Actually there is an alternative heavy armor transformation combo that I could see, paladin/Warden for a Str/Wis build that would use Hybrid Talent to get the paladin armor and then start with Plate+Heavy Shield. But that brings in some divine power, but not much, and with Surya being an invoker/wizard I don't see it as being a real issue, so technically there are 5 options.)
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:16, Sat 17 Sept 2011.
Hoal
player, 26 posts
BrB, ceasing to exist.
Back in five minutes.
Tue 20 Sep 2011
at 22:50
  • msg #67

Re: OOC part 2

Angel:
After all... preventing the dead from rising as undead is not possible in 4e. Not officially anyway.


  At least, not without Rituals like 'Gentle Repose' (only lv 1, only 10 GP component, around since PH1, no rolls.... But Hour of ritual per body and lasts only 150 days) that prevent Undead raising, but not 'Raise Dead' alongside x4 time Raise dead will work on the body.

  Though, revising the statement to 'Nothing practical that will prevent the dead from rising as undead' honestly may as well be the same thing.  I guess Team Shadowfell shouldn't have bothered then.


  EDIT: Unrelated.  There are only two City Of Heroes patch notes today that matter to you two.

  A) Today was the day they shut down the ability to make new leveling pacts 'until we can revisit the system'.  Existing ones stay.
  B)  AE Custome enemies with self Rez only give rewards the first time they are beaten now.  I find myself wondering if this will glitch out the freakshow.

 Oh, right.  Account wide Volcano Lava style aura out now in Store (80 points. real money value, one dollar).
This message was last edited by the player at 23:01, Tue 20 Sept 2011.
Timothius
GM, 283 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Wed 21 Sep 2011
at 00:14
  • msg #68

Re: OOC part 2

Hoal:
Angel:
After all... preventing the dead from rising as undead is not possible in 4e. Not officially anyway.


  At least, not without Rituals like 'Gentle Repose' (only lv 1, only 10 GP component, around since PH1, no rolls.... But Hour of ritual per body and lasts only 150 days) that prevent Undead raising, but not 'Raise Dead' alongside x4 time Raise dead will work on the body.

  Though, revising the statement to 'Nothing practical that will prevent the dead from rising as undead' honestly may as well be the same thing.  I guess Team Shadowfell shouldn't have bothered then.


Was more referring to "Prevent dead from EVER becoming undead." Gentle is a limited time only. It's basically the medieval version of an EMT rushing someone to the hospital who should be dead, prolonging their life just enough so the hospital can do the "keep them from dying permanently" work.

Hoal:
Oh, right.  Account wide Volcano Lava style aura out now in Store (80 points. real money value, one dollar).


LAVA AURA!!! *glomp* Me want!
Timothius
GM, 284 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Fri 23 Sep 2011
at 02:44
  • msg #69

Re: OOC part 2

A fun article on Magic Missile: http://greywulf.net/2010/07/is...le-a-change-too-far/

Meanwhile, Eli made it to level 6 in a friend's campaign, has 23 AC, and has been doing 11 dmg with his auto-hit magic missile so far (took Wizard's Fury obviously, so that's 22 dmg per round without a chance to fail attack roll). Fun times.
Tread
player, 27 posts
Prissy, girly girl
...who's a TANK
Sat 24 Sep 2011
at 05:42
  • msg #70

Re: OOC part 2

Trace:
Curse is placed on R2.
D2: HP 14-13=1HP (Cursed, Blooded)


....R2D2, eh? :)
Elric
GM, 270 posts
Warforged Runepriest
Level 4
Sat 24 Sep 2011
at 07:05
  • msg #71

Re: OOC part 2

Tread:
Trace:
Curse is placed on R2.
D2: HP 14-13=1HP (Cursed, Blooded)


....R2D2, eh? :)


Heh, amusing but no astromech droids (or whatever R2D2 is) in Dark Sun.
It is Curse is placed on Rager 2, and Darter 2 is down to 1 HP.
Fletch
player, 33 posts
Sat 24 Sep 2011
at 07:08
  • msg #72

Re: OOC part 2

  R2 and 3PO's escape pod landed on the opposite side of the desert planet anyway.
Mittens
GM, 781 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sat 24 Sep 2011
at 15:30
  • msg #73

Re: OOC part 2

Funny you should mention, I've been brainstorming some ideas for a Star Wars meets D&D game I plan to run for AUSA.  Basically 4e classes reflavored as Jedi who wind up fighting dragons and saving a damsel in distress.  I'm thinking of making it happen thousands of years before the events of the movies, when the lightsaber wasn't even invented.  If you were playing such a game, what sorts of flavor/story elements would you really want to see included?  An example: One of the prison guards is a Gungan.  Because everyone hates Gungans and would love to kill one.
Elric
GM, 271 posts
Warforged Runepriest
Level 4
Sat 24 Sep 2011
at 18:05
  • msg #74

Re: OOC part 2

Look up the spelljammer rules and setting from 3.5 and some of the stuff from manual of the planes for 4th edition...all sorts of silliness with flying airships and astral ships, etc...airships are found in the Adv. Vault though.

Just little things you can throw in for setting flavor and such. Might even be useful plot points.
Kyle
player, 124 posts
Crossbow of SCIENCE...
Or MAGIC? I always forget
Sun 25 Sep 2011
at 23:33
  • msg #75

Re: OOC part 2

  Tim several times: I only read the PDF to know where and what the parcels are.

  Me yesterday (almost 10 days after the encounter had ended on Thurs 15th): So, what happened to the parcels?

  Tim: Oh, weekends are busy.  There, Chris edited them in.

  Me Today: So, I've read the edit... Uh... I only see one parcel's worth (the #9, 260 GP) mentioned .There were two parcels.  What happened to the second?

  I'm still not offering to take up parcel duty.  And I'm still not reminding anyone until it's clearly well after the fact they should have been dealt with.  Because I still feel Tim is able to handle it.

  As for DnD=Star Wars=Spell Jammer.  It took two failed threads and the start of another for me to realize 'Hoal+Swordmage= Zen Jedi not held back by stupid light/dark side aspects'.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:41, Sun 25 Sept 2011.
Mittens
GM, 782 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 26 Sep 2011
at 03:37
  • msg #76

Re: OOC part 2

Kyle:
stupid light/dark side aspects'.


Part of the beauty of running a SW game without using SW rules is just that.  No stupid light/dark side aspects.  And 4e has built in the option to not kill your opponent, so it makes it easy for purists to stick to their concept of how a Jedi would handle combat.

As for treasure, hopefully some time this century RL will allow Tim and I to return to game land.
Kyle
player, 125 posts
Crossbow of SCIENCE...
Or MAGIC? I always forget
Mon 26 Sep 2011
at 03:58
  • msg #77

Re: OOC part 2

  Take your time with it.  I'll put up posts for Scales later tonight, and I've edited Matt's initiative (16) into Ascension.
Mittens
GM, 783 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 26 Sep 2011
at 04:53
  • msg #78

Re: OOC part 2

Timothy, in the Room 15 with Jalissa in it.:
As the party searches, they find a gem, two potions of healing, and 180 gold pieces.


Parcel 7: Two potions of healing, 100 gp
Parcel 8: One 100 gp gem, 80 gp


Is this what you meant?  Because I can't find anywhere in the module where it says there's 2 treasure parcels in Room 17, the room with the kid in it.

Module:
Alcoves: Skeletal human remains are in alcoves
along the south wall of room 17. PCs who spend the
20 minutes necessary to search them (dividing the
work if necessary) find treasure parcel I.


I can't find any goof on Tim's part.
This message was last edited by the GM at 04:55, Mon 26 Sept 2011.
Kyle
player, 126 posts
Crossbow of SCIENCE...
Or MAGIC? I always forget
Mon 26 Sep 2011
at 05:02
  • msg #79

Re: OOC part 2

  Hmm...  Going back, searching for the Boy's name as a means of 'where in module we are' was a HGE FAILURE on my part -.-;

  I was indeed looking at LAST encounter's details in the Module.  Because it still mentions the kid, because it mentions Jallisa mentioning the kid.  And so much time has passed between two whole encounters that I've made a dumbass of myself.

  So yes, Tim did forget any parcels at all... But In turn, I was double checking the wrong entry for why I thought there were two instead of one <.<
This message was last edited by the player at 05:02, Mon 26 Sept 2011.
Elric
GM, 272 posts
Warforged Runepriest
Level 4
Mon 26 Sep 2011
at 07:21
  • msg #80

Re: OOC part 2

Funny thing I've found some interesting 'loopholes' with hybrid classes.

Shale can be pulled off even better as a Gnome Hybrid Wizard/Warlock (fey Pact) that gets both Hypnotism and Eyebite as at will powers, plus can pretty much go hog wild with 'make enemies do what you want them to' powers.

Gilant can be even more badass as a Githyanki Hybrid Swordmage (Shielding)/(Sorc-King) Warlock to have Eldritch Strike and Swordburst as at-wills, and once he gets Sigil Carver Paragon Path his opportunity attacks will be devastating (in that he can negate attacks using Eldritch Strike to push enemy out of range)

Michael can have even MORE durable with higher defenses by being made into a Warlord/Wizard allowing him to poach Lazy Warlord stuff and combine it with summoning and wizard control powers At wills become Commander's Strike (which becomes Melee 2 range with Staff Expertise which is sweet), Hypnotism, and Winged Horde. Compared to the old pure wizard version this one has +1hp (not counting toughness feat which hybrid michael can still take, just trying to figure out which would be lvl 4 feat improved defenses or toughness, would have both by lvl 6, level 8 is still up in the air, while level 10 would be a feat to improve my summons as I'd have 3 daily summons including the demon, plus 1 warlord daily), +2 AC, +1 Fort, and +2 Reflex...And with staff expertise can use a cheaper armor which means he'd already HAVE the Demonbound 'lvl 3 boon' compared to old pure wizard, with 100gp left over as he can also trade in the blessed book the pure wizard has (as hybrid wizard doesn't use a spellbook at all). Plus hilarity can occur if Michael MCs into cleric and then can use a Sun Disk of pelor holy symbol for his arcane powers... succubi dealing radiant damage?... Is it just me or is that silly beyond belief.

And if I bring Freedom back, I think I'll make him into a Cavalier shooting for Warforged Juggernaut and making him a mounted charger that will first ride a celestial battle tiger, then a celestial pegasus (paragon tier), and then a freaking celestial dragon (epic tier).
This message was last edited by the GM at 07:23, Mon 26 Sept 2011.
Timothius
GM, 285 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Mon 26 Sep 2011
at 14:34
  • msg #81

Re: OOC part 2

Elric:
Shale can be pulled off even better as a Gnome Hybrid Wizard/Warlock (fey Pact) that gets both Hypnotism and Eyebite as at will powers, plus can pretty much go hog wild with 'make enemies do what you want them to' powers.


Hypnotism is a "wtf" power that makes me wonder what WotC was thinking. With that power alone, I made my friend David vow he would never again make a map with bridges on it.

Elric:
Gilant can be even more badass as a Githyanki Hybrid Swordmage (Shielding)/(Sorc-King) Warlock to have Eldritch Strike and Swordburst as at-wills, and once he gets Sigil Carver Paragon Path his opportunity attacks will be devastating (in that he can negate attacks using Eldritch Strike to push enemy out of range)


Sadly, my familiarity with swordmage is next to nill. I keep meaning to play one, but always wind up not. Maybe I'll use the Sandbox to try it.

Elric:
Michael can have even MORE durable with higher defenses by being made into a Warlord/Wizard...


Hmm... I remember looking into Warlord/AnythingNotStr hybrid and finding a downside. Like maybe I was eventually forced to pick a STR power. I'll have to look into that again.

Elric:
succubi dealing radiant damage?... Is it just me or is that silly beyond belief.


Well technically, a succubus is a devil which means they speak the language of the heavenly angels and gods; Supernal (Which I thought silly to begin with, BUT it makes sense too O.o). And since tieflings are part-devil people, they too have been kind of like devils who potentially do radiant damage. Still, I feel your amusement. I made a demon character looking for redemption. Although knowing Michael, it would be more like he forces a summoned devil to do radiant damage, which would likely annoy the hell out of them. Pun not originally intended.
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:36, Mon 26 Sept 2011.
Hoal
player, 28 posts
BrB, ceasing to exist.
Back in five minutes.
Mon 26 Sep 2011
at 16:36
  • msg #82

Re: OOC part 2

Timothius:
Sadly, my familiarity with swordmage is next to nill. I keep meaning to play one, but always wind up not. Maybe I'll use the Sandbox to try it.

  Yes, I suppose I'm in the same boat.  Three threads I've written Hoal sheets for, three threads the sheets don't mean much.  I suppose with only once by comparison, you could have easily forgotten Mara-Kai is a Swordmage at all.

  Now off to RL I go.
Elric
GM, 273 posts
Warforged Runepriest
Level 4
Mon 26 Sep 2011
at 17:54
  • msg #83

Re: OOC part 2

Timothius:
Elric:
Shale can be pulled off even better as a Gnome Hybrid Wizard/Warlock (fey Pact) that gets both Hypnotism and Eyebite as at will powers, plus can pretty much go hog wild with 'make enemies do what you want them to' powers.

Hypnotism is a "wtf" power that makes me wonder what WotC was thinking. With that power alone, I made my friend David vow he would never again make a map with bridges on it.


Ya Hypnotism around traps, zones, hazardous terrain (including cliffs) can become a save or be out of the fight at-will but it is still fun to use against monsters.

Timothius:
Elric:
Gilant can be even more badass as a Githyanki Hybrid Swordmage (Shielding)/(Sorc-King) Warlock to have Eldritch Strike and Swordburst as at-wills, and once he gets Sigil Carver Paragon Path his opportunity attacks will be devastating (in that he can negate attacks using Eldritch Strike to push enemy out of range)

Sadly, my familiarity with swordmage is next to nill. I keep meaning to play one, but always wind up not. Maybe I'll use the Sandbox to try it.


Swordmages play uniquely in that they can enforce mark punishment at a range. Swordmage hybrids don't really loose much, and when paired up with another class that shares the same primary/secondary stats they can really become scary (Wizard/Swordmage is far superior to Bladesinger for example, and Swordmage/Warlock is also very nice, Swordmage/Artificer can also work well too.)

Timothius:
Elric:
Michael can have even MORE durable with higher defenses by being made into a Warlord/Wizard...

Hmm... I remember looking into Warlord/AnythingNotStr hybrid and finding a downside. Like maybe I was eventually forced to pick a STR power. I'll have to look into that again.


Unless you use retraining odds are you may eventually need to use a STR power, but they have enough Lazy Warlord powers that you can avoid it. Also nifty trick, Staff Expertise + Commander's Strike = Commander's Strike with a reach weapon. Also the only reason the trick works well now is that Battleleader gives heavy shield prof, and at paragon you can take shield mastery to get that +2AC/Reflex also to your Fort defense. Although if you want the ultimate Lazy Leader, Warlord/Shaman works very well.

Timothius:
Elric:
succubi dealing radiant damage?... Is it just me or is that silly beyond belief.

Well technically, a succubus is a devil which means they speak the language of the heavenly angels and gods; Supernal (Which I thought silly to begin with, BUT it makes sense too O.o). And since tieflings are part-devil people, they too have been kind of like devils who potentially do radiant damage. Still, I feel your amusement. I made a demon character looking for redemption. Although knowing Michael, it would be more like he forces a summoned devil to do radiant damage, which would likely annoy the hell out of them. Pun not originally intended.


With Michael it would be done solely to annoy the hell out of the demons/devils, too bad the demonbound isn't an implement power so he couldn't do it to that demon directly, but being able to turn all the other summons into radiant damage dealers would make him a radiant mafia compliant summoner, which is kind of scary if he goes Archmage to have summons each encounter, which would serve Michael better than Sage of Ages as the temporary buffs won't enhance summoned critters.

Still trying to decide if I should keep Elric as a Runepriest, or go back to Cleric with the Battle Lore, remake him into a Warlord, or could also try a Swordmage/Artificer combo or maybe a Runepriest/Cleric combo. Not really sure what to do with Elric.
Timothius
GM, 286 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Mon 26 Sep 2011
at 23:44
  • msg #84

Re: OOC part 2

Elric:
Ya Hypnotism around traps, zones, hazardous terrain (including cliffs) can become a save or be out of the fight at-will but it is still fun to use against monsters.


And that's just traps/zones/etc. Against monsters who have cheater-like At-wills (Oh hi! My at-will makes you dazed, immobilized, and take ongoing 5 damage (save ends) and all too often, this is just the monster's basic melee), all the sudden their cheater powers belong to ME. >:D

Hypnotism is Bard's Level 5 daily as an at-will and then some (Seriously... choice of basically dominated or slide 3 squares compared to just dominated). Not that I'm complaining. Just saying it's broken and unbalanced, but amusingly gives the player who controls a wizard the ability to strike back at the more broken At-Wills of the monsters.
Elric
GM, 274 posts
Warforged Runepriest
Level 4
Tue 27 Sep 2011
at 00:36
  • msg #85

Re: OOC part 2

That it does, and for both Shale and Michael with there approaches to combat, it fits.

Still have no clue what I should do with Elric... have considered making him into a Shardmind Bard just to see how that plays out. I've been playing him as a leader, but honestly not sure if that is best for him as mostly he has been just smacking stuff with a big weapon for the fights he has been in.

But honestly I'm not sure Elric's personality is best for a leader when you get to the core 'prankster' aspect, not really sure what class would represent that other than the Wizard/warlock combo I'm using with Shale for getting enemies to do what you want them to do. Actually could make a Warforged into an interesting Mage if I really wanted. (Con + str OR Int opens up several interesting options.) Could merge the Gilant Warlock/Swordmage and Elric if I wanted as Warforged make excellent conlocks and shielding swordmages. Would get better feat support that way too. Hmm so many options. Would consider mage for Elric but Elric is too much of a frontline fighter, swordmage/wizard fighting with a staff might be amusing though Could also pull artificer/wizard hmm.

Any suggestions on what I should try to remake Elric into for the next game I try to get him into?
Timothius
GM, 287 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Tue 27 Sep 2011
at 00:47
  • msg #86

Re: OOC part 2

One thought would be to go either Battlemind(Con/Wis)/Runepriest(Str/Con/Wis) to make use of Str/Con while not completely losing leader abilities (Though having a half-psionic class I'm usually hesitant to try due to loss of power points). Or Cleric/Runepriest could be fun as those were his prior two classes and both are leaders, and you could take Rune Master since there are other ways to enhance your heal powers besides Healer's Lore.

But I never knew Elric was a prankster. Thought he was just a kind, heroic, soldier of light. Which I loved about him, by the way.
Elric
GM, 275 posts
Warforged Runepriest
Level 4
Tue 27 Sep 2011
at 01:15
  • msg #87

Re: OOC part 2

Timothius:
One thought would be to go either Battlemind(Con/Wis)/Runepriest(Str/Con/Wis) to make use of Str/Con while not completely losing leader abilities (Though having a half-psionic class I'm usually hesitant to try due to loss of power points). Or Cleric/Runepriest could be fun as those were his prior two classes and both are leaders, and you could take Rune Master since there are other ways to enhance your heal powers besides Healer's Lore.

But I never knew Elric was a prankster. Thought he was just a kind, heroic, soldier of light. Which I loved about him, by the way.


Elric Pre 4th edition in other rpol games he was in was a bit of a prankster...example, at one point in time he 'dressed' up a commanding officier's mech with a pink mesh skirt (mesh that was painted pink to look like a dress) and rigged the Operating system to sing 'I feel pretty, oh so pretty' while booting up.
The warrior of light was cause he always was lighthearted and good natured, but he liked a good laugh when he could get it.

Had also thought about a Cavalier as a means of being a warrier of light, hilariously if I went that route could get a Dragon mount at epic levels...very funny since Timothius was the Paladin of bahamut.

And ya a Runepriest/Cleric using Battle Lore would have scale armor+2 shield AC and could wield a greatspear while using hybrid talent for the rune states which is a tempting combo as I could turn the best cleric str at will into a basic melee attack. And still have 2 encounter heals. That is something I may have to consider.
Mittens
GM, 785 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Tue 27 Sep 2011
at 04:02
  • msg #88

Re: OOC part 2

So there isn't any confusion: Sandbox is for Tim only.
Joe Darkthorne
player, 315 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Tue 27 Sep 2011
at 04:13
  • msg #89

Re: OOC part 2

  So, I was attempting to examine the text of my character sheets through the GM shortcut of all Charcter Descriptions having the 'Edit Character' button on the bottom of a Cast listing...  The button wasn't there.

  So, I took a look at the Cast listing... Hmm, I no longer have GM status...

  I wonder, oh I wonder what happened to it in the past few hours.


This message was last edited by the player at 04:22, Tue 27 Sept 2011.
Mittens
GM, 786 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Thu 29 Sep 2011
at 00:23
  • msg #90

Re: OOC part 2

GM status restored.  Tim and I may or may not be available for a few days.  RL hitting hard.
Mittens
GM, 787 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Thu 29 Sep 2011
at 04:40
  • msg #91

Re: OOC part 2

So I posted up my Jedi team in PM (so as to not clutter this thread)

The main thing I was aiming for was super stealth, init, and perc while taking advantage of solar enemy as much as possible.  Jury's still out if I'll use the erratta'd version or not.  I want to cram 3 combat encounters or so into a short (90 minute? Tim says 3 hour) time slot along with story, teaching newbs how to play the game, setup, tear down, etc.  So very likely will not use current solar enemy to keep encounters as fast as possible.  Just don't want them to be too fast.  I want to fill every last minute of my time slot with excitement, not end early.  Maybe just have extra encounters planned if it looks like I'm ahead of schedule.

So yeah.  Stealth and init for surprise round followed by possible nova.  Perc to make sure players don't blunder into anything deadly.  Lvl 4 to squeeze in feats, and still only 1 daily.  (In my experience nothing slows players more than head-scratching over what power to use.  Less is more.)  Went with 3,200 gp per char.  Jury's still out on using the +50% gp house rule.  Don't expect more gear to lessen combat time by much.

Next to do is make a 2nd option for each role.  No idea what I'm going to do for that other than Seth's suggestion for Warlock for striker role.

Feedback much appreciated.  I was surprised there was only 1 power pick I really wanted that wasn't included in my outdated charbuilder, namely, the invoker's falling leaves power.

EDIT:
Too cool not to share!
http://www.picsthatdontsuck.co...otion-lightning.html
This message was last edited by the GM at 04:57, Thu 29 Sept 2011.
Angel
player, 279 posts
Deceptively Charismatic
Dangerously Optimistic
Fri 30 Sep 2011
at 19:05
  • msg #92

Re: OOC part 2

Who is up on Ascension exactly? Why does Adam have a readied action when he and Angel are first up in the order? Need clarification as I don't know if Matt was waiting for Adam or you both were waiting for my intiative rolls (I just did them and edited them into the post)
Adam
player, 209 posts
The noblest leader
is the first to bow.
Mon 3 Oct 2011
at 03:54
  • msg #93

Re: OOC part 2

Ascention map ready.  Angel's 1st.
Adam
player, 210 posts
The noblest leader
is the first to bow.
Tue 4 Oct 2011
at 18:25
  • msg #94

Re: OOC part 2

Poking around with google docs and discovered google draw.  Introduced briefly at the tail end of this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...&feature=related

I tried it out thinking it might work well as a platform for online D&D fun.  It's ok, but doesn't do math for me like the spreadsheet does.  So I revisited the idea of using graphics in google docs spreadsheets.  Tim and I like the results and want to give it a try.  After the current Ascention encounter, we'll test drive the new system in the next encounter.

I already have the encounter set up.

http://spreadsheets.google.com...amp;authkey=CJ2s6PYE

Second tab over.

There's just a few things that need to be known.  The only way to move a player token is by clicking it to get the frame to appear, then move the mouse over to the upper right of the frame till a hand appears.  Click-hold to drag the image around.

I have an "area of effect" image to the lower right that looks like a transparent grid.  It's the only way I could figure for showing AoEs if needed.

Another option I bumped into was this: http://www.knowledgearcana.com/traipse-openrpg

But I don't have the brainpower to compute virtual game tables right now.
Angel
player, 282 posts
Deceptively Charismatic
Dangerously Optimistic
Wed 12 Oct 2011
at 00:18
  • msg #95

Re: OOC part 2

Reminder to Chris to post on Ascension
Surya Shemesh
player, 38 posts
Monster InternTM Sheets
We Know How You're Built
Sat 15 Oct 2011
at 23:49
  • msg #96

Re: OOC part 2

Not to be a killjoy or anything, but only supposed to get one action in a surprise round.  Which wouldn't really change much considering Seluku missed.  :p  I'm fine moving on with no changes since things are going in our favor.  ;)
Dark Sun Narrator
NPC, 40 posts
Click on me to see
the Campaign Notes
Sun 16 Oct 2011
at 01:09
  • msg #97

Re: OOC part 2

Bah your right...I was thinking people got full rounds.
For Seluku it really doesn't matter as he missed and he can summon as free action if he has to (would mean Tread is down a temp HP though), for Trace I'll just negate his shadow walk since he is still within the starting area and Eye of the vestige does curse its target or spread curse to another target (which can then get hit by the curse damage if it is already cursed.)
Edit: And now the posts are fixed. Thanks for pointing that out.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:14, Sun 16 Oct 2011.
Timothius
GM, 288 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Wed 19 Oct 2011
at 01:00
  • msg #98

Re: OOC part 2

A thank-you to Will for posting the DC chart in the house rules section. Now we all have a quick-and-easy reference. :) He even went to the trouble of making it an actual table! :)
Mittens
GM, 792 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Thu 20 Oct 2011
at 01:41
  • msg #99

Re: AUSA mechanics

So I found out all the other GMs at AUSA will be running Star Wars and D&D.  Sure I was the only one combining the two, but I can't help but feel like it's lame the con goers will have a choice between Star Wars, D&D, or Star Wars \ D&D hybrid.

So what I want to do to make things a little more interesting is instead of pre-genning a radiant mafia jedi team, I'll make some generic character options and players can choose from those options to build a character from scratch.

Player: "I want to play as Vegeta."
Me: "OK.  Choose a role.  Defender, Striker, Leader, or Controller." (Explains each role)
Player: "Striker fits him best.  High single target damage, and couldn't give a hoot about helping teammates."
Me: "OK here's your charsheet.  You start with 4 chargen points.  You can spend those points to buy feats and special abilities.  Here's a list:"
- Devastating attacks: Change your damage dice to 1d12, brutal 2, high crit. Cost: 1
- Sharp Eye: Once per encounter, reroll your attack.  Cost: 1
- Dodgy: Once per encounter, enemy must reroll it's attack on you.  Cost: 1
- Heightened speed: Add +4 to your initiative rolls.  Cost: 1
- God-like speed: You always go before all of your enemeis.  Cost: 2
...and so on.

Basically this means I condense all classes and their many race and build combos into 4 super generic "roles" complete with powers, HP, and defenses.  They don't have any gear per-se.  Just numbers on a page, and a naked character that can do +10vAC; 1d8+5 damage with whatever flavored attack they want.  Also, condense the feats and racial powers into a short-ish list of chargen options.  Considering offering an extra chargen point to anyone who signs up ahead of time as a reward.

Here's what I've got so far.

https://docs.google.com/spread...NnV5bXc&hl=en_US

Posting this here for feedback, commentary, or whatever.

Oh.  And why drop the radiant mafia when I wanted short encounters?  Because I'm just going to secretly lower monster HP if the fights start going on too long.

Player: "What do you mean it's dead already?  It's only taken 40 damage.  I played this same game yesterday and I noticed it took over 50 damage to take it out."

Me: "It didn't roll so well on it's hit dice today."
Kyle
player, 133 posts
Crossbow of SCIENCE...
Or MAGIC? I always forget
Thu 20 Oct 2011
at 08:06
  • msg #100

Re: AUSA mechanics

  Since you'd probably forget without a written note.
  Don't offer bonus points for special specific people.

  As for scales, DC 20 Skill check is BS DC, Mitten's aces that 'shut down barrier' check with sane DCs...

  Though I'm further confused, if you intended to use the old insane DCs, suggested by her not just shutting the thing down (since she rolled an 18 for Arcana)... How the hell is she pointing out the 'it turns off for a fraction of a second' thing when her perc check was even WORSE? (roll of 12, only one attempt allowed, Still DC 20 from Module As Written).
This message was last edited by the player at 08:07, Thu 20 Oct 2011.
Mittens
GM, 793 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Thu 20 Oct 2011
at 18:16
  • msg #101

Re: Stupid Module

Thanks for the feedback.  On to the other topic:

quote:
Disrupting the circle requires a successful DC
20 Thievery, Arcana, and/or Perception (no retries) to
notice that the circle sometimes flickers out of existence
for a split-second.


I ran this through 3 different online grammar checkers, and none of them choked on it.  But I sure did.  To translate what it says to me:

"Disrupting the circle requires a successful skill check to notice something about the circle."

"Successful skill check" meaning any character can try 1, 2, or 3 different skill checks: Thievery, Arcana, and/or Perception.

I opted to try all 3.  I succeeded all three.  I posted that I successfully "noticed something."

How on earth noticing something about the circle disrupts the circle is a mystery to me.  Does the circle get embarrassed Mittens figured it out and then shut down in shame?  That doesn't make any sense.  I figured this must mean that they expect you to use the split second that it's down to snatch a prisoner.

If they expected you to figure out you're supposed to smudge the runes of the circle the moment the power flickers off, that doesn't make much sense because the runes would be smudged in the process of what they describe as the initial triggering of the trap:

quote:
If the circle is vacant, then there’s no
barrier and anyone can walk (or be pushed) in. At that
point the barrier reappears and the trap resets.


Not to mention the occupant could smudge the runes.  So...  I guess to answer your question, my intention was "Yes, Mittens succeeded the DC check.  Even with original DC.  (Rolled an 18.  Her arcana skill is 10.)  Problem solved."  I just was trying to write some sense into module nonsense.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:19, Thu 20 Oct 2011.
Timothius
GM, 289 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Thu 20 Oct 2011
at 19:37
  • msg #102

Re: Stupid Module

I was confused too, even after reading this. Then Chris explained the *roll* was 18. So his total was actually 28. He was just saying he would have beat even the old arcana check. But we ARE going by the errata Dice Charts.
Kyle
player, 134 posts
Crossbow of SCIENCE...
Or MAGIC? I always forget
Thu 20 Oct 2011
at 20:52
  • msg #103

Re: Stupid Module

Mittens:
I just was trying to write some sense into module nonsense.

  Yeah, this right here accounts for sooo many things all of us do that can seem strange.  We get a 'win' either way with your original post different events, so end result is the same.  Pleasant too since if we weren't playing more fast and loose with Scales now, this could have been a potential 'you can not finish dungeon' check.
Timothius
GM, 290 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sat 22 Oct 2011
at 21:36
  • msg #104

Re: Stupid Module

Testing the new colors! Yay upgraded RPOL! And it was only down for 1 hour. XD And they have GRAY!! I've been waiting for that!

(Including old colors for comparison)
Normal (Black or white, depending on RPOL theme) Gray
Red Royal Red Rose Coral
Orange Goldenrod
Aqua Seagreen
Blue
Dark Blue
Green Seagreen
Dark Green
Brown Royal Red
Purple Lavender
Yellow Goldenrod
Pink
Royal Red
Coral
Goldenrod
Seagreen
Periwinkle
Lavender
Rose
Gray

.......looks like the colors don't work. I guess that's going to be some later update? Anyway, we'll see.

Posted on the RPOL Technical Discussions thread and got my solution!

Timothius:
I wasn't sure where to look for or post on this topic, but I've noticed RPOL had added new colors to the font! I was very excited to try them, but oddly they aren't working.

Royalred as an example. The old colors still work fine, though. :)


cruinne:
Your browser has likely cached the old version of the CSS.  Try forcing a refresh -- which might be, depending on your browser and OS:
  • shift + refresh/reload button
  • shift + F5
  • control + F5
  • control + refresh/reload button


And this worked. XD I love the new colors!





This message was last edited by the GM at 21:36, Sat 22 Oct 2011.
Elric
GM, 276 posts
Warforged Runepriest
Level 4
Sun 23 Oct 2011
at 01:18
  • msg #105

Re: Stupid Module

Nice, I am tempted to shift Trace's speech color to grey... given his connections to the Shadowfell aka The grey in Dark Sun.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 316 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Sun 23 Oct 2011
at 01:26
  • msg #106

Re: Stupid Module

   Goldenrod may be more letters to type, but I've done Yellow as speech color.  It hurts my eyes to properly read blocks of yellow text (Tread is fine, her bolding it makes it work).
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 317 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Sun 23 Oct 2011
at 11:26
  • msg #107

Re: Stupid Module

From the Excerpt article on Satyr's, with a surprise for Altoholics.  No, not Alignment restriction.

Satyr
Adventurous fey, wild revelers, curious explorers
Racial Traits
Average Height: 5´2˝–5´10˝
Average Weight: 120–190 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Charisma; +2 Dexterity or +2 Constitution
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Low-light vision
Languages: Common, Elven
Skill Bonuses: +2 Nature, +2 Thievery

Male Only: All satyrs are male.

Fey Origin: Your ancestors were native to the Feywild, so you are considered a fey creature for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin.

Light of Heart: You can make saving throws both at the start of your turn and  the end of your turn
against fear effects that a save can end.

Pleasant Recovery: You regain 1d8 additional hit points for each healing surge You spend during a short rest.

Sly Words: Bluff is always a class skill for you.

Lure of Enchantment: You have the lure of enchantment power.


Lure of Enchantment Satyr Racial Utility
A softly sung tune causes your enemy to wander as you direct it.
Encounter Free Charm
Free Action Special
Trigger: You hit an enemy with an attack.
Effect: You slide the enemy up to 3 squares, but not into hindering terrain. The enemy grants combat advantage until the end of your next turn.
This message was last edited by the GM at 11:26, Sun 23 Oct 2011.
Elric
GM, 277 posts
Warforged Runepriest
Level 4
Sun 23 Oct 2011
at 15:50
  • msg #108

Re: Stupid Module

Well Nymphs are all female and I've never even heard of a mythological accounts of a female Satyr, or a male Nymph.
Timothius
GM, 291 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sun 23 Oct 2011
at 17:26
  • msg #109

Re: Stupid Module

Rhagar:
  "Just so we're clear, which head would be doing the chewing?"  Hey, these are important details if Pyro wants to make good on his threat.


I can just see it now...
White head: "White dragons don't get much love. I should eat him!"
Green head: "No! He's mine!"
Black head: "Some head's green with envy..."
Green head: "Hey! At least I'm not associated with a zit!"
Red head: "He'll probably just ask ME to eat him."
White head: "Say what? Why?"
Red head: "Because humanoids think red heads are hot. And I am!" *throws fire*
Blue head: "I'm blue, da-ba-dee da-ba-diiie!"

Joe Darkthorne:
   Goldenrod may be more letters to type, but I've done Yellow as speech color.  It hurts my eyes to properly read blocks of yellow text (Tread is fine, her bolding it makes it work).


Tread is orange, not yellow. :p So that's part of why hers is readable.

Joe Darkthorne:
From the Excerpt article on Satyr's, with a surprise for Altoholics.  No, not Alignment restriction.

Male Only: All satyrs are male.


Yeah. Kinda like Succubus (female only) and Incubus (male only). Thanks for the data on the new race! :)
Mittens
GM, 794 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 24 Oct 2011
at 04:39
  • msg #110

Re: Stupid Module

Wrote this up for a friend who I'm allowing him to play as a neutral shifter shaman who comes from a tribe that allows cannibalism as part of their primal religion.  Posted here for your amusement.



About alignment.

http://www.filehurricane.com/v...5505PM_alignment.jpg

There's a reason for that.  Tim and I have met a large number of players who, like Ed, believe "neutral" means "I can do whatever I want whenever I want on a whim."  No.  That's chaotic evil in our opinion.  Loooong way away from neutral.  So I figured I'd look up the "book" definition of the alignments.  Two whole pages on the topic.  Pg 19-20.

quote:
The Evil Alignment
It is my right to claim what others possess.

Evil characters don’t necessarily go out of their way to hurt people, but they’re perfectly willing to take advantage of the weakness of others to acquire what they want.


Very very important point.  This is where many excuse evil as "neutral."  "My guy's not evil.  He only decapitates people who make him angry."  No.  That's not neutral, that's evil.  Very very evil.  If someone decapitated a friend of yours because that friend insulted them, you'd agree.

quote:
The Chaotic Evil Alignment
I don’t care what I have to do to get what I want.

Chaotic evil characters have a complete disregard for others.


Being chaotic evil is a lot like being unapologetically rude.  "I don't care if I hurt you" is not neutral.  That's evil.  Very very evil.  Think spouse/child abuse.  You don't have to decapitate your wife or child to be chaotic evil.  You just have to be so irredeemably selfish that you don't care when you hurt them.

quote:
Unaligned
Just let me go about my business.

If you’re unaligned, you don’t actively seek to harm others or wish them ill. But you also don’t go out of your way to put yourself at risk without some hope
for reward.


In other words, unaligned = an ordinary person.  Sometimes angry, sometimes generous, but usually only returns what's given them.

For reference, nother fun poster:

http://writingiseasier.files.w...-alignment-chart.jpg
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 318 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Mon 24 Oct 2011
at 05:12
  • msg #111

Re: Stupid Module

  Cannibal PC?  Didn't that fail the last time Yayvid ran that?  Or am I thinking of a different thing in the past I've heard of. I never fit 'alignments' anyway, I tend to at best be 'would be this alignment if not for X'.  I forget what system it was that listed things such as scrupulous, unscrupulous, anarchist, etc but in that one you had 'Basically Han Solo', which I'd fit... EXCEPT I'd be fine with torturing someone or killing someone when they were helpless,   Meanwhile the 'lowest grade end selfish bastard' one would fit me great except for the fact you're not allowed to do selfless acts.

  I seem to be more 'I can't be good because I'm willing do to stock evil things.  I'm not allowed to get the benefits of an evil alignment because the majority of the time I'm doing good'.

  A possible alternative to debating alignment specifically, if you think Yayvid is going to cause problems with a character aspect, ask them not to do it?  Or, ask them if being a cannibal is an essential part of the character, and why.  As well as 'okay, ritualistic cannibal or MUST EAT EVERY FACE cannibal?'.  It's not really alignment issues that I foresee being the problem at all, but being disruptive and attention getting to everything in a visible radius.

  Granted, if you were running a party of maniacs like there was on that thread, who cares he's probably the least messed up of the bunch then.
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:12, Mon 24 Oct 2011.
Timothius
GM, 292 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Mon 24 Oct 2011
at 05:18
  • msg #112

Re: Stupid Module

It's not that thread, but you have the correct character in mind (Nicholas Sabrin). It's for a 4e campaign Chris will be running for Byron. Cannibalism is an *almost* essential part of Nicholas (He managed to not be a cannibal in Star Wars, but then, he wasn't a lycan either). It's kind of like what being a cleric is to Callie. It's not essential, but it's a part of her. I *could* play Callie as a rogue just fine and still be perfectly in character, but cleric just seems to fit, you know?

The ritualistic eating is kind of a way Chris found to help Yayvid enjoy the cannibalism without being evil.
Mittens
GM, 795 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 24 Oct 2011
at 05:19
  • msg #113

Re: Ohmnomnom

Joe Darkthorne:
  Granted, if you were running a party of maniacs like there was on that thread, who cares he's probably the least messed up of the bunch then.


Yeah pretty much.  Wasn't enjoying that thread.  Glad it died.

Basically it's the "if you nom nom your fallen enemies in a ritualistic manner, you might become stronger for it.  Also their spirit lives on in your lower intestine in a sort of smelly hell, but they might get back at you with indigestion."
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 319 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Mon 24 Oct 2011
at 06:04
  • msg #114

Re: Ohmnomnom

  ...I'm expecting this to be erratad. it has to be.  This is insane, and it is a COMMON weapon.

Magnificent Emporium:
Punishing WeaponLevel 8+ Common
After you strike your foe with this weapon, your enemy appears mote vulnerable as its will to stand up to you drains away.
Lvl 8  +2 3,400 gp Lvl 23 +5 425,000 gp
Lvl 13 +3 17,000 gp Lvl 28 +6 2,125,000 gp
Lvl 18 +4 85,000 gp

Weapon: Any

Enhancement Bonus: Attack rolls and damage rolls

Critical: +1d6 damage per plus
Property

The first time each round you hit an enemy with this weapon, you can choose to inflict a wound on the enemy. You gain a cumulative power bonus to damage rolls against the enemy for each of these wounds that you have inflicted on it. Each wound contributes half the weapon’s enhancement bonus to the power bonus. The wounds end on the enemy when you hit another enemy with the weapon or at the end of the encounter.


  Am I reading this right?  No mention of a limit on how many wounds at all?  Okay, so fighting a Solo if you had the +6 version, that's +3 first hit, then +6, then +9, +12, +15, etc.  Now imagine dual wielding some of these.  No problems getting your hand's on two of them for your dual wielder, it's Common.
This message was last edited by the GM at 06:04, Mon 24 Oct 2011.
Timothius
GM, 293 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Mon 24 Oct 2011
at 12:25
  • msg #115

Re: Ohmnomnom

Reminds me of the Songblade (which I think was Players Handbook 2). In a test, I got the song blade to give my party members over 50 extra damage each.

....yeah Songblade is still more broken than this punishing weapon. Not that the punishing isn't broken.
Elric
GM, 278 posts
Warforged Runepriest
Level 4
Mon 24 Oct 2011
at 18:07
  • msg #116

Re: Ohmnomnom

Dual wielding wouldn't accelerate the effect as they wouldn't stack with each other in that fashion.
The first strike with the left hand weapon would be +3, hit with the right hand weapon in same round it is also +3 not +6 as its wounds do not stack with the wounds of the left weapon. Also the 'count' stops and resets when you strike a new target with that weapon.

Yes it is a strong 'common' weapon but it is also 2 levels higher than the equivalent basic magic weapon. Compare it to a Radiant Weapon (which is a higher level, and not a common weapon.) You have to hit a mob with it 3 times (meaning three rounds of hits) before it reaches the same combined amount of bonus damage that you hit a mob using a radiant weapon (assuming you only strike with the radiant weapon once per round as it doesn't have that 1/round limit on its extra radiant damage bonus). As 3x enchantment bonus of Radiant Weapon equals the same as 1/2 enchantment bonus + enchantment bonus + 1.5x enchantment bonus for a punishing weapon. Assuming an attack once per round, more frequent attacks means that the Radiant Weapon stays ahead longer before the punishing catches up to it and odds are the mob won't live that long.

Most normal mobs won't survive 3 rounds of being focus fired by a party so on average the radiant weapon is more damaging, especially since there are mobs that are vulnerable to radiant or can be given vulnerability to radiant, while vulnerable to all is much harder to inflict on a mob as there is no way to add a damage type to the 'wound damage' from a punishing weapon.

But then again there are people who think Radiant Weapons are broken due to the Radiant Mafia group builds.

And if you think that item is crazy, look up this item independent build that is even more WTF...
http://community.wizards.com/g...rom_rooms_away.?pg=1
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:07, Mon 24 Oct 2011.
Elric
GM, 279 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread. :(
Wed 26 Oct 2011
at 04:14
  • msg #117

Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Was wondering if anyone had any ideas for a thread where I could test out one or more (if needed) of the character concepts I mentioned a while back that I wanted to test out.

Shale -> Gnome Hybrid Wizard/Warlock (fey Pact)

Gilant -> Githyanki Hybrid Swordmage (Shielding)/(Sorc-King) Warlock

Michael -> (Lazy) Warlord/(Summoner) Wizard

Freedom -> Warforged Cavalier (shooting for Warforged Juggernaut PP)

Elric -> Hybrid between Fighter, Cleric, Runepriest (Considering both Fighter/Cleric and Cleric/Runepriest)

Depending on what they allow for Druids I might bring Durtendin (Wilden) back as some alternative form of Druid (may consider a Sentinel) but right now Druid support is rather blarg. A Hybrid Sentinel (Druid) is also possible as hybrid sentinels seem to end up with more at-wills than pure Sentinels. (That is strange but how it seems to work.)
Mittens
GM, 796 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Wed 26 Oct 2011
at 06:06
  • msg #118

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

SoW will be needing new chars since the three shifter siblings will be exiting stage left.  May I think will also be moving aside to make room for something else.  Whatever random pick Tim's in the mood for for any given adventure.  I'll likely just plug whatever hole is left once you pick what you want to play.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 320 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Wed 26 Oct 2011
at 10:35
  • msg #119

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

  Kyle's sticking around for Scales.  Working on a Vampire class Human for if/when Quartilia opens back up.  Need to think of a last name that sounds exactly the same when spoken if you switch a letter in it.
This message was last edited by the GM at 10:35, Wed 26 Oct 2011.
Mittens
GM, 797 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Thu 27 Oct 2011
at 04:13
  • msg #120

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

So the lineup for SoW is Kyle artificer, and Angel monk.
Elric
GM, 280 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread. :(
Thu 27 Oct 2011
at 04:57
  • msg #121

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Was going to be tossing Gilant and Shale into SoW, Freedom into Thudnerspire, and Michael into Quartilia. Still need to update Shale's character sheet but got the other three ready to go. Unless I forgot to update a component in which case I can fix it as all 4 are already updated in character builder as best as possible. (Freedom is bugged in the Character builder, can't acquire/buy a Tusk shield as it refuses to add it to inventory... but that is a known bug in CB, but I have it correct in his character sheet.)

Edit: Update, I've now gotten Shale's character sheet updated as well sop all 4 should be ready to go.
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:52, Thu 27 Oct 2011.
Monster Intern
player, 83 posts
Monster Party!
Monster Prices!
Fri 28 Oct 2011
at 04:25
  • msg #122

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

  Surya Lv 2, pre back to town shopping sheet update made.

  I assumed you'd want staff expertise.  Do you still want Divine protection utility now that you have it?  Staff attacks wont provoke AoO anymore, but that utility lasts until start of your next turn so good for moving to safety without AoO.

EDIT: And now Shield Utility edited in.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:36, Fri 28 Oct 2011.
Mittens
GM, 798 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Fri 28 Oct 2011
at 21:40
  • msg #123

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

So the lineup for SoW is:

Kyle artificer,
Angel monk,
Gilant swordmage,
Shale warlock

Hmm.  Not sure what to do with the 5th spot.  Maybe if Tim wants to play a 2nd char, I'll just not play a char and run NPCs only.
Timothius
GM, 294 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sat 29 Oct 2011
at 00:26
  • msg #124

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

I think I have some extra ideas for Quartilia. I'mma try to get that posted tonight, but no guarantees. XD
Mittens
GM, 799 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sat 29 Oct 2011
at 00:29
  • msg #125

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

I've decided to play as Icarus.  I'll go with pixie for the perma-flight gag.
Quartilia Narrator
NPC, 2 posts
Click me for details
concerning the campaign
Sat 29 Oct 2011
at 00:52
  • msg #126

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Posted Quartilia. Please read all as I have altered it some from the original Quartilia post.
Shale
player, 62 posts
Gnome, Level 2
Mage (Enchanter)
Sat 29 Oct 2011
at 03:40
  • msg #127

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Doing some last moment adjustments.

I realized that with the powers I was going for... Shale is better off as a Mage (Enchanter) as he focuses on charming people since he has to give up teleporting to ride a Fey Beast Companion (otherwise he'd be continually dismounting himself). He'll still be MCing into Warlock to get Entrancing Mystic (as it is both fitting for his character, and frankly it's a good paragon path) I'll have Shale adjusted before the end of the night.

(Still keeping the Fey Beast Tamer theme...its just with a mount, teleporting around is not that good of an idea as teleport = dismount.)
Mittens
GM, 800 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sat 29 Oct 2011
at 05:02
  • msg #128

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

That works.  And remember, if ever you need to rebuild completely from scratch, you can do so.  :)
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 321 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Sat 29 Oct 2011
at 05:05
  • msg #129

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Important detail of Fail for Icaurs lazy export.

Greatbow prof training as a feat? what? WHY?  Pixies cant even USE those.  because " When wielding a weapon of your size, you follow the same rules that Small creatures do.".  Made even more headscratching because Halflings cant use em either but that seems to be the race placeholder in tools used due to the strikethrough.
Mittens
GM, 801 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sat 29 Oct 2011
at 05:20
  • msg #130

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

was wondering why it wouldn't let me equip it.
Shale
player, 63 posts
Gnome, Level 2
Mage (Enchanter)
Sat 29 Oct 2011
at 06:53
  • msg #131

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Okay got my character sheet updated as a Mage (Enchanter).
Will be posting as Michael in Quartilia shortly.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 322 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Sat 29 Oct 2011
at 10:22
  • msg #132

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

  So, turns out Sword Of The Stars 2 came out yesterday (I guess Steam pre-order didn't include steam Auto DL when ready).

  This is for the best I didn't notice, as my expectations were correct.  Launch day 'Game is Borked'.  They put out a Closed Beta Version nobody could use <.<  So I'll be opening up to 'Okay, this is the version that was supposed to be on launch we swear' edition if I get around to playing any tomorrow (and they fix it like they say they plan to "It's Uploading" could mean any time).

 Semi-Related, SWOTS 1 Complete Collection is Five Bucks on Steam instead of $20 until Oct 31st.
This message was last edited by the GM at 10:35, Sat 29 Oct 2011.
Mittens
GM, 802 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sat 29 Oct 2011
at 18:13
  • msg #133

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

I'm tempted to make a CoX architect mission where you get to pulverize game developers.
Tread
player, 34 posts
Prissy, girly girl
...who's a TANK
Sat 29 Oct 2011
at 18:35
  • msg #134

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

As per the new colors, I'll be using goldenrod for Tread from now on as that's EXACTLY her color. :) Yay new colors.
Elric
GM, 281 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Sat 29 Oct 2011
at 19:12
  • msg #135

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Mittens:
I'm tempted to make a CoX architect mission where you get to pulverize game developers.


Somehow I could see that being hilarious (if not simply ironic) that if the mission became popular enough that eventually the game developers themselves played and enjoyed the mission.
Tread
player, 35 posts
Prissy, girly girl
...who's a TANK
Sat 29 Oct 2011
at 19:35
  • msg #136

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Knowing the CoX developers? Yeah. They are cool people like that.
Also, my characters for Dark Sun are now up to date and level 2.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 323 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Sat 29 Oct 2011
at 21:44
  • msg #137

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Hey now, as long as you specify its the COMPETITION, they'd probably be fine with 'Whack A Developer'.
Timothius
GM, 295 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sat 29 Oct 2011
at 21:50
  • msg #138

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Especially if it was Marvel or Microsoft. Thanks to the bad blood that happened with the lawsuit that lead to "make a Marvel MMO for us and we'll call it even" out-of-court settlement, that lead to Marvel making deals with the Devil via Microsoft, that lead to the Marvel MMO being canceled.

Granted, Cryptic made lemonade from those lemons and turned the half-done project into Champions instead, but still. :)
Emerald
player, 134 posts
Vixen Rogue
Arcane Singer
Mon 31 Oct 2011
at 04:02
  • msg #139

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Peter Tarken:
OOC Style: I'm sure all of us have at some point come across some story where 'Player knows a little spanish, so GM lets that count as amount of elven known'.  My favorite version though was 'To other players, Elven sounds like a beautiful and haunting language.  To the Elf PC, they hear stereotype voodoo Jive talk'.


Not sure I understand. Tell me the whole story?
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 324 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Mon 31 Oct 2011
at 08:20
  • msg #140

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

  Alas, I don't remember the exact wording, and don't know where or what thread I heard the specifics in beyond it being on Somethingawful forums.
Raichel
player, 143 posts
Lightning Reflexes
50,000 volts worth
Mon 31 Oct 2011
at 17:46
  • msg #141

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Researching staff fighting for Raichel (mostly for drawing purposes, but also to help myself be further in character with her when in combat) and came across something fun; Raichel stumbling across a gentleman's guide to fighting with a cane.

http://www.elite-fighters.com/...e/cane_fighting2.htm
Mittens
GM, 803 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 31 Oct 2011
at 19:04
  • msg #142

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Awesome!
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 325 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Mon 31 Oct 2011
at 19:46
  • msg #143

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Michael:
Then again Michael remembers the old adage 'curiosity killed the cat' and wonders if it applies to other species as well.. Michael then frowns as he realizes the same adage can apply to himself as well, given the nature of his research.


  This reminds me, since Tim deleted the original parts of the Quartilia thread it's not stated anywhere Emerald is sporting the Halfling look (or are they now?) instead of the usual fox look.  As the only mention of such is now gone, while there are still all the usual indicators of IS FOX.
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:52, Mon 31 Oct 2011.
Joey
player, 8 posts
Mon 31 Oct 2011
at 20:48
  • msg #144

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Emerald:
A hooded, cloaked humanoid half the dragonborn's size enters the Inn. The small one takes the cloak's hood off to reveal a dry freckly redhead halfling.

Joe Darkthorne
GM, 326 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Mon 31 Oct 2011
at 21:09
  • msg #145

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

  What does one say in this situation?  ah, yes.

  Duuuuuuuuuur! @.@
Tread
player, 37 posts
Prissy, girly girl
...who's a TANK
Wed 2 Nov 2011
at 17:21
  • msg #146

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Tread doesn't have any of her RP stuff filled out in her character sheet. I'll need to fix that sometime. Maybe a reminder from Joe when I'm on IM next time or something (currently on my dad's computer, which I expressly try not to spend to much time on a given post or such, lest I get kicked off by a parent and lose everything.)
Mittens
GM, 807 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Thu 3 Nov 2011
at 21:51
  • msg #147

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Terdisas:
  Superbird looks over to Mittens, <serif>"Does this mean you're a fictional cat lady because there's that story about the Shifter with the growing sword? Tweet?"


While trying to find out what in the world he's talking about, I found this:
http://i13.tinypic.com/62sunid.jpg
(Shifter with sword.  Riiiight.)

Tim figured out he's talking about Thundercats.  So I wind up finding out that Lion-O was the voice of Count Chocula and Sonny the Cuckoo Bird.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Kenney

Also, Epic pic:
http://www.zoom-comics.com/arc...ndercats-vs-he-man-2
Monster Intern
player, 84 posts
Monster Party!
Monster Prices!
Fri 4 Nov 2011
at 10:53
  • msg #148

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

  Proper Icarus Sheet Uploaded.

  EDIT: If Seth is using a Radiance Shard for Gilant's Sunblade, then yeah I think we're all in agreement Ice Shard for Frost weapon works just as well.

  For the moment, Icarus Sheet has been written assuming it does work and assuming Cold damage is being used for damage total (+8 DMG at lv 2, with potential for +9 if Bow Expertise Gimmick triggers, yeesh).  Also, congratulations your tiny pixie has more HP than anyone else in the party <.<

 Also, when they made all those changes to Fly, Fly can shift now right (not that it matters too much with altitude Limit 1)? I'm still brain locked into the old 'Hover is Combat flight, Fly=Haha you're going to SUFFER in combat' stuff.

  Also Also, The Sequel, I finished this at like 7:00 in the morning so proofreading was not my strong point.  I'll stare at it more later.

  Some reminders of the Quirks of Tiny Size. (I'm expecting errata in regards to Pixies, or notes in the finished product of Feywild book).

  Things two sizes smaller or larger can move through a Non-Helpless Enemy's space. (So, Tiny can move through medium enemy space, but not Small Enemy Space or Tiny enemy space, the mind boggles.  This still of course Triggers AoO).
  Tiny creatures can end their turn inside a large enough creature's square, but moving into their tile Triggers Movement AoO (Guess you can't shift into or through an occupied square regardless?).

  I'm picturing a LOT of enemies muscling in on Icarus's space if they aren't a back row blaster.
This message was last edited by the player at 11:12, Fri 04 Nov 2011.
Icarus
player, 4 posts
Monster InternTM Sheets
We Know How You're Built
Fri 4 Nov 2011
at 14:10
  • msg #149

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Much thanks!  :)

Now I know what bow expertise even does, heh.  Guess I'll be picking on lone enemies.

Surya adds:
quote:
Current Turn is: (*)

Nice touch on the DS map, Seth!

Oh!  I've been meaning to mention.  According to the PHB2 FAQ, Spirit Companions do not provoke AoOs.  http://wizards.custhelp.com/ap...ers/detail/a_id/1695

quote:
2. Does a shaman’s spirit companion provoke opportunity attacks?

    The spirit companion is a conjuration, not a creature, so it doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks. Unless otherwise noted, a noncreature doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks.

Elric
GM, 282 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Fri 4 Nov 2011
at 15:58
  • msg #150

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Shards like the radiant and cold shards add damage when the augmented WEAPON is used to make attacks with that damage type keyword, in Michael's case Radiant, and in Icarus' case Cold. So yes these shards boost damage dealt by weapons (even when said weapons are used as implements).

The sole exception to this is the Mage shard which adds its damage to damage rolls with implement attacks that use the augmented weapon, instead of attacks with a specific damage type keyword.

Thus for staff users like Shale and Michael, the Mage shard would work for their implement attacks, but not Michael's warlord attacks (although Michael is sticking with lazy warlord powers so that is a moot point anyways.

Spirit companions don't trigger AoOs.... interesting. The really neat part on that page you linked is that conjured spirits can also float so they can attack things in the air, or I could float the spirit of athas (which is a conjuration just like the spirit companion) and make it work as a 3x3 zone beneath it...I'll do that and have it floating, next round Seluku will move it to over Fletch's head so it can affect the entire party.
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:09, Fri 04 Nov 2011.
Raichel
player, 144 posts
Lightning Reflexes
50,000 volts worth
Sat 5 Nov 2011
at 01:10
  • msg #151

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

I'm curious what you guys (Will and Seth) can find that would assist Raichel with damage in my campaign. Thanks to talks with Will about Pyromancer, I'm a lot more satisfied in thinking of Pyromancer as a striker (rather than its mislabeled controller). However, I'm still curious about what kinds of damage feats I can take and how I can get more AoE from my powers when I'm limited to only lightning and thunder powers (My character literally can't use powers outside of those keyewords because of who she is). My limited resources have shown these results for damage feats (I list feat bonuses where there are feat bonuses, otherwise, just assume it's a flat bonus):

Devastating Critical (11th level. +1d10 dmg on crit)
Dual Implement Spellcaster (Add enh bonus to dmg when weilding an implement in each hand)
Echoes of Thunder (When you git with thunder, +1 dmg rolls until end of next turn)
Lightning Arc (11th level. Instead of max dmg on crit, roll dmg. Another enemy in 10 takes same dmg as main target)
Rapid Assault (+2 dmg rolls on first turn in encounter)
Two-Weapon Fighting (While holding melee weapon in each hand, gain +1 to dmg rolls with main weapon)
White Lotus Riposte (Enemy you hit with at-will; if they attack you, they take dmg equal to the mod (cha))

(And accuracy feats can help with damage in that if you don't hit, you can't do damage at all):
Oncoming Storm (When you hit with lightning, +1 to thunder attack until end of next turn.)
Versitile Expertise (+1 feat bonus to attack rolls with weapon and implement choice)

Also, took a look at Surging Flame. When you use a fire power to hit a target that has fire resistance, any fire power deals extra 5 fire damage until the end of your next turn. Now imagine you ignore fire resistance normally, that fire damage is no longer compensating, but adding. But since I'm not fire, that doesn't help my case.

Anyway... that's just what I've found so far. Your help is appreciated. Now for me to go post!
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 328 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Sat 5 Nov 2011
at 02:15
  • msg #152

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

  It's been so long since Ive read up or had in mind Monk stuff personally.  I Never looked at the other Paragon paths outside of 'requires Stone Fist Monk' Mountain Devotee.  Which includes 'Punching and Flurry Hurts even MORE!' (that the tools did not apply -.-).

  Dual Implement spellcaster is tricky because of the requirements of HOLDING two implements in each hand, bare hands+focus don't count for that.  Same problem for all of the two weapon feats, which only work for WEAPON attacks anyways.  However, as you are likely Dex/Wis, you will have the stat requirements for both Staff Fighting (turns a staff into a double weapon), and Dual implement, THEN it would work.

  However, Dual Implement Spellcaster only buffs ARCANE attack powers.  So Two-Weapon fighting is completely useless to you, while Dual Implement would require a prior feat (though, Staff fighting also gives you a +1 Defense with staff), and only Buff your Sorcerer Powers.

  Rapid assault is garbage in my personal view, (Though you all know I've never been a fan of First Round Only Bonus Feats).  ALL White lotus Feats are lovely but, again, Only ARCANE at-wills.  If you're looking to up your average damage, Crit Bonus feats won't help you any either... I was going to suggest you switch from L strike to the thunder burst 1 range attack... But apparently that sorcerer At-Will only existed in my mind -.o

  Ye Olde Staff Of Ruin if you don't already have it.  Remember, it adds the damage to ALL attacks using that thing, so your Monk attacks and Melee basic would benefit.  Unless you have a preferred Staff/Focus.

  If you ever make it to lv 16 (its inevitably Raichel's paragon path was Lightning fury), if you hit ANYONE with a Lightning power, EVERY enemy that moves adjacent to you or makes a melee attack vs you take 2d6+Dex Lightning.  Sine you're a Monk mindset and oh so love to dive into a Melee, that will stack up.

  Do you have Staff Expertise yet?  To-Hit+Handy for your point blank sorcerer use.  Remember that the Reach for melee only works for WEAPON attacks, so would not function for Monk powers.

 Focusing Spellfury: When you hit Two or More targets with a Sorcerer At-will... (there are very few multi target sorc at-wills), +2 Bonud to DMG rolls with ANY ranged or melee attack until end of your next turn.  L strike, arc means always hits at lest two targets unless it's a solo.

  Rising Spell Fury: USELESS, because L Strike Arc means more than one enemy will be hit preventing the bonus, plus it only gives the bonus to Close and Area attacks.

  Tempest Magic:  The feat I keep mentioning.  You need Sorc, Storm Magic, Dex 13, and Con 13.  Arcane powers with Lightning or Thunder Keyword get +1 per tier Feat DMG rolls.. BUT! When bloodied you get +2/+4/+6. Damage bonus, plus makes the enemy pay for targeting you.  However, I do not know if you have 13 Con (I'm guessing No due to likely Dex/Cha/Wis mix).  Irony, Terdisas Can't use this either because he Wis 13.

  A lot of the challenge isn't just trying to find methods of upping your damage.  But ways that work with the fact you are a hybrid. Though there don't seem to be much in the way of Monk Damage booster feats that I noticed offhand.
This message was last edited by the GM at 02:31, Sat 05 Nov 2011.
Elric
GM, 283 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Sat 5 Nov 2011
at 03:05
  • msg #153

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Actually if you want to optimize a Monk/Sorc for damage then you might want to look at these three threads on the Wizards of the Coast Forum:

http://community.wizards.com/g...=506638321#506638321

http://community.wizards.com/g...1:_The_Monk_Handbook

http://community.wizards.com/w...nd:Sorcerer_handbook

Also if you want you can post on the Wizards of the Forum's Character optimization thread and post a challenge, given these constraints "hybrid Monk/Sorceror for a given race, what optimization can be made for it." I've seen people throw out questions like that several times. if you want to to be playable from lvl 1, or just playable form level X is another factor to consider.

The people who regularly post in that thread are far more skilled than either Will or myself at this sort of thing. Also you don't have to be a DDI insider with an active account to post on the WotC forums.
Raichel
player, 145 posts
Lightning Reflexes
50,000 volts worth
Sat 5 Nov 2011
at 03:20
  • msg #154

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Thanks for all the help! And I appologize, I forgot to offer what my build WAS, so you would both have been offering advice blind. Needless to say, though, I took everything staff-related as it's IC for Raichel. :) But it was cool to have my choices reaffirmed. Anyways, I'll post more on the topic another time. Now it's late and I gotta head for bed to wake up at 6:50am. XD
Surya Shemesh
player, 47 posts
Monster InternTM Sheets
We Know How You're Built
Thu 10 Nov 2011
at 05:18
  • msg #155

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Here's the build I'm considering:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Surya, level 2
Shardmind, Invoker
Divine Covenant: Covenant of Wrath
Shardmind: Perception Bonus
Windrise Ports Benefit: Windrise Ports (Perception)
Background: Windrise Ports (Windrise Ports Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 14, Dex 10, Int 13, Wis 20, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 14, Dex 10, Int 11, Wis 18, Cha 8.


AC: 17 Fort: 14 Reflex: 13 Will: 17
HP: 28 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 7

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +7, Arcana +9, Perception +13, Insight +11

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics, Bluff, Diplomacy, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +4, Heal +6, History +2, Intimidate, Nature +6, Stealth, Streetwise, Thievery, Athletics

FEATS
Invoker: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Superior Implement Training (Accurate staff)
Level 2: Solar Enemy

POWERS
Invoker at-will 1: Hand of Radiance
Invoker at-will 1: Sun Strike
Invoker encounter 1: Blades of Astral Fire
Invoker daily 1: Brilliant Beacon
Invoker utility 2: Divine Protection

ITEMS
Ritual Book, Chainmail, Accurate staff
RITUALS
Hand of Fate
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
Dark Sun Narrator
NPC, 54 posts
Click on me to see
the Campaign Notes
Thu 10 Nov 2011
at 05:36
  • msg #156

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Well for one thing Invokers have a 2nd ritual in their ritual books beyond hand of fate.

Also two questions I have:
- is it worth giving up other stats to go from Wis 18 to Wis 20?
- is it better to go for accurate staff over staff expertise which would let you use your ranged and area attacks without drawing AoOs if someone got in your face. At this point both would give the same +1 to hit so you wouldn't be giving up accuracy.
Monster Intern
player, 85 posts
Monster Party!
Monster Prices!
Thu 10 Nov 2011
at 05:39
  • msg #157

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

  Question 3(Asked many a time for many a bare bones export): What are your dang languages.
  Q4: Assumption you'd be keeping your current theme?
This message was last edited by the player at 05:41, Thu 10 Nov 2011.
Surya Shemesh
player, 48 posts
Monster InternTM Sheets
We Know How You're Built
Thu 10 Nov 2011
at 05:47
  • msg #158

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

1) yeah.  i really, really like hitting stuff.  i'm not really planning on using anything but wiz.  only had int before because i was going to take wizard powers.
2) because i'm not counting on finding an accurate staff unless i buy it at the beginning?  guess i'm being paranoid?  because expertise wouldn't add any accuracy since we have that houseruled in anyway?  and i'm not expecting to need the other use since I have a utility power for preventing AoO?
3) same as before?  primordial, deep speech, common?

I'm so indifferent to the ritual that i'd just as soon not pick one.  or run with whatever you guys want me to take.
Monster Intern
player, 86 posts
Monster Party!
Monster Prices!
Thu 10 Nov 2011
at 05:55
  • msg #159

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

re 2) Reminding you again since I told you last night.  DS house rules are different.  No freebie expertise in DS (Seth mods down monster defenses instead).  Though I can understand the IC logic of not being certain you can get a finely crafted magical implement out in the magic fearing 99% of the world.  On the other hand, Artificer in party.

re 3) That... That's one less language than Surya is supposed to have (Shardminds also get a freebie, on top of your BG lv 1 freebie).  Also I'm trying to get you into the habit of actually saying your languages when you throw export dumps at people, because it's one of those clarifications I've got to ask for every single character sheet I've written for you that has any choice in the matter.

  EDIT: Ah, you got Draconic on current sheet.
This message was last edited by the player at 05:58, Thu 10 Nov 2011.
Surya Shemesh
player, 49 posts
Monster InternTM Sheets
We Know How You're Built
Thu 10 Nov 2011
at 07:00
  • msg #160

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

so... could get expertise on top of enemies already being gimped?  as much as i like to hit, that would make me feel guilty, so i'll pass on anything +acc beyond superior implement.

draconic works.  honestly, i'm indifferent to languages with few exceptions.  so long as i can chat with the pcs i'm fine.  feel free to "punish" me whenever in the future i don't list languages by putting in whatever amuses you.  i tend to just pick primordial or elf when i make a char for lazy 'primordial is cool' and 'elf is spanish' reasons.
Dark Sun Narrator
NPC, 55 posts
Click on me to see
the Campaign Notes
Thu 10 Nov 2011
at 14:41
  • msg #161

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

That makes no sense, especially since the 'gimping' is just reestablishing parity turning +acc feats into options but not mandatory feat taxes, and taking a feat like staff expertise or rod expertise is as much about the secondary feature of the feat as anything.

Rod Expertise = A rod functions like a light shield
Staff Expertise = Staff as a melee weapon has reach, as an implement makes it so ranged and area attacks don't cause AoOs.
Mittens
GM, 808 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Thu 10 Nov 2011
at 16:06
  • msg #162

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Dark Sun Narrator:
That makes no sense,


To you.  Makes no sense to you.  You (and Joe) have a very different mindset on how to enjoy the game.  And to me, your mindset makes no sense.  I have my own mindset.  It is why I will not accept any houserule that favors PCs for my characters.

*looks over houserules thread*

Yup.  No exception.  Won't take advantage of any for my characters.  And I need to update that one about double moves and warlocks curse.
Elric
GM, 284 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Thu 10 Nov 2011
at 19:42
  • msg #163

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

the DS houserules are to achieve equality between PC and NPC/mob regarding attack/defenses, and tweaking damage to be reasonable, or swapping out a mob's weapon... why use a 1d6 for 'dagger' attacks when you can toss a shortsword on the medium sized mob that is supposed to do 1d6dmg?... Feats are feats and there are NPCs/mobs that do take advantage of what seem to be feats or have other really broken stuff.

At will ongoing dmg, or at will blind, or at while all sorts of stuff...I have seen heroic solo mobs with an at will vs. will  dominate...no save since it is one turn only but they can keep chaining it... oh by the way, if I recall it is only a MINOR action to pull that stunt.

If you want to boycott certain feats go ahead. You can also resort to using shimmering armor to get the same effect as staff expertise, so there are other ways around it.
I like Staff expertise enough that even in threads where expertise is given out free, I still heavily consider it. Michael will be taking it at lvl 2 for the melee range extension and the range/area no longer causes AoOs. Shale already has it as I fully expect mobs to get in shale's face, and with that feat he can tell them to take a hike, or worse.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 329 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Thu 10 Nov 2011
at 22:10
  • msg #164

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

  Chris has no problems with Staff Expertise, they get it all the time.  (Mittens Wizard is Lv 1 expertise, lv 2 accurate staff for example as well.  Mittens Pyro meanwhile is accurate staff lv 1, staff expertise lv 2.  In RL Mittens Pyromancer is Staff Expertise Lv 1, Accurate Staff lv 2.  Notice a pattern yet?)

  The confusion there is probably caused because one of the reasons Chris gives for why he wont get it now is 'because we have the bonus houseruled in anyways'...  But now he is reminding the world they will never use that house rule bonus ever... So... yeah.  Make no sense reason there at least, even in Chris logic.

  Other Chris logic that doesn't make sense to me.  "Oh, you can 'punish' me by saving me the effort of thinking about language myself entirely, sucker."  But that's more likely from a poor choice of wording on his part.  Punish? Really?

EDIT: Oh, huh.  Surya has switched from a preserving Invoker style to a Wrathful one.  I wonder if this is a sign of some kind?
This message was last edited by the GM at 23:28, Thu 10 Nov 2011.
Timothius
GM, 297 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Fri 11 Nov 2011
at 00:18
  • msg #165

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Concerning the Chris logic, I was confused too until Chris pointed out that before, you get the feat for free. Now you get the feat for free via lowered enemy defenses AND you can get the feat on top of that. It would be like adding "Special: You can take this feat one more time" under the weapon expertise feat description. Or just changing it to a +2 instead of a +1.

The "punish" is in regards to a situation where Chris is faced with some important moment where he needs a certain language to understand what's going on. "Oops. Sorry, Chris, you were too lazy to pick one, so you don't know it. I picked dwarven for you because nobody ever speaks it! Bwahahahaha!" or something.


But none of this is relevant. It doesn't matter. Let Chris play how he wants to play. The point of Chris' post is that no amount of arguing game mechanics will ever convince you of his side or him of your side. To him, you are castrating the enemies to the point of us being Chuck Norris and the enemy being a de-clawed chihuahua. To you, a level 1 mob may as well be an ancient dragon and it's all you can do to survive or hit the enemy's defenses. Neither you nor Chris will ever budge on what you feel of the game and its mechanics.

I say just play the game, hang out, roll dice, and have fun. Don't argue with each other as it A) accomplishes nothing because everyone is set in their ways and B) Just ticks people off because "I'm right and you are wrong. My logic is sound and your logic isn't even logic. Etc etc."
Monster Intern
player, 87 posts
Monster Party!
Monster Prices!
Fri 11 Nov 2011
at 02:17
  • msg #166

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

  New Surya Sheet MOSTLY up.  I still need to figure out the new weight/Money/inventory because the addition of 40 pounds of chainmail throws it all off as we loaded her to the brim with various survival days. I do not blame Chris at all for THAT, as this would happen no matter what.
  However, Literally half the time I've spent already has been dealing with working out the 'not in clipboard export' stuff. Once more I've had to reverse engineer to figure out what their background skill bonus choice was for example.

  Seriously, It's not making the sheets I mind.  It's to everyone's benefit that there are proper character sheets.  It's the 'I don't care.' attitude Chris has regarding anything that isn't printed out for him from a copy paste that's getting old. (My vindictive refusal to ever write a Swordmage sheet for someone else still stands).

  Short version: The only 'problem' I have with Surya is how mysterious and 'I don't understand' to me it is they changed to Wrath class features. No wrath powers picked, and Particularly as Solar enemy cant be used in same encounter as your default channel divinity (only one channel per encounter.  even Tim forgets this).

  One more time.  I'm not saying I have a problem with Chris not wanting to use House Rules freebie hit bonuses himself.  I've got enough sheets I've written for him without that to back this up.  The 'flaw' I was pointing out was Chris saying "I'm not using Staff expertise because we already have the bonus it gives, the bonus that I don't actually use.  While every other staff wielder I have uses Staff expertise in threads where you do get free expertise.".
   The other given reasons of paranoia and wanting to make sure he actually HAS an accurate staff (good worries in DS setting) I'm cool with.  Though Fletch is kind of -.-; that there is no faith the artificer can provide a staff.

    Why the change to Wrath from Preservation anyway?  You still picked Blades of astral fire which has the preservation rider.  Granted, your modifiers outside of WIS are so terrible it would make no difference at this level. (+2 AC, vs 1+1(INT) AC). Though it will lead to some controller effect woes on later powers.

EDIT: Surya sheet and DS narrator edits done.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:57, Fri 11 Nov 2011.
Surya Shemesh
player, 50 posts
Monster InternTM Sheets
We Know How You're Built
Fri 11 Nov 2011
at 06:07
  • msg #167

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Had picked preservation because it was INT based, and I had dipped heavy into INT for future wizard powers.  Why wrath?  Because I like it's default "do more damage with encounters and dailies the more enemies you hit."

Blades of Astral Fire is nice because it's ally friendly and radiant.

;.; that Brilliant Beacon no get bonus from wrath.  But again... ally friendly and radiant.

quote:
"I'm not using Staff expertise because we already have the bonus it gives, the bonus that I don't actually use.  While every other staff wielder I have uses Staff expertise in threads where you do get free expertise.".


Huh?  Having a hard time understanding.  The meaning in my brain keeps waffling between "Joe's saying that he's putting +2 to attack bonuses in my characters with expertise" and "Joe thinks I think that DS has free expertise."

Well I checked Mittens Wizard, and the +10 is legit character builder legal.  No free feat.  So at least I know that if I want to show off my character to friends at DnD con, they won't laugh at it being houseruled.  Not that I'd ever go to a DnD con, but still...

My objection to using a legit, character builder legal feat in DS that raises to-hit is that I'm told the monsters have already been given a penalty to their defenses.  That to me is double-dipping.  We may as well have left off the monster defenses and just doubled up the expertise feat bonuses.  Or have given every char starting stats of 22, 16, 14, 12, 12, 12.

I'm convinced that the MM3 monsters are sissy little punks compared to the overwhelming power that power-creep legitimate PCs wield.  Maaaybe against PHB1 only options, the MM3 monster might pose a threat.  Don't believe me?  Hardest fight I've ever faced in Tim's campaign was when he faced us off against "monsters" which were just PCs of our level.  +3 solo brute?  So easy he barely scratched us.  +4 encounter full of multiple enemies?  Easy peasy.  I think the fighter took all of 12 damage while we dealt out well over 400 damage.  And this with PCs that for the most part rely on inherent bonuses.

I had intended to have SoW prove to Joe and Seth that they needn't cower in abject horror when a monster with at-will ongoing damage and stuns shows up.  That they don't have to pile on a bazillion "fixes" to the game system in order for characters to survive.  In my eyes, it's been "fixed" to the point where the only challenge left is to see if fights can be reduced to 1 round.  Just look at the most recent fights in every thread for this trend.  The PCs steamroll the monsters.

So anyway.  The thing is that for me, the bigger the bullseye on the target, the less fun archery is.  Imagine playing basketball with a hoop that's 3' wide and only 7' off the ground.  Maybe fun for someone else, but less fun for me.  (By the way, Wiki says, "Wheelchair basketball retains most major rules and scoring of basketball, and maintains a 10-foot basketball hoop and standard basketball court." )
Elric
GM, 285 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Fri 11 Nov 2011
at 06:34
  • msg #168

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Surya Shemesh:
I had intended to have SoW prove to Joe and Seth that they needn't cower in abject horror when a monster with at-will ongoing damage and stuns shows up.


You do realize that in Dark Sun there are monsters that have at will DOMINATION...with no saves allowed.

It's not the ongoing damage and stuns that make me quiver it's the monsters that have an at will your slowed, no your immobilized, err no your helpless (like from sleep spell)...all based off a single At Will.

But I DM to tell a story that is enjoyable, not let's see how I can massacre the party. If I wanted that I'd have thrown you all against the Dragon of Tyr when your level 1.

And no I don't plan on castrating those mobs into becoming declawed kitties... I don't think you can declaw a dog...other than bringing their to hit and defenses into alignment and tweaking any damages by either saying no that isn't a dagger that does 1d10 it's a bastard sword or changing the damage dice to be what the weapon really is depending on the situation.
Timothius
GM, 298 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Fri 11 Nov 2011
at 06:50
  • msg #169

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Timothius:
I say just play the game, hang out, roll dice, and have fun. Don't argue with each other as it A) accomplishes nothing because everyone is set in their ways and B) Just ticks people off because "I'm right and you are wrong. My logic is sound and your logic isn't even logic. Etc etc."


I guess nobody payed attention to this.

Seth. You're a great GM and a good player. I've said it before, Chris agrees.
Chris. You're a great GM and a good player. I've said this before as well.
Joe. You're a great player (but admittedly don't GM). You know I've said so before.

Isn't this enough? Let people play their characters how they want and let GMs run their games how they want. None of us are breaking Seth's rules. None of us are breaking Chris' rules. Chris makes no sense to Joe/Seth. Joe/Seth make no sense to Chris. No wall of text is going to change this. Agree to disagree and please leave it be.
Mittens
GM, 809 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Fri 11 Nov 2011
at 06:52
  • msg #170

Re: Rising from the Ashes of past threads.

Elric:
I DM to tell a story that is enjoyable,


Which is why you're an awesome DM.  :)
Mittens
GM, 810 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sat 12 Nov 2011
at 04:31
  • msg #171

Re: AUSA stressing.

I've been stressing out about this game I'm going to run next weekend.  So here's an outline of the game I plan to run:

Part 1: Intro scene.  There's a legend of a ship.  You should go salvage your ship.
- Temporal disturbance while chasing poacher ship headed for execution arena.
- Both ships crash on mideval planet.  Local heroes rescue PCs.
- Wake in hospital.
- Told of Legend of flying building. (space ship landed here long ago)

Part 2: Monsters at the PC ship.  Salvage gear.  Fancy weapons?
Kruthik.  focus on cleave.  and little monsters.  Ship can't fly.  Need 2 components.  Can possibly salvage from enemy ship.

Part 3: Return and find your heroes had been kidnapped.  Given Key to archives that will have location of old ship.
Big monsters.  Why did they attack?  Taint of the dark side.

Part 4: Investigate site of enemy craft.  Find tracks. Find 1 component.
Rancor.  reach 2, grab.  Swallow.  Find out the darksiders were doing experiments on the monsters.

Part 5: Tracks lead to the archives.  Archives have location of old ship.
Fight Shield dudes.

Part 6: Find ship.  Boss fight.  Gain last component.  Discover old ship is from the future?  Tie into temporal disturbance earlier.
Lots of Droids.  crab droids as leutennants.  possibly a single dark jedi opponent.

I want your critiques on the PCs I create.  I've decided against the radiant mafia.  I'm going to play very very loose with the rules.  For example, I'm not even going to list PC skills.  I'll just tell them to roll a d20 when they want to do a skill check, and give a result for their roll that seems appropriate at the time.  Monsters won't have attack modifiers, I'll just pretend to roll a d20 then say "it hits" or "it misses" depending on what seems dramatic at the moment.  Primary goal is to maximize player enjoyment, so I want to give the illusion of risk without there being any real risk of party wipe.

That said, I want their character sheets to "feel" powerful when they look at them.  I want the defender to go "Look at all that HP!  Sheesh!"  I want the striker to go, "I can do THAT much damage?  Wow!"  And so forth.  So first up is the defender.  I used goliath battlerager as the template.  Picked feats and powers that would feel defenderish.  Please let me know what you think.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Goliath Battlerager, level 4
Goliath, Fighter
Fighter: Combat Superiority
Fighter Talents: Battlerager Vigor

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 18, Dex 12, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 16, Dex 12, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8.


AC: 22 Fort: 19 Reflex: 16 Will: 17
HP: 56 Surges: 13 Surge Value: 14

TRAINED SKILLS
Heal +8, Endurance +9, Athletics +11

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +1, Arcana +2, Bluff +1, Diplomacy +1, Dungeoneering +3, History +2, Insight +3, Intimidate +1, Nature +5, Perception +3, Religion +2, Stealth +1, Streetwise +1, Thievery +1

FEATS
Level 1: Encouraging Shield
Level 2: Improved Initiative
Level 4: Toughness

POWERS
Fighter at-will 1: Crushing Surge
Fighter at-will 1: Threatening Rush
Fighter encounter 1: Hack and Hew
Fighter daily 1: Knee Breaker
Fighter utility 2: Shielded Sides
Fighter encounter 3: Bull Charge

ITEMS
Scale Armor, Heavy Shield, Longsword
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

Intentionally took longsword instead of axe and scale instead of chain.  I was only interested in making the build feel tough.  I'll leave all the +damage stuff to the striker.  Especially considering the monsters will have as much HP as drama dictates.
Mittens
GM, 811 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sun 13 Nov 2011
at 06:12
  • msg #172

Re: AUSA stressing.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Longtooth Cleric, level 4
Longtooth Shifter, Cleric

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 10, Dex 12, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 10, Dex 12, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 10.


AC: 19 Fort: 17 Reflex: 14 Will: 19
HP: 37 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 9

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +7, Diplomacy +7, Insight +11, Heal +11

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Arcana +2, Bluff +2, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +3, History +2, Intimidate +2, Nature +6, Perception +6, Stealth +2, Streetwise +2, Thievery +2, Athletics +7

FEATS
Cleric: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Shielding Word
Level 2: Acolyte of Divine Secrets
Level 4: Solar Enemy

POWERS
Acolyte of Divine Secrets: Hand of Radiance
Channel Divinity: Healer's Mercy
Cleric at-will 1: Invigorating Assault
Cleric at-will 1: Lance of Faith
Cleric encounter 1: Cause Fear
Cleric daily 1: Moment of Glory
Cleric utility 2: Shield of Faith
Cleric encounter 3: Command

ITEMS
Ritual Book, Chainmail, Morningstar
RITUALS
Gentle Repose
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

I told myself I wouldn't take Solar Enemy, but it just feels powerful.  At the very least compared to the other feat options I considered.  Letting players think that they made the enemy die faster I think would be fun for them.  Also noticed that I wound up with only 1 STR based power, (granted a very nice one), so I'm thinking of rebuilding completely without any STR stuff going on.  Especially considering this char is very Jedi Mind Trick like.  Might consider passifist cleric feat for all the non damaging cleric powers.

In short, in floundering around indecisively with the leader build.  I want it to be very buff / enfeeble focused, low on damage and low on personal defenses, leaving that stuff to the striker and defender.  Want it to feel very support-like while at the same time feeling very powerful.
Timothius
GM, 299 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Mon 14 Nov 2011
at 01:23
  • msg #173

Re: AUSA stressing.

Gilant:
Gilant still feels that overspecialization breeds in weakness and he refuses to be weak.

Michael:
Michael sighs momentarily when asked about his schooling and magic, “...Yet there are others that appreciate the versatility. Overspecialization breeds in weakness.”


I think I'm seeing a pattern. XD

Not that Emerald would ever argue such a point since Bards are the epitome of versatility. :)
Elric
GM, 286 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Mon 14 Nov 2011
at 02:33
  • msg #174

Re: AUSA stressing.

Timothius:
Gilant:
Gilant still feels that overspecialization breeds in weakness and he refuses to be weak.

Michael:
Michael sighs momentarily when asked about his schooling and magic, “...Yet there are others that appreciate the versatility. Overspecialization breeds in weakness.”


I think I'm seeing a pattern. XD

Not that Emerald would ever argue such a point since Bards are the epitome of versatility. :)


Similar vie3ws but for different reasons, Michael is referring to to the concept academically and logistically, while Gilant is more focused on the tactical aspect. But yes I think Emerald would not argue against the point, or any other bard. Only a 'one trick pony' would probably try to argue otherwise, but any one trick pony has an inherit weakness if they can't use their trick.

Thus Michael thinks that as long as the team isn't overspecialized it will be fine, but Gilant thinks that EVERYONE within the team must not overspecialize. A subtle yet distinct difference.
This message was last edited by the GM at 02:54, Mon 14 Nov 2011.
Mittens
GM, 812 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 14 Nov 2011
at 04:25
  • msg #175

Re: AUSA stressing.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
half orc ranger, level 4
Half-Orc, Ranger
Build: Marauder Ranger
Fighting Style: Two-Blade Fighting Style
Ranger: Running Attack

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 10, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 10, Dex 12, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 10.


AC: 18 Fort: 18 Reflex: 16 Will: 16
HP: 42 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 10

TRAINED SKILLS
Nature +10, Athletics +10, Acrobatics +8, Stealth +8, Perception +10

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +2, Bluff +2, Diplomacy +2, Dungeoneering +5, Endurance +3, Heal +5, History +2, Insight +5, Intimidate +4, Religion +2, Streetwise +2, Thievery +3

FEATS
Level 1: Lethal Hunter
Level 2: Weapon Proficiency (Craghammer)
Level 4: Weapon Focus (Hammer)

POWERS
Ranger at-will 1: Twin Strike
Ranger at-will 1: Marauder's Rush
Ranger encounter 1: Off-Hand Strike
Ranger daily 1: Jaws of the Wolf
Ranger utility 2: Bending Branch
Ranger encounter 3: Ruffling Sting

ITEMS
Hide Armor, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Craghammer (2)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

Daily: 2d10+8, 2d10+8, Minor: 1d10+8, Minor: 1d10+8, Action point 1d10+4, 1d10+4, quarry 1d8

Wow.  That's, what... 8d10+40+1d8 or 66 damage in 1 turn (assuming average dice rolls)  Potential for triple digit damage with good damage rolls.  In 1 turn.  At level 4.
Surya Shemesh
player, 51 posts
Monster InternTM Sheets
We Know How You're Built
Tue 15 Nov 2011
at 05:38
  • msg #176

Re: AUSA stressing.

Hmm...  526 GP (As Residuum) I'll spend on Armor of resistance 520 gp value, resist fire.  (closest i can get to resist radiant at this lvl)

Surya  : 144gp 3sp 4cp

I think I'll go for three 40 gp potions of resist for in case i get some annoying ongoing damage.  So poison, necrotic, and acid.

As we all know, the most deadly thing to PCs at this level is failing save throws vs ongoing damage.  Over.  and Over.  and Over.

As for posting, I'll post after tim posts his chars.  No idea what he wants to buy for his chars.
Fletch
player, 46 posts
Even The Cloister,
Sees Us As Mere Weapons
Tue 15 Nov 2011
at 05:40
  • msg #177

Re: AUSA stressing.

Surya Shemesh:
As for posting, I'll post after tim posts his chars.

  So, that would be now then? ;P
Timothius
GM, 300 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Tue 15 Nov 2011
at 06:43
  • msg #178

Re: AUSA stressing.

Freedom:
[OOC: Probably should think of a name for the Cavalier who found and named Freedom, but I never really expected it to come up so I hadn't ever given it much thought. If someone wants to take a stab at it in case the guy ends up being an NPC later I wouldn't have an issue with it so long as it isn't a silly/joke name. As the only things about the guy that are set in stone are the individual's gender (male) and class (Cavalier).]


A male Cavalier. How about "Adrik", a dwarf Cavalier. Just flipped to the dwarf names, saw that name, and thought it sounded nice for a Cavalier.
Freedom
player, 59 posts
Warforged
Level 4 Cavalier
Tue 15 Nov 2011
at 06:54
  • msg #179

Re: AUSA stressing.

Hmm a dwarven Cavalier would also explain why Freedom will be MCing into a Runepriest... Dwarves do have a fondness for runes, although now I am wondering if Freedom's bonus background language should be Dwarven instead of Primordial. Adrik sounds appropriate. We'll see if it comes up, or if Adrik ever needs to be NPCed.
Surya Shemesh
player, 53 posts
Monster InternTM Sheets
We Know How You're Built
Wed 23 Nov 2011
at 04:01
  • msg #180

Re: AUSA stressing.

Choosing Tensur's Floating Disc for Surya's ritual instead of Comprehend Language.
Mittens
GM, 813 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Wed 23 Nov 2011
at 07:14
  • msg #181

Re: AUSA stressing.

Thunderspire Labyrinth First Printing: July 2008

DMG DC check erratta....?

When did the DC check eratta come out?  I'm curious if I ever run into a module printed after it if they adjusted the DC checks in the modules published after the eratta.  Also, there's no equivalent for a DC 10.  20 moderate becomes 10.  15 becomes 5.  So 10 becomes 0?
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 330 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Wed 23 Nov 2011
at 07:24
  • msg #182

Re: AUSA stressing.

  They never bother making errata for modules or the encounters and such in the back of books (such as, that BS acid pit trap is still unchanged).  Also, module writers ignore the charts and rules anyways and just put whatever they want.  (it's take 10 forever no matter what athletics DC to climb a rope for example, in the Athletics skills.  Climbing a brick wall with your bare hands is locked into 20,).

  Not to mention both in the original DMG list, and the errata list, 10, 15, 20, etc do not match the lv 4-6 DC numbers.  Module writers, again, just list whatever they want.
Icarus
player, 10 posts
Monster InternTM Sheets
We Know How You're Built
Tue 29 Nov 2011
at 15:56
  • msg #183

Re: AUSA stressing.

Updated map with init order and missing PC entries.  Then noticed my halfling archer has more HP than a fighter???

May HP: 36
Fighter HP is 15+CON(15)+6 per level.  36 is Correct.

Opened up Char Builder and checked Icarus.  There it was, Level 2, 37 HP???!

Ranger HP is 12+CON(11)+5 per level.  Should be 28.  No toughness feat I could find.  Oh right.  Auspicious Birth background.   -.o

Icarus HP is 12+DEX(20)+5 per level.  37.  *Heavy Sigh*

Move along.  Nothing to see here.
Joey
player, 22 posts
Changeling that
looks like a Dragonborn
Tue 29 Nov 2011
at 19:22
  • msg #184

Re: AUSA stressing.

Image links weren't working when I put them in Joey's sheet.  Through Tim's determination, he finally figured out what was broken.  Apparently, RPOL hates this line: ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======

Having that in a sheet kills any kind of < img src="link" > code.  In the off chance you ever have a post or sheet with two "equals" signs in it and your code no worky, you've been informed why.

Also, posted up his charsheet with powers and such via images.  I like it a lot and plan to use this method for any char that it works for.
Matt
player, 303 posts
I am two things.
A Fighter, and a Fighter
Thu 1 Dec 2011
at 20:42
  • msg #185

Re: AUSA stressing.

Mechanics Details:
Dunno how I missed moving Adam, but he's been placed.  Had to go to the only spot he could charge to.  If instead of double move Matt would rather ready a charge for when Maverick shifts to the left, leaving a square for him to charge to, Matt can do so.


  Yeah, the Cliff is 20 feet high (4 tiles), and Matt was... uh...  *eyes static image map trying to remember where he started*... Would have to move three down if he wanted to reach that little corner at the bottom of the ledge.   He need to double move, so can't ready a charge... Wait, How the hell did ADAM charge? There's no room on the cliff to charge with unless somehow we can use climb movement as the charge movement -.o
This message was last edited by the player at 20:47, Thu 01 Dec 2011.
Adam
player, 217 posts
The noblest leader
is the first to bow.
Fri 2 Dec 2011
at 03:26
  • msg #186

Re: AUSA stressing.

Now that you mention it...  Looks at map.  Ah yes.  Game mechanics shenanigans is how.  Because characters cannot move diagonally through solid objects, in order to get to the top of the ledge, the character must first get to the square beyond the ledge, effectively hovering midair over a cliff cartoon-character-like.  Like so:

```O
``/_\
__/ \
  |
  |
  |

Same for climbing down.  Yes you can charge vertically, there's no rule against it.  But in this case, Adam and Matt would be charging from that magical "hovering midair" square, which too is legal.  Unless I'm wrong.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:27, Fri 02 Dec 2011.
Elric
GM, 287 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Mon 5 Dec 2011
at 03:37
  • msg #187

Dark Sun Campaign on Temporary Hold.

Unfortunately since I have to use my mothers laptop while I am visiting her, since my laptop is currently being repaired by Best Buy, and my mother's laptop gives an 'Access Denied' error when I try to connect any of my USB 2.0 external drives or Flash Drives (And the only way I can fix that error is to reformat drive and do clean reinstall of Windows 7 which my mother won't let me do yet since it is only affecting MY USB2 stuff and not hers and she doesn't want to loose data.)

Thus I won't be able to use any of my notes for the Dark Sun Campaign till I get back home and regain the access my notes.
Thus the Dark Sun campaign will be paused until December 12th as I can't run the campaign when I can't access the files I need... and I'm rather angry about this as it also means I can't work on my dissertation paper as I can't access those files either.
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:38, Mon 05 Dec 2011.
Mittens
GM, 814 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 5 Dec 2011
at 03:56
  • msg #188

Re: Dark Sun Campaign on Temporary Hold.

Sorry about your computer woes.  ;.;  Hope things go as well as they can for you.
Elric
GM, 288 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Mon 5 Dec 2011
at 04:04
  • msg #189

Re: Dark Sun Campaign on Temporary Hold.

Got lucky, found a site online that showed a work-a-round to temporarily resolve the issue. (The issue will still occur if I try to plug in a new USB 2.0 device and don't use the work-a-round for it first.)

By booting up into safe mode and manually forcing it to update the drivers I could get it to load the drivers for the 2 USB 2 external hard drives and my Flash Drive I can now access my files, which also means I'll not have to pause the Dark sun campaign and I'll be able to spend time during the week working on the dissertation paper.
Mittens
GM, 815 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 12 Dec 2011
at 01:34
  • msg #190

Re: Wish Spell

About a year ago, DM friend gave us all a single usage of the legendary wish spell as an Xmas gift.  Tim and I just now fiiinally got around to actually using ours in his game because it was about to expire.  (Good for a year and a day, he said.)  So I looked up the 3.5 wording to find out where it got such a notorious reputation...

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm

Can be used for any one of several very specific spell effects without any hitches, AND...
quote:
You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)


Among the suggested side-effects listed in the book are: If you wish for a powerful unique item, you might get teleported right next to the item's current owner without any backup from the rest of your team to survive said owner's ire.  If you wish for immortality you might get teleported to the demiplane of timelessness where you'll never age... and never leave.

>.>

Well I wished for 4e wizard cantrips, careful to include "without any GM shenanigans" in the wording and of course he objected.  I elaborated, "Well for example stupid stuff like 'Well you get your wish granted, but you only have the cantrips for one day.' or 'Every time you use the cantrips you get uncontrollable hiccups for an hour.'"  He said something like, "Those are exactly the kinds of things I would have suggested to balance it out."

Well surprisingly I got my wish granted without any obvious hitches and without too much arguing.  Tim got his granted in spite of how game changing it was: to have have his char's father revived from the dead, because that effect is on the safe list.  Another player got the intelligent magic item he wanted, but it has a big ego, which the player loves and had lots of fun with.

But it still makes me >.> that a game would have a 'bait the player into losing his character forever' spell built in, encouraging DMs to antagonize players.  Now I know how it earned it's reputation, but honestly...  Why?  It can't be argued the game designers didn't know DMs wouldn't be sadistic with the catch because of the catches they list are plenty bad on their face.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 331 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Mon 12 Dec 2011
at 01:52
  • msg #191

Re: Wish Spell

  Really? It's freaking CANTRIPS.  4th edition Cantrips no less, that can't be used to pull as much BS. They sell cheap magic items in 4th ed that straight up give anyone most of them besides that.

  "hmm, you COULD get Mage hand and Prestidigitation for the cost of a level 4 Item.  But for the allmighty power of a WISH spell, we'll throw in Light and Ghost sound!... If you take an annoying side effect."

  Of course, considering the little I've listend to that GM's podcasts, I'd expect 'I wish for blindsight' to result in 'you get blindsight 10.  You are also blind'.  Or Darkvision resulting in 'You can only see in the dark'.
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:55, Mon 12 Dec 2011.
Peter Tarken
player, 16 posts
One!Two! Two Heal Surges!
Ah! Ah! Ah!
Tue 13 Dec 2011
at 23:46
  • msg #192

Re: Wish Spell

  Well, I had started working on a combat post for Quartilia... Then I noticed, the enemy defenses still are not listed anywhere for me to see in threads or the map, unless it's buried deep in the OOC thread. (was aiming for a Minion, Does 15 vs will/14 vs Fort,Dex/16 VS AC hit?)

  I put Peter on the Map though.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:47, Tue 13 Dec 2011.
Mittens
GM, 816 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Wed 14 Dec 2011
at 00:34
  • msg #193

Re: Wish Spell

8 Kobold Minions (M) Level 1 Minion
Small natural humanoid (reptile) XP 25 each
Initiative +3 Senses Perception +1; darkvision
HP 1; a missed attack never damages a minion.
AC 15; Fortitude 11, Refl ex 13, Will 11; see also trap sense
Speed 6
mJavelin (standard; at-will) ✦ Weapon
+5 vs. AC; 4 damage.
rJavelin (standard; at-will) ✦ Weapon
Ranged 10/20; +5 vs. AC; 4 damage.
Shifty (minor; at-will)
The kobold shifts 1 square.
Trap Sense
A kobold gains a +2 bonus to all defenses against traps.
Alignment Evil Languages Common, Draconic
Skills Stealth +4, Thievery +4
Str 8 (–1) Dex 16 (+3) Wis 12 (+1)
Con 12 (+1) Int 9 (–1) Cha 10 (+0)
Equipment hide armor, light shield, 3 javelins

3 Kobold Slingers (S) Level 1 Artillery
Small natural humanoid (reptile) XP 100 each
Initiative +3 Senses Perception +1; darkvision
HP 24; Bloodied 12
AC 13; Fortitude 12, Refl ex 14, Will 12; see also trap sense
Speed 6
m Dagger (standard; at-will) ✦ Weapon
+5 vs. AC; 1d4 + 3 damage.
r Sling (standard; at-will) ✦ Weapon
Ranged 10/20; +6 vs. AC; 1d6 + 3 damage; see also special shot.
Special Shot
The kobold slinger can fi re special ammunition from its sling.
It typically carries 3 rounds of special shot, chosen from the
types listed below. A special shot attack that hits deals normal
damage and has an additional eff ect depending on its type:
Stinkpot: The target takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls
(save ends).
Firepot (Fire): The target takes ongoing 2 fi re damage
(save ends).
Gluepot: The target is immobilized (save ends).
Shifty (minor; at-will)
The kobold shifts 1 square.
Trap Sense
A kobold gains a +2 bonus to all defenses against traps.
Alignment Evil Languages Common, Draconic
Skills Acrobatics +8, Stealth +10, Thievery +10
Str 9 (–1) Dex 17 (+3) Wis 12 (+1)
Con 12 (+1) Int 9 (–1) Cha 10 (+0)
Equipment leather armor, dagger, sling with 20 bullets and 3
rounds of special shot (see above)
Joey
player, 26 posts
Changeling that
looks like a Dragonborn
Thu 15 Dec 2011
at 16:13
  • msg #194

Re: Delaying and post order.

quote:
Initiative:  Initiative is rolled when a character becomes aware of a clear and present danger.  Once initiative is rolled, players do not have to pose in order relative to each other's initiative, only relative to the enemy's initiative.  For example:  Gale rolls a initiative score of 12, the 3 goblins a score of 14, Timothius 15, and Kitau 17.  In this case, if on Monday Timothius is online and Kitau hasn't posted, he can post his turn before Kitau even though Kitau got the higher initiative score.  However, Gale cannot post her turn because the goblins got a higher score than Gale and have yet to act.  The GM will post the goblin's turn before Kitau if she doesn't post within a capriciously decided upon reasonable amount of time, and Kitau's initiative score drops to 13.  If Kitau still hasn't posted by the end of the round, the GM will strike her down with great vengeance and furious ang...  ahem... the GM will find a way to temporarily remove her from combat until such time as RL allows her to return to RPOL.

PHB 288:
Delay
You can choose to wait to take your turn until later
in the round. You can wait until after your allies take
actions so you can plan out tactics, or you can wait for
enemies to move into range.
DELAY: NO ACTION
✦ Delay Entire Turn: You must delay your entire turn,
so you can’t delay if you’ve already taken an action
on your turn. You also can’t delay if you’re dazed or if
you’re unable to take actions.
✦ Coming Back into the Initiative Order: After any
other combatant has completed a turn, you can step
back into the initiative order. Perform your actions as
desired and adjust your initiative to your new position
in the order.
✦ Losing a Delayed Turn: If you don’t take your
delayed turn before your initiative comes up, you
lose the delayed turn and your initiative remains
where it was.
✦ Start of Your Turn: At the moment you delay, carry
out the start of your turn normally.
✦ End of Your Turn: You don’t have a normal end of
your turn (page 269). Instead, the things you do at
the end of your turn happen at two separate times.
End Beneficial Effects when You Delay: At the
moment you delay, end effects that last until the
end of your turn and that are beneficial to you or
your allies. For example, if on your previous turn you
stunned an enemy until the end of your next turn,
the stunned condition ends. You can’t prolong a beneficial
effect by delaying.
End Sustained Effects when You Delay: You can’t
sustain a power if you delay. At the moment you
delay your action, the “check actions spent” part of
the end of your turn occurs. Because you haven’t
spent an action to sustain any active powers, sustainable
effects end.
End Harmful Effects after You Act: After you
return to the initiative order and take your actions,
end effects that last until the end of your turn and
that are harmful to you. For example, if an enemy
stunned you until the end of your next turn, the
stunned condition ends. You can’t avoid a harmful
effect by delaying.
Make Saving Throws after You Act: After you return
to the initiative order and take your actions, you
make saving throws against effects on you.


Scinario: Huge pile of minions, boss, paladin, pyromancer.
Pyromancer init: 17
Boss init: 13
Minions init: 10
Paladin init: 1

Pyromancer: "I summon my burning sphere next to the boss!"  *rolls*  "Hits!  12 damage!  No move needed.  Minor to sustain."
GM: "Boss's turn.  Roll auto damage."
Pyromancer: "2 plus 4... 6 damage!"
GM: "Boss winces from the added pain as all the minions who were standing near the burning sphere are incinerated!  'ATTACK!' the boss says, 'KILL THE MAGE FIRST!'"  *several rolls*  "The three minions who could get at you all hit.  Pyromancer takes 12 damage.  The other could only reach the paladin and hits.  4 damage to the paladin.  Boss steps away from the flaming sphere.  Since the minions are in the way of his stunning mace melee attack, he fires a bolt of energy at the pyromancer but misses."
Paladin: "But wouldn't the boss go first?"
GM: "He delayed."
Paladin: "But commanding them to attack is a free action which means he can't delay."
GM: "He also rolled a 20.  Do you want me to change the round so that you're stunned and near dead?"
Pyromancer: "OK.  Paladin's turn!  Hey paladin!  Delay till after my burning hands so you can charge the boss!"
Paladin: "I'll lose a turn."
Pyromancer: "No you won't."
Paladin: "It's the bottom of the round.  If I delay, I lose a turn."
Pyromancer: "No you won't!  Look at the rules!  Nothing on page 288 says anything about 'you lose your turn if you delay past the end of a round.'  Only if you delay past the monsters would you have lost a turn."
GM: "You can delay past the pyromancer's attack."
Paladin: "Fine."


We've been playing this way since day 1.  So where does this notion that Joey loses a turn for delaying till after Michael come from?
This message was last edited by the player at 16:18, Thu 15 Dec 2011.
Elric
GM, 289 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Thu 15 Dec 2011
at 18:09
  • msg #195

Re: Delaying and post order.

Simple Math what the situation was when Joe and I were talking:
Current # of times Michael and Durtendin had attacked = 2
Current # of times the Kobolds had attacked = 2
Current # of times Joey, Peter, and Emerald have attacked = 1 (their turns for the round haven't come up yet.)

If Joey waits till AFTER Michael and Durtendin attack again, then those two would have attacked 3 times yet Joey would only just then get his second attack. Joey would then not be able to get his 3rd attack until after Michael and Durtendin complete their 4th.

If always being a round behind isn't a loss of a turn, what is?

Also I fixed an error I discovered on the Quartilia map, somehow the stairs occupying H9, H10, I9, & I10 disappeared, possibly due to multiple people typing stuff on the map at once so it updated strangely, so I clarified their position. This also makes more sense as to how and why the slingers were targeting those two squares as they were the top of the stairs.
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:03, Thu 15 Dec 2011.
Timothius
GM, 302 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Thu 15 Dec 2011
at 21:02
  • msg #196

Re: Delaying and post order.

Elric:
If always being a round behind isn't a loss of a turn, what is?


Depends on your definition of a lost round. Whether Joey takes his turn before or after your alts, to the *enemy* he still takes his turn that round. Which means that as far as "us vs them" is concerned, a delayed turn is only a loss of turn if you delay to be after the enemy. Or if we look at the initiative order this way (since Michael DOES take his turn after Emerald):

Peter
Joey
Emmy
Michael
Durtendin
Enemies

Number of turns each PC took before enemies: 1.
Number of turns enemy takes after the PCs: 1.

Now look at this:

Peter
Emmy
Michael
Durtendin
Joey
Enemies

Number of turns each PC took before enemies: 1.
Number of turns enemy takes after the PCs: 1.

Also simple math.

Now if Joey wanted to delay till after the enemies, then he would have lost his chance to harm them for a whole turn. Otherwise, no loss of turn.
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:04, Thu 15 Dec 2011.
Joey
player, 27 posts
Changeling that
looks like a Dragonborn
Thu 15 Dec 2011
at 21:29
  • msg #197

Re: Delaying and post order.

What Tim said.  In both examples, the hypothetical and in Joey's case, if the defender REMAINED in the "After wizard" initiative spot, then the defender would remain "behind" the wizard in a hypothetical "race to get in the most attacks before the enemy drops."  But what matters is number of attacks compared to enemies, which is unchanged when PCs swap initiative.  In later rounds the defender can choose to go before the wizard, meaning he'd be back in the same spot in initiative where he started.
Elric
GM, 290 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Fri 16 Dec 2011
at 16:52
  • msg #198

Re: Delaying and post order.

Going to wait for Peter to post in Quartilla, but I have already Rolled up Durtendin and Michael's actions.
Durtendin (With his passive perception both he and Thorn will easy spot the rope ladder.)
Minor: Dismiss Nature's Growth
Move Both he and Thorn will move up. Durtendin will move to G5, Thorn will move to I6 so he is 2 squares from S2 setting up for a charge.
Standard Action: Thorn Charges ( only covers 2 squares but has to spend 4 move due to the extra movement taken up by climbing and passes climb check) bites S2 (successfully for 4 dmg, leaving S2 with 7hp already checked, and S2 succeeds on his climb check to avoid falling due to taking damage), and then Thorn teleports 2 squares (which will put him on the ladder below S2. (Thus blocking off the path unless S2 can reduce Thorn to 0hp.) Blink Dogs are fun!
Michael's turn:
Move action: Move up so that he'll be adjacent to Joe and Durtendin (G6)
Standard Action: Hypnotism (hits, complete with a 'draconic' "Get back up here!" Thus S2 will be slide back up the ladder to either I5 or I6 depending on if sliding up the ladder requires 2 squares of movement or 1. In either case S2 would end up adjacent to Joey.

Thus when it is S2's turn again he'll be stuck adjacent to Joey, with a Blink Dog waiting for him on the ladder if the tries to flee again. Oh and down to 7hp.

Main reason I'm waiting and not posting this ICly yet is that I duno what Peter is going to do, and he could pull off a Move/Charge and reach S2 which would make it impossible for Thorn to charge S2 if Peter's attack doesn't finish S2 off as he'd need to do 11dmg. (In that case Durtendin's standard action would become Grasping tide, which would hit S2 for 1d6+4 dmg and would already have the secondary roll checked so if it is triggered it would hit and S2 would be prone. Michael wouldn't be able to slide S2 up the ladder though, but he could try to pull S2 off the ladder to take some fall damage which would not be as favorable... mostly because 1d10 dmg isn't likely to finish off S2, but if he makes the save, I don't know how prone+climbing works... Would he instant fall anyways as I duno how he could be both climbing and prone at the same time.
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:56, Fri 16 Dec 2011.
Joey
player, 29 posts
Changeling that
looks like a Dragonborn
Fri 16 Dec 2011
at 20:42
  • msg #199

Re: Forced movement

Elric:
depending on if sliding up the ladder requires 2 squares of movement or 1.


I was sure you'd be fine, but looked it up and found:

phb 285:
PULL, PUSH, AND SLIDE
✦ Pull: When you pull a creature, each square you
move it must bring it nearer to you.
✦ Push: When you push a creature, each square you
move it must place it farther away from you.
✦ Slide: When you slide a creature, there’s no restriction
on the direction you can move it.

Whether you’re pulling, pushing, or sliding a target,
certain rules govern all forced movement.

FORCED MOVEMENT
✦ Line of Effect: You must have line of effect to any
square you pull, push, or slide a creature into.
✦ Distance in Squares: The power you’re using specifies
how many squares you can move a target. You
can choose to move the target fewer squares or not
to move it at all. You can’t move the target vertically.
✦ Specific Destination: Some powers don’t specify a
distance in squares but instead specify a destination,
such as “adjacent” (a square adjacent to you).
✦ No Opportunity Attacks: Forced movement does
not provoke opportunity attacks or other opportunity
actions.
✦ Ignore Difficult Terrain: Forced movement isn’t
hindered by difficult terrain.
✦ Not a Move: Forced movement doesn’t count
against a target’s ability to move on its turn. A target’s
speed is irrelevant to the distance you move it.
Clear Path: Forced movement can’t move a target
into a space it couldn’t enter by walking.
The target
can’t be forced into an obstacle or made to squeeze
into a space.


I think the one exception to the "can't move an enemy vertically" rule is when you teleport an enemy, and even that is in a "DM call" area where folks recommend allowing the target a save throw to prevent vertical movement, or any other teleportation that would cause a fall.  Teleported over a pit, for example.  Pushed, pulled, slid, or teleported into lava is apparently fine and doesn't require a save throw.  Go fig. DMG says this gets a save throw.

EDIT: But Tim handwaved all this in favor of "RULE OF FUN"  Tim: "I can't deny how much fun this trick is, so I'll allow it.  Besides, it's not like Seth is trying to break the game or anything."
This message was last edited by the player at 21:12, Fri 16 Dec 2011.
Timothius
GM, 303 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Wed 21 Dec 2011
at 06:05
  • msg #200

Re: Forced movement

Freedom:

Incorrect, a large mount that squeezes only occupies 1 square...period. Yes while the mount is sqeezing the rider is considered squeezing too, but still only 1 square while squeezing, duno where you got the 2 squares from.


Common sense is where I got it from. Which I need to stop applying to D&D rules as they are there for balance, not common sense. Also, didn't know the rules made you shrink 1. Simply thought it let you reduce your squares by half (so if 1 square, you can now occupy .5 squares. If 4 squares, you occupy 2. So on. Now I know the actual rules are that everyone can magically shrink a size category smaller when they want.)

In real life, when you squeeze through a space, you don't suddenly shrink into a smaller creature. And if squeezing through a narrow hall, you flatten out. But you don't flatten both front/back AND your sides. So that is where I got the 2 squares from. I was imagining a horse in that hallway and my brain did not imagine the horse suddenly imploding into the size of a man like the rules say to do.
Elric
GM, 291 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Wed 21 Dec 2011
at 16:26
  • msg #201

Re: Forced movement

Timothius:
Freedom:

Incorrect, a large mount that squeezes only occupies 1 square...period. Yes while the mount is sqeezing the rider is considered squeezing too, but still only 1 square while squeezing, duno where you got the 2 squares from.


Common sense is where I got it from. Which I need to stop applying to D&D rules as they are there for balance, not common sense. Also, didn't know the rules made you shrink 1. Simply thought it let you reduce your squares by half (so if 1 square, you can now occupy .5 squares. If 4 squares, you occupy 2. So on. Now I know the actual rules are that everyone can magically shrink a size category smaller when they want.)

In real life, when you squeeze through a space, you don't suddenly shrink into a smaller creature. And if squeezing through a narrow hall, you flatten out. But you don't flatten both front/back AND your sides. So that is where I got the 2 squares from. I was imagining a horse in that hallway and my brain did not imagine the horse suddenly imploding into the size of a man like the rules say to do.


It's not so much shrinking, as it is squeezing with no room to really sidestep or move around much outside of moving to another square, and example of squeezing would be fitting a lot of people into a small car at a circus. Hence the debilitating -5 to attacks and granting CA while squeezing. I will admit I have an easier time imagining a tiger squeezing than a horse... as cats are far more flexible.
Timothius
GM, 304 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sun 25 Dec 2011
at 05:12
  • msg #202

Re: Forced movement

Merry Christmas everyone! :)
Mittens
GM, 819 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sun 1 Jan 2012
at 05:50
  • msg #203

Re: Forced movement

Happy New Year!  ^.^
Elric
GM, 292 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Sun 1 Jan 2012
at 06:09
  • msg #204

Re: Forced movement

Happy new year.
Timothius
GM, 305 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sun 1 Jan 2012
at 23:58
  • msg #205

Re: Forced movement

Happy New Year!
Elric
GM, 293 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Mon 2 Jan 2012
at 07:02
  • msg #206

Re: Forced movement

I'm holding off on posting in Quartilia to let people fix posts as there are two things that need to be addressed prior to progressing to next encounter:
1) Dealing with Kobold prisoners... since I doubt people are going to kill them, someone has to at least tie them up or something, otherwise they will ambush us from behind or run away to cause trouble later, neither of which is a good thing.
2) Recovering encounter powers and healing up as I think a few people took hits and might be down some hit points.

While some might think the second is a minor issue, but Durtendin has used two encounter powers, and I am not sure if anyone else has off the top of my head, but we do have 3 people who are injured by 4hp.
Peter Tarken
player, 22 posts
One!Two! Two Heal Surges!
Ah! Ah! Ah!
Mon 2 Jan 2012
at 07:08
  • msg #207

Re: Forced movement

  Ah, right.  Well, the Paladin started it.  Jumping into holes like that, it would be irresponsible of Peter to leave them alone <.<  >.>

  Though, peter does fall under the category of 'would want to skip rest'.  Since he both hasn't used any Enc powers (after all, need to HIT with a melee at-will to trigger mine) and has some Temp HP.
Joey
player, 32 posts
Changeling that
looks like a Dragonborn
Mon 2 Jan 2012
at 14:28
  • msg #208

Re: Forced movement

msg #94:
He makes sure the one who surrendered is marked as such and makes sure all who survived are bound and stripped of sharps.  He then wakes one and questions it.


Edited in OOC bit in msg #94 to mention it included 5 minute rest.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:35, Mon 02 Jan 2012.
Timothius
GM, 306 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Mon 2 Jan 2012
at 14:31
  • msg #209

Re: Forced movement

Elric:
I'm holding off on posting in Quartilia to let people fix posts as there are two things that need to be addressed prior to progressing to next encounter:
1) Dealing with Kobold prisoners... since I doubt people are going to kill them, someone has to at least tie them up or something, otherwise they will ambush us from behind or run away to cause trouble later, neither of which is a good thing.
2) Recovering encounter powers and healing up as I think a few people took hits and might be down some hit points.

While some might think the second is a minor issue, but Durtendin has used two encounter powers, and I am not sure if anyone else has off the top of my head, but we do have 3 people who are injured by 4hp.


Why put off posting what you want done? You could have your characters ask to be waited for. You could have your characters tie the only other kobold there is to tie (since the one we interrogated was tied up).

Still, Joey says he'll just edit in "this includes my 5 minute rest", which I figured everyone knew happened. Tying someone up would take 5 minutes easily, let alone waking them from a beat-down and then interrogating them. Which, for that matter, we could easily say the only other kobold who surrendered would have been tied up in that time.

Can see the confusion, but yeah. No need to hold off. All is accounted for. And there is also retro-active posting:

Durtendin noticed Joey tying up the kobold. During that time, Durtendin went to tie up the other kobold (This counts as 5 minute rest). After the interrogation, Durtendin follows Joey.

Just as a for instance.
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:52, Mon 02 Jan 2012.
Dido
player, 213 posts
With a hammer I serve
The Heavy Metal Dragon
Wed 4 Jan 2012
at 14:37
  • msg #210

Re: Forced movement

Monster Intern:
Also, we had to dig up and look up what the heck divine sanction actually does and how it works since not on Dido Sheet at all, just 'these powers cause divine sanction'.  Turns out, as says on Dido sheet, Valorous Smite causes Divine Sanctions all over the place.  So Dido did better than plain marks he listed.


Honestly never was able to find out what divine sanction does since the book that introduced it (Divine Power) wasn't specific. Which is why it's not on my sheet as to what it does. Soooo... where does it say what, besides marking, divine sanction does? Cause I still don't know after all these years.
Mittens
GM, 820 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Wed 4 Jan 2012
at 16:16
  • msg #211

Re: Forced movement

DP82:
Being subject to it means the target is marked by you for a
duration specified in the description of the power or feat.
Unless otherwise noted, the mark ends before the specified duration if someone else marks the target.
Until the mark ends, the target takes radiant damage
equal to 3+your Charisma modifier the first time each
round it makes an attack that doesn't include you as
a target.  The damage increases to 6+your Charisma
modifier at 11th level and 9+your Charisma modifier
at 21st level.

Mittens
GM, 821 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Wed 4 Jan 2012
at 17:09
  • msg #212

Re: Forced movement

Monster Intern:
  "...I rolled a 17, so imba."  Hey, he's about to bite it, who cares about the fourth wall?  Not him that's who.


*Raises hand*  I care.  Please edit this.  Thanks.
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:40, Wed 04 Jan 2012.
Mittens
GM, 822 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Thu 5 Jan 2012
at 04:09
  • msg #213

Re: Forced movement

Figured Joe would get a kick out of this:

"The line between hero and villain is so faint, it might
as well not be there at all. Disagre? Consider this: A
group breaks into a residence, kills everyone inside, and
then makes off with anything of value. Robbers sacking a
roadside cottage are named villains for such a deed, yet
adventurers who storm a Goblin warren and do the same
are dubbed heroes. The difference? You tell me because I
cannot see it."
-Lord Robilar
Carla
player, 161 posts
Reborn Angelic being
Talks less than Maverick
Sat 7 Jan 2012
at 16:15
  • msg #214

Re: Forced movement

Fixed HP numbers.

Ghosts. Not only are they not vulnerable radiant, they get insubstantial. XD There should be at least the consolation that when ghosts are hit with radiant, they lose insubstantial for that attack. But oh well.

And bit of irony; yes, ghost would have hit Carla's currently 21 reflex (and would even hit her 23 AC), but she would have ironically taken the damage better as she has resist 7 necrotic. XD Ah well, I'm sure Matt's feeling better that Carla wasn't hit in the first place.
Mittens
GM, 823 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sat 7 Jan 2012
at 19:33
  • msg #215

Re: Forced movement

What's the background benefit that lets you MC more than once?  I'm building a defender, but I want it to be the "everything" character....  So far I've got Zombie Cyborg Vampire (Revnant Warforged, Vampiric Heritage feat.)  I plan to add cowboy (quick draw feat) at some point.  Ninja (rogue or assasin MC).  And of course Pirate (Corsair? PP  I forget the prereqs for this.)  I'll get a horned helm to sport some viking flavor.  Not sure what other MC I'd want to take, but I know I'd love to take 'em all, heh.  And now with themes out, I'm sure there's a million options there that would be awesome.  But those aren't in my charbuilder so I tend to not pay them much attention.
Matt
player, 308 posts
I am two things.
A Fighter, and a Fighter
Sat 7 Jan 2012
at 22:30
  • msg #216

Re: Forced movement

Mittens GM Department:
(Sadly, Matt's parry can't trigger.

  ...It's not Matt's turn though, he moved, readied an action (Shield Feint) and then his turn was done.  Unless readying an action means it is your turn forever.

  I could understand the issues if Matt had Delayed his turn. But he didn't.

EDIT: I keep forgetting, readying an non immediate power means 'haha, you can't use immediate powers'. how counter intuitive.

  As for a BG that lets you multiclass more than once, there isn't one.  Or if there ever was, they got rid of it fast.  The only BG's that even have the WORD multiclass in them, are merely making flavor suggestions that you take multiclass feats to help fit your BG theme.

  The piratey PP is a Martial requirement.  Rogues count as martial and are close enough to get considered Ninja at times.  You dont even need the Vampire multiclass since vampire is now a real class, and even the official DnD people have listed revenant Warforged vampires on the button examples in webtools.

  So as I've commented to Seth before, Revenant Warforged(race) Vampire(Class) Rogue(Multiclass) Pirate (Paragon).  There, you have the titular Ninja Pirate Zombie Robot.  And with themes you can throw in 'weak werewolf' on top of it all.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:15, Sat 07 Jan 2012.
Timothius
GM, 307 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sat 7 Jan 2012
at 23:48
  • msg #217

Re: Forced movement

Two multiclass BG benefit:
Forgotten Realms
Windrise Ports
Dragon Magazine #376
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 332 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Sat 7 Jan 2012
at 23:54
  • msg #218

Re: Forced movement

Like I said 'or got rid of it fast'.  Windrise is what Seth uses as the Crystal Cloister BG.  And it is currently +1 Lv 1 language, add skill to C list.

  We've had this conversation before about that BG.  Less than four times, more than once, heh.
This message was last edited by the GM at 23:56, Sat 07 Jan 2012.
Mittens
GM, 824 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sun 8 Jan 2012
at 17:12
  • msg #219

Re: Forced movement

phb 2 178:
This section describes a number of background
elements you can use as inspiration for fleshing out
your character. You can choose any number of these
background elements
,


.... WOOOOO!!!!  Well that explains why the char builder has it so you can select multiple BGs.  Sure, you can only choose one benefit, but that's not the point.  Legion was a kidnapped, possessed, reformed villain who as a student of Ironstone and Callanar had a naive arrogance about being a twilight dreaming sewer wretch....

I don't plan to take ALL the BG benefits, but I could if I wanted.  Which would cover tonns and tonns of elements I was worried I couldn't possible cover through MC, class, race, themes, and feats.  BG: the ultimate "I got that too!" for chargen.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:13, Sun 08 Jan 2012.
Timothius
GM, 308 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sun 8 Jan 2012
at 17:17
  • msg #220

Re: Forced movement

Joe Darkthorne:
We've had this conversation before about that BG.  Less than four times, more than once, heh.


Yet you didn't remember which bg we were talking about. I was just clarifying. ;)

Personally, I thought it a bit powerful with the multiclass thing. I wonder if that's the only bg they've errattaed.

Still, there are times when I think "GOSH I'd like to multiclass. Just once more." heh. :) Ah well. I feel it would be robbing Bard if anyone else could break that rule.
May
player, 79 posts
Draconic determination
Cheerful demeanor
Mon 9 Jan 2012
at 05:18
  • msg #221

Re: Forced movement

XD Apparently, Seth and Will's posts in Scales never showed up as red for me! Anyway... working on posts now.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 333 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Mon 9 Jan 2012
at 05:22
  • msg #222

Re: Forced movement

  Eh, I'm pretty sure I'm up to post in a million places.  I'll even get around to it sometime!
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 334 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Mon 9 Jan 2012
at 20:12
  • msg #223

Re: Forced movement

RL RANT

So, the bad news.  Soon I'm off to stay with Mom at the ER all day.

The worse news.  She hasn't even called the ER yet.  Because she wants to take care of some things first.  But she has to call.  She has been the best she's ever been the past several days.

  But today, the day she is told "You haven't been to the ER.  You're on the bottom of the list.  You're not helping your case." by that Pain/Psych clinic she really wants to get into.  Now, she's having another case of 'worse than it's ever been' while still able to take her time and do everything when it's most convenient.

  The very worst part.  This situation, when we were alone in house as brother went to get stuff she wanted from drugstore, I told her "I think you are faking. Tell me why."
  Answer 1: Because you've seen me worse?  (Wrong, but curious. "Worst she's ever been" but that's first answer?)
  Answer 2: Because I was told I need to go to the ER by the clinic today? (correct!

  She was amazingly unshocked and understanding about my concerns, firm affimations she wasn't faking, my admiting I had no idea what to think and was just worried about her...  And then for the next five minutes she made obvious 'ow' noises whenever she did anything... Then no more past five minutes.

  See you sometime whenever.
Mittens
GM, 825 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 9 Jan 2012
at 20:19
  • msg #224

Re: Forced movement

Oh my.  Hope things work out.
Timothius
GM, 309 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Mon 9 Jan 2012
at 21:30
  • msg #225

Re: Forced movement

Hope that goes well as it can. Glad you and her finally got things sorted out at least. And that she took it well.
Pyrannosaurus
player, 31 posts
Monster InternTM Sheets
We Know How You're Built
Thu 26 Jan 2012
at 19:43
  • msg #226

Re: Forced movement

Forgot that I had rolled init and rerolled.  Got exact same result.  :P

[3102] 12-01-27 04:38:55 KST - c_fewell@hotmail.com
pyrus init 1d20
12

[2964] 11-12-17 07:14:34 KST - c_fewell@hotmail.com
Pyrus init 1d20
12
Surya Shemesh
player, 60 posts
Monster InternTM Sheets
We Know How You're Built
Thu 9 Feb 2012
at 15:39
  • msg #227

Re: Forced movement

quote:
OOC Style:  Seth think your points are good points.  Which of course the Module doesn't cover, heh.


I kinda figured.  More than willing to accept a, "You're a bunch of guards.  Just do as you're told," kind of response to keep things on track.
Angel
player, 311 posts
Deceptively Charismatic
Dangerously Optimistic
Sat 18 Feb 2012
at 15:57
  • msg #228

Re: Forced movement

Matt:
OOC Style: You mean, all those 'Natural Beast' Keywords attached of 87% of all creatures have been Lying this whole time!?  Nature skill, the other Monster Knowledge Skill Checks would like to have a word with you...


For real. I do wish dungeoneering or arcana or something *not* nature was the skill used to identify freakish horrors not normally natural. XD In fact, it would make a touch of sense even to have Religion for the giant spider since they are "sacred to Lolth". This specific case, though, I guess nature is the skill for it, but just like the "thievery" skill is used for disarming traps, the "nature" skill doesn't always identify what's natural. Unless disarming traps = stealing stuff in your mind.

But yeah. Even if "nature" always meant nature, what Angel is doing is rejecting D&D's reality and substituting her own. Just like in the real world, some animals inspired enough awe for people to think "that just isn't natural, it must be a god or a demon", so too is Angel seeing giant spiders as "not natural". After all, Angel doesn't know there is such a thing as a nature check. Though even her player occasionally goes "...really? Nature? WTF?"
This message was last edited by the player at 16:03, Sat 18 Feb 2012.
Adam
player, 232 posts
The noblest leader
is the first to bow.
Sat 18 Feb 2012
at 16:16
  • msg #229

Re: Forced movement

Indeed.  While we're on the topic of fist-shaking at D&D nonsense...

quote:
Nevermind Druids and Shamans use Enchanted Gear just as much as any other PC class.


Enchant Magic Item.  Good for holy symbols, primal totems, martial weapons, and shadowy armor.  Oh yeah.  And wizard's wands too.  Well in MY world, "magic" totems are only "arcane" in the OOC mechanics sense.  Flavor wise, holy symbols gain their powers from the same source as clerics.  Totems from the same source as shaman.  And so forth.  Consider Forgotten Realms.  Where the arcane is going crazy.  So when you destroy the relic of an evil god it bursts into blue flame because it had an enchantment on it.  >.>
Matt
player, 326 posts
I am two things.
A Fighter, and a Fighter
Sat 18 Feb 2012
at 22:53
  • msg #230

Re: Forced movement

  I'm mostly poking fun at the complete uselessness of Dungoneering again (Meant for literal dungeons an subterranean environments...  Nature still used for Subterranean wildlife, while Dungeoneering is used for Aberrant creatures from beyond space and time... WHAT?).

  As for Divinely enchanted gear, Bahamut is kind of stiffing you then, "Go forth and fight evil in my name!... No, you can only have a +1, sorry."  Besides, Enchantment from God=Enchantment from Cleric with ritual=Enchantment from Artificer.  Create Magic Item is No Check anyways.  Really all you get out of claiming differences is openings for 'Better Than You, haha!' people to try and claim their enchantments are more proper while yours are twisted perversions of the natural or divine order...  Over the same exact items.

  Stereotype Elves don't need any more ammo.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 335 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Sun 19 Feb 2012
at 08:15
  • msg #231

Re: Forced movement

Entirely unrelated to anything, but I finally got TF2 to stop crashing every time I tried to render a replay clip (It seems my problem was trying to do so for 'Web' resolution for my web video instead of just using the default, silly me).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K70_RknIq1M
Timothius
GM, 310 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sun 19 Feb 2012
at 15:05
  • msg #232

Re: Forced movement

Never did understand betraying team mates in any FPS. XD Glad you worked things out. Still got some of the fondest memories from Star Trek Voyager Elite Force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...E2%80%93_Elite_Force

That's the game Chris and I got to play as Beavis and Butthead because bringing in custom characters was so dang easy.
Mittens
GM, 827 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sun 19 Feb 2012
at 15:14
  • msg #233

Re: Forced movement

Beavis and Butthead running around in Helms Deep shooting each other with Star Trek weapons.  There's nothing else quite like it.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 336 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Sun 19 Feb 2012
at 21:12
  • msg #234

Re: Forced movement

Timothius:
Never did understand betraying team mates in any FPS. XD Glad you worked things out. Still got some of the fondest memories from Star Trek Voyager Elite Force.

It's been forever since I played Elite force, though I didn't mod it any.

  The comment line is, as the first comment on video states, a bad pun.  The name of the Map that was on is called "Double Cross".  And the Chargin' Targe is a shield for the Demoman that gives them a straight ling screaming charge.

  He could have stopped himself too, had he just swung his sword.
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:13, Sun 19 Feb 2012.
Hoal
player, 52 posts
BrB, ceasing to exist.
Back in five minutes.
Mon 12 Mar 2012
at 19:40
  • msg #235

Re: Forced movement

Tim posted:
OOC: Something that has occurred to me is that while I appreciate the 4e rules that simplify "you know what this magic item does" to being automatic (earlier editions, you had to have the skill to decipher and then on top of that, the skill to even USE the thing "Use Magic Item" skill), I doubt world-changing artifacts would be left alone with easy-to-read much less easy-to-use stuff. It breaks my brain to think anyone would have "eats the moon" powers naked for anyone to pick up and use as they please. At least on purpose.

Artifacts, as they tend to be uniquely written things, tend to get module cheats. Plus as I've often ranted, Rules As Written you are not allowed to recognize so much as a Magic Missile if you are TRAINED in Arcana.

They even have 4th Ed artifacts with traits 'informed' to the wielder that work AGAINST eachother!  Crystal Of Ebon Flame.  Both wants and influences wielder to try and Free the Chained God, while second aspect of Artifact wants to contain them and be wielded Lawful Goody Good style.

Basically, as an artifact you pull whatever you want out of your ass because they are plot devices.
Timothius
GM, 311 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Tue 13 Mar 2012
at 00:12
  • msg #236

Re: Forced movement

Heh, yeah. Chris reminded me artifacts are treated different. But yeah, I always thought "you are a wizard and don't recognize magic missile when cast by another wizard" to be silly. In real life, a martial arts master will look at another and say "I recognize that style! That's Southern Mantis!" without having ever seen any of the moves just demonstrated, simply because what he sees "feels" like Southern Mantis. Heck... in real life, a martial arts master can look at someone WALKING and be all "Ah... he studies martial arts" and gauge about what level with some decent accuracy. Why use martial arts? Well... if we apply the "can't recognize another person using a power within even your own school of thought, such as a fellow wizard, then wouldn't it make sense a monk can't recognize another monk using the same at-will he knows?

All ranting aside, obviously, I agree with you that "can't recognize what it is at all" is silly. Though obviously in the same breath, we both also agree it's silly to look at someone wearing leather and go "You're obviously a rogue".
Mittens
GM, 830 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Tue 13 Mar 2012
at 02:17
  • msg #237

Re: Forced movement

DMG 27:
It’s not fun to make characters guess what a magic
item is or try to use a magic item without knowing
its capabilities. You can make an exception for really
special items, including artifacts. Even then, tell the
player at least any numerical bonus the item gives. You
don’t want to hear, “I hit AC 31 . . . plus whatever this
sword’s bonus is,” for hours or weeks on end.

Mittens
GM, 831 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sat 17 Mar 2012
at 21:22
  • msg #238

Re: Forced movement

quote:
OOC Style: 2 fails? But the errata...


*Looks up errata out of curiosity*

quote:
Step 2: Level and Complexity [Revision/Deletion]
Dungeon Master’s Guide, page 72–73
In the table, replace all values in the Failures column with “3”


You can't be serious.  Complexity 5: 12 successes before 3 failures?!  Good grief!  Tack up another reason for me to hate errata and skill challenges.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 337 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Sat 17 Mar 2012
at 21:25
  • msg #239

Re: Forced movement

Errata Complexity 1: 4 successes, 3 failures.
Errata complexity 2: 6 successes, 3 failures.
all they way down to Errata Complexity 5: 12 Successes, 3 failures.

Yup, starting with only needing 4 tries and MAXIMUM difficulty being 12 sure is evil.  My original point was they made the lower ones easier, considering 3 fails instead of 2.
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:27, Sat 17 Mar 2012.
Timothius
GM, 312 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Tue 27 Mar 2012
at 09:37
  • msg #240

Re: Forced movement

Random question I feel I should already know the answer to, but I don't: If you have a reach weapon and use it with a close burst 1 weapon attack, does that attack become a close burst 2?
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 338 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Tue 27 Mar 2012
at 17:35
  • msg #241

Re: Forced movement

  For a Weapon Keyword attack, yes.

  For a 'using your shield, Melee Keyword' power like Shield Bash, or 'Swordmage Implement Keyword attack' like Sword Burst (itself burst 1), No.

  What power do you specifically mean.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:36, Tue 27 Mar 2012.
Elric
GM, 294 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Tue 27 Mar 2012
at 17:44
  • msg #242

Re: Forced movement

Timothius:
Random question I feel I should already know the answer to, but I don't: If you have a reach weapon and use it with a close burst 1 weapon attack, does that attack become a close burst 2?


First, sorry I haven't been posting lately, RL has been hellish.

To answer your question if the range on the power is listed as 1 or any other number, then using a weapon with reach, or without reach will not change its range.

If the range of the power is 'melee reach' then using a reach weapon will change the range from close burst 1 to close burst 2, and if you have a way to getting Reach 2 (there are a couple ways to get this) to attack targets 3 squares away it would become a close burst 3.

Unless the power says its range is Melee Reach, or Ranged Reach then what weapon you use doesn't affect it's range/reach unless there is a special property/power/ability being invoked. (Such as a weapon that specifically changes the reach/range of a power, but this mostly happens with implements.)

I do plan on resuming posting for the threads I'm up in, and in SfH later this week.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 339 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Tue 27 Mar 2012
at 17:55
  • msg #243

Re: Forced movement

  I'm kind of confused there, how will the powers that don't even USE a weapon, get a reach boost from a reach weapon?  In crazy circumstances like that Ki Focus that boosts range by 1, sure.  But how is a whip going to increase the range of Melee 1, no Weapon Keyword, Shield Bash?  Or is this a case of Burst being a keyword itself that can't be boosted range wise by reach properties (I THINK that may be the case, but I forget).

  I don't doubt that Burst powers cant get benefits from Reach properties, but I do doubt Melee/weapon attacks that don't use the reach granting item itself would get a range increase.

  Eh, this is part of why I asked Tim what specific power they were talking about.  So many keywords, so many different items or weapons used for attacks.  The fact he's probably talking about walking arsenal May doesn't help the chances of guessing correctly, heh.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:58, Tue 27 Mar 2012.
Elric
GM, 295 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Tue 27 Mar 2012
at 18:39
  • msg #244

Re: Forced movement

Joe Darkthorne:
  I'm kind of confused there, how will the powers that don't even USE a weapon, get a reach boost from a reach weapon?  In crazy circumstances like that Ki Focus that boosts range by 1, sure.  But how is a whip going to increase the range of Melee 1, no Weapon Keyword, Shield Bash?  Or is this a case of Burst being a keyword itself that can't be boosted range wise by reach properties (I THINK that may be the case, but I forget).

  I don't doubt that Burst powers cant get benefits from Reach properties, but I do doubt Melee/weapon attacks that don't use the reach granting item itself would get a range increase.

  Eh, this is part of why I asked Tim what specific power they were talking about.  So many keywords, so many different items or weapons used for attacks.  The fact he's probably talking about walking arsenal May doesn't help the chances of guessing correctly, heh.


By default, close burst and blast powers do not benefit from reach, as they are listed as Close Burst/Blast # where # is a number such as 1,2,3,4,5,etc... a power would have to have its range listed as melee reach/melee weapon in order to benefit from reach, and I do not believe there are any such powers. However single target powers like Lunging Strike (Fighter 1) has a range of 'Melee weapon +1 reach' it benefits from a weapons' reach and extends it further. While Masterful Spiral (Monk 1) increases the reach of all melee touch attacks while it is in effect. Now Hail of Arrows (Ranger 27) is effectively a Close burst ranged weapon power but it is listed as Ranged Reach and simply targets EVERY enemy in range. The key to finding 'close burst/blast' style powers that benefit from reach, is not to look for 'close' powers but melee/ranged weapon powers that target multiple targets.

Hail of Arrows with a Superior Crossbow and relevant ranged weapon feats feat can effectively be considered a Close Burst 45, although it still will provoke attacks of opportunity from adjacent enemies for using a ranged weapon unless you have a way around that, and there are a couple.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:42, Tue 27 Mar 2012.
Mittens
GM, 832 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Tue 27 Mar 2012
at 19:47
  • msg #245

Re: Beguiling Strands

Beguiling Strands does INT mod damage on hit.  No dice.  Requires an attack roll to hit.  So a regular hit with a +1 magic implement would be INT mod +1(enhancement) damage, and a crit would do INT mod damage + 1 +1d6, yes?
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:48, Tue 27 Mar 2012.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 340 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Tue 27 Mar 2012
at 20:05
  • msg #246

Re: Beguiling Strands

  I'm pretty sure that would still get crit bonus if you rolled for hit and go 20, so long as you had an implement with Crit bonus (some weapons have zero crit bonus after all, like distance weapon).

  I figure it's a safe bet you have at LEAST generic magic implement.

  If you got no crit bonus on flat damage attacks you still had to roll for, screw you rules they got a 20 on a micro damage attack, they get crit bonus.
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:05, Tue 27 Mar 2012.
Mittens
GM, 833 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Tue 27 Mar 2012
at 21:24
  • msg #247

Re: Beguiling Strands

Using a +1 communal longsword as an implement on my swordmage/wizard hybrid, yeah.
Elric
GM, 296 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Tue 27 Mar 2012
at 22:30
  • msg #248

Re: Beguiling Strands

If there is an attack roll for a damaging attack and it crits then you get the bonus damage. heck for some implements that use a non-damaging effect the effect might even be triggered for non-damaging attacks... not really sure. I'd leave it up to a DM to call, but a crit will never turn a non-damaging attack into a damaging attack, with the caveat that there could be some special specific rule too allow that in some situations. (Such as if the non-damaging power itself has a special crit bonus that does damage as such a thing is possible, or something atypical like that.)
Timothius
GM, 313 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Tue 27 Mar 2012
at 23:04
  • msg #249

Re: Beguiling Strands

Yeah. Can you imagine? Timothius has Astral Seal. He also has the Pacifist Healer feat. If you allowed for a non-damage power to do crit damage on a crit, poor Timothius would actually get punished for getting a crit. Stunned aka lose a turn for pulling a crit. "Omigosh! I didn't mean to hurt him!" Yes, Tim. You slapped that seal on their forehead, it hit them like someone throwing a brick at them. Only harder since bricks are improvised and thus, technically 1d4 dmg, while crit dmg is usually 1d6.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 341 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Tue 27 Mar 2012
at 23:07
  • msg #250

Re: Beguiling Strands

May can throw bricks (and sling stones) for 1D8 DMG though, but then that's special.
Matt
player, 338 posts
I am two things.
A Fighter, and a Fighter
Wed 28 Mar 2012
at 03:07
  • msg #251

Re: Beguiling Strands

Chris:
Lemme know if I missed anything.


Well, I'm not listed on the map's initiative order and I listed initiative in my last post.
Mittens
GM, 834 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Wed 28 Mar 2012
at 03:33
  • msg #252

Re: Beguiling Strands

Then add it to the map.
Angel
player, 322 posts
Deceptively Charismatic
Dangerously Optimistic
Tue 10 Apr 2012
at 20:06
  • msg #253

Re: Beguiling Strands

A problem:

In Ascension of Heroes, Angel made a plan based off an assumption I had: That the enemies couldn't see that far. Apparently, as soon as we are on that platform with the pillars, we get noticed. Granted, I figured out F8 is the one square where line of sight is gone for the enemy, so if someone sneaked to that square, the enemy couldn't notice. But that's one square, and Chris warned me these are the kind of monsters who just go for the nearest target.

Discussed it with Chris and apparently, since this falls under "characters know what is line of sight", Angel would know her plan won't work. So I'mma have to retcon Angel's plan. The one part of her plan where Matt and Adam block the stairs? More like, they can take point and make themselves targets, one of them on H5 and H7. The part where Angel, Mitts and Mav can stay put and fire at the enemies? Maybe, but line of sight looks like it'll be a bit of a challenge.

So in short, Angel's plan is scrapped/retconned. We need to all climb down. I think.
Victor
WIZARD, 1 post
Victor The Vistani Vizard
... Err, We Mean Wizard.
Thu 19 Apr 2012
at 09:44
  • msg #254

OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Well, got the rough draft sheet up for Wizard.  Even if I never use this guy, not like Tim doesn't have 19 trillion sheets of varying completion up for characters not in use himself.

Also, did some double checking Of Math,

Theorycraft implement powers vs Vistani eye. (#)= freebie expertise.

lv 10: +11(12) vs stats, and +14(15) Vs Will.
lv 20: +19(21) Vs stats, and +25(27) Vs will.
lv 30: +27(30) Vs stats, and +36(39) Vs will.


This Means Fighter Shield bash (Str+2 Vs Reflex) is actually awesome.  As it's Stat+Number Vs Stat... For Heroic Tier, as that power does not upgrade over Tiers.

Stat+Number Vs Stat powers good (So long as they scale, Shield Bash WILL get obsolete eventually).  No stat, Flat Number Vs defense Bad.
This message was last edited by the player at 10:00, Thu 19 Apr 2012.
Timothius
GM, 316 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Fri 20 Apr 2012
at 20:31
  • msg #255

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Highly recommended from an anime fan friend of mine is the series Mushi-shi. Said friend says he came back home from driving all over New York for 12 hours and by all rights, should have just fallen asleep. But he thought he'd watch the first episode. The story was so intriguing, he HAD to see the next. And the next. Until he watched half of it in one sitting and finally went to sleep. :) Sounds like a winner to me.
Mittens
GM, 853 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Fri 4 May 2012
at 05:12
  • msg #256

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Ascention of heroes Spiner 2 has a burst 1 within 10 power.  phb 271 says,
quote:
Origin Square: You choose a square within an area
attack’s range as the attack’s origin square, which is
where you center or start the area of effect. You need
line of effect from a square in your space to the origin
square (see “Seeing and Targeting,” page 273). For a
target to be affected by an area attack, there needs to
be line of effect from the origin square to the target.
You don’t have to be able to see the origin square or
the target, and concealment (page 281) between the
origin square and the target doesn’t apply.


They don't say that you cannot use a square full of hindering terrain as the origin square.  I'm pretty sure this came up once before with a scorching burst and we agreed that burst 1 within 10 can use a square of hindering terrain (i.e. a wall) as it's origin square.  Unless there's objection, the spiner will target G8 with it's power.  If there is objection it will target D6.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 352 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Fri 4 May 2012
at 05:19
  • msg #257

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

There is a difference between "Hindering" terrain like, difficult, annoying to pass over or through, etc.  And terrain that is a solid blockage.  Especially if Line of Sight and Line of Effect have no possible way of reaching it (things in which the rules DO say can/can not have results over).

G8 can not work as an origin tile.  I could see some headscratching over J9 due to the artwork for the stone pillar of that tile only filling in about 50% of the cube, but that too is a case of Complete Blockage.
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:21, Fri 04 May 2012.
Mittens
GM, 854 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Fri 4 May 2012
at 05:31
  • msg #258

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Oops wrong terminology.  Blocking terrain.  I still don't recall ever seeing it spelled out you cant use a blocking terrain square as a blast's origin square.  *searches*

DMG 44:
Blocking Terrain: Forced movement can’t move a
creature through blocking terrain (page 61). Every
square along the path must be a space the creature
could normally occupy

nope.  *continues searching*

DMG 61:
Blocking Terrain
Blocking terrain prevents movement and blocks line of
sight

nope.  *continues searching*

DMG 60:

Blocking Terrain: Blocking terrain prevents movement,
blocks line of sight and line of effect, and
provides cover.

THERE it is!  Blocks line of effect.  The 'targeting is from a corner of a square' bit is what threw me.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 353 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Fri 4 May 2012
at 05:43
  • msg #259

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Yes.  This is why I mentioned line of effect.  Plus common sense of "No you can not cast your spell inside of or through solid rock".  Not without some loopholes you don't (Oh Sorcerer Lightning Strike, thank you Munchkins for abusing self damage as a decoy for it's REAL cheat to remain untouched).
Mittens
GM, 855 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Fri 4 May 2012
at 06:09
  • msg #260

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Actually.  Come to think of it...  that DMG wording still doesn't make it clear.  The picture on PHB 281 shows targeting is from a corner of a square.  In fact, all targeting is always from the corner of a square for determining line of effect, sight, and cover, never ever from the center of a square.  I'll have to draw up a bunch of forinstances to show that corners of squares have always been used by PCs and monster for any kind of attack, regardless of what sort of terrain is nearby.  But I must sleep now.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 354 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Fri 4 May 2012
at 06:14
  • msg #261

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

That's because in all of those cases he is shooting into and for the rooms OPEN tiles You were asking if you site could use G8 as your origin square.  That would be like if the PH1 image used the black solid walls it does NOT list as examples.  Imagine those black walls that your example does jack to, That's what G8 is.

No matter WHERE you shoot from, anywhere, you can not use G8 as an origin square because I am repeating myself at this point.  Same problem for why you can't say "I use one tile underneath me as the origin square... Yes, I know I am standing on solid stone. What's your point?"

The only reason this is annoying me is the whole basicness of it all.  One of the reasons STAAAAAIRS makes me self rage so.  If I ever agreed to use a completely inaccessible tile as an origin tile before, it was probably a case of "Oh god, whatever to avoid argument" at the time.
This message was last edited by the GM at 09:49, Fri 04 May 2012.
Timothius
GM, 322 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Fri 4 May 2012
at 15:40
  • msg #262

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Before any flame wars happen, remember; Two blind men feel an elephant. One grabs the trunk and thinks he's handling a snake. The other grabs a leg and thinks he's handling a tree.

While I am in agreement with Joe on this, *and* see it as "obvious", apparently Chris sees it as "obvious" that you can use hindering terrain as origin square for area powers. So please throw out any conceptions of "I'm right, you're wrong" as we have now entered two completely differing views on the exact same words. Which is human. Not a personal affront.

That said, I would just as soon say that you can't target hindering terrain for purposes of area attacks and say "that's now our house rule" just to keep things civil.

I'm reminded of how matter-of-fact "makes sense" Seth was about the squeezing rules when to me, I kept imagining the person and their mount crumpling up into a cube shape. XD

So yeah. No more arging. That is the point of this post.
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:41, Fri 04 May 2012.
Mittens
GM, 856 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Fri 4 May 2012
at 16:03
  • msg #263

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Sorry you're annoyed.  Yes it is basic.  Which is why I fistshake at the ambiguous wording of the rules.  Tim found a fantastic example of how important wording is.  Q: "But I'm invisible!  And they're blind!  And I'm standing next to a roaring waterfall!  And I'm down wind!  Shouldn't they have no clue where I am?!"  A: "Not if you're not 'hidden.'  You must first be 'hidden' or they know where you are."

I at least managed to remember where this "ruling" I'm thinking of comes from.  Rick was DMing Shadowfell Keep for Tim and I.  We wound up in a room with a gelatinous cube and two zombie children.  Cube was defeated.  Zombies were standing next to the wall, and a PC was in front of them, 2 squares out from the wall.  I asked, "Can I use the surface of the wall as my origin square?"  Rick, ever the stickler for the rules, looked it up.  (So much a stickler for the rules that thanks to the example picture on 272, he thought that close blasts had to be centered on the caster when not cast diagonally, but thankfully wording saved the day there.)

After a few minutes of headscratching he came to the same conclusion I have: the rules aren't clear on it.  Because never do the rules say that the center of a square must be targetable in order to target anything in a square.  (In fact, they're so ambiguous, the exact wording makes it sound like dude on upper right "wall" example, same page, cannot be targeted by any attack at all because all four of his square's corners "touch a wall")  So he made the next "obvious" conclusion that I did.  Targeting is always from corners of squares.  If you have line of effect to the corner of a square, then you can use that corner for targeting purposes.  Which would mean that dude in upper right hand "wall" example can be targeted after all.  And this also means that if ever a PC wanted to attack a tree that fills a square with scorching burst, they can do that.  (What kind of doesn't make sense to me is that you can target the center of a gargantuan gelatinous cube or rock golem no problem, but not the center of a 3x3 wall.)

But that was then, and this is now.  Tim's right.  We'll just have to come to a ruling and stick to it.  The wording of said decision is important as already pointed out.  I was thinking of using the following wording: "If a creature of tiny size cannot occupy any part of a square, that square cannot be used as an origin square for a burst power."  I hope this resolves the issue.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 355 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Fri 4 May 2012
at 20:16
  • msg #264

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Right, forgot that I'm not allowed to explain, or disagree with anything if I admit I'm annoyed with it, lest it automatically = Argument, yeesh.

As you said, Wording.  Hindering Terrain is MOSTLY used to talk about mere Difficult terrain, "please mack a skill check to pass over rubble the enemy does not have to for", etc.  Yes, solid walls hinder you as well.  But that's more Blocking terrain.  Unfortunately, opinion land.

Surface of the wall would, in a tile based world, be the square NEXT to the wall anyways.  Can't work if the blast/burst radius itself can't pass through it, which there seems to be zero questioning of.  If a Scorching burst can't go through it, how is it going to come from where it can not pass through, kind of deal.  Of course, that was diff GM and they probably wanted to give you "don't fry children with pyromania AoE Spam" option.  Which is a good reason for a tweak.

I can understand how "But the picture doesn't fill up an exact 5x5 cube! There is still some open space one he edges of the picture! There is a centimeter of space I'm allowed to do it!" mindset would happen, which is where your own "If it can't be occupied at all then no it can't be used" wording comes in handy to remind that explosions couldn't pass through it anyway (if potentially around it), so yeah, you got it now :D
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:27, Fri 04 May 2012.
Timothius
GM, 323 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Fri 4 May 2012
at 20:36
  • msg #265

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Joe Darkthorne:
Right, forgot that I'm not allowed to explain, or disagree with anything if I admit I'm annoyed with it, lest it automatically = Argument, yeesh.


Nobody said you can't explain or disagree. I was simply reminding everyone present (Chris and myself included) of mindset so that arguing WON'T happen. Argument prevention does not = Stopping an argument that's in progress. When Chris and I began arguing about it, I could feel my annoyance and his annoyance both rising. So I wrote what I wrote for everyone's benefit.

So I guess in response: Right, forgot that I'm not allowed to remind people to calm down lest it automatically be "Joe's fault. Chris is a saint". :p

But yeah. I proposed finding the question on the forums to see what the official people say. After all, I'm sure there were a lot of people who thought "Hey, I'm invisible, so I don't have to roll stealth, right?" wrong. >.> Which, by the way, the guy went on to answer why stealth rules are SO restricted. It's basically possible to be completely un-targetable the entire encounter, every encounter, thus becoming invincible.

But on that topic (Actually, slight change of topic), I say it HAS to be a GM's call. Just like I'm expecting Maverick to fail at spying when the GM doesn't want him to in Star Wars. "Oh... he's trying to find out when Nella gets off work... hmmm... well she notices you. Doesn't matter you're a god of spying." Next attempt: Leave a recorder. "She notices the recorder." Next attempt: bluntly follow her. "Ummm.. uh... OK fine. You find out." XD All the while, I'm like "why do I have stealth?"

Not that that WILL happen, just expecting it to. If not with something like Nella, expect something else.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 356 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Fri 4 May 2012
at 20:42
  • msg #266

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Timothius:
So I guess in response: Right, forgot that I'm not allowed to remind people to calm down lest it automatically be "Joe's fault. Chris is a saint". :p
Fair point <.<

Stealth... Rules... Will to live... crumbling... blargdfhsg.

Still better results than the last time I asked about rules on an official forum though, No answer ("uh... do whatever your GM says."  I guess the rule isn't a rule?) it apparently became a bannable offense or something to do so once more people started asking it or variants on it.

Though, GM calls are one thing, and can indeed be needed.  But it's different when a one time GM call can become considered "Oh, that's how things work by default right?" that is mostly what I'm trying to bypass.

As for invisible, you still cause a huge to-hit penalty for being invisible anyways ;D  My own mindset mix of rules and results for Invisible is Stealth is needed purely so they don't hear your obvious invisible man footsteps and such, so they do not know an invisible person is around.  Alsox2, Compendium entry for Hidden ends with "See Also Invisible".  My guess is the nitpicks there is "Hidden clearly listed to = Invisible.  But no clear listing of the other way around occurring, despite invisible being an END RESULT of hidden"

Warforged Paladin: They don't know I'm here, I'm INVISIBLE! *clank clank CLANK clank*.  Still MECHANICALLY Hidden, but not SNEAKY 100% hidden.

I do approve of you're OBVIOUS FOR SPITE! success with Maverick.  As we both know, Stealth "Rules" only seem to get firmly applied to the players, while NPCs and plot get to only use whatever parts benefit themselves most of the time.

  That's a poor example of GM call being needed for success anyways, when it's clearly GM call (unless they got some REALLY good rolls) for all your failures in the first place.
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:55, Fri 04 May 2012.
Mittens
GM, 857 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sat 5 May 2012
at 17:20
  • msg #267

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Matt:
time to play "Break the Kneecap With the Hammmer"... It is a very bluntly named ga-oh that was just terrible... Wordplay.


lol!  XD
Timothius
GM, 324 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sat 5 May 2012
at 18:57
  • msg #268

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Joe Darkthorne:
Stealth... Rules... Will to live... crumbling... blargdfhsg.


I know, right? ;.;

Joe Darkthorne:
I do approve of you're OBVIOUS FOR SPITE! success with Maverick.


Even if the example I gave hasn't happened yet, heh. But yes... you and I have said before what a wonderful thing spite can be. Thanks for the approval rating. ;)
Mittens
GM, 858 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sun 6 May 2012
at 00:42
  • msg #269

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

So all these rules lookups brought up an interesting "you're doing it wrong" rules tidbit.  I wanted to skim through the errata before mentioning it, but apparently rules as written and as intended do not grant fighters a wis bonus to an immediate attack vs marked enemy who shifts, and fighter immediate interrupt attacks do not stop shift movement.

phb 76 original rules:
Combat Challenge
In combat, it’s dangerous to ignore a fighter. Every
time you attack an enemy, whether the attack hits or
misses, you can choose to mark that target. The mark
lasts until the end of your next turn. While a target
is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls for any
attack that doesn’t include you as a target. A creature
can be subject to only one mark at a time. A new mark
supersedes a mark that was already in place.
In addition, whenever a marked enemy that is
adjacent to you shifts or makes an attack that does not
include you, you can make a melee basic attack against
that enemy as an immediate interrupt.

Combat Superiority
You gain a bonus to opportunity attacks equal to your
Wisdom modifier. An enemy struck by your opportunity
attack stops moving, if a move provoked the
attack. If it still has actions remaining, it can use them
to resume moving.


The immediate interrupt granted by Combat Challenge is not an attack of opportunity.  Important distinction.  Because if it were an AoO, it would allow fighters to attack marked enemies and prevent them from shifting.  Shooting while adjacent to the fighter and moving more than 2 squares provoke AoO and get the wis bonus and "stop movement" goodies from Combat Superiority, but shifting does not because shifting does not provoke AoO.

So maybe errata came to save the day?  Nope.  This is all they changed in all this time:

Combat Challenge
Page 76: In the second paragraph, replace “a marked
enemy that is adjacent to you shifts or makes an
attack” with “an enemy marked by you is adjacent to
you and shifts or makes an attack.”

...huh?  I don't see how that changes anything at all.  Well they don't give a reason for the change.  But it doesn't change the "shifting or attacking someone other than you doesn't provoke an AoO, it's an immediate interrupt" issue.  To further drive home the point, the errata fixed a broken monster that had Combat Superiority:

MM2:
Earth Archon Seismic Striker
Wis 21
Combat Superiority
An earth archon seismic striker gains a +5 bonus to opportunity
attack rolls and immobilizes a creature that it hits with an
opportunity attack.


errata:
Earth Archon Seismic Striker
Page 14: In the archon’s combat superiority ability,
the duration of the immobilized condition should be
“until the end of the seismic striker’s next turn.” The
ability lacked a duration.
Combat Superiority
An earth archon seismic striker gains a +5 bonus to opportunity
attack rolls and immobilizes a creature that it hits with an
opportunity attack until the end of the seismic striker’s next
turn.


Note that this monster does not have Combat Challenge.  It cannot attack enemies who do not attack it as an immediate interrupt, nor can it attack adjacent enemies who shift.

So yeah.  Been playing fighter wrong all these years.  x.x  At least now that bit in Weapon Master's Strike for polearms makes sense and isn't redundant after all:

Spear or Polearm: Until the end of your next turn, the target provokes opportunity attacks from you when it shifts
Timothius
GM, 325 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sun 6 May 2012
at 00:51
  • msg #270

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Discussed with Joe earlier. And yeah... a detail. Easily skipped since you CAN still attack a shifting enemy. Just can't stop them from shifting is all.

But what sane enemy is going to give you a free attack?

Even without the ability to stop their shift, a fighter is the most pin-tastic class in D&D. :)
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 357 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Sun 6 May 2012
at 01:19
  • msg #271

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Warning, incoming annual "oh goddamnit mangled mess of Combat Challenge's relation to AoO (none at all)" confused rambling.

Uuuuh?  Oh right, the Compendium STILL does not freaking list the Combat Challenge (same name as the class feature) POWER... Which is Immediate according to the powers inside builder only visible on character sheet end... Bleh.  once more effing compendium STILL lacking details for super basic things (which share names) throws me off.  They of course, still list Combat Agility just fine in compendium.  So I was again hopefully thrown off by reading "Oh hey, Combat Challenge is listed as X... Oh right there are TWO combat Challenges, and the monkey wrench wording one is unlisted in compendium"

It then gets even MORE confusing because there are so many Feats that are either "triggers from combat challenge" (A marked target is naughty and shifts or attacks someone else causing melee basic), Or your fighter superiority AoO buffage for AoO (basically, ONLY if they move away regardless of marks).

Plus, stopping movement part of your Combat Superiority passive for AoO. Not Combat challenge... So, if someone triggered Combat challenge(Marked target shifts/attacks someone), which may or may not be AoO despite being intricately linked with AoO abilities and feats, then it may or may not stop a normal move because BLAH.

It's just such a goddamned mess.  I've heard somewhere that's why they still have never put the Combat Challenge power back into the compendium class listing after they pulled it out.

I've been treating Combat Challenge triggers as AoO attack for sake of my sanity for the most part.  Because otherwise, HALF YOUR CLASS FEATURES DO NOT TRIGGER when you use a Combat Challenge attack.

Oh hey, the marked enemy shifted/attacked someone not me!... Oh wait, that's a melee basic with no mention of AoO, so... No Combat Superiority Hit Bonus, no combat superiority movement stopping (where that would apply), no AoO feats apply like "Focused superiority" or "make enemy grant combat advantage when you hit with AoO", etc.  You just get a sad little generic Melee Basic with no extras, unless you have a Combat Challenge specific feat (which in turn, will not apply to Enemy Moved/Made Ranged attack point blank AoO)

That's not even touching the "you only have one immediate action" situation.
Think about this, when is the last time any of your fighters, or mine, have had a NORMAL AoO trigger.
Vs combat Challenge "enemy shifted/Chris forced an enemy to take a shot at passing Mittens for Free Combat Challenge by fighters".

The answers is most likely "next to never" for enemies triggering normal AoO against our fighters.

I'll probably strip focused superiority out of Matt later and have to rethink my entire build planning because of this.  Cause, you know, "Attack Of Opportunity" never triggers.  Plus "Even if you do get Combat Challenge specific abilities, then THOSE don't apply to AoO and Combat superiority wisdom bonus does nothing for them! haha!"

EDIT: in a reasonable world I wouldn't need the disclaimer, but I'm only annoyed with The Rules, not at Chris for reminding me of the crushing reality of them. (Combo'd with the reminder "You Are Not Allowed To Commit To Anything".  I'm lucky you don't get banned for leaving in Super Monday Night Combat like you are in Dota or LoL).  I'm paranoid my frustrations are leaking through too much.
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:34, Sun 06 May 2012.
Timothius
GM, 326 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sun 6 May 2012
at 01:33
  • msg #272

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

AoO still triggers if someone moves away from you because that triggers for *every* class. Moving from an adjacent enemy provokes AoO unless you shift. :)

BUT!!! I say it isn't broken to play it the way we've been playing. And Matt's build is a different and neat one. So shall we just house-rule it to be how we've played it?
Mittens
GM, 859 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sun 6 May 2012
at 01:36
  • msg #273

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Insert "and this is why Tim and I are bothering making a whole new system" mini-rant here.

Personally, I'm with Tim on the house-rule suggestion.  I'd rather that tiny bit of Weapon Master's Strike be redundant than to have to deal with the headache of "so was that an AoO or not?" hair-ripping argen.

So shall we simply replace "as an immediate interrupt" wording with, "as an attack of opportunity" bit?
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 358 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Sun 6 May 2012
at 01:41
  • msg #274

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

It's not even the fact "Combat Challenge" takes an immediate action that has been my problem.  I'd have little issue with EXTRA attack openings to smack someone for shifting or attacking someone else eating an immediate.

My personal problem has always been the fact that Combat Challenge Melee Basic (Marked Target Shifts/Attacks not you), and Stock AoO (Melee basic vs Move, Point blank ranged.  Combat superiority applies and such).  Are mutually exclusive in their modifiers.

70% was in my own interests.  30% was to avoid Chris GM having to juggle TWO different sets of numbers when Matt does "something like an AoO".  Having to remember two diffrent To-Hit and +DMG numbers depending on if the fighter is using "Combat Challenge" Melee Basic, or "Attack Of Opportunity" Melee basic which, really really blur together.

And then same deal for Adam or Kita... Oh dear I think my brain started leaking out of my ear at the prospect of calculating separate AoO/CC numbers for all of Kitau's stuff.

  CC not even being an Immediate action would be pushing it into "totally sweet" land of though, not like I'd say no.

I am not without my biases <.<
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:45, Sun 06 May 2012.
Timothius
GM, 327 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sun 6 May 2012
at 01:46
  • msg #275

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Edited this into the house rules:

quote:
Fighter Combat Challenge
Due to the level of confusion and how not-broken house-ruling this feature is, the Combat Superiority and Combat Challenge features are now one and the same. All of it is AoO. (Originally, a fighter can not stop a shift. House rule allows that they can). NOTE: With this change, things like Weapon Master's Strike's Spear or Polearm feature become redundant. (Spear or Polearm: Until the end of your next turn, the target provokes opportunity attacks from you when it shifts.) We will need to find something that replaces such redundant effects.


Now we can discuss what to replace redundant feats/powers with concerning the shift. I would say something like "you can shift them to another square adjacent to you" would be fair.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 359 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Sun 6 May 2012
at 01:56
  • msg #276

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

I'd be fine with Shift still working out, it's only a single tile of movement and CC (as well as weapon master) is already punishing what is already a "safe" move.  Easy "fix" there.

Plus, it makes paragon feats that let you prone a dude if you hit them with AoO (Or, AoO OR CC with a tiefling one) more valid cause oh hey, you cant shift if you are PRONE sucker.
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:57, Sun 06 May 2012.
Mittens
GM, 860 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sun 6 May 2012
at 03:50
  • msg #277

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

I'll opt out of the "figure out how to fix the rest of the game now" part in favor of focusing on getting 6 knuckle off the ground.  If you guys want to tweak Weapon Master's Strike, and whatever else is changed by the house rule, go right ahead.

Don't worry about listing anything for Kitau, I plan to create my own charsheets from now on now that I know I can just post up power cards and such... even if the cards suck and are incomplete, I'd still rather do that.

Timothius:
All of it is AoO.


There ya go.  No immediate interrupt argen for fighters.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 360 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Sun 6 May 2012
at 04:19
  • msg #278

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Kitau specifically is... a problem because copying the images of the power cards will not always give proper results.  Due to her Tempest fighter nature.  Dual wielding AND offhand properties to consider, etc.

They have been getting much BETTER about such things though, but it's always best to double check (case in point, I lucked out with them fixing webtools to properly apply Magic Weapon's self to-hit bonus a week after I started playing kyle).

Bare Hands style monks meanwhile are still a pile of nightmare. "Okay, you are a Bare hands style monk who took the Bare Hands Damage Bonuses Paragon path... No, we will not apply this damage, nor list in your flurry power card your several extra damage bonuses to flurry.  builer will also commit suicide trying to distinguish bare hands and Ki focus bare hands".
This message was last edited by the GM at 04:23, Sun 06 May 2012.
Mittens
GM, 865 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Wed 30 May 2012
at 20:13
  • msg #279

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Matt:
I'm too tired to double check if the angle grants a defense bonus, ...(Fake Edit: It would, ...)


Huh?  Not sure what you mean by this.


Also...

module:
FR1ENDS IN H1GH 'PLACES
The tunnel that leads northeast out of this area connects
with the route that Yeraa's seekers have followed beneath
Six Kings. The Wordbearers are meant to reappear after
the characters defeat the monsters in this encounter. If
the heroes are in trouble, however, the Kech Volaar might
show up in time to help out. They could also be a source
of rescue if the PCs all fall. Don't introduce the goblins in a
way that requires you to play them for several rounds. Use
them as a dramatic device to make the PCs grateful for
their alliance, and to increase the emotional connection.

This message was last edited by the GM at 20:23, Wed 30 May 2012.
Matt
player, 345 posts
I am two things.
A Fighter, and a Fighter
Wed 30 May 2012
at 23:58
  • msg #280

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Attacking from one "corner" of a completely blocking chunk of terrain to where the target was with Matt.  The Determining Cover For Melee Attacks compendium entry.  It has nothing to do with the maps more detailed features, just the whole "Oh look its solid terrain you can't single tile diagonally pass around." deal.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:00, Thu 31 May 2012.
Mittens
GM, 866 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Thu 31 May 2012
at 02:16
  • msg #281

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Huh.  Either new-ish rule / errata there, or something I missed entirely since forever.  Any chance you could copy-paste it?  'Cause I thought only way to get melee type penalties from scenery was if you were attacking someone through a window or some such, but not around a sharp corner.
Matt
player, 346 posts
I am two things.
A Fighter, and a Fighter
Thu 31 May 2012
at 02:38
  • msg #282

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

It's just the old "check if all 4 corners of your character tile can reach the target in a straight line' deal that has been there since forever (just look at the ascension map). It's the same deal as Ranged attacks, its just that there seems to be a melee specific compendium entry as well.

Unrelated, and don't wanna call attention to it on that baord itself...  You have actually PLAYED the Sword's edge system right?  Beyond just you and Tim alone? I'm just a bit paranoid over "Oh, this rules light system looks great!" end results after what Metro City's system looked like at first glance.

I'll work out some stuff (after I remind myself how the system even works) for Metron and Junker later tonight still though.
This message was last edited by the player at 02:39, Thu 31 May 2012.
Mittens
GM, 867 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Thu 31 May 2012
at 03:32
  • msg #283

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Yeah I've played it.  It's got it's downsides.  Sword's Edge, like real freeform, requires the players to be willing to accept the GM being the final say on what does and doesn't "make sense" for the PC to be able to get away with.

The reason we went with Swords Edge is to reign in certain (not Joe) players acting like their characters are invincible.  No matter how well you min/max the system, the maximum possible bonus to any player player roll in Sword's Edge is +10.

Player: "Barrelroll then beheads Prime!"
GM: "tries to.  Roll it.  DC 29"
Player: "Woot!  Crit!  And with my omg rofl bonuses totalling plus tenzillion..."
GM: "Max bonus is +10.  Prime's defense is 29.  With a crit, you score a hit, scratching his paint."

Player: "Railspike punts Mt Rushmore into orbit!"
GM: "tries to.  DC 31.  Million."

So forth.

On targeting, original PHB says:
Determining Cover: To determine if a target has
cover, choose a corner of a square you occupy (or
a corner of your attack’s origin square) and trace
imaginary lines from that corner to every corner
of any one square the target occupies. If one or
two of those lines are blocked by an obstacle or an
enemy, the target has cover. (A line isn’t blocked if it
runs along the edge of an obstacle’s or an enemy’s
square.) If three or four of those lines are blocked but
you have line of effect, the target has superior cover.

Looking at the example on pg 280, that means that the bugbear no am haz cover.  If there were a wall to his north, no cover.  Wall to his south, no cover.  Even if said wall extended all the way to the attacker.  So why should melee guys get a penalty attacking around a corner, where ranged guys wouldn't?

Has the wording changed?  If it's all 4 corners must be able to have an uninterrupted line to all of the enemy's 4 corners, I've been playing wrong since they changed it.

Oh!  Speaking of which!
Carla:
(I can type posts at work, but don't have a connection, so posting here where I need to roll dice and stuff is not possible at work).</Gray></small>

I'm thinking of possibly doing away with using maps in our 4e games so Tim can continue to play.  I can roll dice for him if he needs me to while he's at work, but maps are the big road block for both of us when it comes to RPOL D&D.  If necessary, I'm fine with the PCs being given a blank check to always be able to target Monsters, but not the other way around (PC will always be assumed to have cover from enemy attacks. except maybe melee?)  Especially if it means we play the system without maps so Tim can still enjoy playing D&D.
Matt
player, 347 posts
I am two things.
A Fighter, and a Fighter
Thu 31 May 2012
at 03:48
  • msg #284

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

From you just now. "and trace
imaginary lines from that corner to every corner
of any one square the target occupies. If one or
two of those lines are blocked by an obstacle or an
enemy, the target has cover."

Yeah, your one corner has to reach all four enemy corners.  Trace a line to every corner of the target. That's four corners.

Can see your intentions for Sword's edge, but that will only make the PC/NPC gap even larger/player invincibility even more mechanically justifiable.

"Well, we all have vague durability, strength, and firepower now along a similar scale with eachother.  Therefore, STRONG AS MEGATRON who is in turn shackled to this system".

I trust the current players anyways.  Railspike seems content to just be a crazy Kool-Aid man with references to his past insane exploits firing guns wildly.  Compared to your referenced "Must be indestructible killing machine, and ACTUALLY KILL" player.

I'll work out something, hopefully I can make something my brain accepts for Metron and Junker.  As for maps, eh. if its the only way Tim can actually play ever.  The most "problems" I could see from this are area attacks suddenly getting... a lot more coverage, or a lot less.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:05, Thu 31 May 2012.
Mittens
GM, 868 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Thu 31 May 2012
at 04:22
  • msg #285

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Matt:
It's just the old "check if all 4 corners of your character tile can reach the target in a straight line' deal that has been there since forever (just look at the ascension map). It's the same deal as Ranged attacks, its just that there seems to be a melee specific compendium entry as well.


/confused.  Are you saying 4 corners of character?  4 corners of enemy?  Both?  And what's the wording of the melee specific entry in the compendium?

Barrelroll beheading Prime was admittedly far more facepalm.  My issue with Railspike (and Tim agrees) isn't the "must kill powerful enemy!" so much as the magnitude of everything else.  Firing guns wildly is one thing, but wiping out an army of minions completely unscathed is another.  Mentioning he at least got his paint scratched might have added the tinyest bit of excitement to the scene.  Instead it's just, "Yawn.  These guys again.  Well my guy's a magnifying glass, and they're ants.  Booooriiing!  Send me something that I might have to lift a finger for, GM.  Like an army of zombie Unicrons."

Cool-Aid Man through some boulders would be one thing, but tunneling through a mountain is superpowered Megatron Fusion CannonTM level firepower.  "A mountain?  Pff.  Such squishy things.  They won't even slow my guy down."

Random rant: Dragonball series.  Not even Z series.  Roshi blows up the moon.  Even Cool-Aid Man would have problems trying to bust through The Wall of China.  Much less Mt Rushmore.  Much less the Moon.  And to think of Roshi curb stomping Megatron is kinda facepalm.
Matt
player, 348 posts
I am two things.
A Fighter, and a Fighter
Thu 31 May 2012
at 04:28
  • msg #286

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

I said...  Duuurp, Well don't I feel silly.

As for the limitations of the Kool-Aid man, it all depends on how thirsty someone is.

EDIT: Nitpick Number One about Swords Edge:  Qualities are pointless usage of points.

Six free points for chargen.

Option A) Spend one point to Create a specific "Quality" or item hooked into a trait.  A freshly created Quality defaults to +2 (good) on creation.
Option B) Spend one point to instead, boost a trait from +0 (Average), to Good +2.  Congratulations.  For the same single point, you can do everything a Quality can do (Qualities must be linked to a trait), and more.  Qualities are an entirely optional purchase as well.
Option C) Aspects can be increased for a single point per, your aspects default to Good +2.  For a large Non-Combat boost (as Backgrounds do not effect combat rolls), amp up your Background if you're BG is "Forensic Scientist" or, say, "Deception Medic (who needs hand coordination and knowledge for brain surgery? BACKGROUND BABY!)".  It does not outright say Faculty can not be combat based, but none of the few examples are combat based either.  (Railspikes Demolitions is technically noncombat, so whoo)

For styles sake.  I'll be giving Metron and Junker a single default Quality like the examples on TF board have.  But I'll be leaving my aspects at defaults to nudge my Traits a bit better on my two soldiers.

I can always edit things to your example's standards though if you like that better.
This message was last edited by the player at 06:26, Thu 31 May 2012.
Christof Ley
player, 19 posts
warlock FTW
Thu 12 Jul 2012
at 15:45
  • msg #287

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

I'm working on getting a character or two made up. Looking at doing a magic user of some sort and a melee guy, most likely a tank rather than a striker. Any opening I could get into?

Most likely wont have them ready til after the weekend, just an fyi.
Mittens
GM, 869 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Thu 12 Jul 2012
at 18:58
  • msg #288

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Only places still active here are the ones that don't include dice ever since Timothius got a job.  So uh...  Wrath of the Feywild?  If he doesn't mind having another player joining.
Timothius
GM, 329 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Thu 12 Jul 2012
at 19:00
  • msg #289

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Wrath works.
Christof Ley
player, 20 posts
warlock FTW
Thu 12 Jul 2012
at 19:20
  • msg #290

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Ah well ok. So it's a freeform?
Timothius
GM, 330 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Thu 12 Jul 2012
at 19:43
  • msg #291

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Yup
Christof Ley
player, 21 posts
warlock FTW
Thu 12 Jul 2012
at 19:51
  • msg #292

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

kk do you guys have anything specific that I need to know for making a character?
Mittens
GM, 870 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Thu 12 Jul 2012
at 21:49
  • msg #293

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

We're all presumably about lvl 1.
Christof Ley
player, 22 posts
warlock FTW
Thu 12 Jul 2012
at 22:57
  • msg #294

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

I thought it was freeform? Are we building characters, but then not doing any rolls?
Mittens
GM, 871 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Fri 13 Jul 2012
at 00:33
  • msg #295

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

My wizard won't be casting the Wish spell left and right is what that means.  May won't be leg-breaking elder dragons, the sword mages won't be replicating themselves, etc.  High level characters we are not, so high level abilities are not available in our RP.
Christof Ley
player, 23 posts
warlock FTW
Fri 13 Jul 2012
at 02:18
  • msg #296

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

ah gotcha, sorry about that. Sounds good:)
Mittens
GM, 872 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Fri 27 Jul 2012
at 16:32
  • msg #297

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Matt's up in ascension methinks.  Then the baddies.
Timothius
GM, 331 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Mon 6 Aug 2012
at 19:20
  • msg #298

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Hoal's up on Wrath. Don't worry, I know where I'm up too. XD
Hoal
player, 86 posts
BrB, ceasing to exist.
Back in five minutes.
Sun 23 Sep 2012
at 06:15
  • msg #299

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Recharge times, Minor action activation, and distance limits.  Plus yes, the fact it's only a personal trick and couldn't take anybody with him.  The "Get out of Finger Of Death Free" card is level 12 Pargon Path toy.

Hoal's not gonna ditch the rest of them if they head in.  He is in an unfortunate case of "You're all idiots, I'm going with you/Not leaving my Sister to go all alone into an obvious trap"  I could read the 'Plot: That way' signs, but wouldn't it have been interesting/anti-climatic if Hoal's opinion had turned out.

Besides, I really doubt Tim Traps are the stuff of Paranoid Player nightmares... Well, unless you pulled them out of modules or something.  Either way, thank you for your concern, but at the very least in this case I'm considering it less railroad and more 'Must. Comment'.  Railroad would be you forcing us to enter/refusing to have anything else happen, not 'oh look 98% of the cast wants to go anyways'.

Nevermind the fact you are 70% of the cast.

EDIT: I just realized I typed that having only read your OOC worries and not read the actual IC post yet.
Well.  Don't worry I know you, this feels more like plot progression/next encounter than Railroadness.
This message was last edited by the player at 06:19, Sun 23 Sept 2012.
Timothius
GM, 332 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sun 23 Sep 2012
at 13:58
  • msg #300

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Thanks for the reassurances. :)

Hoal:
I could read the 'Plot: That way' signs, but wouldn't it have been interesting/anti-climatic if Hoal's opinion had turned out.


I was actually pretty close to just having people go their merry way due to being smarter than falling for a possible trap. And to be honest, the MAIN reason I have this side track from the "let's warn everyone" plot is because I wanted a break from "Meet monster race. Monster race doesn't kill you for some reason" monotony. Which is a side thing I learned by running this; Some races, like the trolls, NORMALLY should have just laughed at our heroes and eaten them. And at level 1, we would have been helpless to stop them. XD But hey... that's the great thing about PLOT! Badguys are just as vulnerable (if not moreso) to it as PCs are. ;)

Still long for a Will-run plot. After hearing about your beautiful, insidious plot in SMT, it makes me confident you could run something fun. The players in SMT were just bad sports about what seemed to me as rather clever storytelling. But I also understand; EFFORT!!! XD

Suppose you wouldn't mind running a mini plot thing in Guild?
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 362 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Mon 24 Sep 2012
at 00:04
  • msg #301

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

To be fair, all my "plot" was, was taking the standard 'Recurring Jobs from Mystery employer' and adding a slight twist of who they were working for.  With several made up every so often incredibly stupid fights (Militant Amish want to release metal eating termites.  That one was just an excuse to throw dead bugs in Mako's hair because I thought it was funny).

Admittedly, they were SUPPOSED to react with suspicion.  But in the end, they didn't because "Working for somebody you know nothing about collecting strange weapons from other villains" isn't exactly off the usual track of events.  No, they got suspicious because their Mystery Employer made fun of them the first time he showed up in person.

"So... You attack the harmless chef, can't figure out that 'One Nostril Malone' was the man with one nostril, and thought Volcano In A Can was Hotsauce.  Why do I hire you?"

"He's being rude! STALK THEM WITH SPY ROBOTS!" / "He's being rude... That mean's it must be Will's character!" (That logic leap of Don's at least, was kept to himself until it was all over).

So it's not that they reacted poorly, or wrong.  It's that they did it for what I think are the wrong reasons XD.  Though since then, others have taken up the 'mystery person hires you to retrieve things' stuff again.  But more the standard 'it's there to give you something to do' reasons.

Really, I've got nothing substantial enough to run as a proper plot.  And that was pretty much my "One Good Idea". which in itself was just doing what everyone else has done for a source of oneshots.
Mittens
GM, 875 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 24 Sep 2012
at 02:21
  • msg #302

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Joe Darkthorne:
just doing what everyone else has done

Which is darn near impossible not to do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth

Speaking of running plots, I've been considering trying one more time my idea of "heroic level characters unable to stop the epic plot train."  I foolishly tried to run it for Dre ( Julious Treehugger ) and Yayvid.  Unsurprisingly, that thread died before the first combat was over.  Tried a reboot just for Tim and that died as well.  Maybe I'll have more success with Joe and Tim.  (Glances at Sink Hole)  That one dying is totally my fault.  Maybe that'll have more success if Tim joins?  Tim's familiar with that plot, but he never got much past what was intended as it's intro.  Which was a variation on the "in way out of their depth" theme.  But that's because it's inspired by an unwinnable storyline.  Maybe a fast-forwarding for the sake of playing the intended setting would do the trick?
Mittens
GM, 876 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 24 Sep 2012
at 02:47
  • msg #303

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Quelenna:
Me: "New interesting place!"
Chris: "Let's check it out!"

Gale normally wouldn't be of the Kitau / Mittens, "It's a trap! Let's jump in!" mentality, but the bait for this trap was perfect to lure in Gale, so I didn't feel out of character at all.  Yay coincidentally conform to Tim's wishes!

Quelenna:
"Liz near tears because her character is too sensible to stay with group"


I remember feeling upset about the time(s) I had to force Lucky to stay with the crazy Star Wars group.  In retrospect, I'm kinda glad that game died when it did.  I think conquering 3 star destroyers and the wholesale slaughter that goes along with that qualifies as jumping the shark.  Lucky had achieved his goal of finding parents for Maverick, even if it weren't official.  But the in the first adventure having a gun shoved in Lucky's face by an ally was reason enough for him to quit the team.  Had to force Lucky into staying.  Yay that that player stopped coming.

But then there was Tom, who's Bothan murdered however many civilians for no good reason.  And the player had the dirtiest mouth in the group.  And finally the last straw of him and his family accusing us of wrongdoing for Tim's having a health condition.  Sooo glad I haven't seen his face again.  Remind me again why I put up with him for so long?  Oh yeah.  Addicted to fun times with Tim.  And Tom's persistent grin somehow made him worlds more tolerable than most other intolerable nimrods.  There's also the fun we have mocking nimrods like the Gay Shark.  (Same dude who wound up in prison sounds exactly like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bALFpn2tJd4 )
Matt
player, 368 posts
I am two things.
A Fighter, and a Fighter
Wed 19 Dec 2012
at 22:09
  • msg #304

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

GM notes about Goblin or Hobgoblin adventurers: Go *censored* yourself. And/Or Die with the NPCs.

On a lighter note, those are the most GENEROUS DC's I've seen in a module ever.  I should be thankful, but it only makes me fear what the hell is down that hole if the ones in charge of sadistic DC listings decided to have mercy and give us a "Can't fail, unless nobody has these skills somehow" Challenge.
Mittens
GM, 879 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Fri 21 Dec 2012
at 07:45
  • msg #305

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Weird.  Module lists resist 5 necro, no vulnerable radiant.  Monster manual resist 10 necro, vulnerable 5 rad.  Going with the MM version because even epic wraiths are supposed to be vulnerable radiant.

Dread Wraith Level 25 Lurker
Immune disease, fear, poison; Resist 30 necrotic, insubstantial;
Vulnerable 15 radiant

Interestingly, only the dread wraith has any resistance to fear.  o.O;
Gale
player, 249 posts
Human wizard wielding orb
Robe of adornment +0
Tue 5 Feb 2013
at 15:40
  • msg #306

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Blanking on what to post for Hoal on Wrath?
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 363 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Wed 13 Feb 2013
at 19:36
  • msg #307

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

*notices Tim posted recently while he was working on star wars OOC post*

WILD HAND FLAILING!...  Eh, probably missed em.  Guess I'll shovel in a half hour unless proven otherwise.
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:36, Wed 13 Feb 2013.
Matt
player, 426 posts
I am two things.
A Fighter, and a Fighter
Sat 9 Mar 2013
at 09:44
  • msg #308

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Okay, my brain skipped a track because "Hybrids", and my brain assumed you were talking about feats like Unarmed Agility and such when you were asking "Unarmored Defense or Unarmed Combatant".  Double checking the Hybrid versions (since Hybrid version class features are often altered), some of my quickly mentioned points still stand.

Since both Monk and Sorcerer powers have pre determined damage dice and do not use Prof bonus, Unarmed Combatant is only of use for Melee basic/AoO usage (+3, 1d8 unarmed attacks).  But even then, you would still be reliant on STR for your Melee Basic.  Even a Full Class Monk has a terribly lame Melee basic if they don't either go STR secondary, or pick up 'Internalize The Basic Kata' for Dex=Monk Unarmed strike plus extras.  But that feat requires Unarmed Combatant class features.

Unarmored Agility meanwhile, is a +2 to AC which Terdisas really wishes he had, and will still be of use when you are in melee combat.

Big red text time.  TAKE THE AC BOOST HYBRID TALENT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.  You've seen what happens to Terdisas at melee range.

So, given the choice I would go with Unarmored Agility if you were a Hybrid Monk/Sorcerer.  ESPECIALLY because straight up cloth with no AC buff class skill gives you the WORST AC possible, next to taking cloth armor with 8 Int and 8 Dex.

Honestly, I would go full class Monk. But you know I'm biased against hybrids.  You mentioned Full class Monk with Druid MC.  So while I'm against hybrids, I do have to mention that stat wise Monk/Druid hybrid comes out perfectly min/maxed for Razorclaws (and you can take leather/Hide training instead of +2 AC wearing Cloth, if you didn't want to feat stack Unarmored agility for +4 AC wearing cloth total with two feats).
This message was last edited by the player at 09:58, Sat 09 Mar 2013.
Raichel
player, 146 posts
Lightning Reflexes
50,000 volts worth
Sat 9 Mar 2013
at 22:57
  • msg #309

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

My main reason to hybrid, admittedly, is because it's the only way to have at-will lightning at first level while still being a monk. The only other way that comes even close is to use my first level feat to, instead of MC Druid, grab Wild Talents feat and then flavor "Psionic Spark" as Raichel being able to start fires with a bolt of lightning. Which would be pretty cool.

It's not important that I have at-will lightning at level ONE, so much as having it some time this century, so planning for paragon multiclass is kind of "meh". On top of that, Druid's at-will "Storm Spike" is rather sweet, especially when combined with immobilization.

The main reason to go Sorc for Raichel is not only because it is consistent with her having inherent power, but it's lightning paragon path fits (Regardless of whether I'd get to paragon level or not, it sates something inside me just KNOWING i can take a given paragon path for some reason). But after looking through some Druid paragon paths, I found Storm Speaker and was satisfied. It too fits quite nicely.

So lemme see what I lose if I go hybrid Monk instead of full-on:

+1 to fort (From Centered Breath)
+1 to fort from the default class bonus defenses (since as a hybrid, I choose reflex)
Unarmed Combat (ability to use my fists a +3/1d8 weapons)
1 monk At-Will power
Endurance skill (I can only pick 3 skills instead of 4)

The thing I'd likely miss the most is the At-Will (another reason we love humans. Even hyrbid humans gain 3 powers). HP doesn't change (it's 22 HP at level 1 for either build). AC doesn't change (since I would be snatching Unarmored defense via Hybrid Talent feat). And before you say I'm losing a feat slot, as a straight monk, I'd still need to use that feat slot to MC druid.

I can compensate for the fort with a feat or so. But a 13 fort compared to an 11 fort isn't that big a deal. Both are so low, it's like "so what?". Unarmed Combat is a class feature and I don't think I can gain it any other way. Having more than 1 monk at-will is nice for variety (and for move techniques), but I'm still willing to give it up for the sake of at-will lightning. And I usually wind up using five storms anyway since it's multi-target and still high enough damage to not care if I'm only targeting 1 enemy with it.

Here's what I lose if I go straight monk instead of hybriding into Druid:

-At-Will lightning power

....literally, I wind up losing only that. Druid loses a lot when you hybrid it and you only get Wild Shape, which you gain At-Will anyway as a multiclass druid. In other words, the ONLY thing hybrid druid gets over multiclass druid is the use of the at-will power as an at-will power.

So yeah. I'll go straight monk and worry about gaining lightning at-will via Wild Talents. Besides... martial arts is more important to Raichel than lightning is. So I'll MC druid at level 2 or 4.
Curuvar the Brazen
NPC, 18 posts
By Mystra's lost spell!
What a simpleton you are!
Sun 10 Mar 2013
at 02:55
  • msg #310

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Lightning Weapon.  1,000 gp.  At-Will lightning attacks.  Can be put on ANY weapon.  If you get a lightning ranged weapon, you have at-will lightning ranged attacks.  Hint: Lightning shiruken.  Tada!  Problem solved.
Timothius
GM, 336 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Tue 26 Mar 2013
at 22:05
  • msg #311

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Hoal:
He considers the odds of the entire stretch of scenery being made up of disguised orges....  97 percent odds?  Is he mathing this right?


XD! You tempt me! That would rock!
Angel
player, 412 posts
Deceptively Charismatic
Dangerously Optimistic
Wed 17 Apr 2013
at 16:10
  • msg #312

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Is it Matt's turn on Ascension?
Matt
player, 439 posts
I am two things.
A Fighter, and a Fighter
Thu 18 Apr 2013
at 01:33
  • msg #313

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Angel:
Is it Matt's turn on Ascension?

Duuurp.  Somehow missed Mitten's update.  Thanks for the reminder.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:34, Thu 18 Apr 2013.
Mittens
GM, 933 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 22 Apr 2013
at 06:52
  • msg #314

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Matt Matthews:
  If she's bothering to even read this, I never secret PM'd the staff to be kick Lina out of the game


TY for clarifying that on OOC.  In my opinion there'd be nothing wrong (and everything right) about asking Lina be removed after repeated godmodding, (her charsheet alone was full of facepalm) but it just sticks in my craw when someone makes some random accusation and everyone (myself included) assumes it to be true unless it's refuted by the accused.  My original reading I was thinking, "And what, the GM's TOLD her Matt PM'd them to remove her?...  or did Matt tell her, 'I just asked the GMs to remove you.'"  Either of which seemed unlikely but without any refutation from Matt or the GMs I was left to assume one or the other was true.
T'shock
player, 2 posts
Teen Teifling
Great Sword
Wed 24 Jul 2013
at 00:42
  • msg #315

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

OK, so things to know about T'shock:
I built her initially as an unstoppable fighter. Then quickly got addicted to the damage I was doing with my giant sword. Goliath Battlerager Fighter makes for an unbelieveably hard to kill fighter. Well when I looked into some damage options in feats, I found Axe is the way to go. I then experimented with the idea of being harder to hit when Cisco's AC was equal to mine and I got jealous (He's a ranger. He's not supposed to match my AC.) Between upgrading my armor and switching to shield, he can't even touch my AC unless he's deflecting AoOs. Then I realized at around lvl 11 "You know... T'shock has wings. I'd REALLY like to fly" and with the group's permission, switched Goliath for Dragonborn. It seems to fit much better (even if my con-related things all take a -1 hit). Now, level 12 Scion of Arkosia, I can fly! And what's more is now that I look at my feat options, I have LOADS of dragonborn feat options that make the goliath ones look so-so (mostly because goliath feats are redundant when playing a battlerager). I continue to chase high damage output (you'd be surprised how often enemies trigger T'shock's AoO, both from tactics and the fact Cisco provokes them to on purpose) even if only on my AoO (though regular higher dmg would also be nice). I continue to chase higher defenses and such. But really, what T'shock NEEDS is higher Will and Reflex. Higher Fort wouldn't hurt, but her Ref is 20 (And only because she's holding a shield) and her Will 19. Remember we're paragon tier, so 6 of that is half-level, 2 of that is enhancement from neck item, and for Will, 1 of it is Wis/Cha while Reflex only has a shield to make up the difference. I'll give her build and the list of feats I'm looking at.

Here's the stats. I have the starting stats, then what's been added, and their result
Str: 16 + 2 (Race) + 1 (Lvl 4) + 1 (Lvl 8) + 1 (Lvl 11) = 21
Con: 16 + 0 (Race) + 1 (Lvl 4) + 1 (Lvl 8) + 1 (Lvl 11) = 19
Dex: 10 + 0 (Race) + 0 (Lvl 4) + 0 (Lvl 8) + 1 (Lvl 11) = 11
Int: 10 + 0 (Race) + 0 (Lvl 4) + 0 (Lvl 8) + 1 (Lvl 11) = 11
Wis: 12 + 0 (Race) + 0 (Lvl 4) + 0 (Lvl 8) + 1 (Lvl 11) = 13
Cha: 10 + 2 (Race) + 0 (Lvl 4) + 0 (Lvl 8) + 1 (Lvl 11) = 13

(Something I'm considering is lowering Cha to up Dex)

Equipment:
Demonscale Wyvernscale Armore +3 (Effectively have Variable Resistance 10)
Summoned Drakescale Armor +2 (Just in case I need it. And I have needed it once)
Sunblade Khopesh +1 (Lights up! At-Will turn dmg to radiant. Daily burst 1 Str v Ref; 1d8 rad dmg)
Flaming Khopesh +1 (At-Will turn dmg to fire. Daily add d6 fire dmg and ongoing 5)
Dynamic Dagger +2 (In case I need another weapon, or my weapon gets pulled from my hand. Which has happened.)
Floating Heavy Shield (Sinking into a liquid? What's that? Also +3 swim and endurance during long swim blabla)
Cloak of Distortion +2* (+Enh to defenses v ranged attacks more than 5 squares away)
Luckbender Gloves (Enc: Reroll 1 damage die. You have no idea how often this has been useful)
Demonskin Tattoo (Resist 5 to chosen type when I spend an AP. SEEMS redundant, but could be nice when I wanna resist 2 different things...)
Bracers of Mighty Striking (+2 dmg to basic melee. Who can say no to this?)

*Looking to possibly upgrade my neckpiece. The number of times I'm targeted at range has been rare enough I forget about this bonus anyway.


Feats I took:
01) Savage Axe (AoO deals Con mod (4) extra damage with axe)
   (retrained from proficiency fullblade)
02) Enduring Mountain (+2 hp when surge spent. +1 more for each ally who has the feat (total 5))
04) Berserker's Fury (Training in Acrobatics. 1/day +2 dmg until end of encounter)
06) Improved Initiative (+4 initiative)
08) Potent Challenge (AoO deals Con mod (4) extra damage with two-handed weapon)
10) Fleet-Footed (+1 to speed)
12) (undecided)

.....oops. All this time, I've been using Potent Challenge as added damage when I'm using a shield. >.> Certainly changes some things if that feat is technically useless until I go two-handed again. Which I would consider if not for the fact my shield gives my Reflex defense a +2. That said, that and Lightning Reflexes almost seem pointless because a 22 Reflex at level 12 is not going to help me. I may as well have my bare 18 Reflex. So if you can think up some ideas for improving reflex on top of those two, I'm all ears. Anyway... feats I'm looking at:



Encouraging Shield: Fighter
 Shield bonus applies to Will defense.

Stout Shield: Fighter
 Shield bonus applies to Fort defense.

Draconic Arrogance: 11th Lvl, Dragonborn, Fighter
 When you push or knock prone an enemy, you deal Str Mod (5) damage to them

Draconic Combat Challenger: D-born, fighter, combat challenge
 When you use your AoO provoked by your combat challenge, deal 3 extra damage (+4 at 11th, +5 at 21st) of your breath type

Reckless Attacker: 11th lvl, fighter
 When you crit, you can take a -2 to AC to make a basic melee attack

Punishing Axe: 11th lvl, Any martial
 On your crit extra dice (as well as any high-crit property dice), treat rolls of 1 or 2 as a 3.

Shield Mastery: 11th lvl, proficiency with shields
 Shield bonus applies to Fort

Dragonborn Feats:

Burning Breath: 11th lvl, d-born, fire breath
 Choose one enemy hit by your breath. It takes ongoing fire dmg equal to your con mod (save ends).

Dragonbreath Warrior: 11th lvl, d-born, any martial
 When you use your breath, your next melee weapon attack deals 1[W] extra dmg on a hit. Same type of dmg as breath

Empowered Dragon Breath: 11th lvl, d-born, breath
 dmg from breath is d10's instead of d6's

Enlarged Dragon Breath: d-born, breath
 You can make your breath blast 5 instead of blast 3.

Hurl Breath: d-born, breath
 You can make your breath burst 2 within 10 instead of close blast 3.
 NOTE: My paragon power Dragon's Wrath basically IS this. With this, I'd have two uses of it, more or less.

Opportunity Breath: 11th lvl, d-born, breath
 You can use your dragon breath as your opportunity attack. Must include the provoker in the blast.
 NOTE: Especially nice when you consider someone provoking AoO would be letting me hurt any of his allies in the blast as well.
T'shock
player, 3 posts
Teen Teifling
Great Sword
Wed 24 Jul 2013
at 07:56
  • msg #316

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

In the end, after discussing with Will, I decided on using my lvl 12 feat slot for Proficiency Execution Axe. Now to choose my weapon... Bloodiron looks pretty sweet, but still searching.

Lvl 13 (17,000gp) Bloodiron Weapon (Crit: d10's. Property: When you do crit dmg with this weapon, at the start of your next turn, deal this weapon's crit dmg again.) <-- Almost like having a +6 Vicious weapon!
Lvl 15 (25,000gp) Radiant Weapon (At-Will: dmg becomes radiant. Property: All rad dmg dealt with this weapon adds the enh bonus as extra dmg) <-- so... free +3 dmg for all attacks? Nice.
Lvl 14 (21,000gp) Transposing Weapon (Enc: Switch places with enemy you hit) <-- the number of times enemies have blocked our way and thus blocked a tactic make this quite the tempting power to have.
Lvl 13 (17,000gp) Withering Weapon (Property: Each hit with this weapon gives the target a cumulative -1 to AC which a save can end. But the target can receive the penalty again with future attacks.) <-- Hmmmmm... hitting easier. The save ends part is slightly annoying, but consider that every hit means a round or so of people hitting 1 AC lower.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:41, Wed 24 July 2013.
Mittens
GM, 939 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Wed 24 Jul 2013
at 18:47
  • msg #317

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Upcoming monsters have:
+10 vs. Reflex, +13 vs. Reflex ( lvl 10 solo monster )
+15 vs. Reflex, +17 vs. Reflex, +19 vs. Reflex(lvl 12 artillary)
+15 vs. Reflex; (lvl 12 controller)
+11 vs. Reflex (lvl 8 soldier)
+13 vs. Reflex; (lvl 11 controller)
+ 16 vs. Reflex (lvl 11 artillary)

conclusion...  having a 22 reflex vs an 18 will make a 20% improvement in survival.
Mittens
GM, 940 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Thu 25 Jul 2013
at 18:23
  • msg #318

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

vs. Will:
+10; stunned 1 turn, -2 attacks SE.  encounter
+10; slide 2 squares, minor at-will
+19; 1d10 + 3 cold damage, and the target is pushed 5.  minor, at-will
 +16; 3d8 + 5 psychic damage, and target slides to the nearest space outside the blast.  This forced movement provokes opportunity attacks.  encounter.
+15; 2d6 + 3 psychic damage, and the target takes a –2 penalty to all defenses (save ends) at-will.
+15; 2d8 + 3 psychic damage, the target is pushed 5 squares and is immobilized (save ends). (recharge 5-6)
+15; 3d6 psychic damage, and the target is knocked prone. Area burst 1 within 20; +16 vs. Will; 1d6 + 3 psychic damage, and the target takes ongoing 5 psychic damage and cannot use daily or encounter powers (save ends both).  (recharge 6)

And the list goes on.  I'm kinda surprised how much vs will stuff I found.

For reflex, I recommend the boots of quickness.  3,400 gp for a +1 to reflex.  For will?  Circlet of Indomitability.  3,400 gp for +1 to will.  These are untyped bonuses that stack with your neck item.

Coif of mindiron 3,400 has a nice power:
Power (Encounter): Immediate Interrupt.
Use this power when you would be dazed by an attack that
targets your Will defense. You are not dazed by the attack.


And here's another tempting foot option:
Boots of Free Movement
Level 6
You deftly avoid entanglement in these well-crafted boots.
Item Slot: Feet
1,800 gp
Property: Gain a +2 item bonus to saving throws against
effects that apply the slowed, immobilized, or restrained
condition.
Power (Encounter): Minor Action. Make a saving throw
against a slow, immobilize, or restrain effect that a save
can end.

T'shock
player, 4 posts
Teen Teifling
Great Sword
Fri 26 Jul 2013
at 01:54
  • msg #319

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Circlet of Arkhosia lets me do save throw at start AND end of turn vs dazed AND stunned. Granted, 21,000gp. So better version of Coif of Mindiron for 4 times the price.

Boots of Quickness (3,400) Gain a +1 bonus to Reflex defense.
Alternately:
Boots of the Fencing Master (2,600) When you shift, +1 AC and Ref. Enc: Minor: shift 2.

Thing is, I think Cisco has the Fencing Master boots. And even then, they kind of require me to shift every turn to keep up that bonus to AC and Ref. T'shock tends to stay put once she is engaged in a fight.

Diamond Cincture (5,000) +1 item bonus to Fort. Thing of it is... I'm currently wearing Belt of Feral Might, which gives me +Str mod to temp hp granted by my rageblood vigor class feature. REAL hard to beat that, even with a belt that gives a bonus to a defense.

For the head item.. Coif of mindiron or Circlet of Indomitability is an actual hard choice, given that I wanna improve my defenses as much as possible so I'm not being hit on a 2 or better.
Matt
player, 464 posts
I am two things.
A Fighter, and a Fighter
Fri 23 Aug 2013
at 00:48
  • msg #320

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

For Ascension, I'm good to try either way for Shadowhound fight.   Their teleport movement (along with the freebie CA and damage every round, if smallest bonus damage I've seen) is kept somewhat reasonable have only the single melee, perfectly normal, bite attack.

Hardest part would be the fact they are meatwalls despite being 'skirmishers', along with the AoE defense debuff spam.

 But since their defenses (aside from Fort) are not so jacked up that you can't hit them on a 10-11, they are nowhere near as bad as the legendary "level 2 ninja wolves" in defenses, as well as damage output.

If we go for the fight, I rolled 6 initiative duuurp.  If we skip the fight, please include a Wolf mocking Matt's inability to standard AoO vs teleporting to be met with thrown hammer to the skull.  Oh Dwarven Throwing Hammer, I don't care if you have no insane perks you are the best thing.

Also, any idea when we hit level 6?  Enemies are Red conning more of late, and our enhancements are expiring.  Only a matter of time till we hit red con Malta instead of red con freakshow.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:50, Fri 23 Aug 2013.
Kyle Killer
player, 2 posts
Fri 6 Sep 2013
at 09:12
  • msg #321

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

As much as I love Kyle (of all the DnD characters I've made, he's part of my Big Three), poking at things has made me stumble across something I really wanna try.

"Oh hey, none of us have done Thri-Kreen before.  I haven't done Arena fighter before and I know it's awesome...

"I CAN WIELD A HAND CROSSBOW AT THE SAME TIME AS A WEAPON AND SHIELD!?"  Or, light thrown.  There's a thri-kreen heroic feat for either.

Any fighter May would super high five is totally worth doing.

So over the night gonna put that together, think of a name, and when the chance comes up either Sub Assassin Kyle out for the Bug, or finally join the Multi DnD character in one thread club.

Two Tim Alts + Two Will Alts + 1 Chris alt = 5, at least.  Though I'd be fine with just one so you two can run more/4 person party is easier for Tim.  I'd feel like I was slightly cheating with two Melee murder focused characters anyways.  Your multi alts tend to have different roles, or at least different ranges.
This message was last edited by the player at 09:12, Fri 06 Sept 2013.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 372 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Tue 17 Sep 2013
at 11:26
  • msg #322

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Some quick details and thoughts on Pathfinder Monk.  Lemme know what's wrong, flagrantly missing, or would just be a good idea to take/deal with if anything comes to mind.  Such as a third lv 1 feat aside from Dodge (+1 dodge AC) and Bleeding Attack(1d4 ongoing bleed damaged caused by hitting with any unarmed attacks ever).

That and I really need to think of a name other than Monk for him, he's gotten enough attempts at use to deserve more than the joke name.  Norse/Viking stand in race child adopted by care just enough to shelter him monks till "suggested" he leave.

HP:  8+2+3= 13  (alternating 3+2,4+2 per level)
AC: 10 Base+2 DEX+1 WIS+1 Dodge= 14
Flat Footed: 11 (Wis bonus counts)
Touch: 14 (No Armor, says Wis Counts)
Fort: (2+2)= +4. Ref: (2+2)= +4. Will: (1+2)= +3.
BAB: +0
CMB: +3
CMD: +15
Flurry: -1/-1
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 feet Human.

STR: 16(+3) DEX: 14(+2) CON: 14(+2)
INT: 10(+0) WIS: 13(+1) CHA:  8(-1)

Skills Trained: Acrobatics(6). Climb(7). Perc(5). Stealth(6). Swim(7).

Feats:  Dodge(Class Bonus). Bleeding Attack(Human). and Toughness (Lv1).


GP: 3 gold, 7 silver, 6 copper.

Gear:  Traveler's outfit. Backpack. Belt pouch. Waterskin. Tent. Grapple Hook. Hemp Rope(50ft). Flint and steel. Crowbar. Shovel.
  Bedroll. Lamp, common. Oil(1). Fish Hook. Winter Blanket (does NOTHING).
  Torch x5. Candle x5. Flask. Chalk.
  Rations(7).
  Caltrops(1 bag)  "Every night before bed, like all sensible people do, I scatter caltrops around the campsite."


SOLD: Freebie Monk's Clothes (5 GP/2). Bought Traveler's outfit (1 GP). 1 GP, 5 Silver profit.  Hey, at least it's thematic.  Compared to trading down from a max freebie value 10 GP outfit (Explorer's outfit).

Weapons: * = Monk weapon.
Punchfist*: +3 Vs. AC; 1d6+3 Blunt DMG. Applies 1d4 Bleed.
Kama*: +3 Vs. AC; 1d6+3 Slashing DMG.  Trip trait.
Siangham*: +3 Vs. AC; 1d6+3 Piercing DMG.
Sling: +2 Vs. AC; 1d3 Blunt DMG. 50 feet.

What is a Siangham?  I'm glad you asked!  It's a pointy stick someone put a handle on so they can call it Exotic and charge you 3 gold.

About Temple Sword: Thank you for the website link.  The Temple sword (and thus starting proficiency) doesn't exist in the core book.  <.<  But considering it costs 30 GP and I start with 35, will probably do without for a while.

EDIT:  CMB, CMD fix.  Thanks Tim.

EDIT Two: Toughness.  so 13 HP instead of 10?
This message was last edited by the GM at 06:39, Wed 18 Sept 2013.
Keston Garess
Mon 14 Oct 2013
at 22:33
  • msg #323

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Kesten Garess’s Arrival: Late in the day
after the PCs first set out to explore the
Greenbelt, Kesten Garess (CN male
human fighter 3) arrives at the trading
post with a group of three 1st-level
warriors  under  his  command.
Kesten is a member of one of Brevoy’s
noble houses in name only. A DC 20
Knowledge (nobility) check is enough
to recall the scandal when an affair
between Kesten and a lowborn woman
named Tania, a weaver’s daughter,
became public knowledge. His father Evan,
a cousin of the Garess family patriarch,
disowned Kesten, who fled to Restov to
serve as a mercenary. He volunteered to
lead the small group of soldiers to help
guard Oleg’s Trading Post after his own
depression and shame grew too much to handle.
Kesten hopes to either make a name for himself as the
defender of a remote fort, or to find an honorable death
among the bandits and other dangers in the region.
In addition to bringing with him an opportunity for
another quest (see the inside back cover), Kesten could well
grow into an important NPC as the PCs continue to settle
the Stolen Lands and grow their nation. For now, Kesten
need only be a somewhat moody and morose guard. If
the PCs get into more trouble than they can handle, you
can have Kesten and his men come to their rescue, but
otherwise, he should remain at the trading post, if only to
give the post protection and relieve the PCs of any need to
do that job themselves.
Kesten and his men set their small tents up just south
of the stable, in the shadow of the palisade.
Akiros Ismort
Mon 14 Oct 2013
at 22:53
  • msg #324

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Akiros Ismort: Of the three lieutenants, Akiros is the
least satisfied with his lot in life—but that’s nothing new
for him. Simple farmers in a proud rural area in Taldor,
Akiros’s parents wanted nothing more for him than life
as a protector of the town—as a paladin of Erastil, no less.
Every moment of Akiros’s life was spent in preparation
for his acceptance into the order, yet not one month after
he achieved his parents’ dream and became a paladin,
Akiros fell in love with the married daughter of one of his
hometown’s wealthier merchants, a woman named Rosilla.
The affair ended all too soon when Rosilla’s husband found
out what she’d been up to and threatened to divorce her.
The thought of losing the life of luxury was too much, and
she told her husband that Akiros had raped her. Furious,
he took Rosilla to the temple of Erastil to confront her
attacker. The young paladin was flabbergasted, but when
Rosilla took things too far by spitting on him and publicly
denouncing him as a rapist, a heretofore unknown rage
woke in Akiros’s heart. All of his repressed frustrations
and anger poured out in one powerful blow, and with that
blow he snuffed out Rosilla’s life. As she crumpled to the
floor, Akiros knew his life had been snuffed out as well.
He turned on Rosilla’s dumbfounded husband and killed
him as well, and with the temple guards still in shock, he
fled the city. He barely made it out of Taldor, stowing away
on a merchant ship bound for Mendev. Akiros switched
ships dozens of times as he fled north, losing himself in
the River Kingdoms, living as a bandit, a vagabond, and a
criminal, and growing to enjoy his newfound rages.
Eventually, his wanderings took him into the Stolen
Lands—he’d heard of the Stag Lord, and still unsure of
where he needed to be in life, he sought this new liege
out. Akiros has been with the Stag Lord’s bandits for only
a few months, but already his commanding presence has
earned the Stag Lord’s favor—Akiros is now considered to
be the second-in-command of the fort, much to Dovan’s
displeasure. Ironically, Akiros has come to the realization
that life as a bandit is even more hollow than life as a
paladin of Erastil, and when the PCs make their attack
on the fort, he sees in them an opportunity for a new life
and, perhaps, redemption. At some point, once the battle
for the fort begins, you should have Akiros tear his amulet
of office from his throat, cast it aside, and then step in to
fight with the PCs. This can either be at a point where
things are looking bad for the PCs and they could use a
little extra help, or it can be at the start of the battle. In any
event, Akiros could well become an important part of the
Kingmaker Adventure Path if the PCs let him.
Monster Intern
player, 103 posts
Monster Party!
Monster Prices!
Tue 15 Oct 2013
at 03:04
  • msg #325

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Experience:

EXP Total: 605(1st Bandit)... +1,200(2nd Kobold)= 1,805... +1,200(3rd Grig)= 3,005... [+1,200?(4th Axes) DAMN GRIGS] +800*(Fake 4th Total)=== 3,005 + 800 = 3,805... +1,200(5th Bear)= 5,005... +400(bandit bonus)= 5,405... +100(1st Explore)= 5,505... +400(Spider!)= 5,905... +2,400(Elks!)= 8,305... XXX

Level Two: 8,305...  +100(Explore Gold Mine)= 8,405... +800(Soot Kobolds Diplomacy)= 9,205... +5,400(Mite Tree+Soot Quest)= 14,605... +400(Soot Bonus)=15,005... +800+500 (Random Centipede, 5 hex)= 16,305... +400 (Ring return)= 16,705... +400(Warg Worg)= 17,105... +260(Fangberries)= 17,365... +800(Outskirts Bandits)= 18,165... +6,940(Stag Lord Base)= 25,105... XXX

LEVEL THREE: 25,105... +400(Davick Quest)= 25,505... +400(Stag L Quest)= 25,905...


EXP Each: 151.25(1st Bandit)... +300(2nd Kobold)= 451.25... +300(3rd Grig)= 751.25... +200?(4th Axes /6)= 951.25... +300(5th Bear)= 1251.25... +100(Bandit Bonus)= 1351.25... +25(1st Explore)= 1376.25... +100(Spider!)= 1476.25... +600(Elks)= 2,076.25... XXX

Level Two: 2076.25... +25(Explore Gold Mine)= 2,101.25... +200(Soot Kobolds Diplomacy)= 2,301.25... + 1,350(Mite Tree+Soot Quest)= 3,651.25... +100(Soot Bonus)= 3,751.25... +200+125(Random Centipede, 5 Hex)= 4,076.25... +100(Ring Return)= 4,176.25... +100(Warg Worg)= 4,276.25... +65(Fangberries)= 4,341.25... +200(Outskirts Bandits)= 4541.25... +1,735(Stag Lord Base)= 6,276.25... XXX

LEVEL THREE: 6,276.25... +100(Davick Quest)= 6,376.25... +100(Stag L Quest)=6576.25...
Scott
player, 106 posts
Wed 16 Oct 2013
at 07:38
  • msg #326

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

  DURP.  Skill ranks per level are 4+int (and human freebie)   My pessimistic brain thought I only got my favored class bonus and human bonus per level.

  Scott cast click updated for the moment at least. Along with the Elk Temple Token.

 I suspect I'll let Perc/Insight languish, while also making sure to throw a point at swim every level on principle.  Hey, 7 trained skills but only 5 skill points per level.

  Even at 1 point towards it per level, not even putting a point towards it all the way to level cap at 20 would be nowhere near enough "Escape Artist" points to guarantee being able to escape normal manacles, let alone masterwork.

Comedy realization: The DC 30 for escaping normal manacles, is the same as FITTING YOUR ENTIRE BODY THROUGH A HOLE THE SIZE OF YOUR HEAD.  And it takes just as long.
This message was last edited by the player at 07:50, Wed 16 Oct 2013.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 374 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Thu 28 Nov 2013
at 02:24
  • msg #327

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Alas, I doubt you will read this in time.

For the next Seven Hours and 35 Minutes as of this post.

RPG Maker VX Ace is 75% off on STEAM, for $17.49 instead of $69.99.

I'd rather at least make the futile attempt than just mention after the fact 'oh hey it was on a huge sale'.  If we're really luck, it might pop up again on the "Nov 27 - Dec 3" Steam sales.

EDIT: I have purchased it as a 'gift'.  Email me your Steam account credentials (As in, Username to send it to after first friending for extra confirmation I send it to the right place)or just finally make a Steam account for RPG Maker Goodness because seriously, that's saving fifty dollars.  Just take 20 bucks off my Commissioned art bill or something.

EDIT THE REVENGE: Oh hey the Three DLC's are also 75% off which includes things like Arabian knights and Egyptian stuff.  Guess that's also going in the Gift Pile.

Also if you like, already have this or something I'm allowed to push a button and turn it from 'gift' to 'mine now'.


This message was last edited by the GM at 03:36, Thu 28 Nov 2013.
Timothius
GM, 339 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Fri 29 Nov 2013
at 05:51
  • msg #328

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Edit part 2 is a relief. It was 50% off RPGMVXA once, long ago, so I jumped on it. HOWEVER! I don't have any of add-ons. If it's possible, I'd love those. If not, enjoy. The RPG Maker is a fun program to toy around with! And with it, you can likely help test-play whatever games I make and even look at the programming.
Mittens
GM, 1002 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 2 Dec 2013
at 02:46
  • msg #329

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Joey:
"The traitor priest getting turned into a bear was poetic justice in my opinion. 


Important disclaimer:  The opinions expressed by the character are not necessarily those of the player.
Scott
player, 228 posts
Mon 2 Dec 2013
at 02:49
  • msg #330

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Mittens:
Joey:
"The traitor priest getting turned into a bear was poetic justice in my opinion. 


Important disclaimer:  The opinions expressed by the character are not necessarily those of the player.

  Fortunately, characters are able to disagree with characters without it reflecting on the players.

  Right?
Mittens
GM, 1003 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 2 Dec 2013
at 15:53
  • msg #331

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

They can, but it should be made clear IMO lest the reader get the impression that the author is supporting the actions and opinions of the protagonist...  It would be rather silly, for example, for Moradin to write a book that paints a Chaotic Evil character in a positive light.  Not that Joey is chaotic evil, just that I disagree strongly with certain opinions about the Pathfinder gods.  Or I should say, the way those gods are portrayed within the Kingmaker module.  Erastil's actions in kingmaker haven't been consistant with what I've read the god's personality is like.
Timothius
GM, 340 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Tue 3 Dec 2013
at 04:40
  • msg #332

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

And even then, that's a matter of opinion. I feel Erastil justified and consistent. But then, that's just me.
Timothius
GM, 341 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Tue 3 Dec 2013
at 22:21
  • msg #333

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Have a question; Healer's Lore as stated in the original PHB allows me to add wis mod to ANY cleric power with the healing keyword. Here's the wording:

Player's Handbook:
Healer’s Lore
Your study of healing allows you to make the most of
your healing prayers. When you grant healing with
one of your cleric powers that has the healing keyword,
add your Wisdom modifier to the hit points the
recipient regains.


However, I just noticed the errata for Healer's Lore (thankfully, the errata is in my character builder). Here's the difference:

Errata:
Healer’s Lore
Page 61:
In the second sentence of the class feature,
replace “grant healing” with “let a creature spend a
healing surge to regain hit points.” This change limits
the potency of surgeless healing, such as with
astral seal
(So I was at least right about using Healer's Lore for Astral Seal)

Your study of healing allows you to make the most
of your healing prayers. When you let a creature
spend a healing surge to regain hit points with one of
your cleric powers that has the healing keyword, add
your Wisdom modifier to the hit points the recipient
regains.


So now it's so specific, it has to be:
-Healing Keyword (LOTS of powers like that in the game)
-Cleric power (Cleric class only. So MC Warlord won't gain the benifit)
-Ally granted the chance to spend a surge (This leaves out a number of powers)

Cleric powers from the PHB that do not apply Healer's Lore:
 Beacon of Hope (lvl 1)
 Cure Light Wounds (lvl 2)
 Consecrated Ground (lvl 5)
 Cure Serious Wounds (lvl 6)
 Divine Power (lvl 9)
 Mass Cure Light Wounds (lvl 10)
 Inspiring Strike (lvl 13)
 Purifying Fire (lvl 15)
 (Divine Armor (lvl 16)) <-healing keyword, but doesn't heal at all
 Holy Wrath (lvl 19)
 Indomidable Spirit (lvl 19)
 (Clarion Call of the Astral Sea (lvl 22)) <-heals you to full anyway
 Sunburst (lvl 27)

Cleric powers from the PHB that DO apply Healer's Lore:
 Healing Word (lvl 1)
 Healing Strike (lvl 1)
 Bastion of Health (lvl 6)
 Strengthen the Faithful (lvl 7)
 Astral Refuge (lvl 10)
 Mantel of Glory (lvl 13)
 Spirit of Health (lvl 22)
 Healing Torch (lvl 23)
 Sacrificial Healing (lvl 27)

So Healer's Lore applies to less than half the powers from PHB. Personally, I don't mind too much. It's pretty sweet to be able to grant healing without a surge in the first place, so that doesn't need the +4 buff. And I have a power that lets me grants surge use twice per encounter (so does any leader, but still). To me, Healer's Lore already bumps cleric above and beyond. But I was curious your opinions.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 375 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Wed 25 Dec 2013
at 21:56
  • msg #334

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Merry Xmas

Also, every single sonic game that is on Steam bundled for $15 until Jan 2nd.

Sonic Hits Collection.
http://store.steampowered.com/sub/26498/

Of course, Steam is being super wonky for me and many others today.

Dr. Robotnic's Mean Bean Machine.
Sonic & all-Stars Racing Transformed
Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing
Sonic 3 And Knuckles
Sonic 3d Blast
Sonic Adventure 2
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle DLC
Sonic Adventure DX
Snic and All-Stars Rasing Transformed: Metal Sonic and etc DLC.
Sonic CD
Sonic Generations
Sonic Generations casino nights DLC
Sonic Spinball
Sonic the Hedgehog (genesis)
Sonic the hedgehog 2
Sonic the hedgehog 4 ep 1
Sonic the hedgehog 4 ep 2
Mittens
GM, 1021 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Thu 9 Jan 2014
at 21:25
  • msg #335

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Houserule idea for 4e to make combat shorter:

1/2 level bonus gets added to the to-hit AND the damage.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 384 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Thu 9 Jan 2014
at 22:28
  • msg #336

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Mittens:
Houserule idea for 4e to make combat shorter:

1/2 level bonus gets added to the to-hit AND the damage.

I admit I am very tempted, but that would get freakin crazy as time goes on seeing how that'd top out at an extra +15 Damage at level 30.  Perhaps borrow Seth's Darksun idea where we get +1 extra damage per Tier?   Or FINALLY confirm Yes/No with my HOUSE RULES OF BLOOD ideas, which were

  AT LEAST HAVE:  Party +1 or +2 Flat Damage per tier vs bloodied  (It would add up across the party pretty fast, applies to Magic Missile)
  PRETTY COOL: Party +1 To-Hit per tier vs bloodied.
  FOR OUR SANITY: Insubstantial/Swarm/Damage Immune Takes full damage when bloodied (resistant still works, just half).

 Or a more simple stealing the Staff Of Ruin's mechanic and just doubling our Enhancement Bonus damage (for a total of +6 Extra damage by level 25 or so).

Honestly though? our combats outside of the equivalents of boss fights so far, such as getting back to scales have been fairly swift (especially this current module).  And the largest problem wasn't DAMAGE, but being ABLE to hit the enemy/avoiding being hit (Oh hello May needing 17-18 to hit and enemy needing only a 5 to hit).  Or the times insubstantial or enemy self healing pops up.

So my brain's filters of Mechanics Suggestions is registering this as 90% "I want my controller class tiny explosions/no damage dice INT Mod powers to make a Sorcerer Jealous".  Nevermind that Mitten's has been wrecking face with her Encounters.  And Sorcerer damage perks still only buff their damage ROLLS anyway on that note.  Just imagining Magic Missile with an extra +15 Damage bonus, May as well burn your sorcerer or other striker character sheet even if you had that same damage bonus cause DAMN.

I'll catch up on my posts when I get back from grabbing foods for me and brother.

In other news, LOL account Hacked right before I went to bed last night.  Not that I've played more than once since I made the account like, two years and a month ago.  The whole "It's been two years so don't remember my screen name (if remember account name), and I never bought anything from you to answer half your form questions" will make this a pain, if it even works at all.  Principle of the matter.

EDIT before going out the door:  Doctor Monster Intern thinks Mittens is starting to suffer Symptoms of Acute Byronosis.  Wizards not ruling battle (or out of battle) efficiency with an iron fist causes the patient to form a rash (or was that the Gelatinous Cube exposure?)
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:35, Thu 09 Jan 2014.
Timothius
GM, 346 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sat 11 Jan 2014
at 03:06
  • msg #337

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Joe Darkthorne:
I admit I am very tempted, but that would get freakin crazy as time goes on seeing how that'd top out at an extra +15 Damage at level 30.  Perhaps borrow Seth's Darksun idea where we get +1 extra damage per Tier?   Or FINALLY confirm Yes/No with my HOUSE RULES OF BLOOD ideas, which were

  AT LEAST HAVE:  Party +1 or +2 Flat Damage per tier vs bloodied  (It would add up across the party pretty fast, applies to Magic Missile)
  PRETTY COOL: Party +1 To-Hit per tier vs bloodied.
  FOR OUR SANITY: Insubstantial/Swarm/Damage Immune Takes full damage when bloodied (resistant still works, just half).

 Or a more simple stealing the Staff Of Ruin's mechanic and just doubling our Enhancement Bonus damage (for a total of +6 Extra damage by level 25 or so).

Honestly though? our combats outside of the equivalents of boss fights so far, such as getting back to scales have been fairly swift (especially this current module).  And the largest problem wasn't DAMAGE, but being ABLE to hit the enemy/avoiding being hit (Oh hello May needing 17-18 to hit and enemy needing only a 5 to hit).  Or the times insubstantial or enemy self healing pops up.


I at least agree that combat has been going decently fast anymore. Thank you, Roll20! I like the "At least have" option, but I don't think it's needed. The "Pretty cool" is exactly that. Pretty cool. "Four our sanity" also pretty nice. But all three options can be taken care of via feats, powers, paragon paths/epic destinies, and magic items.

I like the idea of increased damage the most, though, if just because speeding things along is the intent. But really? I don't think any more bonuses are needed. In the end, if a fight drags on, the GM can go "K. Dead." Just like if a fight is over way too fast, the GM can add more HP to the monster. One technique I employ is I will sometimes "store up" dmg that someone does that, for one reason or another, winds up negated or reduced. Or I "store up" bonus damage I give the players without them even knowing it, which I gave due to smart tactics or good RP. In this way, the players still feel like it was their build, tactics, and RP that won the fight.


Joe Darkthorne:
So my brain's filters of Mechanics Suggestions is registering this as 90% "I want my controller class tiny explosions/no damage dice INT Mod powers to make a Sorcerer Jealous".  Nevermind that Mitten's has been wrecking face with her Encounters.  And Sorcerer damage perks still only buff their damage ROLLS anyway on that note.  Just imagining Magic Missile with an extra +15 Damage bonus, May as well burn your sorcerer or other striker character sheet even if you had that same damage bonus cause DAMN.

EDIT before going out the door:  Doctor Monster Intern thinks Mittens is starting to suffer Symptoms of Acute Byronosis.  Wizards not ruling battle (or out of battle) efficiency with an iron fist causes the patient to form a rash (or was that the Gelatinous Cube exposure?)


I can honestly say Chris wasn't thinking about Mittens so much as just speeding things along so we can get to the RP. I can also vouch for Chris liking wizard, not because "OMG I just nuked everyone for a million damage!" (although nukes do feel nice), but because he likes being able to roll more than once on his turn. Chris and I have oft been narrowing down what it is we enjoy about tabletop gaming in general.

Also, a reminder:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw

Chris and I are both strongly against such a scenario. When one person starts losing out on fun, everyone does (unless someone is a jerk). And if they are having less fun because someone else is an Angel Summoner, then things need to be addressed.

Example 1:
Matt and Daniel are good at breaking tabletop games. When their characters got so powerful that Chris literally couldn't have enemies hit them anymore, the enemies had to be scaled up. Which meant those of us who weren't broken started becoming inept. So we all sat down and decided together to change the entire system (we switched to d20). While Matt and Dan have once again broken the game, it's not as bad as how they broke D6 system. They are the designated "melee" guys while the rest of us do the other stuff (control, ranged, etc).

Example 2:
Olympus campaign; May! May became so powerful, I felt guilty. So I addressed the group about it and made sure nobody was feeling overshadowed. If they were, I would have rebuilt the character to be a toned-down version. Thankfully, everyone was just fine and had plenty of fun. But I remember Chris having a character so powerful and he did the same thing.

So no. His suggestions for house rules have little to do with personal gain and everything to do with "if this annoys me, maybe it annoys Tim or Joe?"

Hopefully, you'll take my word for it, but Chris and I actually do not have fun when Joe starts not having fun.
Mittens
GM, 1022 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sat 11 Jan 2014
at 03:33
  • msg #338

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

What was wrong with d6 KOTOR was partially my fault.  I had attempted to fix a gaping hole in the game mechanic, and the fix worked too well.  Here's the gaping hole...

"The bandit shoots at you with his blaster pistol.  Rolling his Dex plus blaster skill to-hit...  3D+2D... 5D"  *dice sounds*  "OK he got a result of 20.  Now you roll your DEX plus dodge skill.  2D+2D."  *dice sounds*  "16.  So the bandit hits.  Now he rolls damage.  4D on a blaster pistol."  *dice sounds*  "15.  Now roll your strength plus your armor vs energy rating.  2D+1D"  *dice sounds*  "9.  That's a difference of 6.  You're wounded, taking a -1D to all rolls until healed.  And you lose your next turn."  (Byron at least house-ruled away the penalty when rolling STR for the next wound, but I HATE the lose-your-turn-for-getting-hit legit book rule.)

1 year later...

"The dark jedi swipes at you with his lightsaber.  He gets DEX plus lightsaber skill plus his Sense force skill.  3D+4D+3D"  *dice sounds*  "40 to-hit.  Now roll dodge skill plus DEX.  3D+5D"  *dice sounds*  "24.  The dark jedi hits you.  He's rolling 5D weapon plus 3D control damage dice.  Now roll your STR plus armor vs energy rating: 2D+1D.  His roll: 32.  Your roll: 6.  A difference of 26.  You're dead."

Lightsaber damage scales up over time as player and NPC jedi gain more skill in the Control force skill (strangely, no other weapon scales up), but armor to resist lightsaber damage does not.  It's like having the same HP at level 20 as you did at level 1.  I once made a character specifically for surviving lightsabers and he nearly died in 1 slice at high level.  It's only because Byron severely fudges the rules that players ever survive for more than a few fights.  d6 is simply unplayable over time if lightsabers are involved.

So I came up with the idea of allowing a skill players could invest in that they could add to their STR roll to resist damage.  And to keep players in the same ballpark, the min/maxers were not allowed to have more than 2D more "HP" than the PC with the fewest skill points invested in the damage resist skill.  This way I wouldn't have to make monsters deadly to some players just to be a slight challenge to others.

My mistake was allowing monsters the same skill.  The min/maxers damage went up and up and up, and so did the monster soak-damage skill.  But the damage of non min-maxers like Beth unsurprisingly remained the same over time.  I made monster dodge plenty low so they'd hit, but...  They just couldn't punch through the damage resist.  There was a fight where Mits, Beth, and Callista may as well not have even been present at all.

DnD 3.5 sadly...  Raichel is a level 1 paladin / standard monk.  6-9 damage per punch, and she gets 2.  Min/Maxer's char is a level 1 psyonic warrior / draconic fist decisive strike monk.  Gets 1 punch instead of 2.  But dished out 34 damage on a non-crit punch.  And we later find out he forgot to add in his doubled STR mod he was supposed to.  Fortunately, the module was sending 6 HP monsters at the players, so Raichel IC looked like she was contributing just as much.  So on the one hand, it's pretty bad when there's such a severe damage disparity at level 1.  On the other, 3.5 is monster HP tends to be so low that not many of them will survive a single standard PC hit, let alone an extremely min/maxed one.  So I'm not expecting to have to do anything to make fights fun and seem fair.
This message was last edited by the GM at 04:14, Sat 11 Jan 2014.
Kyle
player, 161 posts
Crossbow of SCIENCE...
Or MAGIC? I always forget
Tue 14 Jan 2014
at 08:51
  • msg #339

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

  I'm going to try to keep this from being too rambly, and open up with You guys were right about Blasts.  Cause this has been a sensitive mechanics subject to my mindset and I've been TOO paranoid about explosion mechanics lately, but shouldn't let that bias me from WHY I look at rules as close as I do.  Consistency/avoiding gotcha facedesk moments in the middle of things.  On top of the incompatible rules between burst and blast despite them both being "explosions" not helping clarity.

  Bursts in 4th ed:  Straight up stated you can't screw around with where the explosion spreads.
 
quote:
A burst starts in an origin square and extends in all directions to a specified number of squares from the origin square.

For example, the cleric power flame strike is a burst 2 within 10 squares of you, which means the power originates in a square up to 10 squares away from you and affects the origin square and every square within 2 squares of it (a 5-square-by-5-square area).


  Blasts in 4th ed: I've been biased by my own research at times into 'DOES it work this way?' only ever showing anything but what was implied by the rulebook pictures as hopeful munchkin posting (such as linked last night 'Why CANT I use my Blast as a Burst that still doesn't hurt myself, huh!?').

  But the more I stare at the wording, and more importantly picture the resulting placement of the blasts, It starts to makes sense you can slide the square around your character, anywhere as long as it is a Square of the correct size and adjacent to your character.  It works for PC's, it works for Dragons, and it works for how "Diagonal" blasts and weird things like Blast 2 work.

  Sum Up:  Blasts like Burning Hands can slide around you (the origin square).  Bursts like Scorching Burst can NOT slide around, and have to spread from center.  Both things being "Explosions" adds to mental confusion of rules.
This message was last edited by the player at 08:57, Tue 14 Jan 2014.
Mittens
GM, 1034 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Tue 14 Jan 2014
at 14:57
  • msg #340

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Gale:
Pink>"Glad we're all on the same page."</Pink>

:)

I remember mention of "Makes no sense" example given of an explosion bending in a strange direction just 'cause rules wording allowing it.  Upon thinking about it, I was going to try and argue from "in the real world, you can shoot in any of the 360 degree directions but more" the realized...  Bizzarro square world where you cannot walk in any direction, you are limited to 9 directions.  Further thought realized: previous editions only allowed blasting in 9 directions.  Was 4th intentionally trying to emulate RL a little more in increasing the number of directions you could breathe fire?  Or was the wording just an oversight?  Ah well.  I'm sure that by the time I wake up Joe will have found the erratta / earlier thread we came to a mutual agreement I've forgotten / WotC FAQ that clarifies RAI / whatever else will decide this once and for all.
Kyle
player, 162 posts
Crossbow of SCIENCE...
Or MAGIC? I always forget
Tue 14 Jan 2014
at 17:07
  • msg #341

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

I suspect for targeting/where the box goes purposes, it's what I confirmed and realized last post.  Confirmed PHB1 And Compendium wording Bursts are always an even spread out from the target center.  Is it a burst 1? spreads 1 tile away from the origin in each direction.  Is it a burst 2? see earlier quote from rules.  Burst is the easy one.

Blast wise, biases from hearing munchkins and implied usage in rulebook finally set aside, being able to slide the Blast Box around you just makes too much sense and fits every legal usage of it in weird situations to not be right.  Doing it that way lines up with every straight up rulebook example or weird positioning or tile sizes.  It makes too much sense to be wrong when looked at all by itself, with no crazed 'also this' rules mangling distracting you.

EDIT: Such as, taking 'but it doesn't say I CANT.  You worded it too vaguely to tell me no!' to the degree of firing a blast backwards through yourself and saying 'I'm immune lol!' is too crazy.  But I'm sure we are all on the same page that a blast is supposed to always go start and go "outwards" from the direction you want to aim.

Traditional Burst "I aim the fireball at my feet, oh god this will hurt" still works just fine.

Mittens:
Gale:
"Glad we're all on the same page."

:)
...
Was 4th intentionally trying to emulate RL a little more in increasing the number of directions you could breathe fire?  Or was the wording just an oversight?  Ah well.  I'm sure that by the time I wake up Joe will have found the erratta / earlier thread we came to a mutual agreement I've forgotten / WotC FAQ that clarifies RAI / whatever else will decide this once and for all.


I'm assuming it is a combo case of 90% "world is made of TILES", and 10% the Errata department being too busy dealing with fixing ridiculous Rules As Written munchkin examples, to clarify "Yes you CAN do that" on things that are legal in the first place when it comes to player actions, and not caring if somebody rules mangles something to cheat in the monster's favor.

I mean, they had to errata "Sneak Attack/Quary damage/Curse damage doesn't work on a miss you jackass, stop saying 'but you didn't specifically word it that way!'".  My personal favorite guilty pleasure of "doesn't say no" remains unfixed, while they had to errata something even MORE munchkin like with that power.

Still slightly hazy (Though Mittens's shot would 100% legally hit the kobolds no questions asked from where she is) is how Bursts and Blasts would spread "around" objects.  Technically they don't.  It's basically a single sentence rule, "For a target to be affected by a close/area attack, there must be line of effect from the origin square to the target.".

If there is something completely in the way, the explosion stops there and doesn't continue.  This is simple in most cases, but gets complicated the more crowed with objects and cover an area or hallway is.   A Blast 5 fired head on down a hallway won't make a 90 degree turn around corners along the way.  A Burst 5 would work like Bomberman if you landed it at a hall intersection, or only blow up the stretch of hallway it is in if farther away.  At most lick the edges of the intersections if landed a tile away from the turn.

Then you get those maps which have pillars everywhere and I want to cry trying to work out how a blast or burst explosion spreads without being able to draw on a visual aid.

As for why I'm awake after a few hours, Today's insomnia brought to you by I'll tell you what ****** up dream later.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:22, Tue 14 Jan 2014.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 392 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Wed 5 Feb 2014
at 07:24
  • msg #342

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

  So, I noticed some Feats, and Maverick (and possibly Rhagar, still trying to work out long term goals beyond Dex/Cha Rogue) came to mind.

 Master Of The Fist [Multiclass Monk] Dragon Mag 404:  13 STR, or 13 Dex.  You gain training in Athletics Or Acrobatics.  You also gain the Monk's Unarmed Combatant Feature (+3 1d8 unarmed), and proficiency with Ki Focus.

  Boring so far.

Improved Monk Unarmed Strike: Monk, Unarmed Combatant feature.   Your Monk Unarmed Strike dice become 1d10 instead of 1d8.

  Well, that's nice.  But how will this help Maveri-

Piercing Palm:  Requires Monk, Rogue, Sneak Attack class feature, Unarmed Combatant class feature. (So, just the Master Of The Fist multiclass).
Benefit:  Your Monk Unarmed strike is now allowed to be used for Sneak attack and Rogue Class and Paragon Powers that require a light blade.

  Hello, +3 Prof 1d10 Rogue attacks, before adding any Sneak dice.  With your BARE HANDS.
This message was last edited by the GM at 07:28, Wed 05 Feb 2014.
Maverick
player, 328 posts
Master of Stealth
Holder of Grudges
Thu 6 Feb 2014
at 02:13
  • msg #343

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

.......this, I like. >:D
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 395 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Thu 13 Feb 2014
at 19:59
  • msg #344

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Heeeeey, more "Maverick came to mind when I was looking at Rogue Feats".

Mark Of Shadow [Dragonmark]: personal perks: Whenever you make an attack while hidden and miss every target, you Stay Hidden.  Whenever you make an attack while Invisible and miss every target, you stay invisible.

Ritual Perks: "You can master and perform rituals in the deception and scrying categories and the Knock, Masking Shroud, Secret Page, and Shadow Walk rituals as if you had the Ritual Caster feat."

EDIT:  also, Epic Dragon Magazine 373 feat,  Untracable.

"You gain a +5 bonus to Stealth checks against creatures that cannot see you, such as while you are invisible or in a totally obscured space, or the creature is blind. You don’t receive this bonus against creatures that do not rely on sight to detect enemies. Additionally, Scrying rituals cannot detect you unless you want them to."

Mildly related, ugh can't find any significant perks or substitution methods to detect traps more easily (unless you are a dwarf rogue).  You and Chris already know my outlook on the whole "Class that never raises Wisdom needs to make as high or higher Wisdom skill check to detect traps, often before they are allowed to disarm them".
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:11, Thu 13 Feb 2014.
Larry Lumphammer
player, 1 post
Mon 17 Feb 2014
at 11:02
  • msg #345

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Larry Lumphammer may only have an 8 Intelligence, but he's smart enough to recognize the huge savings at Marty's Maul Mall&trade#

Wondering why your Offense Fighter Package has so little to it?  Is that 50 Gold pricetag on that Greatsword leaving your gold sack a lint sack?  Well come on down to Marty's Maul Mall&trade# and we'll set you up with a real bargain!  40 gold? Too high!  25 Gold? Too high!  You can get a brand new Marty's Maul (Patent Pending) for the low low price of 10 Gold!  It Costs less, Weighs less, and does the same damage*!

*Mauls do Bludgeon instead of slashing.  But that's okay, the reintroduction of Damage types probably means Skeletons resist everything but Blunt or something.

So yeah, I got the test sheet for 5E fighter up.  It is a good thing you are allowed to hand pick 175 GP worth of gear instead of taking a BG and Class bundle (Offense fighter bundle leaves you with 1 GP, compared to 39 and 25 on the other two).  The Greatsword is the most expensive weapon on the whole list, and hand axes are 5 GP for same damage and less throw range compared to the 5 SILVER Javelins the other fighter bundles get.


And now, "This will catch 4th Ed (And even 3rd/Pathfinder) Players off guard" Trivia!  These are just ones I happened to skim across.

Adventurer's kit has no pouches.  On that note, large Containers in 5e hold vastly less than 4th (Backpacks. Unlisted in 4th vs 30 pound.  Sacks, 100 pounds in 4th vs 30 pounds)

Climber's Kits provide no bonus, unless you are tool proficient in them.  They also do not come with a grappling hook (no listed description for what those do anyway), or a hammer (I guess you have to drive the pitons into stone with your bare hands).

There is a cool sounding item described past Healer's Kit.  The Herbalism Kit.  Tool Proficiency with it allows you to add prof bonus to herbalist stuff, and make HALF PRICE Potion's Of Healing (25 GP, instead of 50 GP).  This item, of course, is not on the price listing at all.  Nor do any of the example Backgrounds have tool proficiency in it.

If using Tile based movement, Diagonal movement costs 2 tiles.

To Charge (which is only a normal attack), you must be at least 10 feet away... But are only allowed to move up to half your speed for the charge.

For Death Saves, you need THREE SUCCESSES to stabilize.  Rolling a 1 counts as two failures. Being hit while dying applies a Death Failure. Rolling a 20 gives you 1 HP.

Short Rests are ONE HOUR.

Monks must spend Ki points to use Flurry Of Blows.  Flurry is an Unarmed Only extra attack (1d6 DMG lv 1-7, 1d8 DMG lv 8+).  Fighter, Rangers, And Paladins have a Two Weapon Fighting Style option that let's them make two attacks with no penalties just because, for the same damage.

At level 5, Fighters, Rangers, And Paladins just straight up get an extra attack.  At level 5, Monk can now use Stunning Blow... Which triggers on a critical hit only, and still has a save throw.

Monk's Deflect Missile, if you take that path, now only reduces 1d10+DEX DMG.  But you can spend a Ki point to reduce it by another 1d10! wow!

At level 1, a Ranger has... A bonus to tracking.  That's it.

And finally.... Fighters first Path says they get "Improved Combat superiority" at level 15... There are no descriptions or rules for such a thing.  Sure, Wizards are ruled for functional upgrades all the way through level 20, but pfft, why should we explain what that Fighter ability does?

That path is lame compared to the "Crit on a 19 or 18, learn second style" path anyways.  Fighters can get basically Ki points, which allowed them to do tricks like "Try to knock that ogre prone with your attack".

But do to so, you have to beat the Ogre's Strength Mod... By rolling an unmodified 1d6.  Hey what does a STR of 20 give again? +5?  Oh.
This message was last edited by the player at 11:11, Mon 17 Feb 2014.
Kevin
player, 53 posts
Tue 18 Feb 2014
at 14:50
  • msg #346

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

That's why I made home rules that mostly come from my standpoint as a DM:  I usually assume that my players know 4ED and are making the transition.  I then modify some of the rules to make them more familiar to 4ED (and maybe 3.5ED) players.  An extensive, but not complete, list of my Home Rules follows:

* Adventurer's kits can include a belt pouch if needed, or it comes included with the clothes the character has on.  Likewise, I can allow hammers and grappling Hooks to be included in the climber's kits.  You can still use them (or any kit for that matter) proficient or no, but you need the proficiency to add the bonus. (And Wizards has got to add prices for some of the kits, like Herbalism)

* Oh, by the way, if you're making a character from scratch, you get a free Adventurers Kit along with your 175 GP

* I usually ask players to divide their movement by 5 to show how many tile squares their speed are.  (Since I almost always use tiles)

* 8-Way:  You can move in all eight directions--even diagonally--with just 1 movement each.  It only costs an extra point of movement if you need to go over something, like a chair or a table or difficult terrain.  You can cut around soft corners, but not hard.

* Other movements I'll allow:  Splitting their move (I move 3 squares, attack, and move the other 3), Disengage (requires Standard Action), and the "4th Edition Shift," which takes your whole move to just shift 1.  You can use your full move for a charge, like in fourth edition.  But then again, so do my zombies.  And in my campaign world, the zombies are the fast variety.

* Arcade Flanking: I saw this in "Heroes of Neverwinter" and adapted it into my play; you do not need to be at opposite sides to be flanking.

* Instead of dying because of failing your death save, you get to roll a special Injury Die (a d12 with body parts instead of numbers) to show where you're injured.  They could either be minor inconvience or total debilitating, and they have to role play getting that character healed.  Usually at the nearest shrine and at arm-and-a-leg prices.

* Oh yeah, healing a guy that's dying?  Healing starts at Zero.  You still keep your fails until your next short rest.  (Which can still be five to fifteen minutes, but longer if need be.)

* And another thing:  The Chunky Salsa Rule is in effect. "Any situation that would reduce a character's head to the consistency of chunky salsa dip is fatal, the saving throw is only for the others to have something to bury."

* Hit Dice as Healing Surges.  During any short rest, you can spend a Hit Dice just like a Healing Surge.
Mittens
GM, 1105 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Tue 18 Feb 2014
at 15:54
  • msg #347

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

For the most part your house rules seem sane.  I find it sad how much work DMs have to put into patching game systems so that they're playable at all, but this is nothing new.

Kevin:
* Hit Dice as Healing Surges.  During any short rest, you can spend a Hit Dice just like a Healing Surge.


Not quite sure how this works.  Let's suppose I have a 1st level barbarian with 13 max HP.  12 from his die, 1 from CON mod.  Suppose my barbarian is reduced to 3 HP.  During a short rest, he spends his one and only hit die to heal up.  Which leaves him at... 1 HP?  Because at 0 hit die he would have only his CON mod for figuring his max?  Or...  7 HP?  Because 1/4 of 13 is 4 and 4+3=7?  Or....  13 HP?  Because 12 is the value of his first Hit die?  Or...  4 HP?  Because he rolled a d12 and got a 1?

Me, Tim, and Joe tend to strongly dislike the "The Chunky Salsa Rule."  I'll spare you an extended rant and sum it up with, "it can turn a game that was supposed to be fun into the opposite of fun."  My question is: How much have you been running games under this rule?  How often has it come up in this time?  If the answer is "never" then I think I can safely play a character I love.  If not, I'll have to whip up a joke character that I don't really care about.  In my DMing experience, it has come up only once that I can remember, and only because the player reeeeally wanted his character to die an epic death.
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:38, Tue 18 Feb 2014.
Timothius
GM, 348 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Tue 18 Feb 2014
at 16:53
  • msg #348

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Mittens:
Not quite sure how this works.  Let's suppose I have a 1st level barbarian with 13 max HP.  12 from his die, 1 from CON mod.  Suppose my barbarian is reduced to 3 HP.  During a short rest, he spends his one and only hit die to heal up.  Which leaves him at... 1 HP?  Because at 0 hit die he would have only his CON mod for figuring his max?  Or...  7 HP?  Because 1/4 of 13 is 4 and 4+3=7?  Or....  13 HP?  Because 12 is the value of his first Hit die?  Or...  4 HP?  Because he rolled a d12 and got a 1?


I'm confused also. Need more input on how the HD-for-healing works. :)

Mittens:
Me, Tim, and Kevin Joe(Laserface) tend to strongly dislike the "The Chunky Salsa Rule."  I'll spare you an extended rant and sum it up with, "it can turn a game that was supposed to be fun into the opposite of fun."  My question is: How much have you been running games under this rule?  How often has it come up in this time?  If the answer is "never" then I think I can safely play a character I love.  If not, I'll have to whip up a joke character that I don't really care about.  In my DMing experience, it has come up only once that I can remember, and only because the player reeeeally wanted his character to die an epic death.


Before my rant begins, let me say this: I'm not harping on you or your rule. Just helping you understand where the three of us are coming from.

To clarify, it's not so much that we dislike the realism of "his head asplode, so he can't be brought back", so much as it's that we dislike dying. Granted, I've run a game where Mittens was literally unrecognizable pile of goo that a gnoll wasted his turns stabbing repeatedly, but a high priest of the water god replaced all her organs by putting water in her and the water solidified into organs.

It's more that Chris, Joe and I do not enjoy losing a character we're attached to. Every producer knows this. When you have a series (Let's use the old 80's Transformers for example) and you kill off a character your audience has come to love, your ratings become horrible and you get angry phonecalls from moms who say their child locked themselves in their room for a week, starving themselves. When you have a videogame RPG like Final Fantasy 7 and kill off Aerith, people desperately want her back to the point of finding cheats and codes to get her back. Oh, sure, those two examples wound up extremely famous because of this, and both examples are of really fantastic things from the entertainment biz, but ask any FFVII fan "What if I told you there was a way to keep Aerith from dying?" chances are you might not even finish the sentence before they ask "HOW?! TELL ME!!!"

The biggest defense of dying rules I've heard is "you need death to feel danger". Not true. How many movies have you watched, forgotten that the main character is in no danger of dying, and wound up in just as much suspense as if he was in danger of dying? It's the same for Chris, Joe and I. Our characters freak out (and so do we) when close to death, even though we the players know better. Our feelings "lie" to us and we are left with the same feeling we would have watching a good movie. Now... knowing they actually could die is enough to deter us to the point of "well... my character is not following plot-hook-A or B or C" because we know they'll die.

Now all that said, I realize D&D is a different game. But so too are its players different. Chris, Joe and I happen to be of the "need to know our characters are going to last through the adventure" type. I've had a character die before and felt sick to my stomach, even though I knew I could just play them again elsewhere.

I repeat; I'm not ragging on you or your rule. Just explaining that Chris, Joe and I are the kind that wouldn't have fun with any death involved (although I personally am cool with it if there is promise of resurrection)
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 396 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Wed 19 Feb 2014
at 00:57
  • msg #349

Re: OOC Part Deux: The Sequel.

Hit Dice being called Hit Dice is a case of "Confusing KEYWORDS for the sake of Nostalgia".  Hit Dice, airquotes, are ONLY your healing toy.

It means you roll your hitpoints recovery.  You get as many "Hit Dice" as your level.  A level 1 fighter for example, has One, 1d10 hit dice.  A Mage, has 1d6).  A fighter who had 3 HP left, who rolled 1+3 CON, now has 7 HP.

During a short rest you roll as many of your remaining hit dice as you want, and that roll+CON Mod, is how many hitpoints you get back.

I'm going back out to shovel more so Dad can get into the house.  I still need a name, but got a High Elf wizard in the works.
FACT: Magic Missile is NOT an at-will option (maybe it was in a prior version of playtest?).  But Ray of frost, Chill Touch, and Shocking Grasp are Cantrips, with no component cost.  Meanwhile, LIGHT cantrip has a component cost.

Also, High Elf gets an extra Cantrip (that runs off INT).


No time for a proper ramble right now, but Tim sums it up pretty well.  I'm going to poke fun at 5e being different, but for the most part I'm just poking fun because I know no matter WHAT system it is, I can trust you guys.  Later on I'm sure as hell gonna help highlight things like "Nah, take a 10 GP same damage, can hurt skeletons Maul instead of a 50 GP Greatsword", or that Sleep Spell is super nerfed and makes 4th E version look like a super weapon.

Funniest part about our not wanting character death so far in 4th Ed. So far, we have legitimately avoided death in combat (but there were plenty close calls, the worst once of course involving ongoing damage lingering well past a battle.  And the time Chris DID want to die, and did everything he could to have Adam die dramatically in battle?

NOPE.  Dice, circumstances, and the efforts of everyone else kept them alive.  Barely, but alive.
Mittens
GM, 1109 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Wed 26 Feb 2014
at 21:35
  • msg #350

Important Kingdom building points

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kqjx?Kingdom-Building

"Anything counts as adjacent; left, right, above, below, diagonal, or even across streets.

But you can't "double duty" a house. Once it's used as a prerequisite for another building, it can't serve as a prerequisite for a second building."


    Is there a limit on the number of districts you can have in a city?

Not really. A GM can certainly limit the number of districts a party puts in a single city if he wants, but multiple districts would be the only way you'd ever be able to model a really BIG city, after all. A city the size of Westcrown would take, IIRC, nearly 30 city grid districts.

Of course, your kingdom needs to be able to AFFORD all of those districts!


     I read somewhere that some rules for hiring low-level adventurers to take care of problems around the nation were cut for space. Any chance we might see those rules here?

Sure! During the event phase, you can...

Hiring Adventurers: By hiring adventurers, the PCs can effectively purchase one time bonuses to any Economy, Loyalty, or Stability checks made as a result of a kingdom event. A group of low-level adventurers (level 1–2) grants a +2 bonus on the check but costs 4 BP. A group of mid-level adventurers (level 3–5) grants a +5 bonus on the check but costs 8 BP. A group of high-level adventurers (level 6 or higher, but never higher than the PCs’ Average Party Level) grants a +10 bonus on the check but costs 16 BP.


     2) exotic craftman don't have an economy bonus, isn't it a typo ?

Yup; typo. Exotic craftsman should grant: 1 minor item, +1 Economy, +1 Stability.


     If you have a magic item slot open, and roll a 3rd level potion for the random item. It is worth 750 gp. In the Income Phase, it says that items that cost greater than 4000 gp can be attempted to be sold off.

    As written, there isn't anything to cover selling items of a lesser value - other than the PCs buying it up to open the slot.

Ah. Yes. Items that cost less than 4,000 can't be sold off. It's just too cheap to really have much of an impact on your national economy to make a difference; it'd be like the US government selling a single TV to try to make a dent in the deficit. Doesn't really help. Only selling items that are worth 4,000 gp or more can help bolster your kingdom's treasury.

If you have a low-cost magic item that's "clogging" a magic item slot, and you want to get rid of it but no PC wants to buy it, you can "sell" it during the Income phase by making the Economy check; if you're successful, the kingdom's treasury doesn't increase but you do open up the item slot.

Of course, if you prefer to just ignore the 4,000 gp limit, that's fine too. The system can bear that kind of hand-waving, I suspect. ;-)


*Glances at bottom of page*

Page 1 of  980.

980?!  Good greif!  I'm just going to go with the stuff I've found so far and leave it at that.  Jeez.  And yes, I'm going to hand-wave "minor magic item" will always be a non-specific item worth at least 4k.  I don't need the hassle of rolling specific items any more than players need the hassle of selling off minor items with no benefit.

Also, Tim found this handy little chart:
https://kamedon-kingmaker.obsi.../wikis/building-tree
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:37, Wed 26 Feb 2014.
Matt
player, 547 posts
I am two things.
A Fighter, and a Fighter
Sat 15 Mar 2014
at 05:59
  • msg #351

Re: Important Kingdom building points

  Doing some future proofing checks for shopping on Matt (As in, what can I afford at Level 11, if I upgrade my Weapon/Armor/Neck to +3 at LV 11).   As the budget opens up at higher levels, a pile of miscellaneous low level items becomes much more doable.  No cheap shield since even if builder slots it,  Magic shields are "Arm Slot" and I like my Bracers Of Might Striking I've had for ages (+2 DMG to melee basic).

  New Toys For Matt:
Flicker's Of Faith (lv 4 Alternative): +1 to Surge TOTAL.  Day Trigger; if dropped to less than 1 HP "But do not die" (So something that flat out annihilates you doesn't trigger), roll 1d6.  3 or more = Not KO, heal Surge+1d6 worth of HP.

Moradin's Blessing Of Iron (Lv 3 Alt): Reduce PUSH Only by 2. If an enemy pulls me next to them, I can make an AoO against them.  Day Interrupt: I take damage.  reduce damage by 5.

Mental Block (Lv 4 Alt): 5 Psychic resist. +2 ITEM vs Fear and Charm saves.  Day "No action". make a save throw against one fear or charm effect (even if it's not a save vs).  save ends effect.

(Chris the Invoker Lover, read this) Pelor's Sun Blessing (Lv 4 Alt):  If you deal any damage to a target that is vulnerable to radiant, deal +WIS or +CON extra Damage.  Minor;at-will: Turn on/off bright light 5.    Day minor: an ally within 5 can spend a heal surge, and that ally gains +1 Item to save throws until end of encounter.

  That's what I can afford to add on TOP of my current gear, Right NOW at level 7, while still being able to keep it at level 11 when I upgrade my Main Three Items.

I can't tell if this is awesome or getting out of hand since including Crimson Determination that's like, 5 alternative reward items already.   Even if what I'm picking still "thematically" fits a Manly Blacksmith with a longrunning habit of Undead Smashing.


(Am eying "Fading One", lv 3, for later.  +5 to Jumping and considers you to always have a running start.  Also, when you spend an AP, You can fly speed until end of turn.)

EDIT:  Unrelated to Matt.  I just realized you can't make Wands of "Insert Arcane Class Encounter Power Here", for Level 27 Encounter attacks (or 26 Utilities). Unless you want to math out how much a level 33 Item costs.  Since the chart ends at Lv 28 Wand, for Level 22(Utility)/23 Arcane class that can use wands powers.

For reference, a wand of Level 3 Wizard Encounter, would be a Lv 8 item.

Still, for Kyle, this "Oh yeah, ALTERNATIVES!" will give me something to spend my cash on as levels go by (aside from a possible expensive wand habit).  Though some preliminary checks show that my "Airquotes" Low effort shopping, doesn't explode into extra toys until level 7.

Still,  Crimson Determination, and a Charm wand aren't to bad for extras.
This message was last edited by the player at 07:38, Sat 15 Mar 2014.
Mittens
GM, 1118 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sat 15 Mar 2014
at 15:06
  • msg #352

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Looking at ginsu mittens and ascention team as a whole, what our team needs more than anything is a healer.  But I don't like playing healer.  Already have given up 2 feat slots to have 1 heal and Cherub off-tank.  Looking at giving up another feat slot to have another heal power that's also an attack.  Spring Renewal strike.

If tim took MC shaman, he could have yet another character to play for each time he did so.  One who is invincible.  Hint wink.

I'm not even sure i want to stick with 2-blade ranger with tens.  it's fun, but already having fun with it with kitau.  what i do know is i don't like playing the healer.
Mittens
GM, 1119 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Tue 18 Mar 2014
at 02:21
  • msg #353

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Lightbulb!  Healing potions!  Duh!
Monster Intern
player, 104 posts
Monster Party!
Monster Prices!
Thu 20 Mar 2014
at 01:08
  • msg #354

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Pileus HelmLevel 6+ Uncommon

This helmet is made of a tough, fibrous material shaped like a mushroom cap, and it smells of soil.
Lvl 6 1,800 gp Lvl 26 1,125,000 gp
Lvl 16 45,000 gp

Head Slot
Properties

    You gain telepathy 5. You can use the telepathy to speak with any eligible creatures in range, broadcasting your message to multiple recipients.
    You gain resist 5 necrotic and resist 5 poison, and a +2 item bonus to saving throws against necrotic or poison effects.
        Level 16: Resist 10, and a +4 item bonus.
        Level 26: Resist 15, and a +6 item bonus.
Mittens
GM, 1121 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Thu 20 Mar 2014
at 01:52
  • msg #355

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Nice!  Though I wonder what the history of the flavor text is.  The RL version doesn't have any connection to telepathy, poison, mushrooms, etc...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pileus_%28hat%29
Matt
player, 550 posts
I am two things.
A Fighter, and a Fighter
Thu 20 Mar 2014
at 02:32
  • msg #356

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Mittens:
Nice!  Though I wonder what the history of the flavor text is.  The RL version doesn't have any connection to telepathy, poison, mushrooms, etc...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pileus_%28hat%29

After about two seconds seeing the images in that link?  My answer.

Smurfs.
Mittens
GM, 1124 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Wed 26 Mar 2014
at 21:28
  • msg #357

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Mittens:
House Rules for Mittens' Dungeon.

Fighter Combat Challenge
Due to the level of confusion and how not-broken house-ruling this feature is, the Combat Superiority and Combat Challenge features are now one and the same. All of it is AoO. (Originally, a fighter can not stop a shift. House rule allows that they can). NOTE: With this change, things like Weapon Master's Strike's Spear or Polearm feature become redundant. (Spear or Polearm: Until the end of your next turn, the target provokes opportunity attacks from you when it shifts.) So in place of any feat or power that used to have shifts provoke AoO, you can instead shift them to another square adjacent to you.


Revisiting this because of May's funneling flurry in SoW marking 2 foes, one of whom has already provoked an attack from her.

Me: "On the bright side, bat can't move thanks to May's marking it.  Or at least, it's dangerous for it to try and move."
Tim: "But May's already attacked the Hell Hound."

*Looks up Fighter Combat Challenge feature and errata.  Looks up houserule.*

There.  Because we houseruled that Combat Challenge is an opportunity action, not an immediate action, May can try to stop the bat when it tries to shift.  I did a little digging and apparently while the Essentials defender fighter, AKA the Knight, can't stop monsters within its aura, at best slowing them depending on stance, it can at least opportunity attack all those adjacent to it who shift.  So under the right circumstances, a first level knight could potentially get 8 attacks against 8 monsters adjacent to it before its turn comes up without ever having marked them.
Matt
player, 553 posts
I am two things.
A Fighter, and a Fighter
Wed 26 Mar 2014
at 22:06
  • msg #358

Re: Important Kingdom building points

  Yeah, AoO's can work on everyone once just fine.  AoO's have always been able to attack any given target once during a turn phase.  Short version of our house rule was going "Ugh tracking multiple variables and To-Hit Rolls or even Damage Rolls depending on... Wait, how did this enemy piss us off again?" and crossing out "Interrupt" on Combat Challenge (The power), and writing in AoO so it's always the same and we don't have to stop combat to reference a flow chart every time Fighter might be able to hit something.

  Matt for example would have to alter his To-Hit and/or Damage numbers depending on the situation, so I'd need like, at least three, possibly four different listings of "Melee Basic, Kinda".  Instead of just going "Okay, this is Melee Basic, and this is AoO".

   Fun Fact: Originally part of my headache regarding Combat Challenge: The Class Feature Vs Combat Challenge: The Power, was how brain melting feat and class feature triggers could be, and this was back when you couldn't take Agility instead of Superiority.  "Okay, wait.  Did this feat give me a bonus to AoO 'Enemy moved or did ranged', or a bonus to 'marked target shifts or attacks thing'  Or a bonus to Any Marked Target because identical names of power and class feature MY BRAIN IS LEAKING OUT MY NOSE!?"

Okay...   Okay... RaW Combat Challenge is the Class Feature ability to mark things... It is ALSO an Interrupt Power sharing the same name, which is my ability to attack marked targets who shift or attack someone else.  Yeah that's not confusing AT ALL NUMBERS BUISINESS UNIKITTY ANGRY.

  So we all basically said "Screw This".  because of how much of a headache and mess tracking all the different variables at any given time and just said "Fighter just hits things, okay!?".

EDIT: Oh right, more confusion is caused because there are TWO Combat Challenges!  It is the name of your class feature, AND the name of the Interrupt power, said power not showing up in compendium class listing if you are checking that in a hurry instead of digging out the books.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:16, Wed 26 Mar 2014.
Matt
player, 560 posts
I am two things.
A Fighter, and a Fighter
Mon 12 May 2014
at 03:53
  • msg #359

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Keyleth came to mind.

Elf Subtype perks.

Wild Elf (from Neverwinter) options include...

Trade Elven Accuracy (Encounter reroll attack take second), for Subtle Step (Encounter shift your speed as a move action).
Keyleth
NPC, 1 post
Gold Medalist Candidate
Nobody escapes
Mon 12 May 2014
at 04:06
  • msg #360

Re: Important Kingdom building points

That works, actually. Thanks!
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 417 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Wed 30 Jul 2014
at 00:02
  • msg #361

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Oh dear.  Site overhaul.  I had to find a thread posted by someone saying where they stashed all the 4th ed stuff (No links to the 4th ed stuff that I can see anywhere on the new site setup).

http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/tools.aspx


My cynical assumption is that they will probably stop supporting the 4th ed character builder once Next is properly released, or soon after.  I know you guys go without the new builder for putting your sheets together, but I've been spoiled maaaaan.

EDIT: Supposedly, there was some old promise they'd keep tool support.  The links from the new site are nest buried as "New Site -> Product Info -> Tabletop Games -> Digital Tools"

I can understand not having 4th ed being the first thing you see on the new site, but that's a bit Vague if you are looking for old stuff. Once you actually go to that link it consists of "Project: Morningstar"  which is basically "We really want to make digital tabletop this time guys we wear".  And "4th edition legacy tools".

So at least of the only two giant picture links, 4th ed is the only thing they have that works.
This message was last edited by the GM at 00:13, Wed 30 July 2014.
Mittens
GM, 1138 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Wed 30 Jul 2014
at 02:46
  • msg #362

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Dohs.  If they ever do make a virtual tabletop, I might have to take another look at 5e.  I hear the basic rules are available for free.
Mittens
GM, 1140 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Fri 8 Aug 2014
at 00:54
  • msg #363

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Note to self.  Look up if all ranged powers provoke AoO.  (Why else would heal powers be close burst, 1 target?)
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 418 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Fri 8 Aug 2014
at 01:07
  • msg #364

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Mittens:
Note to self.  Look up if all ranged powers provoke AoO.  (Why else would heal powers be close burst, 1 target?)

I think even if it's wrong, my brain has been treating this as "Ranged ATTACK powers" despite that of late.  Which still follows niche things like "Warlord commands someone else to make a basic attack" because those are still attack powers.

I may have deserved an AoO or two by now from Kyle's summoning eyeball on that note.  Then again, last time I made sure the guy was BLIND (eating an AoO to do so) when I point blank Eyeball/Dancing weapon cast.

ALSO! Check in on star wars saga situation if you have not already.

EDIT: Yup.  It's ranged or area attack (not attack, my brain subconsciously wrote that) Powers, at all. Duuur.  Though this gives leeway to "I throw a potion to someone/throw a rope" stuff.

quote:
Ranged and Area Powers Provoke: If an enemy adjacent to you uses a ranged power or an area power, you can make an opportunity attack against that enemy.

This message was last edited by the GM at 01:13, Fri 08 Aug 2014.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 419 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Fri 5 Sep 2014
at 11:52
  • msg #365

Re: Important Kingdom building points

  I figure low odds this will be read unless you come by intending to post something yourself, but.

  You're both still basically super busy Friday nights, right?  If so, I may actually dust off my headset (literally did so, wed night) and join the growing crowd of people for "Oh God, why are we playing this when we hate these design decisions?  Oh right, it's the only thing with robots like this" Mechwarrior.

 You guys > Robots.  Even if the robot I plan on grabbing next is the one with THE MOST LASERS SLOTS IN THE GAME. Which... Isn't as good as it sounds for various factors I won't get into unless you ask.
Mittens
GM, 1196 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Fri 5 Sep 2014
at 22:43
  • msg #366

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Looking that way.  I'm trying to cut down on RL gaming because gas costs / family financial issues, but Friday is likely one that's going to remain untouched.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 420 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Fri 5 Sep 2014
at 23:56
  • msg #367

Re: Important Kingdom building points

  Ah yes, gas prices.  Since mom wants/demands its the Minivan that is used for driving her places, and my own social life is much more anemic than my Brothers, A year later I think I have filled my gas tank... Uh, five times tops counting tomorrow.
Mittens
GM, 1197 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sat 6 Sep 2014
at 08:40
  • msg #368

Re: Important Kingdom building points

sheesh.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 421 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Mon 8 Sep 2014
at 17:53
  • msg #369

Re: Important Kingdom building points

So suddenly, I remember that I probably can't remind Tim to "Get more paper for his clipboard and scan things" (also, make sure he has ink) because of the hub/wires/Tim can't have AIM right now situation.

So I'm posting that here instead while I go grab a pick up food order (and hope my cough/sneeze overload limits itself to causing nosebleeds for sources of 'oh dear I'm bleeding').
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:53, Mon 08 Sept 2014.
Matt
player, 636 posts
I am two things.
A Fighter, and a Fighter
Fri 12 Sep 2014
at 11:59
  • msg #370

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Tidbits about 5th edition wizards.

You can totally cast spells while wearing armor, you just need to be proficient in it (or you can't cast).

Boop I started as a level 1 fighter then immediately muitlclassed to wizard.  Platemail casting, sucker.
Mittens
GM, 1223 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Tue 23 Sep 2014
at 19:18
  • msg #371

Re: Important Kingdom building points

tim's turn in wrath! :)
Tark
player, 1 post
Sat 11 Oct 2014
at 00:39
  • msg #372

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Changes for Toothix LV 2.
HP: 12+8= 20.
Hit Dice: 1+1 = 2d10.
Class Feature: Action Surge unlocked.

Changes for Lucy Level 2.
HP: 9+6= 15
Hit Dice: 1+1= 2d8.
Class features: Channel Divinity unlocked.
Spell slots: 3 Level 1 slots (+1 from before).
Prepared spells: +1, 5 total.

Changes for Tark:
HP: 13+9= 22.
See above.
Forgotten Realms Narrator
Narrator, 3 posts
For the D&D 5e
Campaign Thread
Fri 14 Nov 2014
at 03:34
  • msg #373

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Just an update for things for the 5e campaign.

I've seen the updates for Lucy's character to level 3 and I noticed you have one more spell readied than you can have. (You have 7 listed, but with a Wisdom of 16 at lvl 3 you only can have 6 spells readied, but you can have any number of them being first or second level spells.) If your wanting to be lazy about it you might want to drop Zone of Truth as that isn't a spell that will see use every day, but one you can easily readied for days where your going to be dealing with people who may lie to you. i.e. politicians for example. Alternatively you can drop a few level one spells and have some more level two spells readied.

By the way, a reminder since in 5th edition they don't distinguish between focus and material components that for spells with costly components those components are NOT consumed with the casting of the spell, unless the spell lists the component being consumed like Continual Flame or Find Familiar for example then the components are not consumed and are focus items that are used with each casting like with Identify and it's 100gp pearl, the 1000gp focus for Scrying, and the two 50gp platinum rings for Warding Bond. (After seeing that I do find the leaving of the 3 platinum rings (50gp each) to be kind of ironic but the decision to leave them is a noble one. (Then again as nice as that spell is, it does split the damage which has its advantages and disadvantages.)

Also Toothix's character sheet is rather out of date (still listing lvl 1 human fighter.)

Finally, Tark has told me he is getting some adventuring gear, I know he can support the weight and can afford the gear unless it is some crazy amount, but I would like to see the list so the funds can be deducted fro the running totals in my character description. Additionally, if anyone else is purchasing stuff let me know so I can update the character description. Also update your character sheet as needed. (For example, Markus has spent most of his money on rare inks to add rituals to his book of shadows. But he still has two more rituals to add to the book of shadows so he temporarily still has some of the inks.)
This message was last edited by the player at 03:35, Fri 14 Nov 2014.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 422 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Fri 16 Jan 2015
at 01:04
  • msg #374

Re: Important Kingdom building points

If you care, somebody with a 6 minute video overview of the life and times of Transformer Universe from promises, beta launch reality, and shutdown.

http://channelawesome.com/side...ansformers-universe/

I loved the comparison to SMITE's cash purchases stuff, since I still have a soft spot for SMITE even though, like many multiplayer games, I've not touched it in probably a literal year now just because of RL.
Mittens
GM, 1243 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 2 Feb 2015
at 01:08
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 423 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Mon 2 Feb 2015
at 02:55
  • msg #376

Re: Important Kingdom building points


Are these meant for your TV or for computer use? Bro quick comment is that a lot of default sound cards are not build for 5.1 apparently.

He's also the one who set up our current sound system/recover/jungle of wires that is the sound system able to work with our TV and assorted consoles/VCR we still have for old B movies.

5.1 would obviously sound better, but you'd also have to deal with all the wires, for the two supposed to go behind us he's got em taped along the walls and ceilings.  He used up basically every inch of speaker wire he bought for it which was intended to be "so we have extra" in the process.

Computer wise, me and brother currently use these two specifically to not deal with the massive subwoofer boxes which can end up full of spiders where they get crammed under/near our desks.  Heaphone and AUX ports are on the right side of the right speaker.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00113PUJQ/

You cant see in the picture but they got basically a little baby subwoofer built into the top, complete with open hole.  Though again, this was for our computers, not the TV situation.

EDIT: We've gone the 'has a subwoofer' route before with our PC's and see the above.  My current situation I would not have have room for the subwoofer because it used to be between recliner and my desk, and now I got a bigger desk.  Under desk I'd be kicking it all the time.  Other side or further behind desk would be cobweb central.

EDIT Two: Out of paranoia, I would AVOID the second speaker you linked.  because
"This item is non-returnable." is one of the bulletpoints.
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:03, Mon 02 Feb 2015.
Monster Intern
player, 108 posts
Monster Party!
Monster Prices!
Thu 9 Apr 2015
at 03:36
  • msg #377

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Dragonborn Subrace options:  In 4th ed, Subraces (not everything has them, but Elves, Eladrin, dwarves, and dragonborn do for example) work like toggle switches that offer trades.  You get to pick and choose how much, if any, you want for that subrace.

Dragonborn have two subrace options.  Kapak, and Bozak.  You can only be one of these, but both have the Draconian wings option.

quote:
Instinctive Flight: Although your wings are not large enough or strong enough to sustain flight for long, your mobility is still quite extraordinary.

Benefit: You gain a fly speed of 6 squares (altitude limit 1). You cannot use this speed if you are carrying more than a normal load. You must land at the end of your turn. This benefit replaces Draconic Heritage.


Translation: Dragonborn trade away their "+CON to surge value" option for baby wings.
Altitude limit 2 (Pixies have Alt limit 1) means you crash if you end your turn flying higher than that many tiles above a surface.  You can still fly higher DURING your turn though.

Obvious downside: You are not allowed to fly in the first place, unless you deliberately land by the end of your turn.  "Normal Load" means heavy armor is an issue for Low Strength heavy armor classes, but since it does not outright say "no heavy armor" we'll just ignore encumbrance issues.

Eye crossing paradoxes:  Okay.  You have an altitude limit of 1, so you are not allowed to end your turn higher than that or you crash... But you are not allowed to fly in the first place unless you land by the end of your turn, so how would you ever trigger your altitude limit-oh dear my brain.

Comparison to Pixie flight: Pixies can float 1 tile above the ground indefinitly, as they are not required to land.  However, they are also follow "Small" weapon rules, which can be a massive headache (Pixie rangers are stuck with shortbows, for example).

EDIT:

Examples of mutually exclusive kapak and bozak options.

Kapak Specific:
Sinuous agility: +2 DEX/+2 CHA instead of normal stat selection

Murderous Eye: Benefit: Replace "Dragonborn Fury". You have combat advantage against enemies that are slowed, immobilized, or weakened, instead.


Bozak Specific:
Arcane Blood: Replace "Dragonborn Fury".
Benefit: You gain a +1 racial bonus to the damage rolls of your arcane attack powers. This bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level. This benefit replaces Dragonborn Fury.


Both can also replace their breath attack with a "When you DIE, you explode", but that's kind of lame.  Kapak version comes with a "Lick sword with a slowing poison" encounter power though. Not as cool as breath attack however.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:46, Thu 09 Apr 2015.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 424 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 01:36
  • msg #378

Re: Important Kingdom building points

  Trying to work out IC end of Monk, might not be Scott due to the gimmick.  But FIRST!

  How would Keyleth like "Move your speed +2?" as part of her at-wills?  If I'm remembering right, Keyleth is a Hybrid Monk/Druid.  So one of her At-wills is a monk attack.  There is a power creep supplement monk At-will, Steel Wind (From Heroes of the elemental chaos).  It's Full disipline is,  "Move: You are no longer marked. Move your speed+2".

  The attack itself is pretty great.  1d8+Dex, Close Blast 2 vs enemies.  CB2 is weird, it's basically lopsided. Imagine a Close Blast 3 with either the left or right side of it shaved off.

  Back to my Monk stuff.  The "Gimmick".  Not Unarmed, not Staff, yet still satisfying to use comparable to those.  Which is tricky because Unarmed gets various stacking perks (that the builder can't handle in the slightest), Staff has a zillion useful feats.  What does that leave?

  Slashing Kama Style: Get Sickle prof (Simple, +2, 1d6 light blade).  When wielding a sickle, you can choose one flurry of blows target adjacent to you to Instead take ONGOING Damage equal to what your flurry damage would have been.

  Which is pretty amazing.  So it's down to "Do I want Thri-kreen for Min/Max stats and some thri-kreen feat down the line".  Or "Do I want Human, for an extra at-will, and extra Feat".

  Leaning towards human, and at the very least a Level 1 Human would be > Level 1 Thri-kreen overall due to that feat and at-will.
This message was lightly edited by the GM at 01:36, Thu 16 Apr 2015.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 425 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Thu 7 May 2015
at 07:11
  • msg #379

Re: Important Kingdom building points

RE; Tempest fighter.

While I went Arena fighter for certain gimmick reasons,  Thri-Kreen is super great for Tempest Fighter both for statistic, and racial weapon reasons.

Stats: STR/DEX option.
Racial stuff:  Thri-Kreen weapon master feat.  Gives proficiency in Gythka (Superior double weapon) and Chatcka (military thrown).  More importantly, it gives a +2/3/4 per tier feat bonus to weapon DMG rolls with those weapons.

Gythka (superior double weapon) is a +2 prof, 1d8 for both ends.  One end counts as offhand, but it is also a defensive weapon and heavy thrown 5/10 weapon.  So you get dual wield and offhand damage bonuses from tempest, as well as +1 AC.  19 AC at level 1 while wearing hide armor.

Same as if you were using a heavy shield AC wise (since tempest gets two weapon defense as a freebie).

NOTE: I do not know if it is in the old builder or not, but even the current builder is durped for that racial feat and while it grants proficiencies, doesn't math in the racial damage bonuses by itself so gotta by hand that either way.
Monster Intern
player, 136 posts
Monster Party!
Monster Prices!
Wed 13 May 2015
at 03:59
  • msg #380

Re: Important Kingdom building points

racial defense

human: +1 all
Goliath: +1 will.
Deva: +1 all defense when attacked by bloodied enemies.
Eladrin: +1 will
changeling: +1 will
shadar-kai : +1 fort.
halfling: +2 vs AoO.
Goblin: +1 reflex.
Wilden: +1 to any single non AC defense.
Warforged: +1 will.
Githyanki: +1 will.

In ERRATA WORLD, Hengeyokai do not get a defense bonus. they get +2 bonus to escape grabs, and saves vs immobilized, restrained, and slowed.

Genasi meanwhile, some manifestations have defense.  Voidsoul have +1 will and 5 per tier psychic resist.  Firesoul is +1 reflex, Cindersoul is Fort, etc.


Expansion Genasi stuff in general (Abyssal voidsouls, dark sun style).

quote:
Causticsoul: You can breathe underwater. You also gain resist 5 acid and the acid surge power.
At 11th level, the resistance improves to 10 acid.
At 21st level, the resistance improves to 15 acid.

Cindersoul: You gain a +1 racial bonus to Fortitude, resist 5 fire, and the firedeath power.
At 11th level, the resistance improves to 10 fire.
At 21st level, the resistance improves to 15 fire.

Plaguesoul: You gain resist 5 poison, a +5 racial bonus to saving throws against disease, and the plaguebearer power.
At 11th level, the resistance improves to 10 poison.
At 21st level, the resistance improves to 15 poison.

Voidsoul: You gain resist 5 psychic, a +1 racial bonus to Will, and the void assumption power.
At 11th level, the resistance improves to 10 psychic.
At 21st level, the resistance improves to 15 psychic.

Embersoul: You have a +1 racial bonus to Reflex and a +2 racial bonus to saving throws against ongoing fire damage. In addition, you have the ashfall evasion power.

Magmasoul: You have a +1 racial bonus to Fortitude. Whenever you take fire damage, your melee attacks deal 1d6 extra fire damage until the end of your next turn. In addition, you have the flowing magma power.

Sandsoul: You have a +4 racial bonus to Acrobatics checks and Athletics checks made when taking the escape action. You also have a +2 racial bonus to saving throws against effects that immobilize, restrain, or slow you. In addition, you have the sandslide power.

Sunsoul: You have a +2 racial bonus to saving throws against ongoing damage that includes fire or radiant damage. You and your equipment suffer no ill effect from ambient temperatures between -50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit, and you are immune to sun sickness. In addition, you have the sun flare power.

This message was last edited by the player at 04:05, Wed 13 May 2015.
Timothius
GM, 363 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sun 17 May 2015
at 14:25
  • msg #381

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Thanks!
Mittens
GM, 1299 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 18 May 2015
at 03:48
  • msg #382

Re: Important Kingdom building points

That was post 13337.  O.o
Monster Intern
player, 137 posts
Monster Party!
Monster Prices!
Tue 19 May 2015
at 03:32
  • msg #383

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Hexblade attack stuff.

At-will
[M] Moonfire blade: Arcane, Implement, Radiant, Weapon.
+7 Vs. Reflex; 1d12+8 Radiant DMG.
HIT: If target ends it's turn next to you, it takes INT(4) Radiant damage.
Special: Melee basic. So it can be used for AoO and such.

[R] Eldritch Bolt: Arcane, Force, Implement.
+5 Vs. Reflex; 1d10+8 Force DMG.  Range 10.
Special: Ranged Basic.

[Pact Boon; Free action]Soul Step Arcane, Teleport.
Trigger: You reduce an enemy to 0 HP, or an enemy next to you is reduced to 0 hp.
Effect: You teleport up to DEX(4) tiles.

Encounter
Well Of LightArcane, Aura, Implement, radiant, Weapon.
+7 Vs AC; 2d12+8 Radiant DMG.
Effect: Until end of your next turn, you have an Aura 1. While inside the aura, enemies have vulnerable 3 to your radiant attacks.

Dragonbreath Close Blast 3 Vs All.
+6 Vs Reflex. 1d6+4 Fire DMG.

Daily
Hellfire Blast: arcane, fire, implement.
Close Blast 3 Vs All.
+5 Vs Reflex; 3g8+4 Fire DMG.
Miss: Half DMG.
Mittens
GM, 1356 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 1 Jun 2015
at 07:14
  • msg #384

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Mittens
GM, 1370 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Wed 3 Jun 2015
at 19:21
  • msg #385

Re: Important Kingdom building points

bored with mits' build.  impressive damage, yes.  but i guess i likes me my aoe too much.  so prolly going to go with SoW build for a bit.  Maybe reflavor it as a teleporting jedi.
Matt
player, 793 posts
I am two things.
A Fighter, and a Fighter
Sat 6 Jun 2015
at 06:25
  • msg #386

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Frivolous ideas that will probably never happen.

Matt Weapon:
This plain, unadorned warhammer has a comfortable heft to it.

Heroic:
Dwarven thrower base stats. Increase range to flat 12, instead of 6/12.
Heavy Thrown does not trigger AoO.
+1/2/3 per tier bonus to Heavy thrown Hit and DMG rolls.

CRIT: 1d6, Slowed and can't shift (save ends) Aftereffect: Slowed (Save ends).
Offhand property.
Small Property (just because).

Paragon:
Even if they target you, marked enemies still suffer a hit penalty against your allies.

When you hit with the weapon, mark one additional enemy either adjacent to yourself, or the target.

Epic:
If a target is marked by you, you can perform an AoO or Combat Challenge with heavy thrown if they take an action that would trigger either.

When you attack with the weapon, mark one additional enemy either adjacent to yourself, or the target.

Encounter power;Free: Hammer Throw
Effect: Perform a standard action Melee (Non burst or blast) attack power, as a heavy thrown attack.

Paragon Unlock
Daily power; Minor. Hammer Time:

Make a heavy thrown ranged basic attack.  For the rest of the encounter, once per round you can perform a heavy thrown ranged basic as a minor action.
  Epic; +2 untyped bonus to hit and damage rolls with weapon.
This message was last edited by the player at 06:25, Sat 06 June 2015.
Mittens
GM, 1383 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sat 6 Jun 2015
at 07:05
  • msg #387

Re: Important Kingdom building points

What is keeping it from happening?
Tark
player, 2 posts
Tue 21 Jul 2015
at 06:26
  • msg #388

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Regarding Seth's 5th Ed game.

I'll mention frivolous mundane gear later, because that is a lot more straight forward and no way I'm gonna put a dent in my budget. Not like I'm buying a boat, and I already own plate.

Magical wise.

Primary:
Haversack good enough to not have 'can only remove items in order they were put in' annoyance.
So I can carry my obsession with mundane gear without cutting into party's looted magical containers.  counting pounds just exceeds my note taking willingness capacity.

Secondary:
cheap bag of holding so I can store more "Need it mid fight" items.
Tark may be carrying a bag of holding already, but that's a looted one and more meant to help the party overall carry capacity.

Frivolous:
Transfer lightning jav magic over to the crit landing javelin.  Yes, I know the crit was against ME. I still trust it more.

After all that, If magic budget or time/skill allows:
Upgrades to my magical combat gear.
Primary: Angel Arms, but I expect that to be outside our means just yet.
Secondary: Improve the cloak of protection, if possible.

Frivolous: upgrades to the lightning javelin that do not make it need attunement.  Though I'll be honest, I'd be tempted to make it attunable if I could bolt on "Range 120/120" to it, even with how horrible my hit record is with it.
Timothius
GM, 364 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sat 25 Jul 2015
at 04:27
  • msg #389

Re: Important Kingdom building points

To add to what Tark posted... here is the super simplified version of what Seth is giving Jack:

JACK:
5 potions of healing
2 uncommon items (Hat of Disguise recommended)
1 rare item
5,000 gp worth of magic items (either 1 rare, or bunch of uncommon/common items)

Suggestion
5 common potions (2 can be swapped for 1 common magic item)
2 uncommon and 2 rare assuming 2 potion swap for haversack


....somewhere in there is "mithril bow that can be used as finesse weapon", but neither Tark nor I know what kind of item that would be (common, uncommon, rare?). Also, Tark and GM both recommend you get yourself some kind of magical instrument.
Mittens
GM, 1448 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sat 25 Jul 2015
at 05:03
  • msg #390

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Jack is intended for team support.  So I'm fine with taking whatever the team wants him to have that'll benefit them.  :3
Tark
player, 3 posts
Sat 25 Jul 2015
at 08:11
  • msg #391

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Current confirmation that the "Thunderwave light crossbow" will be Uncommon.

Seth also suggested the "Arye Archlute", which would be rare.  Though I have no idea what that is, and attempts to search for it in the DMG get nothing (maybe it was another custom item?).
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 426 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Mon 10 Aug 2015
at 22:27
  • msg #392

Re: Important Kingdom building points

http://pyromancers.com/dungeon-painter-online/

Saw this "map maker" linked.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 427 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Wed 12 Aug 2015
at 20:49
  • msg #393

Re: Important Kingdom building points

http://www.rockpapershotgun.co...4/08/dota-2-cosplay/

Linking this because it personally amuses me that two out of three of the cosplay images in that "Dota cosplay event" link are from SMITE.

That and one of them is for SMITE's verison of Scylla.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 428 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Thu 20 Aug 2015
at 07:44
  • msg #394

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Posting end results of Jack item shuffle for reminders and any "Oh that's wrong" corrections.

*Cloak Of Displacement + Cloak Of Protection (Combined. Rare).
*Ayre Archlute (Rare).
Thunder Bolt (Light Crossbow, Uncommon).
*Hat Of Disguise (Uncommon).
Lesser Quickdraw Belt (Uncommon).
Haversack (Uncommon).

Scroll of animal speech.
2 potions of health.

*Attune item.

Funding: I'm too tired to count Chris's magic money for him right now.
Lucy Mooncrusher
Player, 1 post
To light our
darkest hour
Fri 21 Aug 2015
at 03:54
  • msg #395

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Seth feel free to correct my pricetags. This is from what I understand of the requirements:

Scroll/potion of 1st lvl spells: 50gp
Common: 100gp
Uncommon: 500gp
Rare: 2500

Cloak Of Displacement + Cloak Of Protection (Attune. Combined. Rare).
  Price: 2500(Displacement)+1500(Protection*3) = 4000
Ayre Archlute (Attune. Rare).
  Price: 2500
Thunder Bolt (Light Crossbow, Uncommon).
  Price: 500
Hat Of Disguise (Attune. Uncommon).
  Price: 500
Lesser Quickdraw Belt (Uncommon).
  Price: 500
Haversack (Uncommon).
  Price: 500

Scroll of Speak With Animal.
  Price: 50gp
2 potions of health.
  Price: 50gp * 2 = 100gp

Total funding spent: 8150
Mittens
GM, 1455 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sun 30 Aug 2015
at 04:32
  • msg #396

Re: Important Kingdom building points

tim and i on roll20
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 429 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Sat 12 Mar 2016
at 11:55
  • msg #397

Re: Important Kingdom building points

Note to self:

scales
Timmy thread

City

Faction old
faction new (Blanking so hard)

mutations

star old
Forgotten Realms Narrator
Narrator, 4 posts
For the D&D 5e
Campaign Thread
Wed 4 Jan 2017
at 05:11
  • msg #398

Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP

Option A… Modified from Wall of Thorns named:
Mass of Mappo no Ryujin (6th Level Conjuration)
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet
Components: V, S, M (a preserved tentacle or pseudopod from a creature and a sharp tooth)
Duration: Concentration, up to 10 minutes
        You create a mass of squirming, slippery, flexible, tangled dark green-blue pseudopods bristling with razor-sharp white teeth. The mass appears within range on a solid surface and lasts for the duration. You choose to make the mass up to 60 feet long, 10 feet high, and 5 feet thick or a circle that has a 20-foot diameter and is up to 20 feet high and 5 feet thick. The mass blocks line of sight.
        When the mass appears, each creature within its area must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, a creature takes 6d6 piercing and psychic damage and is frightened of the mass, and not the caster, or half as much damage and not frightened on a successful save. While any creature is within the mass, it hears frightening whispers in a multitude of voices.
        A creature can move through the mass, albeit slowly and painfully. For every 1 foot a creature moves through the mass, it must spend 4 feet of movement. Furthermore, the first time a creature enters the mass on a turn or ends its turn there, the creature must make a Dexterity saving throw. It takes 6d6 slashing and psychic damage and is frightened of the wall on a failed save, or half as much damage and not frightened on a successful one.
       A creature that starts its turn frightened of the mass will continue to be frightened until either the creature makes a Charisma save at the end of a turn or the mass vanishes when the spell ends.


Or Option B...Refluffed Wall of Thorns but identical in every way. Named: Wall of Teeth
Name to be decided depending on version used. (6th Level conjuration)
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet
Components: V, S, M (a preserved tentacle or pseudopod from a creature)
Duration: Concentration, up to 10 minutes
        You create a wall of tough, pliable, tangled pseudopods bristling with razor-sharp teeth. The wall appears within range on a solid surface and lasts for the duration. You choose to make the wall up to 60 feet long, 10 feet high, and 5 feet thick or a circle that has a 20-foot diameter and is up to 20 feet high and 5 feet thick. The wall blocks line o f sight.
        When the wall appears, each creature within its area must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, a creature takes 7d8 piercing damage, or half as much damage on a successful save.
        A creature can move through the wall, albeit slowly and painfully. For every 1 foot a creature moves through the wall, it must spend 4 feet of movement. Furthermore, the first time a creature enters the wall on a turn or ends its turn there, the creature must make a Dexterity saving throw. It takes 7d8 slashing damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.


Will use either A or B for the spell and discard non-used version when spell is finalized.
EDIT: redid version A to avoid the self-chaining damage due to restraining making it hard to escape so they would keep taking damage or they would stay still and let the group attack them. After working on the revised version of A with Joe, I'm leaning towards that version (Mass of Mappo no Ryujin) as it provides some soft control while being thematic and avoiding any self-arising damage loops as a frightened creature won't remain in the wall or re-enter it of its own free will.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:23, Wed 04 Jan 2017.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 430 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Wed 4 Jan 2017
at 08:27
  • msg #399

Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP

I'm still of the view that there should be no chain damage for the restrain version, like we talked about before you posted up the edited version still including chain damage.

As that just puts targets into a catch 22 dice screw loop to try and leave.  And then even if they succeed, they still have to deal with the risk of just having the situation respammed upon them for more chain damage potential.  Even if they have a good chance to make it out, it's still basically a rigged slot machine setup by design.

"Oh sure, now that you've taken damage and have been restrained all you have to do is bet on succeeding! But if you don't you take more damage and have to do this all over again (while the enemy takes potshots at you).  But if you win, you're free*"
*Free to only go one direction in our favor, enjoy your "escape". Hope no warlocks who cast this spell happen to shoot you all of one time with their E blasts they can fire three times in a row at this level and toss you back into something you need save throws to escape!

It's brings it from being a good spell, to one that looks like a rules lawyer wrote it, and reminds me of how "Restrained + X" was a popular turbo munchkin tactic way back in Champions MUSH.

Ignore any "but they are being chewed on, so it makes sense that-" and consider pure mechanical design on this front.

If you want damage for the restrain version instead of the "We just copy/paste wall of thorns", then it can only apply damage once on the way in.

Aside from that? 6d6 is hardly a drop compared to 7d8 in the long run to add on the incredibly strong effect of restrained.  Which makes chain damage on top all the more "Wait, what?".

6d6+restrain across a whole wall would at least be almost reasonable if it could only trigger once, however.  Which is still quite a lot considering restrained makes everyone an EZ target that can't really fight back (Advantage on every attack against them, Disadvantage on every attack they make).

EDIT: Oh that's right I forgot.  Restrained applies disadvantage to Dex saves.  So it was more rigged than I thought regardless of STR checks being a secondary option.

Though I guess most people who write official spells either don't realize how one sided broken that is... Or are perfectly aware of it when they write it.
This message was last edited by the GM at 09:02, Wed 04 Jan 2017.
Mittens
GM, 1477 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Thu 5 Jan 2017
at 15:57
  • msg #400

Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP

i don't even understand the purpose of this exchange.  are we building a homebrew spell for wastelands?  6th level?  That's getting a tad ahead of ourselves.  or is this just a hypothetical "what if" idea for a game that will never happen?
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 431 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Thu 5 Jan 2017
at 20:02
  • msg #401

Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP

Mittens:
i don't even understand the purpose of this exchange.  are we building a homebrew spell for wastelands?  6th level?  That's getting a tad ahead of ourselves.  or is this just a hypothetical "what if" idea for a game that will never happen?

The initial cause basically, was that the warlock spell list already being rather bare bones for assorted meta logic reasons, just goes into full bore "Meh, who cares?" territory past level 5.

With such wonders as "There are only four spells on their 7th level list". and "Half the spells at 6th level are just supplement spells, which in turn are just "We split an elemental buff spell, into four different spells for specific elements lol"

That won't be much of a problem for you personally in SiW if you follow the suggested path of the Munchkin "Treat Warlock as a two level cantrip and fuel source for sorcerer" though.  (Though it will eventually turn up for my straight warlock).

Seth also wanted a custom spell rather than just borrowing from the spell table to have something "More chtullu themed"... But you can guess how trying to meet "Great Old One" standards went from a balance perspective (Just ask Tim about the very first shot at the custom spell).

Combined with lots of hindsight about underlying mechanics, not helped by official spells being of questionable balance tuning often anyways.

But said custom spell's most recent revision is at a point of good cool thematic spell that's also reasonable.

Take Wall Of Thorns.  Add a "I don't want to go into the spooky murder wall, duh" fear effect on the wall.  Lower but meta buff the damage from 7d8 pierce, to 6d6 half pierce half psychic.  So it's lowered reasonably cap/averages wise for the control effect, but thematically better off against 'LOL I tank even magical weapon damage!' stuff.

So now the biggest question is as usual, "Was it worth opening the Pandora's box of 'Ask Will for balancing advice'?"
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:17, Thu 05 Jan 2017.
Markus
Player, 1 post
Level 5 Warlock
HP: 38/38
Sun 8 Jan 2017
at 02:14
  • msg #402

Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP

Yes it was worth it to ask for other people's opinions on the spell.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 432 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Sun 13 Aug 2017
at 00:58
  • msg #403

Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP

Hopefully you're not too distracted, busy, or forgot, but like I passed along for Seth the other night-

""oh btw when you next see Tim online let him know that I'll be able to hold the wastelands session saturday night I expect we'll be starting at 10:30 Eastern (9:30 central)""
Mittens
GM, 1481 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Tue 21 May 2019
at 03:05
  • msg #404

Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP

so in Margreve we have

warforged druid
elf alchemist

drow sorc
goblin ranger (melee)

human fighter (built to be mix of ranged and melee will probably end up being 99% ranged in actual combat.)

and that leaves me.  one thought i had was nathan (using aricocra or some other wings race) and make him a tree sniper.  but that leaves us with 1.01 frontline melee persons.  was also considering playing a rogue.  not sure how well stabby rogue would work out with only 1.01 melee persons.  definitely not playing a caster in "casters take penalties" setting no matter how soon that gets erased.  learned the hard way 5e casters aren't worth the effort.  unless maybe warlock?  since hypothetical salt in wounds warlock won't ever see light of day...  too indecisive.  any votes for what would be fun for you guys to add to the team?
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 434 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Tue 21 May 2019
at 05:01
  • msg #405

Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP

Mittens:
so in Margreve we have

warforged druid
elf alchemist

drow sorc
goblin ranger (melee)

human fighter (built to be mix of ranged and melee will probably end up being 99% ranged in actual combat.)

and that leaves me.  one thought i had was nathan (using aricocra or some other wings race) and make him a tree sniper.  but that leaves us with 1.01 frontline melee persons.  was also considering playing a rogue.  not sure how well stabby rogue would work out with only 1.01 melee persons.  definitely not playing a caster in "casters take penalties" setting no matter how soon that gets erased.  learned the hard way 5e casters aren't worth the effort.  unless maybe warlock?  since hypothetical salt in wounds warlock won't ever see light of day...  too indecisive.  any votes for what would be fun for you guys to add to the team?


We've got good house rules so Warlocks do not suffer The World's Smallest Spell List, so as long as you remember those it could work out in a Seth campaign better than the norm. (You'd still be dealing with 'So you have TWO spells per short rest, until level 11 though, so get used to 90% cantrips even then)

That said?  Maybe a Paladin could work out for what you want.  5th ed Lay on hands has "Cures any disease, full stop" so only the power of railroading would stop that.

The usual Smite stuff isn't impacted by a floating -1 hit/DC effect of the forest.  And specific type wise, the paladins with charm immunity auras would probably be real useful in self important magic forest land.

There is also the SPITE factor, as Margreve has like, zero stuff for paladins.  The list of "who uses what new spells" omits the paladin entirely, Like, wowie zowie.

(and the cleric only gets one token hunt worshiper path mostly to show off margreve spells anyways)
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:06, Tue 21 May 2019.
Mittens
GM, 1482 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Tue 21 May 2019
at 06:27
  • msg #406

Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP

Paladin it is!  Thanks for the help deciding.  I'll be aiming for the dex build described here:  https://www.gametruth.com/guid...-to-build-a-paladin/ 'cause i'm expecting that to be the most compatible with a flying race.  i'm assuming we're all taking the standard 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 ability scores?
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 435 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Tue 21 May 2019
at 06:49
  • msg #407

Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP

Mittens:
Paladin it is!  Thanks for the help deciding.  I'll be aiming for the dex build described here:  https://www.gametruth.com/guid...-to-build-a-paladin/ 'cause i'm expecting that to be the most compatible with a flying race.  i'm assuming we're all taking the standard 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 ability scores?

Regular point buy as per usual.  The array you listed adds up to the legal point buy totals, but as long as it's point buy legal pick your stats.  (of particular note, it's impossible to pay for more than a 15 before modifiers).

Most "guides" are kind of horrible and only think of sterile lab conditions at high levels,  and that guide in particular just really highlights that with "Tough will let you survive better!" *picks tough before sentinel when it gives you next to no hitpoints*

Throw this in the garbaaaaaage. "Give your paladin studded leather!" It's like this guide is trying to make Paladins die faster! (You'll start with worse AC than other options, gain AC slower, and then end only 'as good' as half-plate anyways, or worse if you take +AC feat for medium armors).
This message was last edited by the GM at 07:01, Tue 21 May 2019.
Mittens
GM, 1483 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Tue 21 May 2019
at 07:42
  • msg #408

Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP

doh.  here i'd hoped searching for "simple 5e paladin build" would get me something halfway decent.  just about every search i do for "5e paladin build" ends with short discussions on options or massive guides with a zillion options, but no actual paladin builds.  don't suppose any of the modules have a cookie-cutter paladin in the back like many of the Pathfinder modules do?
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 436 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Tue 21 May 2019
at 09:04
  • msg #409

Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP

Mittens:
doh.  here i'd hoped searching for "simple 5e paladin build" would get me something halfway decent.  just about every search i do for "5e paladin build" ends with short discussions on options or massive guides with a zillion options, but no actual paladin builds.  don't suppose any of the modules have a cookie-cutter paladin in the back like many of the Pathfinder modules do?

Half-Elf: +2 CHA. Picks +1/+1 STR/CON.

Str; 14+1r+1f = 16 (yes. Feat reasons)
Dex; 10
Con; 15+1r = 16
Int; 8
Wis; 10
Cha; 15+2r =16

Campaign freebie feat: Heavy armor mastery (which also grants +1 STR). Heavy armor gives flat -3 damage taken from mundane damage.

The most He-Man possible starting position for a Paladin without cheating by trotting out busted homebrew or "semi-official" stuff. works for any paladin path.

(It can't be overstated how absurdly "Practically a demi-god" three 16 stats at level 1 is)
This message was last edited by the GM at 09:16, Tue 21 May 2019.
Mittens
GM, 1484 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Tue 21 May 2019
at 16:56
  • msg #410

Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP

Awesome!  Thanks!  Now to decide on a look.  Prolly goin with a gal since tim's drow is the only other gal in the team i know of.
Margreve Narrator
Narrator, 2 posts
Wed 22 May 2019
at 15:47
  • msg #411

Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP

 Hmm my notes had Mittens going with 'Nathan  - Variant Winged Aasimar - Oath of Vengence Paladin (To get wings gives up subrace 3rd level trait, light bringer, and the healing hands traits to gain a flight speed of 30 when not wearing heavy armor.) - starting feat was polearm mastery.' But a female Half-elf paladin works better (since Nathan couldn't get Str 16 at lvl 1 with polearm mastery and would have a lower AC due to medium armor. And I have no clue what Nathan's stats would have been I'm guessing STR 15, Dex 14, Con 14 (with Racial boost), Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 15 (with racial boost) at lvl 4 could go +1 Str/+1Cha to get both to 16, but still behind the Female Half-elf Paladin's Str by 2pts at that level (assuming +2str for the half-elf at lvl 4), would have fewer hit points, and lower AC and no damage reduction but gains flight when in medium armor or lighter.

Personally, I think the half-elf will be more effective, as flight is limited in the Margreve woods due to thick branches all over the place.
Out of curiosity what type of paladin will you be going? Oath of the Ancients has a lean towards Nature which would be rather appropriate in the Margreve. Vengeance is also good for damage. Devotion would play sort of like Zerry. Conquest is a bit of a fearmonger (trying to make foes afraid of him to exploit an offensive aura to reduce their speed to 0). Redemption is a pacifist.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:49, Wed 22 May 2019.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 437 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Wed 22 May 2019
at 17:17
  • msg #412

Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP

While it may seem to lack "I push the button that makes the attacks gooder" features.  Redemption path amuses me because it gets "Damage reflection still counts as being morally superior!" as it's second channel option. (Also a nice solid spell list. Super OP hypnotic pattern and super valuable counterspell, and both hold spells.).  +5 to persuasion checks for 10 minutes also makes it one of the most "I have noncombat uses!" paladin that isn't "Devotion gets zone of truth".

Of course the radiant damage reflect it only works if the badguy is within 30 feet of the paladin when they hit someone else, so MMO kite boulder throwers wouldn't get effected.  It would still count for if a dragon blasted the party.

People gush about Vengeance path a lot, but it's basically "I want to duel the boss" path so can falter outside of lab conditions.

"I cast haste! Then use my channel divinity to give myself advantage on attack rolls vs my Oath target! And use my reaction as an extra swing vs oath target!"
"Cool, what do you do about the other enemies?"
"...What?"

Very good at what it does, but what it does is put one guy through a blender and say "But look at my Boss DPS chart!" when it's not doing that.

Devotion is the most straightforward one in "Want to be a Paladin", as usual.  It's got the most straightforward combat buff channel (+1 long term instead of "This ONE guy/ONE swing!"), anti undead/demon turn,

Ancients is very Meh. Even in a setting chock full of Fey stuff.

Conquest is highly gimmicky, and that temptation of "Paladin that learns dominate person" is still all the way at lv 17. It involves the most thinking about niche modifiers and that's even with a generous assumption nothing will ever be immune to fear. It can work great! But it's probably the paladin with the most hoops to jump through for it's gimmicks to work.

TL;DR: Overall for Chris's needs, I'd suggest either Devotion (PHB), or Redemption (Xanathar's guide).  They are the most broad strokes paladins rather than "But if you do X and Y when Z happens *points at chart*"
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:23, Wed 22 May 2019.
Margreve Narrator
Narrator, 3 posts
Wed 22 May 2019
at 19:55
  • msg #413

Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP

In reply to Joe Darkthorne (msg # 412):

Oath of the Ancients has a few things your possibly underselling. It is the best at anti-horde for a paladin as it gets a few more AoE spells and it has the ability to restrain targets with channel divinity. That is basically a paralysis ability. Plus they have the aura that gives resistance to all spell damage which makes them excel vs enemy casters.
Ancient is like 4e warden, Vengeance is like 4e avenger and devotion is like the 4e paladin. I'm not sure which one Mittens would prefer. We both agree that Devotion is a good choice but I'm not all that fond of as martial archetype that discourages martial action which is why I dislike Redemption as I think that approach is better for a full caster than a half caster. Ancient is defensive which is probably why you think it is meh for Mittens...and it may be for him unless he likes the playstyle of the 4e Warden.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:53, Wed 22 May 2019.
Barbara Naur
Player, 0 posts
Thu 23 May 2019
at 23:19
  • msg #414

Re: Possible Custom spell for Markus in LMoP

Thanks for the input!  I'm looking for "easy to build and play" without winding up a 1-trick pony.  (Which is what I'm told rogue would be like.  Yay massive single-target damage!  Aaand that's all I do.)

I noticed a lack of meat-shield in the team, so a paladin who's more focused on shrugging off half a dozen treants rolling higher initiative and throwing boulders at her would probably be great.  Damage dealing and AoE spells, while something I tend to enjoy muchly, may not be what the team needs.  (And certainly not worth the hassle of playing a 5e wizard.)  The team's Alchemist, Druid, and Sorcerer probably have the magical battlefield control covered.  But I wouldn't complain at all if my paladin wound up with a holy hand grenade or two.
This message was last updated by the player at 23:19, Thu 23 May 2019.
Margreve Narrator
Narrator, 4 posts
Fri 24 May 2019
at 13:54
  • msg #415

TotOM Prep

In reply to Barbara Naur (msg # 414):

Hmm, then this paladin definitely could either go for a one hander and shield to maximize your AC at the cost of offense. Although another option is the Polearm-mastery route with a polearm and pick that feat up at 4th level unless your willing to not start with the 3 16s, or since your a half-elf could go the double scimitar route by taking Revenant Blade (instead of Heavy armor master as a starting feat) which still lets you get +1 str or dex (you'd want str so your stats wouldn't change) and while it makes the double-bladed scimitar finesse you can still use str with it... and while it is a two-handed weapon (a double weapon) you'd get +1 AC with it (so only 1 AC behind a shield) AND you'd get the ability to use a bonus action to make a melee attack with it that would do 2d4+str damage.

The Double bladed scimitar is a 2d4 slashing weapon that weighs six pounds (it would cost 35gp out of your 200gp starting funds)
Which it doesn't give you the extra reaction attacks that polearm master gives you or the reach that most polearms have but it gives you a good bonus action attack and a +1 to AC so it is a bit more defensive than polearm master

Technically since you can use polearm mastery with a quarterstaff you could use it with a shield, but then you give up the reach of a proper polearm.

(Revenant Blade feat and double scimitar are in the Wayfinder's guide to Eberron.)
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 438 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Fri 24 May 2019
at 16:44
  • msg #416

TotOM Prep

I remember an ancient conversation where we balanced out wacky dual weapons to be in line with official "what you could have had with PHB based dual wielding" weaponry, damage wise.  (Part of how Joe was going to end up with a 1d6 dual shortsword that isn't supplement creep).

Because consistent damage tables and explaining stuff like "Yes, 2dX over 1dY really IS that big a deal" have been a longstanding thing with me.

But even ignoring that? Paladins can't take dual wielding style

Which is what you need to make Dual wielding even slightly worth it on a non rogue martial.  Welp!  They also can't take the Archery style in case that comes up for some strange reason.

(Of course, knowing my luck. power creep probably included something like "If you are an elf you get damage mod to bonus action attacks for free just for even owning a double scimitar, So our rangers can take the archery style but go full Drizzt!" or whatever)

Anyways!  Great weapon fighting works for polearms and plain old "I crush them with my maul" (as Tark has shown).  But while there is the raw numbers appeal of "Paladin has the biggest weapon in the party", Duelist is no fuss all done, no feats for optimization involved (I mean, you don't need feats for maximum Maul o'clock, but polearm mastery does vastly increase the hilarity of pole arms)
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:57, Fri 24 May 2019.
Forgotten Realms Narrator
Narrator, 5 posts
For the D&D 5e
Campaign Thread
Fri 24 May 2019
at 17:03
  • msg #417

TotOM Prep

In reply to Joe Darkthorne (msg # 416):

I think I recall that conversation now so the double scimitar would just be 1d6 instead of 2d4 and can't remember if he'd get the +stat damage or not with that feat, I know he gets it with the Polearm feat (which he could take at level 4 if he didn't want to start with it and not have 3 16s) And forgot that paladins don't get the dual wielding fighting style option...
Mittens
GM, 1486 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sat 25 May 2019
at 06:46
  • msg #418

TotOM Prep

CoX!

https://imgur.com/XGNwS8P

Couldn't resist installing.  XD
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 439 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Wed 29 May 2019
at 03:44
  • msg #419

TotOM Prep

Half-Elf Paladin quick numbers (assuming my example stat spread+Feat)

Campaign Freebie Feat: Heavy Armor Master. +1 STR. Flat 3 damage reduction vs Mundane DMG.

STR: 14+1(R)+1(F) = 16
DEX: 10
CON: 15+1(R)= 16
INT: 8
WIS: 10
CHA: 14+2(R)= 16

HP:  13  (10+CON).
Lv ups: 6+CON.

Save profs: WIS, CHA.

AC: 16 Via Armor. (Chainmail).
18 if Chainmail+shield.

DC: 8+2(prof)+3(CHA) = 13

STR Weapons: +5 To-Hit. 1dX+3 DMG.

Skills: 6 picks. (two above average)
4 if they take a half-elf variant. (average skill count)

+1 racial language for free.

"You have to do this yourself. Full stop." BG based language vs tools.
2 Tools, 2 languages, or 1 tool 1 language.

BG Feature (cherry pick from an existing background).

Million zillionth reminder that 5th ed "Backgrounds" are not optional extras. They are half your default proficiencies. (That's why most classes have "only" 2 skills listed)

What are variant half elves?:

Cash in the +2 skills for- (of the non redundant options)

A: Half wood elf for Fleet of foot (35 foot speed),
  OR Mask of the wild (Stealth checks allowed in "Natural light obscurement". Flimsy shrubs. spooky fog. "How much does your GM love stealth?" )

B: Half high elf. For any one cantrip, casts with INT if stats involved. (The "I want presti!" option)

C: Half Drow, for the Drow magic trait. (all CHA based, even though only 1/3 even use stats to cast).
  lv 1, dancing lights cantrip.
  Lv 3, cast once per day faeire fire.
  Lv 5, cast once per day darkness.

D: half water elf for 30 foot swim speed.
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:53, Wed 29 May 2019.
Barbara Naur
Player, 1 post
Wed 29 May 2019
at 04:42
  • msg #420

TotOM Prep

Re ranks Reorge!

Been putting off due to being slammed with allergy headaches the past several days.  Becauuuse.  Go to my former Dr.  "You still have the expensive serum I need in my arms so my head doesn't explode.  But you don't carry my new insurance.  So... gimme the serum and I'll personally deliver it to the Hagerstown Allergy office that does carry my insurance."

Them: "K.  Here you go.  Keep it cold."

"Yay.  That was easy."

*Drives to Allergy Dr. in MD*  "Here's my insurance card.  Here's the serum."

Them: "Oops!  This says your insurance is from PA.  You'll have to go to the PA office to get your shots.  This MD office isn't authorized to bill PA carriers of this insurance."

"Ugh.  Fine.  I'll need their shot schedule."

Them: "The PA office only administers shots on Tuesdays."

*Head Explodes*

Upshot.  Tuesday has arrived at last.  Shots already helping.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:45, Wed 29 May 2019.
Mittens
GM, 1487 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Fri 31 May 2019
at 00:20
  • msg #421

TotOM Prep

Two very emotionally charged family matters have snowballed into URGENT very emotionally charged family matters.  Dealing with them from day to day in between various other surprise urgent junk is very mentally draining.  Will be putting everything else on low priority for the foreseeable future.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 440 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Fri 31 May 2019
at 00:54
  • msg #422

Re: TotOM Prep

Mittens:
Two very emotionally charged family matters have snowballed into URGENT very emotionally charged family matters.  Dealing with them from day to day in between various other surprise urgent junk is very mentally draining.  Will be putting everything else on low priority for the foreseeable future.

I hope everything goes as well as it can, you already have enough problems in your life as it is without new ones.
Timothius
GM, 386 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sat 1 Jun 2019
at 22:34
  • msg #423

Re: TotOM Prep

BG Benefit ideas:

Trustworthy Face
People just open up around you. Things that would normally be considered private or not for common ears often leak to you when you talk with people.

People Guage
You can guage people at a glance. You may not know their motives or who is skilled at lying (or anything else Insight gives you), but you get a "feeling" of who looks approachable and who looks good for getting the information you may be after. Whenever you want to, you can find someone you may be able to either get useful information from or simply useful to befriend. Examples include knowing someone in the bar has clear signs of being a regular, someone who carries himself like a military man, someone who looks amiable, someone who looks lonely, someone who looks wealthier than normal, etc.

Margreve Network
You know the people and creatures of the Margreve rather well and can navigate who to talk to about matters concerning the Margreve and how to find them. For example, if you wanted to find a ranger or druid, you know places to check for them or methods to have them find you. If you are lost, you know ways of calling for a guide.

Magnetic
Maybe you're good looking. Maybe you're charismatic. Whatever the reason, people like you and flock to you as if you were famous. After spending an hour or more in a town, people quickly find out who you are and what you're about. Most will have rose-colored glasses where you are concerned.


Lemme know how these look and what I could do to edit them to be feasible features.

Also: Although I am not taking the Knight Retainers background benefit, I do want to know what is normally involved in generating them. I know they are non-combat, but do they still have stats? Skills? Etc?
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:47, Sat 01 June 2019.
Elric
GM, 297 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Sat 1 Jun 2019
at 23:25
  • msg #424

Re: TotOM Prep

For the retainers, I'm basically allowing any CR 0 beast that has been awakened or using a commoner of whatever PC eligible race that generates the abilities (stats/skills) of the individual.

For backgrounds, not really sure what you're trying to go for with them to properly evaluate them. However trustworthy face seems problematic, strangers are not going to come up to you and tell you secrets.
Mittens
GM, 1488 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sun 2 Jun 2019
at 21:11
  • msg #425

Re: TotOM Prep

Woke up after my usual 2 hours too few.  Plenty of time between then and scheduled Skype call, so I popped 2mg of melatonin.  Woke up after 9 hrs total sleep feeling like this was going to be a severe allergy day.  Skype call got canceled, so yay for that.  Coughed up gunk.  Oh.  That explains why severe allergy symptoms even though I got my shots.  I've caught a cold.  Took zink, vitamin C, etc.  *Crashes for another 2.5 hours*  Woke up super groggy.  Then find a finished Barby charsheet in PM!  Yaay!  =)
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 441 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Thu 6 Jun 2019
at 00:36
  • msg #426

Re: TotOM Prep

  I expect Rocky and Caeldrim's reaction might be some clash of "What the module flavor text and image says Vs what the module encounter text and map says"?

  The text description and big image highlight how the party can easily walk right up to the wagon unopposed and risk free unless the enemy leaves the wagon.

  But it's nothing new for modules to put enemies someplace they can't possibly shoot you from, then still got "THEY SHOOT THE PARTY!".  So if that's the case, I expect our group can work with that.

  If "see if they fall for 'literal goblin' and 'human that speaks goblin' pranks" doesn't pan out, of course.
This message was last edited by the GM at 00:36, Thu 06 June 2019.
Elric
GM, 298 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Fri 7 Jun 2019
at 00:26
  • msg #427

Re: TotOM Prep

While the map for the encounter is nice, it doesn't perfectly match up with the written description (or the description of what the goblins inside of it can do)...I fully expect the party to be able to work with it, hilariously trying to talk to the goblins in goblin (possibly by a goblin PC) was never even brought up within the encounter module...time to improvise.
Mittens
GM, 1489 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Sat 20 Jul 2019
at 04:40
  • msg #428

Re: TotOM Prep

Barbara Naur
Player, 26 posts
Sun 1 Dec 2019
at 18:55
  • msg #429

Re: TotOM Prep

Barbara wishes you all a Merry Christmas!  (Or whatever passes for the Winter Solstice Celebration in Fantasy Land.)  :P

https://scontent.fagc1-2.fna.f...8a2a&oe=5E7F7262

https://image.moboplay.com/ima...mes.empires_icon.png
Timothius
GM, 387 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sat 1 Feb 2020
at 01:54
  • msg #430

Re: TotOM Prep

Been wanting to comment on these two pics for a while now. Love both pics! Though the first one does cover the usual wtf of exposed belly in the middle of winter when you are wearing heavy armor and a thick cape. XD
"Actually, it's just flesh colored armor. I've learned it distracts opponents."
"....oh"

The second one's very soothing to look at. Sorry I haven't drawn Barbie yet. One of these days!
Elric
GM, 299 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Sat 1 Feb 2020
at 20:58
  • msg #431

Re: TotOM Prep

Well, the second link doesn't work for me, but yes the whole exposed torso with heavy armor is a major what the heck moment. Although the stereotypical 'chainmail bikini' nonsense is even worse. It only works somewhat, with light armor that is meant to maximize flexibility and speed over protection.

It's worse in anime where people are running around with power suits and such that looks like chainmail bikinis with mech parts attached. They claim 'but with force fields who needs physical armor'... which ignores the fact those shields can fail in combat.
Amalar Sylvaranth
Player, 25 posts
Elemental Dancer
Amiable Drow
Thu 6 Feb 2020
at 21:32
  • msg #432

Re: TotOM Prep

Noting here for now.
Hunter: Roll 2 attacks, hit with the second attack (which means the one I *don't* add my mod to) and rolled 1 on dmg.
Amalar: Amalar hit and did 4 dmg which leaves wolf 2 with still 1 hp left
Mix: Will probably be ready to do anything Barby instructs (he would have attacked Wolf 3 for biting Barby, but Joe saved him that headache).

Holding off on actual post until Joe posts his turn since he finished off wolf3 and that effects how my characters react IC. But at least OOC is taken care of.
Margreve Narrator
Narrator, 36 posts
Sun 8 Mar 2020
at 13:08
  • msg #433

Re: TotOM Prep

Just a quick comment, ironically enough, the Hollow Man wouldn't have been using its Sickle vs the party just it's slam attack since it would only use its sickle vs the one the BBEG told it to decapitate. (No one else would be worthy of it's sickle in its mind.)
Timothius
GM, 388 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Tue 10 Mar 2020
at 06:08
  • msg #434

Re: TotOM Prep

I'm guessing the decapitatee would be a spoiler
Margreve Narrator
Narrator, 37 posts
Wed 11 Mar 2020
at 15:41
  • msg #435

Re: TotOM Prep

Not really a spoiler, just a specific villager each night until the BBEG gets a dozen severed heads... won't spoil what would happen if that occurs (as the BBEG isn't dead yet.)
Barbara Naur
Player, 50 posts
Wed 10 Jun 2020
at 04:52
  • msg #436

Re: TotOM Prep

So I made Barby as kindofa parody of the Mary Sue cartoon characters I grew up with.  "The prophesy said you're the only one who can stop the ancient evil destined to threaten the whole world in your lifetime!  And... you're mechanically no more special than the random adventurers you'll wind up relying on for survival..."

Inadvertently broke the rule of, "The Chosen One should never wrestle with the weight of responsibility of saving the world."

Nevertheless, got a kick out of watching this vid on how to do The Chosen One right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuTQ0EpmnJo
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 460 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Wed 10 Jun 2020
at 05:02
  • msg #437

Re: TotOM Prep

Barbara Naur:
So I made Barby as kindofa parody of the Mary Sue cartoon characters I grew up with.  "The prophesy said you're the only one who can stop the ancient evil destined to threaten the whole world in your lifetime!  And... you're mechanically no more special than the random adventurers you'll wind up relying on for survival..."

Inadvertently broke the rule of, "The Chosen One should never wrestle with the weight of responsibility of saving the world."

Nevertheless, got a kick out of watching this vid on how to do The Chosen One right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuTQ0EpmnJo

I've enjoyed some fake chosen one cliches where you still save the world because you're the protagonist at least.

"So the guy you were supposedly the reincarnation of is still alive and living alone and cranky with the five minutes of voice work we could afford from Patrick Stewart. Our good cult is a sham!"

"That's fine, the big bad is actually scamming the evil cult of dark elves into thinking he's really an ancient human hating super mega high Elf that blew up the original ancient flying cars humanity."

"...Okay what-"
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:02, Wed 10 June 2020.
Mittens
GM, 1491 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 31 Aug 2020
at 02:37
  • msg #438

Re: TotOM Prep

Five Simple House Rules for Better Combat in Dungeons and Dragons 5e

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAO1aYhWZl0

"One of the things I loved about 4e that's missing from 5e..."

Over and over again.
Mittens
GM, 1492 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Mon 7 Dec 2020
at 05:05
  • msg #439

Re: TotOM Prep

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIUXmTl2vZA

Points covered include:  D&D has wiggle room for DM interpretation deliberately.  Rules as Written was never meant to cover every scenario and is therefore not the holy grail of optimization.  Examples of optimized tricks that players assume are legal, but are not, such as using the immovable object spell on enemy armor to freeze them in place.

I've never been fond of the "put bag into bag = black hole" mechanic, and would just house rule that part out of all the bag of holding style items rather than fuss with the tedium of making it inconvenient for players to 1-shot an elder dragon.
Elric
GM, 300 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Mon 7 Dec 2020
at 14:49
  • msg #440

Re: TotOM Prep

Well, the convenient thing about extradimensional spaces in extradimensional spaces is that you can save to resist/ignore the effect and most BBEG will often have legendary resistance so can't fail that save so long as they have charges of legendary resistance left.

But I agree a simpler solution is just a house rule such as any extradimensional space placed into another stops functioning and possibly dumping its contents out around the outside of the other extradimensional space or something like that.

They used to do something similar in Spelljammer since extradimensional spaces did NOT function in the void between crystal spheres (also divine spellcasting didn't work there either with few exceptions)
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:50, Mon 07 Dec 2020.
Barbara Naur
Player, 80 posts
Wed 2 Jun 2021
at 01:48
  • msg #441

Re: TotOM Prep

Margreve Narrator:
Dib had a Quirky Camper's Respite which is an uncommon magical rod. While a normal camper's respite only functions as a torch when lit as a rod, this Camper's Respite functions as a burning Alchemical Torch when its brazier is lit. Also while the brazier is lit, the wielder can freely use the Control Flames cantrip, which must have been how Dib prevented the Wagon of Doom from catching on fire.


Ah.  That makes sen...  Waaaait.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/control-flames

Casting Time
1 Action

You choose nonmagical flame that you can see within range and that fits within a 5-foot cube.

Option 1:  The magic item allows the wielder to freely use a modified version of the Control Flames cantrip that takes no action to use, works on magical flames, and can work on flames that fits within a (insert largest dimension of the wagon here) cube.

Option 2:  Retcon that the flames were extinguished repeatedly on not-Dib's turn.

I vote for Option 1 because that would be more fun.  And give it to Pyrus so he can play with fire all day.  :)
Amalar Sylvaranth
Player, 58 posts
Elemental Dancer
Amiable Drow
Wed 2 Jun 2021
at 23:00
  • msg #442

Re: TotOM Prep

Answers from Seth:

Effectively, he allowed the spell to be used thus on Dib's turn:
"Put out any and all fires during the round."

So while it took an action, the action applied all round.

The mass of the wagon could fit in a 5-foot cube, so he admitted he fudged it to work for mass more than area.

The fire we used was magical, but any flames after as a result of that were nonmagical.

So!

If we have a flammable wagon of doom, we can do the same thing Dib did. However, it will still take an action to keep the wagon not on fire throughout the round.

Personally, I don't have a problem with Pyrus having a rod that controls flames since that spell is usually pure flavor and is more utility than anything (which cohorts are allowed to do). Pyrus won't be allowed to use it as a weapon since cohorts are not allowed to be used in combat, but I don't really see him charging into combat with a 1d4 flaming stick anyway.
Barbara Naur
Player, 81 posts
Thu 3 Jun 2021
at 04:15
  • msg #443

Re: TotOM Prep

Amalar Sylvaranth:
we can do the same thing Dib did.


YAY.  I'm seeing a future combat where there's 11 billion fire bushes that all start fires and we would have been blamed for the property damage if not for the ultimate fire fighting stick.  :)
Mittens
GM, 1493 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Tue 13 Jul 2021
at 05:01
  • msg #444

Re: TotOM Prep

Can't decide what class to make Mits in Ancient Wounds.  I vaguely remember I was originally thinking of playing a swordlock way back in SiW's kickstarter.  But I'm technically playing that class in Jon's Skyhole game.  (I say technically since so far that place has been 99% RP and I can't even remember how much I liked swordlock's mechanics in combat.)

In 5e I've played paladin a couple times, wizard a couple times, cleric, fighter, bard, something that got slaughtered by a beholder at 1st level, barbarian / sorcerer, yadda yadda.

Guns and robots in fantasy world sounds like a cool setting.  So was thinking making Mits a robo cat.  With guns.  But then I see "depending on the gun you might be jamming every 6th shot or so" in some online thingy about 5e guns.  Granted, that's better than the standard nerd tendency for masochistic flubs that have the gun break or explode.

I dunno.  Maybe I should just bite the bullet and play another swordlock while reflavoring eldrich blast as laser eyes or shoulder cannon or whatever.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 463 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Tue 13 Jul 2021
at 15:05
  • msg #445

Re: TotOM Prep

Mittens:
Can't decide what class to make Mits in Ancient Wounds.  I vaguely remember I was originally thinking of playing a swordlock way back in SiW's kickstarter.  But I'm technically playing that class in Jon's Skyhole game.  (I say technically since so far that place has been 99% RP and I can't even remember how much I liked swordlock's mechanics in combat.)

In 5e I've played paladin a couple times, wizard a couple times, cleric, fighter, bard, something that got slaughtered by a beholder at 1st level, barbarian / sorcerer, yadda yadda.

Guns and robots in fantasy world sounds like a cool setting.  So was thinking making Mits a robo cat.  With guns.  But then I see "depending on the gun you might be jamming every 6th shot or so" in some online thingy about 5e guns.  Granted, that's better than the standard nerd tendency for masochistic flubs that have the gun break or explode.

I dunno.  Maybe I should just bite the bullet and play another swordlock while reflavoring eldrich blast as laser eyes or shoulder cannon or whatever.


The insane Binge Reads my collection of paid supplements and SiW house Rules results:

Oh my god according to the phrasing of Seth's house rules a Tasha's optional rules monk at lv 2 if you unlock prof on guns. (or vanilla supplements Kensei path at lv3... which would still be Best At Monk Guns and make guns extra magical and parry swords with your gun) can turn a single type of Non Heavy gun into a Monk weapon.

So Monk with SiW houserule firearm expertise feat, and slap a 1d10 six shooter revolver (with no misfire) into Mittens Monk hand if you don't want to just stick with a caster because E blast or the average 1d10 long range attack cantrip with stat DMG unlocked >>> all multishot guns in overall efficiency once you can add stat damage to them.

But for a monk, "1d10 revolver my feat lets me fire in melee or up to 90 feet away (105 if I pay for the 75 gold version)" it is a step up even at level 1 before applying monk BS to it and reloading wont want to make you kill yourself with a dex+gun feat build.

The downside of course, being "And then you don't get to cast any spells." if you go for gun monk. Not until lv3 if you pick elemental monk who can cast some elemental themed attacks/spells via ki points.
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:13, Tue 13 July 2021.
Mix
Player, 1 post
Thu 15 Jul 2021
at 21:39
  • msg #446

Re: TotOM Prep

here is my bullet point version (pun not intended):
-Dex Monk
-SiW homebrew gun feat
-Homebrew Bandolier
-Kensei later on



From Will:
Homebrew supplement revolvers Mittens would want to make use of are.

A: 50 gold. has light property.

b: 75 gold for +5 (1 tile) range and reroll 1's on damage once. But no light property.

Both are 1d10 and 6 ammmo. so best to stick with the light trait one juuuust in case it comes up for dual wield logic.
Mittens
GM, 1494 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Fri 16 Jul 2021
at 03:58
  • msg #447

Re: TotOM Prep

Thanks so much!  Robo-TENS is built!  Used Warforged Envoy.  Will have gun barrels for pigtails!  Detachable head rolls around like Star Wars' BB-8.  Or gets kicked around like a soccer ball.  Mouth conceals confetti launcher and silly-string nozzle.  Punchy-shooty combat style will be like Yang from RWBY.  Hoping to pick up various gundam-like things along the way like maybe rocket feet.  :3

Probably gunna go with retainer BG benefit again if only to have various robo sidekicks.  Can't think of a more fun BG benefit.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 464 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Fri 16 Jul 2021
at 19:13
  • msg #448

Re: TotOM Prep

Transcribing and describing traits of the two most desirable for "Just take my word for it" types of revolvers to pick from on a Monk Mittens.

Also rereading some fine print and noticing reloading will be slightly more finicky, but still not insane for a Monk (life would be a huge painful letdown for any dual wield pistol fighters though).

Pistol: (Just pistol, it doesn't have a Seth Houserule rename to make it brand loyalty to the Ptolus setting's guns).
1d10 Pierce. 30/90 Feet (6/18 tiles). 3 Lb, 50gp.
Ballistic, Handgun, Light, Magazine(6).

Heavy Pistol: (Called the Dragon Pistol for Ptolus brand loyalty stat replacements).
1d0 Pierce. 35/105 feet (7/19 tiles). 4 lb. 75gp.
Ballistic. Deadly. Handgun. Magazine(6).
[The heavy pistol does NOT have heavy trait. Notable for Monk specialty requirements later demands not a heavy weapon for declaring a gun a monk weapon at lv2 tashas rules/lv3 kensei path]


Light:
PHB Logic. Enables stock rules Two weapon fighting with a bonus action and no stat mod DMG for Light Melee and Light Melee Thrown.
(Meaning the fact hang crossbows are light is worthless future proofing keyword, because you can't two weapon fight with a hand crossbow, you need crossbow specific feat.
See also: you munchkin trying to dual wield throw a 1d4 dart instead of a more expensive but otherwise identical dagger! Darts are a RANGED weapon you can't do that!!!).

SiW/Equipment Guide logic 'Light' guns: See 'Handguns' below.

Handgun:
No disadvantage for shooting it at a hostile creature within 5 feet.
Light + Handgun = Allowed to use stock two-weapon fighting rules.
They do specify having a negative modifier means negative DMG mod
(Oh my god I can only imagine the turbo munchkinry 'My wizard has 8 DEX and 8 STR but I still demand no penalty on gun damage!' in playtesting to make them need to specify that in HOMEBREW print)


Magazine: Direct copy paste.
  A firearm with this property can hold up to the number of rounds listed parenthetically after this weapon property. Without this property, a firearm can load only one round at a time per barrel.
  As an action, you can load a number of cartridges, shotshells, or slugs equal to your Dexterity modifier (minimum of 1) into the magazine of a firearm you are holding.
  As a bonus action, you can load a single cartridge, shotshell, or slug into the magazine of a firearm you are holding, regardless of Dexterity or other factors.

TL;DR: 16 DEX Mittens with SiW guns feat can-
  Standard: Reload up to 6 (7 with bandoleer or ammo belt) bullets into a gun magazine, up to gun's max ammo capacity. (Without the feat it would be only 3/4 bullets as a standard action).

  Bonus: Reload 2 bullets into a gun magazine, up to a gun's max magazine capacity. (1 without SiW feat). Bandoleer and ammo belt do not help oops.

  Magazine trait matters not just for "reloading and ammo capacity doesn't suck as much" but also every magazine gun on the chart seth is using does not have misfire trait or problems getting wet by default. Seth adding homebrew arcane accelerators is more for the benefit of "Type 2 oldschool multi barrel fantasy shotguns with big boy 3d8-3d10 damage"


Deadly:
5th ed style "Reroll damage rolls of 1, once." Which is less of a headache with a single 1 dice weapon.


Ammo Bandoleer and Ammo Belt (1 gold for ammo bandoleer, 2 silver for ammo belt)

Bandoleers can carry 50 ammo each. Belt can carry 30 ammo. (can be a mix of all the  firearms ammo. I Mittens case 100% pistol ammo unless Seth gives you super alchemy ammo or magic bullets).
Only grants the +1 to standard action reloads if you are not wearing more than 2 bandoleers, and not more than one belt.

Fine Print: Ammo bandolier and belt only help with STANDARD action reload, not bonus action. "When using an action to load-"etc.

So as a 16 DEX(+3) minimum starting build plus SiW gun expert feat. Mittens is too fast to benefit from the bonus on a standard action (up to 7 bullets for guns that can only hold 6), and it does not help with bonus action.

(The item is still very useful for a "Type 2 multi barrel mega gun with standard reload only" build or Type3 repeater build that holds up to 7/10 ammo.).


Ballistic: 8 miles of text.

You can use a firearm that has the ballistic property to make a ranged attack only if it is loaded with ammunition. Each time you attack with the firearm, you expend one piece of ammunition. This means a combination of a load (a ball or a weight of shot pellets) and a charge (a measured weight of gunpowder). Alternately, a cartridge of any kind constitutes a piece of ammunition.
A firearm without the magazine weapon property can load only a single piece of ammunition in each of its barrels. If you run out of ammunition, you cannot make additional attacks with the weapon, even if you have a feature that allows you to make additional attacks with that action, bonus action, or reaction. You must reload the firearm before you can use it again.
Weapons with this property require two hands to reload. Reloading a piece of ammunition (powder from a horn and a bullet), requires an action. Barrel-loaded firearms with multiple barrels require each to be reloaded separately. The addition of the magazine property can quicken this process, as described below.
Weapons with this property have two ranges shown in parentheses. The first is the weapon’s normal range in feet, and the second indicates the weapon’s maximum range. When attacking a target beyond normal range, you have disadvantage on the attack roll. You can’t attack a target beyond the weapon’s long range.
If you use a weapon that has the ballistic property to make a melee attack, you treat the weapon as an improvised weapon (see “Improvised Weapons” later in this chapter).


TL;DR:
The main thing you care about is the explicit "You need two hands to reload a gun".

This is not a big deal for a monk with a revolver with 5th ed "EVERYONE has quick draw!" logic. Because if you are too far to punch that means you are spending your bonus action to load exactly as many shots you can shoot that round anyways.

But it is another nail in the coffin of martials getting any benefits to live for compared to casters, semi-magical warriors, and"NPCs who live only hurt you before they die now get to use homebrew weapons for the job" (or would if Seth didn't promise literal years ago to never have enemies shoot us with homebrew guns in SiW before so much as entertaining the thought of putting guns in SiW)


Final TL;DR:

Build Pistol Monk Mittens as you were already expecting. Just remember you can only reload 2 shots per bonus action (up from one, thanks to SiW gun feat), not 3 like my initial once over expectations.

(Bandoleer is only +1 ammo for standard action reloads. DEX build + SiW Gun feat lets you full reload a 6 shot revolver with a standard action naturally.)

Pack a cheap staff just in case (which can be 1 hand wielded like a 1d6 club in 5th ed too) for when your action economy can't afford to reload but you still want to deal more than 1d4 punch melee damage.

Pistol: (Just pistol, it doesn't have a Seth Houserule rename to make it brand loyalty to the Ptolus setting's guns).
1d10 Pierce. 30/90 Feet (6/18 tiles). 3 Lb, 50gp.
Ballistic, Handgun, Light, Magazine(6).
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:21, Fri 16 July 2021.
Ancient Wounds Narrator
Narrator, 5 posts
Mon 19 Jul 2021
at 00:16
  • msg #449

Re: TotOM Prep

Actually, I guess my original interpretation of the Ammunition Bandoleer (of which you can benefit from up to 2 at once) and the Ammunition Belt applying to the Bonus Action reload is a house rule... as it wasn't until Will pointed it out that I realized that as written it doesn't apply. I have no qualms with it applying to bonus action reloads, which will mean you could reload up to 8 rounds with a bonus action and up to 8+twice your dex mod with a standard action. I'll update the necessary thread to include that rule.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 465 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Tue 20 Jul 2021
at 04:32
  • msg #450

Re: TotOM Prep

An initial once over on a pile of feats (and warlock invocations a cleric or paladin would qualify for via invoke feat).

Both zerry and lucy with a revision would have one stat pick and one feat pick to add to their current stuff.

Mobile would be +10ft speed and make zerry an absurd 80ft (16 tiles) speed.

Heavy armor master: +1 STR and resist 3 mundane physical (blunt slash pierce) harm.

Ye olde mage initiate for 2 cantrips and a lv1 single use a day spell.

Observant for zerry?

Skill expertise: Any race can take this one (as zerry can't take prodigy, and lucy can't take prodigy twice).
+1 any stat.
+1 skill.
+1 expertise to a proficient skill.

Resilient: +1 Any stat and gain prof bonus to save throws on that stat.
(for example, +1 dex to unlock prof on dex saves)

Skilled; +3 skill prof

Fighting style (fighter legal style only) if you think more would help, such as the blanker +1 AC when wearing armor feat. or duelist for if lucy ever hits something with melee again this decade.

Telekinetic:
+1 mental stat (wis, cha, int)
Learn special mage hand that is invisible, no verbal component (if you already know mage hand somehow, also +30ft extra range)
Grants a bonus action within 30 feet to push/pull something. Save throw based on chosen metal stat gain

Tough: +2 HP per level retroactive.

Weapon master (which I saw lucy eying): +1 str or dex, and +4 simple or martial weapon profs.

War caster: holy classes don't worry about the spell focus elements, but ADV on concentrate plys "allowed to make AoO with a single target cantrip or slot spell with an action use type".

Seth loves sentinel. While I'm more iffy on it not due to AoO's essentially never happen and the reaction attack is very hit and miss with the usual enemy placements. But would trigger for flanking helpers. (if you are within 5 feet of an enemy attacking ONLY someone else, who also does NOT have sentinel too. Then you can reaction to make a melee attack)


Warlock invokes everybody loves while hating to actually invest in being a warlock.

Devil's sight: the infamous 120 feet of magical grade 'see in magical darkness' darkvision.

Eyes of the rune keeper: the "read all writing" trait we have house ruled to be universal translator including spoken. So in Seth land, linguist feat is now obselete.

Gift of the depths: gain water breathing and swim speed of your walk speed.
"Zerry also climb water!"

At will disguise self. (Mix would probably love this to double up on top of racial shapeshifting)

Because party is lv 10. Lv9 req "at will cast speak with dead" invoke.
Mittens
GM, 1495 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Tue 20 Jul 2021
at 05:27
  • msg #451

Re: TotOM Prep

was not aware you could pick up warlock goodies with a feat.  which one is that?
Elric
GM, 301 posts
Elric is not currently in
an active thread.
Wed 21 Jul 2021
at 08:25
  • msg #452

Re: TotOM Prep

The Eldritch Adapt feat from Tasha's lets you take a single invocation, although if it requires a warlock level you can only select that invocation if you have that many warlock class levels.
Mittens
GM, 1496 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Tue 14 Sep 2021
at 07:20
  • msg #453

Re: TotOM Prep

Having fun with Mits.  And Kensai is cool.  But I'm finding that the propensity for narrow hallway combat is making the "spend a bonus action to gain d4 extra damage on your 1 attack" feel like it's going to be all mits ever does.  (Granted, I wasn't expecting the gun-fu concept to be hamstringed with "you must be in a wide open room in order to do the -fu part" when I originally took the first step down this path.)

Which brings me to other idea:  Way of the Four Elements has this as an option...

Fangs of the Fire Snake
When you use the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki point to cause tendrils of flame to stretch out from your fists and feet. Your reach with your unarmed strikes increases by 10 feet for that action, as well as the rest of the turn. A hit with such an attack deals fire damage instead of bludgeoning damage, and if you spend 1 ki point when the attack hits, it also deals an extra 1d10 fire damage.

Mits is stuck behind frontliner.  Spends ki point to start punching with fire.  Punch, ki-point flurry of blows, punch, punch.

Compare to: shoot + d4.

So my question is...  Exactly how many more narrow hall combats can we expect?  'cause if Mits isn't going to be a frontliner, Kensai's "+2 AC" and monk's "punch as a bonus action" features are gunna collect dust.

Other option i've read for gaining multiple reach attacks is using a whip + Ki-Fueled Attack.
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 466 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Tue 14 Sep 2021
at 08:50
  • msg #454

Re: TotOM Prep

Mittens:
Having fun with Mits.  And Kensai is cool.  But I'm finding that the propensity for narrow hallway combat is making the "spend a bonus action to gain d4 extra damage on your 1 attack" feel like it's going to be all mits ever does.  (Granted, I wasn't expecting the gun-fu concept to be hamstringed with "you must be in a wide open room in order to do the -fu part" when I originally took the first step down this path.)

Which brings me to other idea:  Way of the Four Elements has this as an option...

Fangs of the Fire Snake
When you use the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki point to cause tendrils of flame to stretch out from your fists and feet. Your reach with your unarmed strikes increases by 10 feet for that action, as well as the rest of the turn. A hit with such an attack deals fire damage instead of bludgeoning damage, and if you spend 1 ki point when the attack hits, it also deals an extra 1d10 fire damage.

Mits is stuck behind frontliner.  Spends ki point to start punching with fire.  Punch, ki-point flurry of blows, punch, punch.

Compare to: shoot + d4.

So my question is...  Exactly how many more narrow hall combats can we expect?  'cause if Mits isn't going to be a frontliner, Kensai's "+2 AC" and monk's "punch as a bonus action" features are gunna collect dust.

Other option i've read for gaining multiple reach attacks is using a whip + Ki-Fueled Attack.


While I can't speak for hallway zone life?

A big reason I shilled for Kensei is because it would have been entirely mandatory for Gunslinger Monk Mittens, until Tasha's optional rules came along to allow you to declare a single (not heavy, not special) gun a monk weapon.

ALSO! 1d4 Whips are obsolete for Mittens, because you have a 1d10 pistol that works in melee range.

That said? Because of your desires, and due to Tasha's and GUNS easing up the reasons you would "Need" kensei? Then my current runner up Not kensei suggestion to mittens would be Astral Self. Because that is the most economical "Punch past your ally in a hallway" path. But we will get back to that.


The big deal about Kensei aside from "more than one weapon to add as a monk weapon!", is that the initial perks do not cost ki points. They are free to use at will.

Meanwhile, the example of elemental path fire fists is a huge ki point hog for... reach that only lasts a single turn. For only your fists. For still baby 1d4 punch damage early on. And tempts you to spend even more ki points so the damage is bigger. Instead of spending it on bonus action dodge, the new tashas extra damage, etc.

Even though they are short rest recharge, for a long time you will have hardly any ki points to play with. 1 per monk level. So you would hardly be able to solve your problems at all with elemental path.

In turn, your attraction to whips earlier is another reason I shilled for Kensei. Whips are not monk weapons, and Tashas optional rules only lets you pick ONE extra monk weapon, not two. So while you could do Whip monk without kensei thanks to Tashas? Without Kensei, Mittens would have to give up her Gun if she wanted to make whip her monk weapon instead.

Also even with a whip? In a campaign where guns do not exist? You would still be sad in the hallways because only the whip has reach, not your punches/flurry.


This leads us to Astral Self. The initial unlock at lv3 is what would actually give you what you want for crowded hallway punching.


Arms of the Astral Self

3rd-level Way of the Astral Self feature

Your mastery of your ki allows you to summon a portion of your astral self. As a bonus action, you can spend 1 ki point to summon the arms of your astral self. When you do so, each creature of your choice that you can see within 10 feet of you must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take force damage equal to two rolls of your Martial Arts die.

For 10 minutes
these spectral arms hover near your shoulders or surround your arms (your choice). You determine the arms’ appearance, and they vanish early if you are incapacitated or die. While the spectral arms are present, you gain the following benefits:

    *You can use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Strength modifier when making Strength checks and Strength saving throws.
    *You can use the spectral arms to make unarmed strikes.
    *When you make an unarmed strike with the arms on your turn, your reach for it is 5 feet greater than normal.
    *The unarmed strikes you make with the arms can use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Strength or Dexterity modifier for the attack and damage rolls, and their damage type is force.


Lasts ten minutes (usually the entire fight).
Makes your unarmed attacks have 5ft reach, and count as force damage.
This means your flurry of blows also has reach. Because those are listed as "make more monk unarmed strikes"

Monk Gun means you can shoot with a 1d10 gun from behind an ally, then ghost punch past someone.
Monk whip means 1d4 whip can reach 1 tile past an ally, good job? And then ghost punch past someone.

So.

TL;DR:

A: Kensei is mandatory if you want BOTH a Gun to count as a monk weapon, AND A whip to count as a monk weapon. Because whip can't chain into monk unarmed/flurry of blows unless it counts as monk weapon, and Tasha's optional rules only lets you pick ONE weapon as "This now counts as a monk weapon".

Also, only the whip would have reach. So your punches still would not make it past allies in a hallway crowd.

B: Astral Self >> whips, with or without a Gun, for a monk who wants to punch people in a crowded hallway than ki hogs like elemental.

As then Tashas optional rules for Gun=monk weapon, so you can still do cool monks stuff with your gun. While Astral self's starting power is bonus action 1 ki point for TEN MINUTES of "floating ghost hands with 5 ft reach that count as force damage (oh and can use WIS for strength checks and saves in this mode)" so even your flurry of blows has reach. This, BETTER THAN WHIP INTO FLURRY. Where only the whip would have reach, and flurry would not.

Monk whip with flurry. Only the 1d4 whip has reach, your unarmed the flurry punches do not. So only the whip would reach past allies.

Monk with astral fists. Your 1d4 ghost fists have reach. So your unarmed/flurry of blows can now reach past allies. After you shoot your 1d10 gun past your allies.

...Also, you have a GUN, that works in melee range without penalty. Which makes whip obsolete.

C: elemental ki fire fists is a resource hog you will get to use like, twice, that only lasts a single turn, and then have no ki points to dodge or do other cool things with. (And all the coolest stuff like "Wow! Monk can learn fireball!" is delayed until lv 11 anyways).


For your current demands of wanting to be able to unarmed/flurry past allies in a crowd better? Astral Path.

A pistol makes whip for reach on your weapon attack obsolete, and if you really wanted a whip you would need to give up guns working with monk stuff unless you took Kensei.

Also astral self (eventually, at level 11+) starts stacking damage extras to your ghost unarmed. But until then the primary perk is a dirt cheap 1 ki point per encounter "flurry has reach now holy @##%"
This message was last edited by the GM at 08:55, Tue 14 Sept 2021.
Mittens
GM, 1497 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Tue 14 Sep 2021
at 22:10
  • msg #455

Re: TotOM Prep

In reply to Joe Darkthorne (msg # 454):

Oh wowzers!  That's infinitely better!  Thanks a zillion for the suggestion!  Even better flavor wise...  "You determine the arms’ appearance"

that's gunna be sooo much fun!  XD
Timothius
GM, 390 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Sat 18 Sep 2021
at 19:05
  • msg #456

Re: TotOM Prep

I used astral self for a level 9 one shot of Tomb of Annihilation. Worked wonders!
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 467 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Sun 19 Sep 2021
at 04:57
  • msg #457

Re: TotOM Prep

Timothius:
I used astral self for a level 9 one shot of Tomb of Annihilation. Worked wonders!

Ah, the joys of "Frequently reduce your flaws instead of occasionally buffing you" meta.

One of the most 'people might look crazy calling you OP for taking your Entirely Normal Turn' of metas.
Mittens
GM, 1498 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Wed 2 Feb 2022
at 04:17
  • msg #458

Re: TotOM Prep

Wanting to flavor up a familiar for Pyrus in a different game.  Most of his extended family was murdered, so his familiar will be a flaming skull that looks like a kobold skull.  (Kinda important to have immune fire familiar 'cause Pyrus is an AoE fire sorc.)

Question is: how do I stat that out?  I remember us talking about it and figured it'd be a simple web search away to get the answer, but instead I find a whole lotta nothing.  Are there better options for creepy fire immune familiar?
Joe Darkthorne
GM, 468 posts
Everyone suspects a Rogue
Few suspect the Ranger
Wed 2 Feb 2022
at 22:41
  • msg #459

Re: TotOM Prep

Mittens:
Wanting to flavor up a familiar for Pyrus in a different game.  Most of his extended family was murdered, so his familiar will be a flaming skull that looks like a kobold skull.  (Kinda important to have immune fire familiar 'cause Pyrus is an AoE fire sorc.)

Question is: how do I stat that out?  I remember us talking about it and figured it'd be a simple web search away to get the answer, but instead I find a whole lotta nothing.  Are there better options for creepy fire immune familiar?


Off the top of my head, without reaching to homebrew supplements or house rules.

You need to be a chain pact warlock and then take Imp which is allowed for chain pact warlock opening that option.

Which expands their legal list to Imp (fire immune, can turn invisible, immune to non magical attacks physical because haha devil). Pseudodragon (not immune). Quasit (not immune to fire), and a sprite (not immune to fire).

Which is one of the million cases of "Warlock is OP! And by that I mean I would like the one nice thing only a warlock can have for my more optimal player class setup please!" everyone rushing to cherry pick Warlock traits for their non purist warlock/not the least bit warlock.

As a reminder, Preston the flying snake is house ruled in. Because Ben is not a pact warlock, and flying snake isn't on any of those lists anyways. Though the fact I'm not chain pact means that is just essentially "Owl with blindsight instead of Advantage on good perc checks". So as always, my brand of homrbrew BS is still more fair than vanilla options.

So the fast option: Play a pact of the chain warlock with an Imp familiar reflavored as a spooky skull. Enjoy immunity to fire, poison, and all non magical physical attacks. Resistance and advantage vs magic anyways. magical darkvision. at will invisibility. 3d6 poison sting. and can polymorph into a rat or spider for giggles.

Pros: Right out of the box vanilla PHB rules BS.

Cons: "Hey remember that time Will picked a book imp and the GM immediately made it evil because obviously an imp familiar would work for satan not the player." meta risks unless you are sure the GMs involved are over that sort of thing these days.


I might be missing something at the moment, but the quick glance at the official "yes I paid for this" warlock page on beyond just rattles off the PHB 'if you are a chain pact, then-' options.

Fastest non PHB options I googled was "People hype up volo's saying 'crawling claw and-' but that noted it was meant for NPCs not players" and.. I don't think a flying monkey, horned rabbit, winged cat, are immune to fire. An abyssal chicken might be?

Treyssm (A winged cat) from storm king's thunder. With "If the GM lets you" fine print literally on their page. (seth enjoys flying kitty).
Abyssal chicken from a baulder's gate supplement. Only resists fire and is a flesh monster.
Almiraj (rabbit with a unicorn horn?) from tomb of annihilation.
Flying monkey from tomb of annihilation.


Otherwise unless I'm forgetting something obvious/very new. Whatever homebrew or houserules you decided are okay for the campaign. Again, preston is a house rule.

So if you are worried about fairness, a noncombat familiar that can't farm out "technically it isn't an attack!" beyond aid other abilities? Just having fire immunity is basically nothing. It is only an issue if you want your familiar to spam 'It drops a firebomb on the enemy technically not an attack' rather than not thinking about frying them with your own spells.
This message was last edited by the GM at 23:10, Wed 02 Feb 2022.
Ben (SiW)
player, 1 post
Thu 31 Mar 2022
at 01:02
  • msg #460

Re: TotOM Prep

Ancient Wounds Narrator:
Ironically with the minibomb magnum pistol the javelin of lightning seems redundant, and the claw tattoo doesn't mesh well with your astral form, but the insignia of claws is pretty similar for the +1to hit and damage. And the insignia doesn't require attunement, unlike the tattoo. So that is probably a better option.
I also remember Will complaining about how the ring of freedom isn't that good since it does NOTHING against nonmagical means like poisons or critter abilities.

So what is mittens mostly wanting?
More offense? The insignia of claws world well for that in melee. The minibomb magnum already gives you pretty good ranged attack options. And astral form gives you melee reach.
More defense? Bracers of defense or the mantle of spell protection are nice options as is the cloak of displacement.

Also if it is more of a capability you want to gain or improve I could always come up with a custom item if needed, or possibly find a leger item you may not realize exists. Like one that ups your DC for ki and class abilities.


Replying to this in the OOC thread to keep my "Technically accurate rambling" out of the shopping updates thread.

Seth has it right about my personal experience catching the gotcha on Ring of free movement (or Ring of Free Action, in this case you need exact words).

It ignores difficult terrain (Good, but spider climb cheats past a lot of that.)
But the big eye catching anti paralyze and restrained... calls out that it works specifically on MAGIC causes.

So even ignoring "Well, it's just realistic that the web created from the web spell does not count as magical so there" Self styled fair storytellers are the biggest munchkins meta.  Literal actual natural spider webs, plant monsters, "Haha this monster has an eat you attack", 99% of paralyzing touch, kobold gadget spam, etc. No help there.


Ben the professional Bird Snake letter service and magical coward Armchair Advice corner:

1: Keep the Spider climb.

Super worth it on a Monk. They have already proven their ability to bypass terrain gimmicks meant to screw over melee players, and they will keep doing so. Right now, At will spider climb is huge, "Don't drop unless your build needs to do so to not die" huge.

As much because Level 9 monk only gets "During your turn you have wall run and water walk, the second your turn ends you fall down/sink if you are not back on the ground" otherwise.


2: Cool Punches for a Cool Mittens. Also insignia Seth said.

Normally I would favor some kind of monk legal melee weapon over punch gains because Stock punch gains are horrible with or without magic weapon (but even the most powerful magic javelin or spear in the world, 5th ed does not have them return to wielder because that would be too 4th edition! Good thing we have house rules that all thrown magic weapons return to user).

But, thankfully for both Monk mechanical reasons and Mittns like punching preference, we already have the starting basis of a punch upgrade tree item. The cold punchy fists. It would be totally worth to make those attune grade (unless they already were, in which case make them a scaling item like Ben's burny gloves).

Mittens has a homebrew gun that is monk legal due to tasha's rules interactions with homebrew rules anyways so don't gotta worry about pity javelins or a Shortbow (Can't tasha's rules a longbow, those are heavy tag).


3: Monks want Bracers More than Cloak... But also A tarrasque skin biker jacket isn't technically armor.

We are lucky enough, to be rich enough, to afford rare magic items (and also lucky enough the GM won't go maximum price is realistic!).  But ALSO, given half the party is already getting specialty biopunk materials for their outfit upgrades. It would be a safe and guilt free bet to give Mittens a No Attune Needed +1 AC Not Armor.

Monk AC gains are normally a huge pain, no matter how many times people say "But at level 19 if you spend every single stat up level on DEX and WIS, AND you started with at least 16/14 DEX/WIS, because at level 19 you finally have the same AC as mundane full plate and a shield, that makes you a TANK at level 3."

When I shill for cloak of defense over the bracers, that isn't just because of price tag range or "And also +save". That is because I give it to characters who have heavy armor, or medium armor, or are a fighter fast tracking light armor AC to not be trash ASAP with "20 DEX at level 6".

A monk needs raw AC gains more because they have to deal with being a bathrobe class long term in ways a wizard does not.
Mittens
GM, 1500 posts
Shifter
change job kupopopo!
Thu 31 Mar 2022
at 02:49
  • msg #461

Re: TotOM Prep

> javelin of lightning seems redundant,

I don't recall all the things that minibomb magnum pistol does.  DOES it shoot bombs?  'cause that'd be SWEET!

> the insignia doesn't require attunement

Yay!  Putting that on wish list, then!

>  ring of freedom isn't that good since it does NOTHING against nonmagical means

Is there a way to upgrade it so that it does?  I haz rocket boots, so not terribly worried about mobility so much as "this spell/ bug spit/ monster thing makes it so you lose your turn."

> So what is mittens mostly wanting?  More offense? More defense?

sure?  But outside being on par with the rest of the team defense/offense wise so I'm not a drag, main thing I was aiming for with robo gun mittens was integrating all the cool gadgets that a warforged can integrate.  A wrist compartment for a lightsaber?  Yes!  Fire extinguisher that pops out of your tail?  Sounds fun!  Hand transforms into a spiked ball on a chain!  Megatron eat your heart out!  Only thing is I've got no idea what all gadgets are up for grabs.  There a robo sears catalogue somewhere?

> 1: Keep the Spider climb.
Really?  Even though Mits has rocket feet?  (Winged boots)  Seemed redundant.

>3: A tarrasque skin biker jacket

I'M SOLD!  Do want!
This message was lightly edited by the GM at 02:50, Thu 31 Mar 2022.
Ben (SiW)
player, 2 posts
Thu 31 Mar 2022
at 03:18
  • msg #462

Re: TotOM Prep

Mittens:
> javelin of lightning seems redundant,

I don't recall all the things that minibomb magnum pistol does.  DOES it shoot bombs?  'cause that'd be SWEET!

> the insignia doesn't require attunement

Yay!  Putting that on wish list, then!

>  ring of freedom isn't that good since it does NOTHING against nonmagical means

Is there a way to upgrade it so that it does?  I haz rocket boots, so not terribly worried about mobility so much as "this spell/ bug spit/ monster thing makes it so you lose your turn."

> So what is mittens mostly wanting?  More offense? More defense?

sure?  But outside being on par with the rest of the team defense/offense wise so I'm not a drag, main thing I was aiming for with robo gun mittens was integrating all the cool gadgets that a warforged can integrate.  A wrist compartment for a lightsaber?  Yes!  Fire extinguisher that pops out of your tail?  Sounds fun!  Hand transforms into a spiked ball on a chain!  Megatron eat your heart out!  Only thing is I've got no idea what all gadgets are up for grabs.  There a robo sears catalogue somewhere?

> 1: Keep the Spider climb.
Really?  Even though Mits has rocket feet?  (Winged boots)  Seemed redundant.

>3: A tarrasque skin biker jacket

I'M SOLD!  Do want!


Your new Pistol Seth has been regaling me and the group chat over the development before posting in the new post adventure shopping thread does indeed have a mini-launcher, yes. It is super hot (and cold, and thunderous, and lasery).

I didn't even know that particular insignia existed either as it is one of the more out there supplements, handy it does!

Ring of freedom is still eats an attune slot, which is just another argument for why both spider climb or your talk of rocket boots beat it.

Good point on "Why keep spider climb when could have rocket boots?". Spider climb is Always on. To be fair part of my mindset is also "tinfoil hat proven true" meta. In a seth campaign you can actually trust Winged boots long term, so yeah that is actually a good trade up. I also forgot they don't have action economy fine print, which is great.

As for Mittens Sears Catalogue thoughts. Well, you sure are in the right group for that. Though Mittens needs to be alive to use shoulder mounted hotdog toaster. So attune slot wise priorities of Primary Offense/DC save on enemy Quota, Defense Quota, third thing is still a thing.

Though given you already have cold weapon themed punch gloves, that is an easy bet for a "Sure throw it in" fire extinguisher toy, probably. We threw in "So weak it basically counts as free" control flames cantrip onto Ben's gloves after all.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:19, Thu 31 Mar 2022.
Ancient Wounds Narrator
Narrator, 13 posts
Thu 31 Mar 2022
at 05:46
  • msg #463

AW between modules ooc chat

Actually, I had been pondering a Tarrasque skin GI/uniform that would have a +2 AC like the bracers maintain the spider climb via selective stickiness reverse engineered from the adhesion gloves and grant resistance to thunder and acid. This item will require attunement.
This message was last edited by the player at 05:52, Thu 31 Mar 2022.
Timothius
GM, 392 posts
Paladin of Bahamut
Shifter (of sorts)
Mon 18 Dec 2023
at 02:56
  • msg #464

AW between modules ooc chat

Because Seth oft references this place, I believe it is safe. But putting an Anti-deletion post here anyway.
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