Might as well put this up while I'm thinking about it...

I personally think that a 'View as Player' option would be handy for a GM (or a mod) in a game, especially one that uses a lot of private messages, as I've often wondered to myself just what the post looks like without all the PMs in it. It could also be handy when you're dealing with a game with multiple threads and/or GMs, so you don't accidentally read any PMs they put in their posts for other players.

I'm not running a game at the moment but when I was helping run one, at times I had wished for just that.  Before I had read all the TOS I had thought one could do it with a 'mundane' account, but that flew out the window when I saw the 1 account per person.  Jase pointed out that for posts in public threads you can kind-of get the effect by logging out.

Actually, the effect could even be useful for players who have multiple players.  A drop-down that filters whom they are representing at the time.  [with the default being:All combined.]

Depending on how things are written, it might be easy to do, or it might be hard.  But I think the feature would be handy if implemented.

Oh that would be helpful. Sounds complicated to implement though.

Problem is as a GM you are held accountable for ALL content in the game.

They have been wary of anything that hides your full view of all content.

But you could still see all content if you want to.

Really, I don't think this feature should be viewed as blocking the GM from seeing any content like has been discussed.  On opening the game, it would/should ALWAYS default to full view, where everything is visible.

The GM would see all threads, all PL etc on entering any page by default.  But by accessing a drop-down list, could select any player, or character and see things based on if they were that individual.

With this suggestion:
Your GM enters their game,
  they see all the threads.
They wonder what I would see, and select Loreguard from the perspective drop-down,
  They see a list of the threads in groups 0, 1, and 2
They click on the newest non-notice thread,
  They see everything for the last 20 posts in that thread.
They want to know if I saw the monster around the corner several posts back:
They select Loreguard from the perspective drop-down,
  They see the last 20 posts as I would have seen them.
One of the posts has a link to the rules notice post, which they click on,
  They see everything in the rules post.
They select me from the perspective drop-down again.
  They see the rules, but all of the magic rules are gone, because they were part of a private line group for Magicians.

If you are worried about it, you might make when displaying from a Perspective, you might not have it modify the 'last read' timestamps of things, so they stay unread until read again.

With this, it would allow one to check things easily, but there would be NO legitimate danger of someone arguing that they couldn't be held responsible for the content.

Actually the perspective concept could also work for players, allowing them to somewhat quickly determine if something in the past was known by one of their characters, or both.

+1 from me for this - I have wished for similar things myself and nearly created a second account to do so - until I also re-read the TOS and saw that was not allowed. I currently have three games going and in the two established ones this feature would allow me to see what a certain character sees.

The way I see it as there is a dropdown menu where you can select a certian character and see what they would see - just makes it easier and more streamlined to make sure each is getting everything they should, and nothing they should not.

+1. If you are seriously worried that a GM will always be in "player mode" so as to avoid responsibility, well, that seems a little outlandish. Not to mention, they would still be exactly as responsible as if they were in GM mode but chose not to read any orange text. So as long as "I chose not to read it" is not an excuse for inappropriate content (and I'm guessing it's not), this feature shouldn't (and can't) keep a GM from doing their responsibilities.

Another +1.

+0

Doubt I would use this as I dont run PC vs PC games. I have private lines but its not really that complex. If the PL turned orange its in PL mode.

Rather see the development go toward something else. Like the private message sorting which was turned down in part for the must-see requirement.

+1

I would love this feature, it would be greatly useful.  But I am also for making it low priority.

   Definate +1 from me.

Wow, and to think I was tempted to not post this because I thought it was a dumb idea. I'm glad I didnt now.  :)

Definitely a cool idea, though not my highest priority.

+1 for both this and this.

+1 I would find this especially useful for viewing threads with multiple private lines to various parties.  Since the tiniest misspelling can make a private line public to everyone (but still look private to the author), I often would like to double check just how the page would appear to players A, B, or C.

Logging out will let me view things as they are seen by the public, but very few of my threads are publicly viewable anyway, so this is not a solution.

++

(Sorry, I've been thinking in code.)

The ability to view a post from different perspectives would be invaluable for GMs who like to use PLs frequently. With the recent addition of language filters, it's doubly important -- this would allow a GM to double-check a post to make sure each player is seeing it properly, and that they're not being denied information or seeing details that should be hidden.

Definitely have wished for this in the past.
+1

+1

It is a genius idea, i wish i came up with it >>

A player perspective option would be invaluable...like the oh so powerful 'Preview' Button. On a player level we can assure that our PLs to other players are properly seen and not missing...
This message was last edited by the user at 09:22, Tue 26 June 2012.

+1

Yes please.

Just to ask a quick question here... which player?

Since players can belong to different thread Groups and to different language Groups/Private Line Groups it's not going to be as simple as just temporarily removing the GM's viewing privileges.

It'll also mean specifying which player he needs to be able to see as.  For example, if the GM wants to check that all the PL's to the Elven Group are set up correctly, there's no sense switching to a player view that won't let him see those PLs, and if the player view can see all PLs anyway, then it's no different from the GM view.

LoreGuard already addressed this in post #6: The dropdown box doesn't say "Player/GM", it lists all the players.

I too would like this feature :)

+1

It would be nice to see the game as a player to make sure the editing and hidden notes are set up properly.

It also shows me what exactly they see if I assign them to Z group.

A +1 from me. It could definitely help if you ever have both a GM character set up alongside a Player character in the same game, or just multiple player characters, to help avoid posting in the wrong mindset.

+1

I was thinking of suggesting this myself :)

If I understand it right, Mods already have an option that lets them stop being Mods for a while while they go into the games they're playing in.  But I seem to remember once that they were saying it wasn't letting them step back up afterwards, so I don't know if they actually use it...grin  Could be a worry for setting this kind of thing up for GMs, though - if it glitches, the glitch is likely to be bad.


As I understand the reason people want this kind of thing, psychologically, they probably mostly do want to go to a player that won't let them see the Elven Group - a lot of times you just kind of want to make sure that only the right people are seeing things in the right way.  I've, um, heard, from...a friend, that sometimes, this friend of mine, has missed a letter or something in someone's name setting up a Private Line, and then the person that I...er, my friend...was sending it to, couldn't see it.  If the Preview button had a quick dropdown so that I could have said, "Preview as...", I could have checked that and noticed that.

Um, if, you know, I had been looking over my friend's shoulder.  Or she could have done it herself, even.  She's very independent like that.  Makes her own peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, too.

I don't know.  I'm not at all sure I'd take the time to review every post from every player's perspective, but I can think of times it'd be nice to double-check how it looked for someone in particular.  If it's doable, I'd give it a +1.

So +1, for the drop-down, single-message Preview-from-a-Player's-View option.

Being able to step back and look at the whole game from a specific Player's View... would be helpful, both psychologically and practically, for GMs running a PC, especially if they're doing it secretly.  It might even, as a side-effect, be a way for the GM to simulate said PC "logging in" in the Cast List without having to make a post for them, since I do know players sometimes do that.  But it sounds like lots more trouble, not just from the programming standpoint, but as the GM - a much bigger "step back", and with more potential for errors and complexity.  So I'm a +0 there.  Maybe even a -0.  (Which is still a zero, but, you know, leaning the other way.)

In reply to Utsukushi (msg # 27):

Your friend could avoid that PM issue by selecting the names from the drop down list provided, rather than trying to spell the names by hand.

+1 for me.

The situation where I would find it particularly useful is when I have a GM post that has several PMs clustered together within it - it becomes very difficult when writing it to imagine how it will look to players who don't see some or all of the PMs.  Especially if you don't want the people who don't get the PMs to see extra carriage returns or hints that they might be missing something...  It IS possible to work it out, but it would be sooooo much easier to simply select a player from a drop-down and hit preview....

My friend finds that drop-down menu out-of-the-way, and the popup text box distracting.  I mean, it's all very nice for what it does, but especially when I'm on a smaller screen, I have to scroll down even to get to that box, or the various coding links, and it's just easier to type it in myself^*.  The Preview button, on the other hand, is right next to the Post button, so I'm there anyway.  It's on the way.  I do still have to scroll down for it on a small screen, but that's not in the middle of a post, so it's not disruptive.

Anyway, my +1 is just that this seems like it could be useful sometimes, while I can't imagine when it would be actually harmful.  It's not awesome, like Language Groups, or being able to have private lines show as regular text.  For example.



<sup>*- It's important to be friends with yourself, right?  And yes, I do my own <sup><red>, too.  Also, yes, the thing about the peanut butter and jelly sandwiches is totally true.

...Well...alright.  Half-true.</sup>

I agree with Utsukushi on the use of tags. Having to select the auto-tag to make sure you get them correct is a downgrade (nor does it cover all situations), but the proposed feature would be an upgrade.

In the game I am GMing I keep a record of all the rolls and their results at the top of the post in a PM to the GM (myself). So the post can look, to me, quite complex. EG: during any social or physical combat as I see:


{Private to GM: GM-Bifford rolled 51 using 1d100 with rolls of 51. B4 evade. T=35.}

The bandit in front of ### goes to take a step forward to follow, but hesitates. He looks to his left where #### is standing over his trapped comrade, then he glances to the right to his leader who is clutching his leg, red life seeping out between his fingers.

Instructions as to which player is next up in the social/physical combat

(Private line to ###### text here)


So the ability to see the post from a PLAYERs perspective would be great as it gets rid of the top stuff and the PL if it isn't to that player. :)

Sam / Bifford

(square brackets replace with curly ones for this post)
This message was last edited by the user at 11:54, Wed 05 Sept 2012.

+1 for an easy way to 'preview' as a player.

That said, as a gm, you can see what the posts look like without private lines if you select the D/L option for a thread, and un-check 'show private lines'.

+1 from me too.

It's not an option that would necessarily be used often, but I remember times in the past when I couldn't see something was wrong with the threads because I was a GM, but the players could. I'd give specifics, but I don't remember exactly.

It could be a handy way for a player with GM privileges to play a character in a game with multiple GMs without seeing private lines, but as a GM I suppose they're meant to see everything if they're responsible for it.

Still, I think the option should perhaps be there for error-checking purposes.

+1

As GM it would be nice to be able to 'view board as...' with selection of players.

Especially during lengthy campaigns where there are a high number of threads, characters and players.

+1 from me. I'm curious as to the formatting, and what threads they can see. I run a bunch of adult games and the log out and view it as an outsider solution is not viable for me.

+1 from me, I would use this option constantly. I PM things to myself in battles and I PM to different players and sometimes multiple players very often.