Skald
 moderator, 483 posts
 Whatever it is,
 I'm against it
Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 05:41
Re: View as player x... Option.
Yes, it's come up before and definitely got support, but we've never really found a good way of tweaking the interface to do it (at least I think that's where we left it).

Discussion elsewhere raised the need to see player posts as one reason people set up multiple accounts, which got me thinking it'd be good to add the functionality if we could resolve the issues to remove at least once source of temptation.

This may all have been suggested last time, but at least as a starting point to kick off discussions again and hopefully find a resolution, howsabout once you hit preview the GM gets the following option under the top preview ...

Display as:  |        GM  |V|   | Preview |
               |   Char 1 |
               |   Char 2 |
               | Char etc |

Which displays the post to the GM as that character would see it in the preview.  Characters not in the group wouldn't be listed in the dropdown (which is a clue that they're in the wrong group anyway).

I think we'd have to remove the Post Message button that appears under the preview just leaving the Post Message button that appears under the edit post and change the current Preview button under the edit post to Update Preview once the preview is first displayed - that (at least visually) links the actual posting to what is in the edit post window.  Update preview to default to current selected character.

Gives initial screen of:

| Post here.                                         |
|                                                    |
|                                                    |

| Preview | | Post Message|

Which becomes the following when you hit Preview:

| Preview here.                                      |
|                                                    |
|                                                    |

Display as:  |        GM  |V|   | Preview |
               |   Char 1 |
               |   Char 2 |
               | Char etc |

| Post here.                                         |
|                                                    |
|                                                    |

| Update Preview | | Post Message|

Still sounds like a lot of work for jase (even assuming it's possible/desireable). :<
matthewfenn
 member, 336 posts
 www.nj-pbem.com
 Northern Journey PBeM DM
Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 10:26
Re: View as player x... Option.
I like it.  Good ideas Skald.
Evil Empryss
 member, 847 posts
 Potato is my favorite
 color of the alphabet
Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 10:42
Re: View as player x... Option.
I kinda like that preview idea, but I would not like to have to choose how I view it each time.  When I'm posting, it's usually from a mobile device and I use the preview button to check my color tags and such as I go.  Heck, even from my laptop having to tell the site each time that I want to view it as a GM would get real annoying, real quick.

I think a separate button for "Preview As:" would be better.  Heck, stick it in the same place as the "Insert a private line" option, available, but out of the way and completely optional instead of in your face every time you want to preview the post.  Then, once I'm looking at the post as the player would see it, let it be finalized from there with a Post Message button. If I have to keep going back and forth with the previews just to actually post it I don't think it would ever use it.
Chernobyl
 member, 109 posts
 Area of desolate waste,
 Mutation Central.
Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 13:12
Re: View as player x... Option.
I just came to this forum to post a request for this feature. Mainly as I am often interested in knowing if I have got the post looking right for the players (I use language groups a lot!)
Skald
 moderator, 484 posts
 Whatever it is,
 I'm against it
Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 13:36
Re: View as player x... Option.
I thought exactly the same thing, Emp ... my suggestion is for preview to default to GM view, so you'd be immediately able to post, reedit etc ... only changes to player view if you specifically select that.

So for those who don't use preview or want only GM preview, it shouldn't make any difference to the way things work now ... apart from the post button only showing under the edit area and losing a bit of screen real estate with the label and dropdown.

Also assumed that if you're viewing a player's view, then the reedit should stay in that player's view, on the basis that anything obvious that goes to all probably should have been picked up when it initially previewed in GM view, so your subsequent changes should relate to what the player sees ... won't be true in all cases, but I figure it's marginally less annoying to have to switch back to GM view than to constantly reselect a player view that you're trying to get right.
Evil Empryss
 member, 848 posts
 Potato is my favorite
 color of the alphabet
Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 13:48
Re: View as player x... Option.
I wouldn't force the preview option on people, even if its only preview as GM.  I'd have to have the post option from the initial edit screen to be willing to support that option.  Sometimes I'm in a hurry and I don't want to go through the preview screen, I just want to type and post quick.
Skald
 moderator, 485 posts
 Whatever it is,
 I'm against it
Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 14:02
Re: View as player x... Option.
Oh yes, I wasn't looking to lose the initial post message option ... hasn't changed from existing layout -  just type and post without preview - per piccy above, there's still the post message direct option:

Gives initial screen of:

| Post here.                                         |
|                                                    |
|                                                    |

| Preview | | Post Message |

Suggestion just expands on preview for those who want it, or when you want it. :>
Evil Empryss
 member, 849 posts
 Potato is my favorite
 color of the alphabet
Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 14:04
Re: View as player x... Option.
Ah, okay then.  Me likey.  :-)
Grimmond
 member, 163 posts
 Antler-care by LIV THATCH
 "RALPH" The Wonder Llama
Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 17:18
Re: View as player x... Option.
I am just shooting from the hip here, but I have seen a "delay post" option somewhere ? Could that function be used to "move" the thread to a "limbo" or working thread, that when vied, even as the GM, it only appears as the players would see it ? Then there could be a POST button there or a BACK TO EDIT button.

Keep in mind I don't know what the delay button does ... but I think I have seen it here.
Utsukushi
 member, 1277 posts
 I should really stay out
 of this, I know...but...
Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 18:26
Re: View as player x... Option.
All Delay Post does is set a timer, and then posts your message when the countdown is done... the post actually has to be kept open on your computer in the meantime, so it doesn't move it to any kind of limbo, purgatory, Niflheim, or.. any of the otherworldly planes, actually.  grin

It's really just so if a GM is posting as a PC that they don't want the other PCs to know is being played by the GM, they can set that and go to bed and have the post pop up during a period that their players (canny sorts that we are!) know for a fact is solidly inside the GM's down-time.  I'm not sure how it reacts with the `New Post' warning, now, if somebody else posts something in the meantime.
Grimmond
 member, 164 posts
 Antler-care by LIV THATCH
 "RALPH" The Wonder Llama
Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 18:33
Re: View as player x... Option.
Ahhh ... sneaky buggers we GMs are ... another tool to keep my players guessing ... lol.
PrettyBirdie1
 member, 161 posts
 Bird-brained
 bird lover.
Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 21:00
Re: View as player x... Option.
That option sounds nice, but what about another player's post? If they do a private line that looks off to you, and you need to see it from a different player's perspective?

I think a better solution would be to have the "view as" button inside the thread, next to the "edit thread" button. That way all posts could be viewed in the thread format, whether you had posted them or not.
Grimmond
 member, 165 posts
 Antler-care by LIV THATCH
 "RALPH" The Wonder Llama
Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 21:03
Re: View as player x... Option.
If "they" post it ... isn't it "their" problem ? I mean editing a players post as a GM is not kosher to some.
PrettyBirdie1
 member, 163 posts
 Bird-brained
 bird lover.
Thu 5 Dec 2013
at 02:29
Re: View as player x... Option.
I mean if they are accidentally revealing important plot information - you wouldn't want to just call it "their problem". You'd want to go in and edit.

Another advantage of doing that would be to allow you to see multiple posts at once.
AlchemiaCure
 member, 45 posts
 Honestly my Alchemy is
 some of the best there is
Thu 5 Dec 2013
at 02:46
Re: View as player x... Option.
I third the opinions of Prrettybirdie.
Skald
 moderator, 486 posts
 Whatever it is,
 I'm against it
Thu 5 Dec 2013
at 12:55
Re: View as player x... Option.
Not sure what you're getting at, PrettyBirdie1 ... surely the GM will see all private messages posted by players, so would know whether the Private Line syntax was correct by the change in text colour, Private to: text and so on, so they could see if it was visible to all without previewing for a specific player ?  And if they've got the name wrong, it'll still be private and look private, just nobody will ever see it, so I don't think preview will help here ...

... but if you meant that the GM should have all the preview options when editing a players, post, then to me that's the same as the GM creating a new post on behalf of an NPC, a GM-PC or on behalf of a PC, so yes, to my mind they'd still get my suggested edit options.  Still only available to GM, but for however they're posting. :>
Grimmond
 member, 166 posts
 Antler-care by LIV THATCH
 "RALPH" The Wonder Llama
Thu 5 Dec 2013
at 17:45
Re: View as player x... Option.
Why would a player have or be able to reveal "important plot information". I would assume that as the GM you are the only one with that information ... unless you give it to a player ... You know how to keep a secret ? Do not tell anyone anything that is secret.
PrettyBirdie1
 member, 166 posts
 Bird-brained
 bird lover.
Thu 5 Dec 2013
at 17:53
Re: View as player x... Option.
I would just like to be able to see everything in the thread at once. In my opinion, it would be nice to have that option. That's all I'm trying to say. :)


The other thing is threads, not just PMs. I would want to be able to have that option from the game menu so that I could make sure everyone was in the right group.
rogar308
 member, 706 posts
 Gaming is good!
 Got RPOL in my soul
Thu 5 Dec 2013
at 18:05
Re: View as player x... Option.
Grimmond:
Why would a player have or be able to reveal "important plot information". I would assume that as the GM you are the only one with that information ... unless you give it to a player ... You know how to keep a secret ? Do not tell anyone anything that is secret.


I think the point is that players can intentionally or unintentionally do something that requires editing by the GM. One example might be using curse words in a non-adult/mature game. Rather than having the only option of deleting the post, being able to simply edit the word or few words is a more feasible solution. In the case where the issue is an infraction of RPOL policy the GM wants to remedy the issue immediately rather than go through the process of contacting the player and having them edit when and if they get around to it. Naturally the player will probably be contacted by the GM but that will typically occur after the issue was already fixed.
bigbadron
 moderator, 14073 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Thu 5 Dec 2013
at 18:11
Re: View as player x... Option.
In reply to Grimmond (msg # 23):

Plot information like things the player included in his character pitch as part of the background, or in discussion with the GM - "I act like X, but really I'm working undercover for Y."  A wrongly set up private line from a player could give that sort of thing away...

[Private to GM; I'm going to plant a listening device in Joey's room while I'm there.]

Compared to...

[Privte to GM; I'm going to plant a listening device in Joey's room while I'm there.]
Grimmond
 member, 167 posts
 Antler-care by LIV THATCH
 "RALPH" The Wonder Llama
Thu 5 Dec 2013
at 19:58
Re: View as player x... Option.
Right ... but we already HAVE the ability to edit players posts.

But the ability to see everything as a player sees it I highly recommend. It would be a really good tool to be sure that as a GM I have got the post looking the way I expect it to post.
Utsukushi
 member, 1278 posts
 I should really stay out
 of this, I know...but...
Thu 5 Dec 2013
at 20:06
Re: View as player x... Option.
PrettyBirdie1:
I think a better solution would be to have the "view as" button inside the thread, next to the "edit thread" button. That way all posts could be viewed in the thread format, whether you had posted them or not.

I like Skald's suggestion better - to be able to try different player-views of a post as you're Previewing it.  If the option is connected to the Thread, then you have to make the post before you can start looking at it this way; and if you're going to be double-checking a couple of player's views, then there's a reasonable chance some of them may be online, will get the red post flag, and have read the post before you notice something off and get it edited.

If the view-as-player is done from the Preview, then you get everything confirmed before it becomes a post.
PrettyBirdie1
 member, 168 posts
 Bird-brained
 bird lover.
Thu 5 Dec 2013
at 20:38
Re: View as player x... Option.
Good point. Maybe it would be possible to incorporate both options?
LonePaladin
 member, 396 posts
 Creator of HeroForge
Sun 8 Dec 2013
at 21:16
Re: View as player x... Option.
I second the idea of a "Preview as..." drop-down. I probably use that Preview button on 90% of my posts, because I use all the formatting tricks. I'd like to be able to make sure that hidden information stays that way.

Also, I've never actually seen language lines at work. I've used them a lot, but always from the GM viewpoint. I've never actually played in a game where they're in use, so I have no idea what they look like from the player's perspective. I'd like to be able to see how those, and private lines, look before I post.
Heath
 member, 2554 posts
 If my opinion changes,
 The answer is still 42.
Mon 9 Dec 2013
at 23:26
Re: View as player x... Option.
+1 from me.

I have occasionally added players accidentally to restricted threads where I keep GM only info or separate group info, even if it's old, not to mention wanting to make sure I am typing the private line coding correctly.  (Some browsers I've had do not let you do the drop down, so I have to type it in.)

This is a great add on from simply a GM check standpoint.  I'm not sure what other applications it might have.