ladysharlyne
 subscriber, 3228 posts
 Member before Oct 2005
 THE GLASS IS HALF FULL
Sun 5 Dec 2021
at 09:28
Wanted Players Ads
I have often wondered but have said nothing until now
  Why does the list of a GMs games at the bottom of each ad have to show the deleted and the inactive games.  This is very misleading as the viewer does not know why the GM deleted or made a game inactive.  Shouldnít it be best to show the Active games only.  The last posted in and post count fine but the other ones, deleted or inactive can show a false impression of a GM.  I mean like recently I had to recreate a game due to a malfunction in the game mechanics and create a whole new game.  Others were deleted because either their was a lack of interest or players just stopped posting. Other GMs delete it inactivated games for various reasons.  Players should only be interested in active games, their post count and last time someone posted if that is what they wish to know.  The past is the past and canít usually be changed but the present is what should matter to new players looking for a game.
bigbadron
 moderator, 16063 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Sun 5 Dec 2021
at 11:26
Wanted Players Ads
It shows them because that is what users requested - a way to see how many games a GM was currently running, compared to how many had been abandoned/deleted.  As was pointed out, a list of three current games is pretty pointless as an indicator of GM reliability, if it doesn't show the hundred or so he has abandoned after 30-40 posts.

Like any other list, though, it's just a list.  If people want more detailed information they can go and check out the listed games, where they might find out exactly why they are no longer active.
CaptainHellrazor
 member, 192 posts
Sun 5 Dec 2021
at 11:50
Wanted Players Ads
It's a pity GM's can't see how many games players have joined and quit :)
ladysharlyne
 subscriber, 3229 posts
 Member before Oct 2005
 THE GLASS IS HALF FULL
Sun 5 Dec 2021
at 13:45
Wanted Players Ads
It is a pity that GMs have no way of knowing that about any players.  The amount of time that would save us.  So players seem to get it all but GMs have no help except for not having to vet new adult players.  Whatís good for the gander isnít good for the goods after all.  So Developers work that one out.  GMs need a way to know how many games a player is in, has been in and how many have they just left a GM and other players high and dry!  How many have they deserted and how many they are active in, their posting rates all regardless of the reasons they disappear?
bigbadron
 moderator, 16064 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Sun 5 Dec 2021
at 13:56
Wanted Players Ads
Have you considered using the tried and tested "asking applicants what games they were in previously, and taking a look at those games" method?
ladysharlyne
 subscriber, 3230 posts
 Member before Oct 2005
 THE GLASS IS HALF FULL
Sun 5 Dec 2021
at 15:35
Wanted Players Ads
No never asked as they will only tell you what they want you to know truth or not.  Itís not going to change anyways.  Iíll not beat a dead horse about it.
silverelf
 member, 290 posts
Sun 5 Dec 2021
at 16:06
Wanted Players Ads
It's a hobby not a job some of the people here are in the older bracket and have health issues others are military.I have nurses and doctors in some of my games. I run games I want to run, as a GM I am accepting that it's the luck of the draw. When it comes to players. Some times you really luck out sometimes not.

Some disappear for a bit and come back ready to go on. I as a GM do not care if people see my games history. It helps me advertise other stuff.

If it feels like work people will avoid games. I don't need to know my players game history it feels like invading privacy everyone has their reasons on both fronts game pattered out game finished, player and GM didn't see eye to eye , the game wasn't a writers style. It's all in personal preference.

I personally chat in ooc with my players some respond well some don't bother engaging and that's okay there are ups and downs to all rp experiences . If it's stressful it's not fun.
SunRuanEr
 subscriber, 428 posts
Sun 5 Dec 2021
at 16:18
Wanted Players Ads
I'm not sure that would be fair, really. There's an aspect of the GM having so much more control of the game (obviously, because they own and run it) that I think /should/ give the players the ability to determine whether or not they think/feel the GM is trustworthy, or flighty, or anything else they can extrapolate from the statistics listing a GM's games.

A GM that constantly opens games, gets 100 posts in, and then bails is wasting players' time every bit as much as a player that quits wastes their GM's time. The GM's time is not more valuable than the Player's. The difference is: Players that get 100 posts in are replaceable. GMs are not. I can understand why people want to know whether or not a GM has a habit of starting and stopping games before they commit to joining one. Equally, yes, I understand why GMs want to know if players are flighty...but again, players are replaceable. GMs are not.

A player that quits because they got bored can't shut the game down for everyone. A GM that gets bored can. Yes, I understand that not every game gets deleted because the GM got bored, but it's a pretty safe bet that if you see a list of thirty deleted games with only a handful of posts tagged to a GM, it's not /all/ because of a technical glitch or circumstances out of their control.

/shrug

Admittedly, even if the Players-Wanted Ad /didn't/ list a GM's games, prospective players can always look them up via the Game Search, anyway. People that care about that information are probably going to do that, and those that don't care probably don't pay attention to the list of games at the bottom of an Ad in the first place. Removing the list from the Ads won't hide the information.
bigbadron
 moderator, 16065 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Sun 5 Dec 2021
at 17:51
Wanted Players Ads
In reply to SunRuanEr (msg # 8):

And this is a good point: there is nothing in the Wanted - Players list that couldn't be discovered by using the Main Menu search function - it's just a little easier to access in the forum.  The forum is not giving the players any information that they didn't already have the option to find.
DeeYin
 member, 30 posts
Sun 5 Dec 2021
at 18:00
Re: Wanted Players Ads
ladysharlyne:
This is very misleading as the viewer does not know why the GM deleted or made a game inactive.


Perhaps one way to mitigate this would be for the GM to post the reason?
One could have a pinned ďNOTICE- game endingĒ thread in the game that states the rationale for why the game has had to come to an end. It is true most people will likely not delve that far into it, but perhaps if this becomes more common, they might start to do so. In any event, it would allow the GM to have their say.
ladysharlyne
 subscriber, 3235 posts
 Member before Oct 2005
 THE GLASS IS HALF FULL
Sun 5 Dec 2021
at 21:38
Wanted Players Ads
After over 15 yrs oh GMing her and retired with health issues I have never deleted or restarted my games without good cause.  I will never ask my players or rtjís what games they have been in because to me itís a breach of privacy as should be games a GM chooses to delete or make inactive.  This is a dead issue as nothing will ever be done to satisfy everyone.

A  GM make games they think will  be fun and interesting to all but as for players they can do as they please with a game and GMs have to accept that.  I do.  I just felt that the deleted and inactive being shown in the list was unnecessary and if a player wants to check out the track record of GM that badly they can do the search.  But Showing the active games is great.  That there could be a way for a GM to check out a player.  Like searching for a GM games you could search by player name and it comes up with the games they are or have been in.  Just not going to happen.  PERIOD

DeeYin you could be on to something.  What if a GM puts in the Subject line Ö DELETED DUE TO GAME MALFUNCTION or DELETED DUE TO NO PLAYER INTEREST, etc.  Who knows what might work to help GMs out with this?  Itís a good thought!  Thank you for helping.
silverelf
 member, 291 posts
Sun 5 Dec 2021
at 21:54
Re: Wanted Players Ads
ladysharlyne:
DeeYin you could be on to something.  What if a GM puts in the Subject line Ö DELETED DUE TO GAME MALFUNCTION or DELETED DUE TO NO PLAYER INTEREST, etc.  Who knows what might work to help GMs out with this?  Itís a good thought!  Thank you for helping.

All of this, I have been doing for ...a long while...( can't remember how long..) I like the idea of adding a reason for game deletion too.
WhiteComic
 member, 443 posts
 In omnia Paratus
 Momento Mori
Sun 5 Dec 2021
at 22:07
Re: Wanted Players Ads
I have always prevented this[this I mean people being able to see your inactive and/or deleted games] by:

When I deleted a game when it's gone dead or I couldn't manage it well etc. You know, all the reasons why we delete games; once it's deleted, I completely erase everything in it - posts and all threads etc. And if or when I start a new game, I just resurrect that empty game. No history attached. Been doing that forever now.
ladysharlyne
 subscriber, 3236 posts
 Member before Oct 2005
 THE GLASS IS HALF FULL
Sun 5 Dec 2021
at 22:14
Wanted Players Ads
I am going through my deleted games, resurrecting them, deleting all but one thread in which I only have one post and the subject is ĎDeleted due to lack of players interestí, changing the game name to be ĎDELETED DUE TO LACK OF INTERESTí and before deleting the game again I am changing the Wanted player ad to also read the same in the Subject line of the post to match.  If you want all you have to do is also delete the post and put in the reason there to.  You wonít be able to redirect the game but once you go back to the game and delete it then hen the wanted ad comes up game deleted.  This is one way that it might work.  I donít make it a habit of deleting games.

 Another thought is if you wanted to run a TEST game put TEST temporarily in the game title and the Wanted Player ad subject line but if you have no success for the game delete it like I said in the above paragraph for deletion.  Just offering ideas here to help GMs.

WhiteComic that too is a good thought but I am only suggesting the above if you have already deleted games. Thanks for that advice too.

This message was last edited by the user at 22:17, Sun 05 Dec 2021.

pawndream
 member, 195 posts
Sun 5 Dec 2021
at 23:54
Wanted Players Ads
It's interesting to think about players reading into the reasons behind why a GM has deleted games. There are many reasons why a game ends up deleted: game runs to completion and there is no intent to resurrect it, game concept never took off, GM lost interest, players lost interest, etc.

I recently deleted four completed games. There was probably a total of about 10,000 posts between these four games. Several of these hung out in my Inactive Games for years. I wasn't going to resurrect these completed games. The RPoL FAQ clearly states it's better to delete games you aren't going to play anymore. Some of this is probably so the site owner isn't unnecessarily paying data storage fees. (Data storage isn't free)

I know there is a formula for when inactive games are supposed to drop off, but I have yet to see it happen. Maybe it's because my inactive/completed games have 1000's of posts.

At any rate, I went in and deleted all posts from these games and I am curious to see whether this will actually make them disappear for good. Until they do, I suppose some players will come up with all sorts of assumptions about why these games were deleted.