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10:50, 29th March 2024 (GMT+0)

[OOC] The Liar's Club.

Posted by CTAFor group 0
Krystal O'Conner
player, 192 posts
the odd one
Tue 10 Mar 2015
at 12:02
  • msg #246

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

Yes, finite resources are the one thing we can't replicate here. In one Storium game my character had "Magical Ability" as part of the character concept. Two of the Strength cards I had at all times was "Magical MacGyver" - This would mean when trying to do something NON magical I only had 2 cards to use and one of them was the Wild Card. If I used them up, I couldn't help unless I did something "Magical".

I would play "Magical MacGyver" and describe my self helping the scene by doing things like grabbing chalk from the class room chalk board and running around the room drawing symbols to create a binding circle. I wasn't doing this to "win" but to "help". Would it work? Didn't know until someone played a card to win the conflict. Meanwhile someone else was using an item card "Magical Blade" and describing a knockdown drag out fight - again, just helping and not "winning"

If I needed my "magic" and didn't have my "Wild Card", I'd usually play a weakness on the challenge reflecting how drained I was from using up all my magic previously.

The Advantage Storium has is that you cannot get new resources until you've used up both your Strengths AND Weaknesses - it forces you to "fail" sometimes. As a player you have to plan out what you want to fail at. Yes, if you use up all your Magic Strengths you'll be unable to refresh until you use up all your Weakness cards, but then you get to refresh in the next scene. Think of a scene as more like a few pages in a book, not a whole chapter. In fact, the games are set up as Chapters with Scenes. The Narrator IS tasked with providing enough ways for you to play challenges but if you play your cards to move the story it'll feel like you have infinite resources - you just don't have infinite success.

The reason the scene with CTA was so intense is that people realized the challenge was trending "weak" and decided to keep it going that direction so everything had to "fail" on a social level. A few "Strengths" were played but overall, it wasn't enough and everyone going into that knew the "Strengths" were just played because that's what the character would do - even if it would have no effect.

Again, it's truly is hard to do something like that here where things AREN'T finite. They may seem it, but you can probably go your entire Unisystem life and avoid rolling a total disaster - statistically, but in Storium you'll be forced to do something wrong at some point.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:09, Tue 10 Mar 2015.
Tom
player, 150 posts
I'm a good man...
Well, I'm all right
Tue 10 Mar 2015
at 15:51
  • msg #247

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

That's exactly the thing... You never need to lose in Unisystem, you either take a chance (by rolling without a DP) or you don't (and usually auto-win).

Which means Tom the character will only "lose" in one of three situations: when placed in a no-win scenario, when losing is better than winning in the long term, or when losing isn't that critical, and luck doesn't assist (take a chance and roll low).

In Storium, you are literally forced to lose some in order to win some, and I am not entirely convinced that is the best possible thing.

You *can* replicate Storium in RPoL, using Storium game mechanics: you just keep track of your cards in your character sheet (which, of course, needs to be player-editable), and play using the same mechanics.

What you can't very well do is replicate the characters with Storium mechanics. At least I don't think so.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:02, Tue 10 Mar 2015.
CTA
GM, 388 posts
Chicago Transit Authority
Hope you enjoy the ride
Wed 11 Mar 2015
at 19:04
  • msg #248

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club


We could try to replicate Storium here but, I think it will lose a lot in the translation.

One of the things I liked about unisystem was that all characters were required to have Drawbacks. However, after having played it for a number of years, it is my experience that the Drawbacks don't come up in the story as much as they should. In Storium, they do.

This doesn't mean that your hero is failing half the time. I know at first glance, it may look that way, because you start with an equal number of strengths and weaknesses. But when actually playing, you still win more than you lose.

You aren't the only player and the other players can compensate for your weaknesses. I can give you an example. We have a character in our group who can't kill anything for any reason, he's got PTSD. The group was attacking a mutated lion. The PTSD character played a couple of weakness cards on the challenge. It was up to the rest of us to play enough strength cards on it to turn things around and end the challenge with a strong outcome, and that's what we did.

Sure, we won't be able to do that all the time but we can do it more often than not. The next challenge, could be a social one instead of combat. Our charming PTSD character will still have his strength cards and be able to help us win that one, even if the rest of us are only left with weaknesses. It balances out.

Also, you can earn additional strength cards by completing subplots and goals. There was one character in our group walking around with 6 strength cards and no weaknesses.

Strengths and Weaknesses aren't the only cards you can play. There are several kind of neutral cards -- assets, goals, and subplots. They help complete a challenge but don't drive it toward a particular outcome. So if you are out of strength cards and don't want to play your weakness, you can play a neutral card and hope another player can play a card that drives the outcome. Neutral outcomes are also an option. If you get a neutral outcome, it is up to the GM what happened.

I would be inclined to make Tom's Blessing an asset. That way, if you "Blessed" one of the other characters, you could simply pass them the card and they could play it on a challenge when they wanted to. We can give you multiple asset cards, and I can give you more at anytime during the story.
CTA
GM, 389 posts
Chicago Transit Authority
Hope you enjoy the ride
Thu 12 Mar 2015
at 20:29
  • msg #249

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

Tom:
That's exactly the thing... You never need to lose in Unisystem


I don't think you should look at it as losing all the time. You are choosing between different outcomes. Sometimes the "Weak" outcome is exactly what you want.

In the scene we referenced before, where the other players were determining my character's fate -- The player that was going to play the final cards and win control actually messaged me. She had the cards that she could have swayed the outcome either way. Since it was going to affect my character the most, she asked me which outcome I would prefer. I told her that it was up to her. The point of the challenge was for the other players to choose. I was prepared to play the consequences of either outcome. She picked the weak outcome because she thought it would be more interesting, and she's probably right.

I just did it again recently. I played the Weakness "Honorable" (similar to the unisystem Drawback). It's a trait that isn't necessarily always a bad thing but, in this case it was a weakness for my character. Playing that Weakness got me my preferred outcome. Playing a Weakness doesn't always mean bad things are going to happen to your character.

Also, I would say the idea that you never need to lose is a flaw in the system but, that could be personal preference. If you want your hero to succeed 95% of the time, then you probably won't like Storium. I've written scenes where my character failed at doing something that I enjoyed just as much as the scenes where they succeeded. The fact that the cast chose the weaker outcome in the challenge targeting my character is going to provide greater character development for all our characters. I'm actually excited about the path they put me on.
Tom
player, 151 posts
I'm a good man...
Well, I'm all right
Fri 13 Mar 2015
at 16:27
  • msg #250

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

That... Is not exactly what I mean, I guess there is a bit of confusion about what represents winning and losing, so let's see if I can explain myself better.

Take the last session as an example.

In story terms, we "lost" several times: two scripted deaths, the Big Bad getting away, almost all evidence being burned to the ground... And let's not forget  Krystal having to time-share her head with a psycho killer.

Tom, bless his feline soul, managed to "win" almost *nothing*, save for his own skin, to which he is not particularly attached (save for the fact that I the player would have some difficulty finding other fitting character pictures ;p), and...

Well, possibly saving one of the last two breeding harpies, which in the long run will do very little good unless they plan on repopulating the species starting with exactly one fertile couple, which is genetically unlikely, to be very generous.

And yet, for all of that, Tom failed exactly *one* roll. Things went almost exactly the way he wanted, in terms of his actions, it's just that his actions were not, in the end, the ones required to "win" those particular portions of the story.

The heroes did not "win" 95% of the potential story goals, far from it, but we did win almost all the rolls: the losses were due the way the story developed, regardless of rollplay.

That's the 95% I am most interested in: as a hero, I take an action that must succeed, and, since I am a hero, it usually succeeds. That's why Unisystem heroes are built around a 70+10 or 80+10 points template instead of the 49+10 or 50+10 that most common mortals use.

This has nothing to do with winning or losing in story terms, since the two metrics are orthogonal.

The idea of the characters having to take losses to satisfy a character trait is fine, but it needs to make sense in context, not being forced by the game mechanics.

For instance, let's see the fight with the harpies in mixed Unisystem/Storium terms: you can play a "High Dex + Acrobatics" Strength and avoid the bullet entirely. Alternatively, since you also have the "Honorable" Drawback, you may play that as a Weakness and *take* that bullet, to save a harpy that you are not actually sure is a bad guy anymore.

But I'm not sure you could actually do that in Storium. Also, that kind of scenario does not seem easy enough to come up with to satisfy the requirement of spending all your Weaknesses, especially because it might not fit any of the Weaknesses you have available at any given point.

Most importantly, having to play my Cruelty Drawback so I can get my Hard to Kill Strength back seems to make very little sense to me. Responding with lethal force to having been shot (while I could have subdued the guilty party) does not heal the bullet wound!

In fact, being unable to use my my Cruelty twice in a row also seems to make little sense: any reason why I shouldn't hurt somebody who wronged me simply because I recently did the same with somebody else who had also wronged me?

That's the kind of thing that I really don't like.

BTW, checking Tom's Qualities I found that I totally forgot about the fact that he's Ambidextrous: he should have had an extra free physical action per Turn - not that it would have changed much.

Anyway, at this point I am really considering trying a session with Storium, simply because I cannot see how such a screwed up, if well-meaning, set of rules could possibly work in light of all my comments above.

And the thing is, people I have played with and whose company I have enjoyed for over a decade keep telling me that it works, and it works very well, to which I can only reply... Show me.

The only thing is, I would very much like Tom to be the same character, and somehow, I suspect he won't be.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:35, Fri 13 Mar 2015.
Krystal O'Conner
player, 193 posts
the odd one
Fri 13 Mar 2015
at 17:01
  • msg #251

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

Tom:
For instance, let's see the fight with the harpies in mixed Unisystem/Storium terms: you can play a "High Dex + Acrobatics" Strength and avoid the bullet entirely. Alternatively, since you also have the "Honorable" Drawback, you may play that as a Weakness and *take* that bullet, to save a harpy that you are not actually sure is a bad guy anymore.

But I'm not sure you could actually do that in Storium. Also, that kind of scenario does not seem easy enough to come up with to satisfy the requirement of spending all your Weaknesses, especially because it might not fit any of the Weaknesses you have available at any given point.


In Storium the Narrator has the job of determining how many cards a challenge will take and what the strong and weak results are. I'll use your example and give what I would do to reflect that.

In the scene I know I have 3 active characters. Each can play up to 3 cards. I want them all to post at least once and give a range of 2-3 cards. I'll set the challenge requirement to 7. This means 2 players could dump 3 cards but it will still require 1 last Person to finish the scene off.

Challenge: Gun Fight
You're in a gun fight. Make sure the Harpy doesn't die.
(Note: I set it up so the Harpy CAN'T die. We need the Harpy for plot reasons so in many ways the players cannot fail)

Strong Outcome: You kill one gunman and run the rest off while securing the Harpy.
Weak Outcome: The gunmen escape and at least one of you is shot while protecting the Harpy.

Now the players go at it.
If Krystal were in this scene and posting first her move look like:
Krystal dives for cover wishing she had a gun. She glares at Jack, "This is why I need a gun!!" {lots of stuff because of internal dialog}

"Cover me! I'm going in!" Having always wanted to say that she throws her jacket to the side and leaps over the counter hoping they would aim for her jacket first. Afraid she'd be shot if she stayed vertical, Krystal takes 3 long strides as if running and then dives for the Harpy hoping a bullet doesn't find her.

[Krystal plays "Quick Wit (strength)" and "Leather Jacket (Asset card)" to tilt the challenge to a Strong Outcome.]

It then goes one from there with other players adding on and helping build up this scene until the final player gets to conclude it.

[Jack plays "Gun (asset card)" and "Why me? (weakness)" and wins control with a weak outcome]
Jack now writes something funny about getting shot in the arm and needing a doctor.

Tom:
Most importantly, having to play my Cruelty Drawback so I can get my Hard to Kill Strength back seems to make very little sense to me. Responding with lethal force to having been shot (while I could have subdued the guilty party) does not heal the bullet wound!

Hard to Kill may be an Asset. Who knows. But yes, at some point in time Tom's Cruelty will have to come into play. By the way - I didn't know he had that. I've never seen Tom do anything particularly Cruel. In Storium, however, you will HAVE to highlight it at some point. I've seen people start with Drawbacks like that and quickly cycle them out because it becomes difficult to play that card and you will eventually have to play that card.
Tom, Cat
player, 41 posts
I Killed Curiosity
So Sue Me
Fri 13 Mar 2015
at 22:08
  • msg #252

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

Tom isn't evil-cruel, he's cat-cruel, it's a slightly different brand of cruelty; also, he's honorable, which means he tends to follow a "do unto others as they do unto you" kind of philosophy, rather than the shorter, and much shorter-tempered, "do unto others" that most cats adopt.

It would usually only come into play if he's been wronged by somebody - at which point, however, he's about as kind as your average drow matron, so it might be a good idea not to test the boundaries of his niceness.

In fact, a lesser version might come up with Krystal, if she keeps up the "Tom is not a person (most of the time)" act - but then, for the reasons above, he would probably make it a prank-cum-object-lesson kind of thing, rather than wanton cruelty. Also, I would have to plan it, and enlist the Director's help.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:14, Fri 13 Mar 2015.
Zoey Granger
player, 123 posts
Mon 16 Mar 2015
at 13:04
  • msg #253

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

*creaks door open slowly* ....hey everyone, I'm so sorry for my blatant absence, amongst the busy family stuff this month that I'm obviously involved in, I also got let go from my place of work. Although my job hunt isn't over yet I have some prospects and now at least feel like there's a good chance I won't be homeless lol ....here's hoping. Anyway, I caught up on the in game thread and should be ready to go when the game is. I'll do my best to quickly read the big storium discussion and contribute as needed, but I just wanted to mostly apologize for disappearing, thank you all for your patience :)
CTA
GM, 390 posts
Chicago Transit Authority
Hope you enjoy the ride
Wed 18 Mar 2015
at 12:33
  • msg #254

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

In this story, the major things that were on the line, you guys won. All three of the harpies could have died. Yes, Zoey was always going to die and Paul was always going to get away. No, three harpies doesn't save their race but, I hope you feel good about saving the lives of innocents. I honestly expected at least one of the harpies, and possibly two of them, to die. It took a group effort by all of you to pull that off.

I will be honest, it is difficult to make challenges in this game that are actually a challenge when all it takes is a drama point to make sure you win them all. Also, I try to avoid creating situations that could be devastating to your characters if you fail a die roll. One bad die roll shouldn't kill or maim a character. This forces me to hold back. There were small bits of info you missed, because of low die rolls. It isn't devastating to the story. There will be other oportunities to learn those things.

Some things you won by default. In other words, on Storium I would've made that get together with Corbin and Bella a social challenge. I didn't want it to rely on die rolls so I didn't really make it a challenge here. Better perception rolls might've provided more info than you got but, that's about it. Instead of just giving you Corbin's gratitude, I could've made you earn it -- and I probably would've given you a bigger reward. It wasn't much of a challenge here, so not as much of a reward.

Getting the info from Ben (your friendly neighborhood morgue attendant) would also have been a challenge on Storium instead of just doing it. I could also have included personal challenges -- will Jack choose to take the weak outcome with his ex-wife so he can save his strengths for other things? Or will he play a strength on Carly in the hopes of repairing things with her -- what is going to be more important to him?

Tom:
And yet, for all of that, Tom failed exactly *one* roll.


To me, that is part of the problem. I must have some scripted failures for the heroes, because that is probably the only way they will ever fail. It is too easy for you to optimize your characters to ensure that a failed die roll will be very, very rare. I think that makes for a less interesting story.

No system is perfect, that includes both Storium and Unisystem. Yes, there are times it can be a challenge to figure out how to apply one of the cards in your hand to a particular task. I have found that this has gotten easier for me the more I have played on Storium. Honestly, I think my creativity and writing skills have improved because of it. It helps to think outside the box in terms of some of your Strengths and Weaknesses.

Some Strengths and Weaknesses don't go away just because you no longer have that card in your hand. They just won't be the primary reason you get a strong or weak outcome. I have a character with a bad leg as one of his weaknesses. He can't suddenly run normally if I've played all my Bad Leg Weakness cards. He still limps. When I play his bad leg card, that will be the primary reason he got a weak outcome. Another Weakness I have is this little dog who hates me. I could play the card for the dog and fail the challenge because the dog was barking loudly. That is the primary reason it failed but, I could write my post that the dog was barking because I tripped over her because of my bad leg. The same goes for Strengths. Your Well-Educated character doesn't suddenly become illiterate because he ran out of cards. It just won't be the primary reason he succeeds at a particular challenge.

If we were to adapt these characters to Storium, I don't think we would need to create a Strength or Weakness for every Quality or Drawback. Hard to Kill is one we just might not need anymore.

If Tom's Cruelty is so rare and circumstantial, maybe it doesn't warrant being a Drawback. It could just be a personality quirk instead of something that gives you advantages or disadvantages regarding stats. In Storium you could use a Wild card to play it on the rare occasion it comes up. I've been playing my Storium character as fairly honorable for most of the game but, I didn't play a card for that trait until just recently. Again, I can be honorable without playing a card and Tom can be cruel without playing a card.

If we decide to try Storium, I would ask that you give yourself time to get the feel of it. As I said, it has gotten easier for me the longer I've played with it. Also, be patient with me. I've never run a game in Storium and it will take time for me to get into the groove of things, too. We would all be learning what works and what doesn't.

If you want to feel like you have more input into the direction the story takes, instead of feeling like all your wins and losses are scripted, I think that is easier to do in Storium than with unisystem.

I'd like to talk more about how we can adapt these characters to Storium but, this post is long enough for now.
Tom
player, 152 posts
I'm a good man...
Well, I'm all right
Wed 18 Mar 2015
at 16:05
  • msg #255

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

I'd note that Tom's cruelty pretty much follows the book's definition: the Classic core books usually say something along the lines of "cats have this level of cruelty" in the description for Cruel 1, and the Bast description suggests it as a Drawback.

It actually came into play at least once, and he pretty much spelled it out (I'm a cat, she's a bird, it's not rocket surgery) when he went for the kill against the harpies. Admittedly, after they ignored his one-time offer for negotiations, but that was one part his Honorable drawback, one part common sense (dead people are hard to interrogate).

After that, he wasn't aiming to subdue, he was aiming to julienne.

If the doctor hadn't reached her gun... Well, under the same scenario in Storium Tom would have ended up playing Cruel as a Weakness, which would have resulted in one of the harpies dying at Tom's hands - or rather, claws.

But the one-weak-outcome/one-strong-outcome structure is also too limiting: we can win the fight without killing anybody, or we can win the fight killing a harpy, *or* we can lose the fight entirely, which can potentially result in one of us dying.

That's four outcomes right there.

What if I don't like either outcome? Storium ends up looking a lot like an interactive visual novel, rather than the sandbox a roleplaying game should be.
CTA
GM, 391 posts
Chicago Transit Authority
Hope you enjoy the ride
Thu 19 Mar 2015
at 11:55
  • msg #256

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

Tom:
under the same scenario in Storium Tom would have ended up playing Cruel as a Weakness, which would have resulted in one of the harpies dying at Tom's hands - or rather, claws.


That assumes Tom was the only one playing cards on the challenge. The other players might have swayed it a different way.

The fight with the harpies probably would've been done on Storium in stages. That's how you get more possible outcomes. You break the fight down into sections. It doesn't have to be "Defeat the Harpies or Somebody gets hurt or killed." The outcome for the first part of the battle determines what possible outcomes the next part will have. I could have even made each harpy and the doctor separate challenges, and let you decide which one you want your character to take on while the other characters deal with the other challenges.

Tom:
What if I don't like either outcome?


What if you don't like the result of a die roll now? What if you don't like the options I give you here? Just because you can roll a die doesn't mean you're going to agree with everything I do. What if the chart of combat maneuvers or list of gear doesn't cover what you want to do? Did you read the article I linked to? What if you want to kill a guy with your thumb or a teacup? In unisystem we would need to pause and figure out how to stat that. In Storium, if you have a strength card that makes it plausible, you can do it and you don't need to wait for me.

I will admit that is part of my motivation. Having to pause to look things up in rulebooks or to figure out how to fairly do something the books didn't cover, isn't fun for me. The idea of having to stat new spells or magic items in unisystem isn't something I'm looking forward to doing, and will take a lot of time that I don't have to spare. I'd rather spend the time I have playing instead of days figuring out the stats for new items, spells, abilities or bad guys.

I used to handle the math part of the game when we played in Misery. I calculated the combats so he could focus on the story. I'd double check the rules to make sure nobody had missed any bonuses. I was happy to do it back then because I knew he didn't have time. But now, it just feels tedious and time consuming and I think it takes away from the story. It definitely slows the story down. I wanted there to be spellcasters in this world we've created. It made sense to have them but, magic systems always add a level of complication that I hate. They are very hard to balance.

Tom:
Storium ends up looking a lot like an interactive visual novel, rather than the sandbox a roleplaying game should be.


I think what we've been doing here for the past year could be described the same way. There was a scripted outline of a story. The way each of you interacted with it helped shape it. For example, Krys getting caught by Paul wasn't part of the original plan. I will admit that when it comes to roleplaying, the storyteller in me wins out over the gamer in me.

You keep saying Tom won't be the same character. I'm trying to understand what you mean by that. Most of what we did for the past year was roleplaying. The die rolls were few and far between except for one combat. Over the course of a year, there was only one combat. Most of this episode could have been handled exactly the same on Storium. I think it would've been more interesting to include a few more challenges but, I could have skipped the challenges and done it just like we did here. Instead of the occasional die roll you would've had to play the occasional card. It isn't free-form so, there are limits to what you can do. In unisystem those limits are based on die rolls and combat maneuvers. In Storium the limits are based on the cards.

We're setting up a test game on Storium so we can play around with it and try some things out. I'll try to get an invite sent to you today. I will be out of town for the weekend starting tomorrow so, I won't be able to do a lot with it until I get back.

The question I think we need to start discussing is what would be the best way to adapt these characters. What if Ghost, Bast, Nosy Reporter, and Psychic were your starting Strengths and covered the basic abilities that went along with that? It wouldn't include extra abilities -- like Tom's Telekinesis, since that isn't a basic Bast ability. It could include his ability to shape shift, his high dex and agility, his Natural Weapon, his telepathy etc. Or another way I've seen powers handled is they were all assets -- not strength or weaknesses. The character's strengths would be things like Cool Under Pressure, Fast Reflexes, Well Educated...
Krystal O'Conner
player, 194 posts
the odd one
Thu 19 Mar 2015
at 13:07
  • msg #257

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

CTA:
I will admit that is part of my motivation. Having to pause to look things up in rulebooks or to figure out how to fairly do something the books didn't cover, isn't fun for me. The idea of having to stat new spells or magic items in unisystem isn't something I'm looking forward to doing, and will take a lot of time that I don't have to spare. I'd rather spend the time I have playing instead of days figuring out the stats for new items, spells, abilities or bad guys.

The other side of that, I've found, is having to really scrutinize what you've developed out of thin air and step back to figure out if there is anything you haven't thought of that could allow this new mechanic to be abused at a later time. In Storium, you give someone an asset card - if they abuse it - just let them use it up and they never have it again.

CTA:
The question I think we need to start discussing is what would be the best way to adapt these characters. What if Ghost, Bast, Nosy Reporter, and Psychic were your starting Strengths and covered the basic abilities that went along with that? It wouldn't include extra abilities -- like Tom's Telekinesis, since that isn't a basic Bast ability. It could include his ability to shape shift, his high dex and agility, his Natural Weapon, his telepathy etc. Or another way I've seen powers handled is they were all assets -- not strength or weaknesses. The character's strengths would be things like Cool Under Pressure, Fast Reflexes, Well Educated...

I think, for our purposes, Asset cards would work best for things like Abilities, Spells, uses of Natural Weapons and so on. You can throw them around as much or as little as you'd like and we'll have to rely on the Narrator to give us a fresh supply later. Until then we'll have exhausted that resource.
CTA
GM, 392 posts
Chicago Transit Authority
Hope you enjoy the ride
Thu 19 Mar 2015
at 13:26
  • msg #258

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

Krystal O'Conner:
The other side of that, I've found, is having to really scrutinize what you've developed out of thin air and step back to figure out if there is anything you haven't thought of that could allow this new mechanic to be abused at a later time.


Yeah, and I've seen that lead to lengthy game-stopping delays while everyone debates in the OOC how a game mechanic should work. Storium isn't immune from discussions about "Can he really do that?" But they are simpler and faster to resolve and don't seem to come up as often.

I've thought before that I think spells would work as an asset, since spells can fail. Playing them with a Strength or Weakness card will determine if they succeed or fail. Keep in mind, the player who plays the spell asset card doesn't have to be the one to play the Strength or Weakness card. Another player could do that. If a challenge is trending strong with one card left to play, the spellcaster only needs to play their spell asset card to get a strong outcome.

One advantage this would have is we wouldn't need to jump through all those hoops and die rolls if Tom wanted to add a new spell to his repertoire.

The Natural Weapon would probably work well as an asset too, just like any weapon the other characters would choose to carry.
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:30, Thu 19 Mar 2015.
Tom
player, 153 posts
I'm a good man...
Well, I'm all right
Thu 19 Mar 2015
at 15:03
  • msg #259

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

I am not arguing that die rolls make the system better - that is pretty much the opposite of what I think. I like the idea of a game driven by the characters' decisions, rather than the player's luck.

My beef isn't even, necessarily, with having cards to play. That is also a set of character decisions, in its own way, and can make sense - as long as we are not trying to use "Magic: the Gathering" mechanics.

It's just that the way the overall system is set up seems very artificial - and, unfortunately, I don't mean that in a "St. Paul's cathedral" kind of way.

I saw a strong push to move the game to Storium, suggesting I might be missing something, so I decided to ask  what this missing element was.

From what I have seen, all the replies seem to center on the GM in one form or another. This basically tells me that Storium is a system that relies on the GM's storytelling abilities: it works very well when the GM is very good at thinking on their feet, and quickly becomes awful (also not meant in a St. Paul's cathedral kind of way) if the GM is not.

The good news is that we have the right GM for the job, but it doesn't change my opinion of Storium much. I expect the game will still be fun after we move to Storium, but that's because I trust you all, both individually and as a group, to make the game fun.

If we moved to Storyteller, D20 modern, or freeform, it would be pretty much the same thing.

Related: I will accept the invitation this evening when I get home, and I would very much like to have a test session to get the hang of the system.

If I understand  how this works, I *think* the logical way to handle Tk, Pk and Magic would be to have Asset cards for each ability, which would then "refresh" (and I suppose that's where the GM needs to be on top of things) every so often.

Also related: I'll go through Tom's character sheet and try to figure out what his (potential) known Strengths, Weaknesses and Assets are, and submit that for GM review, so that we can start talking about ways to convert the character.
CTA
GM, 393 posts
Chicago Transit Authority
Hope you enjoy the ride
Thu 19 Mar 2015
at 15:59
  • msg #260

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

Tom:
This basically tells me that Storium is a system that relies on the GM's storytelling abilities


That's true of any roleplaying system. Unisystem or D&D would not be fun with a GM that is a bad storyteller. I think Storium puts more storytelling power in the hands of the players than other systems, and actually takes some of the burden off the GM.

Tom:
The good news is that we have the right GM for the job


I appreciate the vote of confidence and also feel a twinge of "I hope I don't let you down." The players are just as important. You guys are good writers and we know nobody is going to try go into God mode.

There are features that we have on RPOL that I will miss but, RPOL wasn't this full-featured when it started. I expect Storium to improve over time. We have private messaging there now but, it isn't as robust as what we can do on RPOL. Joint posts are easier on RPOL, too. I've done a few joint posts with a player in Australia using google docs and that has worked quite well. I've also used email for joint posts. For short posts we've used the private message feature.
Tom
player, 154 posts
I'm a good man...
Well, I'm all right
Fri 25 Dec 2015
at 18:45
  • msg #261

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

Merry Christmas everyone, and a happy 2016 to all.
Tom, Cat
player, 42 posts
I Killed Curiosity
So Sue Me
Sun 25 Dec 2016
at 10:27
  • msg #262

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

Murrry Xmas, everyone :P
Tom
player, 155 posts
I'm a good man...
Well, I'm all right
Mon 25 Dec 2017
at 16:42
  • msg #263

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

Merry Christmas everyone, and a happy... 2018? Already? Well then.
Tom, Cat
player, 43 posts
I Killed Curiosity
So Sue Me
Tue 25 Dec 2018
at 12:10
  • msg #264

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

Merry Christmas, everyone, and a happy 2019.
Tom
player, 156 posts
I'm a good man...
Well, I'm all right
Wed 25 Dec 2019
at 17:06
  • msg #265

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

I don't know if anybody is still around but... Merry Christmas, and a happy 2020.
Tom
player, 157 posts
I'm a good man...
Well, I'm all right
Fri 22 Jan 2021
at 13:12
  • msg #266

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

So... 2020 happened. Gods and kings did 2020 happen. Can we make it unhappen? That would be great.

Anyway. Happy new year, everyone.
Tom
player, 158 posts
I'm a good man...
Well, I'm all right
Sat 15 Jan 2022
at 14:41
  • msg #267

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

Hello everyone. It's been a while. Hope you are all well. Hug your kittens, and wish them a happy 2022 from me.
Nightowl
Mon 14 Mar 2022
at 22:19
  • msg #268

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

In reply to Tom (msg # 267):

Hi Asterix, it's been a long time. I have five cats now lol. I hope you are well too.

Nightowl
Tom, Cat
player, 44 posts
I Killed Curiosity
So Sue Me
Wed 1 Feb 2023
at 08:46
  • msg #269

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

After COVID, COVID++, and the war in Ukraine (which doesn't look like it's letting up anytime soon), I have pretty much run out of cheerfully optimistic things to say, other than: happy 2023 everyone. Hope you are all well.
Tom
player, 159 posts
I'm a good man...
Well, I'm all right
Tue 2 Jan 2024
at 11:56
  • msg #270

Re: [OOC] The Liar's Club

We officially wish you a happy 2024, may the AI apocalypse spare you.
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