In reply to The Stray (msg #845):

I actually like this change ALOT, it lessens the likelihood of becoming "shaken locked".

Stray - you might want to post this idea up on the Savage Worlds Discussions "forum" here link to another game and maybe on the Pinnacle forums too so people can talk through it.

This was Clint Black's solution

This message was last edited by the player at 12:13, Fri 27 Apr 2012.

Well here's the thing I ran into when I made the change described above.

Generic roleplaying, SW or not, assumes a classic 4 character team where the "Fighter" is taking the punishment for the Wizard, then to a slightly lesser degree the theif, then to a slightly lesser degree the Cleric.

In generic roleplaying, you take your courageous paladin and you pile your heavy scale armor and your big heavy shield on her and you send her to hold the line.  Or in another setting it's your cybernetically enhanced space marine guy with a laser sword.  Or whatever.

I recall a long time ago seeing a very persuasive post from one of the Pinnacle personalities that the Combat Reflexes Edge was basically what they came up with to solve the "stun lock" problem for characters with this role, so you're right it wasn't supposed to be something everyone had to have.

The trouble in Deadlands is we all have pistols, and no one has armor.  We can all attack anyone usually so there's no "holding the line" and no one is all that tough anyway.

I see the point everyone's making that a raise is really a success, but the thing you have to watch out for there is SW is a system where you always wish you had more in every attribute.  If you want consistent raises on Shaken rolls, you should be raising Spirit and buying the appropiate Edges imho.

If success = raise, that player who put all his/her points in Spirit suddenly feels a little less rewarded.  Gotta watch for that.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:30, Fri 27 Apr 2012.

OMG Blackthorn is such a mess.  Honestly at this point the army should have come in.

In reply to Wildcat Hawkins (msg #857):

"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

I've got to ask a few questions about how some substantive things are different between the Savage Worlds version of Deadlands, and the original Deadlands.

Mainly, how does one know that another is Harrowed in Deadlands: Reloaded? Obviously the Seven of Spades shot Adrian and killed him dead, and besides he's from the Royal Court, so he knows that Deputy Vega is Harrowed. But how does Alouette know? Is there a dice roll or something?

I'm just curious about the mechanics, now that the information is being widely disseminated.

I think Alouette is the best possible example of how trappings make things mysterious.  That's my theory.

You'll also notice that the automaton refers to the enemy shaman as its totem animal, it calls Wildcat "the other angel", etc.  I'm not sure what the clank is under the hood, I'm guessing it has an Arcane Background with some powers swapped out for others since it seems to think Wildcat is the same type of creature as it is.

I think the Clank has some kind of Detect Arcana or Hunch like ability with a very peculiar trapping and a heap big Knowledge Occult die.  The only thing the clank can't seem to consistently identify are hucksters until he sees them use powers.

Wildcat herself at this point might or might not have the tools to piece it all together here but I think a Knowledge Occult roll is entirely fair for several reasons:

1.  WC is one of the few who now believes Alouette is exactly what he says he is.  "Self is angel."  She reasons he knows more than his strange words can coherently express to mere mortals.  I could go into all sorts of reasons why but who cares.

2.  She has now heard the clank describe Danny Boy, who she knows for a fact is a possessed monster risen from the grave as differently alive before.

3.  Wildcat figured out there could now be more vampires or more vampire disease carriers (possibly including herself).  But she has not been able to verify it happened to Mr. Micklethwait.

4.  Seven's testimony is damning.  It sounds crazy to other people, but not to Wildcat.

Of course the funny thing is if she figures it out, all you're going to get is more help keeping it a damn secret.  XD

Pretty much...Alouette was using its version of Detect Arcana (using more of the spirit's power to "turn up" its sensitivity and see more like the Hawk does) to "see" the Invisible Mayor (or rather his cloaking spell) during the random riot: it caught sight of you during the fracas and has seen the very handsome crow-spirit now living in your chest. That's a bit of an obvious indicator someone's differently alive.
[Private to Adrian Vega: It has Hunch too, though, just mostly limited to the Hawk's use, which is how it imitated Adrian's mother - a voice now only heard in the spirit realm. It can't Hunch anything without blood(/-line to follow) or a dead person/the Hunting Grounds involved...unfortunately its warnings/prophesies tend to come out gibberish because she's speaking a second language whilst on the spirit-binding equivalent of a cocktail of antipsychotic sedatives and enough vodka to kill a Comanche]

It knows William's a vampire because not only can it see his Belt Demon and his ghost friends to indicate something's up, but the slight aetheric variations denoting a Harrowed's condition - it's seen aetheric "tracks" like William's before, going to the theatre, and they're not exactly cannibal-like like Danny's or very even and normal like yours, or vivid and serpentine like Gus', so when everyone said there were vampires in the theatre it immediately pegged that aetheric signature as vampiric. (If people had described the theatre as only full of burlesque dancers after the "monster" description, it'd think William and Vinny were some of those.)
[Private to GM: Oh, and since it's seen William's "ghost friends", may I have a rough description of them, in case it has to prove it?]

Other characters just have to notice...
This message was last edited by the player at 16:10, Fri 27 Apr 2012.

That oddly makes a lot of sense.  If that's how the clank perceives the supernatural, it wouldn't be able to pick out a Huckster by sight without seeing them cast spells because there's no manitou involved until the Huckster summons and tricks said spirit.

Strangely enough it shouldn't be able to perceive Blessed at all by the same logic.  Hmmm.

The difference (to me) would be that Blessed have Faith (yes with a capital F) which is with them all the time.

Wow. There have been a ton of posts this morning.

On the shaken issue: Since no one has taken Combat Reflexes thus far, I don't feel as if I'm stepping on any toes with this. I want to keep raises relevant, but tip it in favor of having a success do something on the turn you roll it. Also, Spirit is the primary source of resistance against Fear, making it essential for Deadlands anyway. I think the vast majority of Spirit rolls made in this game so far have been either to resist fear or resist hostile magic. I hardly think anyone who invests in Spirit will feel cheated by this.

@ CB: I've been keeping up with the threads on Shaken in the Pinnacle forums, actually...it's where the "action at -2 MAP" idea came from.

@ William: Milburn is not a deputy. He's a hired gun that works for the mayor, currently acting as a liaison between the mayor (who has left town for the safety of the Circle W) and the law.

@ Adrian: As mentioned, Alouette has an Arcane Background and the Detect Arcana and Hunch powers (and uses both quite frequently). The trappings are that they're information detected by the "angel" that powers Alouette. Otherwise, it might take a Heal or Knowledge (Occult) check of someone examining a Harrowed to detect them (plus the Notice roll to detect the smell of grave earth).

[Private to Alouette: There's four of them. One is an older man dressed as a famer, one is dressed a lot like Carl, one is holding a bible and otherwise dressed as a homesteader, and one wears spectacles and is dressed as a bank teller.]

Gotcha, that helps with my understanding greatly, and my appreciation of what's going on - as a player, like the reader of a story, I like to just have a pulse on what's going on even if my character doesn't.

Thanks folks :)

In reply to Wildcat Hawkins (msg #862):

Which is why Alouette freaks out when hucksters cast spells around it. And CB has the right of it...it sees the holy touch. I have no idea what Alouette sees when Mad Scientists use their powers around it...it hasn't actually come up. I know Alouette can detect a Device, though.

Witchcraft!

Additionally, before Wildcat was officially Blessed she was an androgenous thing (to the clank: it still isn't sure if all women have legs really or just Gangatsu) whose primary command was clearly "Protect!" and got shot a lot, so clearly she was an angel, too. Then she got powers to prove it! Her soul is generally shiny, though.

Wildcat also knows Jesse is differently alive 'cause she shot him herself (but nobody cares about Jesse*, least of all Wildcat).

No additional input on unshaking from this corner, it is confusing to me.

*except Carl, but he's thinking of other things like being tortured to death by Comanche right now, so not really him either.

If I were another type of Character (Freiherr von Steinhof, for example, since some know him ;-) ), at this:


I might be pointin' out that if he shot you for assault, armed robbery, attempted murder and the like we should probably shoot you again! :-)

A less than ideal construction, perhaps, but one that works if you could but read it properly :)

But I fixed it up for you, and anyone else that might have been confused
This message was last edited by the player at 18:44, Fri 27 Apr 2012.

Aw, man, I just loved the natural-sounding confusing kinda way that was phrased.

Haha. Perhaps I should have left it was it was.

I sort of have an OCD about fixing mistakes though, so I would have been a little hard pressed to keep myself from doing a retrospective edit.

You're not the only one with a tendancy towards idiosyncratic use of commas, if it helps.



Like something with access to huge inhuman cosmic intelligence and the comprehensive abilities of a slightly autistic six-year-old?

Well, yes.

Kudos, by the way to how you play Alouette. And kudos to The Stray for allowing such a character in the first place!

Yay Alouette!

Hee, yay - and to think, it's named for a tune all of France associates with strippers...

I think I shouls get some steel plates sown intobthe back of my coat. Been shit in the back twice now within an hour or so of game time!

I thought it was a kids song...



I can see how that would be unpleasant, and certainly not fragrant.

---

Also...finding it odd/hilarious that the Ranger player changes the subject to Men in Black Dusters, the name of the Classic Agency supplement.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:52, Fri 27 Apr 2012.

I'm not sure cast iron underwear would even help with that problem.

Of singing: that too, but like the English nursery rhyme I Love Little Pussy that doesn't mean it's not a barrack and backalley entertainment favourite. Une alouette being femminine, it is a song about how the singer will pluck sweet lady lark's feathers off slowly and systematically, so it's hardly surprising.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:10, Fri 27 Apr 2012.

I know someone in town who could actually get one of the Agency's armored black dusters for you, William...question is, how much is your soul worth for it? ;)