The idea is pervasive in modern media, I think: it just gets pronounced in historical fantasies (especially Westerns, a genre traditionally without women, barring whores) because a lot of people aren't aware of just how strongly biased towards the views of old white men History as a dicipline is (and see archaeologists as digging for treasure, not evidence with which to supplement and remedy the bias of past records).

So gamers and other storytellers today think 'well, I don't want to play a normal 19th-century woman, they didn't do anything except occasionally get chased around by sex-crazed bandits and native folk' and head for the other extreme, making the supposedly abnormal character as un- traditionally femminine and physically capable of destroying said bandits and savages (via weaponry, of course - a brawny or just plain big woman is still not automatically considered by most because the template we're repeatedly shown is slender and 21-century-stereotypical-attractive) as possible.

...is Sarah going to give Billy those carrots?

In reply to Alouette (msg # 38):

Missed that you posted, sorry.

Physically, I wanted to model Sarah after Lady Sybil Ramkin.  They've both got a very forceful personality and imposing physique, and I thought playing a non-waif would be more interesting.  She's not attractive, but she does have a lot of character; that's why I wanted to go the way I did with her Edges.  Attractive wouldn't ever fit her, but she needed the bonuses to be able to cow people.  Or in this case, cow cows.  :P

Speaking totally off-topic (because I can't think of anything to add) but having something tangentially related to cows, did you know that "Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo" is actually a grammatically correct sentence? It means "Buffalo bison that other Buffalo bison bully, themselves bully Buffalo bison."

I love English sometimes.

In reply to Alouette (msg # 38):

I'm not as certain that gamers are choosing to actively discard the idea of playing "normal 19th century" men/woman, so much as that they are influenced by other factors away from that even being a choice. To begin with, they may not have had exposure to the knowledge of what life actually was like in that time period. Adding onto that, they have likely been exposed to more modern media that presents a more attractive picture of things. I think it's more likely that the possibility of playing such a character (for example, a matronly 19th century woman who became a cattle rustler to feed her children after her husband died in the war) just never occurred to the player.

With Deadlands specifically, take into account that it's intended as a horror Spaghetti Western, we start with a baseline of Hollywood's inaccuracies as part of the setting itself. So in some ways, a "stereotype" character is arguably more appropriate than one that is highly period accurate.

In reply to The Stray (msg # 40):

That buffalo business just boggles the mind. I read it up on Wikipedia, and it is craziness.

[laughing] Sorry, Stray. Hee...that is a lot of buffalo. Mind you, I've heard you can do that for pages in Mandarin and other strongly tonal languages.

@ Sister Sarah - Presence suits a preacher. It strikes me that she might've got her willingness to believe in people (deep down, anyway) from living off Southern hospitality provided in pretty much famine conditions as a kid. As for the cows...y'know, I'm going to give you a white chip there for setting yourself up and making me look clever, since you don't have them coming out of your ears yet.

@ Adrian - Aye, and indeed - that setting-based discouragement was what I meant with the "gamers making things-for-guys like the things-for-guys they grew up with" bit. They can research! ...but if they're not inclined to, they'll think there's a lot more options for interesting male characters, since again, all you see in the genre are whores and the odd weak-and-milky who wants no more than True Love and frequently needs saving around. Maybe a gunslinger who gets stared at for being female. Only the latter's a particularly attractive playable option, hence the pileup of them Sarah mentioned.

I would argue that if a genre gets stuck in defining itself more and more exclusively, it will kill itself and all its potential to come back roaring...and c'mon, zombies, mechas and giant spiders more commonly sighted than female engineers in a setting that should theoretically have both? There's something up with that.

Note the belated joker post, folks!

Well, the setting should theoretically have both mecha-spiders and women engineers, definitely - but at that point, it's on the players for not rolling them up. I don't know what can be done about that really, besides coercing players to play certain character types, which (from experience) I don't think will work out favorably.

I'll do my part, though: I pledge that my next Deadlands character will be a woman. (I might forget, remind me if you notice).

If you haven't seen this, you should, now. http://youtu.be/PGzghUQRVk8

Didn't we end an OOC thread with that film once? I do love the Undertaker and his crow buddies, they're just like "doop doop, doin' our jobs..." ^_^

On the theme of great short flimage, some of the raptor animation in Eyrie is pretty awesome...hell, the only Hobbit film I bothered to watch didn't pay that much attention to its birds (as well as giving the eagles chicken feet).

@Adrian - mostly, but also the GMs for not making it clear they're there and interesting to be rolled up, and the devs for putting all their focus on sexay fighter ladies when female humans are mentioned at all, like nigh-every game before them. Increasing background presence would be a good start, I think - just things that make all us jaded folk used to seeing the 83% male world of films go 'oh, the bank teller/bartender/blacksmith/brave/bumblebee guy is female...huh...but then why wouldn't she be?' so that folk have options other than 'whore, gunslinger or meek Victorian lady potentially replaceable with a lamp for all her effect on the plot' in their head already.

That is a noble undertaking! Also like two games at once, trying to stay out of the worse trope tarpits. [salutes] I will remember.


On the theme of remembering things, have we fed the mortals all day? JohnJohn might've offscreen and Evans has gained a few calories from alcohol at least, but I don't think Jake's eaten since breakfast...which would account for the ornery...

That's definitely something that I'll have to take into account. And yes, I'll try to avoid tropes and stereotypes to an extent (though I'm not ruling out a gunslinger, because that's sorta what I wanted to play next regardless).

There are less-overdone flavours of gunslinger out there, I reckon...those fabled pale-eyed Tennesse snipers would've got even more specialised over a long war, for instance. Or you could have one that used to roam around shooting people very fast in the typical manner, but is now settled and doing steady work that may or may not relate to shooting people to put food on the table. Or a reformed scalper, weighted for ambush as well as gun skills...or a native far more competent with grand-uncle's rifle and its status-rich history of being traded about than most are with modern weapons...yep, there's room in 'gunslinger' yet.

Unrelatedly, today from the BBC news website's 'Victorian strangeness' series, a dude who died in the most steampunk non-explosion-related fashion I can currently think of: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blog...ine-monitor-27527035

It is a pity they don't have "Morgan Freeman colour" on the standard set...the fellow's voice isn't exactly Red, but it's not RoyalRed or Brown, either...

I wonder if Evans wants Adrian to hold Spades down whilst he kicks him over there...

It amuses me that both Adrian and Spades are basically meeting the same kind of resistance to their issues with each other. You could even make their sentences interchangeable:
"This guy, this one, right here, he is blatantly a murderous bastard/dead guy...why does no-one care about this?"

*hem* Oh, and Jake, try not to set your moth friend on fire: it does not make them easier to catch.

Actually, I was going to ask Adrian something, which is why I've been waiting on him.

Sorry about that - been a little busy. I've posted now though.

Lol JUMANJI!

Strangely enough, Ward doesn't seem to own a game of Snakes and Ladders.

I missed that the first time round - you almost caused a literal spit take.

http://youtu.be/6e1RBEyBFDo?t=47s

I'm posting this for you all because it's funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH1PJTY9AVA

How high up is the window?
Is there any stackable furniture?

You could get through the bit of the inner window/s that opens by grabbing someone to move the desk and balancing a chair on it, but you'd have the same drop the other side to deal with.

Evans' Aetheric Disturbance Detector can determine which/how much of the lower panels are safe to break, though. The bottom of the inside windows're about waist high to Adrian, so for that you'd need a chair at most.

Joker post delayed a wee bit 'til I've moved the clank downstairs, so that all effects are together - whilst the Hawk has the strength and could possibly be persuaded to dismantle the barricade, if she did she'd immediately try to eat the Mayor.

Thanks for the info. I'll figure somethin' out.

Joker post? I didn't use the Joker I drew, for the record.

Also: Is it theoretically possible that with a ridiculous strength roll the door could be pushed open? And what kind of TN would someone need to hit for that?
This message was last edited by the player at 19:40, Wed 23 July 2014.

There's always the other option of making some kind of blanket ladder, abseiling out of the outside windows and running around the building to the carriage house/back door (mind William's noise trap)...or blowing up the floor...or getting JohnJohn, Gangassu or Zhang to punch the lock out of the door/Evans to sonic screwdriver it, work the metal loose and reach/stick a spoon through the holes thus left to knock the curtain rail away, leaving only the sheer weight of the objects piled in front to be dealt with...many options. Probably ones I haven't considered, too.

I saw - you don't have to use one for chips to happen and Alouette's Schizto Hinderance to go off, just draw one (I checked!).

Ach...well, since you're basically dealing with weight on a lever acting as a deadlock, I'd say you'd be aiming for 10 (standard metal object toughness) plus...hang on whilst I convert the bloody rules to metric...call the chest 15, the drawers 25kg...*calculates* for Adrian (Str d8) that'd be an encumberance of -2 to shift, so in theory I make it a base Strength roll of 12 to make the door moveable, 16 to push everything far enough to actually do something with it like wiggle out.

Possibly persuading some N/PCs to help (hilariously, I think everyone in there's feebler than Adrian bar William and Gangatsu - get them to snuggle up and help you push!) for a co-op effort would make things easier.

Gotcha. Unspecified Joker talk just gets me nervous, because though I've never actually used a Joker that I've drawn, I've suffered backlash before because I did not sufficiently emphasize my lack of Joker use (at the time I didn't know the rules well enough to contest it). So now I try to be super super clear that I'm not using the Joker, because backlash sucks.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:22, Wed 23 July 2014.

I think the Stray just got confused on the Joker-drawing rules that one time, but it is helpful to see! I will try to keep my Joker Posts specific. This one is about...beets.



[double thumbs up]

If only that poem were in iambic pentameter it would be so much better.

So my plan is to use ++witchery to boost up Adrian's strength to crazy amounts, and the ladies in question as well (assuming they agree to help).
This message was last edited by the player at 21:23, Wed 23 July 2014.