In reply to Smoker Nix (msg #8):

Don,

How have you seen Templars usually played? As in, how is Arthur's angle different than normal?

Andy,

Have fun! I went to the 3rd world and couldn't get away from the internet aside from the jungle in northern Thailand! If need be Smoker will be NPCd as appropriate.

What about Hindrances the Marshall has to use?  Outlaw, for example.  I can't make Law Dogs appear and question me.

I call that a Redneck Assault Vehicle.

That's sensible. So we've got Jane and Firecrow up front in the 'technical', myself in the cab of the rig and Brother Edgar in the rear pickup mending fences with the locals. I've presumably got a trailer full of brother Edgar's mutant refugees. What about the rest of you?

Kind of, there is a two man sandbagged fighting position on top of the cab. It provides level 5 armour which is nice.

Kind of, there is a two man sandbagged fighting position on top of the cab. It provides level 5 armour which is nice.

I'd assumed this was at the top back of the van trailer. On top of the cab, they can't see very well to the rear because of the trailer. In fact, no one can see to the immediate rear aside from mirrors!

If there is no rear position, I'd stick Schaeffer up there as he's got a radio and is armed to the teeth! He's pretty stable there with a tie-down or bungee cord to secure him.

I had assumed this (the rear position) to be the case as well. Anyone got a piece of rope?

Weapons which would be awesome in Deadlands Episode 1: The Marlin 1895 GS
AKA The Marlin Guide Gun



Why it's cool: The .45-70 Government cartridge and lever action rifle have been, in the real world, around for quite a long time now in the continental United States.  Indeed, the cartridge saw extensive action in the what we call The Old West.  This modern rendition uses fewer moving parts than some old models and has better materials, and can withstand very powerful loads the old timers never even thought about.

Why it's practical: The .45-70 cartridge would be freakin' awesome in the world of the Wasted West.  For one thing the flexibility is incredible.  A modern 300 grain .45-70 cartridge, at 100 yards, out of the Guide Gun, is going over 1900 fps with over 3300 ft lbs of energy.  (A .308, for comparison, is pushing 2800 fps and 3100 ft lbs of energy, depending on the load, etc.).  People in Alaska regularly kill Grizzly Bears with these things, so it should do pretty well against most monsters and horrors.

This anachronistic weapon would have some unique combat advantages.  While a modern plate might prevent penetration, the injuries from being hit would be substantial anyway as the crushing trauma (Google that) should readily kill or incapacitate.  The round is a survivalist favorite for its ability to defeat modern body armor without really trying.  Also, the bullet shape or type could feasibly be anything (but see below).  A hard cast FMJ round should readily penetrate dang near anything.

So on the one hand you have got a lot of power if you need it.  OTOH, the .45-70 is an old blackpowder cartridge, and the brass itself is quite durable and can be reloaded many times.  If you have black powder, scrap lead, and the simplest of reloading tools, you should be able to keep yourself in ammunition for quite some time.  Such loads wouldn't be nearly as effective, but the point is you could make them easily.

It's also worth mentioning one could feasibly pare down to a "powder puff" load which would still kill a man while being relatively quiet. This probably wouldn't work against the aforementioned body armor so well, but it's unique option and a flexibility that a more modern semiautomatic or select fire rifle can't offer.  Since the action of the firearm is manual, there's no need to worry about any given cartridge not generating enough recoil to cycle the action.  Additionally, this means it would tolerate inconsistent loads fairly well.

In fact, a savvy brainer could feasibly keep loose rounds on either side of his person, some for big heavy nasty targets, and some of the less powerful loads too.

The Marlin action itself is incredibly strong with very few moving parts.  Since the firearm is a simple design and made of modern stainless steel, it would be difficult to break it or damage it with neglect.  It could feasibly be cleaned with hot water and soap, and it shouldn't rust under most circumstances with minimal care unlike its blued counterparts.  Just a little oil should go a long way with the Guide Gun.

Downsides: Effective range.  The .45-70 has about a hundred inches of drop at 400 yards, so this ain't your sniper rifle.  It hits very hard over a relatively short practical range.

Manual action.  Although lever guns were the assault rifles of their day, they just don't throw as much lead.

Limited capacity - the magazine only holds four rounds.

Possibly limited to certain bullet shapes - Leverguns don't like pointy bullets.  The Marlin XLR series works with them but this style ammunition would be pretty hard to find scavenging anyway.

Suggested improvements: Shotgun Scope (you won't be shooting much beyond 200 yards with a gun typically, and the recoil can be something fierce, so the 2x power on a typical shotgun scope should be sufficient for use 90% of the time), Trigger Job, XS sights

In reply to Ian Roadkill Colby (msg #73):

Smoker is in the cab and he's got an FN. Not exactly a heavy weapon but it's better than nothing!

Tony

Possible New Weapons:

LATR: 1-Shot Light Anti-Tank Rocket common to the NA. Roughly equivalent to the AT Micro-Missile, but cheaper. Soft-Launch.
LAPR: 1-Shot Light Anti-Personnel Rocket common to the NA. Roughly equivalent to the AP Micro-Missile, but cheaper. Soft-Launch.
RPG-7M: Rocket Launcher common to the Lat-Am Alliance. Night-Vision capability. Roughly equivalent to the SA Rocket Launcher.

Any ideas on a replacement cost for a SA Rocket? I'm assuming it's not $2000 per round! Heck, even an LGAT missile is only $500.

Would there be an NA equivalent to the SA Rocket Launcher or do you figure the note wrong and there's one generic type made by both the SA and NA?

Firing a cut-down 7.62mm assault rifle by hand, wow!)

To resolve these questions I propose the following: the 5.56mm and 7.62mm rounds of HoE are not the same rounds in those calibres used today, and supersede them. They represent a generic STANAG round for either the Northern (5.56mm NAATO) or Southern Alliance Treaty Organisations (7.62mm SATO). Therefore, all 5.56mm ammunition is interchangeable, and all 7.62mm ammunition is interchangeable.

For the sake of argument, I'll say that even vintage designs like the FN FAL and AK-47 use NAATO or SATO calibres.

Note, the .50 pistol round is not interchangeable with .50 BMG.

For that matter, I wouldn't suggest firing a Ksyukha or Okurok (aka AKSU) one-handed! A player in my T2K game has this, which is the 5.45x39mm AKS-74U with the 40-round magazine.

I'd just like to say how awesome it is that everyone in this game is so active and into it.  My first RPOL game that really felt active and engaging.  Awesome.

1) There is firing position on the cab. There's a roof hatch in the sleeper section behind the driver, but not sandbags.

2) It's a mile or two back to the Interstate. I would imagine it could be done but at 1 or 2 miles per hour to avoid jackknifing.

3) If there was no trailer, reversing would be no problem. Even off-road would be no problem for the tractor. It has good ground clearance if not an actual off-road suspension, and while the tires aren't off-road it has loads of power in the bottom end, where it counts.

I'd just like to say how awesome it is that everyone in this game is so active and into it.  My first RPOL game that really felt active and engaging.  Awesome.

Chance City had been abandoned for something like 200 years. The odds of there being anything other than some adobe and stone walls was slight, a snowplow, non-existent.

When Dakota Jack called him Hans, the Colonel couldn't help rolling his eyes. It was always the same with the Amis. Somebody would call him "Kraut" next, but in that case, his reaction would be anything but friendly.

Even worse than Dakota's ignorance was Firecrow's implied insult. A proud man, Shaeffer was not going to let that slide so easily.

"Well yes, I've got a working radio in my helmet. But surely we'll be able to use smoke signals or drums to let you know of what we find. Maybe you would be more comfortable with those, ja?"

BTW, what was Firecrow's implied insult? I've reread the posts a couple of times and I still don't get what set Schaeffer off.

Peter's not that kind of Indian

While *I* as a player laughed, as stated in the Character Details? Peter's not that kind of Indian. LOL!

Note: the Posting guidelines have been changed. I've decided to let players make their own combat and other Aptitude rolls. Do you want me to remind you all to make Search and Scavenge checks, for example? Or let you think of it yourselves (or not)?

Tony

I think there's been a lot of confusion here with who is where and all that, and it is nice that everyone is going fast and all, but if we could come up with a way to be sure where everybody is, that would be great.

The group was split into three elements.

(Marshall's Note: In the future, please refer to the tactical map posted in the Reference Threads so you're all clear on who's where.)

http://tinyurl.com/3x6hc6w

One part of the posse was in Chance City in the Victorio Mountains, with Smoker even further on his own in a mineshaft.

Another was in Gage City on the Interstate, with the rig.

The last was in between, with Peter's pickup on the road south of Gage City in the foothills of the Victorio Mountains, at the foot of the dirt road to Chance city with the Chosen who'd been dropped off.

None of the groups have visual contact with each other. The group in Chance City may not even be in radio contact any longer, as Schaeffer's IB helmet doesn't quite have the range to Peter's truck. Smoker's walkie-talkie does, but he's underground.

Posse,

If people want to make a TN 5 Occult roll they will have heard about the Reckoners. Raises will be needed to know anything true about them.

Tony

However, Templar indoctrination is informal and Arthur's previous knowledge may mislead him or taint his knowledge. For example, he may know of the Four Horsemen but have a view that is based on of the Book of Revelations.

Ultimate Handguns of the Wasted West

Part Numero Uno: The Glock 17

Why it's cool: It sort of isn't, actually.  Now to a gun nutter like myself it is cool because it's a classic, but lots of people who really like guns actually don't "like" this gun for various reasons (I myself actually favor the model 19).  To some it may be cool because it's iconic.  But to a lot of people, especially those who only appreciate guns from a speculative fiction perspective, it's just boring.  Even people from countries where you generally can't own a handgun can recognize the Glock Model 17 and that makes it boring.  On the other hand, the widespread adoption of this firearm the world over means it's turned up in many roles in many places, and that makes it awesome to some people.

Some would argue it's not very western.  I disagree.  The iconic Old West handgun, the Colt Single Action Army or something similar would have been the gunslinger's weapon of choice (Indeed Earp himself favored the Buntline special), because it was the best handgun technology of its time.

However I submit to you that while the 'cool' factor may be hit or miss, this could be the first handgun of choice for your brainer for lots of reasons:

Why it's practical: The Glock would be relatively easy to find, they are absolutely everywhere in the Western US that you could find people.  Magazines, holsters, accessories and parts are ubiquitous.  If you're in a place where you could have bought a personal computer before the bomb dropped, you're in a place you can probably find a Glock.

The Glock design has only 34 parts.  That's it.  Now combine that with the fact that they are everywhere, and that you can dissassemble it nearly entirely with a ball point pen, and in all honesty many common repairs could be affected with little or no mechanical skill, you have one of the simplest to own and operate firearms on the planet.

The reliability and functionality under terrible conditions is legendary.  The US Army performed a well publicized and documented torture test of the pistol as it digested 50,000 rounds of ammunition without mechanical failure.  There are documented cases on the internet of people burying their Glocks in sand, ice, and mud, only to pull them out and have them fire without a proper cleaning.  In addition, in at least one case the pistol has been dropped out of an airplane, run over, beat with a hammer, and shot with another Glock and continued to function.  Owners have reported firing thouands of rounds without any cleaning.  They survive lack of proper maintenance incredibly well.  This would be an ideal weapon in the dusty plains of the irradiated west.

As it's chambered in 9x19 (there are models in other calibers but I'm discussing the model 17 here), ammunition supplies would be adequate for many years after the bomb fell, but see notes in the next section.

Downsides: Unsupported firing chamber.  This is the big one.  It's not a particularly good idea to fire reloads in a stock Glock pistol, although there is a workaround in the upgrades section.

Factory sights are serviceable but generally suck.  Then again they're better than the sights on nearly any handgun from the 19th century.  The sights are generally fairly durable but being plastic, they can break if the gun is dropped in just the right way.

Other downsides are very subjective.  It's clunky, it's got an awkward grip, it's ugly, etc.

Suggested Improvements: While there are tons of improvements made to Glocks by owners, most of them are cosmetic or involve lightening the trigger with a 3.5# disconnector.  These wouldn't really help survivors.  Some changes would however:

- Aftermarket barrels can offer a supported firing chamber without affecting reliability.  While improvements in accurancy are also possible, the effect probably wouldn't matter enough for game purposes.

- Better sights.  Also, every 3rd generation Glock, probably the most common variant, has a standard rail for accessories such as laser sights or lights.

- While this isn't an upgrade per se, there are factory made 33 round magazines for the Glock 17 which are reliable.  It would be harder to find these than the standard 17 round magazines, they do exist and most gun stores usually have a couple so there'd be a few around.

- There does exist the Glock 18, which is a select fire variant of the model 17.  This could easily be a character's dream handgun, especially with the 33 round magazines.  There are however only a few (some estimate as few as 100) in private hands in the entire U.S. due to the limited utility of such a thing and the highly restrictive laws surrounding it.  Police agencies are not likely to adopt it.  However, the factory has made and sold conversion kits for police and military buyers to convert the model 17, so clearly with the right parts it might be possible to make one.  You're gonna need a friendly Junker with serious gunsmithing chops and a full blown machine shop, amigo.

Tony,

there's actually two things missing on the Improvement cheat sheet:

new Specializations cost 3 Bounty Points and Aptitudes cost their new level untill Lvl 5; above 5 it's New Level x2.

Marc

2d6 Guts??? Stupid template! lol! I guess I know what *I'M* buying up first. sheesh. =D

In reply to Arthur Dayne (msg #178):

Wax,

Yeah, sometimes the numbers don't add up, neither.

Ha! Looking at the rolls I see I accidentally copied the "Fudged Die" tag. Note to self: not very subtle.

Hey, speaking of subtle, "Weak in the Knees" means you "lose your lunch". This includes Peter, Roadkill, Edgar and Dakota!

Lastly, I assume when Schaeffer is scrounging for "useful materials" he means food, fuel, weapons and ammunition.

Tony

Hey, speaking of subtle, "Weak in the Knees" means you "lose your lunch". This includes Peter, Roadkill, Edgar and Dakota!

Tony

Weak in the Knees:

The victim loses 1d6 Wind. At grotesque scenes, he loses his lunch and staggers away, choking the entire way.

So how do people listen or take part in a conversation that's taking place so far from them without haveing moved in any way?

Haha, COL Kurt Schaeffer should have been nicknamed Rip.  I knew a German sharpshooter reminded me of something...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz8A6f4r2do

I pop the video in, and wow… Tears welling, silence, goose-bumps… Wow. [I felt like] I just lost my girlfriend, because that song isn't mine anymore… It really made me think about how powerful music is as a medium and art form. I wrote some words and music in my bedroom as a way of staying sane, about a bleak and desperate place I was in, totally isolated and alone. [Somehow] that winds up reinterpreted by a music legend from a radically different era/genre and still retains sincerity and meaning — different, but every bit as pure.

As a reminder, Jane also has an HI Hellfire SAW (which only she can use).

It is a real weapon. SAW version of the British assault rifle (the SA80/L85). Just can't remember its designation...ah, here it is http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg37-e.htm.

Seriously, I don't know anybody, be it a generic gun nut, a Class III aficonado, a kid who played too much Counterstrike, that likes the SA80 family of weapons.  The most negative comments seem to come from UK residents.

Being an ugly American myself, I only have personal experience with the AR15 when it comes to 5.56x45 and never really researched the platform.  Are the SA80 platforms that bad?  I know it has all the design flaws of a bullpup but that doesn't seem to justify all the crap it seems to get.

Interesting.  It sounds very similar to the bad rap the M16 and AR15 get due to the problems the M16A1 had.

Sorry - that was a little harsh of me.

I don't think you hurt the rifle's feelings.