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20:28, 18th April 2024 (GMT+0)

Military: Land forces, weapons and so on.

Posted by BrygunFor group 0
Brygun
GM, 21 posts
Sat 14 Jul 2012
at 03:04
  • msg #1

Military: Land forces, weapons and so on

Dealing with all things related to the military armies of the time period.
Brygun
GM, 24 posts
Sat 14 Jul 2012
at 03:07
  • msg #2

Re: Military: Land forces, weapons and so on

Space 1889's Soldiers Companion has an excellent work on the armies of the time. However, when they mention numbers generally multiple by 10 for the scaling they used for miniature battles.
Brygun
GM, 41 posts
Sat 14 Jul 2012
at 19:28
  • msg #3

Re: Military: Land forces, weapons and so on


1880 Firearms pricing and info by Brygun

The price listings are catalogue/factory prices. At distant locations the prices can be 2-3 times greater. Where I have little data and estimated the price you will see ‘est’.

Revolver, Colt SAA $15 (single action, gated)
Revolver, Swith and Wesson No3 $18est (single action, break open)
Revolver, Enfield No. 1 $18est (double action, gated with special extractor)

Winchester 1873 lever action rifle $19.50 (24” barrel, holds 13+1 shots, in 44-40 or others )
Winchester 1873 lever action carbine $17.50 (20” barrel, holds 10+1 Shots, popular with riders)

Rifle Remington rolling block $30+  (26” barrel, single shot breech loader)
Rifle Remington Mid-range $37
Rifle Remington Creedmoor $100-$150+ (excellent long range)

Rifle, Sharps $33+ (single shot, 12 lbs of heavy reliable rifle, in 45-70, popular in movies)

Shotgun, single $10est (break open, single shot)
Shotgun, Ithaca double gun $17.75+ (break open, typically 12 gauge)
Shotgun, coach gun $20est (purposefully short double barrel, typically 10 gauge)
Shotgun, single trap $85.00+ (trap shotguns are custom fitted to the user for competition shooting)





A note on firearms:

Revolver actions:

Single action revolver:
Single action you must work, or fan, the pistol to shoot. Harder to use two pistols at once but possible. Known for being very reliable. Most common type both for the lower cost and for still working after travelling on the dusty trails.

Double action revolver:
The trigger works the hammer for you. Easier to use two guns or from horseback with the other hand holding the reigns. More complexity means may have reliability issues.


Revolver loading:

Ball and cap revolver:
Before the invention of the brass cartridge black powder, wad and ball are loaded into each chamber.  Takes a long time to load. Was the first revolver types replaced by single action. Still present on older guns. May also be found among specialists who like to choose how much powder to load.

Gated revolver:
Brass cartridges are loaded through a gate on the side. Once one is loaded the revolver is rotated to align the next chamber. Slower than break opens but it was the technology widely available at the time. When you see the cowboy hiding, fiddling with one bullet at a time, advancing the revolver and repeating you know it’s a gated revolver. Figure on 30-60 seconds to load.

Break open revolver:
A revolver that hinges forward to expose all revolver chambers at once. In the process of flipping forward an extractor pushes the existing rounds making it possible to remove them or dump them on the ground. Faster loading than gated and can use speed loaders.

Swing open revolver:
The revolving cylinder only flops to one side to give access to the chambers.

Single shot breech loading rifles:
The explosive forces inside the rifle were still difficult to control. A powerful long range cartridge would break a lever action. Military, long range or big game hunting and sharpshooting was done with single shot rifles. These loaded a cartridge at the user end for a listed rate of fire of up to 12 rounds a minute.  Snipers would go slower and mad fire of skilled users might get off more but not so well aimed.

Lever action rifles:
These use a lever to load and extract another cartridge. Ammunition is usually in a tube under the barrel giving many shots between reloads. A common weapon for riders and outlaws as it gave decent range and many bullets at the same time.

Firearm notes:
= There are a lot more guns and ammos then listed above.
= Often the same gun is available in different size calibers of bullets.
= Lever action rifles must use bullets without aerodynamic points as it could bump fire in the tube.
= The lever actions and revolvers could both be had in 44-40 ammunition. This combination was used by some so simplify their ammunition concerns.
= Stripper clips and small box magazines start to appear in the 1880s. Detachable box magazines are invented in 1893 on the Borchardt C93 pistol. No swapping mags in the Old West.
= Big rifles where generally single shot breechloading, such as the rolling block design, allowing a more powerful centerfire cartridge to be used.
= Rimfire rifle effective range 100-200 yards though ads claimed 300 yards .
= Centerfire rifle effective range 400 yards and a good marksman can score hits at a 1,000 yards.
= Scopes existed as brass tubes fitted onto the rifle or musket. Rather rare.
= Pump action rifles where invented in 1892 and pump action shotguns in 1893.
= I found mixed numbers on how many rounds fit in a Winchester 1873 in part this is due to the length of the different cartridges that might go in the tube. The carbine being shorter will hold less.

Weblinks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Single_Action_Army
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_and_Wesson_Model_3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfield_revolver
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Rifle
http://www.uberti.com/firearms...ifle-and-carbine.php
http://www.militaryfactory.com...asp?smallarms_id=270
http://findarticles.com/p/arti...is_1_51/ai_n7581227/
http://findarticles.com/p/arti..._12_51/ai_n15736804/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharps_rifle
http://www.americanrifleman.or...px?id=2332&cid=9
http://answers.yahoo.com/quest...0111001140622AADknQ6
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coach_gun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca_Gun_Company
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...ns_1916_a-oakley.jpg
Brygun
GM, 60 posts
Thu 19 Jul 2012
at 14:22
  • msg #4

Re: Military: Land forces, weapons and so on

http://www.ima-usa.com/nation/...e-victorian-era.html

Two barrel MG using the same ammo as the Zulu era rifle.
w byrd
player, 6 posts
Fri 20 Jul 2012
at 06:39
  • msg #5

Re: Military: Land forces, weapons and so on

These are a bit heavy for players ina  ame to be tinkering about with but the Hotchkiss guns are failry standard for the time era, including a rather wicked three barreld Gatling style 37mm cannon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotchkiss_gun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_3_pounder_Hotchkiss

Agar Gun
an early "cap and ball" macine gun. used standard paper cartridges placed in a metal tube. a very early form of metal cased round.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agar_gun

Baily Gun, a belt fed Gatling type weapon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailey_machine_gun

One of my favorite early repeaing weapons. The gardner gun. It woorked by mounting multiple barrels and mechanisms to a common chassi and fired each barrel in turn. It was simple and realtively effective for a primative system but was overlooked by most militaries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardner_gun
Boomcoach
player, 2 posts
Fri 20 Jul 2012
at 12:56
  • msg #6

Re: Military: Land forces, weapons and so on

In reply to w byrd (msg # 5):

OK, my players are going to hate you very soon!
Brygun
GM, 61 posts
Fri 20 Jul 2012
at 13:14
  • msg #7

Re: Military: Land forces, weapons and so on

Hotchkiss come in 1 pounder, 3 pounder and 6 pounder.

The 6 pounder fires a 6 pound shell. With the propellent and brass the complete catridge weighs 10 pounds.

The shells it fires are explosive rounds. That is the round is hollow and filled with explosive.

Handy thing for airships to have. Rapid fire explosions.

A proper crew is 2 not 1 as listed in 1889. One is aiming and cranking. The other is a loader putting on the clips that hold the cartridges.

IIRC I tracked down the 6 pounder is a 57mm shell. Just over 2 inches across.
Digital Mastermind
GM, 92 posts
Fri 20 Jul 2012
at 16:28
  • msg #8

Re: Military: Land forces, weapons and so on

I love you guys >.>  *Rubs his brass nipples*
w byrd
player, 7 posts
Fri 20 Jul 2012
at 23:29
  • msg #9

Re: Military: Land forces, weapons and so on

Boomcoach:
In reply to w byrd (msg # 5):

OK, my players are going to hate you very soon!


Heheheeeee Ah my Powers Grow with the hatred of each player...

And if you need some other goodies, I would suggest the gaatling gun in the 1 inche Bore.
http://www.victorianshipmodels...ing/gatling1865.html

or something as simple as a primative landmine which were in use as early as the Amreican civil war. usually they were a box or canister of black powder with a percussian cap detonator.

One improvised mine used in the "Old West" as a shotgun wired to a trip wire placed in a box filled with dynamite. This rig was wired to a fence post, so when the barbed witre fence it supported was cut the post would fall over and trigger the shotgun which set off the dynamite.




When you use such toys in campaign ya have to use them just a bit cuatiously.

The sheer destructive power of a rapid fire bursting round firing gun is pretty lethal to most players who are not wearing armor or have some means of soaking up/healing damage.A good way to use a weapon like a hotchkiss gun is to fire at first to force players to take cover, or avoid an area forcing them to find alternate paths to their goal.
  Using it as threat, or obstacle to be avoided instead of actually firing on a group is a great use of such nasties. If the players are silly enough to go toe to toe with a rapid fire weapon, or a fast firing cannon then perhaps they should purchase Character insurance.
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