OOC.   Posted by Mittens.Group: 0
Joe
 player, 251 posts
Sun 20 May 2012
at 22:18
Re: OOC
  I'm kind of burnt out on Sonic in general.  Might try, might not if a new Sonic deal is made.

  Heart of the Universe, my ramblings about it aside had some promise.  I just had some terrible luck with it is all.  Your stated intentions sound like they could work out (more so if you specified 4th Ed, less World Altering Rituals Made Easy at that tier in 4th Ed)

  Completely unrelated, I finally broke down and edited the post with the giant tables breaking image so that picture is just a text link.  Ghost Emmy remains readily visible, of course.

This message was last edited by the player at 22:20, Sun 20 May 2012.

Mittens
 GM, 198 posts
Mon 21 May 2012
at 17:08
Re: OOC
As mentioned I'll join whatever you start.  Admittedly I have mixed feelings.  On the one hand, happy fun RP with Tim.  Not to mention more post haz opportunity means less chance for me to wind up bored at work.  But I'm always nervous about starting up a whole new place that involves more than just a couple people.  Because of the fact that the more players there are, the higher chance of RL derailing and crashing the place.

Poor Care Bears forum.  You never made it past the 1st scene.  ;.;

And of course there's multiple examples of player expectations being an issue.  "Do you mean 'no stronger than Colossus?  or no stronger than Juggernaut?'"  "Wait... how come they get to have such uber stats?"  Etc.  Etc.


Anyway.  Moving right along.  You asked for suggestions.  I suggest a Heroes Guild-like place.  One that has a new thread for whenever the moods strikes you to write up an opening scene.  It can be Struggle for Hope Log 29, or it could be "Care Bears Meet Sonic in Space."  Or it could be "Cute Fuzzies in Dungeons and Dragons."  Whatever you're in the mood for, just start up a thread.  That way you can have as much freedom to flex your creativity muscles as you want.  You can have your ongoing RP with an established PC group going in the Logs and you can also have your one-shot x-game experiments going on too.  And given the episodic nature of Heroes Guild, it doesn't really matter if a player just suddenly vanishes in log 29.  Just start up Log 30 with the players still around.

In said place we could maybe possibly experiment with a Center of Universe thread or two.  Maybe with a dice system.  Maybe free form.  Whatever.  If it turns out that 1 PC is too Angel Summoner, can always just reboot the thread.  No big deal.
Joe
 player, 252 posts
Mon 21 May 2012
at 21:25
Re: OOC
Before I go out into the world...

Angel summoner Vs Angel Summoner!
"Angelic hordes come forth! Top that!"  "Angel Bard come forth!"  "...Oh *censored*
Purely for the sake of the joking mental image.  Angel Bard faction style probably would have been low key given old Heart Of Universe thread.

Also, started reading the orange text before I double taked and saw "Private to Eli".  You do remember I can read those here right?
Mittens
 GM, 199 posts
Tue 22 May 2012
at 03:41
Re: OOC
Yeah, heh.  Just put it in PM as a half joke to poke fun of all those [PM]s, half, "you can skip this part to save time if you want, Joe."  :P
Timothius
 GM, 89 posts
Tue 22 May 2012
at 15:28
Re: OOC
Joe:
Before I go out into the world...

Angel summoner Vs Angel Summoner!
"Angelic hordes come forth! Top that!"  "Angel Bard come forth!"  "...Oh *censored*
Purely for the sake of the joking mental image.  Angel Bard faction style probably would have been low key given old Heart Of Universe thread.


Heh. Made me laugh. :) Though another fun mental image: Yes she would have been lowish key, but nobody would've been able to read her mind. Even someone dedicated to that kind of power.

Though, give her the right kind of gun and all the sudden, she'd be keeping up with everyone else.
Mittens
 GM, 200 posts
Sun 27 May 2012
at 21:44
Re: OOC
Liz's laptop was bought for $350 used.
Mittens
 GM, 202 posts
Fri 8 Jun 2012
at 21:35
Re: OOC
Salow
- Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:25 am

You NEEEEEEEEEED to run this for me: Prince of Undeath: Adventure E3 for 4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons (4th Edition D&D)
It's EPIC level ...


Mittens
- Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:11 pm

Yes it is. It's the final installment of the first adventure path published for 4e. I've started that adventure path, oh... 4? 5 times? Rarely get's past lvl 3. I'm determined to make it through that entire adventure path from start to finish, so I don't want to skip forward to the end. I can talk with my other group about you joining up where we are right now, though. H2 (about lvl 4).

Salow
- Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:57 pm

Haha, that's cool ... i have a Star Wars Saga campaign that's from Lvl 1 to 20 ... I'd like to run that some day, but haven't had the time to read through it all yet.

Thoughts about including Salow in Thunderspire?  (He's a RL friend of Tim and I)
Terdisas
 GM, 350 posts
Fri 8 Jun 2012
at 21:41
Re: OOC
Two things mostly.

1) Remember why you moved a copy of that thread to this board?  Would that be avoided, track record and all that with your RL friends hopping in.
2) Would the sudden lack of maps, hitpoint tracking, etc.  let alone play by post style work for them?

If you think it will work out, then give it a shot.
Mittens
 GM, 203 posts
Sat 9 Jun 2012
at 05:30
Re: OOC
Only time will tell.  Worse comes to worse, his char will simply fade off panel like so many have in My Mutations and elsewhere.
Timothius
 GM, 90 posts
Sat 9 Jun 2012
at 05:37
Re: OOC
I'm fine with giving Salow a chance. We'll let him know ahead of time that if he goes AFK for months on end, we'll just move on without him. But Salow's been more instigator than Chris.

So let's give him a try with the understanding we can drop him if it doesn't work out?
Mittens
 GM, 204 posts
Sat 9 Jun 2012
at 05:38
Re: OOC
Works for me.
Aldrych
 player, 1 post
Sat 9 Jun 2012
at 20:59
Re: OOC
Now introducing Aldrych, an Avenger (if only we were playing Marvel Superheroes)
Mittens
 GM, 205 posts
Sat 9 Jun 2012
at 23:43
Re: OOC
Heheh, welcome, Salow.  :)
Timothius
 GM, 91 posts
Sun 10 Jun 2012
at 05:17
Re: OOC
hihi Salow! Yeah, the "Future" thread was just something Joe and I were playing for fun on the side, BUT! If you like it, I'll go to the effort of keeping it going for a bit. :) We'll see where it takes us!
Joe
 player, 256 posts
Sun 10 Jun 2012
at 05:45
Re: OOC
Yeah, suddenly... EPIC SPACE DRAMA and detailed backstory.  No pressure.

I'm not gonna say no to more post antics of course.

This message was last edited by the player at 05:46, Sun 10 June 2012.

Mittens
 GM, 206 posts
Sun 10 Jun 2012
at 20:53
Re: OOC
Aldrych:
I was thinking that he should be a captive ... like if there's a boss fight at the end of this "dungeon" he could be tied up. and if they release him during the fight, he'd be an added weapon for the fight.

Also, heard something really cool about how to speed up combat in 4E (pbp is slow already, but this may help increase it's speed [add efficiency]):

1) All monsters start off at Half their normal hit points -- So a bugbear, may have 50 hit points, he now has 25. This also means that the surge value changes (so it'll require a little bit of work on the gm to make adjustments). This works well against higher HP monsters who may have HP in the hundreds. But it must be implemented with House Rule #2.

2) All weapons do max damage on a normal hit. Craghammer does 1d10+Str Mod (let's say +4). So my warden who hits the bugbear now does a flat 14 damage with every successful hit. That then means critical hits do max dmg times 2 (or times 3, whatever). Again, the warden crits on the bugbear, now he's done (I forget how crits work) 24 or 28 dmg. In the latter case the sucker is dead. This also means the rules for bloodied come into play a lot faster for monsters as well, giving the pcs an advantage.


Tim and I have been experimenting with various ways of shortening combat.  Thanks for the ideas.  For now, what I'll probably do is: nothing.  Team will have 6 characters in a module designed for 5, so that alone will drop the challenge rating.  If things still go unreasonably slow, we'll reassess options then.
Aldrych
 player, 3 posts
Sun 10 Jun 2012
at 23:31
Re: OOC
Did know where else to post my character:

Rolen
Male
Elf
Druid
Level: 4
Good

Strength 12 (+1)
Constitution 14 (+2)
Dexterity 20 (+5)
Intelligence 11 (+0)
Wisdom         20 (+5)
Charisma 9 (-1)

Height: 5' 10"
Weight: 145 lb
Skin: Light
Eyes: Amber
Hair: Black Straight; Beardless

Maximum Hit Points: 46 [includes toughness]
Bloodied: 23
Surge Value: 11
Surges / Day: 9 [includes constitution modifier]

Size: Medium
Speed: 8 squares [includes druid predator bonus]
Vision: Low-light

Initiative: 1d20 +7 = 2 [half level] + 5 [dexterity]
Armor Class:         17 = 10 + 2 [half level] + 5 [dexterity]
Fortitude Defense: 14 = 10 + 2 [half level] + 2 [constitution]
Reflex Defense:         18 = 10 + 2 [half level] + 1 [druid] + 5 [dexterity]
Will Defense:         18 = 10 + 2 [half level] + 1 [druid] + 5 [wisdom]
Armor: None ("cloth")
Shield: None


Skills:
Acrobatics: +7 = 5 [dexterity] + 2 [half level]
Arcana:         +7 = 0 [intelligence] + 2 [half level] +5 [training]
Athletics: +8 = 1 [strength] + 2 [half level] +5 [training]
Bluff:         +1 = -1 [charisma] + 2 [half level]
Diplomacy: +1 = -1 [charisma] + 2 [half level]
Dungeoneering: +7 = 5 [wisdom] + 2 [half level]
Endurance: +4 = 2 [constitution] + 2 [half level]
Heal:         +7 = 5 [wisdom] + 2 [half level]
History: +7 = 0 [intelligence] + 2 [half level] +5 [training]
Insight: +7 = 5 [wisdom] + 2 [half level]
Intimidate: +1 = -1 [charisma] + 2 [half level]
Nature:        +14 = 5 [wisdom] + 2 [half level] + 2 [Elf] +5 [training]
Perception: +9 = 5 [wisdom] + 2 [half level] + 2 [Elf]
Religion: +2 = 0 [intelligence] + 2 [half level]
Stealth: +7 = 5 [dexterity] + 2 [half level]
Streetwise: +1 = -1 [charisma] + 2 [half level]
Thievery: +7 = 5 [dexterity] + 2 [half level]

At-Will:
Melee Basic Attack: Savage Rend, damage 1d8+5 [standard action]
Ranged Basic Attack:
Bull Rush: +3 vs fortitude [standard action]
Grab: +3 vs reflex [standard action]
Move grabbed target: +3 vs fortitude [standard action]
Escape: +7 [acrobatics] vs reflex / +8 [athletics] vs fortitude [move action]
Charge: Move your speed and make a Bull Rush or Pounce at end of move; +3 to Attack

Wild Shape [Druid] -
Action: Minor Range: Personal
Effect: Change form to beast or humandoid, and you can shift 1 square


Pounce [Level 1]
Action: Standard Range: Melee Touch Target: One Creature
Attack: +7 vs Ref
Hit: 1d8 + Wisdom modifier (+5). The target grants combat advantage to the next creature that attacks it before the end of your next turn.
Special: When charging, you can use this power in place of a melee basic attack. (+1 for charge +2 for feat = +3 total)


Savage Rend [Level 1]
Action: Standard
Range: Melee Touch
Target: One Creature
Attack: +7 vs Ref
Hit: 1d8 + Wisdom modifier (+5), and you slide the target 1 square
Special: This power can be used as a melee basic attack
</table>


Encounter Powers:
Second Wind
Action: Standard 
Range: Personal
Target: Self
Effect: You spend a healing surge and regain 21 HP. You gain a +2 bonus to all defenses until the end of your next turn.


Action Point [free action, not in surprise round]

Elven Accuracy
Action: Free
Range: Personal
Effect: Reroll an attack roll. Use the second roll, even if it’s lower


Darting Bite [Level 1] – beast form
Action: Standard
Range: Melee Touch
Target: One or Two Creatures
Attack: +7 vs Ref
Hit: 1d10 + Wisdom modifer (+5) damage. If at least one of the attacks hit, you can shift 2 squares
Primal Predator: The number of squares you can shift equals your Dexterity modifier (+5)


Predator's Flurry [Level 3] – beast form
Action: Standard
Range: Melee Touch
Target: One Creature
Attack: +7 vs Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Wisdom modifier (+5) damage, and the primary target is dazed until the end of your next turn.
Effect: You shift 2 squares and make a secondary attack.
Primal Predator: The number of squares you can shift equals your Dexterity modifier (+5)
Secondary Target: One creature other than the primary target
Secondary Attack: Wisdom vs Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Wisdom modifier (+5) damage, and the secondary target is dazed until the end of your next turn


Daily Powers:
Savage Frenzy [Level 1] – beast form
Action:
Standard
Range: Close Burst 1
Target: Each enemy in burst you can see
Attack: +7 vs Ref
Hit: 1d6 + Wisdom modifier (+5) damage, and the target is dazed and slowed (save ends both)
Miss: Half damage, and the target is slowed until the end of your next turn


Fleet Pursuit [Level 2 Utility] – beast form
Action: Minor
Range: Personal
Effect: Until the end of the encounter, you gain a power bonus to your speed while you are in beast form equal to your Dexterity modifier (+5).


Feats:
Elven Precision: When you use the elven accuracy power, you gain a +2 bonus to the new attack roll
Enraged Boar Form [PH2]: While you are in beast form, you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls and a +2 bonus to damage rolls with charge attacks
Toughness: When you take this feat, you gain additional hit points. You gain an additional 5 hit points at each tier of play (1st, 11th, 21st)

Elf
•+2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence or Wisdom (already included; you chose Wisdom.)
•+2 Nature, +2 Perception
•Elven Weapon Proficiency (longbow, shortbow)
•Fey Origin
•Group Awareness (allies within 5 squares get +1 on perception)
•Wild Step (ignore difficult terrain when shifting)
•Elven Accuracy (once/encounter, may reroll attack roll)


Druid

•This druid chose the Predator primal aspect.
•Balance of Nature
•Ritual Casting -- [bonus feat, not listed above; the ritual book can take most any form]
•Wild Shape [no shield benefit as per revision]

Rolen's Equipment:
Weapons / Armor / Shield (from above)
Backpack
Bedroll
Flint and steel
Grappling hook
Hammer
Pitons x10
Pouch (belt) x1
Rations (1 day) x10
Rope (50', hempen) x1
Sunrods x2
Waterskins x1
Ritual book x1
Ritual components
Alchemical Reagents (5)
Rare herbs (5)
Residuum (5)

Magic items:

 Weapon:
 Weapon:
 Weapon:
 Weapon:
 Armor:
 Shield:
 Arms:
 Feet:
 Hands:
 Head:
 Neck:
 Ring:
 Ring:
 Waist:

Languages: Common; Elven
Mittens
 GM, 207 posts
Mon 11 Jun 2012
at 00:27
Re: OOC
If you click your character's name, you should get an option to edit your description.  That's where we generally put charsheets.  It's convenient that they're only a click away.
Joe
 player, 257 posts
Mon 11 Jun 2012
at 01:01
Re: OOC
Actual documentation of class features and powers, YES. I think I'm gonna like you.

EDIT: That's details for a different character anyways.  Though putting Aldrych's info in Aldrych's character details would be a good idea when he gets around to it.

EDIT the second: Rolen is now a character for him.

This message was last edited by the player at 01:06, Mon 11 June 2012.

Terdisas
 GM, 352 posts
Mon 11 Jun 2012
at 01:20
Re: OOC
Some relevant house rules of convenience.  As the main DnD board has em but not accessible here.  The "Big Ones".  First up, EXTRA CASH at levels higher than one.  Since handing out items specifically is something skipped.  If your level 4, that means 4,480 Gold to work with on your magic shopping list.

Angel:
After looking at Angel's character sheet on character builder and doing some calculations, I discovered I had not updated her since level 2 gear-wise. But I did her correctly at lvl 2. So it's all good because the math will add up. Anyway, figured I'd give a list of TOTAL gold at each level for everyone's convenience.

Magic Item Cost-Increase scale:
Levels	| Extra amount added	|
	| since last level	|
--------|-----------------------|
01-05	| 160			|
06-10	| 800			|
11-15	| 4,000			|
16-20	| 20,000		|
21-25	| 100,000		|
26-30	| 500,000		|
31-35	| 2,500,000		|

Obvious rate of adding x5 every half tier. 160x5=800, 800x5=4,000. So on.
(Note: These are the amount added PER level. So a level 1 item is 360. Then you add 160 for a level 2 item for a total of 520 for a level 2 item. Then you add 160 for a level 3 item for a total of 680 for a level 3 item. So on. At level 6, the amount changes from 160 to 800. So a level 5 item is 1,000 and a level 6 item is 1,800.)
Beginning price (Level 1 items): 360 gp
Highest Price (Level 30 items): 3,125,000 gp
Level 31 item: 5,625,000 gp


TOTAL
(If you sold everything you own and add the gold you own, you should have this much)
Level ##:   Original (x1.5 Value: aka new house-ruled way)
Level 01:        100 (N/A)
Level 02:      1,920 (2,880)
Level 03:      2,560 (3,840)
Level 04:      3,200 (4,800)
Level 05:      4,480 (6,720)
Level 06:      6,400 (9,600)
Level 07:      9,600 (14,400)
Level 08:     12,800 (19,200)
Level 09:     16,000 (24,000)
Level 10:     22,400 (33,600)
--------------------------------
Level 11:     32,000 (48,000)
Level 12:     48,000 (72,000)
Level 13:     64,000 (96,000)
Level 14:     80,000 (120,000)
Level 15:    112,000 (168,000)
Level 16:    160,000 (240,000)
Level 17:    240,000 (360,000)
Level 18:    320,000 (480,000)
Level 19:    400,000 (600,000)
Level 20:    560,000 (840,000)
--------------------------------
Level 21:    800,000 (1,200,000)
Level 22:  1,200,000 (1,800,000)
Level 23:  1,600,000 (2,400,000)
Level 24:  2,000,000 (3,000,000)
Level 25:  2,800,000 (4,200,000)
Level 26:  4,000,000 (6,000,000)
Level 27:  6,000,000 (9,000,000)
Level 28:  8,000,000 (12,000,000)
Level 29: 10,000,000 (15,000,000)
Level 30: 14,000,000 (21,000,000)

ADDING!
So that you don't have to sell everything you own to figure out how much more to get, this is how much gold you get when you reach a new level. This is not in addition to the total amount. For instance, Angel had 1920 gold worth of stuff at level 2. So when she got level 3, she could add 640 gp for a TOTAL of 2560 (1920 + 640 = 2560).

I have put up the amount you gain per level as well as the amount you would gain based off the x1.5 rule. So for example, Angel levels up from level 2 to level 3. She SHOULD actually have 2,880 gold worth of stuff (instead of the 1,920 listed in the previous paragraph). So when she gains level 3, she simply adds 960 to her gold (2880 + 960 = 3840). If you have questions, let me (Tim) know.
Level UP:  Original (house ruled extra amount)
Level 02:     1,820 (2,780)
Level 03:       640 (960)
Level 04:       640 (960)
Level 05:     1,280 (1,920)
Level 06:     1,920 (2,880)
Level 07:     3,200 (4,800)
Level 08:     3,200 (4,800)
Level 09:     3,200 (4,800)
Level 10:     6,400 (9,600)
--------------------------
Level 11:     9,600 (14,400)
Level 12:    16,000 (24,000)
Level 13:    16,000 (24,000)
Level 14:    16,000 (24,000)
Level 15:    32,000 (48,000)
Level 16:    48,000 (72,000)
Level 17:    80,000 (120,000)
Level 18:    80,000 (120,000)
Level 19:    80,000 (120,000)
Level 20:   160,000 (240,000)
----------------------------
Level 21:   240,000 (360,000)
Level 22:   400,000 (600,000)
Level 23:   400,000 (600,000)
Level 24:   400,000 (600,000)
Level 25:   800,000 (1,200,000)
Level 26: 1,200,000 (1,800,000)
Level 27: 2,000,000 (3,000,000)
Level 28: 2,000,000 (3,000,000)
Level 29: 2,000,000 (3,000,000)
Level 30: 4,000,000 (6,000,000)

Two, Modified inherent.  You got your inherent bonus, but the Armor + kicks in at the same time as the weapon plus instead of the useless "Oh hey, now that you are level 5, NOW you get your +1 to defenses!  +2 Items show up at level 6. hahahaha".

Three.  Freebie built in omni use Expertise.  Does not stack with anything, so taking an expertise Feat manually does nothing for you unless it has extras.  Example with Terdisas who has Staff Expertise.  He already gets the To-Hit bonus, so he doesn't get it from the feat.  But he gets the "Ranged attacks with a staff do not provoke AoO" perk.  Math wise this is an easy +1 To-Hit Per Tier.

Since... well, nothing we've done ever has gone past level 4, the "built in defense bonuses at level 11, 16, 21, and 26" rule is merely sorta... there.

Four.  you are allowed to overhaul your character, class, items, powers, feats (not your race or name obviously) at reasonable moments.  So far it seems "reasonable" means "not in the middle of a fight".

You can if you want, not put these benefits to use.  Chris doesn't use the Freebie Expertise (I forget which of the 12 sheets Ive written for him I've rolled with that or not) for example.  But you really should pick out some items on the chance nothing gets handed out by the narrative as per usual.

This message was last edited by the GM at 01:24, Mon 11 June 2012.

Timothius
 GM, 92 posts
Mon 11 Jun 2012
at 05:10
Re: OOC
Strength 12 (+1)
Constitution 14 (+2)
Dexterity 20 (+5)
Intelligence 11 (+0)
Wisdom         20 (+5)
Charisma 9 (-1)

Not sure how you got two 20's by level 4, but we use point-buy. Just FYI. :)
Joe
 player, 258 posts
Mon 11 Jun 2012
at 05:19
Re: OOC
Timothius:
Strength 12 (+1)
Constitution 14 (+2)
Dexterity 20 (+5)
Intelligence 11 (+0)
Wisdom         20 (+5)
Charisma 9 (-1)

Not sure how you got two 20's by level 4, but we use point-buy. Just FYI. :)

Ran it through the character builder for giggles. 11 points overboard.  Yeesh two 20's (19's at level one?) and only your dump stat with a -1 penalty.  How many hundred times did you roll like an old school DnD Computer game?
Rolen
 player, 1 post
Mon 11 Jun 2012
at 19:43
Re: OOC
Joe:
Timothius:
Strength 12 (+1)
Constitution 14 (+2)
Dexterity 20 (+5)
Intelligence 11 (+0)
Wisdom         20 (+5)
Charisma 9 (-1)

Not sure how you got two 20's by level 4, but we use point-buy. Just FYI. :)

Ran it through the character builder for giggles. 11 points overboard.  Yeesh two 20's (19's at level one?) and only your dump stat with a -1 penalty.  How many hundred times did you roll like an old school DnD Computer game?


Sorry, I used some old stats I had ... 4d6 re-roll the 1st one, EDIT: and keep the highest 3 ... and i got two 17s, which for an Elf become 19s (+2 Dex, +2 Wis or Int), and then the ability bonus at 4th, +1 to Dex & +1 to Wis = Dex 20, Wis 20.
EDIT: Do you use the point buy that's in the book? With base stats starting at 8, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10? Using 22 points?
If i'm wrong, then I'll change it .. point buy, whatever ...

This message was last edited by the player at 19:58, Mon 11 June 2012.

Mittens
 GM, 208 posts
Mon 11 Jun 2012
at 21:14
Re: OOC
Yes that's right.
Joe
 player, 259 posts
Mon 11 Jun 2012
at 21:16
Re: OOC
Rolen:
Sorry, I used some old stats I had ... 4d6 re-roll the 1st one, EDIT: and keep the highest 3 ... and i got two 17s, which for an Elf become 19s (+2 Dex, +2 Wis or Int), and then the ability bonus at 4th, +1 to Dex & +1 to Wis = Dex 20, Wis 20.
EDIT: Do you use the point buy that's in the book? With base stats starting at 8, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10? Using 22 points?
If i'm wrong, then I'll change it .. point buy, whatever ...

It's cool, I was recently told you have more chargen binges than even Tim.  Oh my. yeah the in book point buy rules your Edit mentions are what we use.
(11 is 1 point, 12 is two, 13 three, 14 five, 15 seven, 16 nine, 17 twelve, 18 sixteen points.  you apply racial mod to the end, so buy up to 16 and your racial mod makes it an 18.  Buy up to 18 and racial mod makes it a 20.  Can't go lower than an 8, and only one less than 10 stat allowed.  That last bit isn't listed I think, but in official builder it forces that)