In reply to Narrator V (msg # 30):

Aha, so that way it works. I likely go by your suggestion of the scores albeit I would place one higher score to charisma because as dread necromancer charisma is my key casting stat (like swap Str and Cha). I do need Int and Wis also because they are key stats in the true necromancer side of the build.

Most likely use my 4th level attributes to make all mental stats 18 and then apply the lich template so they are nicely even 20 in all three. Not perhaps super optimized but I knew mental stats were going be tough to deal with being a caster who uses all three mental stats for casting. But instead of going overboard with one stat, I aim for more consistent balance in them.

Ooh so if I chose 14 and 18 for a discounted total of 18 leaving 22 for the other four for an average of 5.5 each or for example two 13's and two 14's. But there are five increases available from 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th levels. Interesting.

I rolled rather low.  Am I right that if I assign a 13 somewhere, I receive +2 points to use?  Otherwise, the result is inferior to a straight point buy, so I may not use the other dice.

If you used a 13, it would cost you only 3 pts. I don't advise it, but if you want, you can buy two 13's, each at 3 pts, since you rolled two 13's.

Two 13s at 3 points left over would leave you with 34 points which equates to three 8s and one 10.  That leaves you with scoores of 16,15,15,15,13,13
But given ability increases at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th levels, you could increase this to four 16s and two 14s, which is pretty good all round but without a massively high ability.

Going to finalize the char gen thread.

In reply to Narrator V (msg # 36):

*cheers*

So can start soon then, I PM'ed you the possible explosive synergy with my build to get my build approved (and ofc other players can point stuff out if it's too broken to their liking once I post full sheet).

In reply to Ghanek Brightwave (msg # 35):

Thank you, all!  I don't have the ability to read carefully (EDIT:  right now) but may circle back with questions later.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:06, Wed 22 Mar 2023.

Does anyone know whether there's any published info on epic level Scouts?

I don't think so, but it would probably be something like Feat 24/28/32/etc and skirmish 21st +6d6 / +5 AC, 23rd +6d6 / +6 AC, 25th +7d6 / +6 AC, 27th +7d6 / +7 AC, repeating.

Yeah that was my assumption.

I'm now wondering whether I REALLY need the Landlord feat.

Well you could use it to make a 'stronghold' that is actually your ship.

Indeed, but I've been having a look at Stronghold builder and Diw it's hard.

In reply to Ghanek Brightwave (msg # 43):

Look at Arms & Equipment maybe?

I think I have the idea boss, thinking of a three part stronghold including sections amidst the rocks, beneath the water, and a submersible vessel.

You could have a stronghold that functions as the lighthouse of the city.

So, ok if I am understanding the rules correctly - I rolled 18,18,11. I am dropping the second 18.
So here are my stats before levels and racial modifiers.
Str 13, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 11, Cha 14. So 5+8+6+14+1+6=40. Think that is how it works.

I will post my build below, the main thing that I want to address and that folks to pay attention is the 'synergy' between the prestige class and dread necromancer. To tell me is too cheesy to allow or okay. The intent is not to run combat encounters with +200 skeletons/zombies, at best my char may have 2-4 potent undead minions in personal battles.

But the main fun I aim here is to have the raw ability to raise loads of undead and able wield them in mass battles in a narrative sense (if there is going be a war scenario my character could bring loads of undead and acts as a necromancer general for the said army). So below math is mostly figure the canon/official math how much undead Hathra can command without using extended and chain casted command undead to mindless undead.

Cleric 3/Wizard 3/True Necromancer 14/Epic True Necromancer 1
Dread Necromancer 20/Epic Dread Necromancer 1

In ACF wise I aim for Cloistered Cleric so have access to the knowledge domain + 2 other domains (and some extra stuff). The 2 domains would be; Deathbound and Death domains.

Death is for the requirement for a true necromancer alone picked, however deathbound increases the limit of creating undead with spells to x3 times than double of my CL (meaning animate dead animates more undead when I use it but cap remains same). But later get a permanent desecrate aura via True Necromancer PrC, which doubles this amount (so the total amount is 8 HD per CL undead created by the animate dead or similar spell).

In the wizard, I would be a necromancer specialist, with Immediate Magic (cursed glance). Leaning on choosing enchantment and evocation as forbidden schools as s wizard.

True Necromancer adds +12 CL both cleric and wizard in one side, making char as 15 CL as both. However true necromancer adds +4 for necromancy spells/spell-alikes and when rebuking undead levels as cleric (and true necromancer stacks to rebuke undead by default). So will be 19 CL in both classes in power regarding necromancy spells and rebuke level.

Now, the amount of undead I can control just with the above is separately tracked by each CL. Animate dead as the wizard is pool-wise based on CL 21, cleric is as well. So combined I have 19 x 4 = 76 x 2 = 152 HD undead pool with animate dead and similar higher tier undead creation spells (but treated as two 76 pools than one pool).

Now we enter Dread Necromancer, since gaining undead master my pool is 4 + Cha Mod per CL instead (and it's only dread necromancer CL not other sourced CL). The pool is separated from the wizard because the dread necromancer is not a wizard (it's separated arcane but different class). In 20 level my pool with +5 Cha mod would be 180, but now comes the 'explosive synergy' part.



The above feature from true necromancer does not anyway indicate it's limited only to wizard or cleric spells; it applies to all spells and spell-alikes. So with that in mind, my CL for necromancy spells as dread necromancer would be 24 (and thus the pool of undead I control would become 216 HD). Rod of Undead Mastery would double all the mentioned pools.

Now, taking 21th level with epic PrC progression allows me to pick an epic feat. My choice would be Undead Mastery. It would mean a dread necromancer who is able to get +22 turning check (which is 1d20+Cha mod+any other mods), could get 28 max HD affected undead in turning check, but the key here is the ability to grab control of undead with 14 HD or less to become permanently commanded. Cap is normally 24 HD, but undead mastery extends that to ten times for 240 undead under rebuke undead/command function. Now the reason why cleric rebuke levels don't count as I think the dread necromancer and cleric rebuke undead do not stack, as despite one is arcane and the other being divine, their ability functions exactly the same. So this case 'highest level' is used as a measure for the pool.

Naturally, Hathra can have further network control via chained command undead spell cast on his minion's weekly basis.

Now all minions he has created via spells, would be affected by his undead mastery from dread necromancer (+4 enchant for Str, Dex, and +2 HP per HD), up to GM/fellow PC's ruling does class feature help qualify for corpsecrafter feats without needing to take corpsecrafter (which has exact same benefits as undead mastery and does not stack, besides the HP as it's an untyped bonus).

Now, the above covers just 'undead minion' math but asking is building okay on that front. As mentioned plan take undead leadership atop what minions I can control by spell/magic and by divine power.

In above math, CL raise from epic levels have not been included, all above were before 21 level.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:06, Thu 23 Mar 2023.

In reply to Hathra Bonecrown (msg # 47):

I think this is a fun build, personally.  Very flavorful.

In reply to Narya (msg # 48):

Indeed it is, also the entire purpose of undead mastery for permanent undead control with rebuking is for Hathra to act as 'jailer' type necromancer; he captures troublesome or dangerous undead (which are 14 HD or less) and captures them permanently to avoid them causing problems or as a method of punishment for deadly undead who had sinned lots in their immortal lives.

*Hathra casually rebukes a lich*

(the lich)"Impossible! How?! How you can have such power!"

(Hathra)"Cause Ruby Queen grants it to me as a means of capturing likes of you! Your crimes are unaccountable; you ruined a kingdom, and killed countless lives, as a means to build power for your phylactery. You now hand that phylactery over to me, I shall know where it is now on and in your next millennia, you will be doing scribe's duty in this library. Your work is to correct grammar of bardic artistic works from the local college."

(the lich)"Noooooo!"

(albeit in above would need having been 21 levels already and only able command 11 HD lich cause they got turn resistance +4).

Very focused. Did have one minor question - what is Epic True Necromancer going to look like? It seems like you would be getting Necromantic Prowess +5 at 15th level and your caster levels might work like Epic Mystic Theurge? Maybe. Hard to say really for that one.

In reply to Vythisk (msg # 50):

I imagine necromantic prowess continues scaling up as does Major Desecration which extends desecrate range by +10'ft per PrC level (and ofc casting progresses like mystic theurge). Also, gain bonus epic feats same levels as epic mystic theurge does.

Aaargh.  I've just realised I can't draw.

In reply to Ghanek Brightwave (msg # 52):

??

Do you mean visual rendition?

I do.  And I'm not sure I can make my stronghold make sense with words alone.

Can Maynitra have an Abjuration version of mage armor and/or greater mage armor, so that Abjurant Champion's Abjurant Armor works with it? (This is actually suggested in the ability's description -- "Abjurant Champions rely on mage armor, shield, and similar spells instead of actual armor.")