A place to talk about stuff.

How ocme so many VnV games lose their GM's?

Is it b/c it's somewhat challenging to GM?
Or is that rpol can often slip when 'real life' starts?

In reply to MoSqUiTo (msg #2):

I think it's the latter.

I've seen it in tons of games, not just V&V ones.

That Naptown Knights game actually had a really good GM that was very attentive and just kind of all around excellent.  He was always super respectful of everyones time and very honest about what he could and couldn't do, right up until he vanished.

I honestly hope and believe he will return when RL settles down, because he was so consistent.

Maybe not though.  You never know.

I think he was running New Dawn as well. He was excellent.

I too hope he returns.

I only played briefly, but it was good.
I believe that GM said 'mother had broken hip', which is a devastating one.

One strength of RPOL (no nagging emails -- or at least, I shut mine off!) is also a weakness, b/c I think there are some friendships on here that'd outlast a game, but I haven't had any friendships come off the server ... yet.
:)

I think a lot of us gamers in that VnV game would like to check in on that GM, no?  Just to see how he's doing, etc.

It's another of the challenges of this vs F2F gaming.

I don't think it's related to the game system at all; just a fact of life in online games, and RPOL.  :(

I think it is across the board as well.

It's too bad, because some of the games I've been in that have died out had marvelous characters - in terms of others' characters to interact with, and enjoyment level of playing mine.  And when the game goes, it's like a world dying out. :(

In V&V, I've found it even more permanent, because most V&V games I've seen online insist you roll a character in game using the dice server.  Though, to be fair, I've never actually ASKED if I could bring in an orphaned character instead...

That is one of the reasons I started this forum. I think we all play in a pretty small world here. I think that many of us play with one another and that GMs might be open to having characters appear in their game that played in the games with others and possible the GMs themselves.

VnV, what a blast from the past! LOL

It was the second 'proper' system I used in my FtF superhero games and lasted a long, long time!

Anyone recall any of these or are you all new to VnV with the Monkeyhouse relaunch?

Superhero 2044 (terrible)
Various homebrew systems (so, so)
VnV (Lasted years, a ton of fun!)
Superworld (awful)
Golden Heroes (good, but not great)
Marvel Super Heroes (Amazing![50])
Champions (Bad)
MnM (Average)

MSH lasted the longest, as there was nothing easier to run and understand, it was a big hit. VnV was played for years and years though, in a time when it was really the only system around which had such a superhero feel to it, rather than the 'make it all up yourself' nature of what had come beforehand. :)

I couldn't afford the scenarios in my youth, but I recently picked up a few and have been skimming through stuff. :)

 I played and GM'd both V&V and CHAMPIONS for years.  Big fan of both systems for different reasons, although NOT a fan of where they've taken Champions since 4th edition (they're on 6th now... ugh).

Of the others, I've played MSH (fun but fluffy), Superworld (not all that good, but interesting reading and liked some of the art), DC Heroes (the Mayfair version, what's now Blood of Heroes), and a couple minor systems.

Of late, we've discovered ICONS, which is a lot of fun.  If you like Classic MSH, you'll love it.  It keeps the best ideas and ditches the funky action table and wonky d100 die curve.

Hey, here's a thought.  What about a thread for posting villains from games gone by? Our own creations, of course.

I forgot about DC... with the combat wheel and the 'bidding' system. Never played it, but owned it. (bad)

And Silver age guardians (bad)

And Heroes Unlimited (bad)

Could have a thread on comic book character conversions, naturally. :)

Yeah, Adventurer's Club (HERO Games, makers of CHAMPIONS) published conversion tables for both Marvel and DC RPGs to CHAMPIONS.

Most Wanted Vol. 3 for V&V had a conversion to CHAMPIONS too.  So after a while you learned to convert across most systems.

Heck, I still have the "Different Worlds" issue where they published stats for the New Teen Titans in CHAMPIONS and V&V (and Superworld too I think).

Oh, and a game that I really loved was the Marvel SAGA RPG, about 10 years old now I guess... it used cards instead of dice and made for a fast-paced, fun game.

AWFUL -- but it also had Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles rules (which also sucked) but was fun when I was ... um, 10.  Sorta.  Not really.
Who thought of that game system?!?!

Forgot Gurps as well, which lacked the heroic feel I like.

Gosh, superhero games are crawling out of the woodwork *Laughs*.

Let's not forget to tip our hats to Heroclix as well, eh. :)

The thing is that (like MSH), VnV is easy to explain to newcomers and then get on with it, since a lot of choices and decisions are made on the fly.

Try explaining point based character creation to a newcomer *Screams*

Oh, agreed.  Our old group, back to high school and beyond, played CHAMPIONS longer and more than V&V.  But that's because we got past that point of learning curve... mainly because everyone let ME buy the books, learn the rules, and explain everything... :/

V&V was always fun too.  Of course, we played ourselves as heroes.  But that's a lot more fun when you're 19 than when you're 40-something... :D

*Laughs* No one ever played themselves, the first thing I did when I got the rules was convert all my original characters over to it, as well as stat out the Avengers and the X-Men!

I remember changing various rules right then, (Iron man's armour doesn't just fall off him like an ADR rating, but Invulnerability doesn't cut it either... since no matter how many bullets you shoot him with, none are going to get through.

So we just let Invulnerability count against every attack. :)

Random generation has more chance of capturing a superhero from the comics. With points based, certain characters would never happen.

"Cyclops? Just a blast? What about some armour... a forcefield, maybe flight by shooting beams out of his feet... I have the points left over!" LOL

Of course, you may have to roll up about four characters to get one you would like to play. Thankfully at that point my players all had heroes they were playing already, which illustrated another point. In points based, some characters cost ridiculous amounts, even though they are relatively weak in their original system.

VnV avoids that with plenty of hand waving and 'make it up yourself' options :)

V&V was always my favorite growing up- and we had all of the supplements- even the strange, not so good one towards the end.

And we figured out that certain powers offered secondary powers, and we really went to town rolling "randomly" until we fished those powers. "No, the dice was off the mat, let me reroll that one d10- which one was the ten and which one was the one? Oh look- I rolled animal / plant powers!"

But my friend Jacob, who used to GM, got tired of the system and began insisting Champions was better- which I always thought was NOT.

Anyways- good times back then.

Trying to make my current game (which can't handle anymore players) as fun. We'll see.  :)

Keep your fingers crossed!

*Laughs* Animal powers was like 6 extra powers for free!

Yeah but some were weaknesses. Also some of the classes of animal were funny.

That's the fun of rolling on random tables.

Unless you end up with 4 hit points of course. *Laughs*

The Legion of Superheroes always seemed like they had been rodomly generated. Very little balance.

"Don't listen to that Nazi swine!"

*Reaches for an initiative dice*

I love the Legion of Superheroes. The reason they are unbalanced is that,  well, I think they were designed that way deliberately so that they have to work in teams so that hey can be effective. Also when you have someone like Monel and Superboy on your team, everyone else is weak by comparison.

How about the Avengers, Wasp and Thor on the same team!?

Long Live the Legion!

And Avengers Assemble. :)

That's one of the things I like about V&V.  You can get "Wasp" and "Thor" on the same team.  Give a bunch of CHAMPIONS players x amount of points, and there's no way...

We were playing ICONS (similar to V&V in that it has random generation) the other weekend.  ONE character can fly.  Out of 5. None of the others have a movement power.

I don't see that often in point-buy systems.

In a point based system the gm really has to set guidlines and limits for how to spend points and decide what powers he wants in his campaign. That has been my experience, both as a GM and as a player. You can have a fun game with any system, if the GM and the players want to use the system.

I will admit to missing the game that this character is in and lamenting the other two characters I had made not having the chance to get rolling. Real life does often wreak havoc with PbP games however, so what can one do?

Nobody seems to have mentioned my favorite system: Aberrant.
Based on the d10 White Wolf system, with super powers.

It's companion, Aeon Trinity, was also a cool game.


Has anyone here played 'Danger Patrol' ... simply the coolest game ever, if not technically a super hero game.

Magnette ia have Aberrant but have never gotten to play it.

I recently picked up a very rules light supers game called Supers!, written by the same guy who created Barbarians of Lemuria. The game looks pretty cool and looks like it would be pretty quick to put a character together. It isn't a random system like V&V which is good or bad depending on how an individual looks at it.

Added a Danger Room section as well.

Feel free to go in and throw down the Gauntlet.

A heads up. Please post at the top of your character description which game your character was generated.  In my opinion all the characters that we add here should be generated in an rpol game where you are or were a player. That way we can keep the pool fairly pure. Hopefully other GMs can use the pool to recruit heroes for their games.

I fear otherwise we will end up with a bunch of power gamer self created characters here. I can make a thread for outside character heroes for those characters.
This message was last edited by the GM at 00:51, Wed 30 Nov 2011.

I have posted the information about what game my character was generated in where you asked for it. Can I go have a nap now?

Lol.

Good idea.  Will do.  I'll put into descr AND char sheet.

Btw, can people roll char's up here?  Is that legit, or ...?

That is an interesting question. For me I think for someone that wants to join and does not have a character in an RPOL game and wants to have one that would be cool. But for those of us with character's already I think it would counterproductive and would just cluter the place up.

There are still lots of VnV players out there on rpol we have not recruited yet. I would like to get them all to check in and help us.


What do the rest of you think?

On 2nd thought, the purpose of this 'forum' is not char gen, so I'd say nope.

V&V char-gen requires GM interaction, so I'd say no.

It might be good to have a thread which shows VnV games recruiting players...?

That would probably go in the Seeking Players Thread. Don't see why we would need an extra thread. That work for you?

Aha, you are waaaaay ahead of me!

Done.

I notice that the Tampa Titans GM still has the game active, but has deleted all the PCs.   I find this intriguing.

That seems a bit strange.

Indeed and I ended up having to try and find Stormstrike's stuff elsewhere but he is missing his description and his armor.....his background is still around though.

In reply to The Lady (msg #45):

Like I said earlier, I'm not convinced it was the GM.  They still haven't signed in since August.

I think it is some bug having to do with inactivity and the site update.

But that doesn't change the fact the PC info isn't there, only that it is probably not malicious.

@Stormstrike did you look on the character generation thread.

In reply to The Guardian (msg #49):

I did look there and was able to get most of his info, but the physical description from his profile was not there nor was the write-up of his chainmail that the GM and I worked on. I feel stupid for not having it all down in a document on my PC but hindsight is 20/20...

I played in a VnV game on here a few years ago.

Rolled up an awesome brick with TK and Magnetics. Really cool character. We played for a few weeks and then the game and my character were gone. Never found either.

It was one of the things that made me start this "forum".

Man, I am really missing playing my characters in the games I was in. Definitely jonesing for some V&V at this point....

Yeahp...

Me too.  :(

I wonder how our missing GMs are doing anyhow.....IIRC they had some shit come up in their lives...

I will admit I am toying with the idea of starting up a V&V game even though I am unsure of my ability to GM it and come up with a detailed world.....of course aside from that the other things holding me back are my various PbP games and chat-based games I am in...

PM

So StormStrike, are you gonna do it?

I would be interested.

Looks like things have cranked down considerably since my forced absence from RPOL in August.

I've closed the two games I was running ... mostly because I won't be running anything again for at least a month, perhaps until the new year.

In the meantime, I'm going to be brainstorming some ideas for a new game. Both New Dawn and Naptown Knights were pretty straight forward, and I might go that way again. What makes a game interesting is not the premise so much as the characters/players and how things build in depth over time.

In response to an old comment here, you don't need to create a complex world. You just build it with the players as you go.

Despite having a kid this month, I was sad to see Naptown Knights end (again).

Also my other games have sorta wound down too, except for two.


Peace & keep on gamin'!

We were all sad to see "New Dawn" go, KK.  Such are the trials and tribulations of that dreaded "Real Life".  Hope things settle down for you!

I likewise was sad to see it end, but I definitely understand real life kicking one's behind....I have been dealing with that off-and-on myself. Am trying to keep my game going, and hopefully interesting.

On a related but separate note... I'm considering starting a V&V game.  I've enjoyed writing with many of you, and while "A Balance of Powers" is a great ongoing game... I think we've got room for more. :)

Some thoughts I'm kicking around:

1.) Setting.  I'm considering:

A) a dystopian far-future, a mix of Legion of Super-Heroes, Battlestar Galactica (remix) and Firefly;

B) a 'Golden Age' 1940s game with a second world war backdrop, influences from the 2010 'Captain America' movie and Robinson's "The Golden Age" series - not exactly 'four color', more gritty than that.

C) a standard 'Modern Day' game, to keep it simple.

2.) Characters.  I'm considering allowing people to revive/bring in characters from now-dead, abandoned games.  I realize that part of the fun is generating a character, so this wouldn't be required; but I know there are some fun and good characters out there that have become 'abandonware' due to games dying.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:02, Thu 01 Nov 2012.

If anyone wants to get access to a character from one of my deleted games, I can undelete them to allow people to copy. Just let me know.

In reply to Shimakaze (msg # 62):

I'd probably be most interested in B or C for setting options. As far as importing a character vs. making a new one that would be a tough call. Aside from Bonespike (who made it to level 2), I have several other characters who never really got a chance: Pyrebird, Arc Nova, and Stormstrike. I could get the sheets over to you so you could see them so you could decide if you are comfortable with any of them.

I would love to play in a 1940's game, but both sound good. I have a lot of characters I would enjoy brining over.

In reply to The Guardian (msg # 65):

Just The Guardian and I expressing interest in a possible V&V game? Say it is not so true believers! ;)

I'm still considering setting and details, but I'd love to get the great players I've met and played with in other games (sadly, mostly now gone) to join in.

Feedback welcome, I'm still in the planning stage for sure. :)

I'd support your game, as I've promised.
I'm good with any setting really.  Any game can be good, with decent players/GM (and, esp in RPoL, some longevity)

I did want to comment about that.....I would be willing to accept decent or perhaps good as descriptors. I am still kind of fumbling around trying to get things moving smoothly not to mention figuring out what is a challenge vs. what is a cakewalk. I guess what I am saying is I am doing the best I can but the vote of confidence does give me a bit of a lift at least...

Batting around ideas for an eventual game ... maybe after Thanksgiving or maybe after Christmas.

First thought: World has zero supers. A cruise ship in the Bermuda Triangle (maybe some other hook, but a fair number of people) caught in cosmic radiation/mystical vortex/whatever. Normal humans after the event start manifesting super powers.

Some use them for good. Some for evil. Others try to hide.

The potential weakness of this idea is that there is no inherent reason why the players should band together, but that can be overcome.

Also, my first thought is that the GM rather than the players would roll the powers as they might not all manifest at once. That might be negotiable, though, as random power generation is part of the fun of the game.

If that became a game, would people be interested?

Oh yeah.   I'd accept random and gradual manifestation.

There could be a twist to character creation. All those on the cruise ship (or whatever) would be required to have powers from the 'Powers' table as it would be difficult to force a technological source from a cosmic event. Then develop the initial antagonists to not have powers from the 'Powers' table, and instead write them up as technological/magical/skilled. Thus, there's an instant us vs them undercurrent pulling the players into a group.
Sounds like a fascinating premise; I would definitely be interested in that.

It does sound intriguing, but I will honestly miss Bonespike. :)

I was certainly thinking of the first half of this. All Powers would be Powers rather than tech, at least at first.

I'm sorry about that.

In reply to Kid Kinetic (msg # 75):

No problems man, life and stuff comes up. He had a good run.

So I've been toying around more with the basic ideas in my VnV: Genesis game.

What sounds better to you (and why?)

1) Have the characters roll up complete characters from the start, but game begins with them in normal human form.

PRO: Players can foreshadow later powers as they role play normals - the hot tempered youth gets fire powers, etc. It also makes sure that players are at least okay with their eventual characters.

CON: Lots of the mystery goes out of the manifestation of powers.

2) Have the players roll up characters as normal humans, and then have the GM randomly generate powers for each character and role play how they manifest.

PRO: Mystery. Players never know when or if their powers are fully developed.

CON: Removes fun of rolling up characters from players and puts them at even more mercy of GM (bwaaa ha ha ha).

I'm not totally sold on either method. And I may not end up being persuaded by any arguments, but I'm interested in the thoughts of folks here.

Having run a game like this at the table once, I'd really recommend (and prefer) #2.  Even later into the game, when I actually handed them full character sheets, some of the magic was lost.  It's a lot of fun to play that "awe and wonder" of not having any mechanical idea what your character can exactly do.

I'm with Shim, Kid ... Option #2 please.

What about you, Shim? Any further thoughts on whether you're running a game?

Option 2 would be good, and you wouldn't have to limit it to the powers. You could throw in the random weakness as well.
It would be difficult to foreshadow the powers if the character wasn't aware of what they were going to be, though. For some of them, the character could be warned before they manifest and you could expect them to be played out appropriately.

It is not necessary to do the foreshadowing. That would just be a thing that would work in Option 1 but not in Option 2.

Poco, pretty sure I will be running a game.  The Sci-Fi idea didn't seem to get much love.  I guess now I'm trying to decide between 1942 and 2012. ;)

And of course, whether people can bring in "orphaned" characters or would make new ones.

In reply to Shimakaze (msg # 82):

While I would love to bring in an orphaned character I am also totally OK with needing to roll up a new one, so either way. :)

In reply to Shimakaze (msg # 82):

Shim, I'm in if you'll have me -- but busy awhile w/new baby.  But PM or RM me if you start?
I'm open to whatever you run.

Frankly, I would be jumping at any available VnV, for multiple reasons.
It's my favorite genre to RP in, it's the system that's given me my best runs in the past, and I've got to figure out how to make the game I GM on here better. I can't seem to get the pacing correct, and maybe I'll get some ideas from playing other games.

Shiner, Star Master, you guys are welcome aboard.  I'm doing some research - watching some films, reading some books - to get ideas.  I hope to get this started soon.  Shiner, I'll try to remember to PM you, but I'll be posting here for sure, so keep an eye out if you can. ;)

In reply to Shimakaze (msg # 86):

I would prefer an orphan, I have so many :(

Me too.

Yeah, I have to admit, it appeals to me to give new homes to orphaned characters.  I know for myself a lot of energy and excitement goes into character generation, but it sucks when that character never makes it past first level (or barely does).  :(

I promise you guys this.  If you sign on to my game, your characters WILL advance in level (if you stick with me). :)

Consider me sticky

The game is up!

Please give it a gander and RTJ.  I haven't advertised to the RPOL community at large yet, just you guys.

link to another game

When RTJ'ing, please include some reference to where I know you from (here or elsewhere) and in what context, if possible.  Just so I can keep you guys straight! :D

Toyed around with the power manifestation idea for a while, but decided it was more than I wanted to manage at the moment. Two other game ideas under development now.

1) After Armageddon. Civilization collapsed. Super heroes and villains survived just like other humans. A little more sandbox-y as the whole whole world is in shambles and the PCs can decided to a degree what they want to do. (I'm also toying around a bit with a couple ideas for a more structured set up where the heroes would have a more defined purpose/mission in the world.)

2) Children of the Archmage. Sorcerer Supreme of Earth (yes that is stolen) goes missing. PCs are current or former students or allies of his. Now left trying to fill his rather formidable shoes and deal with mystical challenges. Standard character roll up, but must explain why your character would have been an ally or protege of the Archmage.

Mystical game sounds cool.

I kind of like the Post-Apoc setting myself.  :)

Perhaps some of the old crew could survive the apocolypse.

I had not thought of that option. Could be.

Great game, posting pace is wild, & great Roleplaying.
Strong start!!

So glad you guys are digging it! :)

Def digging new game...
plus all my other V&V games are indef paused.

The one we were going to co-op GM didn't launch,
but that was primarily my fault b/c I became a first-time Dad
& got intimidated from picking up a side project!!
(Was probably a wise move...!)

Marviel was technically mute.

He could speak ... just not 'speak human'.   Being angelic, he could speak the celestial tongue ... which humans couldn't hear.
So during the game, he'd just talk and talk and talk to the other PCs, but they couldn't hear him: just see his mouth moving.

I'd, like, post dialog like:
Marviel wanders up and put his arm over Andrew's shoulder, look him in the eye, and say, "               ", with a big smirk on his face.

That was fun.

My personal favorite weakness is 'Special Requirement'.
Not because it's easily gotten around, but because it can be used to give style to an otherwise typical PC.
Like Johnny Quick being nothing but a Flash clone, except he had to mouth algebra to start running.
Like any Green Lantern back when they actually had to use the lantern.
Or like...
The Wonder Twins that have to touch and mouth bad dialog.

I like this weakness a lot.  If we play a game where heroes (temporarily?) pick up gear, I almost always make sure the gear has this weakness.

In some ways, the weakness is what makes the hero.
Superman would've been boring w/o Kryptonite.
Submariner had to get in the water or he'd have troubles.
etc

A Weakness can make a hero.  In V&V, though, some of the weaknesses can also just be "Ugh!" and "Guess I have to ditch a power to get rid of that!"

Like Reduced Agility. O_O

On the subject of "Mute", I'd try to have fun with it.  Jericho of the Teen Titans comes to mind, but I'd also say Chewbacca is effectively "mute" - only Han can really understand him, sans a translator...

The biggest problem with "Mute" if taken too literally (or without a compensating ability) is that it can stifle roleplay.  Not as much by PbP where people can type their character writing on a pad of paper, but at the table, try not talking in character or with dialogue for 4 hours...
This message was last edited by the player at 17:26, Tue 04 Dec 2012.

Reduced INT can suck, too.

BUT

many of these flaws/weaknesses CAN add to gameplay.  Creativity is key, IMO.

Yes, I drop powers for weaknesses (esp when I have a mix that doesn't work that well).  But if possible, I keep the weakness & try to integrate it into the character somehow.

(Just looked -- of the 5 heroes I've saved in this group, 4 have weaknesses -- and 3 of them are prejudice!)

I like prejudice when it is enforced. It makes the character avoid being in the public eye. Having to keep your charisma around 10 to avoid penalties is a challenge. The character ends up taking no credit for his heroics, knowing that somehow the public will see his deeds as self serving and criminal. Awesome.

In my 1939 game, a couple heroes have 'Prejudice' and it fits in quite well with the times.  If you've read some of the old comics of the period, heroes often WERE darker and worked outside the law - often because the law was corrupt or unreliable.  And while they weren't kill-crazy maniacs, looking at my classic Green Lantern comics, more than a few mobsters died fighting Alan Scott.  He didn't kill them on purpose, but they died in combat...

Or hey -- just take the penalty & roll with it (role with it?  heh)!

Sometimes being seen as a villain/wildcare could add to 'intimidation'
... if that was a skill in the game!  Arrgghghhh!

:)

In reply to SHINER (msg # 107):

That is the other option which can be very cool.

The "Bad Boy" hero.

Wolverine, anyone?

'nuf said.

Wasn't sure whether to put this here or on the OOC topic but:

The V&V community on RPOL is, and has been, amazing.  It's proven an excellent system for online play, and has revived my love of a game system I once played 25 years ago.  Further, I've met some really great people here.  The community's not that big - I think we're all in most of the V&V games here - but it's high quality.

Thanks all, and I wish you the best for the holidays! :)

I'm feeling Shim's love.

Your own game, of course, is definitely contributing to that revival and enjoyment, dear.


And Festive Season fancies to you, and all.

Oh heck yeah!

Thanks for your game!
And thanks to all other GM's & players that make this game system/genre awesome!
A whole lotta fun!

And thanks RPOL for existing!  (My fav game site!)

'nuf said.
;)

Just wanted to wish you all a Merry Christmas.

Villain & Vigilantes & Zombies

I've not actually been a huge fan of the whole zombie genre, but for a simple and straight forward game without a lot of need for GM world creation, I thought this might be a game idea that got some interest.

Simple concept: Standard comic book superhero world overrun by zombies.

Marvel did a series like this, I think.  Marvel Zombies IIRC...

Heh.   Cool.    Supers defending the isolated outposts that humans have fortified themselves into.

Or supers turning into zombies and hunting down and eating others... >.<

I think it might get a bit dull after a bit.

This is a risk. Unless the GM comes up with some goals the heroes could achieve.

But, yes, endless combat rolls would get tiring.

Nah, just make all the villains undead of some sort...?

:)

Then it's fun!!

Well, evil necromancers are a staple of fantasy fiction. :)

I was exploring another game idea called "Return to Earth."

Players would be heroes from the 1980s who were sucked into some sort of interstellar vortex or something (who knows at this point). Anyway, they return to Earth in 2013 as if only a few days had passed for them.

But, of course, the world has changed.

We'd roll up heroes and start with some levels beyond first level (that would all be part of character creation). Then start the game shortly after the return of the heroes.

This allows me to create the world as you learn it and encounter it instead of having to create a whole planet full of heroes and villains before the game can start ... which takes lots of time and energy.

Any interest?

I... hold on. checks Bio Line

Yep.  Still GM Bones.  Yes, I'd be interested. grin

But, um, if you mean in the actual concept, also, yes.  A character from the '80s sounds like a blast.  "What do you mean, legwarmers are out?"

Gag me with a fork!  Those legwarmers are totally tubular! :)

Yeah, I'd be interested in that.  What's funny is - I think - the mix of "Wow I can't believe that phone fits in your pocket" to "Where are the flying cars?"

Absolutely, Bones.

Heroes from the eighties, back after thirty years?! Perhaps one of them was older when they left. Is the Earth of 2013 ready for the return of Disco Dynamite and his explosive dance moves?
Only time will tell, unless you manage to get it to shut up.
I would, of course, be interested in this.

Heroes from the 80's?  Do they travel in a Hot Tub Time Machine?
(So many hated that movie, but I laughed out loud until the tears came from that film.)

If you really are going to do that, remember nerds weren't cool then -- it required computers (and 'revenge of the nerds' 1-4) for nerds to gain the respect they were always due.

I'll play ...!  (I'm easy.)

V&V court case finally resolved

http://workbench.cadenhead.org...-creators-win-rights

Interest and intrigue

I've been playing the 1982 version for years and years. Reading all this makes me feel like I should go buy a new copy from Dee and Herman just to give them the thanks they deserve for the great game.

Update - Scott Bizar of FGU has filed an appeal of the court's ruling, so this will take a little while longer to completely work itself out.

I took the chance to look a little bit over V&V 3.0. at the Monkeyhouse games site.

Not sure I'm a big fan, but I love the randomness of V&V, so I do not see the problems that they are trying to fix as huge problems.

I thought it was 2.1??  Can you post a few hi-lights / hi level summary?

What's changed, broadly speaking?

3.0 is still in development, but they have active forums where they go over the ideas.

The big concern appears to be unbalanced characters. Some solutions include reducing the complexity of how characteristics produce figured stats while also trying to even out the value of characteristics. Charisma (redefined as "Cool" now plays role in initiative.)

They introduce the idea of power levels (so you can have a low-powered campaign or a cosmic-powered one). Power level changes the specific details of a power. So Enhanced Strength at lower power levels might be +5 while it would be +25 at higher power levels. Power Blast damage is linked to power level.

Point systems would let characters swap points. So you could degrade your Enhanced Agility to make your Lightning Control stronger.

No more multiple actions per turn unless a character has H. Speed. (They seem to feel Agility is way too important in the current versions.)

Other stuff I don't remember right now.

Sounds like an excellent plan to ruin a good game. They good fix the balance issues with a few changes in genegeration that would not make all the preesiting material garbage. Just look at GURPS, DND4 and countless other systems that got greedy.
This message was last edited by the GM at 06:09, Wed 20 Mar 2013.

One of the things I liked about V&V was the challenge of running the game with unbalanced power levels. Sometimes I think the attention to detail that came in when games attempted to 'model every possible character from fiction' handcuffed a GM attempting to run games with a true variety of characters.

That's the same topic as I posed in the other forum here.

IMO one charm of V&V is unbalanced char's, but I'll try anything once.

I wouldn't accuse creators of being greedy, but rather maybe they love this game & they want to make it as best possible?

That said, I just grabbed Living Legends, & I prefer V&V.  LL is a point balanced superhero game.

A good fix is the 1d6+2 the fewer powers you roll the more control you get over the powers you get rule.

Does not affect the old characters but helps balance the characters.

When GM'ing, I basically treated anyone with 2-4 powers as optionally having 2x of one or two of those powers, and beefing those up.

But the downside is that raises power levels overall.

One big weakness of V&V is you could theoretically roll a *garbage* character who jsut sucks, but I'd let someone scrap that & reroll...  (the whole char, not just powers.)

I agree with that type of fixing ratrher than reworking the rules, which do not appear to be broken.

This might be an idea that deserves to die before seeing the light of day, but word of the upcoming SHIELD TV show had me thinking of an agent-level game in V&V.

In it, players would start out as agents of CHESS, the V&V secret spy agency. I was thinking of having the team start as "high level" Rooks and Doves (3rd or 4th level).

I'm not sold on this idea, but am interested in whether people think there might be something interesting here.

There are several Agent styled characters throughout the games now; Vosper, Wraith 1, Muldoon, Archer etc.

I think of 'Balance of Powers' as such a game. But, hell, I think you'd get response ... just cos we love the games, and you are a good GM.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:21, Fri 22 Mar 2013.

Are there parameters like, no powers,magic, or psi?  Only skills & devices?

Enemies could have anything...?

Could be fun!

I was thinking it would be a radically different game, yes. Players would roll up stats and pick "backgrounds." Would have some choices that represent "basic training" and then be allowed to take some training results from experience levels.

In short, they would not have super powers or even super skills (no Black Widow).

A basic training package might be something like

+8 to add to divide among Basic Characteristics (no more than 4 to any one trait).
Combat Expertise +2 with Hand-to-Hand combat and military weapons
Education/Background (choose 2): Espionage, Police, Combat Tactics, Forensics, Demolitions, Computers, Security, Government Liaison, Law, Interrogation

PCs would then have access to CHESS weapons, information resources, medical facilities, and equipment.

Major game activity would revolve around taking down more powerful super types and/or criminal organizations.

MIGHT have a plot line down the road that would give players the opportunity to acquire something like powers ... but not right out of the box.

I think you should have the super-opponents able to blow thru masses of agents!!
If you survive it's luck!!

And you can always roll up another agent!  :)

Sounds like the V&V version of the character funnel in Dungeon Crawl Classics....heh.

I think people just saw in Balance of Powers that well trained and equipped agents should be able to be effective against super-powered opponents.  That sounds neat.  And... I don't think I've ever seen anybody actually suggest using the setting that came with the book!  Wow!  hehe

V&V meets Paranoia?

That is the second time someone said something about that particular thing in my game. I guess perceptions vary because at times I thought that particular scenario was kind of a clusterfrak but at least part of it was the dice roller being particularly mean to the PCs. I do thank you for the kind words however...

Working on background for a game I might try to start up after Easter.

28 years ago
The Sentinels stood on the platform as arcs of energy crackled and buzzed around them. Somewhere deep in the bowels of the complex two full-scale fusion reactors burned hot as the sun providing juice to the equipment around them.

As the heroes braced for what was to come, General Craft and Professor Zander shared a few final words.

"Remember," the general said as he chewed mercilessly on the end of his cigar. "Those Hyusnak will not take any prisoners or show any mercy. Hit them hard. Remember Iron Eagle. Don't let his death be in vain."

The general fixed the heroes with his steely gaze for a moment before the professor spoke up.

"Now, ladies and gentlemen, try not to move too much. We want all of your parts to show up on the other end at the same time."

He smiled in that way that always left the Sentinels wondering whether he was expressing real concern or sharing his dry humor. The energy crackled again as a rising whine began to fill the chamber. A arc of energy suddenly leapt out from one of the spider-like arms of the device and caused the professor to take a startled step backwards.

The professor lowered his goggles over his eyes. He had to shout to be heard over the thundering noise as it split the air and eardrums.

"This may sting a bit!"
This message was last edited by the player at 19:42, Sun 24 Mar 2013.

I know a lot of you on this forum run (or have run) games of VnV.

When you create Villians, do you roll them up, like PCs have to be?  Maybe choosing the first Power or two to facilitate the role you wish them to play, but otherwise leave them to the vagaries of randomness that the players are subjected to?
Or do you mix and match their powers?  Choosing the best, most complimentary power sets like one might in Point Buy systems?

There are some I have rolled up completely randomly, some a combination of random and selection, some I have taken from other sources, and even ones that were my or other people's PCs in game that I converted to a villain. So many choices, so little time...heh heh ;)

Well, in the one game I'm running currently, I've adapted villains from other games/sources to V&V, or from V&V books.

Back in the old days, when I used to run tabletop, I'd often just roll them up randomly via the book. If they weren't powerful enough to be a challenge, they'd go on a villain team.  If they were so powerful they could take on a team by themselves, they'd be a solo villain. ;)

I'm in the all of the above camp.

I like to roll up random villains just because I like rolling up characters, but at times I've built villains for particular purposes and/or adapted them from other sources.

Most, though, are random.

Truthfully, I used to spend time when I should have been doing other things rolling and recording hundreds of rolls with the various dice. Then when I was able to, taking my lists of rolls and making up villains (marking off the rolls as I did so).
Now, I have a series of spreadsheets that I use to do basically the same thing.
Villains that I don't pull from published game material are random, every time. Which could explain why the heroes in my games seem to find it so easy to trounce the bad guys.

Thanks, all.   I was just curious.

I was just "MoSqUiTo" for a little while, too.
:D

Slowing slowing slowing...

*ALL* my rpol V&V games have stopped?

NooOooOoooOooOooo!!!

Hown is this possible?  Some archfiend out there stopping gamers from experiencing joy?!?!?

It's the expected result, the media have hyped everything so much that nothing lives up to its representation. Joy has fled.

Had the last kidlet start school this week. My life should be getting easier now, in theory.  Summer Vay-Cay with both kids + wife home all day = less time to screw around. ;)

I've been trying to think about the rules that would need to be used to make a "street-level" VnV game.

What are your thoughts?

Well, I don't know that "street level" means "weak".  One way would be to restrict people to rolling under SKILLS, DEVICES (and if you want a mystic element, ITEMS and MAGIC/PSIONICS)...

In reply to Shimakaze (msg # 162):

To me a street-level game is Daredevil. Heroes fighting organized crime or gangs. The majority of the enemy are normals with training and weapons rather than trans-dimensional wizards or world-eating meglomaniacs.

Depending on your sources, Daredevil is pretty badass.  I'm a fan of him going back to the 80's (Frank Miller days).

I'm a big fan of the show "Arrow", which is pretty street level - Oliver Queen is a man with martial arts/ninja training and a bow (with some trick arrows, but mostly just pointy ends).

Just not the Ben Afleck version.  Fearful of the Afleck Batman too.

I played a fun street level game.  Just make sure no one gets more than 1 superpower, or just say only devices/items & skills & training.
You could also cap some powers like Flight, Height Speed, cap max action phases per round, etc.

But you have to state your caps *before players roll their chars*, so they have reasonable expectations.

I guess it would depend on what you're thinking when you say 'street level'. If you're thinking mostly dealing with normal criminals, then you would need to reduce the heroes power to keep a proper balance of conflict. In that case a 'street-level' VnV game would require a slight focus change in character creation. I would probably go with a definite number of rolls (I'm thinking four) to be used on the skills, devices, and magic items tables. Then have them roll one random weakness that can be dropped iff one of the powers is also dropped.
Another possibility would be to develop the heroes normally, and run all the scenarios as 'street level' in the power level of the villains and the overall affect of the villainy is lowered. This would mean the challenge to the PC's would come in the form of riddles to solve, moral dilemmas to face, and likable NPC's in pain.
Both of these are 'street level', they just get there in a different fashion.

The son of the player of Earthling 37 requested to join this morning. His father has passed away recently so I have added him under his father's moniker.

Despite the fact that few of us have ever met face to face, we do get to know one another and I just wanted to express my condolences and also welcome Earthling 37 to the board.

o_O

I'm shocked and saddened.  E37 was a great player and I had a lot of fun with him in my game.  My condolences to E37.2.  :(

Pop had what spock had, and it got him thankfully quick. he had been having a lot of trouble. not sure what else to say, but we are all really bummed.

Pop REALLY loved vnv, and i grew up playing. i think id like to carry on with it, if you have any room.

thanks so much for the kind words, i loved hearing pop talk about what games he was in. he new how to breathe life into it.

For whatever it's worth, Earthling-37's character sheet from my game "Days of Infamy"...

Identity:  Earthling 37					Side:	Good		
Name:	Alan Clarke					Gender:	Male		
Experience:	7938					Level:	3	Age:	26
Powers:						Training:	Agility		
Heightened Expertise: +4 to hit with "Arena weapons".	
Flight Device: 100 mph flying pack.									
Heightened Agility A: +14 Agility.									
Heightened Endurance A: +15 Endurance									
Natural Weaponry skill: +2 to hit, +4 damage. Grapple can Inflict HTH dmg until removed on special attack.

Alien gear and weaponry:
ADR 50 Bodysuit	(36/50)								
Sword (HTH+3 D=HTH+1d8, Double damage on Natural 1)	
Ray Pistol (R=Ax10 d=1d12 c=30/clip)									
Shield (ADR=100, One facing Force Sheild, 24 hr. recharge
Mace (HtH+2 D=HTH+1d10, 2d8 Vibratory Carrier Attack on 1 thru 5)
Life Support Unit (Bubble Helmet Field)									

Weight:	225	Basic Hits:		5		Agility Mod:	0
Strength:	15			Endurance:		30	
Agility:	30			Intelligence:		13	
Charisma:	14			React. Mod.:		1	
Hit Mod.	1.4	3.8	1.1	3.1	18.1412	Hit Points:	91
Dmg. Mod.:	4			Healing Rate:		4.5	
Accuracy:	5				Power:	88	
Carrying Capacity:		717		Base HTH Damage: 1d8
Movement Rates:		75	" Running (Base)				
440" Flying							
Det. Hidden:	10		%	Det. Danger:		14	%
Inventing Points:		3.9		Cash: 		 $-   	
Inventing:	39	%					

Origin and Background:			(British) Gladiatorial	
Description:	Costume and personal traits
ditto							
ditto							
Legal Status:		Deputized by local law enforcement
(Sec. Clearance =		0	)				

Other Information:

This message was last edited by the player at 00:54, Wed 08 Apr 2015.

The kickstarter for the 3.0 edition of V&V is now live:

https://www.kickstarter.com/pr...he-mighty-protectors

Anyone who backed the kickstarter should check their inbox for the pre-release PDF of the new rulebook.

Thanks for the heads up :)

Sad to see Days of Infamy go.

I would be glad to take it over and maintain it as one of my games for sentimental reasons.

I’m sad to see it go, also.
But I’d not be interested in continuing this game without Dale.
If someone wants to run their own game, I’d consider a new character (and also whether I even have the time to play).

Wasn't really thinking about running it, just keeping it for posterity.

I too would be interested in playing in a VnV game.

If people want me to "un-delete" the game so it can serve as an archive, I can do that.

I would love to pick it back up again, but the way my life's been, I can't say when that would be.  And I don't want to be so sporadic.  It stresses me out and feels shitty. ;)

I'm ready for a new game, and I'm cool w/our game being deleted altho it was sudden.

PEACE

SD

I copied The Bowler already. To be truthful, as soon as I see a chance (in ANY game) to use the character again, I will. It has become one of my favorites.

Being there as an archive would be great.

Just dropping a line here to see who all is still knocking about.....I have been on an extended hiatus from running or playing in any online games but I still think about all of you who I have played with. So I guess I am checking in to see who is around and how people are doing. :)

I'm still here. Trying to play/GM, but not doing well with either as the ravages of time force me to go to bed earlier in order to get the same amount of sleep.

Playing other games at the moment. Miss VnV.

I miss it as well!

Still around, also.
Gotta say, I miss the genre, and the fun roleplaying ... but not the system itself.

I miss playing with you guys.

Not running any games at the mo.  Playing in a few.  D&D 5E mostly.

Also, running a tabletop D&D game for my teenagers every week, unexpectedly.  My daughter's boyfriend wanted to try it, and the next thing you know I had a campaign. I thought it would be a one-shot...

Out of curiosity what superhero system do you prefer? Have you looked at the newest V&V?

I'll be honest; every now and then I look at the game and have a thought of resuming where we all left off....then realize it has been almost 2 years since any game posts were done.

we can make it work :)

I think if you restated the game, you’d find renewed interest from the players.
Haitius time sometimes kills a game, it is true ... some sometimes (on an ‘a Sense makes the heart grow fonder’ theory) it can have given those involved a refreshing break.


As for other games, I’ve played billions ... and dozens of Superhero genre games ... in the last 30 years.
I gravitate (when playing or running) towards simple, rules-life systems.  Anything with formulas within the gameplay or character generation process fall into the ‘complex’ catagory.

I really love Danger Patrol; an free, independant game.   And anything ‘Driven by the Apocolypse’.   PnP isn’t to bad, nor is Abharrent.
And I’ve come to appreciate the cinematic/narrative feel of Marvel Heroics ... although it is rules heavy also.

I've enjoyed both Icons and Prowlers and Paragons, honestly.

V&V is great, but it can bog down during combat.  I remember it was a lot, running fights in my campaign.

Ooooh, I remember you guys!  Hi!  It's been like, what... two whole weeks?

I love character creation in V&V - there really was something very special about it that I haven't seen another game really manage.  Usually being completely random like that is kind of annoying, and in V&V it totally worked.  I guess by choosing which tables to roll on, you get enough control?  I don't know.  I think that's why I kept trying to work out a character idea that would let me sort of... keep doing that.  Miracle and Princess Airhead were pretty good for that, but in hindsight, I think the idea just doesn't really work in the game.  It ends up being a lot more work than it's probably actually worth.

Actually playing V&V...yeah, it probably worked better tabletop, but the initiative system alone was seriously trouble here.


That's pretty awesome!  Always good to pull new people in!

..Well, maybe not always, but like, generally.

Wow. I suddenly grok Princess Airhead.
I've done a few other systems. Right now I'm trying to run two different systems on games here. One is Heroes Unlimited and the other is Hero System. I'm running 'Crisis at Crusader Citadel' in both of them.
Frankly, I'm not very good at it. No control over the momentum and prone to suddenly going quiet for a week. It reminds me of the absent minded waiter, "oh, I'm sorry, I just went to the Bahamas for a second there."

I feel you.  I had too much going on in RL to run a game any longer.  The lags were annoying everyone and I basically apologized every time I posted for it being so long since the last time I'd posted...

I picked up Icons but have not really had a chance to play it. The game on here died out early.

Still check in periodically.

Haven't done much online play lately.  I was in a Supers! Revised game briefly, before the GM flaked and stopped posting without any explanation (she apparently has time to start up some new games, though...).

In reply to Tesla (msg # 195):

I think I might have been in that game to :(

Put a post in Players Wanted, VnV game could take more players. Jump in!