Mods and Customizations.   Posted by Lord Dubu.Group: 0
Lord Dubu
 GM, 22 posts
Sat 3 Dec 2011
at 05:00
Mods and Customizations.
Playing around with the rules and doing your own homebrew thing? tell us about it.
Zag24
 player, 6 posts
Sat 3 Dec 2011
at 07:45
Re: Mods and Customizations.
Thanks Lord D!

I like skills.  They help to round out a character and make him more interesting.  I think, however, that neither D&D3.5 nor Pathfinder have gotten it right, yet.  Here is my current set of modifications to skills, but I continue to try to tweak it.  I've added in blue my rationale for these changes, which I usually leave out in the interest of brevity.  I'd welcome any input, suggestions, or constructive criticism.  (Feel free to add non-constructive criticism if you like, but be prepared to get as good as you give.)

  • Ignore the list of class skills.  You can take any skill you like, up to Character Level +3 of points applied to any skill.  (Plus, of course, any bonuses from the characteristic, feats, traits, etc.)  This means that the Pathfinder bonus to class skills is gone.  I dislike channeling characters into a narrow set of skills.  I'm perfectly able to justify a warrior with a penchant for languages, or a wizard who is an expert at armorsmithing.  From a mechanics point of view, I dislike some points being worth more than others.  In 3.5, points applied to class skills are worth more than points applied to non-class skills.  In Pathfinder, that first point applied to a class skill is worth WAY more than all the other points, due to that +3 bonus.  When it is the character's first level, you can justify it by saying that it includes his background.  But when you're a fourth level warrior and you pick up a level of rogue, why do you suddenly get 24 skill points, just because you spend your 6 skill points on 6 new rogue skills.
  • Everyone starts at level 0 with 3 x (6+int bonus), then they receive the normal allotment of points according to their class at level 1.  There is no "favored class" bonus for the level 0 points.  Why do rogues and bards have a richer pre-adventuring life than sorcerers?
  • Humans get 3 additional points when they start.  This is in addition to the extra point that they always get every level (including first).
  • Bards, Rogues, and Inquisitors, at first level, get a one-time bonus of 6 skill points, whether this is their first class or if they are multi-classing to the profession.  This represents basic training, and is equivalent to a fighter's training in all martial weapons or a wizard's training in 0-level spells.  A multi-class with more than one of these classes only gets this bonus only one time.
  • For Prestige classes and anything else that has a skill level as a prerequisite, the skill level required is increased by 3 (to maintain the same minimum level requirement that was intended in the first place).
  • Hide and Move Silently are separate skills.  (Pathfinder collapsed them into 'Stealth' but I'm uncollapsing them.)  If a particular Stealth level is a prerequisite for any class or ability, then either of these skills can fulfill it.  This is a game balance issue.  Even as separate skills, they are still used much more than most skills.  Also, part of the reason rogues got 8 + int modifier skill points was because of these two "required" skills (IMHO).
  • Listen and Spot are separate skills (Ditto.) but Search and Spot remain collapsed as the single skill "Spot."  Ditto.
  • The other sets of skills that Pathfinder collapsed will stay collapsed.
  • We will generally be using Fast-play Skills:  "http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras...lay-skills-reference
  • Diplomacy clarification:  http://www.giantitp.com/articl...Ywv7OUkegKhONNF.html  In addition, when a Diplomacy roll starts to fall into the realm of Bluff, even though I'll still let you use your Diplomacy skill (if it's higher than your Bluff), I will oppose with a Sense Motive skill roll as I would with a normal bluff.

This message was last edited by the player at 07:50, Sat 03 Dec 2011.

madcat
 player, 2 posts
Sat 3 Dec 2011
at 11:30
Re: Mods and Customizations.
I'd keep class skills, but change the name to Focus skills and make it so that whichever skills you pick at first level are your Focus skills.

Re; Differing number of starting skills for characters, the way I see it is that being a wizard doesn't allow you with much time to study other things, whereas being a Bard or a Rogue - well knowing things/knowing how to do things is a big part of how they function that isn't covered by their core class abilities.
Merkatz
 player, 3 posts
Sat 3 Dec 2011
at 17:03
Re: Mods and Customizations.
Hrmm... I can see some of the issues you were having with the skill system Zag (I share many of them), but I'm not entirely convinced that your system will make it noticeably better.  But hey, to each their own.

____________________

To start off with, my most commonly applied house rule: Combat Maneuvers only provoke AoO on a failed CMB check.  Improved X feats still make you never provoke when making that Combat Maneuver, as normal.  I find that this really livens up combat.  Low level Fighter/Barbarians/Rangers/etc can attempt disarms and grapples with a higher degree of safety.

___________________

And here is my major skill house rules:
  • Every character starts with 1 free rank in a Knowledge skill of their choice.  It is also a class skill for them.  This represents background knowledge that a character grew up with.
  • Every character starts with 1 free rank in a Profession or Craft skill of their choice.  This represents jobs or hobbies the character had before becoming an adventurer.
    • At every level after first, the character can continue to gain free ranks in their one Profession or Craft skill so long as they make good use of it, or roll play it out.
  • Profession and Craft skills act as "super skills."  They emulate a wide variety of skills in specific instances only, and may even have bonus uses.  Here are some example skills and some of what they can do:

    Profession (Soldier):
    • Can be used as a Knowledge skill to identify tactics and strength of organized groups based on formation, weapons and armor, and apparent discipline.  It can also identify humanoid made fortifications.
    • Can be used as Diplomacy when discussing military matters.
    • Can be used to train militia.

    Profession (Fisherman):
    • Can be used as a Knowledge skill to identify aquatic creatures.
    • Can be used as Diplomacy to gather information from other fisherman.
    • Can be used as Survival for gathering food near bodies of water.

    Craft (Jewelry):
    • Can be used as Appraise for the value of gems only.
    • Can be used to refine found gems to make them more valuable (including certain material components for spells).
    • Can be used as Spellcraft to identify magical jewelry.  If not using Detect Magic (or similar) the DC is +10 to get specifics.

seekerofshadowlight
 player, 2 posts
Tue 6 Dec 2011
at 23:54
Re: Mods and Customizations.
The only House rule I always use is a simple one. No class has less then 2 skills points per level. I have used this one for..humm 11 years now. All classes with 2 points, get bumped to 4.
DarkwindStriker
 player, 2 posts
 Better known in many
 places as Gatewalker
Wed 7 Dec 2011
at 01:42
Re: Mods and Customizations.
I just give every char an extra 2 skill points per level. Carryover from what I do in 3.5(which I have a...uh...ton of houserules for, but really who doesn't at this point). It's worked out rather well for me.
Zag24
 player, 7 posts
Wed 7 Dec 2011
at 02:24
Re: Mods and Customizations.
Merkatz, I like your mod and plan to steal it.  Thanks!
Superdad
 player, 2 posts
Sun 5 Feb 2012
at 15:12
Re: Mods and Customizations.
seekerofshadowlight:
The only House rule I always use is a simple one. No class has less then 2 skills points per level. I have used this one for..humm 11 years now. All classes with 2 points, get bumped to 4.


Same here... in 3.5 there was the '1 rank in a non-class skill cost 2 points' problem that I solved by making it 1 to 1... Pathfinder does not share this problem, and I don't mind that some skills do not get the +3 bump.

Merkatz
I've done something similar in my Planescape game I run tabletop.
Zag24
 player, 18 posts
Sun 5 Feb 2012
at 15:57
Re: Mods and Customizations.
Superdad, in 3.5, did you just do away with class skills altogether?  I've seen an approach where the non-class skills cost the same as the class skills, but had a lower cap on how high you could push them.  That is, for a 5th level character, his class skills could be a max of 8, and his non-class skills could be a max of 4, but they still only cost 8 and 4 skill points respectively.  This is the same cap that 3.5 has, but without the prohibitive cost.  Is that what you did, or just get rid of the class skills concept altogether?  (I realize that this doesn't apply to PathFinder.)

This message was last edited by the player at 15:58, Sun 05 Feb 2012.

Superdad
 player, 3 posts
Sun 5 Feb 2012
at 16:14
Re: Mods and Customizations.
I kept the non-class skill caps.
LoreGuard
 player, 8 posts
Tue 10 Jul 2012
at 15:23
Re: Mods and Customizations.
On a tangent, I noticed some time ago that Pathfinder got rid of some of the 'problematic' mechanics associated with the old 3.5 spiked chain by making it short 4 foot weapon, thereby eliminating its reach.  I understand the intent, as it does pretty completely eliminate the issues with it.  However, I was wondering about a couple of variants that seem viable, but I think this would not open a serious game balance issue.


Chain, Double, Spiked 50 gp
 1d6/1d6 2d4/2d4 x2 15 lbs.
 P disarm, trip CRB

Is a slightly longer chain, which can be used as a double weapon such as quarterstaff.  I am inclined to make it the same exotic proficiency of the shorter spiked chain but one could make it be different.  One might make it require a 13 STR and 13 DEX perhaps as a prerequisite.  (it could also require the short Spiked chain as a prerequisite proficiency as well)


Feat:  Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Double Spiked Chain)
Prerequisite: 13 STR, 13 DEX, BAB +1, ?Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain)?
As I said, I might consider one proficient with a Spiked Chain proficient with a Double Spiked Chain as long as they meet all the prerequisites.  If people can demonstrate that it is too 'unbalanced' an exotic weapon, I'd consider making the Double be a new weapon proficiency that required the normal spiked chain as a prerequisite.

Feat:  Spiked Lunge
Prerequisite: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Double Spiked Chain), 13 STR, 13 DEX, BAB +3?
As a swift or immediate action, extend the reach of a Double Spiked Chain by 5' for the purpose and resolution of a single attack.  This effect only applies to a single attack, and does not apply to any additional attacks earned.  It can be used to enable and resolve a single AoO with the extended reach as an immediate action, but as usual counts as their swift action for the next round.  This does not extend the reach of any additional attacks earned in the first attack.  I.e. It does not extend the reach of any multi-attacks such as cleave or whirlwind attacks, nor the extra attack after a trip, when granted.


Any thoughts on it.  I had to admit that I saw some cinematic flavor to the spiked chain concept that was kind of fun, and I think this would be a slightly feat expensive option that would give some flavor to the weapon group, but not make it overpowering.
Jarilye
 player, 17 posts
Tue 10 Jul 2012
at 16:56
Re: Mods and Customizations.
  Seems like a lot of feat requirements to get an effect not that different from Lunge.  The problematic portion of the spiked chain that you mentioned probably refers to abusing AoOs, and the Lunge feat accomplishes a very similar mechanic without extending to AoOs.  There's a penalty to hit, but perhaps you could put forth a feat that requires Lunge and Spiked Chain proficiency, and eliminates the penalty to hit when using lunge with a spiked chain?  That way people could enjoy a full attack action using the spiked chain at 10', but not get >9000 AoOs.

This message was last edited by the player at 17:10, Tue 10 July 2012.

LastChance
 player, 1 post
Sat 14 Jul 2012
at 05:05
Re: Mods and Customizations.
I never see reach weapons getting much use due to the whole can not attack adjacent opponents. So I implement a rule based off the short hafted feat from 3.5 I can't remember which book.

It allows a player with a reach weapon to hold it so it can attack adjacent opponents, but takes a free action to switch grips so you can attack someone close one round then switch grip and attack someone 10' away the next round, but you can't switch grips in the middle of a full round attack.
erbridge
 player, 3 posts
Sat 14 Jul 2012
at 23:52
Re: Mods and Customizations.
In PF, there's a feat for the dorn-dergar which has that effect, which could reasonably be copied to cover other weapons: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/...darting-viper-combat