A place where people can discuss films, books and tv. Warning may contain spoilers.

THANK YOU!

God I loved the Last Jedi. Not up to Empire Strikes Back, but close!

FYI my personal ranking of the nine movies so far.
1) Empire Strikes Back
2) Rogue One
3) A New Hope
4) The Last Jedi
5) The Force Awakens
6) Revenge of the Sith
7) Attack of the Clones
8) The Phantom Menace
9) Return of the Jedi

And I did like Return of the Jedi, so that shows what my opinion of the first three are.

Let the arguments begin.

I enjoyed Last Jedi. Preferred the first half rather than the second, liking the character building scenes over action. That tends to be my opinion of most modern movies, lots of noise but no story.

I remain a big fan of the old films, Return of Jedi was a film I enjoyed as a young teen and then grew out off to then later return to and appreciate the third and final part of the story it represented.

I can watch the prequels, they deliver space fantasy action. I don't like the way the Jedi are represented in them though. I prefer the way the Jedi are portrayed in the original triology and recent films.

Anyway that's my ramblings on the topic. I don't have a preferred list but New Hope and Empire stay at the top.

Question that wasn't answered in the film was who is Snoke? Anyone got any good theories?

I honestly think that Snoke was meant to be just a one dimensional plot device. Which is sad seeing as how he had such potential to be as nasty as the emperor. Unless there is a story released later that tells us I don't think we will ever know.

He was one of the two issues of the movie I had.

The other was the Porgs.

They were used well and didn't overwhelm the action, but they were obviously there for the kids, and only for the kids.

Incidentally it was the Ewoks that put me off of Return of the Jedi. I still like ROTJ but it's heavy use of the Ewoks was what put it last on my list.

The ewoks were one of the reason the liked ROFJ when I first saw it at the age of 8. As I grew up and stopped being a child I decided I didn't like them but looking at it now I'm happy with them.

My two boys, 13 and 14, both liked the Porgs, although they have very little to do with the film or story. I'd agree with your reasoning that they are there for the kids and merchandise.

As well as Snoke I also felt Phasma was underdeveloped as a character or a baddie. I would have liked to have seen more.

Positives I liked the characters of Rose and the Vice Admiral left in charge of the Rebel fleet.

I do want to say that I like the amount of screen time Chewie got in this movie. I knew he was a pilot, but in TLJ he was shown to be a real bad-ass pilot. It was nice to see him get moved out of sidekick and into hero status.

Yes good to see Chewie. I don't know how long he'll stay around however, there seems an effort is being made to take out all the old characters with Han in Force Awakens and Luke in Last Jedi. There's no expectations for Leia to survive so it only leaves Chewie, R2-D2 and C3-PO to go. Odds one of them won't survive episode IX.

On reflection who is the main protagonist in the current trilogy. Majority opinion seems to suggest Rey, but considering that the prequel trilogy was about Darth Vader, the original trilogy was about Luke Skywalker doesn't it dictate that the current trilogy is all about Kylo Ren???

Well for many people, the 6 first films were all about Vader.
His origin, his fall, his dark deeds and finally his redemption.

I doubt the new trilogy will follow the same path as the 'redemption arc' was clear in the last jedi and quickly cut down (pun intended).

I suppose you evidently noticed the 'broom boy' act at the end.
What's your opinion about it?

So if the trilogy is about Rey, what is it she doing? Is it to be resurrection of the Rebellion so that she can continue to oppose Kylo Ren.

Yes I noticed the boy in the final scene. I can't make my mind up whether it was just an ending or a beginning. As in will the boy have some further purpose in the next episode or was it just a tidy end to the film to show hope in the galaxy.

I think the main protagonist is the lot of them. Finn, Rey, Rose, and Poe. It seems that they are trying to show that you don't have to be special to be a hero. Rey's parents are nobodies, Finn was a faceless stormtrooper, Poe was just a pilot, Rose just a mechanic. Even the stable boy is a symbol of that.

The loss of Leia is obvious, due to Carrie Fisher dying, but I think they were trying to clear the board of the old guard, and open the path for new stories, and new heroes. They destroyed the Republic in the first movie, and killed Snoke in this one. They depleted the leadership of the resistance, and have raised a new type of leader in Poe, Finn, and Rey.

Chewie is old, but since, canonically, it's not been established how old Wookiees live, he could live for another 1000 years. He's a good companion to have around, as they have replaced the actor in the costume and no one seems to have noticed, so he can actually get more of a role. Plus he has the experience to help without being too overwhelming a presence.

The droids are timeless, and can stay, so I don't see anyone else dying from the original story. I think that had Carrie Fisher lived Leia would have been in nine as well, though taking a smaller role. She was passing the torch to Poe at the end when she said "What are you looking at me for?"

Personally I found the Porgs and the kids involved in the freeing of the racing beasts to be Disney touches (they seem to include kids for no reasons in many movies).
The secret rebellion decoder ring was just WAY too much product placement for my liking.

Aside from those touches, I loved the Last Jedi

In fairness, Star Wars has always been marketed for kids. So those touches weren't a big deal IMO. And seriously, didn't you just get a bit nostalgic when you saw the ring? I sure did.

I just saw The Last Jedi, and I loved it. I thought it was better than The Force Awakens, which felt very cluttered with unnecessary subplots. TLJ was just straightforward and focused.

It had more endings than The Return of the King however. :0 I expected it to end after the confrontation between Rey and Kylo, the escape to the planet, as a cliffhanger ending like The Empire Strikes Back. But nope, it kept on going and going. Then there were all the finishing scenes. It was rather exhausting.

I liked the animal moments, they added background detail and humour, made the planets seem alive. The porgs were funny to adults as well as children. (With all the fuss over them before the movie came out, I thought they'd be proper characters.) They reminded me a lot of when your not–Millennium Falcon ship gets infested by creatures in Knights of the Old Republic.

The children were also fine. They're a "what we're fighting for" moment, but didn't overwhelm the story, nor were they as annoying as little Anakin.

Once again, Captain Phasma was under-used and should have had a stronger role as a leader in the First Order, bickering with Hux, maybe.



Undoubtedly there will be, in tie-in novels or prequel movie or something. But Snoke was as much of a one-dimensional plot device as Palpatine in the Original Trilogy. He was no more than a deformed, cackling villain who insults and manipulates Vader, and was barely seen. We didn't learn anything about him and his rise to power until the prequels.

True there's similarities with the way Snoke in The Last Jedi and the Emperor in Return of the Jedi are protrayed. Both having little character or development or background and then betrayed by their faithful servants. Looking at it from afar its an important part of the battle of good versus evil that the bad guys are one-dimensional and there is no middle ground, so that everyone can follow the path of the hero without any sympathy for the evil doers. It's the appeal of stormtroopers (and likewise orcs in LOTR, to compliment your earlier reference) that they are faceless and evil, Snoke and the Emperor fit that too.

I've been catching up on Star Wars Rebels. Anyone else notice the reference to project Shantipole and the B-wings? Also the salty planet and crystal dogs in the last film seemed reminiscent of adventures past for the Alabak's Gold.

Yeah, I noticed that. They seemed to have taken the module as a basis and altered everything, probably for legal reasons. :)

So anyone here actually not like Solo?

I had expected a less than stellar movie, though I hoped for a great one. And I was delivered a much better movie than expected. The casting was my only issue, in that I was less than satisfied with the actor they got to play Han. He isn't bad, and preforms well, but it's hard to imagine him becoming Han in A New Hope.

Harrison Ford is arguably one of the greatest actors alive today, and those are big shoes to fill. Unfortunately the current crop of young actors are too pretty for the look.

I think otherwise they chose well for the rest of the cast. And the interplay between Han and Chewie was excellent. The rivalry and constant betrayal between Lando and Han is established here, and is worth the price of admission all on it's own.

And, Han shoots first.

Everything about the movie I liked. I love the Lore it added to the Cannon star wars universe. Seeing Corellia's underbelly, seeing Han go AWOL, seeing Han's Pistol is actually a rifle... there was so much I liked.

You know people are out to hate on a franchise when the movie hasn't been out a week, and they are already saying it's bombed at the box office.  On Thursday I saw a YouTube video up saying "all the reasons that Solo flopped at the box office".

Honestly people. with all the vitriol out there by haters, no one want's to go to a Star Wars movie, since they will get criticized for it. Why can't people just let people decide for themselves?

I went to see the film. Both my boys were excited and both enjoyed it.

I enjoy films less and less as I grow older. I'm a fan of the adventure story but not of all the action films, running around and noise. However I enjoyed Solo and thought it was a good film. Probably not worth the $250million it cost but okay for me.

My partner, not particularly a Star Wars fan (this is at least partly due to the two boys going on about it all the time), but a fan of origin stories so enjoyed it too. So it was a success with my family.

Lando and his capes were the highlight for me. Also the obligatory Warwick Davis character too :-)

Anyone watched the new Resistance TV series? Boys are not keen but I wondered if people thought it was good.

Well...
I saw a few episodes and I am far from thrilled.

I won't rush to try it myself then. I have heard rumours of a new Clone Wars series and also a new Live Action TV show, so it seems there's always something else if you find something you don't like.

I haven't even heard of it. There's too much out there now, I can't keep up. I haven't even finished Rebels yet.

We just finished watching Rebels this week and we all enjoyed it, that was why I asked if Resistance was worth a shot. When you have finished Rebels you'll have to let us know what you thought about the ending.

I don't watch the cartoons. No interest.

I like Rebels, but there's no way in hell I'm going to subscribe for yet another streaming service.

I watched most of Rebels, but not the last season. There was never a sense of weight to their actions. We knew had the story ends. Episode 4. Also, it's a Disney cartoon, so it's not like you were going to lose characters, not like Clone Wars.

You should watch the last season, in fact.

A work colleague told me the other day that they had watched the first 4 episodes of Resistance.

Their verdict was that the main characters weren't interesting. The good point were the animation was very good for the space battles. They said that was enough for them to keep watching it.

I've not seen the new film yet. Youngest son went with his girlfriend and my brother has been. Overall both of the thought it was okay. Eldest son refuses to go although he remains a Star Wars fan. I shall probably go see it at some time, has anyone else watched it or plan to go?

I plan to watch it at some point, but won't be spending $15 bucks to see it at a theater. I'm disappointed in the entire new series. They are all flash with no substance.

I realized I enjoyed watching the Last Jedi, but afterward hated the movie. This was due to it being entertaining to watch, but when I looked at it in hindsight, the story and plot sucked. There were numerous plot holes and things that were unnecessary, that felt added for no reason. the movie was too long due to added content that didn't need to be there. they killed characters that had been pivotal in the previous movie and had plotline points waiting for resolution that suddenly didn't matter, and romances that bloomed out of nowhere. It was a mess.

At least The Force Awakens, though a thinly disguised retelling of A New Hope, was decently written, even if the main character was a Mary Sue. No. I'll stick with The Mandalorian and hope the newer stories in the Star Wars Universe are better than the travesty that is the current crop of movies.

Well, I got the chance to watch it for free, some one else paid, so I didn't have to. Was pleasantly surprised, as it wasn't half bad. Rae didn't turn into such a Mary Sue after  all, and Abrams was able to salvage something from the mess that Rian Johnson left.

He ignored the love stories that Johnson tried to set up, reestablished the story lines he had setup in Force Awakes, and debunked the nonsense that Last Jedi had caused.

Still a bit choppy in places, mostly due to having to play fix-it for the first half of the movie, but if he hadn't had to do that, it probably would have been a better movie all around. Over all a good movie. I might actually go pay to see it again.

The movie is right around three hours long, which is why I think it's choppy in the first half of the movie. I think he had to cut a lot of scenes to fit them in for time and so it feels rushed for time in the first half. But this is really where he spends the majority of the time fixing the plot from The Last Jedi. After the mid point of the movie, he begins to slow down and pace begins to become normal, and it really shines.

There are some surprising cameos in this movie and if you're not watching carefully you'll miss them, so keep an eye out for them. I'm sure I missed a few.

I have seen it. Was first thing I did  when I got let out for Christmas. I was kinda hazy from all of the Oxy. I think it suffered from being a JJ movie, it seems like he can't hold a scene for more than 5 seconds without a cut.

And umm. Well, I have a sub to Disney now. And baby yoday is SOOOO CUTE!!!! Not finished yet, but I'm pleased at the show.

Movie was pretty good, but some it...
The love story for Finn was all but massacred. Whether it be Poe or Rose.
The scene with Leia seemed very..generic?
I might be misremembering some things too.

This is due to his need (I think) to cut the movie for time and needing to repair the damage from Last Jedi. If he hadn't needed to fix so much shit from that movie he probably could have left more of this stuff out, and taken his time with the first half of the movie.


The love story between Rose and Finn was ridiculous to begin with, and frankly I was glad he dropped it. though I am curious as to what Finn kept wanting to tell Rae throughout the entire movie but kept getting stopped.


They only had the footage that she had already shot and though they wanted to finish the story with her in a meaningful way, they needed to work around those scenes. I think they did a masterful job of using what they had and doing it tastefully without making it look gaudy or cheep. I liked those scenes tremendously because they worked, without being pointless or shoehorned in. They fit into the story.

Groan... It's Yoda nod Yoday,

It's clear JJ clearly had others plans for what should have happened in 8 and did his best to redirect the ship. I'm not certain they had a clear view of the storyline for the third trilogy. At least for the other two, there was a clear direction.

I do think it's a bit sad the message 'the Force is inside everyone' got dropped.
There was so much they could have done with the last panel of the 'broomstick boy' and all that was behind it.

Another thing I'm not very happy with this trilogy is the 'the Force can do anything' part (especially the 'teleport' thing...) . And the strength in power disparities (like the fact Rey and Kylo managed to stop a transport, but Kylo let the Falcon flee a little later, or the huge Force lightning of the Emperor then he is in trouble a few meters from Rey and some pitiful lightning...


The main theory (I think it was even confirmed, as there are many hints along the movies) is that he wanted to tell her he could sense the Force too.




True... and they did show 'Force healing' there before putting it in the movies.

Yup, but in the game, all we have is Vital Transfer...which isn't quite the same thing. Still I'll get better at it soon (next level I think I can go for Jedi Knight)

FYI: The "healing" in both the movie and the show does seem to be Vital Transfer. Baby Yoda seems greatly weakened after he heals someone, and Rae says she transferred her life essence into the other persons in one scene.

---

Spoiler text: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)
And then Ben's last scene in the movie confirms this as well if you think about it.

---

As for the lightning that's a bit hit or miss. I think we need to suspend disbelief there. plot and story are the main reason for that.

Baby Yoda is greatly weakened by any great use of the force.

True.
He is a child.

Have any of you seen the news that George Lucas may be taking back control of Star Wars? Supposedly when Kathleen Kennedy's contract runs out next year there is a rumor GL may be coming back to take control of the franchise. And as it is KK is currently being sidelined on almost all the projects.

I've not heard about this. Is it likely to happen.

I did play a bit on the Fallen Order game this weekend, as it was available on the game pass. It lots of running about, not sure where the story is going but something about finding young Force sensitives.

Disney has confirmed that her contract will not be renewed, but they are playing it off as if she is going on to other things. Guess taking a 50% hit in revenue in the Star Wars franchise makes a difference.

As to her current duties, I've been hearing her direct control has been reduced, and the Brie Larson series she was still heavily in control of has been rumored to be canceled. It leads me to seriously considering her sidelined.

So last week I watched the season finale of the Mandalorian. And I have to say, if you are not watching that, you need to be. It helps restore Star Wars to it's rightful status. It's not perfect, but it is a hell of a lot better than the Sequel travesty. Disney has realized they fucked up with that, and now are working hard to fix it. I'm not sure if the rumors of the sequels being de-canonized are true or not, but The Mandalorian is a good step towards it. The show runners are obviously fans themselves and are keeping to the spirit of the Star Wars universe and the original theme.

Also the season finale was a straight up love letter to the fans.

Yes I have been watching the Mandalorian TV show. I'd say that it tried too hard to please in places but generally I like it. As each episode varied between 30-45 minutes it was easy to watch and I feel each episode held up on it own. That's a rather big bonus for me as I do get fed up with complex long plots which depend on knowledge gleaned from multiple prior series of stuff. I like my TV shows (I do also apply this to books, games etc my go to is to read short stories) to be simple and short. This was what George Lucas initially set out to do with his labelling New Hope at episode IV, he wanted it to be a episode where you didn't need to know what had happened in the last 3 episodes to enjoy the story.

In the future Disney have announced loads of Star Wars TV shows in the next 12 months. I do have my doubts with the quality considering the amount of quantity. An opinion I had of the plethora of books, comics and games which were released in the nineties. A picked up a few but eventually gave up as there was too many to know which were the good ones. Then after the nineties they were filming movies again, which have varied in quality too in my opinion.

Overall looking forward to see what comes next.

I haven't seen The Mandalorian and haven't even seen the final sequel movie yet. I feel like I'm missing out on something, but when I saw the list of all the proposed new series for Star Wars and Marvel, I just realised I'd never keep up with all of it anyway, so why bother? TV is now like the endless expanded universes of novels and comics and games for various franchises I couldn't keep up with either. It's all too much to attract casuals and new fans.

In reply to Lyla Rahn (msg # 48):

I was saying that the other day. Being a nerd used to be easy (aside from the bullying). You'd have 1 maybe 2 movies a year come out part of the "nerd culture" and the rare TV show, but now there is so much content that it's impossible to watch it all. Which feels like a good thing, but still sucks.

@Lyla Do yourself a favor and skip The Rise of Skywalker. But definitely check out The Mandalorian.

As to the plethora of shows/movies, don't try and watch them all. Instead look for what interests you, and focus on that. I am not so interested in Obi Wan Kanobi, Ahsoka, Visions, or The Acolyte for example. I might give them a look just to see if they surprise me, but I am interested in Andor, Rangers of the New Republic, and Lando. So I will probably watch those. However Rogue Squadron is what I most want to see. Well that and The Book of Boba Fett.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:03, Tue 29 Dec 2020.

I agree with Chu.

Thing is, even if The Rise of Skywalker is terrible or disappointing, there's still a strong obligation to watch it just to know what all the fuss and discussion is about, just to see to the en of the trilogy, and just because it is a Star Wars movie. So, given the opportunity, I would watch it just for those reasons. And I think a lot of TV and movie producers trade off that – we watch because it's important, not because it's good or necessary (and, good or bad, nothing about the sequel trilogy needed to be made).

And there's another thing – I don't have Disney+, I only have Netflix and won't have a second streaming service. Since Disney has all the Star Wars, there's not a lot of option for actually seeing all this. Everyone on Disney+ and Amazon and the rest is behind a big paywall, so it's not an option. Well, not legally, anyway. Culture is increasingly carved up and segregated.

I was in no rush to watch Rise of Skywalker, I have watched it now, nothing really much to report, not sure if I really recall much about it. As everyone seems to agree there's been a glut of Star Wars stories over 40 years so it gets harder to distinguish one from the others.

I don't really have a favourite character in the saga but I do prefer the era around New Hope, maybe because of my age and it being the Star Wars I would imagine as a child with the toys.

So the only new series I'm looking forward to is the Rangers series as I hope it has Kim from Kim's Convenience in it and I enjoyed that show.

It was really weird hearing Appa without the accent.

In fairness, there are two points I'd make about the sequel trilogy. First, is that if it wasn't a Star Wars series, it wouldn't be that bad. Last Jedi would have still sucked, but if it hadn't been a Star Wars movie, and instead had been just a Sci-fi film, the backlash wouldn't have been as bad.

Second. If JJ had been allowed to break Rise of Skywalker into two movies like it's rumored he wanted too, that movie might have been somewhat acceptable. but because he had to spend the first half of the movie fixing The last Jedi, he was rushed telling the rest of the story.

Yes me too. I've heard he's a big cosplayer and fan and that's how he got the role. It does seem to me that the people involved in the TV shows are big fans.