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09:48, 28th March 2024 (GMT+0)

The Mint Gambling Hall ((OOC IV))

Posted by The StrayFor group 0
Catherine Hays Cox
player, 263 posts
Texas Ranger
P5 T6 W0 F0 Cha0 W7R0B0L1
Thu 23 Mar 2017
at 22:21
  • msg #449

Re: A Crazy Person's List

Tan Xiaohan:
Yes. The Union will definitely send their Home Guard to the Dakotas, too. And the Navy. Definitely the Navy. Frikkin' boats all over Mt.Rushmore.


Sweet! You had me at Home Guard, but the Navy is like frosting.

I, uh, gotta go see a man...about a thing. Yeah....be right back.
Tan Xiaohan
Screaming Rabbit, 1213 posts
Born to run
P5 T5 W0 F0 Cha 0 W1R2B0
Thu 23 Mar 2017
at 22:25
  • msg #450

Re: A Crazy Person's List

Catherine Hays Cox
player, 264 posts
Texas Ranger
P5 T6 W0 F0 Cha0 W7R0B0L1
Thu 23 Mar 2017
at 22:32
  • msg #451

Re: A Crazy Person's List

Probably guys just like that. Only more of them.

Maybe a bunch of young, macho men that want to go west at 5 o'clock in the morning, not stopping the music before they get to San Francisco. Such sleazy citizens of the world are ready for the (18)80's, because far away in America everybody is a star on such a magic night on fire island.
Tan Xiaohan
Screaming Rabbit, 1214 posts
Born to run
P5 T5 W0 F0 Cha 0 W1R2B0
Thu 23 Mar 2017
at 22:34
  • msg #452

Re: A Crazy Person's List

*applause*
Matthew Broaddale
player, 480 posts
US Marshal
P5 T5 W0 F0 Cha 0 w2r0b0
Thu 23 Mar 2017
at 22:40
  • msg #453

Re: A Crazy Person's List

@Tan: I agree with you about the consequences of Custer's death, but I do think you're being a little harsh on soldiers, in general. Not in their actions, but in the assessment of their mental state. To label soldiers out of hand as sociopaths is, I think, a little harsh.
Tan Xiaohan
Screaming Rabbit, 1215 posts
Born to run
P5 T5 W0 F0 Cha 0 W1R2B0
Thu 23 Mar 2017
at 22:58
  • msg #454

Re: A Crazy Person's List

I was on mercenaries (specifically Custer's), not soldiers. One can have a lot of reasons for being a soldier. One can have pretty much only one for being a mercenary on an overtly genocidal campaign.
Matthew Broaddale
player, 481 posts
US Marshal
P5 T5 W0 F0 Cha 0 w2r0b0
Thu 23 Mar 2017
at 23:00
  • msg #455

Re: A Crazy Person's List

Fair enough, Xiaohan.

I also thought that there were more of Manning's soldiers in the force than there are; I thought they comprised the majority of the force (instead of likely a large section of the infrastructure).
Tan Xiaohan
Screaming Rabbit, 1216 posts
Born to run
P5 T5 W0 F0 Cha 0 W1R2B0
Thu 23 Mar 2017
at 23:13
  • msg #456

Re: A Crazy Person's List

A coup by Manning would have some chance of sucess, as his forces are probably far better diciplined: it's the logistics that are awkward. He could attempt to ask the Nations themselves for financial help, if they Cheyenne or Art/Mose were willing to take a message to start negociations. So long as he didn't unwittingly make contact with Ravenites first.

See, part of the reason I'd like to see the Storm finished properly is that I really want to see what my horrible unreformed white trash Confederate would make of this mess from ground level. I suspect he'd look at Custer's lot/the DMA and go '...y'all are fucked up' (actually he'd go "...", but that'd be the sentiment behind it).
Art C. Wiley
Finally Listening, 413 posts
Speckled brother
P6 T5 W0 F0 Cha0 W4R1B3L1
Thu 23 Mar 2017
at 23:17
  • msg #457

Re: A Crazy Person's List

Well....Wovoka did specifically instruct Art to try to find Manning. So they are already aware of Manning and trying to figure out if they can work with him.
Matthew Broaddale
player, 482 posts
US Marshal
P5 T5 W0 F0 Cha 0 w2r0b0
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 00:29
  • msg #458

Re: A Crazy Person's List

I feel like some of the disconnect here may be down to the expectations at play.

We all know there are some things, some expectations that come along with playing in a heroic, change-the-world fiction setting that aren't, in the strictest sense, realistic. Destroy the ring and the tower falls, etc. And as written in a lot of the reloaded material, I feel like this kind of "kill the fearmonger and everything calms down" attitude is encouraged MORE often than it is shown false.

When you put the narrative conventions up against historical examples of occupying armies and such (as is inevitable in a alt-history setting), you're gonna get into things that look like Great Man and the like, because a lot of fantasy and horror works off of that kind of concept.

And in Deadlands, where killing a monster can actively lower the amount of horribleness in an area, these things get muddier. I mean, whose to say (other than the Stray, since this is his game) that Custer's death won't drop the fear level enough to keep things level? I can definitely see an argument for tale telling about his just and necessary execution to make things less tense instead of more.
Tan Xiaohan
Screaming Rabbit, 1217 posts
Born to run
P5 T5 W0 F0 Cha 0 W1R2B0
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 00:55
  • msg #459

Re: A Crazy Person's List

Sure, I see where mechanics/PC saviour expectations might be playing into things (Zek's positing sounds a lot like a Dark Lord driving orcs, actually, which do scatter even over hostile terrain when the object of fear is removed, it's just organised and self-motivated human mercs aren't orcs), and that might calm things down temporarily on the psychological side.

It's just that physically, by pure logistics, several thousand men need to eat something, and they can't just go get it without interacting with the locals, people against whom they have demonstrated at the least disdain for the lives of (even if they pranced in and killed nothing but enough buffalo to last them the route march out, it risks a band or three that relied on that herd starving, and not being able to later contribute men to the Nations' defense) and at most the urge to violently wipe off the face of the planet.
The Stray
GM, 2129 posts
The Marshal
'round these parts
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 01:02
  • msg #460

Re: A Crazy Person's List

The big thing that drew me to Deadwood as a setting in Deadlands was that fact that it bent the normal "Kill the monster, the problem goes away" sort of structure. It is explicitly stated that Deadwood's problems are purely the cause of human activity, which is what made it such a nice change of pace from my other game, The Storm.

Sure, thare are supernatural nuicances in Deadwood, but they aren't the main problem. The problem at the heart of Deadwood is something that can't just be taken taken to the mat and beaten into submission. It allows me to explore themes of military adventurism, cultural clashes, genocide, terrorism, and complex problems requiring complex solutions.
Belle Ivers
player, 384 posts
Iron Horse Whisperer
P:6 T:5 W:0 F:0 W3R1B0
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 01:19
  • msg #461

Re: A Crazy Person's List

I think my favorite NPC may actually be Joseph Bearclaw for that reason.  His thoughts are the closest to my actual thoughts on what the ideal resolution would be here.

I actually do like the overall situation created here, it's got a lot more nuance than a lot of things Pinnacle has done.

I think my main criticism so far is that if the canon of Deadlands is that this territory is forever left in the dark ages, it kind of puts any Mad Scientist character in an awkward place to find a motivation to make that happen.
The Stray
GM, 2130 posts
The Marshal
'round these parts
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 01:39
  • msg #462

Re: A Crazy Person's List

Belle Ivers:
I think my favorite NPC may actually be Joseph Bearclaw for that reason.  His thoughts are the closest to my actual thoughts on what the ideal resolution would be here.


That's amusing to me, for Reasons.

quote:
I actually do like the overall situation created here, it's got a lot more nuance than a lot of things Pinnacle has done.


It's part of me actually adding nuance back in to the situation, really.

quote:
I think my main criticism so far is that if the canon of Deadlands is that this territory is forever left in the dark ages, it kind of puts any Mad Scientist character in an awkward place to find a motivation to make that happen.


Yup, although to be fair, there's a lot of Retcon involved here. TONS of it, which now I have to wade through. I blame John Hopler, the guy who wrote Spirit Warriors and gave us The Great Summoning in the first place (there wasn't any mention of this at all in earlier HoE materials, and everything since has been dancing around the great gaping logical problems it created (mystic totem poles keep technology running! wut?).

I'm doing my best to Scotch Tape around it all.
The Stray
GM, 2131 posts
The Marshal
'round these parts
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 02:04
  • msg #463

Re: A Crazy Person's List

The whole thing about the Great Summoning reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouMV8EhR3Jw
Belle Ivers
player, 386 posts
Iron Horse Whisperer
P:6 T:5 W:0 F:0 W3R1B0
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 02:08
  • msg #464

Re: A Crazy Person's List

The Stray:
The whole thing about the Great Summoning reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouMV8EhR3Jw

LOL

Well bear in mind though I own this Plot Point book, I have purposefully never read it.
Matthew Broaddale
player, 483 posts
US Marshal
P5 T5 W0 F0 Cha 0 w2r0b0
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 04:35
  • msg #465

Re: A Crazy Person's List

@Belle: You're a stronger person than I. I read it as soon as it got to my house. Then again, that was during the hiatus.

Thought that occurred as I was looking over the dueling rules for my home game:

Does anyone wish the Duel rules were a little more ... Classic? I dunno, I get hung up on the fact that one half of the duel can guarantee that both participants fire at the same time, since there's only two "speeds" and they are selected by the participants.

I mostly just wish there was an option for a good enough duelist to consistently shoot before their opponent clears leather. As it stands, ANY duelist could shoot simultaneously with Stone, with at most a -4 (which is substantial), and more likely with only a -2, which only means that they missed, not that they were slower on the draw.
Tan Xiaohan
Screaming Rabbit, 1218 posts
Born to run
P5 T5 W0 F0 Cha 0 W1R2B0
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 10:06
  • msg #466

Re: A Crazy Person's List

Belle Ivers:
I think my main criticism so far is that if the canon of Deadlands is that this territory is forever left in the dark ages, it kind of puts any Mad Scientist character in an awkward place to find a motivation to make that happen.


Maybe Mad Scientists can discover compassion and realise this is how the least people die? Or - or - they could see the non-manitou-driven, non-colonial/diverse magitech future Rabbit and her lazor are trying to create and get nore excited about the new New Science after the dance Dance revoloution.

I mean, picture where science could go with ideas from more than one philisophical tradition, plus the ability to bend physics whenever necessary. Sure, you'd have to pray to the horse spirit in your fuelless motorcycle, and keep the thing beautifully decorated and in excellent repair to keep it happy, but imagine science as integrated with the populace as religion, never not being able to repair things, everything sustainable except the trains, which they're working on...frustrated little pain/fear-feeder demons becoming omnivourous, feeding on creative satisfaction, driving Sane Scientists towards works of enlightenment...

...you'd get whole new and undreamt-of problems, of course, because no-one's ever made a criminal-onna-stick ogre-powered ploughing machine before, or accounted for the tendancy of a captured pain-feeder manitou bound and used as anaesthetic to mutate the patients unless dinged upside what passes for a head by a shaman, but they'd be equal problems for everyone, not just natives disenfranchised by enforced, capitalist-driven Western "progress". It could be like science...with more science!
Belle Ivers
player, 387 posts
Iron Horse Whisperer
P:6 T:5 W:0 F:0 W3R1B0
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 12:10
  • msg #467

Re: A Crazy Person's List

Well...

1) You're talking about the here and now as far as how many people don't die, but how many people will die in the future because in the year 20XX, the Sioux are still using the same medicine from hundreds of years ago, for instance?

As a player I actually agree with you that this whole scenario is a kind of Koboyashi Maru in that the "win" condition is that both the human and supernatural aggressions stop and the respective societies then evolve naturally (in fact in the long term if they would actually trade instead of just invading that would eventually foster better conditions for everyone involved), but that realistically can't happen without something giving; either one side or the other dies or the supernatural gains more ground on Earth.

The latter is the least costly in terms of currently living people sure, but it's not without other costs.  How many brilliant Sioux astronomers, physicists, etc. will be lost because of this?

Now if I were sort-of-God in this scenario and I had to pick one, well I'd fall on the side of saving the currently existing people, but IC, no one has such a cosmic perspective.

2) But you're talking about it from the perspective, OOC, of a player who understands The New Science is actually obfuscated magic masquerading as Victorian era pseudo-science.

A Mad Scientist cannot conceive of the very concept they're possessed by a spirit that drives them to create magical things; it is the belief that what they're doing has a rational explanation (when it doesn't) which makes the magic work.  The healing potion and movable type are the same to them, mentally.

If you pulled back the curtain on a Mad Scientist somehow and convinced them of the truth, they could become incredibly dangerous to both their own manitou and by extension the Reckoners to the point it's setting-breaking.  In fact this is why there's actually only one Mad Scientist who figures it out, and look what he does to the Reckoners...

The point being, no Mad Scientist outside of one could ever be capable of understanding the world in such a way.
The Stray
GM, 2132 posts
The Marshal
'round these parts
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 14:39
  • msg #468

Re: A Crazy Person's List

As a rebuttal...

quote:
METAL MAGE

Edge: Arcane Background (Metal Mage)
Requirements: Wild Card, Novice, Repair d4+, Thaumaturgical Diffusion d4+
Arcane Skill: Thaumaturgical Diffusion (Smarts)
Power Points: 10
Starting Powers: 2
Backlash: None.
Available Powers: Aim, armor, barrier, beast friend, blast, blind, bolt, boost/lower Trait, burrow, burst, confusion, damage field, darksight, deflection, detect/conceal arcana, disguise, dispel, drain Power Points, elemental manipulation, entangle, environmental protection, farsight, fear, fly, gambler, greater healing, havoc, healing, hunch, invisibility, jury rig, light/obscure, mind rider, pummel, puppet, quickness, slow, slumber, smite, speak language, speed, stun, succor, telekinesis, teleport, trinkets, wall walker, warrior’s gift, wilderness walk, windstorm, zombie.
Special Rules:
  • Daemon: Metal mages have come to terms with the fact that manitous provide inspiration to mad scientists as well as raw energy to hucksters, and have learned the science of extracting that energy for "free" —that is, without the risk of Backlash. However, metal mages are stalked by their daemons, which appear as mythic beasts or totem animals terrifying in aspect. When a metal mage rolls snake eyes on a Thaumaturgical Diffusion check, the daemon gets its revenge as the Marshal rolls on the Backfire Table (in the Deadlands Marshal’s Handbook). Bennies can’t be used to avoid this outcome!
  • Gadgeteer: A metal mage gets the Gadgeteer Edge for free, but it functions differently and she cannot take the normal Edge. With success on a Thaumaturgical Diffusion roll at –2, she summons a device that replicates any power available to metal mages a number of times per session equal to half her Spirit. This takes one action instead of the usual 1d20 minutes required by the Gadgeteer Edge. Each device has Power Points equal to half the metal mage’s total (round down); when the Power Points are expended (or the session ends) the device stops functioning. The metal mage can use these devices or share them with others per Mad Scientists in Savage Worlds, but they are subject to those rules, including Malfunctions.
  • Refine Cores: Metal mages can refine shaped fuel cores from raw ghost rock. A successful Thaumaturgical Diffusion roll and one hour’s time turns 1 lb of unrefined ghost rock into a 1-lb fuel core. On a raise, the process produces two fuel cores if the metal mage has another pound of ghost rock handy. Critical failure results in a spectacular explosion, causing 3d6 damage in a Medium Burst Template.
  • Weird Science Origins: Metal mages may take the Mr. Fix It Edge, ignoring the Arcane Background (Weird Science) requirement and substituting Thaumaturgical Diffusion d8+ for Weird Science.


History

R. Percy Sitgreaves started out as a huckster, and later in life became interested in the New Science. He got a job as an inventor—a mediocre one at best—at Smith & Robards, but they soon fired him. No matter, for Sitgreaves had a startling epiphany: The “inspirations” of mad scientists clearly came from manitous, just as hucksters’ power did. The truth shook him. Sitgreaves founded Infinity Press and became the sole printer of his former employers’ annual catalog. He made a far better printer than an inventor, and for all his flaws his former employers still trusted him. Soon he developed “thaumaturgical diffusion,” a melding of magic and mad science to the enhancement of both. Sitgreaves has trained nearly a dozen so-called “metal mages” in the past five years. Sitgreaves encodes his newfangled hexes into the text of each Smith & Robards Catalog.

Trappings

Metal mages’ Trappings mix the practical and fantastical. Mages use their powers to create functional devices, but they form out of thin air, puffs of purplish smoke, or assemble themselves from whirling funnels of parts. A blast power might manifest as a grenade, teleport could involve rail lines, and mind rider may create a telegraph wiretap.


There aren't a lot of Mad Mages out there, but they do exist, and it's where Junkers eventually come from.
The Stray
GM, 2133 posts
The Marshal
'round these parts
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 16:49
  • msg #469

Re: A Crazy Person's List

And now I kinda want to make a Techno-Shaman Arcane Background with this as a template...

TECHNO SHAMAN

Edge: Arcane Background (Techno Shaman)
Requirements: Wild Card, Novice, Spirit d6+, Smarts d6+, Repair d4+, Binding Medicine d4+
Arcane Skill: Binding Medicine (Spirit)
Power Points: 10
Starting Powers: 1
Backlash: Techno Shamans rely on appeasing the spirits that power their devices. If someone uses a Fetish and rolls a 1 on the skill die used to activate it (regardless of Wild Die), the spirit inside the device takes offense and makes the Fetish malfunction in some way. Draw a card and compare it to the Malfunction Table in Savage Worlds. If the roll was snake eyes, draw twice, and Fate Chips cannot be spent to avoid the malfunction.
Available Powers: Aim, armor, barrier, beast friend, blast, blind, bolt, boost/lower Trait, burrow, burst, confusion, contact spirit world, damage field, darksight, deflection, detect/conceal arcana, disguise, dispel, drain Power Points, elemental manipulation, entangle, environmental protection, farsight, fear, fly, gambler, greater healing, havoc, healing, hunch, invisibility, jury rig, light/obscure, mind rider, protection, pummel, puppet, quickness, slow, slumber, smite, speak language, speed, stun, succor, summon ally (animals only), telekinesis, teleport, trinkets, vision quest, wall walker, warrior’s gift, wilderness walk, windstorm.
Special Rules
  • Fetishes: The Gizmos created by a techno shaman (called Fetishes) are always hand-made labors of love, gussied up with beads, intricate carvings, odd materials, and other such accouterments to please the spirits inside them. They crackle with weird energies when used to activate powers, which draws attention. For onlookers, a Notice roll at –2 reveals something “odd” about the Fetish, though a Persuasion roll may explain it away as New Science or some other mundane effect. With a raise on the Notice roll, an observer becomes convinced that the techno shaman's device runs on black magic!
  • Madness: Mixing science and mysticism the way techno shamans do puts a strain on normal minds. Part of this is learning to think in innovative ways, and part of this is a sacrifice the techno shaman makes to the spirits, trading a bit of their sanity for their power. They gain one of the following hindrances: Arrogant, Overconfident, Curious, Delusional (Major), or Mania (Major).
  • Minor Fetish Creator: Once per game session, the techno shaman can create a magic talisman and imbue it with arcane energy. The device uses any power available to the shaman (though this is still subject to Rank restrictions). It has half the creator’s Power Points and once these are used up they do not recharge. The ritual to imbue the object takes 1d20 minutes. Activating the device requires a Spirit roll.
  • Mixed Background: The Techno Shaman bridges the gap between Shamanism and Weird Science. They may take the Totem Spirit, Ghost Dance and Mr. Fix-It Edges, using their Binding Medicine skill in place of Weird Science or Tribal Medicine.
  • Wonder Maker: The techno shaman can also create Wonders as well as Fetishes. A Wonder must be prepared ahead of time. A techno shaman has half his normal Power Points to divide among as many Wonders as he wishes. Extra points may be put into a Wonder to maintain duration or strengthen the effect. These extra Power Points are "tied up" in a Wonder until it is used.

    Making a Wonder requires certain special materials and 30 minutes per power. At the end of the binding process, the techno shaman must make a Binding Medicine roll. Failure means the Wonder is ruined. Success indicates it will work when used, and raises work as usual. Attack powers require a Throwing roll to hit (range of 3/6/12), and opposed powers require a normal success to resist (or –2 with a raise). Otherwise, no roll is needed to use a Wonder.


Playing a Techno Shaman

Techno shamans create devices to house spirits of all kinds, in order to convince them to lend their aid. These devices are like Weird Science gizmos, except that they aren't powered by manitou (usually). Instead, the techno shaman makes a pact with a spirit, providing it with a fancy, hand-created home to flatter it. The shaman then uses the fetish to create spectacular effects. Velocipedes powered by horse spirits, shirts that can repel bullets, rifles that can call forth bolts of lightning...all of these and more are possible.

History

Techno Shamans came about when some enterprising Ghost Dancers met an Apache named Goes To Mass. Goes To Mass was a Mad Scientist, but oddly his devices didn't seem to carry the taint of the manitou that other Mad Scientists had around them. Goes To Mass claimed that he'd come from another world, one where the Apache had developed airships and other mechanical wonders by convincing the spirits to power their devices, binding them into object through careful craftsmanship and rigorous maintenance. He also claimed he was General Lee's cousin on his mother's side and that he'd visited the moon once, so the truth of this is suspect.

But Plays With Fire, a Ghost Dance shaman who'd always been fascinated with the white man's technology even as he kept to the Old Ways, wanted to know more about this strange world Goes To Mass spoke of. The vision inspired him, and he studied under Goes To Mass for a year until he mastered the techniques Goes had brought with him (or developed). Plays With Fire then traveled on, eager to share this new technique with others. To date, he's trained about five other shamans (mostly other Ghost Dancers) in the binding techniques required to craft fetishes, but that number is sure to rise...

((OOC: I'm taking inspiration from the Taftani here.))
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:50, Fri 24 Mar 2017.
Matthew Broaddale
player, 485 posts
US Marshal
P5 T5 W0 F0 Cha 0 w2r0b0
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 17:02
  • msg #470

Re: A Crazy Person's List

Funnily enough, the Metal Mage founder Sitgreaves lived out the end of his days in the Sioux nations, learning of shamanism.

Arcane Backgrounds: Gotta Catch 'em All!
Belle Ivers
player, 389 posts
Iron Horse Whisperer
P:6 T:5 W:0 F:0 W3R1B0
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 17:33
  • msg #471

Re: A Crazy Person's List

Yeah but Sitgreaves is a Huckster who invents Mad Science without all the drawbacks, not a Mad Scientist.  Those in universe who are not Mad Scientists will themselves always understand how Mad Science works better than actual Mad Scientists do.

My point was a Mad Scientist character, unless they're one particular NPC, will never be able to untangle the New Science from the natural state of humanity.
Matthew Broaddale
player, 487 posts
US Marshal
P5 T5 W0 F0 Cha 0 w2r0b0
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 17:48
  • msg #472

Re: A Crazy Person's List

That's fair. I think "The Junkman Cometh" indicates that Mad Scientists could come to grips with the magical nature of their work, but they were reticent, and I think they had a Sitgreavean on the team, and it was a slow process that involved Nazi research.


And they had a certain all-powerful quadrillionaire telling them "Hey! It works like this. Get with the program or you're fired. Out of a cannon."
Belle Ivers
player, 390 posts
Iron Horse Whisperer
P:6 T:5 W:0 F:0 W3R1B0
Fri 24 Mar 2017
at 17:54
  • msg #473

Re: A Crazy Person's List

Matthew Broaddale:
That's fair. I think "The Junkman Cometh" indicates that Mad Scientists could come to grips with the magical nature of their work, but they were reticent, and I think they had a Sitgreavean on the team, and it was a slow process that involved Nazi research.


And they had a certain all-powerful quadrillionaire telling them "Hey! It works like this. Get with the program or you're fired. Out of a cannon."


My Classic books were stolen long ago, otherwise I'd go reread it...

Sadly I think most Mad Scientists, if they learned the truth, would either commit suicide or suffer a nervous breakdown they'd never recover from.  To lose free will is to lose one's humanity after all.
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