Katisara:
I don't know, is it desirable to make people live forever?
*** Well, are we
making them live forever, or just
allowing them to? Forced immortality would be wrong, but if someone wishes to choose that, why would it be undesirable?
gammaknight:
Ask anyone who has been handycapped from birth if they wish that they had been aborted or not.
*** Yes, I do.
Falkus:
I believe that people should have the right to choose the time and means of their own death. Nature didn't give us this ability, so we should develop it ourselves.
*** See, this is what I meant above (in response to Katisara); if someone wants to choose to put off their death, why would that be bad? And using the nature argument is like saying we shouldn't try to cure cancer, or AIDS, or polio (or any other "natural" disease).
Falkus:
As I said, only people thinking rationally should be allowed to commit suicide.
*** While I totally agree with this, I worry that the arguement would be something along the lines of, "Anyone who wishes to commit suicide isn't thinking rationally, and thus can't." It's Catch 22.
Katisara:
you're ignoring the law of unintended consequences.
*** Isn't that what we have to do in order to discover new things? Albert Einstein didn't intend for his theories to be used in the creation of the hydrogen bomb; should he then not have formulated them? For that matter, Christ (I am certain) never intended for His life to be used as justification for (un)holy wars; would we better off had He not lived? There are always unintended consequences, and if we get caught up in worrying about them, we'll not accomplish anything.
Katisara:
quote:
I believe that people should have the right to choose the time and means of their own death.
Why is that?
*** Becos what right does anyone else have to choose it? Are we not masters of our own selves, if nothing else?
Katisara:
Should they be given the right to choose the time and means of their birth?
*** Well, if we could figure out how to pull off that trick, I'd be in favour of it.
Katisara:
For the sake of argument, let us assume physical resources are taken care of.
What about the mindspace? Can you imagine growing up where you're 14 and 90% of the population is 200 or above?
*** Yes. What's the problem?
Katisara:
Can you imagine the size of the republican party?
*** Well too, one would hope that once we're that sufficiently advanced, there won't be any more Republicans. (Or at least, that whatever party(s) we do have will be better than
all the ones we have now.)
Katisara:
Geez, can you imagine the painfully long stories over family dinner?
*** Okay, now this one is funny. Also a very good point.
Katisara:
What happened to those human ancestors who were free to 'live forever'?
*** Well you know, in the end, there can be only one ....
Tycho:
If you give people the freedom to make a choice, it's pretty much guaranteed that some of them will make what you feel to be the wrong choice. Give them an option of chocolate or vanilla, and some crazy bastard will inevitably pick vanilla. ;)
*** You meant "pick chocolate", right <grin>?
Gammaknight:
God. He is the author of life so it is his choice on when we are to go or not.
*** Well, unless and until He decides to make His opinon clear on the subject, I don't really see the logic of worrying about what He thinks.
Gammaknight:
God does make the rules, but He gives us the option to follow them or not. That's what makes Jehovah so great. Most of the others I have read about only give you the "my way or else" option. Jehovah, God, says "go my way, or go your way, I'll advance my plans with or without you". This sounds like railroading, but its not, He let's you go and accomplishes what he wants to do through someone/something else.
*** Okay, given that, it still doesn't matter what He thinks. If He's gonna do whatever He intends regardless of our actions, then we still don't need to worry about Him.
Katisara:
I have a distinct fear that, should we never clear out the old growth in regards to genes or ideas, we will have no space for fresh seedlings, and where there is no growth, there is rot.
*** One of the arguements made against immortality (not sure who made it, sorry) was that after a while depression may set in, which is what led to the whole suicide discussion. If we're going to let people be killing themselves off, won't that make new space?
Katisara:
I don't know that I have a 'right' to determine the universe around me. I don't think I have a right to choose when I die
*** It seems as if you're equating these, and if so, I don't see how.
Katisara:
My right to life doesn't mean I have a right to a long or happy life, but I have a right to not be killed, and a right to fight to hang on to that life.
*** So you're agreeing, then, that we have "a right to fight" for immortality? And do you not agree that if one has a right to life, one also has an equal right to death?
Katisara:
Should we proceed into such a dark unknown? This isn't splitting the atom, it's questioning the very nature of what drives us.
*** Yes, we should proceed, and precisely becos it
is "such a dark unknown". How are we ever to bring it out of the dark and make it known if we do not proceed? And while a fear of death (as I think you're saying) may be what drives some, it doesn't drive everyone.