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Which is my point. I'm politely saying there are some logical things that those without the Holy Spirit don't get.
They wouldn't be logical things; if you need special knowledge or faith to accept something, that's not a logical argument.
If a logical argument is true, it can be shown to be true no matter what you believe.
Needing to have "The Holy Spirit" in order to accept something as true really just translates to "you need to already accept this as true in order to accept it as true."
That is a sort of logic; Circular Logic, which isn't valid.
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There's an example I thought of, because I remember when I was "investigating" (I think that's the term they use) the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
One of the approved Dialogues involves asking you to take a test; pray to God and ask him to reveal the truth to you.
But is it a good test? Does it account for false positives, or does it accept a negative result as valid?
As Heath pointed out to me, it's really only a valid test for people who already believe in God and Jesus (the intended audience was non-Mormon Christians, after all, who have accepted certain axioms already; that God Exists, and that he answers Prayers).
Likewise, if you get a negative result, you must not have tried hard enough is the usual result. But even if you just examine the test procedure you realize that, in order to perform the test, you have to already have accepted that the outcome will be positive.
Because that's a circular reasoning fallacy, it's hardly a good test, and it doesn't provide good proof in a logical argument.
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:32, Mon 08 Oct 2012.