Overflowing chatter from the other OOC thread as it reached the 1000 post mark...

Munch gets the honour of the 1000th post, and I've kept his post as the last one in the old OOC thread and the first one (after this opening post) in this thread.
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:53, Thu 03 July 2014.

Also 1000 :P

Mine new one also has one of the epics in it. It is a mono-blue deck, though, so it will be interesting to play here.

Of course, having just moved the last four posts across - I've realised that because we've had a few posts deleted in the past, the ACTUAL number of posts in the old thread had just reached 1000 with Sugar's - so there are effectively TWO winners for getting 1000th post!

New mono-blue EDH is now built. Might make a few changes before I start and I doubt it will work half as well as I picture it doing, but it definitely has some fun interactions.

You must now call me SugarRush the Destroyer, the Annihilator, the End!

That cleared up my confusion. I saw 999 post numbers, and I thought it was my chance! But of course I was much too late. But I wasn't. Whoa.

In reply to sugarrushx6 (msg # 8):

And I shall be known as Lago The More Destroyerer, the More Annihilatorer, the More Ender ... THE FIRST!

In reply to LAGO (msg # 9):

And what am I, your underling? Your... prince?

I demand a rematch of MtG to decide the superior. If I wasn't going to do a game with Lord of the Pit.

It must then be decided by a hundred and one some.... of rock paper scissors. http://www.umop.com/rps101.htm

Best 10/19

We will need a witness to PM our weapons. He will then tell us who the superior is.
So I PM him rock, and you to him scissors, he would tell us in public that I won (naturally).

You game?

In reply to sugarrushx6 (msg # 10):

You challenge me to a game of rock, paper, scissors?!?  No I will not take part in your childish game!

I will wait and meet you on the field of battle where planeswalkers roam.

Pick your set of rules, if you like, and prepare yourself for battle.

OOC: I can't remember the last time I was challenged to a game of rock, paper, scissors.

Alright. No RPS :(

Here's the catch. Let's do this Tribal Wars style. It's a constructed variant I've just found out, and it's where 1/3 of your deck (that's 20 cards in a 60 card deck) must be all of the same "tribe". With the virtual deck file, you could filter out the "tribe" you like and construct a deck from that. Tribe meaning same type, like Elves, Goblins, Zombies, etc.

You game?

In reply to sugarrushx6 (msg # 12):

Haha, I thought I was following your lead with the RPS.

I can do that.  Let me make sure I understand.  As long as spells share a type or subtype and 1/3 of your deck is made up of that type / subtype then it's considered tribal?

Sounds like fun.

Wow, that's how MOST of my decks turn out. :p

I'd be game for this.  Although, requiring that 20/60 cards be creature cards could restrict some deck construction choices... still, I usually go about 24 creatures in the majority of my 60-card decks.

We still playing 'standard'?

You got that right. Let's declare our tribe beforehand though.
And we can still do RPS! A 2/3 game of RPS-101 to decide who goes first.

Though I still haven't decided a tribe. I'm leaning towards Zombie. They've got some good abilities, but they're really expensive.

And Lord of the Pit could possibly join in. If he wins over us he won't get the title, as he didn't post 1000th. He'll be... lieutenant to whoever is supreme (cough cough me cough cough)

We could still play standard next to that, though. I still want to test my GR deck, there's been a table set aside in my virtual deck file that's just been sitting there :(

EDIT: Looking through Bird, I saw this card http://magiccards.info/uhaa/en/4.html
Cardpecker
Flying
Gotcha Whenever an opponent touches the table with his or her hand, you may say "Gotcha" If you do, return Cardpecker from your graveyard to your hand.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:46, Sun 06 July 2014.

The MunchKING. Reigns supreme!



IIRC that sounds like an. Unglued or Unhinged card (can't remember which one used Gotcha mechanics), either way I'm pretty sure they aren't allowed.

Well for the popular races like Elves or Goblins there are non creature cards that still count as that tribe.

Yeah, it's illegal in all formats.
Even if they were allowed it would be pretty hard to accurately try to catch the other person touching the "table" on PbP.

He could like do a video call on Skype and we would just watch intently on when he touches his table, and then obnoxiously scream "Gotcha!".

EDIT: Searching though more "tribes" I've come across three that might be interesting if we split it between Lord of the Pit, LAGO, and I.
Thalakos (Blue) http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Thalakos
Soltari (White) http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Soltari
Dauthi (Black) http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Dauthi

Story is, they were Spirit beings trapped in "the Shadows of Rath". From what I gather, they all used to live on "Dominaria". They got trapped in the Shadows of Rath from a "planeshift abduction". The Soltari and the Dauthi were in a war with each other. Apparently, the Thalakos were neutral, yet they ended up in the war.



EDIT 2: It's more interesting because all three races have the keyword "Shadow". They can only be attacked by creature with Shadow. They are a perfect match for each other.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:15, Sun 06 July 2014.

Well, it also makes their "shadow" ability more or less useless, too...

Would ally be considered a tribe?

I love tribal games... though it is hard to find tribes that match elves and goblins for power...  Though having said that, if it is just in Standard format, they are significantly weakened and the others (e.g. merfolk, kithkin, soldiers, giants, zombies, birds, cats, spirits etc) become better...

It is interesting doing some of the more unusual ones...  I saw a very good snake game once...  Perhaps we should all develop our own standard legal tribal decks and do a tournament based on it... to see which is the master tribe!

Of course, who gets to play with which tribe might be a tricky negotiation!

BTW - I'm away from my laptop today, so might not get a chance to post in the various games I am in...

Standard Tribal would be interesting, though I'd probably prefer Modern or even Legacy Tribal, as that opens up a lot of good tribal cards. (Like the blocks that were focused on tribal decks: Onslaught and Lorwyn). As anyone who's played against me knows, I tend towards tribal most of the time anyways.

As to LAGO's question: ANY creature type can form a tribe. The thing you want to look for is synergy. You could build an Ooze tribal deck if you wanted, but there aren't many cards that care if a creature is an Ooze or not. But on the other extreme, Slivers are practically the Ur-tribal deck: They really want you to play as many of them as possible, and all of them work well together (to a point).

I've actually MADE an Ooze deck. The weird thing is it may not fit under Tribal rules, because (IIRC) it used a lot of Sorcerys or Enchantments to generate Oozes rather than Oozes as creature cards.



Oh Gawd, Slivers would be NASTY in Tribal warfare.

Fixed that for you.

Pretty much the top 5 tribals are (in terms of power):
Sliver
Ally
Elves
Dragons
Goblins

But my favorite is Kithkin.

Legacy is the one where most of the old cards are allowed right? I would play a tribal tournament like that...

Still looking for a tribe. Only skimmed through like half the creature types.

Angels caught my eye. They all got flying (naturally), and they got some nice abilities, though expensive.

I might Illusions if we are doing Legacy.

I've noticed Hydras depend on counters a bit much.

Leviathans are out of the picture. It's impossible to gain enough mana in time without everybody hitting at you to even get one of them on the battlefield.

Anybody who has been in the Magic scene have any suggestions?

I'm rather fond of Demons and Angels too.  There's some pretty nasty Soldier, Mercenary, and Rebel combos as well.  But, yeah, I'd say Slivers top the list by a country mile.  Might need to exclude them from the Tribal thing.

You really want to roll with them you need to go on a quest!!

http://magiccards.info/wwk/en/35.html

Thassa will help you out. :p



Walls. For the sheer Hilarity.


I actually just made a Juggernaut tribal deck. Now THERE's a type without many people or synergy bonuses.

I've gotten some mileage out of Myr decks in the past.

Nobody asked for it, but here is my generic formula for a 60-card deck for those new to deck-building:

• 24 creatures
      8x Converted Mana Cost 1-2
      8x Converted Mana Cost 3-4
      4x Converted Mana Cost 5-6
      4x Converted Mana Cost 7+
• 12 non-creature spells (artifacts, enchantments, instants, sorceries, etc) - these should generally include some creature removal, artifact removal, and enchantment removal... lands that do not produce mana also fall into this category
      4x Converted Mana Cost 1-2
      4x Converted Mana Cost 3-4
      4x Converted Mana Cost 5+
• 24 lands (mana-producing lands, that is)

Mono-colored is easiest, but if you're going with 2 colors, split the cards evenly.  Artifacts and Artifact creatures can be substituted for either color.

Creatures with special abilities should be used to supplement your non-creature spell effects.  (A Prodigal Sorcerer [http://magiccards.info/query?q...p;v=card&s=cname], for instance, could be counted as creature removal)

Now, obviously, this is a very simplistic design, but it gives you a good balance with little chance of getting mana-screwed.

Following this formula, a tribal deck with 20 tribe-specific creatures could also include 4 non-tribal creatures.

So, who's game for a Tribal game, which tribe will rule supreme! More importantly, who deserves the title of 1000th poster more, me, or LAGO?

From what I gather, Matthew, Lord of the Pit, LAGO and I are in the game.
We could do a 2v2 team Tribal game. Maybe each team will only get one tribe to choose from. Following this ruling, each player on the same team will not be able to have different tribes.

I might go for Skeleton for the cheap regens.

I've only been jabbering about them since you started talking about them. But fine don't invite me to your tournament! I'll hold a better tournament! With blackjack and hookers. On second thought forget the tournament.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BfQEkG8hB1E&t=7m30s

I'm down with that, Munch, since we can't garner an invite although we've both been adding to the discussion. (Not to mention, I've even mentioned my favorite tribal, although I might do Clerics, instead...kinda torn between the two).

And because of an obsession to figure out unanswered (and sometimes unasked) questions, I've been trying to figure out what the most prevalent and what minimum tribals are possible in Standard. So far, Human is in the lead at 159 cards in Standard that are Human, followed by Elementals(30) and Beasts(26), but I'm only to Kraken, so far.

Oh this is great!  Since Sugar is challenging my victory, if you could call it a challenge more like an annoyance really. :P  Why don't we do a game of Tribal Emperor?  I'll be an Emperor and he'll be an emperor.  It'll be a game of three on three.

We could simplify things by saying that all three members of a team move at the same time.

World effects could work like this: we'll both designate General 1 and 2 world effects from General 1 on either side will effect General 1 and the Emperor.  World Effects from General 2 from either side effect General 2 and Emperor.  Emperor world effect spells effect the entire board.

And to keep with the spirit of the game Generals can't lob direct damage spells at the Emperor unless they have defeated the opposing General.

Also lets say a mandatory minimum 60 card deck with 1/3 being tribal in nature.

What do you guys think?

Here is a link to the rules page I found http://archive.wizards.com/Mag...=magic/rules/emperor

I'd be interested... though I might need a day or three to build a deck.

I DID subtly invite you. All will be forgiven when I explain.

Look at all the capitals in my last post. STMMLAGOFIMLPLAGOIWTMFIS. Count all the letters. 24 capitals in total. We need to plug that variable into the famous StarCraft cheat, black sheep wall. Black sheep wall is really an equation that Blizzard secretly put into the game. Black + Sheep = Wall. Black + Sheep = 24! Now, we need to solve for black and sheep. But, we don't have enough information! Noooo... yes we do. Because I so subtly put "2v2 team" in the post. Black = 22! 22 + Sheep = 24... Sheep = 2! I so subtly invited red2wedge!

Now, let's look at the post number. Post #33 that was. What's this post number? 39! Let's plug it into the other famous equation, All your base are now belong to us. All + Your - Base * Are / Now = Belong + To + Us. We need to plug in the variables. A+Y-B*A/N = 33+39+Us. Us was 4 players originally, before the subtle invite. A+Y-B*A/N = 33+39+4. A+Y-B*A/N = 76! Now, simple maths, A = A. Let's solve for A first. The first card in MtG on the VD file is Acidic Dagger. It's CMC is 4. Wow! Using a card game to solve our homework! 4+Y-B*4/N = 76. How about Y? We just used the VD file, so we can't use it again. Let's use the first thing to pops into mind when we think Y. Guess it? Rexicoricophalvitorous. That's right! No Y in sight, always bothers me. So, 22 letters that planet has. 22/5.5 = 4! Where did 5.5 come from? The number of letters that it didn't have that bothered me. 4+4-B*4/N = 76. Let's solve it! Wait, we don't have to. 4 has been repeated thrice. Whoa. The answer is 4. 4 is the number of letters in KING! I so subtly invited The MunchKING!

Forget MunchKING's tourney.
Our tournament doesn't just have blackjack and hookers, we've got the last Dalek alive, caged for your viewing entertainment. Just don't touch it.

EDIT: I think Emperor would be fun. Especially since you specifically and undeniably  named me emperor.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:12, Mon 07 July 2014.

I might be up for it. I wouldn't even need to make a new deck for it... I'd just have to consider which of my decks I'd want to use.

Yeah.... I gravitate rather naturally towards tribal decks.

Nominated... you were nominated for emperor... perhaps one or more of the rest of us would like to throw our proverbial (or literal, as the case may be) hats into the ring...

LOL - entertaining!

Re Tribal.  My argument for Standard is that if you incorporate legacy, then elves and goblins in particular suddenly become much more powerful, but most of those other more obscure tribes don't leap in power in quite the same way...

With regards to me playing, I might be hard pushed... I started a new job last week - a 200 mile round trip commute!  I'm intending to stay over down there three nights a week - when I do, I'll have plenty of time to post, plus usually at the weekend (not this past one unfortunately though) - but the other days - Mondays and Fridays in particular, are particularly tight for time...

Holy frijoles! 200 miles!  Even round trip, that's pretty rough... I hope it's your dream job.  Yeah, standard vs. legacy... there's some really nasty stuff in legacy.  The new tribes would have a really tough time competing.

Tribal Emperor??

Now all we need is a thing-on-a-pole match and it will be a real Vince Russo Special.



Ah yes, the King of Munch and Emperor of So Asbena would indeed suggest he would be an excellent Emperor! Then again his vast combat skills would make him invaluable as a guard as well.




Well if we're already talking of Banning Slivers, you could ban the next three or so most populace tribes if you wanted to force people to chose obscure tribes.

if you still need players for this tribal emporer i'm game (emporer is 6 right). Also if you wanted to limit the power level why not go for modern. Whilst elves and goblins are still quite strong unless someone goes for combo elves (thus defeating the purpoe of doing this) then all the truly broken power cads are gone. elves and Goblins still fair well under modern but other options such as slivers (with most of the broken slivers not playable) allies, scarecrows, artifact creatures, beasts, kithkin, merfolk e.t.c still exist.

i would say ban merfolk though since they are a tier 1 deck, given they they have 3 2 cost lords.

What was Modern again?

Anything printed with the modern card set up. Which means roughly anything printed from the original Mirrodin block onwards.

Which cuts out my Legacy Zombie deck. That's my original deck, albeit with various updates as they changed old card types over time (Zombie Master now being a Zombie).

Looking it up, yeah a few of my cards don't explicitly say they're legal for Modern in magiccards.info which I assume means they aren't.

Unfortunately with such a small Tribe, the fact that two are illegal would mean I'd have to scrap the deck and make a different tribe.

For a more in depth explanation of the Modern Format: http://magic.wizards.com/en/ga...eplay/formats/modern

Check what set(s) those two cards were printed in. If any printings were in any of the sets listed there, then they are indeed modern legal. Sometimes, I run across cards with incorrect legality on the spreadsheet - usually those in newest set since the database Matt uses apparently doesn't give them any legality for a long time. But other times bugs occur, and the data can be off. I know that currently the flavor text can bug out if the card has none.

So, from what I understand, this is how the game would roll out.

Players:
Team 4v4 (sugarrushx6, LAGO, Lord of the Pit, Matthew, red2wedge, The MunchKING, Jsalt, PushBarToOpen)

---

Format:
Modern http://magic.wizards.com/en/ga...eplay/formats/modern

---

Variants:
Tribal Wars http://archive.wizards.com/Mag...x=magic/rules/tribal
Emperor http://archive.wizards.com/Mag...=magic/rules/emperor

---

Bans:
Tribes Banned

• Sliver
• Merfolk

---

All we've got to figure out now are the teams.
I think it already has been decided that LAGO and I would be on opposite teams.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:15, Mon 07 July 2014.

Your emperor link didn't work for me, but this one did: http://archive.wizards.com/Mag...=magic/rules/emperor

In reply to Lord of the Pit (msg # 51):

Fixed.

Oh, and what prompted the Merfolk ban?

And how do we want to handle 4 players?

• Two generals on, say the left of the emperor and one general on the right?  (Or vice versa.)
• Two emperors per team?  (Both have to be eliminated for the other team to win? ... Maybe the emperors are 2-headed giants?  Yikes!  Lol, although in the emperor games we used to play, we always started the emperor off with more life... either 30 or 40...)
• An emperor and an empress?  Maybe the empress is just like the generals, except that she ignores range restrictions (much like the queen in chess has near unrestricted movement)... or has her ranges increased by 1 player.
• Find a 9th player and have a 3-way emperor game!  (We did this a few times, too... very fun.)

merfolk in modern and to a lesser extent legacy are a tier 1 pro tour tornement deck. this is because they are capable of winning easily on turn 5.

they have 2 2mana lords that give islandwalk. Blue can turn lands into islands. and a 3 mana lord that taps/untaps things whenever a merfolk enters.

basicly they are cheap build up fast and being in blue have good controll options.

and given a lot of good merfolk cost 2 mana Aethervial nets you a free merfolk per turn. they are very very strong.

Let's do a vote!
I vote Emperor and Empress. The layout would then become



I say Empresses are like what you said. In order to accommodate the 4th player, there is like a reserve spot behind the Emperor. The generals may then switch with that reserve spot. Those in the reserve spot are unable to attack, though they can still summon creatures and move creatures to ally territories. When players switch positions, they bring their deck with them, but the creatures summoned remains the same. So a good strategy with this layout would be to set some life giving artifact in the reserve spot. Only generals and the empress may switch, and when you switch, that ends your turn.
Maybe.

I'm not a big fan of the reserve spot.  I say it should be more like chess...


Or put the Empress to the right of the Emperor...

The thing about emperor is that there are the guards who can ony attack the other teams' guard that is next to them right?

So as we're not trying to physically seat people why not make three guards like



Where the middle guard can only attack straight?

Or am I missing some factor here that makes that not work?

Because of the 'range' on spells, that would be confusing.  Spells and effects have a 'reach' of 2 players (left or right), so in this formation...


Player A can affect players B, C, 1, and 2 (and creatures in their battlefields) with spells and effects (Lightning Bolt, Gloom, Royal Assassin, Rod of Ruin, etc etc)

You also have a clear order of play:  Clockwise.

In your set-up, how would you handle ranges and order of play?  Seems a bit confusing.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:26, Mon 07 July 2014.

In reply to Lord of the Pit (msg # 58):

Clockwise and then reserve. Reserves cannot attack until switched.

The reserve thing is a deal-breaker for me.  I don't like it... sorry.

In reply to Lord of the Pit (msg # 60):

Alright. If you don't like it, that's fine.
Now we're back to the problem of a 4v4. I think IMO that two emperors would be a bit much, as in it ruins the point of the generals.

I don't understand how it 'ruins' the point of the generals.  They're intended to be a buffer between the emperor and the other team... and still would be.  However, I'm not married to the idea of two emperors... not by a long shot.  It's just something I threw out there.

My problem with the "reserve" player is that, one, it adds another mechanic that has not been fleshed out.  You say the "reserve" player can't attack... I assume that just means with creatures?  He can still use spells and effects?  If not... then the reserve player is going to be pretty bored.  If he can use spells and effects, then it behooves the reserve player to build a deck built more around those mechanics rather than creatures.  Not necessarily a bad thing I guess.  But when and how does the "swapping" take place?  On the "reserve" player's turn?  On the "active" player's turn with whom he's swapping?  Does it count as his entire action for the turn?  As his attack?  Maybe it can be done anytime a sorcery could be played, but only once per turn?  Maybe as often as you like?  Maybe when an instant could be played?

The other is order of turns...


Here we know that if we start with player D, then 4 is next, then 3, 2, 1, A , B, C, and back to D.


What about here?  Where does player 4's turn come in on team 2?  First?  Last?  After player 3?  After player 2?  Let's say he goes after player 2... And on his turn he swaps places with player 1...


Well, the spot formerly occupied by player 1 (now occupied by player 4) would be next to go... does player 4 go again?  Do we jump back to player 1 then skip player 4 for this turn?

There are just too many complications... plus the fact that, as I said, limiting one player's ability to interact makes the game more boring for that player.  In this format, it can take a while to go all the way "around the table" and if you can't do anything on your turn, that can mean a lot of downtime.

Plus, we have to keep track of changing player positions, which could get confusing.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:20, Mon 07 July 2014.

In reply to Lord of the Pit (msg # 62):

Let's take the reserve thing, crumple it up, burn it in a fire, take the ashes, pour into a paper pouch, burn the pouch, take the ashes into an envelope, walk to a volcano, throw it in, drain out the volcano, and stomp on the ashes.

I haven't quite fleshed it out, and if we just dwell on this reserve thing I made, then we'll never get to the game :(
The reserve thing was just thought on the fly.

I'm just going to point out that we could keep track using html tables?

Let's take a vote to solve this 4v4 problem once and for all. I vote for three generals, one emperor.




I also can't really explain why I don't like the idea of two emperors. Too much to protect? I don't know.

Yes, using tables (which I would have suggested if we did go that route) would be a necessity, I think... but, it would still be one more thing to keep up with.  You're already having to track the position, health, and battlefield (and, depending on your deck, graveyard and hand) of 7 other players in addition to your own stuff.  Now you have to keep up with who has moved and to where.  (And who might choose to move and to where.)

I'm not saying it's a bad idea... just, as you say, it needs to be more fully fleshed out before we consider using it, and there's a LOT to flesh out.

I'll go along with 3 generals, 1 emperor... though we still have to figure out the 'seating' arrangement for turn order.  If we can figure out how the turn order should go and reach would work, I have no problem with the 3 generals being "in front" of the emperor.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:50, Mon 07 July 2014.

I kinda like the 2 emperors idea, as at least 3 players have to be eliminated for a team to lose, although I wouldn't mind doing 3G/1E, depending on how we're allowing attacks to be made.

Maybe something like...


for counting reach...

... and when a general dies, the middle general (if he wasn't the one that died first) would move over to take the place of the dead general and the emperor would take the middle general's spot?  (again with the moving... lol)

Still not sure about turn order... probably have the emperor go after the middle general?

No, only 1 person has to be eliminated for a team to lose:  the emperor.  Since at least one general can reach him with spells and effects (depending on seating... in 3v3 both generals can reach him with spells and effects), it's possible for him to be taken out without killing the intervening generals.  It's the reason we used to start the emp out with more life, since two generals using direct damage decks could, potentially take him out too quickly.  If we go with the emp being 'behind' 3 generals, then that changes the dynamic.

Why not just find another dude and make it a Threeway?

In reply to The MunchKING (msg # 68):

Possibly Wolfie.

EDIT:

From what I gather, we need odd numbers on each team. If we do a 3v5, with veterans on one side and other on the other, we solved one little problem.
This solution creates more problems though.

For example, the range of each member.
With
1 2 3 4 5
  1 2 3
Then bottom team 2 is unable to reach the outer generals, and the outer generals is only able to reach bottom 1 and 3.

EDIT 2: With Lord of the Pit's idea about how players move in to fill the other dead ally's spot, how about when one of the outer generals die? I assume that the middle general will fill up that spot, and then the emperor moves into the middle, because we can't have the emperor on one of the outer spots. Creates unevenness.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:08, Mon 07 July 2014.

By most Emperor rules that I've seen, at least one General must be eliminated to attack the Emperor, so one General, and if we were doing it the dual Emperor/Emperess, with both of them having to be eliminated, that means that, indeed, 3 people would have to be out for a team to lose.

I just read the rules, and while creatures can only attack the players directly adjacent to you, it says spells and such have a range of 2 players.

While less important in a tribal game, some good old direct damage could lead to general-circumventing Emperoricide.

Let me restate this, slightly modified for 8 players.

4 on 4 with one Emperor per team and 3 Generals.  So lay out would go like this:

G1  E1  G2  G3
G4  E2  G5  G6

Each player has 20 life.

Each team will move at the same time.  With the exception that the Emperor has the             option to have his turn resolve before his team, at the same time as his team, or   after his team.  The Emperor has to declare this before his team moves.

No communication, except for what was mentioned above.

The Emperor can effect the entire board state.  Generals effect the opposing General and either one spot to the left or right.  The board state wraps.  So, G4 could effect G4, G1, G3, G6 or G4, G1, E1, E2.

An Emperor can reposition a general to protect his flank.  In our above example if G4 dies E2 can move G6 to G4's previous slot.  However, all of G6's creatures would suffer summoning sickness, unless they had haste.  You could also move G5, but this would expose E2 to a direct assault from G2.  You can only move 1 General per turn and only to an empty slot.

Emperors can move one creature per turn to any General on his team.  Provided the Emperor has a creature that does not have summoning sickness.  For example If E1 played a Llanowar Elves http://magiccards.info/m12/en/182.html and a Raging Goblin http://magiccards.info/m10/en/153.html on the same turn he could send the Raging goblin to a General that turn and it could attack/tap, but he would have to wait a turn to send Llanowar Elves and once it was sent to the general it would suffer summoning sickness again.

Generals cannot launch direct assaults (direct damage spells/ mill effects) at an Emperor unless the General has exposed the Emperor's flank.  You can, however, target his permanents.

In the above example G3 must first defeat G6 and then either G5 or G4 before they can assault the Emperor.  Remember the battlefield wraps.

Since we are doing a tribal variant deck minimum is 60 cards with at least 1/3 being tribal in nature.

Lastly, Emperors can attack Emperors from the start if they so choose.

phew!  I think that covers everything.  What do you guys think?
This message was last edited by the player at 02:02, Tue 08 July 2014.

Well as I said, I'm using the website. but yes.

Otarian Juggernaut appeared in Odyssey
http://magiccards.info/od/en/305.html

and the Keldan Battlewagon appeared only in Prophecy.

http://magiccards.info/pr/en/139.html

So my "Juggernaut" tribe will have to be shelved.

So what should my next deck be?

22:16, Today: The MunchKING rolled 4 using 1d20. Which Tribe should I play?

A-B-C-D!!

It shall be Dragons!! Or Druids!! Or Dwarves? Demons are always good... Well in a power sense anyway. Morality they are usually quite evil. Donkeys!! I could break out all my Unglued and Unhinged cards that involve me making an "ass" out my deck!! Drakes?? Kinda wussy compared with Dragons...

Oooooooh Djinn!! (They've probably been a while though, not sure how many of them would be Modern Legal...) Dryad! Would never have thought of them... "Drone"? Well there can't be many of THEM hanging around.

Dauthi... Not exactly "Modern" but they had some power.

Yes, one general has to be removed for the emperor to be attacked by creatures... but spells can hit him before that.



In 3v3, two generals with direct damage spells (lightning bolts, fireballs, etc) can start hitting the emperor immediately with those spells as they have a range of two players.  This also applies to abilities like Rod of Ruin or Prodigal Sorcerer.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:39, Tue 08 July 2014.

In reply to LAGO (msg # 72):

Allowing emperors to go at each other to start with changing the entire dynamic of emperor... it's really not the same game then.  If everyone wants to try this variant, then I'm okay with it... but let's not call it 'emperor'... it needs some variation in the name.

The "range of 2" was one of the defining points of emperor, so that you had to plow through the generals first.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:43, Tue 08 July 2014.

Might be an interesting format to play. I've not had much experience with Emperor before.

How many people do we have showing interest in this?

I'd want to play normal mode before we go around mucking with alternate varients we're making up.

Hmm, that is a bit interesting, as the local variant of Emperor (and I thought it was as close to the variant rule set as slight modifications would allow) puts different ranges for generals and emperors. The Generals in the local variant have a range of 1 for everything, and the Emperors have a range of 2.

And just looked in the official rules:

809. Emperor Variant
809.1. The Emperor variant involves two or more teams of three players each.
809.2. Each team sits together on one side of the table. Each team decides the order in which it’s seated. Each team has one emperor, who sits in the middle of the team. The remaining players on the team are generals whose job is to protect the emperor.
809.3. The Emperor variant uses the following default options.
809.3a The range of influence is limited to 2 for emperors and 1 for generals. See rule 801, “Limited Range of Influence Option.”
809.3b Emperor games use the deploy creatures option...

.



So... basically what I said in the first place.

In reply to red2wedge (msg # 78):

Do you have a link for those official rules?  The ones we've been looking at are from WoTC's site (http://archive.wizards.com/Mag...=magic/rules/emperor)

http://media.wizards.com/image...mpRules_20140601.pdf

http://archive.wizards.com/Mag...e.aspx?x=magic/rules
This message was last edited by the player at 04:43, Tue 08 July 2014.

Thanks, I'll check 'em out!

• 809.6. The Emperor variant can also be played with any number of equally sized teams. If the teams have more than three players, the range of influence of each player should be adjusted.
• 809.6a Each general’s range of influence should be the minimum number that allows one general from an opposing team to begin the game within his or her range of influence. Each emperor’s range of influence should be the minimum number that allows two generals from opposing teams to begin the game within his or her range of influence. Players should be seated such that no emperor begins the game within the range of influence of another emperor.
  
  • Example: In an Emperor game between two teams of four players each, the player configuration (either clockwise or counterclockwise around the table) should be: Team A general 1, Team A emperor, Team A general 2, Team A general 3, Team B general 1, Team B emperor, Team B general 2, Team B general 3. Each emperor has range of influence 3. Each general 2 has range of influence 2. Each general 1 and general 3 has range of influence 1.
• 809.7. In the Emperor variant, a team’s resources (cards in hand, mana, and so on) are not shared. Teammates may review each other’s hands and discuss strategies at any time. Teammates can’t manipulate each other’s cards or permanents.

Okay, that's different from the other WoTC page (and different from the variant that my group always played), but it does specifically list an example for 4v4, so I have no problem with that.  So long as everyone is knows and agrees to all the rules.

EDIT - To avoid confusion, we could call the extra general (with the extra reach) a "General" and the other generals "Lieutenants" maybe?
This message was last edited by the player at 04:57, Tue 08 July 2014.

I personally like the setup that you suggested in message #66, and we can keep the range of influence at 1 for generals (straight across), and 2 for emperors. At least for the variant with 1 Emperor and 3 Generals.

A range of 1 is not "straight across"... it's one player to your left and 1 player to your right.

OK victory is when emporer is out all players at 20 life

emporer rangeis 3 general range is 2 Pawn range is 1


Seating is P1 G1 E1 G2   Opposing team      P1 G3 E2 G4


this way no one can attack the emporer until at east one general is dead. no one can attack the emporer until at least one general is dead. and a choise is made up between going the long or short way.

pawns get stuffed a little but because of that might get ignored

I am back and will be caught back up by today

In reply to Crmnlst (msg # 87):

When you get caught up, and if you get interested in our Emperor Tribal game, then feel free to join us. Then, we can scrap out 4v4 problem and go for a 3v3v3!

I too have never played Emperor variant before...  but I am one of the interested people...  I'd like to stick if possible to the rules quoted by Lord of the Pit earlier:


Using the example quoted, I would suggest that we use something like the table below to make it really clear who is who, who can affect who, and who's turn it is next:  (Names inserted just as examples and not an indication of what the order/teams should actually be!)

Hm, according to the rule page I looked at, the turn order (in that example) would be either Red>Push>LotP>LAGO>Sugar>Matt>Munch>Jsalt or Sugar>Matt>Munch>Jsalt>Red>Push>LotP>LAGO.

Start with the leftmost General of one of the Emporers (from their point of view, so Red is Munch's leftmost general and Sugar is LAGO's leftmost) then proceed clockwise. Yes, it means that the team that goes first only gets one turn, and then all the others... I suppose I wouldn't mind if that was changed in one of the other pages rules. I suppose the first linked page was much older, since it talked about playing with ante, which has been banned by WotC for being technically illegal in many states (fitting a definition of gambling).

Good work... except that you can only attack (which refers specifically to using creatures in combat) enemy players adjacent to you.  (Or, if you move your creatures into a teammate's battlefield, you can attack enemy players adjacent to that teammate.)  The range of spells and effects is what needs to be established (range of 1, 2, or 3) and does not apply strictly to negative spells and effects (damage, destruction, curses, etc) but also to beneficial effects... you can't cast a gain-life spell on a teammate that is out of your range of influence either.  To that effect:


Also, the team that goes first only gets ONE player to go first... so the furthest general to the emperor's left.  If Team A goes first, then it's 3A, if Team B goes first then it's 3B... then proceed clockwise.  Generally (pun intended) it is a disadvantage to go first, so whoever 'wins the toss' usually lets the other team go first.  (Although I think that the General who goes first does get an initial draw, unlike in a duel.)
This message was last edited by the player at 00:40, Wed 09 July 2014.

I've edited your code.  No need for the 4.3 or the extra two lines.  Just insert some \n to give you extra spacing...  :-)

Of course, the biggest hindrance to our playing this is whether or not we can reliably have the game without losing a few players to real life issues...

SO, perhaps we ought to have a roll-call to see who is definitely up for this, and prepared to be committed to making sure that they don't leave their fellow team-mates hanging?

And perhaps when everyone speaks up, they should also roll a d100 to see WHO they get to play with and the order...  As per Jsalt's post above re the order of play,   In other words, the highest roll represents General 3A, the next highest roll represents General 1B, then Emperor B, and so on around the virtual table.  If two or more people roll the same, then they get to re-roll, though JUST to determine the relative order for those people.

SO - to kick the ball off:
Position/Order roll:
22:05, Today: Matthew rolled 33 using 1d100. Emperor Game - what position/order for me?

Of course, the other thing we need to decide is what tribes everyone plays.  I suggest once we've determine the team roles/order, then we can discuss what tribes makes most sense - the tribe chosen by an Emperor may well be different from that chosen by a General!  And those chosen by a team mate may well be different depending on what the order of play you fall in!  So discussion on this is probably important, and may well take place outside of this forum in PMs so that team tactics can be discussed...

17:17, Today: Jsalt rolled 90 using 1d100. Emperor Order.

Looks like I might end up as the 'winner', eh?

I have a good idea of which of my decks to use. Should be fun.

Looking forward to it!
18:16, Today: sugarrushx6 rolled 76 using 1d100. The Order of the Empire.

Just to double check - the "Generals" aren't supposed to be Commander decks are they?

No, just regular 60-card Modern Tribal. My new Venser EDH is almost tribal for Wizards and it's looking like a fun deck.

red2wedge rolled 34 using 1d100 ((34)). Emperor

Jeesh, mashing up two formats (Tribal Wars and Emperor) is enough! Adding Commander to that mix as well.... That would be crazy (and fun)! But also, require more preparation on my part.

Wait 60 is a minimum right? Not an absolute?

Yep, mine will probably be a touch over.

Add a touch of Two-Headed Giant. Add milk. Mix. Bake.
This message was last updated by the player at 23:32, Tue 08 July 2014.

So how are we determining who is on what team?

And by that, I mean, are we putting all the high rolls on one team or alternating teams from highest to lowest? (Of course, we could let sugar and LAGO be the Emperors and let them choose players from the list one at a time, since this originated from their 1000th post.)

I suggest that the top 4 rollers comprise one team, and the bottom 4 rollers are the other team, with their relative rolls determining position on that team.

19:31, Today: Lord of the Pit rolled 34 using 1d100. Tribal Emperor.
          19:32, Today: Lord of the Pit rolled 9 using 1d100. Roll-off with red2wedge.

In reply to Lord of the Pit (msg # 105):

Are we doing something where the whole team will be doing the same tribe?
If we are, that might be a little boring, IMO.

Oh heavens no!  I would think not.

20:38, Today: The MunchKING rolled 15 using 1d100. The MunchKING's role in this Empire!


Dagnabbit.

I don't think it should determine relative position, I think the teams should talk that out and strategically place people according to how they see their synergy working best. I know that my deck will fall flat in the furthest general (pawn?) position, but would probably be very effective (strategically) in the position between that and the emperor.

I'm okay with that too...

It wouldn't be too bad in the emperor position, either, but I don't want to hog that spot.

23:28, Today: LAGO rolled 83 using 1d100. Emperor Roll.

We haven't yet discussed HOW we should determine each of us should choose our tribes...  I'm not sure you should assume that you'll automatically be able to play your desired tribe.  What happens if someone else wants to play that tribe as well?  My assumption is that each of us chooses a different tribe so we have no replication of tribe...  That will mean that some people will not get to play the tribe they desire most...  in fact, that is almost guaranteed.  And that is why I've not yet chosen my preferred tribes, since they might vary dependent upon the role/position I end up in.

My initial thought on how we should choose our tribes (ONCE our positions in the game are known) is that we should perhaps secretly choose (via Private message to Jeff as an independent witness), our preferred choices of tribe...  Note I said choices.  If we do this together with some more D100 dice rolls to arbitrate between people who have the same choice, then it should be fair...

To explain more thoroughly what I mean, here is an example...  I would send my PM to Jeff first - to make sure my choices aren't influenced by your choices (as I am a co-DM here I get to see all PMs) - then the rest of you chip in.  Once everyone has sent their PMs, I reveal the lists that everyone has sent and we work out who gets what, with those duplicate choices being arbitrated by the dice rolls.

EG:  (ignore the names and contents - they are just made up)


SO - First we look at first choices.  If nobody else has chosen the same first choice, then that person gets to keep it.
    I get to keep Ape, Push gets to keep Goblin and Munch gets to keep Hydra.
    Red, LotP and LAGO have each chosen Elf and Sugar and Jsalt have each chosen Angel.
    As LAGO has the highest roll amongst the Elves, he gets to keep Elf.  Sugar has the highest roll for the Angels, so gets to keep Angel.

Now we have to look at second choices.
Red's second choice is the same as Push's first choice, so he gets pushed to his third choice - Bird.
Similarly, LotP's second choice has already been taken, so he has to move to his third choice - Dragon.
Similarly, Jsalt has chosen Elf as his second choice, which has already been taken as someone else's first choice, so he is pushed to his third choice of Druid.

My example isn't great as the choices of tribe are unlikely to be similar to how we actually choose, and we could probably leave the actual dice rolling till after we've all made our secret priority lists...
This message was lightly edited by the GM at 06:55, Wed 09 July 2014.

How about this:

We each roll d100.  Starting with the highest roller and working down we choose a tribe.

If we want to keep it (relatively) secret then we could get one person to keep track of our choices and if someone repeats a choice previously made you have to choose again until you pick something that hasn't already been chosen.

In reply to Lord of the Pit (msg # 114):

OK then

my roll to go first


19:57, Today: PushBarToOpen rolled 22 using 1d100. Tribsl emporer.


BTW My flight to the Uk is due on sunday so i will be out of commision for a while

in addition typhoon Neoguri is due to hit in the next couple of days so that mught cause some disrution

If we go that route, then we should definitely alternate teams from highest to lowest (or roll a second time), because otherwise, the team with the high rolls would have their choice of tribes, where the other team is likely using the weaker tribes or second/third choices. Luckily, I can change mine to 3 different tribes and have almost the same deck, just have to change out a few cards and a fourth only takes about half the cards...I'd just have to toss in some much more aggressive cards.

I see no need for secracy, knowing what tribe i am playing will not helop you beat me as i will be playing things that arn;t tribal to help protect my tribal cards

i think we should each list our top 3 tribes and we are garenteed one of them.

we go by 1st choice 2nd choice 3rd choice. with 1st being what is counted off first. but the lower ones in the list take priority.

for example

player 1    PLayer 2  Player 3   Player 4
Sliver      Elves     Sliver     Treefolk
Treefolk    Minotaur  Elves      Minotaur
Allies      Zombies   Vampires   Elves


Then it woulod work through elimination
1st Elimination

Player Choices
1 - Sliver
2 - Elves
3 - Sliver
4 - Treefolk

PLayer's 1 and 3 both have slivers so neither player gets them and they move down a level. no other player has conflicts


2nd Elimination

1 - Treefolk
2 - Minotaur
3 - Elves
4 - Treefolk

PLayer 1 and 4 have conflict. PLayer 1 has priority as it is seccond choice. Player 4 moves down

3rd Elimination

1 - Treefolk
2 - Minotaur
3 - Elves
4 - Minotaur

2 and 4 have conflict neither has priority both are denied and move down

4th Elimination

1 - Treefolk
2 - Minotaur
3 - Elves
4 - Elves

3 and 4 have conflict 4 has priority and player 3 moves down

1 - Treefolk
2 - Minotaur
3 - Vampire
4 - Elves

No conflict so these are final tribes.

this works quite well and everyone gets to play aa tribe that they want to play. this example was created with everyone waqnting to play the same tribes in actuality i think that this will be very different.

and i don't mind being open that my choices would be

1) Faeries
2) Rogues
3) Illusions

So then why did 2 go down to "Minotaur" by next turn?




ANd then here, he didn't move down again!!

2 is a cheater! :p



If everyone does we may need more than top three as there are 8 players to conflict with.



I'm still coming up with back ups for my deck. (and maybe more reasonable ones)

Hello all. I'm new to the scene here so i need to play someone who can help me understand the Exel document while playing a game. I currently only have an EDH deck constructed but will probably construct my staple 60 some odd card deck from high school when i get home tonight.

Those ideas work, but simply giving us an order of priority and letting people choose in that order is a lot simpler.

98 Lord of the Pit - I choose you Pikachu tribe!
96 red2wedge - aw dang, I wanted the Pikachu tribe, guess I'll go with lawnchairs.
92 PushBarToOpen - darn, my top 2 choices gone.  Okay I pick ding-bats.
etc.

EDIT - as for secrecy not being helpful... I'm not sure about Modern, but there are a number of 'race hate' cards out there in some sets...  (for example: Tivadar's Crusade http://magiccards.info/dk/en/91.html)
This message was last edited by the player at 15:52, Wed 09 July 2014.

there are not many race hate cards in modern the closest is stuff like destroy taget non elf or destroy target non vampire non werewolf non zombie.

they reallystopped printing cards that only hose one type of deck after around arabian nights.

otherwise you would just run city in a bottle and make sure people could never play mountains.

there are some individial hate cards such as a creature that destrys one goblin when it enteres the battlefield. however there are sually better cards to run. I mean the same colour has path to exile.

Welcome! The Excel document is easier than it seems. It seemed complicated to me, but looks can deceive.

For the Emperor game thing, I like Matthew's idea best. There's no flaws I can see, and it's quick, so we can get to the game quicker.

th flaw in matthew's plan as far as i can see is that if you don;t get your first choice you are more likley to get your 3rd or 4th choice than your seccond.

my method worked a slimilar way but more people are more likley to get there seccond choice.

it basically a stats excersise

matthews way 80% first choice 10% 5% 2nd choice 3rd choice 5% 4th choice

my way

40% first choice
40% seccond choice
20% third choice.

or at least thats how i figure it to be. mind you i'm not to bothered about duplication either.

I still don't see the advantage to complicating it (and it's certainly not any faster), but I'll go along with whatever...

My way:

• First choice:  if you're first to pick, it's 100%, if you're not first to pick and no one else has picked it, still 100%
• Second choice:  again, if you're highest on the list it's 100%, if you're not highest on the list and no one else has taken it, still 100%
• Etc...

It's just like a draft...  As a consolation for not getting to pick first (or second, or third, etc.) you get to know what the people before you picked, which might (or might not) influence your choice.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:47, Wed 09 July 2014.

Well, looking through my archived decks, I have a handful of Modern and Tribal War legal decks. Sadly, my Myr deck is NOT Tribal War legal, because it has too few Myr! (Too many artifacts that mass produce Myr tokens instead).

I'll go with whichever way we choose to ensure unique tribes, But suggest we pick a way, so we can get to it. :D

Maybe instead of an separate roll, opposite of the play order? As in whoever goes first picks last and whoever will go last can pick first?

*18:36, Today: red2wedge rolled 89 using 1d100. reroll against LOTP.
*06:57, Today: PushBarToOpen rolled 22 using 1d100. Tribsl emporer.
*23:28, Yesterday: LAGO rolled 83 using 1d100. Emperor Roll.
*21:38, Yesterday: The MunchKING rolled 15 using 1d100. The MunchKING's role in this Empire!
*20:32, Yesterday: Lord of the Pit rolled 9 using 1d100. Roll-off with red2wedge.
*20:31, Yesterday: Lord of the Pit rolled 34 using 1d100. Tribal Emperor.
*18:47, Yesterday: red2wedge rolled 34 using 1d100. Emperor.
*18:16, Yesterday: sugarrushx6 rolled 76 using 1d100. The Order of the Empire.
*17:17, Yesterday: Jsalt rolled 90 using 1d100. Emperor Order.
*17:05, Yesterday: Matthew rolled 33 using 1d100. Emperor Game - what position/order for me?

So, teams as such? How about we alternate teams choosing tribes, so Jsalt names his tribe, then LOTP, Lago, Matthew, Sugar, Push, Me and then Munch?

Jsalt (90)
LAGO  (83)
Sugar (76)
Red   (34/89)

LOTP  (34/9)
Matthew(33)
Push  (22)
Munch (15)

Having just caught up with the discussion - I agree, my method of choosing tribes was way too complicated.  Instead, we think we should all roll another d100 to see what order we should choose in - with the highest person going first, then the highest person on the opposite team, and then continuing down the order.

SO - I'm in Team B it seems - and I'll roll my d100 for making my choice...

23:57, Today: Matthew rolled 71 using 1d100. Emperor Game - for tribe choice.

red2wedge rolled 36 using 1d100 ((36)).

...

Fine!

18:04, Today: The MunchKING rolled 87 using 1d100. None shall Stand Against the Choice of The MunchKING!

Hi RFLHOG3 (or can I use Hog for short? :-),

Your message probably got missed in all the discussion about the forthcoming 8 player Emperor game, but hopefully someone will take you on soon...  I'd do it myself, but I confess I'm probably a bit over committed as it is...

So does that mean it's?



Which would be following the ORDER listed to fill out the slots, or is it


Which would be what it would be for Jsalt to START the match and then the match order to follow the numbers rolled.

The first one would mean Red or I would start, but the teams would be divided up between high and low rollers as you showed. The second would change up the teams, but would make the turn order follow the rolls.

I had originally proposed that we go for option B - i.e. the rolls determining the order of play, which in turn then defines the teams...  however someone subsequently suggested that the exact roles within the teams be then determined by agreement of those in each team, based on their tribal choice and deck builds...

SO, I'm happy to keep the team allocation as summarised by Jsalt:
Team A
Jsalt (90)
LAGO  (83)
Sugar (76)
Red   (34/89)

Team B
LOTP  (34/9)
Matthew(33)
Push  (22)
Munch (15)

And then once we've got the tribe choices sorted out, we can agree within our teams what roles we want to play, and then flip a coin to see which team goes first - with the General 3 on the winning team going first before play passes to the other team...

BTW - I've opened up a new table for the Emperor game... we can move the discussion there now and stop cluttering up this thread...

So I just noticed Sugarrush's character bio.... I'm wondering if I should take that personally or not. Granted, I'm not actually a combination of a volatile and poisonous metal and a colorless and poisonous gas that is paradoxically edible.

In reply to Jsalt (msg # 135):

I was trying to get a bio that didn't concern your name...

It's better than my other drafts.

Bio drafts include:

• Sugar is a better seasoning than salt
• Sugar is better than salt
• Sugar tastes better on food than salt
• Salt is not as good as sugar
• Salt needs to die (the worst one so far...)
• The revolution against salt

I was just trying to spread the word about the dangers of attempting the salt rush.
It's better to not be hyper than to have kidney stones.

So, I've been thinking about the limitations of playing magic in this format.  There are a few, but most just require a bit of patience to overcome.

One that isn't that easy to get past is the issue of cards that let your opponent look at, say, the top card(s) of your library without you getting to see them as well since, obviously, you have to look at them and tell him what they are.  This might be overcome if the spreadsheet could give you a reference number (from the complete list of cards) or maybe the card(s)'s url (since that doesn't specifically name the card) and you could give those to your opponent.  Rearranging the cards (or putting them on the bottom of the deck) without you looking at them is another matter, though.

Huh... What cards do that?

He's talking about the virtual deck file.

Yes but my question is what cards let your opponents see your cards but not you. Since he commented on it, he must have had some card in mind.

These are the ones I found with a casual search...

• Architects of Will
• Coral Fighters
• Cruel Fate
• Dewdrop Spy
• Dimir Charm
• Dimir Machinations
• Elemental Augury
• Eye Spy
• Jace, the Mind Sculptor
• Lurking Informant
• Merfolk Observer
• Mishra's Bauble
• Moonring Island
• Natural Selection
• Orcish Spy
• Portent
• Precognition
• Psychic Surgery
• Ransack
• Rootwater Mystic
• Sealed Fate
• Second Sight
• Spy Network
• Tahngarth's Glare
• Thoughtpicker Witch
• Visions
• Wand of Denial
• Wu Spy

And anything with the fateseal ability... which is, apparently, just:

• Spin into Myth
  and
• Mesmeric Sliver

This message was last edited by the player at 11:52, Thu 17 July 2014.

Yes, that is a tricky problem, and not one I'm sure I could overcome...  For the looking at the top of the library part, I guess I could have a "opponent look" macro, that effectively did the same as scry, but coloured the font of the card details in the "Top" section the same as the background, and copied their magiccards.info links into the clipboard, formatted using [olist]...  BUT, then moving the cards to the bottom of the library without the player knowing what cards he is moving?  THAT part becomes more tricky...

Yeah.  I know that if you have to move the card then there's not much way around it.  I figured if all you had to do was let your opponent look at the card then there might be a way to handle that.  All in all, there aren't a huge number of cards that present that problem, so if there isn't a reasonable way to handle it, then it's not a huge issue.  I just thought I'd bring it up so you could ponder it (if you feel like it, that is lol).

Hi everybody. I am a newbie that just started back in May, I took most of June and the first couple of weeks of July off.

So I had about two months worth of weekly LGS trips. I play Mono Green Devotion Aggro and Green Devotion with a Splash of White(for Rootborn Defenses and 1x Ajani Mentor of Heroes). :)

I invested in a couple of Garruk the Beast Callers and Three Kalonian Hydras as well as some other M14 stuff, and now that the M15 release is upon us.

I was wondering if anyone had any advice for a newbie's first release weekend?

How do I get a bunch of cards for M15? Do I just Draft and do Sealed a bunch of times? Should I just buy singles? How do you make the most of the Release Weekend? What usually goes on during these things?

Also I just realized that my Worldspine Wurm is now gone, but that is okay. He was mainly flavor...only came out twice. Once for me, and was immediately exiled. And once for a opponent...who wreaked me with it. T_T

I think I have a deck list on Tapped Out if anyone wants to look at what my deck usually looks like when its mono green.
This message was last updated by the GM at 21:20, Thu 17 July 2014.

Hi Passerby, personally, I can't remember the last time I played face-to-face with real cards - and I've never played in any sort of public place/release weekend etc...  playing with virtual cards where you don't have to worry about the expense of the cards etc is so much more satisfying (for me at least!).

Personally, I pick up fatpacks (mainly to help with storage, since they have a nice box with them) personally, but the shop I frequent tends to have them for about $30, which is about the same price as buying the packs individually. I also draft, but since this normally means paying about $15 for 3 packs plus whatever prize support, it tends to not be an efficient way to amass a collection of cards (unless you do very well). Of course, I tend to pull amazing pulls when I draft, so I walk out with good trade fodder at the very least from them (I got the new Garruk and Chords of Calling from the pre-release, currently at $30 and $15 respectively).

I am the worst drafter on the planet.  That being said,  I usually by individual cards myself.  Works out better for me financially that way.  The benefit is it is typically cheaper.  The downside is you won't open a $30 card for $3 - $4.

I have a friend who refuses to buy singles.  He says half the fun is the thrill of opening the pack and hoping you get the card you want/need.  That's not always a rare for him.  I've seen him buy a bunch of packs looking for a couple of uncommons.

I guess the best way to do it is the way that is the most fun to you!

This thread has made me realise I've got behind on updating the spreadsheet with the latest releases...  and a new one due today!

EDH, EDH, EDH.
The talk about EDH makes me want to make an EDH deck.

But, making a 10000000000 card deck sounds daunting. Also, finding a Commander to use sounds like a pain.

Is it easier than it seems, am I overreacting? Is there any tips to get me started? What am I looking for in a Commander?

I'd say full-coverage (medical and dental) and a generous 401K plan.

Legendary creature that fits the color scheme you want to play.

I find once you figure out your color scheme, if it's not mono there will only be like 3-5 choices and only like one or two will fit your theme, so that makes it easier.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:32, Fri 18 July 2014.

http://magiccards.info/cmd/en/208.html ... this is why everyone should have opened the same set of cards :P

I wonder where Push has gone this past week... kind of eager to get the Emperor game at least once around the table!

I dunno I'd been sort of wondering that myself.

I wish magiccards.info would hurry up and update their site with the M15 release... I want to update my spreadsheet with the latest cards... I realised I had got behind and was missing:

Conspiracy
Duel Decks: Jace vs. Vraska
Duel Decks: Heroes vs. Monsters
Duel Decks: Sorin vs. Tibalt
Modern Event Deck
Vintage Masters

Unless anyone objects, it is my intention to clear Tables 14, 10, 8 and 7 as they haven't been used for over a month...

No objection here, chief.

Fair enough...

Meh. I suppose you could delete table 3 too, there doesn't seem to be a game going there either.</snark> ;P

Ok i'm back i'm guessing nothing really happened and i just need to update a few games feel fre to prod me now if i miss one.

i did mention earlier that i swould be dissapearing for a week or so while i flew home and got over jet lag.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:57, Mon 21 July 2014.

Glad to have you back, Push. By the way, your range of influence in the Emperor game is 3, since you're an Emperor. It allows your spells to affect everyone but the opposing Emperor, although you still can't attack any non-adjacent enemy.

Bought my first M15 Fat Pack for 27.25 USD and pulled a black Planeswalker in that.

Also pulled the new Jace in my Draft.

I have no idea how to use him. :P

Anyone know any good green cards in M15?

In reply to Passerby (msg # 162):

there is only one good card in M15 which is Chord of Calling.... It is also Green.

That card seems super good. You can convoke and do stuff...

Any other green stuff?

There are quite a few nice convoke spells for green, and the new Garruk is awesome, even if he does have a splash of black.

a 7 mana planeswaler in my opinion cannot be considered awesome. Anything with CMC above 5 is usually unplayable unless it ends the game on the spot.

New garruk at the moment reads 7 mana kill a planeswalker (can do that at 3 mana) or 7 mana put a 3/3 beast into play. which is far more usefull but still he is too expensive.

to be truly great a walker needs to be around cmc4 and protect iteslf and have a threatening ultimate, or one that will happen sharpish.

---

but then again any set with the cheapest removal being 5 mana is not targeted at me.

Crapshots Ep161 - The Dragon: http://youtu.be/9hJ4tWzgJ5M

This...is...adorable.

In reply to PushBarToOpen (msg # 166):

New Garruk will probably see play in at least standard, what with Nykthos being a thing and all.

The new Ajani looks like it has a powerful Ultimate, especially if you combine it with Urza's Armor, Battletide Alchemist, or something like that.

Chasm Stalker looks like it would be nice for high-draw decks...

Ensoul Artifact? a 5/5 for two mana? Sounds pretty cheap to me.

Genesis Hydra? All the awesomeness of a normal Hydra with free permanents thrown in.

Goblin Rabblemaster is basically a creature version of Goblin Assault. Combine them both for LOTS of disposable Goblin bodies. :D

Without something giving them all Haste, Nissa's Ultimate is just massive land grab.

Ob Nixilis looks like he would shut down "Search your library" decks.

Phytotitan can't stay dead. So yeah... You'd have to give it trample or something if you want it to be really nasty.

Resolute Archangel? "OH Anything less than TOTAL KILL in a single turn and I'll get better". Combined with Ajani up there and it would take a massive amount of pinging to drag you down (or Poison. Or an alternate win condition. Shush! I'm trying to make a point. :P).

Sliver Highlord seems INSANELY powerful, considering most Slivers run a rainbow deck anyways. The only things nastier than infinitely powerful Slivers? INVULNERABLE infinitely powerful Slivers. Hope you've got Exile, or you're just doomed.


The new Jace looks like he sucks hard though.

In reply to The MunchKING (msg # 169):

Don't remind me of the new sliver legend, I'm already afraid to play against it in EDH. *shudders*

Be more afraid of Rhys the Redeemed and Captain Sisay in EDH. I knew there was a reason they were banned in the last Magic game on RPoL. What Sliver Hivelord does not have is a way of searching up whatever Sliver you might need. You'd need Sliver Overlord for that... Yeah, a Sliver EDH deck would be powerful without trying.

Indestructible does have another weakness other than Exile: Mutilate like effects. Having zero toughness sends you straight to the graveyard, no questions asked (except for cards that get shuffled back into the library instead).

Well yeah but +/+ is like the MOST common sliver power.

I've really never had issues with Rhys or Sisay on MODO, which is were I do most of my magicing these days

In reply to Jsalt (msg # 171):

Sacrifice effects work too.

Oh that's true I forgot about sacrifice, Army of Slivers, meet Killing Wave

And unsummon effects... like Evacuation http://magiccards.info/dpa/en/9.html

By the way, I was messing around with the formatting on the copy & paste of the Name & Link box and I thought that it looked better and was a bit easier to read with the link in small letters.  Matt said that would probably be doable.  Here's a sample for comparison:


Temporal Adept http://magiccards.info/9e/en/102.html
Counterspell http://magiccards.info/me4/en/45.html
Capsize http://magiccards.info/tp/en/55.html
Rescind http://magiccards.info/us/en/92.html
Iron Maiden http://magiccards.info/ul/en/127.html
Mishra's Factory http://magiccards.info/ddf/en/73.html
Remote Isle http://magiccards.info/bd/en/75.html
Lonely Sandbar http://magiccards.info/c13/en/305.html

    vs.

Temporal Adept http://magiccards.info/9e/en/102.html
Counterspell http://magiccards.info/me4/en/45.html
Capsize http://magiccards.info/tp/en/55.html
Rescind http://magiccards.info/us/en/92.html
Iron Maiden http://magiccards.info/ul/en/127.html
Mishra's Factory http://magiccards.info/ddf/en/73.html
Remote Isle http://magiccards.info/bd/en/75.html
Lonely Sandbar http://magiccards.info/c13/en/305.html


What do you guys think?  Worth the effort to change it?  (Assuming it's not too much trouble, that is...)  To me, it just makes it a bit easier to read.  Naturally, if I'm alone in this, then I can just change it in my own posts, but I thought I'd bring it up and see what you guys thought.

It doesn't really matter to me, but go ahead if you prefer it. You may notice the changes I do to the format of the cards. I do it because I prefer it that way.

I played with it a bit and I noticed that her Ultimate turning the Lands she grabs into Elementals doesn't end an the end of the turn. So IF you can pull it off, it's actually more powerful than I gave it credit for...

EDIT: And her +1 Ability doesn't wear off either? Huh... I guess I just sold her short all over.

Hey guys, I made deck using this site I remembered. It's called Tapped Out.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks...m-probable-bad-idea/

Anyone have opinions on this deck loadout?

I know that the deck will be subject to rotation soon, but I hope to go to FNM this week and use it.

Though I see I have a huge weakness against Control. Exile effects will probably sink this deck.

Erm yes i have a few comments about the deck.....

Although this is picking the deck apart quite a lot don;t feel discouraged there is a decent idea in there but its execution is lacking.

So here goes

Creatures

Arbour collosus - Your only way to deal with fliers i would add 1 or 2 more, its a good agresivly costed creature.

Akroan Collosus - Remove this now. its too expensive you might never get to 8 mana in the first place and it needs another 10 mana to do anything agressive.

Coursair of Kruphix - Maybe add one more. you need early ways to discourage attackers, but 3 seems about right.

Elvish mystic - 3 is good, maybe fiull empties with a 4th but the caryatid is better

genisis Hydra - too expensive given you have a lot of 5 and 6 costs in the deck, its likley that you will either play early, swing and miss or never get up to the 9-10 mana range you need to garentee a hit with it.

Hydra Broodmaster - Cut this, its too expensive, 6 mana for a 7/7 is good just its monstosity is far far to overcosted to be of any use.

Kalonian Hydra - Yes good usefull

Mistcutter Hydra - I would move this to the sideboard against blue. It tends to do nothing or do everything. Of course this all depends on your local meta.

Nylea, God of the hunt - Maybe only have 2, the trample is nice but your things should be big enough to steam roll anyway. Also you will struggle to get 5 devotion as you have a lot of 1 coloured mana stuff.

Sylvan caryatid - add 1 more this card is invaluable to you as you don;t have much early defence

Voyaging Satyr - Ok as ramp, i guess you need it, don;t forget it attacks too!.

Worldspine worm - Too expensive just cut it.

Enchantments

In a format with back to nature present ytou need to be certain about these. a 2cmc card kills them all.

bow of Nylea - Very usefull for you, and the number seems about right.

market Festival - By the time you reach 4 mana you shouldn;t need to ramp anymore, If you do the deck is flawed in some way. Cut them.

Primeval bounty - a one of seems ok to me. don;t add any more. its expensive and does nothing the turn you play it.

Instants

Chord of calling - Again given what you are searching for and most of your cheap early cretures are mana dorks anyway i don't see this being a good fit. we are talking 10 mana to search something up. but a 1 off isn;t doing too much harm and there are worse cards out there..

Solidarity of heroes - This is a win more. cut it, it doesn nothing early and later will only help you if you have your big beefy creature out.

Artifacts

Godsend - Powerfull yes but its double white in mostly green deck you won't be able to play this 90% of the time you draw it unless you seriosly change your mana base, which will effect the playability of the rest of your deck. Overall i would let it go.

Planeswalkers

Ajani - Yesh no real problems here, maybe add one more.

Garruk - Expensive you should be playing a big creature rather than this

Land

First commandment of lands is use 24. but given the amount of ramp creatures i could see 22 working. Overall i like it however 2 things 1 Unknown shores does nothing for you. If you want it for the splash colour a plains would be better. Also Nykthos will not make you explode and is a legindary land. so i would drop it to 2

If you really want to keep the white splash (which is usefull) i would go with a base of

12 Forests
2 Nykthos
4 Temple of Plenty
3 plains

Sideboard
Ajani's Presence - usefull yes but it is more of a defensive card replace with gods willing.

Consign to dust - Back to nature is cheaper and destroys everything, a strictly better card, artifacts arn;t a problem at the moment either.

Deicide - 2 off seems fine to me

Pilar of light - Still unsure about this card, But i believe banishing light will serve its roll just as well if not better, if your worried about Enchantment destruction run Devouring light instead - Same cost Exiles and doesn't have the 4 toughness restriction Also usually the thing you want to kill will attack or block at some point.

Reprisal - See above

Rootborn Dsefences - Yes i can see this coming in if you expect board wipe. or need to push through a wall of blockers.

Savage summoning - Not a very good card also being as its sideboard i can't see why you would btring this in. Cut it for some more specific answers.

Settesen Tactics - This card is main board or not at all.

---

Cards to consider

Polukranos - Cheaply costed big creature that also has a small removal function

banishing light - removes anything

Devouring light - removes any creature that you are actually bothered about.

Gods willing - 1 mana protect your creature.

Life's Legacy - Not a great card but is a cheap source of card advantage incase a creature you control gets pacified.

Hornet nest - Will give you the time you need to build up or find bigger creatures.

Okay, I will look into seeing if I can get some of those cards.

The only things I have at the moment are


2 Polukranos

4 banishing light -

1 Life's Legacy -

1 Hornet nest -

What do you mean by

Solidarity of heroes - This is a win more. cut it, it doesn nothing early and later will only help you if you have your big beefy creature out.

I don't know whether I should cut it or not, depending on how you read it. I should cut it because it does nothing, but keep it because it will help me later?

The idea is it won't do you much good until you already have a big tank out, in which case you should already be winning so you don't need it. I'm not sure I agree, but that's what he meant.

In reply to The MunchKING (msg # 182):

I see, well I took it because it seemed more useful then Aspect of Hydra or Giant/Titanic Growth(which I used before to beef up mana dorks for early strikes).

If I get any of the Hydras, monstrous effects, or etc out I can double the the 1/1 counters.

I figure it would ensure victory? Plus it might help if I have to put a hydra out at lower CMC.

What do you think MunchKING?

Any recommendations for tomorrow?

Well the thing is unless you have trample, it's still getting blocked by any 1/1 your opponent can throw in its way. So at a point doubling the counters just lets it kill bigger blockers. Which if your opponent is running Marrit Lagre or Azumareal of the Aeons torn, might be a deal. Except those guys are invulnerable. So I'd say if you're going for big green, you should include either the Overrun Garrak and/or Primal Rage.

Nyela is good for that too, and according to push you've got her.

EDIT: The other major weakness I'm seeing is fliers. How many of your guys have reach? You might want to look into that, or some way to untap your bow incase they have a 3+ toughness flier.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:24, Thu 31 July 2014.

In reply to Passerby (msg # 183):

Yeah flying is a big weakness to you.

Add in the banishng lights and a couple more arbour collussess. and yo should be good.

If thts all you have then i would say

Cut

Broodmaster
Worldspine wurm
Market Festival
Godsend
Solidarity of heroes

add in all the cards you have except life's legacy and put that in sideboard)

Remember giant growth doesn;t actually read +3/+3 it reads win a combat you were going to loose... its much better played that way. But i iwouldn;t reccomend it for a big stompy deck anyway, its inlikley they will be killing you with damage.

Also switch up to the mana base i suggested. or at the very leat change the unknown shores into a plains. Unknown shores is worse than a basic land and is only really playable in limited, even then only in fringe cases, its a really really bad card.

Okay, life legacy in side board.

Would adding in some Plummets be good?

Hmm, I only have one extra Abor Colossus.

Would using Basra Tower Archer be useful?

I have four of them.

Edit: I am leery on dropping Shrine of Nyx to two, given that I tend to use that trick where you use it, then play another one and then use it again with floating mana.

I am looking through my stuff.

If I take Hornet's Nest, I should keep the Setessian Tactics, right?

Edit2:

Okay, I took out what you told me to take out. Also took out the Savaging Summonings and Ajani's Presence and added in 4 Banishing Lights and 3 Back to Natures.

Though I really want to try Godsend, so I shifted it to the side board

I added in 1x Kalonian Hydra, 1x Abor Colossus, 1x Hornet Nest, and the Two Setessian Tactics.

Also that Slyvan Caritid

Here. Might be faster just to edit the Tappedout deck list and show you.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks...m-probable-bad-idea/

Edit3: And somehow I lost a bunch of cards in between me getting up to get a drink and coming back to my room. I seemed to have lost a sleeved Banishing Light, and a Back to Nature. Found three Fated Retributions and some Glimpse the Sun God. Would Murder Investigation be good?

I got 1 space left in my sideboard, and a large selection of cards in Green and White.

Would adding something like a Angelic Skirmisher or a Phyrexian Revoker work? Or perhaps another Hydra or something?
This message was last edited by the player at 08:45, Fri 01 Aug 2014.

Push, you're up in the Emperor Game.

And Table 5 in case you miss it :-)

Huh. The flavor text mystery deepens.

My Swamps are claiming to have Tragic Slip's flavor text (Apparently, the spreadsheet likes it?). Which is weird, because I looked in the All Cards tab, and checked each Swamp entry. Not a one had flavor text. It appears there's something weird with the formula to look up flavor text, as it sometimes decides a card without flavor text in the database should get one anyways. Also, I have seen some cards that it gives two sets of flavor texts. And guess which flavor text turns up as the extra more often than not?

Linger on death's door and risk being invited in.

I'd certainly previously found the Swamp/Tragic Slip flavour text issue as well - it was on just one swamp - the one from Duel Decks: Jace vs. Vraska edition..

Still not sure how the data error happened, but I don't think it is a formula lookup issue - just something to do with the import process.

I'm going on vacation for the next week, just to let you know.
I'm not sure if there's going to be internet, but even if there is, then we'll probably be to busy to use it anyways.

What?  How rude!  How inconsiderate!  Going on vacation in the middle of an Emperor game?!?

Err, I mean... have fun!  Don't do anything I wouldn't do... ;D

OK - Friendly reminders for various people in the various Multiplayer games:

• Table 12: EDH Matthew ,Crmnlst, Jeff, Red
  Waiting on Jeff, but he is having a hard time in Real Life, so patience is a virtue here.
• Table 6: EDH game - RFL, Red, Matthew
  Waiting on RFL
• Table 1: EMPEROR GAME!
  Waiting on LAGO to respond to LotP's attack...  Of course by the time we get through Lago's go then hopefully Sugar will be back from hols!
• Table 3: EDH:  Matthew, Crmnlst, Jsalt, Red.
  Waiting on Red.
• Table 11: EDH - Red, Flug, Crmnlst, Matthew
  Also waiting on Red.
• Table 5 EDH: Matthew/Munch/Push/Red - Crazy Train!
  Also waiting on Red.  :-)

Technically, unless Red has a response to you on table 3 it's my turn. But I really hope he's got something to stop Marath, at least for now, because you've managed to become unstoppable. Again. Though this time it looks like sheer luck, which is a (small) improvement over Captain Sisay. I never find it fun to have a deck play the same way time after time, even if it does steamroll opponents.

Yeah - decks that rely on searching a library are pretty powerful and do tend to run the same way as soon as you get your first search - Note to self, I must stop building decks that rely so much on searching for cards!

As for Table 3, you are right - I had some lucky draws.

Yeah, well I'm half considering building a Maralen of the Mournsong deck complete with Ob Nixilus, Unshackled just to prove a point. Though at the moment I need ninety seven more cards to make a Commander deck.

I assume you mean Ob Nixilis, the Fallen?

No.

This guy: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pa...?multiverseid=383330

Ah, unfortunately magiccards.info has yet to be updated with the Magic 2015 cards... and I always forget to check Gatherer instead.

I can see how those two cards would make a great combo!

For maybe one turn. As someone uses their 'draw' from Maralen to pull something to kill/neutralize Ob Nixilus.

He's a commander. He'll bounce back.

And if you throw some more mill in there it could be really nasty.

Ah, that depends on whether I choose him as a commander, or something else. If he's the commander, then they'll just remove Maralen. Or perhaps he won't bounce back because of the insane amount of mana you'd need to recast him.

All in all, it's a combo that literally gives the opponent all they need to undo it, given that they can do it in time (two or three turns).

If you had the mana to cast him once, then it's only two more.

Each time. Remember, each opponent is getting to pull what they want from their deck. And when you're forcing them to sac a creature each turn AND hitting them for 13, then they tend to go for the card to kill you, or whatever is letting you do that.

Fair enough.

You just need some sort of "cast creatures for free" spell...

I know there's a blue one for Zombies, I'm not so sure about a more general one.

I do know if you are willing to use non-basic land mana sources  Fist of Suns could be useful.

http://magiccards.info/5dn/en/123.html

That would only be possible in a five color deck, since you are limited to only creating mana of your commander's color identity.

Still, since I rely on the spreadsheet I'd have to wait until Magic 2015 gets added before I can seriously consider the 'combo'.

I thought you just couldn't have other basic lands. I'll have to look it up.

Even so Mycosyth Lattice is Modern/Commander viable.

http://magiccards.info/ds/en/130.html

Now your combo is getting expensive in terms of parts you have to keep around too...

Add a Darksteel forge to keep them from screwing up your artifacts and we're looking at a five card combo just to keep Ob and the morn song in play.



LackyCCG has updated with them.

903.5c a card may be included in a commander deck only if every color in its color identity is also in the commander's color identity.


So since Fist of suns has RGBUW in its text it can only be used in rainbow decks for Commander, even if you did combo with the ML.

...Yeah. Also, still can't generate mana of any color but your commander's. I use this link for Commander rules: http://mtgcommander.net/rules.php

Hit Deck Construction under the Rules header, and check out rule #4.

In reply to Jsalt (msg # 210):

Well, with the Mycosyth Lattice, you don't have to generate mana of any other color.  It allows you to spend it as though it were any color without actually changing the color of the mana.  Of course, all of the cards in your deck have to match your commander's color identity any way, but if you happen to steal or copy another player's card which has an activation cost of a different color, the Lattice will let you pay for that.

Okay... let me make something absolutely clear here:

I UNDERSTAND. I GET THE RULES OF COMMANDER. I AM NOT CONFUSED ABOUT THIS.

What I was trying to say was that you could only put Fist of the Suns in a five colored Commander deck. Because it would be impossible to use unless you could generate all colors of mana AND because it counts as being all colors.

And yet, for some reason, I keep getting people trying to tell me the rules I understand. Repetitively. Which really gets on my nerves.

With that, I'm done talking about this. I just wanted to point out one interesting but inherently difficult to pull off card combination, and suddenly it seems like everyone wants to teach me the rules.

I was saying I was wrong, not explain them to you. (Well, not necessarily. If you were thinking the same wrong thing I was, well then you would have learned something)

Uh, okay... wasn't directed at you specifically.  I know we have some new people here who might not be as clear on the commander rules and who might happen to read this thread.  I, myself, am fairly new and haven't played commander yet (although I've read up on the rules and am working on a deck) so pointing out the rules is helpful to me in case I've got them wrong and someone with more knowledge can correct me.

I apologize for annoying you, but I'm going to make a suggestion, so if you think that might annoy you further, you might want to stop reading here... in fact, I'll put it in a spoiler so you can avoid it entirely if that's the case.

---

Spoiler text: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)
If discussing rules is going to upset you, then it might be best to avoid getting into discussions about rules... or at least take it to a private thread where people aren't likely to jump in.

---

3000!

Hmm, anyone have opinions on premade Commander decks?

the only one that works is the proshh deck.. each other one seems to be a mix of two opposing themes wanting to control the deck.

for example the esper deck has an artifacts matter theme and a lifegain theme. so if you get all of one of those type of cards you are golden but more likley you will get half and half and so not be able to focus propperally achiving mediocre results all the way.

Basically they are a good basis for further modification only

All gone quiet...  Apart from lots of posts in the Push vs Flug game! :-)

I think it's sugar up on the Emperor game, and he said he's out of town.

We're waiting for red in the Crazy Train game.

Maybe we need ANOTHER multiplayer game on the go then???  :-)

Who is interested, and what format?  EDH?  Free-for-all?  Team Game?

A Planechasing, Tribal, two-headed Giant, Commander, Emperor, Modern Game with a chainsaw on a pole. :p :p

Oooo!  Not done a Planechase game for a while!  Not sure my spreadsheet can handle chainsaws though...

It wouldn't be Vince Russo booking without SOMETHING on a pole. :p



EDIT: My spell checker actually recognizes "Russo" but only as a Proper noun. That's pretty cool.

Hey Crmnlst, can you salvage the Planar Deck post from your game so I can keep it on this board?  Save me reformatting it.

Does it have ALL the Planes?

Also the only time I played Planechase was on the Duel of the Planeswalkers game for the PS3, where they had their own Custom die with a 'switch planes' and a 'Plane-related thing happens' face on the die. What's the rules for using regular dice in that rule-set?

It has 41 of them... is that all?

Your spreadsheet does indeed have a chainsaw! Although they renamed it to fit the Gothic Elizabethan Horror theme of the set...

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pa...?multiverseid=221186

I might like another game, although if it's EDH I might want to try and build a new deck.

According to this, the total of Planes and Phenomena are 82...

Was there anything else you were supposed to put in a planes deck?

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pa...22Planeswalker%22%5D

Suspect I'll have to re-read the Planechase rules to remind myself of how it all works...

I'll have some time at the weekend - and good news, magiccards.info has the Magic 2015 Core Set cards uploaded now - so I might even get to release version 10 of my spreadsheet over the weekend!

This is what I got of MagicCards.Info:

Planechase 2012 Edition
Name                     Extra          Number Artist

1. Chaotic Æther               Phenomenon 1/40 Dan Scott
   
2. Interplanar Tunnel          Phenomenon 2/40 Chuck Lukacs
   
3. Morphic Tide                Phenomenon 3/40 Brandon Kitkouski
   
4. Mutual Epiphany             Phenomenon 4/40 Jason Felix
   
5. Planewide Disaster          Phenomenon 5/40 Dave Kendall
   
6. Reality Shaping             Phenomenon 6/40 Dan Scott
   
7. Spatial Merging             Phenomenon 7/40 Gabor Szikszai
   
8. Time Distortion             Phenomenon 8/40 rk post
   
9. Akoum                       Plane 9/40 Rob Alexander
   
10. Aretopolis                  Plane 10/40 Christopher Moeller
    
11. Astral Arena                Plane 11/40 Sam Burley
    
12. Bloodhill Bastion           Plane 12/40 Mark Hyzer
    
13. Edge of Malacol             Plane 13/40 Goran Josic
    
14. Furnace Layer               Plane 14/40 Kekai Kotaki
    
15. Gavony                      Plane 15/40 Dave Kendall
    
16. Glen Elendra                Plane 16/40 Omar Rayyan
    
17. Grand Ossuary               Plane 17/40 Kekai Kotaki
    
18. Grove of the Dreampods      Plane 18/40 Erica Yang
    
19. Hedron Fields of Agadeem    Plane 19/40 Vincent Proce
    
20. Jund                        Plane 20/40 Aleksi Briclot
    
21. Kessig                      Plane 21/40 Adam Paguette
    
22. Kharasha Foothills          Plane 22/40 Trevor Claxton
    
23. Kilnspire District          Plane 23/40 John Avon
    
24. Lair of the Ashen Idol      Plane 24/40 Philip Straub
    
25. Mount Keralia               Plane 25/40 Franz Vohwinkel
    
26. Nephalia                    Plane 26/40 Daniel Ljunggren
    
27. Norn's Dominion             Plane 27/40 Igor Kieryluk
    
28. Onakke Catacomb             Plane 28/40 Nic Klein
    
29. Orochi Colony               Plane 29/40 Charles Urbach
    
30. Orzhova                     Plane 30/40 Charles Urbach
    
31. Prahv                       Plane 31/40 Drew Baker
    
32. Quicksilver Sea             Plane 32/40 Charles Urbach
    
33. Selesnya Loft Gardens       Plane 33/40 Martina Pilcerova
    
34. Stensia                     Plane 34/40 Vincent Proce
    
35. Takenuma                    Plane 35/40 Cliff Childs
    
36. Talon Gates                 Plane 36/40 Chippy
    
37. Trail of the Mage-Rings     Plane 37/40 Vincent Proce
    
38. Truga Jungle                Plane 38/40 Jim Nelson
    
39. Windriddle Palaces          Plane 39/40 Kekai Kotaki
    
40. The Zephyr Maze             Plane 40/40 rk post
    
41. Stairs to Infinity          Plane P1 Steven Belledin

And then for the Archenemy, we have:
Archenemy
Name                                    Extra Number Artist

1. All in Good Time                  Scheme 1 Nic Klein
   
2. All Shall Smolder in My Wake      Scheme 2 Jim Nelson
   
3. Approach My Molten Realm          Scheme 3 Jim Pavelec
   
4. Behold the Power of Destruction   Scheme 4 Jesper Ejsing
   
5. Choose Your Champion              Scheme 5 Jim Nelson
   
6. Dance, Pathetic Marionette        Scheme 6 Steve Prescott
   
7. The Dead Shall Serve              Scheme 7 Jesper Ejsing
   
8. A Display of My Dark Power        Scheme 8 Jim Nelson
   
9. Embrace My Diabolical Vision      Scheme 9 Franz Vohwinkel
   
10. Every Hope Shall Vanish           Scheme 10 John Stanko
    
11. Every Last Vestige Shall Rot      Scheme 11 Martina Pilcerova
    
12. Evil Comes to Fruition            Scheme 12 Austin Hsu
    
13. The Fate of the Flammable         Scheme 13 Paul Bonner
    
14. Feed the Machine                  Scheme 14 Wayne Reynolds
    
15. I Bask in Your Silent Awe         Scheme 15 Wayne Reynolds
    
16. I Call on the Ancient Magics      Scheme 16 John Matson
    
17. I Delight in Your Convulsions     Scheme 17 Wayne Reynolds
    
18. I Know All, I See All             Scheme 18 Chuck Lukacs
    
19. Ignite the Cloneforge!            Scheme 19 Ralph Horsley
    
20. Into the Earthen Maw              Scheme 20 Paul Bonner
    
21. Introductions Are in Order        Scheme 21 Nils Hamm
    
22. The Iron Guardian Stirs           Scheme 22 Jesper Ejsing
    
23. Know Naught but Fire              Scheme 23 Val Mayerik
    
24. Look Skyward and Despair          Scheme 24 Todd Lockwood
    
25. May Civilization Collapse         Scheme 25 John Matson
    
26. Mortal Flesh Is Weak              Scheme 26 Howard Lyon
    
27. My Crushing Masterstroke          Scheme 27 Alex Horley-Orlandelli
    
28. My Genius Knows No Bounds         Scheme 28 John Stanko
    
29. My Undead Horde Awakens           Scheme 29 Thomas M. Baxa
    
30. My Wish Is Your Command           Scheme 30 Steve Prescott
    
31. Nature Demands an Offering        Scheme 31 John Matson
    
32. Nature Shields Its Own            Scheme 32 John Stanko
    
33. Nothing Can Stop Me Now           Scheme 33 Jesper Ejsing
    
34. Only Blood Ends Your Nightmares   Scheme 34 Paul Bonner
    
35. The Pieces Are Coming Together    Scheme 35 Ralph Horsley
    
36. Realms Befitting My Majesty       Scheme 36 Véronique Meignaud
    
37. Roots of All Evil                 Scheme 37 Paul Bonner
    
38. Rotted Ones, Lay Siege            Scheme 38 Steve Prescott
    
39. Surrender Your Thoughts           Scheme 39 Howard Lyon
    
40. Tooth, Claw, and Tail             Scheme 40 Paul Bonner
    
41. The Very Soil Shall Shake         Scheme 41 Val Mayerik
    
42. Which of You Burns Brightest?     Scheme 42 Steve Prescott
    
43. Your Fate Is Thrice Sealed        Scheme 43 Steve Prescott
    
44. Your Puny Minds Cannot Fathom     Scheme 44 Martina Pilcerova
    
45. Your Will Is Not Your Own         Scheme 45 Alex Horley-Orlandelli
    
46. Plots That Span Centuries         Scheme 54 Jesper Ejsing
    
47. Perhaps You've Met My Cohort      Scheme 55 Howard Lyon
    
48. Your Inescapable Doom             Scheme 56 Chuck Lukacs
    
49. Drench The Soil In Their Blood    Scheme 57 Val Mayerik
    
50. Imprison This Insolent Wretch     Scheme 58 Jim Pavelec

Did you include the Planes Chase 2012 edition?

From the site I mentioned:

1. Chaotic Æther  (0)
    Phenomenon
   
   
2. Interplanar Tunnel  (0)
    Phenomenon
   
   
3. Morphic Tide  (0)
    Phenomenon
   
   
4. Mutual Epiphany  (0)
    Phenomenon
   
   
5. Planewide Disaster  (0)
    Phenomenon
   
   
6. Reality Shaping  (0)
     Phenomenon
   
   
7. Spatial Merging  (0)
     Phenomenon
   
   
8. Time Distortion  (0)
    Phenomenon
   
   
9. Academy at Tolaria West  (0)
    Plane — Dominaria
   
   
10. Agyrem  (0)
     Plane — Ravnica
    
    
11. Akoum  (0)
     Plane — Zendikar
    
    
12. Aretopolis  (0)
     Plane — Kephalai
    
    
13. Astral Arena  (0)
     Plane — Kolbahan
    
    
14. Bant  (0)
     Plane — Alara
    
    
15. Bloodhill Bastion  (0)
     Plane — Equilor
    
    
16. Cliffside Market  (0)
     Plane — Mercadia
    
    
17. Edge of Malacol  (0)
     Plane — Belenon
    
    
18. Eloren Wilds  (0)
     Plane — Shandalar
    
    
19. Feeding Grounds  (0)
     Plane — Muraganda
    
    
20. Fields of Summer  (0)
     Plane — Moag
    
    
21. Furnace Layer  (0)
     Plane — New Phyrexia
    
    
22. Gavony  (0)
     Plane — Innistrad
    
    
23. Glen Elendra  (0)
     Plane — Lorwyn
    
    
24. Glimmervoid Basin  (0)
     Plane — Mirrodin
    
    
25. Goldmeadow  (0)
     Plane — Lorwyn
    
    
26. Grand Ossuary  (0)
     Plane — Ravnica
    
    
27. Grixis  (0)
     Plane — Alara
    
    
28. Grove of the Dreampods  (0)
     Plane — Fabacin
    
    
29. Hedron Fields of Agadeem  (0)
     Plane — Zendikar
    
    
30. Immersturm  (0)
     Plane — Valla
    
    
31. Isle of Vesuva  (0)
     Plane — Dominaria
    
    
32. Izzet Steam Maze  (0)
     Plane — Ravnica
    
    
33. Jund  (0)
     Plane — Alara
    
    
34. Kessig  (0)
     Plane — Innistrad
    
    
35. Kharasha Foothills  (0)
     Plane — Mongseng
    
    
36. Kilnspire District  (0)
     Plane — Ravnica
    
    
37. Krosa  (0)
     Plane — Dominaria
    
    
38. Lair of the Ashen Idol  (0)
     Plane — Azgol
    
    
39. Lethe Lake  (0)
     Plane — Arkhos
    
    
40. Llanowar  (0)
     Plane — Dominaria
    
    
41. Minamo  (0)
     Plane — Kamigawa
    
    
42. Mount Keralia  (0)
     Plane — Regatha
    
    
43. Murasa  (0)
     Plane — Zendikar
    
    
44. Naar Isle  (0)
     Plane — Wildfire
    
    
45. Naya  (0)
     Plane — Alara
    
    
46. Nephalia  (0)
     Plane — Innistrad
    
    
47. Norn's Dominion  (0)
     Plane — New Phyrexia
    
    
48. Onakke Catacomb  (0)
     Plane — Shandalar
    
    
49. Orochi Colony  (0)
     Plane — Kamigawa
    
    
50. Orzhova  (0)
     Plane — Ravnica
    
    
51. Otaria  (0)
     Plane — Dominaria
    
    
52. Panopticon  (0)
     Plane — Mirrodin
    
    
53. Pools of Becoming  (0)
     Plane — Bolas’s Meditation Realm
    
    
54. Prahv  (0)
      Plane — Ravnica
    
    
55. Quicksilver Sea  (0)
      Plane — Mirrodin
    
    
56. Raven's Run  (0)
      Plane — Shadowmoor
    
    
57. Sanctum of Serra  (0)
      Plane — Serra’s Realm
    
    
58. Sea of Sand  (0)
      Plane — Rabiah
    
    
59. Selesnya Loft Gardens  (0)
      Plane — Ravnica
    
    
60. Shiv  (0)
      Plane — Dominaria
    
    
61. Skybreen  (0)
      Plane — Kaldheim
    
    
62. Sokenzan  (0)
      Plane — Kamigawa
    
    
63. Stairs to Infinity  (0)
      Plane — Xerex
    
    
64. Stensia  (0)
      Plane — Innistrad
    
    
65. Stronghold Furnace  (0)
      Plane — Rath
    
    
66. Takenuma  (0)
      Plane — Kamigawa
    
    
67. Talon Gates  (0)
      Plane — Dominaria
    
    
68. Tazeem  (0)
      Plane — Zendikar
    
    
69. The Æther Flues  (0)
      Plane — Iquatana
    
    
70. The Dark Barony  (0)
      Plane — Ulgrotha
    
    
71. The Eon Fog  (0)
      Plane — Equilor
    
    
72. The Fourth Sphere  (0)
      Plane — Phyrexia
    
    
73. The Great Forest  (0)
      Plane — Lorwyn
    
    
74. The Hippodrome  (0)
      Plane — Segovia
    
    
75. The Maelstrom  (0)
      Plane — Alara
    
    
76. The Zephyr Maze  (0)
      Plane — Kyneth
    
    
77. Trail of the Mage-Rings  (0)
     Plane — Vryn
    
    
78. Truga Jungle  (0)
     Plane — Ergamon
    
    
79. Turri Island  (0)
     Plane — Ir
    
    
80. Undercity Reaches  (0)
     Plane — Ravnica
    
    
81. Velis Vel  (0)
     Plane — Lorwyn
    
    
82. Windriddle Palaces  (0)
     Plane — Belenon

it might be fun to do a plane chase/twin-headed/EDH tournement...if anyone ekse would be up to it

My actual advice would be EDH OR THG. Both would require too many people working in concert.

In reply to The MunchKING (msg # 234):

out of the two I'd pick the EDH

THG can be a bit of a pain to play via post. Not to say it can't be done, but the formatting is a bit weird. Personally, I'd rather finish the Emperor game than start a THG game.

As for a Planechasing EDH game... sounds somewhat crazy fun, since all it would require is for us to have an EDH deck and someone to run the planes we run through.

Problem is, I don't feel like building a new EDH deck right now... I suppose I could try updating one of my archived ones. Like, one I haven't run in forever, possibly one that hasn't been seen on this board.

If there is enough interest I wouldn't care to run the planes for you guys.  Someone would have to explain it to me though.  I've never seen it.

I could see, but I think Lackey has all the planes/Phenomena.

I'd go for an EDH Planechasing game...  The way we ran the Planes last time was a defined list on a separate thread, and then rolling to see what card was being drawn...  cumbersome, but doable.  I'll review my spreadsheet to see if there is anyway that the sheet could be used to help...

BTW - version 10 is being tested - the M15 cards are loaded along with some others that were missing :-)

I'll be using my primary personal deck if we do this, I'd be fully available to start this on wednesday

Sorry I've been absent for so long. My computer at home went down and I can't access this site at work. I should be able to post shortly (I'm thinking I might be able to get the data tomorrow at work that I need). I have most of the stuff I need on order to fix my desktop, but may end up having to send in my motherboard, as the CPU socket seems to be defective and will not connect to the CPU or even keep it in place.

Ugh.  Well that sucks.  Good luck getting it straightened out!
This message was last edited by the player at 23:21, Tue 12 Aug 2014.

Well, the motherboard has a 3 year warranty, and I've only had it for a couple months so there shouldn't be much issues if I have to send it in for repairs.

Well that, at least, is some consolation.

Sorry for the delay folks - been having some finalising issues - will hopefully sort out very soon!  The new cards are at least loaded into the spreadsheet database now...  ALSO, for those who want to have the card images show - I've created the means by which to have them appear when you select the card name as before - but this time without the delay as it fetches the image from the web...  Now, you just have to download the 1.6GB zipped folder of images and have the unzipped folder in the same directory as your copy of the spreadsheet...  (It also has the option to show them on the All Cards tabas well - though I've not got around to doing it for the Deck Tab yet)

Umm, I have a weird idea...but I don't know if it would be cool to post it here and ask for help...just to check the waters, I am thinking about making a deck list to memorialize Robin Williams' passing. He was a big gamer, and Blizzard is planning on memorializing him in WOW somehow and there are petitions.

I don't have the real money and time to do a model tabletop army, as he was a big Warhammer fan, but I would like to make a little project dedicated to him.

Sorry if this is weird, if you guys tell me to drop the issue, I will. Apologies in advance.

What would it have? Genies? Soldiers?

In reply to The MunchKING (msg # 247):

I don't know. I mean, I have just been considering Standard, and given what I know of Robin Williams, it's a bit hard for me to pin down. He's been in like 80 films and 26 tv shows and he did all sorts of things.

Reason I am soliciting help is because I don't know where to start.

Or would Standard be too limiting? I am limiting it to Standard because there are just so many choices and I figured starting with a small pool of cards would be easier.

Perhaps we should start at color?

for him it would fir bet to go aliens, genies, soldiers, and out right comedy so you'll need to mix fantasy and 40k to make a Robin Williams Army

In reply to Medeval_Metal_Head13 (msg # 249):

And would that be possible to make in Standard? >.>

In reply to Passerby (msg # 250):

nope, it would only work in casual games, but would be funny as hell to figure out and would result in the perfect tribute to such a comedic legend

In reply to Medeval_Metal_Head13 (msg # 251):

Alright, let's make a casual Robin Williams deck.

I am guessing that it would be not be standard legal?

Should we go for his roles or for him himself?

I have heard a guy say he is a sort of Red-blue type of guy.

I am thinking a splash of black for his struggles.

In reply to Passerby (msg # 252):

as he was some who put all of himself into his roles you'd have to do both, but as a magic deck from him you'll have to include unhinged

I think I'm caught up. Sorry for the delay, but I've been trying to get this computer back up and running (while dealing with a fairly severe sprained ankle and having to walk a ton at work). If I've missed a game, please ping me on it.

Hi Folks - well, I've released version 10...

You can download it from the usual place:
http://www.matthew.fenn.dsl.pi.../Downloads/index.htm

Let me know if you have any problems... I confess I've not tested the Excel 97-2003 version yet...  but I'm hopeful it will work without any problems.

• Version 10.0: Comprehensive code overhaul to improve responsiveness as it was getting very sluggish when lots of tables were open. Database updated to include Magic 2015, Conspiracy, plus a load of other more minor editions.  In fact every card missing up to this point.  Added more deck validation - it now highlights errors in deck construction - particularly around card numbers/card colours in EDH decks. Also added in - following suggestion by Sugar - card images for the main All Cards tab, though it does rely on downloading and unzipping a 1.9gb folder of the images to store in the same folder as where you save the spreadsheet.

Wow!  Sounds awesome!  I can hardly wait to get somewhere with decent bandwidth and download it.

BTW, new avatar?  Very nice!

I used to use RPOL from work - and therefore had avatars disabled - so I'd never bothered to take one... but the other day I realised I was only using RPOL from home, so decided to use avatars again.

BTW - Feedback on the spreadsheet - good or bad - IS appreciated.  Especially any bugs/data errors you might find!
This message was last edited by the GM at 11:55, Sun 17 Aug 2014.

In reply to Matthew (msg # 257):

I've noticed a bug on the 2003 version. When I try and move a creature from my hand to the creatures section, all the fields come up as #N/A. Doesn't appear to happen for any other fields

And another one. When trying to put spells that replaced the example ones in the creature section, it uses the example spells (Such as 'ach, hans, run!') rather than the replacement
This message was last edited by the player at 12:19, Tue 19 Aug 2014.

I'll look into it tonight.

OK - based on your symptoms, I'd guess that when you've created a table, it hasn't worked correctly, and the formula are still pointing at the blankdeck template sheet that is normally hidden...  Can you try creating another new deck and table - and see if it still happens?  If it is still a problem, let me know what deck name you used.

So, I tried it on a new table and it's the same deal. The tables are named T1 and T2, and the decks are named progenitus and infinityguantlet. The issue is easy to work around, since I can just put non-creatures in the spaces and it copies fine

It's gone awfully quiet!

yeah...too quiet

Don't look at me. I'm just waiting for Crmnlst/Push to post on table 3/1 (respectively).

I don't even have a game going yet...

OK - new game then - Jsalt, MetalHead and Matthew...

*shrug*

The MunchKING too is awaiting Push's strong plays in both the games he is currently working.

In reply to Matthew (msg # 266):

any rules on decks past legacy?

Sorry was on holiday ans got too excited to post that i was going away.

That and i had to do meal plans e.t.c for 12 people. Luckily other than the diabetics most people couild eat whatever.

also thanks for calling my plays string.

<hr?

In other news what do you guys think about the changes to the standard format. Looks good to me so far. that is if mattew can keep up with the extra work.

I'll be leaving in a few hours and won't be back for a couple days

In other other news khans of Tarkir spoiler starts in 4 more days i can;t wait!!!!!!!!

To be honest though the only reason i am this excited is becsue of morph. the other two spoilered keywords don;t look to interesting at the moment. well the red one has possibilites but the blue one looks boring

I'm back