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House Rules DISCUSSION.

Posted by MatthewFor group 0
Matthew
GM, 2246 posts
Looks like I picked the
wrong day to give up MTG!
Wed 3 Jun 2015
at 21:42
  • msg #1

House Rules DISCUSSION

Proposed:
|2! Rule amendment |! Date Proposed |! Proposed by |75%



Agreed:

Rule amendmentDate ProposedDate AgreedProposed by
1Poison Rule in EDH games3rd June 201519th August 2015Matthew
To kill using poison counters requires 20 points instead of 10 in an EDH (Commander) game 
2Life total related cards in EDH games3rd June 201519th August 2015Matthew
Specific cards that have rules based on reaching/becoming a certain life total have that life total increased either proportionally or by a maximum of 20
Magister Sphinx http://magiccards.info/arc/en/89.html
"When Magister Sphinx enters the battlefield, target player's life total becomes 10."</i>
should instead read  "...becomes 20"
OR
Felidar Sovereign http://magiccards.info/zen/en/12.html
"At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have 40 or more life, you win the game."
should instead read
"...if you have 60 or more life...
OR
Serra Ascendant http://magiccards.info/m11/en/28.html
"As long as you have 30 or more life, Serra Ascendant gets +5/+5 and has flying."
should instead be 50
OR
Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant http://magiccards.info/sok/en/27a.html
"When you have 30 or more life, flip Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant.
should instead be 50		 

This message was last edited by the GM at 13:40, Thu 17 Sept 2015.
red2wedge
player, 1800 posts
Fri 5 Jun 2015
at 00:24
  • msg #2

Re: House Rules

I thought Serra Ascendant was agreed to be 60, same with Rune-Tail. Pretty much any life total is doubled.
Matthew
GM, 2247 posts
Looks like I picked the
wrong day to give up MTG!
Fri 5 Jun 2015
at 07:15
  • msg #3

Re: House Rules

In reply to red2wedge (msg # 2):

I couldn't remember and typed too quickly...  The whole reason I put the rules as Proposed was so we have a chance to discuss it and agree again :)

In this case, I agree with you... 40 is of course the start life total for EDH, so having the new target thresholds for those two cards at 40 IS stupid. 60 IS more sensible - doubling the increase.

I'll amend.
Jsalt
player, 373 posts
Fri 5 Jun 2015
at 15:21
  • msg #4

Re: House Rules

Makes sense to me as well. And while not all of those cards are in my BW Commander deck, some of them are, so this ruling does impact it.
red2wedge
player, 1802 posts
Fri 5 Jun 2015
at 21:00
  • msg #5

Re: House Rules

Although I think I disagree with the Magister Sphinx being included. At a point in which it can reasonably be cast (without hardcore acceleration), 10 is a reasonable life total and it is not as game breaking as Serra Avatar and Rune-Tail (which can get out on turn 1 and 3 respectively).
The MunchKING
player, 1304 posts
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Fri 5 Jun 2015
at 21:22
  • msg #6

Re: House Rules

That would make a Sorin -3 into a Sorin's Vengeance not a 1 hit kill anymore. :(

http://magiccards.info/m12/en/109.html
http://magiccards.info/m12/en/111.html
Jsalt
player, 374 posts
Fri 5 Jun 2015
at 21:25
  • msg #7

Re: House Rules

While that one hit kill may look nice, remember that Commander is a multiplayer game. And after spending all those resources on taking out one person, others might be a little intimidated... and immediately turn on you to kill you.

It falls under my general rule of 'Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should'.
The MunchKING
player, 1305 posts
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Fri 5 Jun 2015
at 21:31
  • msg #8

Re: House Rules

Well yeah, but now you have 10 more life to tank it with. :p
Valentyna
player, 38 posts
Sat 6 Jun 2015
at 16:50
  • msg #9

Re: House Rules

I vote no.  Partly because I would prefer to play by tournament rules and dislike hosue rules in general.  partly because the poison counter thing is already in play in an ongoing game and changing the rules on someone AFTER the game has started is clearly unfair.

Assuming that votes count, of course.
The MunchKING
player, 1307 posts
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Sat 6 Jun 2015
at 16:55
  • msg #10

Re: House Rules

Presumably it would have to be agreed on ahead of time, and wouldn't change the match that's already in play.
Jsalt
player, 377 posts
Sat 6 Jun 2015
at 18:14
  • msg #11

Re: House Rules

You want to play by tournament rules and not house rules?


...Odd. Commander is a format almost completely made of house rules. In fact, it existed before WotC embraced it and started making cards sets for it, but it is entirely house rules.
Valentyna
player, 41 posts
Sun 14 Jun 2015
at 02:18
  • msg #12

Re: House Rules

I can't speak to it's origins.  I do remember "highlander" decks, but the commander mechanic is new to me, and I ahv eno diea who came up with it.  According to Wizards it originated as a fan thing somewhere in Alaska.  I ahve beenr eferign to the official rules - such as they are - on the wizards site.
Jsalt
player, 379 posts
Sun 14 Jun 2015
at 03:55
  • msg #13

Re: House Rules

I tend to rely on this site for the 'official' rules for EDH/Commander. http://mtgcommander.net/rules.php

Of note is that it encourages house ruling. Especially on the Banlist.
Matthew
GM, 2255 posts
Looks like I picked the
wrong day to give up MTG!
Thu 2 Jul 2015
at 14:52
  • msg #14

Re: House Rules

OK - this discussion has rambled a little - so let me try to bring it back to point...

Let's have votes to Alter or NOT Alter the following cards/rules.


If anyone has any desire to add cards into the mix, please speak up and I'll add them:

Rule amendmentDate ProposedProposed by
1Poison Rule in EDH games3rd June 2015Matthew
To kill using poison counters requires 20 points instead of 10 in an EDH (Commander) game
2Life total related cards in EDH games3rd June 2015Matthew
Specific cards that have rules based on reaching/becoming a certain life total have that life total increased either proportionally or by a maximum of 20
For example:
Magister Sphinx http://magiccards.info/arc/en/89.html
"When Magister Sphinx enters the battlefield, target player's life total becomes 10."</i>
should instead read  "...becomes 20"
OR
Felidar Sovereign http://magiccards.info/zen/en/12.html
"At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have 40 or more life, you win the game."
should instead read
"...if you have 60 or more life...
OR
Serra Ascendant http://magiccards.info/m11/en/28.html
"As long as you have 30 or more life, Serra Ascendant gets +5/+5 and has flying."
should instead be 50
OR
Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant http://magiccards.info/sok/en/27a.html
"When you have 30 or more life, flip Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant.
should instead be 50

This message was last edited by the GM at 21:29, Tue 18 Aug 2015.
The MunchKING
player, 1320 posts
The MunchKING is here!!
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Fri 3 Jul 2015
at 17:34
  • msg #15

Re: House Rules

My question is, will these House Rules be considered the default for playing EDH, and thus require special agreements ahead of time to forgo, or will they be optional requiring us to agree to use them ahead of time?
Jsalt
player, 385 posts
Fri 3 Jul 2015
at 19:09
  • msg #16

Re: House Rules

I'd be okay with either, myself. But I see a better point for them being agreed upon beforehand. Because asking each time would get annoying.
Matthew
GM, 2284 posts
Looks like I picked the
wrong day to give up MTG!
Tue 18 Aug 2015
at 16:12
  • msg #17

Re: House Rules

Any comments on this before we start some new EDH games?  Getting a few votes for or against each of the proposed changes might be nice...  plus any other cards that people thing ought to have exceptions...
Air
player, 7 posts
Tue 18 Aug 2015
at 16:40
  • msg #18

Re: House Rules

I feel like since life gain or damage spells remain the same, perhaps the proposed amendment can read something like "spells based on becoming a certain life plus 20", rather than by proportionality.
Doom
player, 2 posts
Tue 18 Aug 2015
at 16:44
  • msg #19

Re: House Rules

Actually it kind of takes the legs out from under my whole deck strategy. I like to get as much life as possible then throw it at creatures like shadowcloak vampires. =-(
Valentyna
player, 63 posts
Tue 18 Aug 2015
at 17:57
  • msg #20

Re: House Rules

I think Air makes a good point.  it twice as difficult to go from 40 to 80 life as it is to go from 20 to 40 life, making it twice as hard to win using cards that state that condition, for example.
Matthew
GM, 2285 posts
Looks like I picked the
wrong day to give up MTG!
Tue 18 Aug 2015
at 21:27
  • msg #21

Re: House Rules

Fair enough...  If I change the proposed house rules to read +20 instead... perhaps we can vote on it...


edit:  Updated above...

can everyone vote on the Poison rule as well please?
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:30, Tue 18 Aug 2015.
Nyoze
player, 6 posts
Wed 19 Aug 2015
at 07:33
  • msg #22

Re: House Rules

That all sounds fine to me.
Air
player, 9 posts
Wed 19 Aug 2015
at 08:04
  • msg #23

Re: House Rules

I think both proposals are acceptable. :)
The MunchKING
player, 1419 posts
The MunchKING is here!!
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Wed 19 Aug 2015
at 12:56
  • msg #24

Re: House Rules

I am OK with either   Life total rule. +20 or double as long as we agree on something.

Poison counters, should probably be doubled as well. That way they remain twice as good as damage.
Doom
player, 3 posts
Wed 19 Aug 2015
at 13:26
  • msg #25

Re: House Rules

I am against any rule that puts an artificial cap on the possible life totals.
The MunchKING
player, 1420 posts
The MunchKING is here!!
Run in fear!!
Wed 19 Aug 2015
at 13:30
  • msg #26

Re: House Rules

Doom:
I am against any rule that puts an artificial cap on the possible life totals.


But that's not what we were discussing, as you would see in the earlier posts. We were referring to cards that reference a specific life-total such as Serra Ascendant or Feldir Sovereign.
Doom
player, 4 posts
Wed 19 Aug 2015
at 13:36
  • msg #27

Re: House Rules

The MunchKING:
Doom:
I am against any rule that puts an artificial cap on the possible life totals.


But that's not what we were discussing, as you would see in the earlier posts. We were referring to cards that reference a specific life-total such as Serra Ascendant or Feldir Sovereign.


Player is confused. Player looked up cards in question. Player no longer has objections.
The MunchKING
player, 1421 posts
The MunchKING is here!!
Run in fear!!
Wed 19 Aug 2015
at 13:40
  • msg #28

Re: House Rules

*Player hurt himself in his confusion*
Doom
player, 5 posts
Wed 19 Aug 2015
at 13:43
  • msg #29

Re: House Rules

Indeed. Player's head now hurts from confusion.
MrRoboto
player, 4 posts
Wed 19 Aug 2015
at 13:58
  • msg #30

Re: House Rules

Works for me!
Matthew
GM, 2287 posts
Looks like I picked the
wrong day to give up MTG!
Wed 19 Aug 2015
at 19:33
  • msg #31

Re: House Rules

OK folks - I've seen the majority of people agree to this, with, after discussion, no objections, so I'm going to go ahead and enshrine these rules into the house rules as default for EDH played here unless otherwise agreed by players on an individual table.

The specific rule amendments I'm going to make are as follows:

Rule amendmentDate ProposedProposed byDate Confirmed
1Poison Rule in EDH games3rd June 2015Matthew18th Aug 2015
To kill using poison counters requires 20 points instead of 10 in an EDH (Commander) game
2Life total related cards in EDH games3rd June 2015Matthew18th Aug 2015
Specific cards that have rules based on reaching/becoming a certain life total have that life total increased either proportionally or by a maximum of 20
SPECIFICALLY THE FOLLOWING CARDS:
Magister Sphinx http://magiccards.info/arc/en/89.html
"When Magister Sphinx enters the battlefield, target player's life total becomes 10."</i>
should instead read  "...becomes 20"
OR
Felidar Sovereign http://magiccards.info/zen/en/12.html
"At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have 40 or more life, you win the game."
should instead read
"...if you have 60 or more life...
OR
Serra Ascendant http://magiccards.info/m11/en/28.html
"As long as you have 30 or more life, Serra Ascendant gets +5/+5 and has flying."
should instead be 50
OR
Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant http://magiccards.info/sok/en/27a.html
"When you have 30 or more life, flip Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant.
should instead be 50


Now there are other cards that we perhaps ought to consider/discuss about also amending:

In a similar vein to the Magister Sphinx above:
Sorin Markov http://magiccards.info/m12/en/109.html
"−3: Target opponent's life total becomes 10." - should we make this "-3 Target opponent's life total becomes 20" instead?

Test of Endurance http://magiccards.info/ju/en/29.html
"At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have 50 or more life, you win the game." - should we make this "At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have 70 or more life, you win the game."
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:42, Thu 20 Aug 2015.
The MunchKING
player, 1423 posts
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Thu 20 Aug 2015
at 19:07
  • msg #32

Re: House Rules

I agree with Sorin and think Test of Endurace should be handled similarly to Felider Sovereign. Which it is in this proposal, so I will agree with that as well.
Jsalt
player, 387 posts
Thu 20 Aug 2015
at 19:23
  • msg #33

Re: House Rules

While I'm still unable to play for the time being, I'll just voice my agreement to this as well.

One of these days I'll be back, I hope.
Matthew
GM, 2291 posts
Looks like I picked the
wrong day to give up MTG!
Thu 20 Aug 2015
at 21:48
  • msg #34

Re: House Rules

Nice to see you are at least still alive and kicking Jsalt! :-)
Nyoze
player, 7 posts
Thu 20 Aug 2015
at 23:10
  • msg #35

Re: House Rules

I'll agree with both :)
Matthew
GM, 2656 posts
Looks like I picked the
wrong day to give up MTG!
Tue 17 Nov 2015
at 10:49
  • msg #36

Re: House Rules

PROPOSED: Everyone should get one "free" mulligan...  i.e. if you have a crap hand, instead of reshuffling and drawing 6, drawing 7 the first time..., THEN normal mulligan down to 6 or less if necessary...
PushBarToOpen
player, 955 posts
Tue 17 Nov 2015
at 10:53
  • msg #37

Re: House Rules

thought this will help spread some light on the issue, posted it in the game where the issue came about just incase people arn;t clear on the official rules.

Pushbartoopen:
Sorry to butt in here but i think this is important

The Official Mulligan Rule changed

The old way was the Paris Mulligan basicly if you don;t like your hand you can shuffle it back in and draw one less

The new official Mulligan is the Vancover Mulligan Basically its the same as before with one minor difference, if keep a hand of less than 7 cards Scry 1 before the game starts (NOTE: You do not get the Scry when choosing whether or not you wish to keep the hand only after you have kept it)

However both of these are irrelivent here.

Commander Uses the Partial-Paris Mulligan

Partial-Paris is a better version of the Paris Mulligan

When taking the mulligan you Exile any number of cards from your hand face down and then draw that many -1, after mulligans then you shuffle your exile pile into your deck.

So the mulligan that should have been taken is the partial paris not the paris mulligan that was taken.



Additionally although not an official rule most commander groups allow a free mulligan. so after the first Partial-Paris you draw the exact number that you exile then you draw the number you exile -1. this allows everyone to try and sculpt their hand into one that is playable. But this is a house rule only

Sorry for interrupting the game but i thought i should help clarify the rules.

Emma - Overlord of All
player, 276 posts
Tue 17 Nov 2015
at 12:06
  • msg #38

Re: House Rules

Sorry to interupt but how do we do that doing using the spreadsheet since when i do inital draw the thing crashes if there's cards in exile
PushBarToOpen
player, 956 posts
Tue 17 Nov 2015
at 12:33
  • msg #39

Re: House Rules

i think matthew is going to code in the other mulligans now i have brought it to his attention.

a work around for the partial paris is to simply exile the cards and hit regular draw the right amnount of times then repeat. before the games simply delete the cards in exile
LAGO
player, 837 posts
Sat 14 May 2016
at 05:15
  • msg #40

Re: House Rules

Hey guys if I play an Arid Mesa and fetch a sacred foundry do I have to pay 2 life for it to come into play untapped?
MrRoboto
player, 345 posts
Welcome to
The Machine
Sat 14 May 2016
at 05:39
  • msg #41

Re: House Rules

3 total, based on the cards (Arid Mesa requires 1 life), but since the effect is "when it enters the battlefield" rather than being played or played from hand or somesuch, I'd say yes.
Matthew
GM, 3097 posts
Looks like I picked the
wrong day to give up MTG!
Sat 14 May 2016
at 10:59
  • msg #42

Re: House Rules

Yes.
The MunchKING
player, 1885 posts
The MunchKING is here!!
Run in fear!!
Sat 14 May 2016
at 14:17
  • msg #43

Re: House Rules

So.. Question that's been bugging me for some time. If I have Urborg and the Swamp seeker version of Liliana, does that mean Liliana can find any land?

Urborg turns all lands into Swamps, and Liliana can search your library for Swamps. QED.
The Stray
player, 120 posts
Sat 14 May 2016
at 15:07
  • msg #44

Re: House Rules

Urborg turns all lands on the battlefield into swamps. It doesn't do anything to lands in different zones (such as your hand, library, or graveyard).

In fact, Urborg itself isn't a swamp until it's on the battlefield, so you can't hit it with a fetch land or Lili of the Dark Realms.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:09, Sat 14 May 2016.
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