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17:16, 21st May 2024 (GMT+0)

OOC Conversation 3.

Posted by The VoidFor group 0
Sara Gryphon
player, 27 posts
Talos XO
Rank: Master
Thu 28 Oct 2021
at 17:11
  • msg #187

Re: OOC Conversation 3

Good thing someone has them, because I have no overlap with any of those skills.
Zazan Mysh
Captain, 320 posts
Commander. Ship
Master of the INV-Randver
Thu 28 Oct 2021
at 17:35
  • msg #188

Re: OOC Conversation 3

Stats:
  • Str: 14 (+1)
  • Int: 11 14 (+1)
  • Wis: 9. (+0)
  • Dex: 11 (+0)
  • Con: 9. (+0)
  • Chr: 13 (+0)


Skills:
  • Athletics: 0
  • Combat/Projectile: 0
  • Combat/Unarmed: 0
  • Computers: 0
  • Culture/Bothislia : 0
  • Exosuit: 0
  • Leadership: 1
  • Perception: 0
  • Security: 0
  • Tech/Astronautics: 1
  • Tech/Pretech: 0
  • Tech/Postech: 0
  • Vehicle/Space: 0
  • Tactics: 0

Oscar Hargrave
Captain, 266 posts
Ship Master
INS-Angantyr
Thu 28 Oct 2021
at 17:40
  • msg #189

Re: OOC Conversation 3

Mine for reference.

Expert Lvl. 4
 HP: 21

Stats (Modifiers)
Str 11
Int 14 (1)
Wis 12
Dex 14 (1)
Con 11
Cha 12

Current Skills
Culture/ Bothislia -> 0
Culture/ Spacer -> 0
Exosuit -> 1
Tech/ Postech -> 1
Tech/ Astronautic -> 1
Combat/ Energy -> 0
History -> 0
Vehicle/ Space -> 0
Language -> 0
Perception -> 0
Science -> 0
Computer -> 1
Survival -> 0
Security -> 0

Languages: English, Russian, Chinese
Diana Hersson
Captain, 425 posts
The line between disorder
& order lies in logistics
Thu 28 Oct 2021
at 17:46
  • msg #190

Re: OOC Conversation 3

And this be me:

Str: 5 (-1)
Int: 13 (0)
Wis: 12 (0)
Dex: 16 (+1)
Con: 6 --> 14 (+1)
Cha: 6 (-1)

Skills:

     0 Combat/Primitive
     0 Combat/Projectile
     0 Combat/Psitech
     0 Culture/Bothislia
     1 Leadership
     0 Perception (class)
     0 Persuade
     0 Stealth
     1 Tactics
This message was last edited by the player at 17:46, Thu 28 Oct 2021.
Zazan Mysh
Captain, 321 posts
Commander. Ship
Master of the INV-Randver
Thu 28 Oct 2021
at 18:19
  • msg #191

Re: OOC Conversation 3

Actually, double checking my character sheet, I already had Tactics.

Dear void, is it even possible to pick up a culture/Rudrangi?
Chander Havail
player, 45 posts
For the glory
Of life
Thu 28 Oct 2021
at 18:58
  • msg #192

Re: OOC Conversation 3

Stats
Str 09 (0)
Int 12 (0)
Wis 13 (0)
Dex 12 (0)
Con 14 (1)
Cha 13 (0)

Skills
Culture(Hegemony)
Leadership(1)
Persuade
Steward
Combat/Psitech(1)
Combat/Projectile
Stealth(1)
Tactics(1)
The Void
GM, 1045 posts
The Judgement
of Deep Space
Fri 29 Oct 2021
at 05:34
  • msg #193

Re: OOC Conversation 3

Zazan Mysh:
Actually, double checking my character sheet, I already had Tactics.

Dear void, is it even possible to pick up a culture/Rudragni?


It is not, yet.

Also, I want to make a point that something like Culture/Rudragni or Culture/Hegemony is effectively the Culture/Traveler skill keyed to specific areas of influence. In general, cultures are very planet based. It can only be at level 0. So if you wanted to reflect a knowledge of the Hegemonic way of doing things, you would probably want to immerse yourself in Haven culture as that is the seat of power. No one knows for sure where the Rudragni homeworld is or what it is called, as of course, any spacefaring civilization would protect that information with their lives.
Zazan Mysh
Captain, 323 posts
Commander. Ship
Master of the INV-Randver
Fri 29 Oct 2021
at 23:44
  • msg #194

Re: OOC Conversation 3

In reply to The Void (msg # 193):

That's fine, I was thinking more like the dnd knowledge check mechanic. I'll just put my extra skill point into persuade. A captain should be capable of talking his way out of trouble I suppose.
The Void
GM, 1047 posts
The Judgement
of Deep Space
Sun 31 Oct 2021
at 04:58
  • msg #195

Re: OOC Conversation 3

Yeah, it's just not something anyone could know at this point. You could learn the language.
The Void
GM, 1048 posts
The Judgement
of Deep Space
Sun 31 Oct 2021
at 05:15
  • msg #196

Re: OOC Conversation 3

Just as an aside... you don't have any stealth ships.
"Contextual Camo Field" doesn't help you if you're not landing on a planet and pretending to be a rock.
Diana Hersson
Captain, 429 posts
The line between disorder
& order lies in logistics
Sun 31 Oct 2021
at 12:08
  • msg #197

Re: OOC Conversation 3

Umm... Asteroids?

Those are rocks in space, right?
Zazan Mysh
Captain, 325 posts
Commander. Ship
Master of the INV-Randver
Sun 31 Oct 2021
at 14:49
  • msg #198

Re: OOC Conversation 3

The rules specifically say local landing site. You could probably land on an asteroid and blend in, but the important point is these have no Combat value.

I definitely got the wrong impression based on the discussions we've been having.
Diana Hersson
Captain, 430 posts
The line between disorder
& order lies in logistics
Sun 31 Oct 2021
at 16:28
  • msg #199

Re: OOC Conversation 3

Yeah, for the blending in part itself, so though there's no reason it wouldn't work in space:

quote:
The illusion is quite imperfect, and any observer within a hundred yards of the ship can tell that something is wrong. Personal inspection always reveals the imposture. Camo fields can easily defeat any TL3 form of long-range sensor. The fields usually stand up to civilian-grade TL4 detection, but landing in an area under significant military observation is not advisable.


So it can disguise itself as a rock in space or a ruined building in space or a giant plush bunny or whatever in space and TL 3 sensors wouldn't pick up on it until they're so close they'd practically have started landing procedures. As our opponents have mostly TL 3 tech, it should be fine for 'going dark' in space even if it's not entirely what they were intended for.
Zazan Mysh
Captain, 326 posts
Commander. Ship
Master of the INV-Randver
Sun 31 Oct 2021
at 17:12
  • msg #200

Re: OOC Conversation 3

quote:
ntextual camo fieldsĀ disguise shuttles or frigate-sized craft as objects appropriate to their local landing site.

Diana Hersson
Captain, 432 posts
The line between disorder
& order lies in logistics
Sun 31 Oct 2021
at 17:22
  • msg #201

Re: OOC Conversation 3

Yes, "appropriate to their local landing site.". That means, it's not limited to a single shape or form, but can actually generate a number of forms depending on what is the most appropriate given the ship's surroundings.

By which i state that if a camo field can disguise a ship as a rock on ground terrain, it would then be equally capable of disguising a ship as a rock in the middle of a city, or in outer space.

Of course, the ship in question would need to go dark since a set of thrusters would obviously give off more heat than the heat sinks of the camo field would be able to handle, but if you're just running scanners and life support it should be perfectly possible as nowhere in the text is it mentioned that camo fields require an atmosphere to work in. Only that the ship's not moving while it's turned on.
Sara Gryphon
player, 28 posts
Talos XO
Rank: Master
Sun 31 Oct 2021
at 17:50
  • msg #202

Re: OOC Conversation 3

I couldn't find the contextual camo in the main book but it seems like the flavor text you referenced strongly leans in the direction of only being able to mimic nearby things well enough to blend in with them, not fabricate an asteroid disguise out of nothing and play 'ignore just another rock in space' even with the sensors you can fool.

Some of that is likely the movement problem as any rock that moves in anything other than a very easily determined gravitational path clearly isn't a rock no matter what it looks like, but some of it is probably the limitation of the equipment itself.

Is there any direct mechanical effect or bonus other than the descriptive text?
Diana Hersson
Captain, 433 posts
The line between disorder
& order lies in logistics
Sun 31 Oct 2021
at 18:02
  • msg #203

Re: OOC Conversation 3

Nope.

It looks like an (insert object) to anyone more than 100 yards out. TL 3 scanners will tell you it's Not A Spaceship, Civvie grade TL 4's will tell you it's Not A Spaceship, and Mil grade TL 4 scanners are not so easily fooled and might identify it as a camouflaged ship, but mostly if you land right under their noses. If you're already set up the text seems to imply that military TL 4 scanners wouldn't pick up on your presence without targeted area scans. If it were me, i'd say a TL 4 Survey Sensor Array might flag it as a particularly iron rich asteroid, but to regular scanners it'd be nothing of importance.

Here's the full text, by the way:

quote:
Favored by traders forced to deal with unfriendly worlds, contextual camo fields disguise shuttles or frigate-sized craft as objects appropriate to their local landing site. Holoprojectors embedded in the hull and shaped composite shells allow the ship to appear as a dune in a desert, a ruined building in an ancient city, a cluster of trees in a forest, or any other object of comparable size and dimensions. The physical composite shields heat and energy signatures while spoofing radar pings, while the holoprojectors mask the visual outlines of the ship.
The illusion is quite imperfect, and any observer within a hundred yards of the ship can tell that something is wrong. Personal inspection always reveals the imposture. Camo fields can easily defeat any TL3 form of long-range sensor. The fields usually stand up to civilian-grade TL4 detection, but landing in an area under significant military observation is not advisable.
Camo fields can be mounted on shuttles or frigates. The fittings have a base power drain of 2 power and a base mass cost of 1 free mass. The price for a shuttle instillation is 50,000 credits. Power, mass, and base price are all multiplied by the hull class they are installed into, as per the fittings table in the Stars Without Number core book.


I'd say the closest comparison is to a Wraith Shuttle, which reads as having the same module installed for the purposes of nondetection:

quote:
Wraith Shuttle: Wraith-class shuttles are modified cargo lighter hulls designed to sacrifice almost all the interior space in favor of stealth features. Curved surfaces, advanced composites, and contextual mimetic cloaking skins are all worked together to create a shuttle capable of getting small groups of people on or off a world unnoticed. Wraith shuttles have no spike drives and cannot usually manage interplanetary travel, though they can normally reach orbital stations with ten minutes of flight and near moons within two hours. Their fusion plant requires fueling only once per year.
For most practical purposes, Wraith shuttles are immune to tech level 4 sensor technology. So long as the shuttle avoids population centers, steers clear of the immediate neighborhood of orbital sensors, and otherwise keeps a low profile, the shuttle can automatically touch down and lift off without drawing the attention of local sensor arrays.
A wraith shuttle can handle up to eight passengers, including the single pilot required for operation, and keep them breathing for up to two days before requiring a refreshment of their atmosphere. Cargo space is extremely limited, and much of any unused passenger space has to be filled with soft, sensor-deceiving stealth material before liftoff. The passengers can take whatever their encumbrance limits normally allow, plus an additional ten items worth of encumbrance for every passenger slot left unused. If actual mass is important, count it as fifty free kilos of space for every free passenger slot. Wraith shuttles cannot mount weaponry, but if engaged in combat within an atmosphere they can be treated as grav flyers for purposes of statistics.

This message was last edited by the player at 18:04, Sun 31 Oct 2021.
Zazan Mysh
Captain, 327 posts
Commander. Ship
Master of the INV-Randver
Sun 31 Oct 2021
at 19:08
  • msg #204

Re: OOC Conversation 3

Like when I read the contextual came description, its like you're setting up a blind or a camp tent thing. The landing gear and bottom of the ship are concealed by the projections and the composite shells, in Space these would be 100% visible by sensors looking at the bottom of the ship.

The wraith shuttle reads like a stealth bomber.
Sara Gryphon
player, 29 posts
Talos XO
Rank: Master
Sun 31 Oct 2021
at 19:10
  • msg #205

Re: OOC Conversation 3

Those are both unfortunately badly written.  Clearly the focus is on defeating the section on detection in planetary areas on page 66 "Ships in an inhabited planet’s stellar region are almost certain to be discovered."

That doesn't mean it couldn't possibly be used somewhere else but without some kind of background to blend into it would be entirely unpredictable what quality the results have.  Parking on an asteroid, or even fading into the background of a dust ring might work.

Just making yourself look like a tiny rock in the otherwise empty vastness of space could work, but it would be almost entirely useless as any kind of movement will immediately give you away and without movement you aren't going to be anywhere that matters.
Oscar Hargrave
Captain, 269 posts
Ship Master
INS-Angantyr
Sun 31 Oct 2021
at 19:16
  • msg #206

Re: OOC Conversation 3

So, instead of the camo field, we would want the emissions dampers to get the “stealth” benefit?
Diana Hersson
Captain, 434 posts
The line between disorder
& order lies in logistics
Mon 1 Nov 2021
at 01:27
  • msg #207

Re: OOC Conversation 3

quote:
Holoprojectors embedded in the hull and shaped composite shells allow the ship to appear as a dune in a desert, a ruined building in an ancient city, a cluster of trees in a forest, or any other object of comparable size and dimensions. The physical composite shields heat and energy signatures while spoofing radar pings, while the holoprojectors mask the visual outlines of the ship.


I dunno, this part sounds pretty definitive in that it can make the ship appear as literally anything with the same size and dimensions, so a lone asteroid drifting in space at a perfectly natural speed and trajectory through the system isn't that big of a stretch: Our own solar system has 822,000 known asteroids in it.
Chander Havail
player, 47 posts
For the glory
Of life
Mon 1 Nov 2021
at 02:01
  • msg #208

Re: OOC Conversation 3

Most of those are on pretty standard patterns of movement. In a belt. Rogues get a lot of attention at least for a few minutes.
Diana Hersson
Captain, 435 posts
The line between disorder
& order lies in logistics
Mon 1 Nov 2021
at 02:17
  • msg #209

Re: OOC Conversation 3

Well....

quote:
The first spacecraft to transit the asteroid belt was NASA's Pioneer 10, which made its epic crossing in 1972 on the way to the historic first encounter of a spacecraft with Jupiter. Later, Pioneer 11, Voyagers 1 and 2, Galileo, Cassini, NEAR and Ulysses all made the same kind of journey to or across the main belt. Now it is our turn. Fortunately, the asteroid belt is so huge that, despite its large population of small bodies, the chance of running into one is almost vanishingly small - far less than one in one billion. That means that if you want to actually come close enough to an asteroid to make detailed studies of it, you have to aim for a specific asteroid.


Source: http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/News-C...Perspective_6_1_2006

To be precise they'd on average be about 120,000 Earths (33 quadrillion cubic miles) apart from each other. But there are a lot of asteroids trapped in orbit around planets, or just passing through a solar system as well.
The Void
GM, 1049 posts
The Judgement
of Deep Space
Mon 1 Nov 2021
at 07:41
  • msg #210

Re: OOC Conversation 3

That definitely is not the intention of the fitting as it was written, however, I'll grant you that use. However, keep in mind that the ship must be in an idle state and not under power. This also means no active sensor scans and no transmissions, or anyone observing it will know it's not a rock or whatever it appears to be. (Asteroids don't emit radar pings or encrypted radio broadcasts.)

If you want to be stealthy on the move, you can try (Any ship can try as per the rules) with the appropriate rolls.
Diana Hersson
Captain, 436 posts
The line between disorder
& order lies in logistics
Mon 1 Nov 2021
at 10:12
  • msg #211

Re: OOC Conversation 3

Oh, with moving i just meant standard unpowered drift, not engines going full blast. The intent here is to have it constantly scan and, when it detects something, send out a message and go full dark before the enemy can get in position to start their own system scans so that the camo field can take it from there.

Given the aforementioned drift, and the size of space, it would be a pain in the ass to trace even if they do end up picking up on the broadcast. Easily long enough for us to arrive in the system and give them something else to worry about.

That was the thought process, anyway.
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