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17:36, 1st May 2024 (GMT+0)

d20 - Easy Game.

Posted by ArkrimFor group 0
Arkrim
GM, 122 posts
Tue 8 Apr 2014
at 13:06
  • msg #1

d20 - Easy Game

So I like to just jump into the action when I play a game and I don't like spending hours making a character. However, the Window system, d6 games and other "easy" games have never really appealed to me as much as a simple 1d20 + modifier has. So this is just some brainstorming on playing an easy quick d20 game.

JUST ROLL WITH IT
I don't want to spend hours trying to figure out how to play a game. I just want to play the game. It's not hard, just roll with it.

THE GAME MECHANIC
Ever play a d20 game? It's like that. You have bonuses to certain actions and roll a twenty sided die and add these bonuses to the result. If the total is equal to or greater than the difficulty class (DC) you succeed. If not, you fail.

PHYSICAL STATS
DEXTERITY  - accuracy, aim, attack, finesse, marksmanship, precision
DOMAIN     - area, range
MOBILITY   - agility, balance, grace, speed
MIGHT      - damage, destruction, power, strength
RESILIENCE - endurance, durability, stamina, toughness

MENTAL STATS
AWARENESS  - alertness, insight, instincts, perception, streetwise, survival
CREATION   - conjuration or crafting of material objects and substances
INFLUENCE  - appeal, charisma, charm, diplomacy, intimidation, leadership, presence, wealth
KNOWLEDGE  - education, intellect, investigation, memory, puzzle-solving
SUBTERFUGE - deception, guile, manipulation, skullduggery, trickery

Attack with a conjuration spell: Creation + Domain determine max # of targets/size of area/range. Creation + Dexterity to hit. Creation + Might for effectiveness/damage.

COMBAT STATS
There are 4 combat stats:
  • Physical Attack (PA)
  • Physical Defense (PD)
  • Mental Attack (MA)
  • Mental Defense (MD)

These combat stats determine just about everything in combat. If you want to cast spells or use supernatural abilities you'll be making a mental attack rolls. If you want to punch someone in the face, slice a goblin in half with a sword or bust down a door, you'll be making physical attack rolls. You begin with a rank of 0 in these combat stats and 3 points to add to them. Typically no combat rank can exceed 2 + (1.5 × your lowest combat rank) rounded down.

SKILL STATS
You can make up skills based on professional titles. The attempt is to be as specific as possible. For example, "spy" or "athlete" would be too vague. You'd want to say something like "Locksmith" or "Pick-pocket" instead of "spy" and something like "acrobat" or "swimmer" instead of "athlete". If you simply can't come up with a profession for the skill you want, a GM may allow you to use a skill from a traditional d20 system (I recommend Pathfinder).
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills

If you want your character to have unique powers that can be helpful outside of combat such as the ability to turn into animals and run quickly or meld into stone or fly or whatever, you can acquire such abilities as skills. Whenever put against an obstacle you wish to use your power to overcome, you may use it instead of a normal skill. In some cases, such as polymorph, such a power may just boost other skills instead of being useful in themselves. In such circumstances you can assist your own normal skill check with the power skill by rolling both and adding a bonus to your skill check equal to your power rank or half your power rank (round down) depending whether the power is specific (lycanthrope) or vague (shapeshifter).

Given the nature of your power, the GM may lower or increase the DC based on circumstances. To acquire a power as a skill I recommend selecting one magic subschool or descriptor as its skill name and use that as reference to what types of spells or powers you're capable of. If the spell or power you're thinking of is not in a subschool and doesn't have descriptors, it can be selected as its own unique skill.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Spell-Descriptions

The DC to pull off a spell is typically DC5 + (2.5 x spell level)

You begin with 15 points to spend on skills. Typically no skill rank can exceed 3 + your highest combat rank.

ADVANCEMENT
There's no need for levels. You just gain more combat points and skill points. Most battles grant you a handful of skill points depending on their difficulty. Usually no more than 5 are granted from any one battle. Typically combat points are rarer than skill points (1:5 ratio). Sometimes GMs may grant players direct bonuses instead of points to spend depending on the circumstances. Who knows? Have fun with it, that's the freak'n point after all. Some of your skill monkeys or power gamers may want to exchange skill points for combat points or vice versa. If a GM allows this, the conversion rate is 1 combat point = 5 skill points.

AWESOMENESS
If your player is showing a great degree of awesomeness, badassery, freak'n-sweetness or other forms of great roleplay or battle description, you can award them an awesome point. Spending an awesome point effectively means the player can roll 2d20 instead of 1d20 and take the best result. They can even do this accumulatively if they really need to kick down that door or take out that guard. However, they must declare using this before they actually roll. If they do so after their roll the cost is 2 awesome points per d20.

Alternatively they can use an awesome point to take one extra action in a round but they cannot stack that. It's often a good idea to start players off with 1 or 3 awesome points just so they can get a feel for what it's like to be awesome.

PLAYING
You play like you would any other RPG with a GM calling the shots and when they aren't sure if you're going to succeed or not they ask you to make a roll. You roll 1d20 and put it up against a DC the GM has deemed appropriate for the task. If you're trying to accomplish something complex, the GM may require you to make multiple checks and require multiple successes in order for you to accomplish the goal. Mostly this is for players to "figure things out." GMs, don't be afraid to throw bones and drop hints to players who are having a hard time deciphering what to do next. You got to make the game fun. After all, you are the master, the Game Master.

LUCK
Rolling a 20 gives you an automatic success, but only if the action you're taking was possible to begin with. Rolling a 1 is an automatic failure and you lose one of your successes in trying to overcome the obstacle. The GM can roleplay this as they see fit. Also, if you beat a DC by 10 or more you gain 2 successes instead of 1.

COMBAT
Turn order is determined by an Initiative check which is its own skill. In a PBP game initiative order is first come first serve as the saying goes.

During combat everyone takes turns and can only take one move and one standard action per turn. A standard action is any action that competes with another creature, trap or obstacle such as a combat check or opposed skill check. A move action merely moves the character around or allows them to open a door or pick up an item. Some environments may be hazardous (such as balancing on a tight rope or jumping over a chasm) and require a skill check to successfully move. Failing such a skill check normally means you don't move or only move as far as you can before the obstacle stops you. Failing by 10 or more usually has dire consequences (such as falling down the chasm) but usually isn't instantly fatal (your coat gets caught on a branch and now you're dangling over the cliff ledge). Talking doesn't count against your actions.

If you try to attack multiple people at once you must have a good explanation for being able to do so and have it approved by the GM. If you get this approved, you take an accumulative -1 penalty to all your attack rolls per person after the first you try to hit.

Making an attack has a DC and a "success" or "failure." Defeating a foe is merely based on a number of successful hits required to defeat them. What's neat about this is GMs set these DCs based on a foe's archetype and even their personality. For example, if a foe is a fearless warrior then manipulating his mind through fear or demoralization will have a high DC as will trying to stun him or shock his metabolic system. However, his pride may get in the way and charming him or surrendering and begging for mercy or bribing him may be more useful and have lower DCs. They may even allow you to overcome the foe with less checks. It's all based on the character design. This is called resistances and weaknesses which are assigned based on a character's personality and particular traits. Resistances and weaknesses range on a scale (minor ±2, major ±4, extreme ±6). Typically a character has a weakness of equal degree for every resistance they have.

Some DCs are just obstacles to get the chance to make another DC. For example, hitting a foe that dodges a lot of blows is difficult (DC15) but knocking him out once you hit may be easy if they're fragile (DC5). So you'll swing with your blade over and over, miss and miss until you finally hit against his evasive ways (DC15) and once you do you can then make a check against his toughness instead to represent how hard you hit him (DC5).

DIFFICULTY CLASSES
DC0 sometimes circumstance create crazy penalties that make things we take for granted, difficult. These are those times.
DC5 is something that any idiot could do. More like EC than DC. Am I right?
DC10 is average. Nothing difficult.
DC15 is difficult but if you're a professional this should be no problem.
DC20 is tough, even professionals have a little trouble but they get it done.
DC25 this is incredibly difficult. Professionals strive for this degree of awesomeness.
DC30 This is where professionals become worldwide masters of their art.
DC35 World masters strive to achieve this degree of awesomeness.
DC40 this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Witnessing a check like this will be a story you tell your grandchildren before they call you a crazy old person.

DEFEATING FOES
The typical "template" is that foes can be defeated in 1, 3 or 10 successful checks depending on how powerful they are. 1's are minions, cannon fodder. 3's are elites and 10's are boss fights.

GMs for the most part make generalizations about what DCs constitute an NPC, monster, trap or other obstacle but only inform the players of the obvious and whatever they figure out through roleplay and clever investigation. Combat is more about players "figuring out" what works against an enemy rather than raw stats. GMs shouldn't be too picky though, it is supposed to be fun.

GMs may even keep players on their toes by increasing a particular DC by 2 every time a successful check is used against an enemy with the same type of skill or combat rank. This forces players to try to target other aspects of an enemy instead of just beating on them with the same action over and over again. The duration of this increase should be short, perhaps just a few rounds (1d4+1 rounds for example).

Players can be defeated too. Typically, if 3 or more successful checks are made against a character in the same encounter, they are defeated. If they have allies that are nearby this usually doesn't kill them but does incapacitate them somehow. If a character is attacked or drawn into another obstacle, trap or environmental hazard while incapacitated, then that typically kills them though there may be exceptions based on circumstances. Players can attempt to remove these checks against other characters through skill checks that may be helpful instead of detrimental. A player that no longer has 3 or more successful checks against them is no longer incapacitated.

ENCOUNTER BUILDING
Each encounter should have an accumulative amount of enemies, traps and hazardous environments totaling no more skill points and combat points than between half and 1.5 times the accumulative skill points and combat points of the party. Other than that, sky's the limit on how GMs want to build encounters.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:20, Wed 07 June 2023.
Arkrim
GM, 123 posts
Tue 8 Apr 2014
at 13:07
  • msg #2

Re: d20 - Easy Game


SCHMUCK MCGOBLIN
CR: 1 (you need 1 successful check to beat Schmuck)
PA: +1     PD: +2 (DC 12)
MA: +0     MD: +0 (DC 10)

Bully: +2
Liar: +2
Perception: +2
Pick-pocket: +2
Runner: +2
Stealth: +2

About Schmuck: Schmuck McGoblin is a simple goblin living a gobliny life amongst goblins. He's not all that bright or that strong but like all goblins he's quick and he's cowardly unless he's got an advantage. He also likes shiny things.


GOBLIN WARRIOR
CR: 3 (you need 3 successful checks to beat Goblin Warrior)
PA: +2     PD: +3 (DC 13)
MA: +0     MD: +1 (DC 11)

Bully: +4
Liar: +4
Perception: +4
Pick-pocket: +4
Runner: +4
Stealth: +4

About Warrior: Goblin warrior used to just be a goblin schmuck. Then he found a dagger and a bucket he could put on his head and call it armor and got bold. Now he's a schmuck with some gusto.


GOBO MCGOBLINGTON OF GOBLINIA, KING OF THE GOBLINS
CR: 10 (you need 10 successful checks to beat Gobo)
PA: +3     PD: +5 (DC 16)
MA: +2     MD: +2 (DC 13)

Bully: +8
Liar: +8
Perception: +8
Pick-pocket: +8
Runner: +8
Stealth: +8

Krown of the Goblin King: Once per encounter you can place a bet or wager against your enemies and ask them what they think you're going to do next. The first three guesses (regardless if they all come from the same person or from multiple people) are the only ones counted. If you do not take the course of action the others are assuming you're going to take you automatically achieve a 20 on your next roll. If guesses are vague like "move" or ridiculous like "continue to exist" or "breathe" they don't count. If no guesses are made before your next turn, you automatically succeed.

Skill Monkey Dagger: +2 to any one skill of choice. Once chosen the skill choice cannot be changed for the rest of the encounter. Skill bonus cannot be used outside of combat.

About Gobo: Gobo is cowardly but prideful and obsessed with trinkets. He possesses only minor magic but has been in enough fights to know how to tango. Any attempts to try and manipulate his mind through compassion will be difficult (+4 Mental Defense). If someone explicitly appeals to his ego through flattery or bribery he is far more susceptible (-4 Mental Defense). Any attempts to knock him silly will be average unless someone has an unavoidable attack that shocks the metabolic system like a gas bomb or flash grenade (-4 Physical Defense). Also, if he gets pinned down and can't dodge, weave, hide or jump around he suffers this penalty as well. Players will notice he's quick so they'll have to think of a way to stop him other than just bashing him with a sword.

This message was last edited by the GM at 06:21, Wed 26 Feb 2020.
Cassus
player, 1 post
Tue 15 Apr 2014
at 04:10
  • msg #3

Re: d20 - Easy Game

Howdy!

I like the idea of simple systems.  I've tried a few myself.  This one is fairly straightforward on a d20 instead of the "fistful of d6/d10" that most simple systems I know use.  And the interlocking maximums certainly encourage some balance in character development

I do worry, though, that this system is rather "swingy" as written given the low number of checks it takes to incapacitate someone of any level.


Watch:
Invincible Sword Princess has a +10 physical attack and +6 physical defense, meaning that she's (if I understand correctly) spent a minimum of 34 points on her combat skills alone.  That represents a little over 30 sessions' worth of character advancement, right?  So she's a pretty skillful lass.
Cassus the Puling has a +2 PA and +1 PD, meaning that he's a starting character.

ISP has a 100% chance of hitting Cassus (well, 95%, but I'm granting her immunity to critical failure because it makes the math easier).  Cassus has a 35% chance of hitting ISP.  Clearly, Cassus is at a disadvantage.
Let's tilt things even further.  Cassus is now a Minion (CR 1).  ISP is a player character (CR 3, effectively).  Cassus has no power skills; ISP doesn't have a need for them
The princess now seems immortal.  And indeed, she is guaranteed to kill Cassus and take (at most) one wound herself.

But minions never travel alone.  Let's see what happens if Cassus has some friends with the same stats as he does...
If Cassus is one of 4 loyal minions (I start here so that I can assume ISP kills someone at the start of each round), they have a better than 10% chance of killing Invincible Sword Princess before she kills them all.  She's the odds-on favorite, but she's facing a real risk (as anyone who's played with Arcane Spell Failure 10% knows).

If Cassus is one of 11 street toughs, I'm to lazy to find their exact chance of incapacitating her, but these ladykillers have a 98% chance of winning in the first round!  And that's assuming our amazing warrior goes first.



So what do you think?  Is that how it's supposed to work?  It seems very... gritty... to have a strong character risking her life facing Schmuck Mcgoblin!

You may want to consider "scaling" player CRs (or at least warning prospective GMs that even a small crowd of low-end opponents is extremely dangerous unless the PCs have sufficient terrain advantage to keep most of the enemies from attacking).

At the other end of the spectrum...  Any ideas on how to have a "CR 1/4" system?  I like players' first few fights in a new system to be fairly easy while they're still learning the mechanics, you see.

And while I'm asking questions, is there an advantage to using higher-level spells?  Or would the GM be expected to tell players that they need to "a minimum of a 3rd level spell" (etc) to get their Power Bonus against a specific obstacle?

Ah!  And some form of perception system might be good too.  I hesitate to add more rules, but I know a lot of players will want to find out whether an enemy's PDC or MDC is higher without spending a long time on trial-and-error.  Plus it'd make another archetype ("lowish-stat guy who spots weak points") playable.
Arkrim
GM, 153 posts
Tue 15 Apr 2014
at 05:13
  • msg #4

Re: d20 - Easy Game

In reply to Cassus (msg # 3):

Welcome!

You bring up a good point, but I don't think your math is solid. You may have missed the cap portion.

34 combat points?

Max is 2 + (1.5 x lowest rank).

So a +10 physical attack would require a +5 in all other combat ranks (25 points, not 34, but let's say +9/+5/+5/+5 for 24 points for now since that divides more easily). Or maybe 28 points if you round down.

Assuming all players and enemies have equal points and that there are 2 minions per 1 player and that the challenge is "average", then that's 12 points per minion. A minion similarly specialized would have +5/+3/+2/+2. At +2 vs. +9 (lowest stat vs. highest stat), your ratios are 35% difference, not 100%+. Which is an advantage a hero should have against an AVERAGE minion fight shouldn't they?

I suppose a GM could make it 4 minions per player, but at that point you're intentionally making the things complete and utter cannon fodder (for whatever reason) and at 4 attacks at +0 vs. 2 attacks at +2, it may even get a bit more dangerous for any character that hasn't bought an AoE skill.

"Defeated" here should be more explained. It merely means that you're temporarily incapacitated, not knocked out or killed. Maybe you're stuck in the mud, caught in a web, lost in the maze, fumbling with your weapon, disoriented or unable to make a decision and just sit their anxiously. Defeat for one player is a temporary hindrance. Other players can snap them out of it, break them out of it, or help them back up with a single successful check to "bring them back" in whatever fashion the GM deems appropriate. However, if everyone is defeated at once or if a character did something that flagrantly ends in their death upon a failure (jump off of cliff trying to catch the birdie), that would pose a problem. In which case, character deaths DO happen sometimes...




Cassus:
At the other end of the spectrum...  Any ideas on how to have a "CR 1/4" system?  I like players' first few fights in a new system to be fairly easy while they're still learning the mechanics, you see.

Give the monsters less points. I usually say 50-150% of what the party has. 50% for easy fights, 100% for average fights and 150% for difficult fights. Always make sure that there are never more than 1 elite per 2 players and never more than 1 boss in any fight. Minions are wild cards. Have at them as long as you have the points.

Cassus:
And while I'm asking questions, is there an advantage to using higher-level spells?  Or would the GM be expected to tell players that they need to "a minimum of a 3rd level spell" (etc) to get their Power Bonus against a specific obstacle?

Spells get stronger the higher level they go. You use the spells in the traditional d20 games as a starting point of flavor text. Being able to cast a Storm of Vengeance is a bigger deal than being able to cast a simple Fireball. Even though your attack may be the same +10 or +20, you gain massive areas, # of creatures, distances and effects that you can create that creatures without such a skill simply aren't capable of to begin with.

If you wanted a powerful wizard, most all your skills would be devoted to various magic schools.

If you wanted a specialized wizard, say a Necromancer, Intimidate, Necromancy, Summoning, and Leadership would be good skills to have as your top 4.

Cassus:
Ah!  And some form of perception system might be good too.  I hesitate to add more rules, but I know a lot of players will want to find out whether an enemy's PDC or MDC is higher without spending a long time on trial-and-error.  Plus it'd make another archetype ("lowish-stat guy who spots weak points") playable.

Perception vs. Stealth skills seem pretty straightforward.
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:25, Tue 15 Apr 2014.
Cassus
player, 4 posts
Tue 15 Apr 2014
at 05:42
  • msg #5

Re: d20 - Easy Game

Hmmm...  Yeah, the 34 was a mistake; I noticed that you need a 6 to have a +10 (which I picked to get that "100%" hit chance vs DC 11) and decided that 4 skill at 6 and a skill at 10 was 34... I should probably sleep soon.

Arkrim:
I suppose a GM could make it 4 minions per player, but at that point you're intentionally making the things complete and utter cannon fodder (for whatever reason) and at 4 attacks at +0 vs. 2 attacks at +2, it may even get a bit more dangerous for any character that hasn't bought an AoE skill.

That's...  mostly my point.  Because of the d20's range, it's -at least- as terrifying to face 10 angry 3-points villagers as it is to face a dragon (where "dragon" means "something with 150% of your points").  Unless you can take out most of them with a single fireball before they get to act, those villagers have a pretty good chance of scoring the three hits they need to kill you.

Of course, a wizard could start the battle invisible, then unload the mayhem on the village.  But he'd be in trouble if the villagers started combat... or if he was a swordsman.  Come, let's strike a blow for systematic sword/spell equality!

Arkrim:
Cassus:
Ah!  And some form of perception system might be good too.  I hesitate to add more rules, but I know a lot of players will want to find out whether an enemy's PDC or MDC is higher without spending a long time on trial-and-error.  Plus it'd make another archetype ("lowish-stat guy who spots weak points") playable.


Perception vs. Stealth skills seem pretty straightforward.

To clarify, I'm not talking about a Perception system to spot the guy sneaking up behind you.  I'm talking about a Perception system to determine (apart from trial and error) whether the ichor-robed Thing that you're about to ambush has higher PDC or MDC.
Do you mean that monsters should roll Stealth to hide their weaknesses?  Or just spin "spot weakness" and "hide weakness" off into two new skills?
Arkrim
GM, 155 posts
Tue 15 Apr 2014
at 05:47
  • msg #6

Re: d20 - Easy Game

In reply to Cassus (msg # 5):

"3 hits to kill you"

I think you're still missing the point of the defeat system. 3 hits is to temporarily disable you unless you're in a situation that ABSOLUTELY has no other outcome than your immediate and inevitable demise (which if a GM does that often and in combination with a difficult encounter, they clearly have no love for you). 10 angry villagers would probably tie you up to a stake or have your neck put in a noose for public execution. Which would give you an execution encounter to avoid the grisly fate. Most of those "easy losses" only wind up putting you in another encounter that may be less desirable to your current goals as opposed to insta-death.




"Angry dragon vs. 10 villagers"

Area-Effectors laugh in the face of hordes of enemies but are easily swallowed up by big beasts.

Heavy-hitters laugh in the face of big beasts and are subsequently pummeled to death by hordes of enemies.

Specialization is fun.




You'll have to expand on what you mean by hiding weaknesses. You're talking apples at an orange convention at the moment.
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:49, Tue 15 Apr 2014.
Cassus
player, 5 posts
Tue 15 Apr 2014
at 06:03
  • msg #7

Re: d20 - Easy Game

Hmmm...  Okay...  It's definitely normal for a Lite system to require the GM to work hard to keep individual die rolls from killing the players.  I can work with that.
So it's your philosophy that the consequences of losing against an Elite/Boss should be higher than the consequences of losing against minions/cannon fodder to compensate for the advantages minions have in combat?




I can see how a warrior-type would struggle more against a group than against an individual--
Warrior-- I swing my Sword of PA +10 at the dragon!  Hiyaah!
GM-- Okay, you beat the Dragon's PDC and inflict 1 wound.
*
Warrior-- I swing my sword at the villager!
GM-- Okay, you take out one of the villagers.  The other ten mob you and disarm you.

But how is a wizard weakened when fighting single enemies?
Wizard-- I cast Fireball on the villagers!
GM-- Okay, most of them die.
*
Wizard-- I cast Lightning Bolt at the dragon with my MA +10!  Boom!
GM-- Okay, you beat the Dragon's MDC and inflict 1 wound.

Since skills (spells) and combat stats are increased separately (and at the same rate for warriors and wizards), what does someone who defines their attack as "an AoE" lose that someone who defines their attack as "a hard punch" keeps?




Okay.  Do players know the stats of monsters in this system before they fight them?  I'm assuming "no."  If "Yes," then this really is moot.  Here's the scenario I'm trying to address.
Player 1 says, "Does it look like I'll be able to do more damage with a fireball or with a sword?"
Do you say,
A) "You're not sure.  Try both and see."
B) "Well... hmmm...  I guess based on your backstory you'd know that trolls really hate fire and have a better PDC than MDC."
C) "Roll X at a difficulty of Y and I'll tell you."
Arkrim
GM, 156 posts
Tue 15 Apr 2014
at 12:45
  • msg #8

Re: d20 - Easy Game

In reply to Cassus (msg # 7):

It's more like "losing" is simply having yourself "down but not out" unless you're in a situation that the GM cannot story-wise justify you surviving. If a big monster KOs you, you may have simply been thrown back by the force of its step and knocked your head on a rock and fallen unconscious. You may be alive somewhere inside the belly of the beast and awaken to a whole adventure of escaping said intestines. You may simply pass out from the force of the spell or be entangled in debris.

The only time a party should really "die" is if the GM thinks it's the appropriate time for you to die. Otherwise a loss is simply a temporary down and out for a while. The duration of times depends on the scene at hand. If its a combat scene, being knocked unconscious for a few rounds makes sense. If it's a long drawn-out scene across hours of time, you may be unconscious for hours. It's all up to the GM to determine. It is a very LITE system.




Cleave. Great Cleave. Whirlwind.

You can easily apply the spell idea to feats. Remember, they are starting points for ideas, not set in stone rules.

Lite game. LITE.




That's up to GM discretion to describe the monster as more "flammable or sliceable" in that scenario. Such things may be hidden for a story reason or maybe there's a particular skill check needed to figure out its weaknesses.
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