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d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training.

Posted by ArkrimFor group 0
Arkrim
GM, 267 posts
Tue 9 Dec 2014
at 14:27
  • msg #43

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

Yes. That's sort of the idea.

I'm trying to make skills very ability based. The rank is essentially meaningless except to describe how far along into a feat tree you are essentially.

It makes it "video-game-like" in nature, but I like that aspect of the skills.
steelsmiter
player, 79 posts
Tue 9 Dec 2014
at 17:36
  • msg #44

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

I like video game designs as you may or may not be able to tell. Incidentally, I once had a rules set resolved with a d20 that I wanted to emulate Dynasty Warriors (at the time, it was 5XL) and even expanded it to include a zombie apocalypse game kinda inspired by L4D. People were too hung up on "standard d20" for it to work though. If I'd used any other dice for resolution they wouldn't have been so weirded out by it.
Arkrim
GM, 268 posts
Wed 10 Dec 2014
at 02:24
  • msg #45

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

Me too. I'm not as familiar with a lot of the games as I used to be but I really like games that can bleed between the worlds with video game and tabletop (if that makes any sense).

I'm pretty sure what I'm doing can be applied to non-d20 games. I'm just starting with d20 (I usually do) because it's probably the single most popular tabletop. Whitewolf probably comes in second but I never liked "pool" games. Too many dice.
This message was last edited by the GM at 02:26, Wed 10 Dec 2014.
Arkrim
GM, 269 posts
Thu 11 Dec 2014
at 03:36
  • msg #46

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

You know I was just thinking...by creating a Combat and a Magic skill, you could essentially eliminate classes this way and make the whole game just skill point-based without throwing everything out of whack (balance wise).

You'd just give everyone the same amount of skill points, balance the skill categories between the basic archetypes (mage, rogue, warrior) and let people use skill ranks to advance their abilities.
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:37, Thu 11 Dec 2014.
steelsmiter
player, 80 posts
Thu 11 Dec 2014
at 04:46
  • msg #47

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

Arkrim:
You know I was just thinking...by creating a Combat and a Magic skill, you could essentially eliminate classes this way and make the whole game just skill point-based without throwing everything out of whack (balance wise).

There's a lot of ways you could eliminate classes, but this is certainly the most unique. Eclipse the Codex Persona is a complete overhaul for example.

quote:
You'd just give everyone the same amount of skill points, balance the skill categories between the basic archetypes (mage, rogue, warrior) and let people use skill ranks to advance their abilities.

Would you make hit dice BAB and saves be purchaseable too? I mainly ask because varied skill levels is supposed to be a balancer.
Arkrim
GM, 270 posts
Thu 11 Dec 2014
at 06:26
  • msg #48

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

I never liked BAB or HD to begin with. I suppose I could just give everyone average and find another way to allow archetypes to appear.

Or I could just limit everyone to 3 class archetypes (mage, rogue, warrior) and let the details beyond that appear through skill allocation and ability selection.

Not sure which method would work better in combination with this type of skill building.
steelsmiter
player, 81 posts
Thu 11 Dec 2014
at 06:40
  • msg #49

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

Well, Eclipse the Codex Persona gives a Warcraft skill, which replaces BAB, and they let you purchase your HD individually each level. I think d4s are free. It allows players to pretty much do whatever they want in terms of skills, abilities, and stuff like that. I've seen a few builds with 1 level of a pretty big HD, followed by multiple levels of d4s accompanied by a variety of other stuff.
Arkrim
GM, 271 posts
Thu 11 Dec 2014
at 14:23
  • msg #50

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

BESM d20 had something like that too. I don't like that much insanity lacking archetypes altogether. There needs to be at least some structure to the base stats.

But if you were to do something like that with this unique skill system, a MARTIAL COMBAT skill would grant you a bonus HP and a new weapon, armor or shield proficiency proficiency each rank (or weapon focus, armor focus or shield focus or exotic weapon proficiency or improved unarmed strike).

MAGIC skills would probably be split up by schools of magic and grant you a new spell each rank (as well as additional uses per day in total).

The only trouble is the saving throws.
steelsmiter
player, 82 posts
Thu 11 Dec 2014
at 19:36
  • msg #51

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

Arkrim:
BESM d20 had something like that too. I don't like that much insanity lacking archetypes altogether. There needs to be at least some structure to the base stats.

Alright.

quote:
But if you were to do something like that with this unique skill system, a MARTIAL COMBAT skill would grant you a bonus HP and a new weapon, armor or shield proficiency proficiency each rank (or weapon focus, armor focus or shield focus or exotic weapon proficiency or improved unarmed strike).

Well, I like the idea of specifically gaining individual weapon proficiencies. It allows people to only use a daisho for example (at least that's what I think they call the Katana Wakizashi pair) and be really good at it. Or use All Axes. Maybe you could do 3 proficiencies allows the purchase of all weapons in a category (handaxe, battleaxe, great axe for example allows the 4th axe to be All Axes).

So under this system would you issue flat HP per level of Martial Combat?

quote:
MAGIC skills would probably be split up by schools of magic and grant you a new spell each rank (as well as additional uses per day in total).

The only trouble is the saving throws.

I like this instead of having just one Spellcraft and calling it a day.
LoreGuard
GM, 34 posts
Thu 11 Dec 2014
at 21:00
  • msg #52

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

Role-master had a skill-ability that was called body development.  Allow upping your dice potentially be a feature of increasing such a skill.

Adding widening to a new school or weapon can be another option one could choose, or they can choose a to do something special with what they already know.

Posting from phone so may be a bit bare.
Arkrim
GM, 273 posts
Sat 13 Dec 2014
at 16:37
  • msg #53

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

I merged Knowledge & Divination as the skill vs. magic would be redundant doing the same thing. I also merged Enchantment & Persuasion for the same reason. I'm considering merging Crafts and Conjuration as well.

So this is what we're looking at so far... missing anything? It'd be nice if I could get this to a solid 20 skills but 15 is also okay.

  1. ATHLETICS (acrobatics, climb, fly, swim)
  2. AWARENESS (perception, sense motive)
  3. COMBAT (every weapon/armor/shield proficiency/focus feat, improved combat maneuver feat)
  4. CONJURATION (conjuration spells and Spellcraft/Knowledge (arcana)/Use Magic device)
  5. CRAFTS (craft: all of them)
  6. ENCHANTMENT (enchantment spells, Diplomacy, Perform and Spellcraft/Knowledge (arcana)/Use Magic device)
  7. EVOCATION (evocation spells and Spellcraft/Knowledge (arcana)/Use Magic device)
  8. ILLUSION (illusion spells and Spellcraft/Knowledge (arcana)/Use Magic device)
  9. INTIMIDATE (intimidate, fear)
  10. KNOWLEDGE (divination, Spellcraft/knowledge: all of them/Linguistics, Use Magic Device)
  11. MEDICINE (healing, craft pharmaceuticals)
  12. NECROMANCY (necromancy spells and Spellcraft/Knowledge (arcana)/Use Magic device)
  13. SUBTERFUGE (bluff, disguise, escape artist, sleight of hand, stealth)
  14. SURVIVAL (knowledge nature, knowledge geography, navigation, handle animal, ride, survival)
  15. TRANSMUTATION (transmutation spells and Spellcraft/Knowledge (arcana)/Use Magic device)

This message was last edited by the GM at 16:44, Sat 13 Dec 2014.
steelsmiter
player, 86 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 00:16
  • msg #54

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

Arkrim:
I merged Knowledge & Divination as the skill vs. magic would be redundant doing the same thing. I also merged Enchantment & Persuasion for the same reason. I'm considering merging Crafts and Conjuration as well.

So this is what we're looking at so far... missing anything? It'd be nice if I could get this to a solid 20 skills but 15 is also okay.

  1. ATHLETICS (acrobatics, climb, fly, swim)
  2. AWARENESS (perception, sense motive)
  3. COMBAT (every weapon/armor/shield proficiency/focus feat, improved combat maneuver feat)
  4. CONJURATION (conjuration spells and Spellcraft/Knowledge (arcana)/Use Magic device)
  5. CRAFTS (craft: all of them)
  6. ENCHANTMENT (enchantment spells, Diplomacy, Perform and Spellcraft/Knowledge (arcana)/Use Magic device)
  7. EVOCATION (evocation spells and Spellcraft/Knowledge (arcana)/Use Magic device)
  8. ILLUSION (illusion spells and Spellcraft/Knowledge (arcana)/Use Magic device)
  9. INTIMIDATE (intimidate, fear)
  10. KNOWLEDGE (divination, Spellcraft/knowledge: all of them/Linguistics, Use Magic Device)
  11. MEDICINE (healing, craft pharmaceuticals)
  12. NECROMANCY (necromancy spells and Spellcraft/Knowledge (arcana)/Use Magic device)
  13. SUBTERFUGE (bluff, disguise, escape artist, sleight of hand, stealth)
  14. SURVIVAL (knowledge nature, knowledge geography, navigation, handle animal, ride, survival)
  15. TRANSMUTATION (transmutation spells and Spellcraft/Knowledge (arcana)/Use Magic device)

Well, you could separate Perform, Bluff, and Disguise into Acting, or perhaps Theatre.

You could separate the Animal Handling skills back out of survival.

You could make Linguistics its own skill (Perhaps adding idiomatic knowledge of each language as an in between step, so 1 point gets you a language, 2 gets you idioms in that language, 3 gets you a second language, 4 idioms in the second language, and so on).

Adding Profession back in might not seem too useful, but it'll bring you closer to 20.

That's 19. I can't figure out how to tease 1 more out of the list.
Arkrim
GM, 275 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 00:34
  • msg #55

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

In reply to steelsmiter (msg # 54):

I didn't want to do any separation. That'd get more specific and messy. I was just curious if there were any aspects of the game I completely missed that I could add in. I figured there's always something I would miss and was curious if anyone thought of something else. Looking at it again, all I can really think of are "all those feats and class features" which all inevitably fall into one of these categories.

I did forget ABJURATION though. I suppose I could add 4 more by adding in the 3 saving throws and ARMOR CLASS as skills to grant people special defenses. Seems balanced but also seems weird and awkward.
This message was last edited by the GM at 00:35, Sun 14 Dec 2014.
steelsmiter
player, 88 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 00:46
  • msg #56

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

Adding Abjuration is a plus, but one of the things that weirds me out about the current list is that Enchantment has Diplomacy and Perform.

Instead of adding Armor Class, you could add Armor Proficiency. The first few levels get rid non-proficiency for light, medium, and heavy armor, as well as shields. After that it's down to reducing check penalties as well as spell failure. Either staggered, or in that order.

Regarding saves, I do think they would be a clunky add in.
Arkrim
GM, 276 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 01:10
  • msg #57

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

In reply to steelsmiter (msg # 56):

I don't see the Enchantment as an issue. Afterall, the only difference between Enchantment and Diplomacy is magical vs. nonmagical. I suppose on that note I could clump Intimidate in with it. But then, I might as well just name it Charisma and call it a day.

Armor proficiency would get limited really quick. Perhaps "Defense" would make sense. That way we could include all the feats and abilities that allow you to boost AC, TAC, CMD and FFAC.

WILLPOWER and FORTITUDE might work since there are so many different resistances and effects that could work with those saving throws. However, Reflex would probably just get tied in as a part of DEFENSE.

That would leave us with...

  1. ABJURATION
  2. ATHLETICS
  3. AWARENESS
  4. COMBAT
  5. CONJURATION
  6. CRAFTS
  7. DEFENSE
  8. ENCHANTMENT
  9. EVOCATION
  10. FORTITUDE
  11. ILLUSION
  12. KNOWLEDGE
  13. MEDICINE
  14. NECROMANCY
  15. SUBTERFUGE
  16. SURVIVAL
  17. TRANSMUTATION
  18. WILLPOWER


Looks pretty solid. You see any obvious problems with it or anything we're missing from a d20 game that absolutely can't fall into one of these categories?
steelsmiter
player, 90 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 01:13
  • msg #58

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

Arkrim:
In reply to steelsmiter (msg # 56):

I don't see the Enchantment as an issue.

ok.

quote:
Looks pretty solid. You see any obvious problems

Yes, but they've already been discarded.
This message was lightly edited by the player at 01:14, Sun 14 Dec 2014.
Arkrim
GM, 277 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 01:14
  • msg #59

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

In reply to steelsmiter (msg # 58):

What's been discarded?
steelsmiter
player, 91 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 01:14
  • msg #60

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

quote:
Armor proficiency would get limited really quick. Perhaps "Defense" would make sense. That way we could include all the feats and abilities that allow you to boost AC, TAC, CMD and FFAC.

WILLPOWER and FORTITUDE might work since there are so many different resistances and effects that could work with those saving throws. However, Reflex would probably just get tied in as a part of DEFENSE.

I do like this though.
steelsmiter
player, 92 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 01:19
  • msg #61

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

Arkrim:
In reply to steelsmiter (msg # 58):

What's been discarded?

the "non issue" with Enchantment. Incidentally, lumping Diplomacy in with Intimidate would be better named Coercion, or Negotiation. And I'd still throw in a Theatrics type skill with Perform and the ones from Subterfuge that would equally fit there. It would bring the total to 19.
Arkrim
GM, 279 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 01:32
  • msg #62

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

In reply to steelsmiter (msg # 61):

Ah. No, I don't want to get MORE specific. I'm trying to get LESS. Hmmm.

Theatrics would not have enough abilities tied to it to justify the skill, though I agree that Perform can be equally found in Enchantment, Illusion and Subterfuge.

I don't think abilities popping up in multiple skills is a problem. I think a little bleed is okay because the sheer massive number of abilities will still allow someone to max out two abilities and never be able to select them all.

These skills can actually eliminate the need for ability scores as well (STR, CON, DEX, WIS, INT, CHA) and base bonuses (BAB, Caster Level, Refl, Fort, Will, Skill Rank). You can use your "rank" to determine your BAB, Caster Level, Skill Rank and Base Save for a feat and use (rank x 2) + 10 to determine your effective ability score for a feat. This can determine prerequisites.

And I could set the max rank to 5 + 1/2 level and give all character 3 skill points per level. This allows them to work at maxing out a few skills at first and at higher levels they can start becoming more versatile so that even nonmagical classes start grabbing spells (epic characters to godlike characters).

Heck, this may eliminate the need for class & other forms of advancement altogether. You just start with a race, archetype and gain 5 hit points per level (maybe start with some bonus HP at 1st level to give it a video gamey feel).

Your species give you skill rank boosts as well as predetermined abilities that come with it. For example, a Gnome's "Speak with Animals" ability would give them: +1 rank in Survival and they can cast Speak with Animals as a spell-like ability.

You have spell points per day equal to your rank in the spell skill * 5. The higher the spell level, the more spell points it consumes. (0 = 0, 1st = 1, 2nd = 3, 3rd = 6, 4th = 10, 5th = 15, 6th = 21, 7th = 28, 8th = 36, 9 = 45). Highest level spell you can learn is equal to 1/2 your rank (rounded down).
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:39, Sun 14 Dec 2014.
steelsmiter
player, 94 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 02:18
  • msg #63

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

Arkrim:
In reply to steelsmiter (msg # 61):

Ah. No, I don't want to get MORE specific. I'm trying to get LESS. Hmmm.

Then why bother to add how you'd like to get it to 20 skills?

quote:
Theatrics would not have enough abilities tied to it to justify the skill.

Oh really?

quote:
AWARENESS (perception, sense motive)

quote:
you could separate Perform, Bluff, and Disguise

By that logic, you don't need Awareness. I very strongly think you do need awareness though.

quote:
I agree that Perform can be equally found in Enchantment, Illusion and Subterfuge.

You'll be agreeing with something I never said then. My whole problem is the inclusion of skills unrelated to magic, in magic.

quote:
These skills can actually eliminate the need for ability scores as well (STR, CON, DEX, WIS, INT, CHA)

Pass.

quote:
And I could set the max rank to 5 + 1/2 level and give all character 3 skill points per level.

Neat.

quote:
even nonmagical classes start grabbing spells (epic characters to godlike characters).

...ick. More specifically, why cut out regular characters from essentially multi-classing (note that as a point based system player, I don't like d20 multiclassing anyway.)

quote:
Heck, this may eliminate the need for class & other forms of advancement altogether.

Indeed. It does in practice with other point based systems I'm aware of.

quote:
You just start with a race, archetype and gain 5 hit points per level (maybe start with some bonus HP at 1st level to give it a video gamey feel).

That's part of the reason for not eliminating attributes in my opinion. You could start with 9-10 per level with the right race. You could then make Attributes Point Buy and give say... 2 extra points on levels where players could normally raise an attribute.

quote:
You have spell points per day equal to your rank in the spell skill * 5. The higher the spell level, the more spell points it consumes. (0 = 0, 1st = 1, 2nd = 3, 3rd = 6, 4th = 10, 5th = 15, 6th = 21, 7th = 28, 8th = 36, 9 = 45). Highest level spell you can learn is equal to 1/2 your rank (rounded down).

Nifty.
Arkrim
GM, 280 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 02:55
  • msg #64

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

steelsmiter:
Arkrim:
In reply to steelsmiter (msg # 61):

Ah. No, I don't want to get MORE specific. I'm trying to get LESS. Hmmm.

Then why bother to add how you'd like to get it to 20 skills?

It was just a side note. Not super important.

quote:
Theatrics would not have enough abilities tied to it to justify the skill.

quote:
Oh really?

quote:
AWARENESS (perception, sense motive)

quote:
you could separate Perform, Bluff, and Disguise

quote:
By that logic, you don't need Awareness. I very strongly think you do need awareness though.

Incorrect as that presumption does not follow the logic. Awareness is not only more commonly useful in adventuring, there are far more awareness abilities in the game than there are exclusively "performance" based abilities. You could grab a dozen or so off the bard but you'll find over a hundred feats, spells, species traits and monster abilities that have to do with awareness.

quote:
I agree that Perform can be equally found in Enchantment, Illusion and Subterfuge.

quote:
You'll be agreeing with something I never said then. My whole problem is the inclusion of skills unrelated to magic, in magic.

Oh well, then your opinion is withdrawn and tossed aside in this matter. The Magic vs. Not Magic was never a concept I would even bother considering. It's a silly distinction in a high fantasy game. Maybe good for a scifi or LOW fantasy, but not high fantasy. Middle-fantasy would be arguable.

quote:
These skills can actually eliminate the need for ability scores as well (STR, CON, DEX, WIS, INT, CHA)

quote:
Pass.

You mean "no comment" as you have nothing useful to contribute on that topic? :P

quote:
And I could set the max rank to 5 + 1/2 level and give all character 3 skill points per level.

quote:
Neat.

Indeed.

quote:
even nonmagical classes start grabbing spells (epic characters to godlike characters).

quote:
...ick. More specifically, why cut out regular characters from essentially multi-classing (note that as a point based system player, I don't like d20 multiclassing anyway.)

Because there would be no classes...making it impossible to do otherwise? See following comments.

quote:
Heck, this may eliminate the need for class & other forms of advancement altogether.

quote:
Indeed. It does in practice with other point based systems I'm aware of.

Hurray for point systems.

quote:
You just start with a race, archetype and gain 5 hit points per level (maybe start with some bonus HP at 1st level to give it a video gamey feel).

quote:
That's part of the reason for not eliminating attributes in my opinion. You could start with 9-10 per level with the right race. You could then make Attributes Point Buy and give say... 2 extra points on levels where players could normally raise an attribute.

That's not a reason not to. You could just as easily use the skills. See previous comments.

quote:
You have spell points per day equal to your rank in the spell skill * 5. The higher the spell level, the more spell points it consumes. (0 = 0, 1st = 1, 2nd = 3, 3rd = 6, 4th = 10, 5th = 15, 6th = 21, 7th = 28, 8th = 36, 9 = 45). Highest level spell you can learn is equal to 1/2 your rank (rounded down).

quote:
Nifty.

I know, right? AND easy to remember. The exponential cost also encourages players to stick with low level magic unless they absolutely need it. But I suppose this can be tweaked in other ways as well.
steelsmiter
player, 96 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 07:08
  • msg #65

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

I think I've contributed all I can at this point. I might come back later.
Arkrim
GM, 283 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 07:33
  • msg #66

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

Yeah, I think I spent that whole last post just responding to you and not building on more of this homebrew. I'll update in a bit and keep expanding the skills.
Arkrim
GM, 284 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 07:39
  • msg #67

Re: d20 - Skill Points vs. Skill Training

No ability scores, classes, feats, etc. The only stats you keep track of are:

Hit Points: Start with 15, gain +3 per level up.

Skill Points: Start with 15, gain +3 per level up. You spend them to improve skill ranks and acquire special abilities.

Damage: Light weapon is 1d4 + half damage bonus, one-handed/medium weapon is 1d8 + damage bonus and two-handed/heavy weapon is 2d6 + (1.5 x damage bonus). Spell damage is determined normally, though your caster level is equal to your rank in the skill that you acquired.

AC: Your AC and TAC is equal to 10 + defense rank. Your FFAC is 5 + 1/2 defense rank.
Attack Bonus: Your attack bonus is equal to your Combat Rank, except with spells. Your damage bonus is also equal to this.
Spell Attack: Your attack bonus with spells is equal to the rank in the skill that you acquired the spell from. Your damage bonus is also equal to this. Your DCs for these spells are equal to 10 + your rank.
Fortitude: Your Fortitude bonus is equal to your Fortitude Rank.
Reflex: Your Reflex bonus is equal to your Defense Rank.
Will: Your Will bonus is equal to your Willpower Rank.

Ability Score: Any spell or item that normally adjusts an ability score, instead adjusts a special ability that creates the same effects. For example, Bull's Strength normally adds +4 Str, so instead it would add +4 to Damage Bonus with melee attacks or +2 Damage Bonus with melee attacks and +2 Athletics (Strength + Improved Strength). All such effects will add varying bonuses. Use GM discretion. Effects that normally deal ability damage instead deal penalties directly to AC, attack rolls, damage rolls and saving throws.

Old Skills: Any spell or item that normally adjusts a skill now just adds a bonus to ability checks made to perform the designated action. They don't actually adjust the skills listed here.

  1. ABJURATION
  2. ATHLETICS
  3. AWARENESS
  4. COMBAT
  5. CONJURATION
  6. CRAFTS
  7. DEFENSE
  8. ENCHANTMENT
  9. EVOCATION
  10. FORTITUDE
  11. ILLUSION
  12. KNOWLEDGE
  13. MEDICINE
  14. NECROMANCY
  15. SUBTERFUGE
  16. SURVIVAL
  17. TRANSMUTATION
  18. WILLPOWER

*Stackable

ABJURATION
-Abjurer (1): +2 to ability checks made to identify, craft or otherwise work with abjuration spells and magic items utilizing abjuration magic. This also applies as a +2 bonus to attack rolls made with abjuration spells, DCs of abjuration spells you cast, and saving throws you make against abjuration effects.
-Magic Feat (1): Acquire a wizard bonus feat of your choice (see wizard class's bonus feats). For prerequisites, treat your rank in this skill as your caster level and BAB. You can acquire only up to one of these feats from this skill per two spells you've acquired from it.
-Spell (1+): You acquire an Abjuration spell. The maximum spell level you can select is equal to your 1/2 your rank in this skill (round down). You cannot know more 1st level spells than 0 levels spells, or more 2nd level spells than 1st level spells and so on and so forth.


ATHLETICS
-Racer (1):* Add 5 feet to your base speed.
--Agile Run (2): You are not flat-footed when you run and don't take the normal -2 AC for charging.
---Sprinter (3):* You can run at x5 instead of x4 speed. Stacking adds +1 to this each time.
-Balance (1):* You gain a +2 bonus to Dexterity checks and saving throws made to overcome balancing on precarious surfaces.
--Improved Balance (2): You are not flat-footed while balancing on precarious surfaces.
---Greater Balance (3):* You can move +10 feet farther than normal when you balance on precarious surfaces (up to a maximum equal to your normal base speed).
-Climbing (1):* You gain a +2 bonus to Strength checks and saving throws made to overcome difficult climbing surfaces.
--Improved Climbing (2): You are not flat-footed while climbing.
---Greater Climbing (3):* You can move +10 feet farther than normal when you climb (up to a maximum equal to your normal base speed).
-Leaping (1):* You gain a +2 bonus to Dexterity checks and saving throws made to leap over obstacles or jump up to certain heights.
--Improved Leaping (2): You are always treated as having a running head start when you jump.
---Greater Leaping (3):* You can move +10 feet farther than normal when you jump (up to a maximum equal to your normal base speed).
-Strength (1):* Your carrying capacity doubles.
--Improved Strength (2): You are treated as one size larger for the purposes of combat maneuvers (if this is advantageous to you).
---Greater Strength (3):* You can wield weapons as if you were one size larger (if this is advantageous to you).
-Swimming (1):* You gain a +2 bonus to Strength checks and saving throws made to overcome difficult climbing surfaces.
--Improved Swimming (2): You are not flat-footed while swimming.
---Greater Swimming (3):* You can move +10 feet farther than normal when you swim.


AWARENESS
Divination Magic: This functions just like acquiring Abjuration spells. It does not work for acquiring Divination spells that don't target a creature or object nor does it work on divination magic that creates prophecies or acquires knowledge spontaneously (such as Augury or Legend Lore). Any divination spells in the Knowledge skill are excluded.
-Perceptive (1): +2 to Wisdom checks made to listen, search or spot hidden creatures, traps or objects.
-Farsight (1): Your sight range in any condition increases to double what it would normally be.
--Farshot (2): As the feat of the same name.
--Quick Scan (2): You can search locations in half the normal time necessary. If the search time is already only a full-round action, you can search twice as large of an area.
--Trap Sense (2): When you move within 10 feet of a trap, you can automatically make a Wisdom check to notice (or Intelligence check if you prefer). If you would normally already be granted such a check, you may roll twice and take the better of the two.
---Danger Sense (3): You gain 50% Fortification vs. Sneak Attacks.
Initiative: +2 to Dexterity checks made to determine turn order.
--Fast Reaction (2): You are not automatically flat-footed at the start of combat or during surprise rounds where you are surprised.
---Instant Reaction (3): You roll 2d20 for initiative and take the better result (instead of 1d20).
Insightful: +2 to Wisdom checks made to see through disguises and deceptions and saving throws to see through illusions.
--Detect Alignment (2): This functions as the spell of the same name. It can be used once per day per rank in Awareness.
----Zone of Truth (4): This functions as the spell of the same name. It can be used once per day per 2 ranks in Awareness.
------Discern Lies (6): This functions as the spell of the same name. It can be used once per day per 3 ranks in Awareness.


COMBAT
-Weapon Proficiency (1): You gain proficiency with all weapons in a single weapon category of your choice (see the Fighter class' weapon categories).
--Offensive Combat Feat (2): You can acquire an offensive combat feat. It can be any combat feat that does not provide a bonus or reroll to your AC or saving throws. For the purposes of prerequisites for these feats, your BAB & effective skill ranks are equal to your rank in this skill and your ability scores are all equal to 10 + (rank x2).
--Vicious Strength (2): Add both your Combat Rank and Athletics Rank together and divide the sum by 2. You can use this as your damage bonus for melee weapons instead of just your combat rank.


CONJURATION
-Conjurer (1): +2 to ability checks made to identify, craft or otherwise work with conjuration spells and magic items utilizing conjuration magic. This also applies as a +2 bonus to attack rolls made with conjuration spells, DCs of conjuration spells you cast, and saving throws you make against conjuration effects. Exception: This does not include any healing spells.
-Magic Feat (1): Acquire a wizard bonus feat of your choice (see wizard class's bonus feats). For prerequisites, treat your rank in this skill as your caster level and BAB. You can acquire only up to one of these feats from this skill per two spells you've acquired from it.
-Spell (1+): You acquire a Conjuration spell. The maximum spell level you can select is equal to your 1/2 your rank in this skill (round down). You cannot know more 1st level spells than 0 levels spells, or more 2nd level spells than 1st level spells and so on and so forth.


CRAFTS
(pick one craft): You gain +2 to Intelligence checks made to work with your selected field.
Master Crafter (1): You gain Master Crafter feat.
Efficient Crafter (2): You can craft, repair and redesign your selected craft with only half the normal cost.
Fast Crafter (2): You can craft, repair and redesign your selected craft in half the normal time.
Magic Item Creation Feat (X): You gain a creation feat provided you have a number of ranks in this skill equal to the minimum caster level requirement.
-Pack Rat (2): For the purposes of carrying capacity, you treat gear that you crafted yourself as half its actual weight.
---Come Prepared (3): You can pull small objects out of your pockets that were "there all along". This functions like the minor creation spell except that the quantity of materials is limited to your light load (requiring you to have a free hand to pull them out of your pockets). You can do this once per day per 2 ranks you have in Crafts.
----Jury Rig (4): You can jury rig a makeshift item. This functions as the Fabricate spell except that it requires a full-round action, has a range of 0 feet and it can target only a quantity of materials up to your light load (requiring you to have free hands to do this as well). You can do this once per day per 2 ranks you have in Crafts.
-----Major Creation (5): As the spell but limited in quantity equal to your light load and 0ft. range. Usable 1/day per 3 ranks in this skill.


DEFENSE
-Armor/Shield Proficiency (1): You gain proficiency with all armors and shields in a single category of your choice: Light Armor, Medium Armor, Heavy Armor, Shields.
--Defensive Combat Feat (2): You can acquire a defensive combat feat. It can be any combat feat that provides a bonus or reroll to your AC or saving throws. For the purposes of prerequisites for these feats, your BAB & effective skill ranks are equal to your rank in this skill and your ability scores are all equal to 10 + (rank x2).
-Unarmored Defense (1): So long as you do not wear armor or wield a shield, you gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC. You can still apply armor and shield enhancements to mundane clothes or weapons taking up your armor or shield slot.
--Improved Unarmored Defense (2): So long as you do not wear armor or wield a shield, you gain a +2 insight bonus to AC. You can still apply armor and shield enhancements to mundane clothes or weapons taking up your armor or shield slot.


ENCHANTMENT
-Enchanter (1): +2 to ability checks made to identify, craft or otherwise work with enchantment spells and magic items utilizing conjuration magic. This also applies as a +2 bonus to attack rolls made with enchantment spells, DCs of conjuration spells you cast, and saving throws you make against enchantment effects. Exception: This does not include any healing spells.
-Magic Feat (1): Acquire a wizard bonus feat of your choice (see wizard class's bonus feats). For prerequisites, treat your rank in this skill as your caster level and BAB. You can acquire only up to one of these feats from this skill per two spells you've acquired from it.
-Spell (1+): You acquire an Enchantment spell or spell with an emotion descriptor (such as [fear]). The maximum spell level you can select is equal to your 1/2 your rank in this skill (round down). You cannot know more 1st level spells than 0 levels spells, or more 2nd level spells than 1st level spells and so on and so forth.
-Persuasive (1):* You gain a +2 bonus to Charisma checks made to persuade targets and to the DCs of charm effects you create.
--Charm Person (2): This functions as the spell. You can use this 1/day per rank in this skill.
---Charming Aura (3): Against targets within 30 feet of you, you can use your Charm Person as a free action.
---Willful (3): You can make Persuasion check instead of Will save vs. charm effects. In addition, a successful save against a charm effect makes you immune to that same effect for 24 hours and has no effect on you (instead of reducing duration, its negated).
--Bless (2): This functions as the spell. You can use this 1/day per rank in this skill.
--Mass Persuasion (2):* You can persuade 2 targets with a normal check at a time at no penalty. In addition, you only take a -1 penalty per 2 targets you attempt to persuade at a time instead of per 1 target. This can stack each time adding 1 to the base number of targets and the number of targets you can add before taking penalties.
--Psychic (2): You can use INT or WIS instead of CHA to persuade.
--Graceful Save (3): When you achieve a natural 20 on a saving throw or when an enemy rolls a natural 1 on an attack roll against you, you can make a Persuade check as a free action to persuade a target.
--------Suggestion (8): This functions as the spell. You can use this 1/day per 4 ranks in this skill.
Intimidating (1):* You gain a +2 bonus to Charisma checks made to intimidate targets and to the DCs of fear effects you create.
-Cause Fear(2): This functions as the spell. You can use this 1/day per rank in this skill.
--Dread Aura (3): Against targets within 30 feet of you, you can use your Cause Fear as a free action.
---Dreadful (3): You can make Intimidate check instead of Will save vs. fear effects. In addition, a successful save against a fear effect makes you immune to that same effect for 24 hours and has no effect on you (instead of reducing duration, its negated).
-Doom (2): This functions as the spell. You can use this 1/day per rank in this skill.
-Mass Intimidate (2):* You can intimidate 2 targets with a normal check at a time at no penalty. In addition, you only take a -1 penalty per 2 targets you attempt to intimidate at a time instead of per 1 target. This can stack each time adding 1 to the base number of targets and the number of targets you can add before taking penalties.
-Muscle Mass (2): You can use STR or CON instead of CHA to intimidate.
--Gruesome Blow (3): When you achieve a critical hit, you can make an Intimidate check as a free action to intimidate a target.
--------Fear (8): This functions as the spell. You can use this 1/day per 4 ranks in this skill.
---------Fear Aura (9): Against targets within 30 feet of you, you can use your Fear as a free action.


EVOCATION
-Evocator (1): +2 to ability checks made to identify, craft or otherwise work with Evocation spells and magic items utilizing conjuration magic. This also applies as a +2 bonus to attack rolls made with Evocation spells, DCs of Evocation spells you cast, and saving throws you make against conjuration effects.
-Magic Feat (1): Acquire a wizard bonus feat of your choice (see wizard class's bonus feats). For prerequisites, treat your rank in this skill as your caster level and BAB. You can acquire only up to one of these feats from this skill per two spells you've acquired from it.
-Spell (1+): You acquire a Evocation spell. The maximum spell level you can select is equal to your 1/2 your rank in this skill (round down). You cannot know more 1st level spells than 0 levels spells, or more 2nd level spells than 1st level spells and so on and so forth.


FORTITUDE
-Condition Resistance (1):* You gain +2 to saving throws vs. one effect type (pick one).
-Damage Resistance (1):* You gain +5 resistance vs. one damage type (pick one).
-Endurance (1): You gain the Endurance feat. It only grants a +2 instead of +4 but it applies to saving throws against special attacks that create the effects it resists as well.
-Natural Armor (1):* You gain +1 natural armor.
-Toughness (1):* You gain +5 hit points.


ILLUSION
-Illusionist (1): +2 to ability checks made to identify, craft or otherwise work with Illusion spells and magic items utilizing conjuration magic. This also applies as a +2 bonus to attack rolls made with Illusion spells, DCs of Evocation spells you cast, and saving throws you make against conjuration effects.
-Magic Feat (1): Acquire a wizard bonus feat of your choice (see wizard class's bonus feats). For prerequisites, treat your rank in this skill as your caster level and BAB. You can acquire only up to one of these feats from this skill per two spells you've acquired from it.
-Spell (1+): You acquire an Illusion spell. The maximum spell level you can select is equal to your 1/2 your rank in this skill (round down). You cannot know more 1st level spells than 0 levels spells, or more 2nd level spells than 1st level spells and so on and so forth.


KNOWLEDGE
-Lore (1): +2 to ability checks made to identify, craft or otherwise work with knowledge spells and magic items utilizing knowledge magic. This also applies as a +2 bonus to attack rolls made with knowledge spells, DCs of knowledge spells you cast, and saving throws you make against knowledge effects. Knowledge spells are any divination spells that don't fall under the Awareness category.
-Magic Feat (1): Acquire a wizard bonus feat of your choice (see wizard class's bonus feats). For prerequisites, treat your rank in this skill as your caster level and BAB. You can acquire only up to one of these feats from this skill per two spells you've acquired from it.
-Spell (1+): You acquire a knowledge spell. Knowledge spells are any divination spells that don't fall under the Awareness category. The maximum spell level you can select is equal to your 1/2 your rank in this skill (round down). You cannot know more 1st level spells than 0 levels spells, or more 2nd level spells than 1st level spells and so on and so forth.


MEDICINE
Medicine (1):* You gain a +2 bonus to Wisdom checks made to perform first aid, surgery and remove/treat illness. This also applies to checks made to identify, craft or otherwise work with [healing] spells and magic items utilizing [healing] magic. This also applies as a +2 bonus to attack rolls made with Healing spells, DCs of Healing spells you cast, and saving throws you make against healing effects.
-Magic Feat (1): Acquire a wizard bonus feat of your choice (see wizard class's bonus feats). For prerequisites, treat your rank in this skill as your caster level and BAB. You can acquire only up to one of these feats from this skill per two spells you've acquired from it.
-Spell (1+): You acquire a [healing] spell. The maximum spell level you can select is equal to your 1/2 your rank in this skill (round down). You cannot know more 1st level spells than 0 levels spells, or more 2nd level spells than 1st level spells and so on and so forth.
--Combat Medic (2): You provoke no AoOs for performing first aid, surgery or casting healing spells.
--Healing Knack (2): When you heal a target or feed them a potion, you auto maximize a number of healing dice equal to half your rank in this skill.
---Invigorating Aid (2):* When you heal a target or perform first aid, you also grant them 1d8 temporary hit points. These temporary hit points cannot exceed 5 * your rank in this skill.
---Brew Potion (3): As the feat.
----Lesser Restoration (4): As the spell, usable 1/day per 2 ranks in this skill. You must use a healer's kit or healing potion on a target to create this effect.
----------Raid Dead (10): As the spell, usable 1/day per 10 ranks in this skill. You must use a healer's kit or healing potion on a target to create this effect.
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:18, Sun 14 Dec 2014.
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