DFRPG adjustments?   Posted by Narrator.Group: 0
Narrator
 GM, 4424 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Tue 19 Sep 2017
at 16:20
DFRPG adjustments?
I am grandfathering in quite a few things. I like the new bard, and some of the ready power ups.
Races, in particular  I am keeping, with the following  caveats;
All catfolk are Sahudese, and races must come out of 250 starting points.
New charactets that follow templates are to follow the new version.

Spells: I like creation spells and I want necromancers to have the ability to make zeds. In 3e, ally group covered how many mooks you could have easily, because ally group was built on the points of the allies, not scaled proportionately to the character as in 4e. I am surprised by the volume of gate related spells, but if the expectation is world hopping, it retroactively makes sense that allies are always present and that enemy and sometimes reputations or duties are out.

Things changing now: no more custom elementals. You need enough wood to build a bonfire in order to conjure a fire elemental and control rolls need be made every effective half hour or they leave/dissipate, AND they need fuel regularly. There are enough varieties in Summoners.
Elementals wear no armor, and carry no backpacks. That would be golems.

Speaking of golems, I have been treating them as valuable property, as suggested in Magic. Signature gear more or less equals ally in points... in the future they will be allies. but custom golems must be justified. Chris has DR 10, but the default DR of a clay golem is 0, and stone golems have only 4. So Chris is wearing layered armor, padded plus scale plus plate or something to that effect and is going to be a little slower, and about 75 lbs heavier.
Narrator
 GM, 4427 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Tue 19 Sep 2017
at 18:08
DFRPG adjustments?
Languages: I like having distinct regional common tounges, with Aral being common, and Valdassyan, Shevnian, and Sahudese being separate. I dislike orcish as the common tongue for gobblekin, and here is my view on Ancient: Malga'Mar 's latin and greek could become this, but I have this proto elven language called Eldrich, which most Thaumatological writing is in...it is closer to Elder than Ancient, and currently only Chou-Zhen Mou, Jareth Mooncalled, and Dareos Madrigar speak it, (it is Dark One).

Latin I was looking at as being the liturgical language of the Church of the One True Tripartate God, you know the religion that has goblins in the cathedral and an abbey full of wights and doombrats? That one. It has been used for many occult chronicles, but since this history does not have Constantine converting, the church is only one of many, and even Angels get iffy about who they serve...
Ardenas Barehand
 player, 893 posts
 Human martial artist with
 a few spells on the side.
Tue 19 Sep 2017
at 22:54
DFRPG adjustments?
Doesn't sound as if players will need to buy the DFRPG book unless they're creating characters, perhaps not then?  I've got PDFs of a few of the old DF books, the ones I've needed, and I'm not very prone to getting everything related to DF/DFRPG, because my own preference is for a bit less "retro" game.  If I ever have time to run my own campaign again, that is...
Oly
 player, 928 posts
 Badly disfigured face
 Rank 1 Guild badge
Wed 20 Sep 2017
at 02:05
DFRPG adjustments?
I have some of the DF output, I prefer GURPS, but will try and get the boxed set so I can play along.
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1249 posts
 blue haired
 mountain elf
Wed 20 Sep 2017
at 06:48
DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Oly (msg # 4):

Christine, Gareth and Kirpich seem the main character effected. I assume all agreed custom elementals still exist? Also, since Chunky, Kirpichs' ally, was an elemental specifically designed to carry stuff, we will need to work out if he has changed, and if so, how. Can we also go over the stat changes with Chris, especially given he has seen combat several times in the past.
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1183 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 9/10
Wed 20 Sep 2017
at 07:45
DFRPG adjustments?
My Hot take:

I'd switch over to DFRPG for the spells, and then adapt spells you need over.  Just try to 'realign' them to the new costs, durations, etc.

I have to read more into the DFRPG to see if I'd allow for Power-Ups and abilities from outside of it (personally).

But off the top I can say I'm not overly impressed with Holy Warriors.

Narrator:
New charactets that follow templates are to follow the new version.

So... are you still allowing characters to be made that aren't from, or that simply "color outside the lines" of, a template?

I'm still not sure what the drawback is to doing that.

quote:
Spells: I like creation spells...

Aside from Create Servant, Create Warrior, Create Animal, Create Mount, and Create Item what are missing that you need?

And note, that with a slight rethinking of Phantom, you can cover all the above spells (except Item).... just not quite as cheaply.

But I can also see importing those spells and adjusting them to align with the DFRPG Spells.

quote:
I want necromancers to have the ability to make zeds.

Honestly... on this one I'd just make it:

Raise Zombie:  Ally (Built on 10% [0.4];  12 or less [x2]; Summonable, +100%; Requires and Uses Dead Bodies, -20%; Minion, +0%; PM, -10%) [2]

Undead Minions:  Allies (Five servitor skeletons or zombies; Built on 10%; 15 or less†; Minion, +0%; PM, -10%) [6], (10 servitors) [7], or (20 servitors) [9]

Necromancers uses the Raise Zombie spell to fill out his ranks, and if he has too many Zombies (more than his Ally group covers) he just starts losing them as they wander off, fall apart, etc.  And of course Costs Fatigue and takes extra time can be added to make the "Raise" spell less character points.

†  This is to determine if his Ally group survives between missions.  Obviously NPCs can have Zs be around as long you like, but PCs need some limitors.

For Elementals I'd just use the Elemental Ally from Summoners.


Alternately, if you want to keep the Raise*, Summon, Command, Turn, Bind spells as skills... then I'd change Summon Spirit to Summon (Spirit) (meaning specialized choosing from Ghosts, Elementals, Demons (Divine Unholy), Angels (Divine Holy), etc), and than do the same with Command (Spirit)†, Entrap Spirits, Repel Spirits, Sense Spirits, and Turn Spirits.  Also change the prereqs for the Elemental versions to their Elements and Divine Holy/Unholy to the Gate college maybe (or honestly I'd leave those as Power Investure, so Divine Spirit folk are the realm of Clerics only).

Have Spirits hang around longer (for free) on Good reaction rolls and then just make a new Reaction Roll every [TIME] interval (half hour?  Base Magic is generally an hour).

Sense (Ghost) would of course sense Incorporeal, including incorporeal Demons.

* Obviously you have add in Raise Zombie.
† The only difference here is to actually allow those types for Command (Spirit) as it's already a specialized spell.

Narrator:
Languages

I'd obviously like to get a list of all the languages...  at some point...  also obviously I think you should keep doing Languages as you have.  I think switching to the simplified DFRPG version would be a waste.


Ardenas Barehand:
Doesn't sound as if players will need to buy the DFRPG book unless they're creating characters, perhaps not then?  I've got PDFs of a few of the old DF books, the ones I've needed, and I'm not very prone to getting everything related to DF/DFRPG, because my own preference is for a bit less "retro" game.  If I ever have time to run my own campaign again, that is...

Not sure I'd call DFRPG a "retro" game.

It has a lot less "Hey we only hack and slash!" vibe than DF does, in fact it calls out going on quests.  However it still wants to simplify town into a 2-dimensional backdrop... but then that's what DF does and it's not like that isn't ignorable.
Ardenas Barehand
 player, 894 posts
 Human martial artist with
 a few spells on the side.
Wed 20 Sep 2017
at 08:46
DFRPG adjustments?
Honestly, my head is about to explode just from reading that last post, Jareth.  It sounds to me as if DFRPG is SJ Games's take on Hero System.  I never did really understand Powers, and it's starting to look like everything in GURPS is going to work like Powers (or Ritual Path Magic, to pick a similar book that came out in 3rd Ed.) -- new rules material is all about "here's how to caculate new [stuff], but we're only going to actually give you four examples, after that you're on your own."

To me, it seems like just a way to shove the behind-the-curtain stuff into the face of the GM and players.  Yes, balance is good, but I like having a big bunch of skills, spells, etc. to choose from without loading all of that work onto the players or GM.  The ability to just pick up the books and *play* is what, in my mind, separated GURPS from Hero System.
Narrator
 GM, 4428 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Wed 20 Sep 2017
at 12:18
DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Christine Bjorn (msg # 5):

The mechanical form of Chris's DR and encumberance is all that is being altered. DR was an addable feature using magic. Appendix z, which I now use for golem weights and costs has a base DR per material. You have armor equal to the DR at the signature gear rate, which I may have to calculate but it will be DR 10,the expenditure may cover orichalcum for weight reduction, or even enchantment with lighten.

The divine earth elemental ally is pretty much the same as the one from Heavy Metal 2- tiny and not particularly strong.
No more fists of Grom, I have a list of about 6 elemental types.
There is also a flying fireball elemental type that I will use for cracker and the like.  I know you put in some work to build these, but I'd rather use the standard templates.


As to zombies, I looked at :paid for magery with points, paid for skill with points, paid for casting with FP and had to make a roll, wtf more need you pay?

I could put the 24 hour limit on them, unless you pay points for ally, they fall apart.
Gareth
 player, 146 posts
 Odd Character
 Smokin' Human
Wed 20 Sep 2017
at 13:01
DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Narrator (msg # 8):

Ok. And Gareths fire imps? he was looking for something small and very cheap to create, cheaper than the existing ones, and smaller possibly...
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1250 posts
 blue haired
 mountain elf
Wed 20 Sep 2017
at 13:03
DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Gareth (msg # 9):

The flying ones cost considerably more to create from the Summoning books. Is there a way to make them cheaper too?

Kirpich will miss the Clubs...but does the new Ally have the same carrying capacity as Chunky?

This message was last edited by the player at 13:05, Wed 20 Sept 2017.

Narrator
 GM, 4433 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Wed 20 Sep 2017
at 14:39
DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Christine Bjorn (msg # 10):

The flying elementals cost 6 rather than 4 points. On the other hand, having one as an ally costs 4 character pts;
 the Talus is here:
https://drive.google.com/file/...Vk/view?usp=drivesdk
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1184 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 9/10
Wed 20 Sep 2017
at 15:39
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Ardenas Barehand:
Honestly, my head is about to explode just from reading that last post, Jareth.  It sounds to me as if DFRPG is SJ Games's take on Hero System.

There are no Elementals, Zombies, etc as allies in DFRPG.  There are no Allies in DFRPG.

I suspect... all that will be in a future expansion book.

My take was to go the DF Summoners book and draw from there.  In Summoners they still have the standard "Raise, Summon, Control, etc" spells, but they also add Elemental, Zombie, Demonic, and Spirit Allies.

quote:
I never did really understand Powers, and it's starting to look like everything in GURPS is going to work like Powers (or Ritual Path Magic, to pick a similar book that came out in 3rd Ed.) -- new rules material is all about "here's how to caculate new [stuff], but we're only going to actually give you four examples, after that you're on your own."

Not even remotely.

I haven't figured out how many spells have been truncated from the list, but my gut says half.  So there is still an awful lot of Spells as Skills to chose from.  Most of the spells gone are ones the PCs (in a DF Game) would never be casting anyway**...

For instance Resurrection is gone from the lists.  Why?  Because PCs can't cast it.  I mean who has 500 FP just lying around?  But it is on the "Services You Can Buy In Town" list.  Which is where I've argued it's needed to be all along.

They just didn't bother to replace it's absence on the Clerical list.

The Clerics take a hit at PI 4, 5, and 6, losing about half the spells they used to have a those levels (so do Druids).  And no, I haven't done a serious enough comparison to figure out why or what (aside from Resurrection which was easy).

But... as I'm the guy behind this thread: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=151211

I will be.  I will be.



[EDIT]
** I did say most.  For instance we know the Create spells from Illusions are gone as are the Elemental Control, Summon, and Create spells are gone.  And those are fan favorites.

But likewise are gone the Enchantment spells, a bunch of Meta spells (I just looked and Link, Delay, Spell Throwing, etc are gone), etc.
[/EDIT]

quote:
To me, it seems like just a way to shove the behind-the-curtain stuff into the face of the GM and players.

Except it's all explicitly behind the curtain.  None of the abilities in DFRPG have the math shown... which means new GMs are boned for easily figuring out how to do new things.  They'll have to go to the forums and get help or buy all the other books...

quote:
Yes, balance is good, but I like having a big bunch of skills, spells, etc. to choose from without loading all of that work onto the players or GM.

You still have all that.

And GURPS has never been a "pick up and play" system.  Not for the GMs anyway.

DFRPG is a "pick up and play" system, it's all worked out... it's just not quite as expansive as GURPS or DF.

It really is a good "newbies first GURPS" system.

This message was last edited by the player at 15:48, Wed 20 Sept 2017.

Narrator
 GM, 4435 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Wed 20 Sep 2017
at 19:27
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Jareth Mooncalled (msg # 12):

Spell throwing stays, as do many others. I had a PC enchanter (Xandalar) who knew the manastone spell (yer basic power item charger) but now he has that 50pt advantage form DF19, and is an npcc due to player loss. I like a lot of Magic and will continue with allies etc.
Kirpich Rockson
 player, 636 posts
 Earth Cleric
 He Rocks!
Wed 20 Sep 2017
at 19:50
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Narrator (msg # 13):

So should I work out Chunky as a Talas?
Ardenas Barehand
 player, 895 posts
 Human martial artist with
 a few spells on the side.
Wed 20 Sep 2017
at 23:01
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Well, Jareth, maybe it's just me -- folks with Autistic Spectrum Disorders like me tend to dislike change (at least if we didn't initiate it).  Along with that, in thirty years, I've only ever actually played GURPS in a long term campaign three times (about a year of once a week each time), not counting Northport, and run a campaign for a few months twice.  I feel somewhat left behind by what seems constant change -- really, I don't think I've been completely comfortable with GURPS since 4th Ed. came out, though if I ignore Powers and all the "framework" stuff it's still pretty much the same game 3rd. Ed. was.

Heck, I don't even like templates all that much, though I will admit that a properly constructed one makes it easier to avoid forgetting stuff during character creation.

But I was very annoyed with Sorcery -- it seems like it's one of a growing number of new books that just assume you have, and fully understand, a book I've never seen (and don't say, on the cover, that they have prerequisites).  RPM makes no sense to me, and nothing based on it does -- and some books don't carry the appropriate warning label that says "you must understand RPM to use this book."

If DFRPG is just a subset of GURPS bundled in with a subset of the DF books, I don't think there's a big issue.  I just tend to be afraid I'm going to have to drop a bunch of cash to buy new rule books to stay in a game I've been really enjoying.
Oly
 player, 929 posts
 Badly disfigured face
 Rank 1 Guild badge
Wed 20 Sep 2017
at 23:13
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
OK So I now gather that the various DF titles I have gathered are not the same as this new DFRPG Boxed set? I'm starting to feel Ardenas' frustration too.  D&D turned me off with so many adjustments, updates, improvement and other crap you had to buy ... SJ sort of rubbed when we had to buy all new Hard Bound books for 4E ... now we need variations? If it isn't in DF, I'm starting not to care ... I'm tired of "new" just to sell books.
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1185 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 9/10
Thu 21 Sep 2017
at 01:02
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Ardenas Barehand:
Well, Jareth, maybe it's just me -- folks with Autistic Spectrum Disorders like me tend to dislike change (at least if we didn't initiate it).

You must hate D&D.

I do, but for very different reasons.

quote:
But I was very annoyed with Sorcery -- it seems like it's one of a growing number of new books that just assume you have, and fully understand, a book I've never seen (and don't say, on the cover, that they have prerequisites).

Well, no those "requirements" are listed in the introductions.  Just like every other GURPS book, that lists what you 'need' to get the most out of what you are using, or in some cases are required to even really use it.

DF has that:   Basic Set and Magic are needed to properly run DF (and a few other stealth books where assumptions are drawn from but never outright stated - which I hate).

quote:
RPM makes no sense to me, and nothing based on it does -- and some books don't carry the appropriate warning label that says "you must understand RPM to use this book."

What needs that warning though?  The only books I can think of that use RPM, introduced it!

Monster Hunters 'created' RPM, Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic expanded it... and... that's it?  Is RPM even used anywhere else (aside from Thaumatology which really introduced it, but only it's most skeleton form)?

quote:
If DFRPG is just a subset of GURPS bundled in with a subset of the DF books, I don't think there's a big issue.

That's basically what it is.  It's a trimmed down Basic Set, DF, and Magic, so all you need is DFRPG.  You don't need any other GURPS books.  Warning, there are some changes to things in DF, but so far they have been pretty minor (baring the truncated Cleric and Druid Spell lists).

I expect a DFRPG Power-Ups and more Races and Templates.  Probably an Adventurers 2 book can be squeezed out to fulfill that.

quote:
I just tend to be afraid I'm going to have to drop a bunch of cash to buy new rule books to stay in a game I've been really enjoying.

All you'll need is the templates.  And I can copy those if you ever decide you want to make a Template character.

And the spells list if someone wants to play a caster.



Oly:
OK So I now gather that the various DF titles I have gathered are not the same as this new DFRPG Boxed set?

Correct.  They're similar, but not the same.

It's as though DF were version 1 and DFRPG were version 1.5.  A simplified, streamlined DF.

quote:
SJ sort of rubbed when we had to buy all new Hard Bound books for 4E ...

You only 'had' to buy 4e if you wnated play or run 4e.

quote:
now we need variations? If it isn't in DF, I'm starting not to care ... I'm tired of "new" just to sell books.

This isn't 'just to sell books'.  I get the feeling this is the DF Sean Punch kinda wanted to make all those years ago but didn't have the greenlight from SJG to do so.  Or maybe this is the DF as it's adapted in his (and others) home games.  More tightly focused, redone spells, etc.

I'm half looking at this as 4e Magic 1.9.  Kinda.
Oly
 player, 931 posts
 Badly disfigured face
 Rank 1 Guild badge
Thu 21 Sep 2017
at 02:07
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
OK, That helps... some...
As for buying 4E ... see many people still playing 3e?  I don't.
Shroud
 player, 10 posts
Thu 21 Sep 2017
at 03:25
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
You should not be afraid of spending money on a hobby you like on product from a company you like, because that money is going to go to that company so they can continue to make product that you will like. Even if what is out now is not what you want, not supporting it is not supporting them, which means they will not have the resources to make those little project that you care about. Its ok to nitpick, but don't nitpick. If you like GURPS, Buy GURPS, regardless of what it is, because that keeps them afloat. They all float down there, and you can float too! you can float too! YOU CAN FLOAT TOO! YOUCANFLOATTOO! YOUCANFLOATTOO!YOUCANFLOATTOO!YOU CAN FLOAT TOO!!!!!!.
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1186 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 9/10
Thu 21 Sep 2017
at 04:15
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Oly:
As for buying 4E ... see many people still playing 3e?  I don't.

There's a thread every month or so on the GURPS forums with someone asking 3e questions.
Shroud
 player, 11 posts
Thu 21 Sep 2017
at 04:29
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
I've noticed that too, but most of those threads are started by the same person...
Ardenas Barehand
 player, 896 posts
 Human martial artist with
 a few spells on the side.
Thu 21 Sep 2017
at 09:12
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Whee!  Lots to answer there, I won't get my "play" posts in before leaving for work if I try to go into detail now.  However: I abandoned D&D when 2nd Ed. came out, because I didn't like the changes and didn't want to spend $100 in 1990 money to replace the AD&D books I already had.  Since then, I've played two sessions of what I think was 3.5 with a rather poor GM.  These days, I'm not inclined to even try -- 3.5, Pathfinder, and 4 are far too complex, and 5 isn't complete even two years or so in.  I doubt it'll ever be "complete".

Shroud, the problem with what you suggest is twofold.  First, a lot of gamers don't have a hobby budget.  If I had money (and time) to spend on hobbies, I'd be doing more with film photography (getting my darkroom set back up, etc.), building/flying model airplanes again, working on and shooting my guns.  When I got into gaming, it was almost free.  Figures and maps were optional, a couple sets of cheap dice would serve a whole table, one set of books (about $20 in the late 1970s) would serve a whole table.

The other side of things is that if we buy stuff we don't like or want to play, we're sending the wrong message.  "I support your company and your effort" is a fine message, but spending money on "GURPS: Podunk Phone Book" is telling SJ Games I want more products like "Podunk Phone Book" -- when what I really want is more products like "Low Tech", "High Tech", "Space", "Martial Arts", etc.  In fact, buying "Podunk Phone Book" may actively prevent products I want, because a small gaming company (and in the grand scheme of things, SJ games is small) can't do both "Ultra Tech" and "Podunk Yellow Pages" -- at least, not in the same year.
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1187 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 9/10
Thu 21 Sep 2017
at 13:22
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Ardenas Barehand:
However: I abandoned D&D when 2nd Ed. came out, because I didn't like the changes and didn't want to spend $100 in 1990 money to replace the AD&D books I already had.

Maybe it's just me... but this is something I've never understood.  Why 'abandon D&D' just because a new edition came out?

I know someone who still only runs OD&D (1974).  I played in 1e AD&D games up till... oh, '93ish?  My group still played 3e GURPS up till about '08 (and we only 'switched' because most of the group moved to another state leaving only 2 of us... and the two of us picked up 4e and decided it was better).

Why?  Because the people who ran those games had those books and they ran them.

Now, if none of your friends wanted to keep playing the older system, I get moving on.

quote:
5 isn't complete even two years or so in.  I doubt it'll ever be "complete".

What do you mean by "not complete"?

quote:
The other side of things is that if we buy stuff we don't like or want to play, we're sending the wrong message.

Totes agree.  I never buy products I'm not interested in.

Which is why I haven't bought any D&D since the late 80's* (Immortals book for Mentzer's D&D).


* Which is totes a lie.  I continued picking up the GAZ series, I finally got the last two I was missing in like '05.  I've also picked up the errant module here and there, but haven't paid as close attention since I tended to grab those from bargain bins, yard sales, hand-me-downs, etc and they weren't "significant purchases".  Those last two GAZ (The Atruaghin Clans and The Shadow Elves) were bloody expensive, but I was flush with cash that was on fire and needed spending and they were on ebay just sitting there... all deliciously tempting like and in their pristine conditions.

I... sometimes I'm a weak man.  :sob:




But I get what your saying Ardenas.  About how it was 'cheaper' back then.  A single set of books* and dice and you were golden.  It's still kinda that way**... as long as you're not online.  It's a lot harder to "just pass around the book" on a virtual tabletop and pdfs are harder to pass around***.

But at least the dice are cheap.


* And they don't even need to be owned by one person!  In my old D&D group in the 80's I owned all the GAZ, the DM had the rules books, and we players all chipped in every month or so and bought him a new adventure module.  So the cost was spread around.  The old days were best!  Get off my lawn!  /shakes cane at the young whipersnappers thinking about walking on the lawn

** One of the guys in my current group doesn't own a single roleplaying book.  Not a one.  All his money goes to feeding his Magic The Gathering addiction.

***  Legally anyway.  It's really hard to legally share those pdfs around the table...
Narrator
 GM, 4436 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Thu 21 Sep 2017
at 15:07
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Kirpich: alter Chunky's advantage kit to match (DR7 is fine, that is an optional build), and as it is not a familiar, you can go with out that modifier. Making no fine manipulators combined with the striker works too, I would lose the shield; use the cost to upgrade your own armor.
Narrator
 GM, 4437 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Thu 21 Sep 2017
at 15:16
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Narrator (msg # 24):

In order to facilitate play without forcing people to pick up more pdfs, I  will privately present excerpts and approximations of templates.
There is a fairly steady 3e gaming population, and I see them rejoice any time an oop classic book goes to pdf. I personally still get some 3e material for conversion purposes, There are some advantages from 3 e I still like.
Oly
 player, 932 posts
 Badly disfigured face
 Rank 1 Guild badge
Thu 21 Sep 2017
at 17:03
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
That is true ... I still have a shelf full of 3e stuff ...  less 4e as it tends to be more expensive...

I'd be willing to share pdf too, except that it is illegal and short changes the author and publisher who had significant expenses.
Dareos Madrigar
 player, 302 posts
 Dark One/Cleric o Sethygg
 HP 12/12 FP 12/12 PI15/15
Thu 21 Sep 2017
at 20:13
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Narrator (msg # 25):

Other than the loss of several odd races, there really aren't a lot of changes to the templates.  The races are the same although some abilities are labelled differently.  The Professions have a few little changes to most of them.
So if you build a character complying with the old professions and only selecting one of the new races, you're likely 95% done.
Just expect armor to not cost or weigh the same and, if you're using Fortify/Lighten/Deflect enchantments, they're more expensive and broken down differently than how they are in Magic.


As for the PDF sharing, I completely agree we shouldn't be freely sharing the work with those that should be buying them.
However, if a screenshot of a given template or the armor chart is sent to a player, I don't think that's an issue.

Players in my DFRPG don't have to have the books, but they can come to me to make characters.  Northport doesn't have that luxury.

This message was last edited by the player at 20:16, Thu 21 Sept 2017.

Chye Isuel
 player, 857 posts
 Osu! Ora Chye Isuel!
 Dragon descended, Youxia
Thu 21 Sep 2017
at 21:02
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JNuqEz_GCQ
Narrator
 GM, 4438 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Thu 21 Sep 2017
at 21:27
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Chye Isuel (msg # 28):

I would absolutely prefer for all players to have what they need to play, and as I am friends with some of the authors, I  want them to get paid.
This has not stopped me from printing single use hardcopy, or sharing a screenshot of a rule clarification.
Ardenas Barehand
 player, 897 posts
 Human martial artist with
 a few spells on the side.
Thu 21 Sep 2017
at 21:52
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Jareth Mooncalled:
Ardenas Barehand:
However: I abandoned D&D when 2nd Ed. came out, because I didn't like the changes and didn't want to spend $100 in 1990 money to replace the AD&D books I already had.

Maybe it's just me... but this is something I've never understood.  Why 'abandon D&D' just because a new edition came out?


quote:
Now, if none of your friends wanted to keep playing the older system, I get moving on.


And that's why.  My DM and the rest of my group were switching, I didn't want to switch, so I left the group.  Based on what I've read since about 2nd, I made the right decision; it was a completely different game, and not an improvement.

quote:
quote:
5 isn't complete even two years or so in.  I doubt it'll ever be "complete".

What do you mean by "not complete"?


I keep up with rpg.stackexchange.com.  It appears that D&D 5 doesn't yet have a sufficiently complete published ruleset to fully resolve a lot of different questions about how it's supposed to work -- which is worrisome for a game that has made a big move back toward the "game" side of the RPG continuum.

quote:
But I get what your saying Ardenas.  About how it was 'cheaper' back then.  A single set of books* and dice and you were golden.  It's still kinda that way**... as long as you're not online.  It's a lot harder to "just pass around the book" on a virtual tabletop and pdfs are harder to pass around***.

But at least the dice are cheap.


* And they don't even need to be owned by one person!  In my old D&D group in the 80's I owned all the GAZ, the DM had the rules books, and we players all chipped in every month or so and bought him a new adventure module.  So the cost was spread around.  The old days were best!  Get off my lawn!  /shakes cane at the young whipersnappers thinking about walking on the lawn

** One of the guys in my current group doesn't own a single roleplaying book.  Not a one.  All his money goes to feeding his Magic The Gathering addiction.

***  Legally anyway.  It's really hard to legally share those pdfs around the table...


The problem is that that "one set of books," depending on the kind of game you want to play, may exceed $100 or even approach $200.  I can't picture getting together with three or four friends and discussing whether each of us should chip in $50 to buy the books that, with a couple months of intensive study, might let us play a cool game of a kind we've only read about or seen in cheesy movies or good TV (but set 30+ years ago, so a completely different game).

Okay, so we try one of the free or cheap RPGs -- and when we don't have as much fun as we thought we would, we aren't sure if we're just not approaching it right (likely the case with a game based on FATE), we weren't playing in the right genre or picked the wrong base mechanic (too much roll playing, or too much role playing?), or just aren't cut out to spend three to six hours in each other's company, cooperating in order to have fun (as opposed to setting up yet another WoW raid or going pirating in EVE -- or getting virtually laid in Second Life).
Kirpich Rockson
 player, 638 posts
 Earth Cleric
 He Rocks!
Thu 21 Sep 2017
at 22:55
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Narrator:
Kirpich: alter Chunky's advantage kit to match (DR7 is fine, that is an optional build), and as it is not a familiar, you can go with out that modifier. Making no fine manipulators combined with the striker works too, I would lose the shield; use the cost to upgrade your own armour.


So we drop the following disadvantages:

Doesn’t Eat or Drink          [10]#
Doesn’t Sleep                 [20]#
Pressure Support 2            [10]#
Vacuum Support                [5]#

Given he is very much a non-combatant who does not fight, a shield, even if adapted, seems appropriate. It is a cheap one, so the cost will not go far on my armour!

This does reduce his point cost...am I allowed to increase it to compensate? If so, what are my options?

What does a Talus eat?

Actually, the Earth Elemental from Summoners with Walking Wall template would be 125 points, and looks much more similar to what he was, including the same Lifting strength. We could just reduce the SM to -1 to keep it consistent, adding in the Wealth level to compensate for the increased cost of ST.
Narrator
 GM, 4440 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Fri 22 Sep 2017
at 00:37
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Kirpich Rockson (msg # 31):

If you build as the walking wall thats fine, but stick to the earth elemental build. They eat rocks, like Gorons from Legend of Zelda.
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1188 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 9/10
Fri 22 Sep 2017
at 04:23
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Oly:
That is true ... I still have a shelf full of 3e stuff ...  less 4e as it tends to be more expensive...

I have three milk crates of 3e stuff.  And a disk of the pdfs I've bought so far (I've been picking them up as they've been released to pdf).

For 4e, I have the hardback basics and pdfs of pretty much everything else.  But then, when I have a group, GURPS is my hobby of choice.  After that is video games. Oh, and probably above both is reading, but that's so inexpensive comparatively it's hard to count it.

I'd be willing to share pdf too, except that it is illegal and short changes the author and publisher who had significant expenses.
Around the table, face to face, sure.  But yeah, otherwise I'll just copy small discrete sections for someone's use in an online game.  Like a Template, or the new Mnauevers from martial Arts.  That sort of stuff.




Ardenas Barehand:
Based on what I've read since about 2nd, I made the right decision; it was a completely different game, and not an improvement.

Eh... I've played them both and I'm not sure I could tell you of any differences?  Sure... one had some horrid to-hit chart (1e) and the other THAC0 (2e), but that's the only difference that springs to mind.  Both were D&D.


quote:
I keep up with rpg.stackexchange.com.  It appears that D&D 5 doesn't yet have a sufficiently complete published ruleset to fully resolve a lot of different questions about how it's supposed to work...

Uhhhh.... okay.  I'm chalking this up to "different defintion of complete".  The Alpha build for 5e was complete enough for me to run Caves of Chaos, the published rules are more than enough to run a longer term game if I liked D&D enough to run it.

quote:
-- which is worrisome for a game that has made a big move back toward the "game" side of the RPG continuum.

What do you mean by "game" side of RPG?


quote:
The problem is that that "one set of books," depending on the kind of game you want to play, may exceed $100 or even approach $200.

Sure... but when I was a kid $30 was an insane amount of money, about equal in 'feeling' to $100 these days (I just checked and based on inflation $30 back in 85 is about $70 now).

quote:
Okay, so we try one of the free or cheap RPGs -- and when we don't have as much fun as we thought we would, we aren't sure if we're just not approaching it right (likely the case with a game based on FATE), we weren't playing in the right genre or picked the wrong base mechanic (too much roll playing, or too much role playing?), or just aren't cut out to spend three to six hours in each other's company, cooperating in order to have fun (as opposed to setting up yet another WoW raid or going pirating in EVE -- or getting virtually laid in Second Life).

Ah, see I solve that by finding someone who is running the game and joining them for w while.  But while I agree change is bad, I can easily adapt to changes so it's not nearly as bad for me.  So just finding a new group of guys to game with for a few months (on off days) is usually not a problem.

Also, I've never spent more than a like two weeks learnign a new game before sitting down and playing it.  So there isn't the same level of investment for me.




Narrator:
They eat rocks, like Gorons from Legend of Zelda.

Are these super sweet rocks that cost $42 a week?  If not there's an Advantage for that.  And do Talus' need to drink water?  There's an advantage for that as well...   ;)
Ardenas Barehand
 player, 898 posts
 Human martial artist with
 a few spells on the side.
Fri 22 Sep 2017
at 09:21
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Jareth Mooncalled:
quote:
-- which is worrisome for a game that has made a big move back toward the "game" side of the RPG continuum.

What do you mean by "game" side of RPG?


I'm talking about the dichotomy in RPGs between "gamism" -- a game that plays like a wargame or otherwise with a bunch of arbitrary rules, optimizations, etc. -- and "role playing", which depends much more on GM rulings and where the "game" aspect is there in support of the cooperative storytelling aspect.  IMO, GURPS 3rd and 4th are pretty well balanced on this point.


quote:
quote:
The problem is that that "one set of books," depending on the kind of game you want to play, may exceed $100 or even approach $200.

Sure... but when I was a kid $30 was an insane amount of money, about equal in 'feeling' to $100 these days (I just checked and based on inflation $30 back in 85 is about $70 now).


And yet, when I was in high school and on into college (1978-1982, specifically), living on a budget where I often had to choose between food and gas for my car, I didn't have any problem owning the Monster Manual, Player's Handbook, and DMG -- even had Unearthed Arcana and MMII, as I recall.  Those large hardbacks were $10 each then.  So, if a group wanted to chip in and try this new kind of game, it'd be no more than $50 if they went all in, or as little as $30 to start (plus a couple bucks for a set of funky dice).  Yes, that's a bit more than doubled by inflation for comparison, but still not beyond the realm of four or five players chipping in.

Now, the minimum to play a GURPS fantasy campaign -- Characters, Campaigns, and Magic -- will set you back $120 in hardback.  Plus a bag of d6.  And $20 for GCA, if you don't know about the free GCS before you send your SJ Games order, because who wants to spend hours adding up skill points before you even get to the fun part of the game?

quote:
quote:
Okay, so we try one of the free or cheap RPGs -- and when we don't have as much fun as we thought we would, we aren't sure if we're just not approaching it right (likely the case with a game based on FATE), we weren't playing in the right genre or picked the wrong base mechanic (too much roll playing, or too much role playing?), or just aren't cut out to spend three to six hours in each other's company, cooperating in order to have fun (as opposed to setting up yet another WoW raid or going pirating in EVE -- or getting virtually laid in Second Life).

Ah, see I solve that by finding someone who is running the game and joining them for w while.  But while I agree change is bad, I can easily adapt to changes so it's not nearly as bad for me.  So just finding a new group of guys to game with for a few months (on off days) is usually not a problem.

Also, I've never spent more than a like two weeks learnign a new game before sitting down and playing it.  So there isn't the same level of investment for me.


Finding a new group isn't as easy as all that.  If I were a D&D player, it'd be easier, but with my work schedule, even that is difficult.  I've lived in this area for thirteen years, and in that time I've gamed with two different groups.  One was the group that more or less forced me into GURPS 4th (I was happy with 3rd, and had a lot of sourcebooks, they wanted the latest and greatest -- and several years later, I have the three basics, and Low Tech), the other is a group who alternate between Hero System (which feels like GURPS, if you're somewhat inebriated) and whatever new game the GM hasn't played before.  I'm back with this latter group now, every other Sunday, currently playing Mutant Future -- like OD&D warped to play like Gamma World -- and session after next we'll likely be building heroes for a Champions campaign.

My problem is, as I've noted before, I don't like change much.  I'd just as soon stick with one game for a couple years at a time; I don't like jumping around.  And I'm apparently the only one in that group who feels that way.

Two weeks?  To play GURPS without spending more time looking up a mechanic than actually playing?  My hat's off to you.  Gone are the days when I could read through a rule book once and be ready to play, and I don't have the reading time I did in the early '80s, either.
Kirpich Rockson
 player, 639 posts
 Earth Cleric
 He Rocks!
Fri 22 Sep 2017
at 09:22
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Narrator:
In reply to Kirpich Rockson (msg # 31):

If you build as the walking wall thats fine, but stick to the earth elemental build. They eat rocks, like Gorons from Legend of Zelda.


I think I will...it is much closer to the original build. Just to clarify, that suggests no change in SM for the walking wall?
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1189 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 9/10
Fri 22 Sep 2017
at 13:19
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Ardenas Barehand:
I'm talking about the dichotomy in RPGs between "gamism" -- a game that plays like a wargame or otherwise with a bunch of arbitrary rules, optimizations, etc. -- and "role playing", which depends much more on GM rulings and where the "game" aspect is there in support of the cooperative storytelling aspect.  IMO, GURPS 3rd and 4th are pretty well balanced on this point.

By GNS theory D&D is pretty much pure gamist.  GURPS is a good mix of gamist and simulationist.

Neither are good at narrativism (granted GURPS has optional rules that can put it more into the narrativist corner, but it's still not really a narrative setting).

quote:
And yet, when I was in high school...

Inversely I have waaaay more money now than I had when I was kid for my hobbies.

I've probably spent waaay more in GURPS 4e than I have in Mentzer D&D, even accounting for the overinflated price I paid to finish the Gazateer run (not that they are "Mentzer D&D", but I strongly associate the BECMI D&D set with the GAZ series).  If I counted all the modules and 1st ed D&D?  Maybe I'd come close?

But yeah, I get what you're saying... but I disagree that gaming is more expensive now.  It's just with everything at our fingertips, we want more and are satisfied with less than when we were kids.


quote:
Finding a new group isn't as easy as all that.

Again, for me, it's become easier.  But that's because I've done a bunch of PbP gaming (because I hate leaving my house for the sole purpose of meeting people).

I've played FATE online.  FFG's Star Wars online.  Ummm.... okay that's it (aside from GURPS and OD&D [1974]) as I haven't want to try anything else.

quote:
My problem is, as I've noted before, I don't like change much.

That's a rough one I agree.  While I 'hate change'* myself, it's not hard for me to adapt, and sometime I even crave a bit of change.


* It's more I hate unexpected things.  So if the group talks about switching up games when the current campaign is done and we all come to an agreement before hand, that's kosher with me.  When the GM calls off one session, then at the next one announces he's not running that game anymore and is running this other game instead because he hated whee that campaign was going?  Yeah... total dislike.  And in my last group, that was one of our GMs with about 1 out of 3 games he ran.

quote:
Two weeks?  To play GURPS without spending more time looking up a mechanic than actually playing?

It's because I don't just read them.  I make notes and then refine those notes into 'cheat sheets'.

Hell after 30 years of GURPS I still look stuff up (on my cheat sheet usually because it's faster).

MY "GURPS GM" folder is about 20 pages of cheat sheets.  Maneuvers, tables, almost all the rules, just condensed into shorter more "formula" versions of the rules (with all my house rules mixed in without notation... which mean I should really sit down and fix so I stop making errors when trying to 'talk' RAW on the GURPS forums).
Narrator
 GM, 4443 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Fri 22 Sep 2017
at 16:25
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Kirpich Rockson (msg # 35):

I would say adjust the size, if there is no cost, at DR 7 I would still lose the shield, and they eat created food, which I suspect your god provides as rich, nutritious earth anyway,like the stuff the trees ate during the bachannal scene in Prince Caspian (or whichever of the Narnia Books had thst scene with the dryads)
His food does cost when not created, possibly subsisting on small semiprecious stobes that are worth  $6 a day...
Having neither "doesn't eat or drink" nor "universal digestion" would mean special good that is common and cheap.
chunky
 player, 5 posts
 small elemental
Fri 22 Sep 2017
at 17:08
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Narrator (msg # 37):

Elementals such as the walking wall have the Do not eat or drink advantage, so that is fine. DR for the walking wall is 9, and will adjust SM to suit.
Dareos Madrigar
 player, 303 posts
 Dark One/Cleric o Sethygg
 HP 12/12 FP 12/12 PI15/15
Sat 23 Sep 2017
at 06:47
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Important question for the conversion.

Armor costs and weights are different (as are armor enchantments!).  Are we grandfathered in with what we've got, converting to the new equivalent and ignoring the cost difference, or do we need to sell back our armor at full price and buy new armor with that same money?
Chye Isuel
 player, 860 posts
 Osu! Ora Chye Isuel!
 Dragon descended, Youxia
Sat 23 Sep 2017
at 07:41
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
man.... i hope not. what a drag, that'd be....
Ardenas Barehand
 player, 899 posts
 Human martial artist with
 a few spells on the side.
Sat 23 Sep 2017
at 10:30
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Dareos Madrigar:
Important question for the conversion.

Armor costs and weights are different (as are armor enchantments!).  Are we grandfathered in with what we've got, converting to the new equivalent and ignoring the cost difference, or do we need to sell back our armor at full price and buy new armor with that same money?


And what about those of us who don't (and probably won't) have the DFRPG book?
Narrator
 GM, 4447 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Sat 23 Sep 2017
at 12:25
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Ardenas Barehand (msg # 41):

I am grandfathering in current equipment, and will charge new rates for any new armor. I  don't  have the pdfs, so the new bits may be represented by shoddy phone pucs in private threads.
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1190 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 9/10
Sat 23 Sep 2017
at 16:59
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Ardenas Barehand:
And what about those of us who don't (and probably won't) have the DFRPG book?

Armor and weapon costs are taken straight from Low-Tech (AFAIK).  I'll be cross-checking more thoroughly as time goes.

New Enchantments are simply following this rule:  Everything* is Slow and Sure.

So all prices are 20$ per energy point.  This means new Cornucopia quivers are 2,010$.

* Except the Staff spell because Wizard's are cheating bastards.


And Narrator, I can help post weapon and armor costs and weights (and other weapon stat changes if necessary) as well.

Personally I think everyone should switch over* (weapon and armor stats) at the end of whatever adventure they are on (or now if they aren't in the field).  If people can't keep something really important (like the new armor weight puts them past their acceptable encumbrance limits) maybe hand out a few Lighten enchantments?


* I think I'll end up losing 1 DR on Jareth and Ulo as I think I think I used the weights from basic, which is more forgiving (and as both are edged right up against an encumberance level, I'd like to keep them trim).  Jednesa doesn't wear armor (though her axe/mace might get heavier).  I'm sure Stenet will lose some speed, he can't afford to downgrade his armor at all.
Chye Isuel
 player, 861 posts
 Osu! Ora Chye Isuel!
 Dragon descended, Youxia
Sat 23 Sep 2017
at 19:15
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
yeah, i'll probably never get the new book either. i don't even have any DF stuff. i have a collection of 4e pdf books, that were relevant up to now. xD
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1255 posts
 blue haired
 mountain elf
Sat 23 Sep 2017
at 22:24
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Chye Isuel (msg # 44):

Have most of the Basic set, DF and most Techs, but not the new ones. Be some time before I get that sort of cash...
Chye Isuel
 player, 863 posts
 Osu! Ora Chye Isuel!
 Dragon descended, Youxia
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 01:09
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
i mean, i'd invest in books if i were playing with live groups, but for post-by-post gaming (although i love it, and plan on staying on, til the servers crash) i wouldn't go invest in so much, for the sake of it... if that makes any sense.
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1256 posts
 blue haired
 mountain elf
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 05:39
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Narrator:
In reply to Christine Bjorn (msg # 10):

The flying elementals cost 6 rather than 4 points. On the other hand, having one as an ally costs 4 character pts;


Actually, I just noticed: this is for summoning. Cost for creation is double, effectively making it unusable for Christine as the recovery time would exceed the duration the elemental would hang around, not to mention the effects of zero FP, even factoring in skill (she does not have many FP). The previous elemental was built on 20 cp. Given how often she had used this in the past, suggestions on how to roleplay the sudden change?
Gorgath
 player, 385 posts
 HP 20/20 FP 11/13
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 07:10
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
The Grand Vizier of the Fire Elementals has grown tired of your continuing summoning of his subjects and now prevents you from summoning now until he is appeased.
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1257 posts
 blue haired
 mountain elf
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 07:47
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Gorgath (msg # 48):

Se did not summon: she created!
Dareos Madrigar
 player, 304 posts
 Dark One/Cleric o Sethygg
 HP 12/12 FP 12/12 PI15/15
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 07:54
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Jareth Mooncalled:
Armor and weapon costs are taken straight from Low-Tech (AFAIK).  I'll be cross-checking more thoroughly as time goes.


For the few types of armor I've cross referenced with Low-Tech Instant Armor, they're close but not precise.  Light Cloth torso armor, for example, is $53 6.3lb in DFRPG.  Padded Cloth is $50 6.0lb in Low-Tech: Instant Armor.
Chye Isuel
 player, 864 posts
 Osu! Ora Chye Isuel!
 Dragon descended, Youxia
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 07:57
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Elements of eternity, above and below...

Balance of essence, fire begets snow...

Locktwarr danalora luatha danu...
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1258 posts
 blue haired
 mountain elf
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 08:02
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Dareos Madrigar (msg # 50):

From memory, I think most of my characters did armour out of Low Tech. So that should be OK? Perhaps a list of what is available in a thread?

Chye???
Chye Isuel
 player, 865 posts
 Osu! Ora Chye Isuel!
 Dragon descended, Youxia
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 08:05
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
someone will get it.... we're all mostly 30+ xD
Dareos Madrigar
 player, 305 posts
 Dark One/Cleric o Sethygg
 HP 12/12 FP 12/12 PI15/15
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 08:13
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Chye Isuel (msg # 53):

Do we have to be 30+ to get a Willow reference?
Dareos Madrigar
 player, 306 posts
 Dark One/Cleric o Sethygg
 HP 12/12 FP 12/12 PI15/15
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 08:14
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Christine Bjorn:
From memory, I think most of my characters did armor out of Low Tech. So that should be OK? Perhaps a list of what is available in a thread?


Yeah, that'll have to be left to the GM.  I can't post that information.
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1192 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 9/10
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 08:41
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Gorgath:
The Grand Vizier of the Fire Elementals has grown tired of your continuing summoning of his subjects and now prevents you from summoning now until he is appeased.

Well that's certainly a hot situation.  To bad Christine couldn't just wait for him to cool off!




Dareos Madrigar:
For the few types of armor I've cross referenced with Low-Tech Instant Armor, they're close but not precise.  Light Cloth torso armor, for example, is $53 6.3lb in DFRPG.  Padded Cloth is $50 6.0lb in Low-Tech: Instant Armor.

You forgot to account for the fact that Body in DFRPG covers the neck, Low-Tech Instant Armor does not on it's Torso armor.  Add 5% to weight and cost...
Dareos Madrigar
 player, 307 posts
 Dark One/Cleric o Sethygg
 HP 12/12 FP 12/12 PI15/15
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 08:46
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Jareth Mooncalled:
You forgot to account for the fact that Body in DFRPG covers the neck, Low-Tech Instant Armor does not on it's Torso armor.  Add 5% to weight and cost...


I absolutely did forget that.  That explains so much.  I didn't understand why they would make such a slight but consistent deviation.

So other than the combining of that location for simplification and some naming adjustments, it appears to be accurate to Low-Tech: Instant Armor.
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1193 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 9/10
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 08:53
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Christine Bjorn:
Perhaps a list of what is available in a thread?

What is listed in DFRPG as available armor:

DR	Armor Type
1	Light Cloth, Leather, or Fur
2	Heavy Cloth or Leather
3/1	Light Mail
3/2	Light Scale
3	Light Segmented Plate
4/2	Mail
4/3	Scale
4	Segmented Scale
5/3	Heavy Mail
5	Heavy Scale
5	Heavy Segmented Plate
5	Brigandine
6	Plate
7	Heavy Plate
8	Extra-Heavy Plate
9	Epic Plate

This message was last edited by the player at 08:54, Sun 24 Sept 2017.

Chye Isuel
 player, 866 posts
 Osu! Ora Chye Isuel!
 Dragon descended, Youxia
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 10:26
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Dareos Madrigar (msg # 54):

few people i know born after 1985, even remember willow. xD
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1259 posts
 blue haired
 mountain elf
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 13:55
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Chye Isuel (msg # 59):

Do you have weights and costs of them jareth?
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1194 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 9/10
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 18:31
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Christine Bjorn:
Do you have weights and costs of them jareth?

Yes... but that's more typing than I wish to do right now*.  Do you have Low-Tech or LT: Instant Armor?

Everything except Heavy Plate and Extra-Heavy Plate are right in Instant Armor.


* I can start putting something together later today or tomorrow.
Oly
 player, 935 posts
 Badly disfigured face
 Rank 1 Guild badge
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 18:42
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Jareth Mooncalled (msg # 58):

Brigandine is suddenly much heavier than it was... used to be metal plates on light leather or worn over a light gambeson.  Layering armor was common.

OK Checked  Low Tech and the lighter version is there ... but is considered TL 4
 TL 4  Light Brigandine     DR 3      $900      10 Lbs.

At TL 2 and 3 you have to use the heavier Jack of Plates,  same DR and only $300 but weight is  18 Lbs.
Gorgath
 player, 386 posts
 HP 20/20 FP 11/13
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 19:07
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Oly:
In reply to Jareth Mooncalled (msg # 58):

Brigandine is suddenly much heavier than it was... used to be metal plates on light leather or worn over a light gambeson.  Layering armor was common.

OK Checked  Low Tech and the lighter version is there ... but is considered TL 4
 TL 4  Light Brigandine     DR 3      $900      10 Lbs.

At TL 2 and 3 you have to use the heavier Jack of Plates,  same DR and only $300 but weight is  18 Lbs.


It's actually LIGHTER than it should be.

Base DR of Brigandine is 3, using the Heavy Plate option means each +1 DR is $450 and 5 lbs.

The DR 5 version should cost $1800 and weigh 20 lbs.

It's actually a good deal.

EDIT:

Oddly the Body version is correct but the Legs location is not.

This message was last edited by the player at 19:09, Sun 24 Sept 2017.

Christine Bjorn
 player, 1260 posts
 blue haired
 mountain elf
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 19:25
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Gorgath (msg # 63):

As mentioned, have used LT, but understood this differed a little, and it was the differences that I was interested in. But for future reference, having it all in one place would be good. Including spider silk armour lining...
Gorgath
 player, 387 posts
 HP 20/20 FP 11/13
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 19:27
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
From what I can tell, they changed the Leg cost/weight modifier from 100% to 75%.
Narrator
 GM, 4453 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 20:06
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
The most functional thing for keeping cracker around is a a summonable ally; you were acquiring them for such low fatigue that is effectively what they were. Treat as 62 pt ally constnantly around.
Gorgath
 player, 388 posts
 HP 20/20 FP 11/13
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 22:06
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Gorgath:
From what I can tell, they changed the Leg cost/weight modifier from 100% to 75%.


They moved that missing 25% to the Feet as the Lower shin area.
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1261 posts
 blue haired
 mountain elf
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 22:21
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Narrator:
The most functional thing for keeping cracker around is a a summonable ally; you were acquiring them for such low fatigue that is effectively what they were. Treat as 62 pt ally constantly around.



Ah, OK. why 62 points? Original build was 20 points, and one from summoners is 60 points, right?
Ardenas Barehand
 player, 901 posts
 Human martial artist with
 a few spells on the side.
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 23:28
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Sigh.

This is why I dislike and usually avoid changing rules in the middle of an ongoing game.  Even my leather-clad characters are going to have encumbrance problems if I have to buy new armor for some reason.
Chye Isuel
 player, 867 posts
 Osu! Ora Chye Isuel!
 Dragon descended, Youxia
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 23:38
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
i agree
Narrator
 GM, 4457 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Mon 25 Sep 2017
at 01:34
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Christine Bjorn (msg # 68):

62 points is the 25% value of character base, although Christine's 25% is probably higher. Book value for generic flying elemental is 60, you would get it at that price and it would "level up" with you.
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1262 posts
 blue haired
 mountain elf
Mon 25 Sep 2017
at 08:27
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Narrator (msg # 71):

Ah, cool. So having such an Ally would cost 2 x frequency of appearance. If I go for a frequency of appearance of fairly ofter (9 or less) as I have just 3 cp unused, then I can increase that later right?

Also, if I take an ally, can I use the original template (the custom one) with an increase Dex and IQ, since she can create them, and this is not a temporary one?

In a similar vein, what is the advantage of the Create Elemental Spell over the Summon Elemental spell under the new rules? There is double the cost, but I cant see any advantage now...both last for an hour, and both must use standard templates.
Narrator
 GM, 4459 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Mon 25 Sep 2017
at 21:16
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Christine Bjorn (msg # 72):

Ally cost for 60ish pt character is a base of 1 pt, for "always on" it is 4 pts one that shows up on a 12 or less but can be instantly summoned costs 4 also... and prevents you from having fire in the rain, in the flammable oil shop... appearing on a 15, but summonable costs 6 pts
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1263 posts
 blue haired
 mountain elf
Mon 25 Sep 2017
at 21:37
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Narrator (msg # 73):

Yeah, picked up on that. How unique are they allowed to be though?

Also, what is the advantage of the spell Create Elemental over Summon Elemental?
Narrator
 GM, 4462 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Mon 25 Sep 2017
at 21:40
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Christine Bjorn (msg # 74):

I would prefer they fit the standard templates from summoners and allies.

The advantage is that the created elementals are automatically loyal and do not need reaction rolls to control.
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1264 posts
 blue haired
 mountain elf
Mon 25 Sep 2017
at 21:53
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Narrator (msg # 75):

Ah, Ok, Thanks.
Chye Isuel
 player, 877 posts
 Osu! Ora Chye Isuel!
 Dragon descended, Youxia
Mon 25 Sep 2017
at 23:16
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
i forget if i asked this awhile back, but if maintained, can one rapidly heal oneself my merging with a body of water, with the spell "body of water" like it says you can, in gurps magic 3e/ seems like a good way to heal fast, without needing a priest, or potions.
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1200 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 9/10
Tue 26 Sep 2017
at 00:03
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Chye Isuel:
i forget if i asked this awhile back, but if maintained, can one rapidly heal oneself my merging with a body of water, with the spell "body of water" like it says you can, in gurps magic 3e/ seems like a good way to heal fast, without needing a priest, or potions.

No.  4e's Body of Water does not do this.
Chye Isuel
 player, 880 posts
 Osu! Ora Chye Isuel!
 Dragon descended, Youxia
Tue 26 Sep 2017
at 00:06
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
heavens forbid... :p i thought not, but worth asking.
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1203 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 9/10
Tue 26 Sep 2017
at 04:08
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Something I've just noticed... DFRPG doesn't have Flexible Armor rules, so all armors are treated as rigid, even if 'technically' flexible.

Also, under DFRPG if someone barehand punches Jednesa they have a chance to hurt themselves (same with 'non-weapon' bites and strikes from monsters) as she has DR* 3+.




* That it's Tough Skin no longer matters.
Chye Isuel
 player, 883 posts
Tue 26 Sep 2017
at 05:21
Re: DFRPG adjustments?

This message was deleted by the player at 05:22, Tue 26 Sept 2017.

Narrator
 GM, 4465 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Tue 26 Sep 2017
at 13:49
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Christine Bjorn (msg # 76):

I would prefer the standard
Iskander
 player, 1301 posts
 Iskander Cambriel Almonte
 Valdassyan Adventurer.
Tue 26 Sep 2017
at 16:25
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
what are all the spells allowed to magery 0? anything different??
this is what i have:
AIR COLLEGE
Purify Air
Seek Air
Create Air
No-Smell
Stench
Earth-to Air
Shape Air
Breathe Water
Odor
Destroy Air
Devitalize Air
Wall of Wind
Air Vision
Air Jet
Concussion
Walk on Air
Windstorm
Body of Air
Wind
Essential Air
Resist Lightning
Lightning Armour
Atmosphere Dome
Clouds
Rain
Snow
Storm
Cool
Predict Weather
Warm

ANIMAL COLLEGE
*All spells require the Animal Empathy advantage
Beast-Rouser
Beast-Soother
(Animal) Control
Repel (Animal)
Rider
Rider Within
Beast Possession
Hybrid Control
Repel Hybrids
Master
Beast Summoning
Beast Link
Beast Speech
Beast Seeker

Body Control College
Climbing
Touch
Might
Boost Strength
Frailty
Vigor
Boost Health
Itch
Spasm
Tickle
Pain
Stun
Stop Spasm
Strike Deaf
Strike Dumb
Strike Blind
Clumsiness
Tanglefoot
Roundabout
Fumble
Grace
Boost Dexterity
Balance
Ambidexterity
Reflexes
Cadence
Hinder
Rooted Feet
Perfume
Nauseate
Retch
Hair Growth
Haircut
Debility

Communication and Empathy College
Sense Life
Lend Language
Borrow Language
Gift of Letters
Gift of Tongues
Sense Foes
Sense Emotions
Truthsayer
Mind Reading
Mind Search
Retrogression
Mind Sending
Lend Skill
Borrow Skill
Telepathy
Soul Rider
Control Person
Dispel Possession
Dream Viewing
Dream Sending
Dream Projection
Hide Emotions
Hide Thoughts
Vexation
Persuation
Insignificance
Presence
Compel Lie

Earth College
Seek Earth
Seek Pass
Shape Earth
Earth Vision
Earth to Air
Walk Through Earth
Predict Earth Movement
Essential Earth

Enchantment College
Crystal Ball

Fire College
Ignite Fire
Extenguish Fire
Slow Fire
Fast Fire
Fireproof
Resist Fire
Shape Fire
Smoke
Phantom Flame
Seek Fire
Create Fire
Heat
Cold
Warmth
Resist Cold
Flame Jet
Essential Flame

Food College
Test Food
Cook
Seek Food
Create Food
Essential Food
Season
Decay
Mature
Distill
Water to Wine
Preserve Food
Foul Water
Purify Food
Prepare Game
Poison Food

Gate College
While a few “Gate” spells have no Magery prereq, all of those spells have prereqs that do require at least Magery 2.

Healing College
Lend Energy (With Empathy advantage)
Share Vitality
Lend Vitality
Awaken
Body Reading
Restore Memory
Minor Healing
Restore Sight
Restore Hearing
Restore Speech
Relieve Sickness
Share Vitality
Stop Bleeding
Relieve Madness
Remove Contagion
Resist Disease
Resist Poison
Detect Poison

Illusion & Creation College
Simple Illusion
Complex Illusion
Know Illusion
Illusion Shell
Illusion Disguise
Inscribe
Independence
Initiative

Knowledge College
Small Vision
Tell Time
Alarm
Measurment
Tell Position
Test Load
Glass Wall

Light & Darkness College
Light
Colors
Mirror
Continual Light
Wall of Light
Glow
Flash
Darkness
Blackout
Shape Darkness
Gloom
Blur
Invisibility
Hide
Hawk Vision
Bright Vision
Night Vision
Infravision
Dark Vision
See Invisible
Shape Light
Light jet
Remove Shadow
Remove Reflection

Making & Breaking College
Find Weakness
Weaken
Restore
Rejoin
Stiffen
Knot
Fasten
Clean
Soilproof
Dye
Copy
Inscribe
Mapmaker
Transparency

Meta College
None

Mind Control College
Alertness
Rear Vision
Dull (Sense)
Dullness
Foollishness
Daze
Mass Daze
Fascinate
Encrypt
Sleep
Peacfull Sleep
Mass Sleep
Mental Stun
Disorient
Drunkenness
Wisdom
Boost (IQ)
Memorize
Fear
Bravery
Berserker
Loyalty
Emotion Control
Will Lock
Lure
Panic
Terror

Movement College
Haste
Glue
Grease

Necromantic College
Turn Zombie (If Holy)
Final Rest (If Holy or has Spirit Empathy)
Steal Energy
Steal Vitality
Skull Spirit
Animate Shadow
Weaken Blood

Plant College
Seek Plant
Identify Plant
Shape Plant
Pollen Cloud
False Tracks
Plant Vision
Heal Plant
Hide Path
Walk Through Plants
Walk Through Wood
Forest Warning
Plant Sense
Plant Control
Plant Growth
Blight
Blossom
Wither Plant
Blossom
Conceal
Tangle Growth
Bless Plants
Essential Wood
Animate Plant

Protection & Warning College
Sense Danger
Watchdog
Nightingale
Sense Observation
Weather Dome
Atmosphere Dome
Resist Pressure
Freedom
Reflect Gaze

Sound College
Sound
Voices
Silver Toungue
Imitate Voice
Garble
Silence
Hush
Mage-Stealth
Wall of Silence
Noise
Thunderclap
Great Voice
Sound Jet
Alter Voice
Resist Sound
Sound Vision

Technological College
*Many Tech spells are technological skills (B168), and must be learned at a particular TL
Seek Machine
Reveal Function
Magnetic Vision
Seek Power
Test Fuel
Preserve Fuel
Seek Fuel
Purify Fuel
Spectrum Vision
Radio Hearing
Essential Fuel
Irradiate
See Radiation
Seek Radiation
Resist Radiation
Radiation Jet
Seek Plastic
Identify Plastic
Identify Metal

Water College
Seek Water
Seek Coastline
Purify Water
Foul Water
Create Water
Destroy Water
Dehydrate
Dry Spring
Create Spring
Geyser
Icy Weapon
Icy Missiles
Shape Water
Umbrella
Resist Water
Water Jet
Current
Essential Water
Tide
Snow Shoes
Whirlpool
Walk on Water
Water Vision
Ice Sphere
Ice Dagger
Boil Water
Steam Jet
Create Steam
Condence Steam
Coolness
Freeze
Melt ice
Snow Jet
Create Ice
Body of Water

Weather College
Clouds
Rain
Frost
Snow
Hail
Storm
Cool
Predict Weather
Warm
Fog
Waves
Cloud Walking
Wind

This message was last edited by the player at 00:35, Wed 27 Sept 2017.

Ardenas Barehand
 player, 906 posts
 Human martial artist with
 a few spells on the side.
Wed 27 Sep 2017
at 09:08
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Wow, that's a longer list than I knew.  Wish I'd had that handy when I was running a campaign in a high mana region (anyone who knows a spell can cast it, unless it or a prerequisite requires Magery).

If you have high mana, an ordinary (well, okay, very smart, but otherwise ordinary) individual willing to spend a lot of time in study could become quite the hedge wizard.
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1303 posts
 blue haired
 mountain elf
Wed 15 Nov 2017
at 03:37
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Narrator:
In reply to Kirpich Rockson (msg # 31):
... earth elemental build. They eat rocks, like Gorons from Legend of Zelda.


Doesn't Eat or Drink represents nothing at all, not quite the case here.

Would this be represented by

Doesn’t Eat or Drink                                       [10]  (Standard for all elementals)
Dependency (Rocks, Very Common, 1/Day)                     [-15]
 or
Restricted Diet (Rocks, Very Common)                       [-10]

For fire elementals, replace rocks with being in fire for an hour.
Narrator
 GM, 4600 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Wed 15 Nov 2017
at 16:38
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Christine Bjorn (msg # 85):

Some have doesnt eat or drink, and gluttony- can get by without, but enjoys.

The fire elementals don't need to eat, but not doing it affects their bad temper.
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1304 posts
 blue haired
 mountain elf
Thu 16 Nov 2017
at 00:12
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Narrator (msg # 86):

Ah, ok. So not needed, just wanted.
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1337 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 10/10
Fri 16 Mar 2018
at 05:11
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Are we using the ST rules from DFRPG Adventures pg 98, or the ST rules from Basic?



I'm coming up with a new Archer Character and would like to know...

DFRPG GURPS thread at sjgames for reference:

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=156287
Narrator
 GM, 4983 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Fri 16 Mar 2018
at 15:07
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Jareth Mooncalled (msg # 88):

Lets go with that, but now I wonderbif there is a ST based cost to  bows...
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1338 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 10/10
Fri 16 Mar 2018
at 19:39
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Narrator:
Lets go with that, but now I wonderbif there is a ST based cost to  bows...

There is not.  Just like there isn't a ST based cost to melee weapons, thrown weapons, or crossbows*.


* Arguably buying larger minimum ST crossbows is a "ST based cost", but that's a weak argument.  Reasonably you could rule that you can't have a Bow at more 3x it's listed minimum ST (as this is the rule for Crossbows).  This means in order to have a ST 35 Composite Bow it would have to be an SM+1 Composite Bow... quick napkin conversion...

ST 35 Composite Bow, SM+1, Dam thr+4 imp, Acc 3, Range x20/x25, Weight 8/0.2, Shots 1(2), Cost $1350, ST 15†, Bulk -7*

† Requires two hands to load and fire regardless of ST.
* Bulk 11 for anyone not SM+1

For an Elven version... it's 22,950$... might as well go ahead at that price and make it a Balanced Elven SM+1 Composite Bow for 28,350$...



So... no.  I won't be taking that at the start (it's waaaaaaaaaaaaay too expensive, that's Filthy Rich levels of starting Wealth).  But a Longbow...  that's just about doable (it's a mere 6,300$, does 1 less damage, is ST 17†, has  less range, and +1 Bulk).
Narrator
 GM, 4987 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Fri 16 Mar 2018
at 19:55
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
That is actually viable... and only 12cp.
I imagine titans can use ST 40 crossbows... and still take 10 seconds to load, but fire cabers tipped with spiked pot helms.
Oly
 player, 982 posts
 Badly disfigured face
 Rank 1 Guild badge
Thu 26 Apr 2018
at 16:25
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
FWIW, I will be away Fri-Mon and probably unable to post ... including all my sub-characters.
Narrator
 GM, 6769 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Fri 6 Sep 2019
at 17:39
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Oly (msg # 92):

Here is the DFRPG armor list for quick reference:


https://drive.google.com/file/...17/view?usp=drivesdk
Narrator
 GM, 7348 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Fri 31 Jan 2020
at 01:52
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
magic items - assembled by evileyeore
We're using the rules out of DFRPG (you can't really use Magic's pricing anymore):

DFRPG Magic Items (1)

Armor and Shields
Spell Effects Base Item Cost Prefix Suffix Notes
Continual Light light equal to torch Armor/Shield $8,000 Glowing of Light
Defending Shield +1 to Block Shield $10,000 Defending of Defense
Defending Shield +2 to Block Shield $20,000 Interposing of Interposing
Defending Shield +3 to Block Shield $40,000 Interposing of Interposing
Deflect +1 Defense Bonus Armor/Shield $2,000 Warding of Warding [1, 2]
Deflect +2 Defense Bonus Armor/Shield $10,000 Deflecting of Deflection [1, 2]
Deflect +3 Defense Bonus Armor/Shield $40,000 Deflecting of Deflection [1, 2]
Deflect +4 Defense Bonus Armor/Shield $160,000 Deflecting of Deflection [1, 2]
Deflect +5 Defense Bonus Armor/Shield $400,000 Deflecting of Deflection [1, 2]
Fortify +1 Damage Resistance Armor $1,000 Unyielding of Solidity [1]
Fortify +2 Damage Resistance Armor $4,000 Impenetrable of Invulnerability [1]
Fortify +3 Damage Resistance Armor $16,000 Impenetrable of Invulnerability [1]
Fortify +4 Damage Resistance Armor $60,000 Impenetrable of Invulnerability [1]
Fortify +5 Damage Resistance Armor $160,000 Impenetrable of Invulnerability [1]
Lighten -25% from weight Armor/Shield $2,000 Light of Lightness [1]
Lighten -50% from weight Armor/Shield $10,000 Weightless of Weightlessness [1]


Notes
[1] Cost is for a suit of armor. Piecewise armor can have Deflect or Fortify that adds Defense Bonus or Damage Resistance only vs. attacks on that location, or Lighten for just the weight of that piece. Use 10% of cost for head, 35% for body, 15% for arms, 5% for hands, 25% for legs, or 10% for feet. Further halve cost for a breastplate or just one limb or extremity.
[2] Defense Bonus adds to that of any mundane shield. If both shield and armor have Deflect, only the highest magical DB applies. See Defense Bonus (Exploits, p. 47).



Weapons and Ammo
Spell Effects Base Item Cost Prefix Suffix Notes
Accuracy +1 to hit Weapon $5,000 Accurate of Seeking
Accuracy +1 to hit Projectile $25 True of True Flight
Accuracy +2 to hit Weapon $20,000 Accurate of Seeking
Accuracy +2 to hit Projectile $100 True of True Flight
Accuracy +3 to hit Weapon $100,000 Accurate of Seeking
Accuracy +3 to hit Projectile $10,000 True of True Flight [1]
Continual Light light equal to torch Weapon $8,000 Glowing of Light
Corrosive Weapon +2 acid Melee Weapon $18,000 Corrosive of Corroding [2, 3]
Corrosive Weapon +2 acid Missile Weapon $22,000 Corrosive of Corroding [2, 3]
Corrosive Weapon +2 acid Projectile $75 Corrosive of Corroding [2, 3]
Dancing Weapon dances Melee Weapon see p. 7 Dancing of Dancing
Defending Weapon +1 to Parry Melee Weapon $10,000 Defending of Defense
Defending Weapon +2 to Parry Melee Weapon $20,000 Interposing of Interposing
Defending Weapon +3 to Parry Melee Weapon $40,000 Interposing of Interposing
Flaming Weapon +2 fire Melee Weapon $15,400 Flaming of Flame [3]
Flaming Weapon +2 fire Missile Weapon $20,400 Flaming of Flame [3]
Flaming Weapon +2 fire Projectile $75 Fire of Burning [3]
Holy Weapon +2 holy Melee Weapon $15,000 Consecrated of Cleansing [3]
Holy Weapon +2 holy Missile Weapon $20,000 Consecrated of Cleansing [3]
Holy Weapon +2 holy Projectile $75 Consecrated of Cleansing [3]
Icy Weapon +2 cold Melee Weapon $17,000 Icy of Ice [3]
Icy Weapon +2 cold Missile Weapon $20,500 Icy of Ice [3]
Icy Weapon +2 cold Projectile $75 Cold of Freezing [3]
Lightning Weapon +2 electrical Melee Weapon $15,300 Crackling of Shocking [3]
Lightning Weapon +2 electrical Missile Weapon $20,400 Lightning of Lightning [3]
Lightning Weapon +2 electrical Projectile $75 Lightning of Lightning [3]
Loyal Weapon returns to hand Weapon $15,000/lb. Returning of Returning [4]
Penetrating Weapon armor divisor (2) Melee Weapon $5,000 Penetrating of Penetration [5]
Penetrating Weapon armor divisor (2) Missile Weapon $10,000 Penetrating of Penetration [5]
Penetrating Weapon armor divisor (2) Projectile $25 Burrowing of Piercing [5]
Penetrating Weapon armor divisor (3) Melee Weapon $15,000 Penetrating of Penetration [5]
Penetrating Weapon armor divisor (3) Missile Weapon $30,000 Penetrating of Penetration [5]
Penetrating Weapon armor divisor (3) Projectile $75 Burrowing of Piercing [5]
Penetrating Weapon armor divisor (5) Melee Weapon $50,000 Penetrating of Penetration [5]
Penetrating Weapon armor divisor (5) Missile Weapon $100,000 Penetrating of Penetration [5]
Penetrating Weapon armor divisor (5) Projectile $5,000 Burrowing of Piercing [5]
Penetrating Weapon armor divisor (10) Melee Weapon $150,000 Penetrating of Penetration [5]
Penetrating Weapon armor divisor (10) Missile Weapon $300,000 Penetrating of Penetration [5]
Penetrating Weapon armor divisor (10) Projectile $15,000 Burrowing of Piercing [5]
Penetrating Weapon ignores DR Melee Weapon $500,000 Penetrating of Penetration [6]
Penetrating Weapon ignores DR Missile Weapon $1,000,000 Penetrating of Penetration [6]
Penetrating Weapon ignores DR Projectile $50,000 Burrowing of Piercing [6]
Puissance +1 damage Melee Weapon $5,000 Mighty of Smiting
Puissance +1 damage Missile Weapon $10,000 Strongarm of Striking
Puissance +1 damage Projectile $25 Swift of Impact
Puissance +2 damage Melee Weapon $20,000 Mighty of Smiting
Puissance +2 damage Missile Weapon $40,000 Strongarm of Striking
Puissance +2 damage Projectile $100 Swift of Impact
Puissance +3 damage Melee Weapon $100,000 Mighty of Smiting
Puissance +3 damage Missile Weapon $200,000 Strongarm of Striking
Puissance +3 damage Projectile $10,000 Swift of Impact [1]
Shatterproof unbreakable Weapon $8,000 Eternal of Durability
Steelwraith see p. 7 Weapon/Projectile $5,000/lb. Steelwraith of Steelwraith

Notes
[1] Available in a one-use version for $500; see Permanent or Expendable? (p. 7).
[2] Keep track of added corrosion damage even if it fails to penetrate armor. Every five points removes one point of DR from the target location.
[3] Follow-up. Adds injury of listed type if attack pierces DR. Doesn’t add basic damage.
[4] See Loyal Weapon (Exploits, p. 79).
[5] Divides target’s DR by 2, 3, 5, or 10. See Armor Divisors (Exploits, pp. 52-53).
[6] Ignores target’s DR



Common Item Enchantments
Spell Base Item Cost Page Notes
Create Food Container $8,000 per meal/day 32
Fireproof Any $3,000/lb. 30 [1]
Invisibility Any $10,000/50 lbs. 47 [1]
Magic Resistance Any $4,000/level 51 [1, 2]
Magic Staff Stick $30 9 [3]
Resist Acid Any $1,000/lb. 70 [1, 4]
Scryguard Any $1,000/lb. 52 [1, 5]
Steelwraith Any Metallic $5,000/lb. 28 [1]

Notes
[1] Affects item, not user.
[2] Maximum 10 levels; penalty affects spells cast on or from item.
[3] Cost is per type of magic: clerical, druidic, or wizardly. Typical lengths are wand (baton, $50, 1 lb.), rod (jo, $40, 2 lbs.), and staff (quarterstaff, $40, 4 lbs.). When casting, extends caster’s reach by one (wand or rod) or two (staff) yards.
[4] Triple cost to resist alkahest!
[5] Item resists Information spells with Power 15. On a container, this also benefits anything inside while it’s closed.
Narrator
 GM, 7349 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Fri 31 Jan 2020
at 01:52
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
hmm this might need formatting
Chye Isuel
 player, 1630 posts
 Osu! Ora Chye Iseul!
 Dragon descended, Youxia
Fri 31 Jan 2020
at 02:09
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
everything is prohibitively expensive :(
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1864 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 4/10
Fri 31 Jan 2020
at 06:39
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Here ya go boss.  My cheat sheets for the game I never got off the ground...



MELEE WEAPONS TABLES
WeaponDamageReachParryCostWeightSTNotes
AXE/MACE (DX-5, Flail-4, or Two-Handed Axe/Mace-3)
Axesw+2 cut10U$50411 
Hatchetsw cut10$4028[1]
Knobbed Clubsw+1 cr10$2028 
Macesw+3 cr10U$50512[1]
Picksw+1 imp10U$70310[2, 3]
Sickle or Kamasw cut10$4028 
orsw imp10U8[2]
Small Axesw+1 cut10U$45310 
Small Macesw+2 cr10U$35310[1]
Small Throwing Axesw+1 cut10U$50310[1]
Throwing Axesw+2 cut10U$60411[1]
        
BOXING, BRAWLING, KARATE, or DX
Barehanded Punchthr-1 crC0[4]
Brass Knucklesthr crC0$100.25[4]
Cestusthr crC0$501[4, 5]
Punch w. Gauntletsthr crC0[4]
Tonfathr crC0$401.5Butt jab [4]
        
BOXING, BRAWLING, or DX
Cutlassthr crC0$5002Hilt punch [4, 5]
        
BRAWLING or DX
Bitethr-1 cr.CNo[4]
Blackjackthr crC0$2017[4]
BRAWLING-2, KARATE-2, or DX-2       
Kickthr crC, 1No[4, 6]
Kick w. Bootsthr+1 crC, 1No[4, 6]
        
BROADSWORD (DX-5, Rapier-4, Saber-4, Shortsword-2, or Two-Handed Sword-4)
Bastard Swordsw+1 cut1, 20U$750511 
orthr+2 imp20U11 
Broadswordsw+1 cut10$600310 
orthr+2 imp1010 
Cavalry Sabersw+1 cut10$500310 
orthr+1 imp1010 
Clubsw+1 cr10$10310 
orthr+1 cr1010 
Edged Rapiersw cut1, 20$1,000310 
orthr+1 imp1, 2010 
Estoc or Tuckthr+2 imp10$500310[3]
orsw+1 cr1010 
Josw cr10$1029 
orthr cr109 
Katanasw+1 cut1, 20$650511 
orthr+1 imp1011 
Large Falchionsw+2 cut10U$6254.511 
orthr-1 imp10U11 
Longswordsw+1 cut10$700410 
orthr+2 imp1, 2010 
        
FLAIL (DX-6, Axe/Mace-4, or Two-Handed Flail-3)
Bolassw+1 cr1-2U$2027[1, 7]
Morningstarsw+3 cr10U$80612[7]
Nunchakusw+1 cr10U$2027[7]
GARROTE (DX-4)       
Garrotespec.CNo$2neg.[8]
        
JITTE/SAI (DX-5, Main-Gauche-4, or Shortsword-3)
Juttesw cr10$4016[9, 10]
orthr cr106 
Saisw cr10$601.57[9, 10]
orthr imp107[1]
        
KNIFE (DX-4, Main-Gauche-3, or Shortsword-3)
Daggerthr-1 impC-1$200.255[1]
Katarsw-3 cutC, 1-1$5016[5, 11]
orthr+1 impC-16[3]
Kukrisw-1 cutC, 10$501.57 
orthr-1 impC07 
Large Knifesw-2 cutC, 1-1$4016 
orthr impC-16[1]
Long Knifesw-1 cutC, 10$1201.57 
orthr impC, 107 
Main-Gauchesw-3 cutC, 10$501.256[5]
orthr impC06 
Short Batonsw-1 crC, 1-1$100.55 
orthr crC-15 
Small Knifesw-3 cutC, 1-1$300.55 
orthr-1 impC-15[1]
Stilettothr-1 impC-1$200.255[3]
Wooden Stakethr(0.5) impC-1$40.55[1]
        
KUSARI (DX-6, Two-Handed Flail-4, or Whip-3)
Kusarisw+2 cr1-4*-2U$70511[7, 9]
orthr+2 cr1-4*-2U11[7, 9]
        
POLEARM (DX-5, Spear-4, Staff-4, or Two-Handed Axe/Mace-4)
Dueling Glaivesw+2 cut1, 2*0U$8069† 
orthr+3 imp1, 2*09† 
Dueling Halberdsw+4 cut1, 2*0U$1201012† 
orsw+3 imp1, 2*0U12†[2]
orthr+3 imp1, 2*011† 
Glaivesw+3 cut2, 3*0U$100811‡ 
orthr+3 imp1-3*0U11† 
Halberdsw+5 cut2, 3*0U$1501213‡ 
orsw+4 imp2, 3*0U13‡[2]
orthr+3 imp1-3*0U12† 
Monk’s Spadesw+1 cut1, 2*0U$10069† 
orsw+2 cr1, 2*0U9† 
orthr+2 cut1, 2*09† 
Naginatasw+2 cut1, 2*0U$10069† 
orthr+3 imp209† 
Pollaxesw+4 cr1, 2*0U$1201012† 
orsw+3 imp1, 2*0U12†[2]
orthr+3 imp1, 2*011† 
        
RAPIER (DX-5, Broadsword-4, Main-Gauche-3, Saber-3, or Smallsword-3)
Edged Rapiersw cut1, 20F$1,000310 
orthr+1 imp1, 20F10 
Light Edged Rapiersw‑1 cut10F$7002.258 
orthr+1 imp10F8 
Light Rapierthr+1 imp10F$40028 
Rapierthr+1 imp1, 20F$5002.759 
        
SABER (DX-5, Broadsword-4, Main-Gauche-3, Rapier-3, Shortsword-4, or Smallsword-3)
Sabersw-1 cut10F$70028 
orthr+1 imp10F8 
        
SHIELD (DX-4 or other Shield at -2)
Shield Bashthr cr1Novar.var. 
Shield Bash w. Spikethr+1 cr1No+$205 
        
SHORTSWORD (DX-5, Broadsword-2, Jitte/Sai-3, Knife-4, Saber-4, Smallsword-4, or Tonfa-3)
Batonsw cr10$2016 
orthr cr106 
Cutlasssw cut10$50028[5]
orthr+1 imp108 
Falchionsw+1 cut10$400310 
orthr‑2 imp1010 
Large Katarsw‑1 cut10$40028[5, 11]
orthr+2 imp108[3]
Long Knifesw‑1 cut10$1201.57 
orthr impC, 107 
Short Batonsw‑1 crC, 1-1$100.55 
orthr crC-15 
Shortswordsw cut10$40028 
orthr+1 imp108 
Small Falchionsw cut10$20028 
orthr-2 imp108 
        
SMALLSWORD (DX-5, Main-Gauche-3, Rapier-3, Saber-3, or Shortsword-4)
Dress Smallswordthr impC, 10F$30015 
Short Staffsw cr10F$2016 
orthr cr10F6 
Smallswordthr+1 imp10F$4001.55 
        
SPEAR (DX-5, Polearm-4, or Staff-2)
Heavy Spearthr+4 imp2, 3*0U$90611† 
orthr+3 cut30U11† 
Javelinthr+1 imp10$3026[1]
Long Spearthr+2 imp2, 3*0U$60511 
two handsthr+3 imp2, 3*010† 
Pikethr+3 imp4, 5*0U$801312† 
Short Spearthr+1 imp10$3026 
orthr cut106 
Spearthr+2 imp1*0$40410[1]
two handsthr+3 imp1, 2*09† 
Tridentthr+3(0.5) imp1*0U$80511[12]
two handsthr+4(0.5) imp1, 2*010†[12]
        
STAFF (DX-5, Polearm-4, or Spear-2)
Josw+1 cr12$1026† 
orthr+1 cr126† 
Long Staffsw+2 cr2, 32$15510† 
orthr+2 cr2, 3210† 
Polearmsw+2 cr1, 20Uvar.var.var.†Blunt pole [13]
orthr+2 cr1, 20var.†Blunt tip [13]
Quarterstaff or Bosw+2 cr1, 22$1047† 
orthr+2 cr1, 227† 
        
TONFA (DX-5 or Shortsword-3)
Tonfasw cr10$401.57[11]
orthr crC, 107 
        
TWO-HANDED AXE/MACE (DX-5, Axe/Mace-3, Polearm-4, or Two-Handed Flail-4)
Combat Shovelsw+2 cut10U$100511†[14]
orsw+2 cr10U11† 
Great Axesw+4 cut1, 2*0U$100812‡ 
Humongous Clubsw+6 cr1, 2*0U$1001516‡ 
Long Axesw+3 cut1, 2*0U$75611‡ 
Maulsw+5 cr1, 2*0U$801213‡ 
Scythesw+3 cut10U$15511‡ 
orsw+1 imp10U11‡[2]
Warhammersw+4 imp1, 2*0U$100712‡[2, 3]
        
TWO-HANDED FLAIL (DX-6, Flail-3, Kusari-4, or Two-Handed Axe/Mace-4)
Flailsw+4 cr1, 2*0U$100813†[7]
        
TWO-HANDED SWORD (DX-5 or Broadsword-4)
Bastard Swordsw+2 cut1, 20$750510† 
orthr+3 imp2010† 
Greatswordsw+3 cut1, 20$900712† 
orthr+3 imp2012† 
Josw+1 cr10$1028† 
orthr+1 cr108† 
Katanasw+2 cut1, 20$650510† 
orthr+1 imp1010† 
Longswordsw+1 cut10$70049† 
orthr+3 imp1, 209† 
Naginatasw+3 cut20U$10069† 
orthr+3 imp209† 
Quarterstaff or Bosw+2 cr1, 20$1049† 
orthr+1 cr209† 
        
WHIP (DX-5 or Kusari-3)
Bullwhipsw-5(0.5) cr1-7*-2U$20/yd.0.5/yd.var.[9, 15]
Spiked Whipsw-2(0.5) cr1-7*-2U$20/yd.2/yd.var.[9, 15]

Notes
[1] Can be thrown. See the Ranged Weapons Table (pp. 103-105).
[2] May get stuck; see Picks (Exploits, p. 39).
[3] Specifically designed to target chinks in armor (Exploits, p. 37). Reduce the penalty for this by ‑2.
[4] Armed or unarmed, this attack receives damage bonuses for whichever of Boxing (p. 93), Brawling (pp. 93-94), or Karate (p. 94) is used to deliver it. Claws, like those of catfolk, don’t affect damage with blows assisted by gauntlets, boots, or weapons.
[5] Gives the hand (only) DR 4. A cestus is a glove, mutually exclusive with other gloves. In all other cases, this is a metal hilt; DR is cumulative with that of gloves, but the hilt is too cramped to accommodate metal gauntlets.  This counts as a basket hilt.
[6] If you miss with a kick, roll vs. DX to avoid falling.
[7] Attempts to parry flails and kusaris are at ‑4; knives and fencing weapons (“F” parry) can’t parry at all! Attempts to block such weapons are at ‑2.
[8] A rope garrote; a wire one costs $10. See Garrotes (Exploits, p. 39).
[9] Gets +2 to disarm when wielded with this skill; see Attacking Weapons (Exploits, p. 37).
[10] Improved disarm on your turn after a parry; see Swords (p. 81).
[11] Use Boxing, Brawling, or Karate parry if better than weapon parry.
[12] Tridents are awkward and always have ‑2 to hit, but there’s no additional ‑2 for attacking to disarm; see Attacking Weapons (Exploits, p. 37). The many points give the target ‑1 to Dodge, +1 to Block or Parry.
[13] The butt of a dueling glaive, dueling halberd, naginata, or pollaxe used as a staff. Cost, weight, and ST are as listed for the weapon under the Polearm skill.
[14] Fully functional as a digging shovel. Used by gravedigging undead-slayers.
[15] Specify maximum reach (1-7 yards) when bought. Cost and weight are per yard. The bullwhip requires ST 3, +1 per yard. The spiked whip requires ST 5, +1 per yard. Many special rules apply; see Whips (Exploits, p. 39).


RANGED WEAPON TABLES
WeaponDamageAccRangeWeightShotsCostSTBulkNotes
BLOWPIPE (DX-6)
Blowpipe1d-3 pi-1x41/0.051(2)$302-6[1, 2]
          
BOLAS (No default)
Bolasthr-1 cr0x32T(1)$207-2[3]
          
BOW (DX-5)
Composite Bowthr+3 imp3x20/x254/0.11(2)$90010†-7 
Longbowthr+2 imp3x15/x203/0.11(2)$20011†-8 
Regular Bowthr+1 imp2x15/x202/0.11(2)$10010†-7 
Short Bowthr imp1x10/x151.5/0.11(2)$507†-6 
          
CROSSBOW (DX-4)
Composite crossbowthr+5 imp4x25/x307/0.061(4)$9508†-6 
Crossbowthr+4 imp4x20/x256/0.061(4)$1507†-6 
Pistol crossbowthr+2 imp1x15/x204/0.061(4)$1507-4[2]
Proddthr+4 pi2x20/x256/0.061(4)$1507†-6 
          
LASSO (No default)
Lariatspec.0103T(2)$407†-2[3]
          
NET (Cloak-5)
Large Netspec.1spec.20T(1)$4011-6[2, 3, 4]
Melee Netspec.1spec.5T(1)$208-4[3, 4]
          
SLING (DX-6)
Heavy Slingsw+2 cr1x3/x61/11(2)$208†-5 
Slingsw pi0x6/x100.5/0.051(2)$206-4[2]
Staff Slingsw+1 pi1x10/x152/0.051(2)$207†-6 
          
SPEAR THROWER (DX-5 or Thrown Weapon (Spear)-4)
Atlatl11(1)$20[2]
with Dartsw-1 imp1x3/x41$205-3[5]
with Javelinsw+1 imp3x2/x32$306-4[5]
Woomera21(1)$40[2]
with Spearsw+3 imp2x1.5/x24$409-6[5]
          
THROWN WEAPON (AXE/MACE) (DX-4)
Hatchetsw cut1x1.5/x2.52T(1)$408-2[6]
Macesw+3 cr1x0.5/x15T(1)$5012-4 
Small Macesw+2 cr1x1/x1.53T(1)$3510-3 
Small Throwing Axesw+1 cut1x1/x1.53T(1)$5010-3[6]
Throwing Axesw+2 cut2x1/x1.54T(1)$6011-3[6]
          
THROWN WEAPON (DART) (DX-4 or Throwing-2)
Throwing Dartthr imp1x2.5/x3.51T(1)$206-2 
          
THROWN WEAPON (DISC) (DX-4 or Throwing-2)
Light Shieldthr+2 cr2x4/x61T(1)6-3[7] 
Small Shieldthr+2 cr2x1/x31T(1)8-4[7] 
          
THROWN WEAPON (HARPOON) (DX-4 or Thrown Weapon (Spear)-2)
Harpoonthr+5 imp2x1/x1.56T(1)$6011-6[8]
          
THROWN WEAPON (KNIFE) (DX-4)
Daggerthr-1 imp0x0.5/x10.25T(1)$205-1 
Large Knifethr imp0x0.8/x1.51T(1)$406-2[9]
Large Throwing Knifethr imp1x1/x21T(1)$406-1 
Saithr imp0x0.8/x1.51.5T(1)$607-3 
Small Knifethr-1 imp0x0.5/x10.5T(1)$305-1 
Small Throwing Knifethr-1 imp1x0.8/x1.50.5T(1)$3050[9]
Wooden Stakethr(0.5) imp0x0.5/x10.5T(1)$45-2 
          
THROWN WEAPON (SHURIKEN) (DX-4 or Throwing-2)
Spike Shurikenthr-2 imp1x0.5/x10.1T(1)$350 
Star Shurikenthr-1 cut1x0.5/x10.1T(1)$350 
          
THROWN WEAPON (SPEAR) (DX-4, Spear Thrower-4, or Thrown Weapon (Harpoon)-2)
Javelinthr+1 imp3x1.5/x2.52T(1)$306-4 
Spearthr+3 imp2x1/x1.54T(1)$409-6 
          
THROWN WEAPON (STICK) (DX-4)
Boomerangsw cr2x6/x101T(1)$206-2 

Notes
[1] Usually poisoned (Poisons, pp. 115-116), but must penetrate DR to deliver poison.
[2] Requires two hands to ready, but only one hand to attack.
[3] May entangle or ensnare target; see Special Rules for Thrown Weapons (Exploits, pp. 43-45).
[4] A net has no 1/2D Range. Max Range is (ST/2 + Skill/5) for a large net and (ST + Skill/5) for a melee net; round down. A melee net can also be held and used as a melee weapon with reach 1, 2.
[5] An atlatl hurls standard throwing darts or javelins; a woomera hurls standard spears. Compare the Thrown Weapon (Dart) and Thrown Weapon (Spear) listings.
[6] Dedicated throwing axes and hatchets that lack proper handles cost $10 less, but give -2 to skill as melee weapons (and thus -1 to Parry).
[7] Shield must having the Throwing Quality.
[8] Tethered. See Harpoons (Exploits, p. 44).
[9] In melee combat, small and large throwing knives work, respectively, as small and large knives, but give -2 to skill (and thus -1 to Parry on top of the usual -1 to Parry for knives).

AMMUNITION TABLES
WeaponProjectileCostWeightPer PoundNotes
BlowpipeDart$0.100.0520 ($2)[1]
Bow (any)Arrow$20.110 ($20) 
Crossbow (any)Bolt$20.0616 ($32) 
Heavy SlingShaped Rock$111 ($1) 
 Unshaped Rock$011 ($0)[2]
ProddLead Pellet$0.100.0616 ($1.60) 
Sling or Staff SlingLead Bullet$0.100.0616 ($1.60)[3]
 Shaped Stone$0.050.0520 ($1) 
 Unshaped Stone$00.0520 ($0)[2]

Notes
[1] Usually poisoned. Add the cost of one dose of poison per dart.
[2] Ordinary rocks and stones can be found almost anywhere (in combat, make a Scrounging roll), but are less accurate: ‑1 to hit.
[3] Lead bullets give +1 damage and double range.

Bodkin Point: Narrow, hardened point for piercing armor. Changes damage type to piercing and adds an armor divisor of (2), halving the target’s DR. Cost and weight are unchanged.

Cutting Point: Broad, edged points for slicing and dicing from afar. Changes damage type to cutting. Cost and weight are unchanged.

Flaming: Oil-soaked bundle behind the head of any regular, bodkin, or cutting arrow or bolt. Takes a Ready maneuver to ignite before use (assuming you have flame!). Must be fired within three seconds of ignition. Clumsy in flight (‑2 to hit), but does one point of burning damage as a follow-up; see Follow-Ups (Exploits, p. 56). Add $2 after any cost factors; no appreciable effect on weight.


Weapon Modifiers

Fist Load: Blackjack, brass knuckles, or cestus.
Melee Weapon: Any weapon on the Melee Weapons Table (pp. 98-103).
Metal Weapon: Any melee weapon, thrown weapon, or projectile capable of cutting, impaling, or piercing damage, save for a rock or wooden stake. Brass knuckles, bullets, juttes, kusaris, maces, morningstars, mauls, and pellets also have enough metal to count.
Projectile: Anything in Pass the Ammunition! (p. 104) but an unshaped rock or stone.
Stick: Any atlatl, baton, boomerang, club, jo, staff, stake, or woomera.
Thrown Weapon: Anything on the Ranged Weapons Table (pp. 103-105) with Shots “T.”
Improvised weapons can’t have modifiers – though random items can still be made by dwarves, made of silver, etc.
Each modifier has a cost factor (CF). Modifiers are “stackable” except as noted. To find final weapon cost, add CF for the chosen modifiers and then multiply the weapon’s list cost by (1 + total CF).

(Some of these rules are taken from Low-Tech Companion 2 "Weapon Design", some from DF 11 Treasure tables, the rest from DFRPG Adventurers.)

Axe Head: A swung, hafted weapon can have an axe head behind its striking head. This inflicts cutting damage. On a swung impaling weapon (e.g., pick), this is at +1 relative to its impaling attack. On a swung crushing weapon, this is at -1 with respect to its crushing attack. On an axe, simply use the listed damage for either head! An axe with two heads is “double-bitted.” The second head is mostly useful if the first one breaks; on a “broken weapon” result from a critical failure, only one blade breaks and the weapon can still be used. Turning it to use the backup head is a free action. Base cost is +$30.Weight is +1 lb. Applicability: Swung, hafted weapons.

Armor-Piercer: The weapon is optimized for penetrating armor. Its impaling attack gets -1 to basic damage but gains an armor divisor of (2). If it has multiple impaling attack modes, some or all of the heads may be so designed. Decide this when the weapon is forged; it doesn’t affect cost. For swords and knives with this modification, change any cutting attack to crushing; other weapons are unaffected. CF is +3 for arrows, swords, knives, and other blades; +9 for all other weapons. No other stats change. Applicability: Melee or thrown weapons, or missiles, capable of impaling damage.

Balanced*: +1 to skill with a melee or thrown weapon, or a projectile – or +1 Acc for a blowpipe, bow, or crossbow. Off limits for fist loads and sticks. Any allowed weapon: +4 CF.

Barbs: Harpoons and war arrows are normally barbed at no extra cost. Certain other impaling weapons can be made barbed. Such barbs are generally raked cut-outs, not extra bits that stick out and reduce penetration. They don’t affect damage – but pulling the weapon out requires a ST roll and inflicts half the injury it caused going in, like a pick (see pp. B405-406). These rules don’t apply when using the barbed weapon for a non-impaling attack (like the Tip Slash described in GURPS Low-Tech and Martial Arts). Base cost is +$60. No effect on other stats. Applicability: Spears; polearms with spear points.

Bow-Harp: A bow that can be used as either a weapon or a harp on any given turn. Used by bards. Adds 1.5 lbs. to bow weight. Any bow (not crossbow): +5 CF. Climber’s: Blade, prong, and/or handle design lets you climb with the weapon ready. Gives +1 to Climbing skill (a pair still gives just +1). Any hatchet, jutte, pick, sai, sickle, tonfa, or one-handed axe: +4 CF.

Butt Spike: Melee weapons with long shafts can have butt spikes. These come in two varieties. Either disrupts the weapon’s balance for throwing: -2 to hit when hurling it. The first version is a metal shoe that facilitates planting the shaft in the ground. When delivering a butt strike, treat the weapon as a quarterstaff; the spike doesn’t do impaling damage, but does give +1 to crushing damage from a thrust. Base cost is +$10. No effect on other stats. Applicability: Spears; hafted weapons; polearms. The second version is a small spear point, allowing a butt strike for impaling damage, at -1 relative to the weapon’s usual thrusting damage. Base cost is +$20. No effect on other stats. Applicability: Spears; polearms.
For iron-shod staffs, see Flanges, Spikes, or End Caps (below).

Chain: A weapon with a thin cord can be made with a chain instead, removing the thin cord vulnerability; see Breakage When Attacked (p. 22). For a bolas made with weighted metal chains, stats are unchanged – metal is pricier and denser than cord and wood, but there’s much less of it. For other weapons, base cost is +$20 and weight is +0.5 lb. Applicability: Bola perdida; bolas; nunchaku; thonged club.

Cheap†: +2 to odds of breakage (see p. B376). All weapons: -0.6 CF.

Dragonbone‡: Instead of wood for shafts and handles, weapons may be made with hard, lightweight, alchemically treated dragonbone, which is as durable as orichalcum. Dragonbone weapons and projectiles don’t break, and other weapons have a +2 chance of breaking when parrying a heavy dragonbone one. Dragon bone isn’t flexible, so bows may not be made from it.  Wooden weapons:  +24 CF.

Dwarven: Changes a Parry of 0U to 0, letting a weapon that can’t normally parry and attack on the same turn do just that. Doesn’t prevent the weapon from becoming unready after attacking (‡ on ST). Any unbalanced melee weapon: +4 CF.

Elven: Lets a bow shoot at +2 to ST for range and damage purposes; e.g., a ST 11 elf could draw a ST 13 bow. Any bow (not crossbow): +16 CF.

Falchion: This modification redesigns a sword or a knife into a heavier variant used primarily for cutting and chopping. The option is named for the shortsword version. Starting with a non-falchion blade of a given type, apply +1 to swing damage but -1 to thrust damage. Falchions of broadsword size or higher are unbalanced; add a U to their Parry stat. CF is +0.25. Weight is +50%. Find the weapon’s new ST stat from its final weight (see Determining Weapon ST Table below). Applicability: Knives; swords.

Fine†: ‑1 to odds of breakage (Parrying Heavy Weapons, Exploits, p. 49) and +1 to cutting and impaling damage for a melee or thrown weapon, or a projectile – or +20% to 1/2D and Max for a blowpipe, bow, or crossbow. Projectiles, and crushing- or impaling-only melee or thrown weapons: +2 CF. Fencing weapons (p. 81), swords (pp. 81-82), blowpipes, bows, and crossbows: +3 CF. Other cutting melee or thrown weapons: +9 CF.

Flanges, Spikes, or End Caps: Blunt, hafted weapons such as clubs, mauls, round maces, and sticks may be given flanges or multiple small spikes – in game terms, the two features are equivalent. These give +1 to crushing damage when swinging or thrusting. Base cost is +40%. No effect on other stats. Applicability: Hafted crushing weapons.
Most TL2+ maces, flails, and polearms with crushing attacks are already flanged or spiked. Unflanged versions of typically flanged weapons do -1 crushing damage. CF is -0.3. Applicability: Flails; maces other than round ones; morningstars; polearms. Wooden staffs typically have end caps to increase striking damage. Weapon stats on tables already account for these. Staffs may lack these, for -1 to swinging and thrusting damage, -$5 base cost, and -1 lb. weight. Applicability: Staffs.

Handles
Long: Any hafted or pole weapon can have a longer handle. This is most common on spears for massed battlefield use – simply use the stats for a long spear or a pike, as length dictates.
For longer polearms, an additional yard of length gives +1 to swing damage and +1 to Reach, but adds a turn of ready time after an attack. CF is +0.33. Weight is +33%. Base ST on the weapon’s new weight (see Determining Weapon ST, pp. 15-16). Applicability: Polearms.
For longer axes and maces, an additional yard of length gives +1 to swing damage and +1 to Reach. A weapon that isn’t already unbalanced gets a U on its Parry stat. CF is +0.5. Weight is +50%. Find ST from the new weight. Applicability: Axes; maces; picks. A long handle can be retrofitted to existing weapon.
Short: The three-yard polearms in the GURPS Basic Set are for formation fighting; such lengths are necessary to strike at a foe held at bay by pikes. Shorter versions are better-suited to self-defense. Short polearms get -1 to swing damage and -1 to Reach (minimum Reach 1). Subtract a flat $20 from base cost and 2 lbs. from base weight. Find ST from the weapon’s new weight (see Determining Weapon ST, pp. 15-16). They no longer become unready after a swing, and can parry on the same turn as a thrust (no U on Parry in that case). They still require two hands, and call for a Ready to adjust Reach. Applicability: Polearms with Reach 3+.
A short handle can be retrofitted to existing weapon. Dueling polearms are already shortened in this fashion and can’t be shortened further!

Hilts
Adding: A hilt on a weapon that normally lacks one gives +1 to Parry but -1 to Holdout. This also changes the weapon’s balance; the user fights at -2 to skill until he has familiarized himself with the thing (see Familiarity, p. B169). CF is +0.25. Weight is +0.25 lb. Applicability: Hafted weapons (axes, flails, maces, etc.); polearms; sticks. Staffs can have hilts, but the reduced ability to move the hands around for better leverage and position offsets the +1 to Parry, resulting in an unchanged Parry statistic.
Removing: Removing the hilt from a weapon that normally has one gives -1 to Parry but +1 to Holdout (hiltless weapons are easier to conceal!). CF is -0.25.Weight is -0.25 lb., except for weapons that weigh less than 1 lb., which don’t change in weight because their hilts are too small to affect overall weight significantly. Applicability: Knives (but not dedicated throwing knives, which already lack a hilt); swords.
Basket:  A basket hilt is a metal guard on a weapon’s hilt that wraps around and protects the wielder’s hand. The hand gets DR 4, cumulative with glove DR – although the hilt is too cramped for metal gauntlets. The guard also gives +1 to punching damage. The change in the weapon’s balance and feel gives the user -2 to skill until he familiarizes himself it (see Familiarity, p. B169). CF for an enclosed hilt (hand DR always applies) is +0.25; weight is +0.25 lb. CF for an open-frame or partial basket hilt (DR applies on 1-3 on 1d) is still +0.25; however, weight is unchanged. Stats for weapons that include a basket hilt already reflect this. Applicability: Anything with a hilt.

Hammer Head: A swung, hafted cutting or impaling weapon can have a hammer head behind its striking head. Damage is that of its usual swinging attack, but crushing. Base cost is +$25. Weight is +0.5 lb. Applicability: Swung, hafted cutting or impaling weapons.

Hook: A swung weapon – even a sword! – can have a small hook to enable the Hook technique (see GURPS Martial Arts). Hooking inflicts thrust-2 cutting for a one-handed weapon, thrust-1 for a two-handed one. The hook can be blunt in order to snag victims without causing damage, but this is no cheaper. Base cost is +$25. No effect on other stats. Applicability: Swung weapons.

Kusari, Two-Yard: A weapon with Reach 1+ can have a short kusari (weighted chain) attached. Use the stats on p. B272, but Reach is only 1, 2*. It goes on the head or butt of an impact or pole weapon, on the pommel of a club or sword (to put it inside another weapon, see Hidden Weapons in GURPS Martial Arts). The wielder may use his weapon normally or swing the chain using the Kusari skill. A butt- or pommel-mounted kusari makes the weapon two-handed, if it wasn’t already; one hand controls the chain at all times. A head-mounted kusari may be used one-handed, but the wielder can use only the kusari or the base weapon at any given time – choose each turn. Base cost is +$40. Weight is +2.5 lbs. Applicability: Weapons with Reach 1+.

Kusari, Four-Yard: As above, but the kusari is full-sized (Reach 1-4*) and always used two-handed. Base cost is +$80. Weight is +5 lbs.

Meteoric‡: Meteoric iron is immune to magic – Bladeturning, Missile Shield, Steelwraith, and so on won’t stop it, and Making and Breaking spells can’t destroy it. It can’t be magical, compose a power item, or benefit from weapon-enhancing spells or magical repairs. Any metal weapon: +19 CF.

Orichalcum‡: Orichalcum weapons won’t break. Non-orichalcum weapons have +2 to odds of breakage when parrying heavy orichalcum ones. Any metal weapon: +29 CF.

Ornate: Jewels, gold, etc. Improves reactions from buyers (and gullible hirelings!). All weapons except projectiles and sticks: +1 to reactions for +1 CF, +2 for +4 CF, or +3 for +9 CF.

Poorly Balanced*: -1 to skill with any melee weapon, thrown weapon, or projectile, or -1 Acc for a missile weapon: -0.6 CF.

Poison Metal‡: A dangerous, eldritch alloy, poison metal has the same effect as poisonwood on its targets, but it is also dangerous to its owner. For every week an adventurer has a poison metal in his possession (even if he doesn’t actually use it), make a roll against HT-2. On a failed roll, he loses a point of HT. HT lost to possession of poison metal is recovered at one point per week after he has gotten rid of all of his poison-metal items. Any metal +49.

Poisonwood‡: Spears, arrows, and wooden stakes may be made from this toxic wood. It acts as a follow-up agent with a five-minute delay and a HT+2 roll to resist. It does one point of toxic damage and one point of fatigue damage for six hourly cycles. Impaling wooden +9.

Pick: A swung, hafted crushing or cutting weapon can have a hardened spike at right angles to its haft. Damage is that of its usual swinging attack, but at -1 and impaling. Like any pick, it can get stuck (see p. B405). The weapon also gains the benefits of a hook. Base cost is +$50. Weight is +0.5 lb. Applicability: Swung, hafted crushing or cutting weapons.

Prongs: A non-Jitte/Sai weapon can have prongs added around the head (if a spear or hafted) or just above the handle (if a blade). It may have one large prong or two smaller ones; the effects are identical. Prongs give the wielder +2 in Quick Contests to disarm. There’s no effect on the penalty to hit with a disarm attempt. On a spear, such prongs also prevent enemies from running themselves through to close with you (see Holding a Foe at Bay in GURPS Martial Arts). Base cost is +$50. Weight is +0.5 lb. Applicability: Weapons not used with Jitte/Sai skill.

Sickle: A swung, hafted weapon can have a small sickle head. Damage is equivalent to that of its usual swinging attack, but at -1 and cutting or -2 and impaling. The weapon also gains the benefits of a hook. Base cost is +$30. Weight is +0.5 lb. Applicability: Swung, hafted weapons.

Spearhead: A hafted weapon can add a small spearhead or spike that does thrust+1 impaling one-handed, thrust+2 two-handed. Base cost is +$20. Weight is +0.5 lb. Applicability: Hafted weapons. A full-sized spearhead does thrust+2 impaling one-handed, thrust+3 two-handed. Base cost is +$30. Weight is +1 lb. Applicability: Hafted weapons.
Some weapons – especially ceremonial polearms – have very long spikes. These add +1 to both minimum and maximum Reach for the thrust impaling attack only. Base cost is +$50. Weight is +0.5 lb. Applicability: Weapons that already have a thrust impaling attack – if necessary, because of an added spearhead.
Any additional spearhead – long or short – can be multitined. A forked or trident head is most common. Multiple tines make the weapon tip-heavy (-2 to hit) and easy to intercept (+1 to Block or Parry vs. thrusting attacks with the tined head), and distribute the force of impact (armor divisor (0.5)), but are tricky to evade (-1 to enemy’s Dodge) and cause a nastier wound (+1 damage). For a full-sized spearhead or a long spike, tines also add a U to the weapon’s Parry statistic. While tines mean more points, each spike is thinner; cost and weight are unchanged.

Silver†‡: Metal melee weapons, thrown weapons, or projectiles can be made of solid silver pure enough to exploit monster vulnerabilities, but have +2 to odds of breakage: +19 CF. Silver coating for such weapons doesn’t worsen breakage, but affects monsters less (x2 injury becomes x1.5, x3 becomes x2, and x4 becomes x3): +2 CF.

Sylvan: The greatest stick craftsmanship known to elf-kind, has -1 to odds of breakage and can be made fine (+2 CF) for another -1 to odds of breakage. Its density concentrates the force of blows, giving +1 to damage as well! Makes it "Elven". Wooden sticks (batons, light clubs, quarterstaffs, etc.) only: +15 CF.

Tempered Glass:  An extremely durable glass-like material made by reclusive elven glaziers. It is exceptionally sharp; cutting or impaling weapons made from tempered glass get +1 damage per die. However, it is as durable as any metal weapon as well as being resistant to acid and electrical attacks. Makes it "Elven". Any cutting +29.

Throwable
Melee weapons may be innately dual-purpose, and also balanced for throwing (e.g., javelin or mace); single-purpose (e.g., axe), but with a dual-purpose variant (in this case, the throwing axe); or exclusively single-purpose, with no throwable variant (e.g., swords and polearms).
A normally dual-purpose weapon can be balanced only for throwing. Subtract a flat $10 from base cost. It may lack a real handle and possibly any useful grip, like a cruciform throwing axe or a dedicated throwing knife. In melee, this gives -2 to skill. Applicability: Axes; knives.
A single-purpose melee weapon that’s sometimes balanced for throwing can be had in its dual-purpose variant for an extra $10 to base cost; e.g., an axe costs $50, while a throwing axe is $60.Most such weapons already appear on weapon tables. Use this modifier for melee weapons that you know can be thrown but can’t find listed as such. Applicability: Axes; knives; sticks.
In a fantasy or cinematic campaign, the GM may allow dual-purpose variants of melee weapons that are never balanced for throwing in reality! CF is +1 for swords, +9 for anything else. Applicability: Any weapon.
In the latter two cases, long weapons (other than spears) are difficult to balance for throwing. Anything with Reach 2+ suffers a penalty equal to (1 - maximum Reach) to ranged attacks, despite being modified for throwing; e.g., a greatsword (Reach 2) made throwable gives 1 - 2 = -1. The long handle modification gives an extra -1. For range, see Throwing the Unthrowable (p. 17). Making the weapon throwable reduces the -4 to hit given there to the above penalties, but doesn’t improve range.

Training Weapons
Training weapons are blunted, less-rigid, padded, and/or made of softer materials. All modifications below are relative to a good quality weapon.
Blunt: A cutting or cut-and-thrust weapon that isn’t sharpened, but could be. Damage type becomes crushing. No other stats change.
Flexible: A thrusting-only weapon made whippy, with a button tip. Treat as a blunt that gets -2 to crushing damage. No other stats change.
Heavy Blunt: An overweight weapon – blunt and unable to take an edge, if bladed – designed to develop the muscles used to control it. Damage becomes crushing, at +1 for swings but -1 for thrusts. Base cost is 20% usual.Weight is +100%. Calculate its ST statistic from its new weight (see Determining Weapon ST, pp. 15- 16). No other stats change.
Padded: A wooden weapon wrapped with cloth or other padding. Damage becomes crushing, at -2 for thrusts and -4 for swings. Base cost is 5% usual. No other stats change.
Ultra-Light: A light, flexible nonmetallic weapon for competition – usually aimed at an armored target to allow full-powered hits without injury. Damage becomes crushing, with an armor divisor of (0.5). Base cost is 5% usual. Weight is -40%. Calculate its ST statistic from its new weight (see Determining Weapon ST, pp. 15-16). No other stats change.
Wooden: A hard wooden version of a metal weapon. Damage becomes crushing but isn’t reduced – such weapons are quite capable of beating someone to death or shattering bones. Sharp-tipped wooden weapons are possible; see Weapon Composition in GURPS Low-Tech. Base cost is 5-10% usual. No other stats change.

Very Fine†: ‑2 to odds of breakage; also +2 to damage for any cutting or impaling weapon. Crushing-only melee and thrown weapons: +14 CF. Fencing weapons, knives, and swords: +19 CF. Other melee or thrown weapons, and projectiles: +49 CF.

* Balanced and poorly balanced are mutually exclusive.
† Cheap, fine, very fine, and solid silver are mutually exclusive.
‡ Meteoric, dragonbone, orichalcum, poison metal, poison wood, and solid silver are mutually exclusive – although all but solid silver can be silver-coated.

DETERMINING WEAPON ST
Many weapon customization options affect weight. This may alter the weapon’s ST stat. Find its new ST using these rules (which can estimate ST for any hand weapon):
1. Apply weight modifiers to base weight. For example, a 6-lb. weapon with options that add +50% and +0.5 lb. weighs 6 + 3 + 0.5 = 9.5 lbs.
2. For a one-handed weapon, use full weight to find ST. For a two-handed weapon, use 2/3 of its weight. Treat lances as one-handed here.
3. Read ST from the lightest applicable weight bracket on this table:

Effective WeightSTEffective WeightST
Less than 1 lb.5Less than 10 lbs.13
Less than 2 lbs.6Less than 12 lbs.14
Less than 3 lbs.8Less than 14 lbs. 15 
Less than 4 lbs.10Less than 16 lbs.16
Less than 6 lbs.11+2 lbs.+1
Less than 8 lbs.12  



SHIELD TABLES
ShieldDBCostWeightNotes
CLOAK (DX-5, Net-4, or Shield (any)-4)
Light Cloak1$202[1]
Heavy Cloak2$505[1]
     
SHIELD (DX-4 or other Shield at -2)
Small Shield1$408[2, 3] 
Medium Shield2$6015[2, 3] 
Large Shield3$9025[2, 4] 

Notes
[1] Can be used offensively to Feint or grapple at reach C, 1 (but not for a shield bash or rush). A cloak occupies a hand, and a failed block may endanger your arm.
[2] Can be used offensively for a Feint, shield bash (see the Melee Weapons Table, pp. 98-103), or shield rush (Slams, Tramples, and Overruns, Exploits, p. 40). A spike that gives +1 to damage adds $20 to cost and 5 lbs. to weight before shield modifiers.
[3] Also available as a buckler. You can ready a buckler with one Ready maneuver and drop it as a free action, like a weapon – but it occupies a hand, can be dropped, and doesn’t allow a shield rush. Use Shield (Buckler) skill instead of Shield skill. No effect on statistics.
[4] Large shields get in the way: ‑2 to all attacks with the other hand (but not with the shield) unless you have Shield- Wall Training (p. 29). In close combat, apply ‑3 for DB instead, not as well; Shield-Wall Training doesn’t cancel this.

Shield Modifiers
As with weapons, it’s possible to apply modifiers to shields, including bucklers but not cloaks (with one exception). These have cost factors (CF) that affect price according to the rules for weapons: multiply list cost by (1 + total CF).

Alternate Grips: A shield normally has only one type of grip. You can add a second style, enabling you to wield the same shield with Shield or Shield (Buckler). You can even switch between these two grips in combat; this takes a number of Ready maneuvers equal to DB, and the rules to ready that style of grip apply. Base cost is +$20. Weight is +2 lbs.

Balanced: +1 to Shield skill. +4 CF.

Blades: Some small bucklers (e.g., the Indian madu) have one or two knife blades attached to the grip. Attacks with these are somewhat more effective than blows struck with a knife held in the shield hand – a buckler with fixed blades gives only -1 to Knife and Shield (Buckler), not the -2 under Shield-Hand Weapons (Low-Tech Companion 2 p. 19). However, critical failure on a block means the wielder jabs himself with his blade; it inflicts its usual impaling damage on a randomhit location. Cost and weight are simply those of the chosen knives.

Blade-Edged: The edge of the shield is sharpened, if metal, or has a sharpened band attached to it. The user can swing it (roll against Shield at -1) for sw-2 cut. If a throwing shield is also blade-edged, it does cut rather than cr damage. Metallic +14 CF, Nonmetallic: +29 CF.

Boss: The standard shield boss is domed in shape. All of the shields in GURPS Low-Tech include such a boss, but this can be omitted. A shield without a boss gets -1 to shield-bash damage. Base cost is -$25.Weight is -2 lbs. If cost would be $0 or less, or weight would be 0 lbs. or less, then the shield in question is nothing but boss and can’t use this modifier. One can replace a domed boss with a conical one. The point gives +1 to crushing damage in a shield bash (p. B273). Base cost is +$20. Weight is +5 lbs. Adjust HP to match the new weight. Finally, a shield can have a long spike. This, too, gives +1 to shield-bash damage; it also makes the attack impaling. It costs and weighs as much as a conical boss (above), but can get stuck like a pick (p. B405). It’s also damage-prone. Roll 1d after every block attempt; on a 1, the spike breaks off!

Disarming Spikes: This option adds two or more short spikes to the shield’s rim to help catch weapons. On the turn after a successful block, the wielder may attempt to disarm his attacker at +1. Critical failure on a block means that a spike stabs the wielder: 1d-3 impaling damage to a random hit location. Base cost is +$30. Weight is +1 lb. (this doesn’t increase HP).

Dwarven*†: Hefty iron instead of wood. Adds +1 damage with a shield bash or rush (cumulative with +1 for a spike) and makes the shield fireproof. Doubles weight! +4 CF.

Fine†: Shield has the same DB at only 3/4 of its usual weight. +9 CF.

Lance Cutout: This is a scallop cut into a top corner of a shield. It grants +1 to Lance skill, not cumulative with the bonus for a lancerest (see GURPS Low-Tech). It’s normally used only in tournaments. Base cost is +$30. Other stats are unchanged.

Lantern Hook: A hook attached to the center of a shield for hanging a lantern! Base cost is +$20. Weight is +0.5 lb. (this doesn’t increase HP).

Meteoric*†: Resists magic as for the weapon modifier (p. 106), adds +1 damage with a shield bash or rush (cumulative with +1 for a spike), and is fireproof. Doubles weight! +99 CF.

Mirrored: Polished or silvered to reflect gaze attacks. A successful Block against such an attack allows an immediate Shield roll to redirect the curse at anyone within its usual range. If the gaze allows a resistance roll, the target of a reflected gaze resists at +3. Dwarven, meteoric, or orichalcum shields: +2 CF. Other shields: +6 CF.

Orichalcum*†: Shield has the same DB at only 2/3 of its usual weight, gives non-orichalcum weapons +2 to odds of breakage when parrying a shield bash or rush, and is fireproof. +149 CF.

Ornate: Also allowed on cloaks. Impresses plebes as for the weapon modifier (p. 106): +1 to reactions for +1 CF, +2 for +4 CF, or +3 for +9 CF.

Throwing: Light or Small. The round shape of the shield is carefully balanced for throwing. See Thrown Shields (below) for stats. +3 CF.

* Dwarven, meteoric, and orichalcum are mutually exclusive.
† Weight effects multiply together. A fine dwarven or fine meteoric shield has 1.5 times usual weight; a fine orichalcum one is half usual weight.

This message was last edited by the player at 21:32, Fri 26 June.

Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1865 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 4/10
Fri 31 Jan 2020
at 06:40
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
ARMOR TABLE
ArmorDRHead (Full Face)BodyArmsHandsLegsFeetSuitNotes
Light Cloth, Leather, Furs1$13 (+$5)$53$25$5$37$17$150 
-----weight 1.5 (+0.6)6.330.64.52.118 
Heavy Cloth, Leather, Furs2$38 (+$15)$158$75$15$112$52$450 
weight 3 (+1.2)12.661.294.236 
Light Mail3/1$125 (+$50)$525$250$50$375$175$1,500[1, 2]
weight 3 (+1.2)12.661.294.236 
Light Scale3/2$80 (+$32)$336$160$32$240$112$960[1, 2]
weight 4 (+1.6)16.881.6125.648 
Light Segmented Plate3$150 (+$60)$630$300$60$450$210$1,800[2, 3]
weight 4 (+1.6)16.881.6125.648 
Mail4/2$225 (+$90)$945$450$90$675$315$2,700[1, 2]
weight 3.8 (+1.5)15.87.51.511.25.245 
Scale4/3$138 (+$55)$578$275$55$412$192$1,650[1, 2]
weight 7 (+2.8)29.4142.8219.884 
Segmented Plate4$225 (+$90)$945$450$90$675$315$2,700[2, 3]
weight 6 (+2.4)25.2122.4188.472 
Heavy Mail5/3$300 (+$120)$1,260$600$120$900$420$3,600[1, 2]
weight 4.5 (+1.8)18.991.813.56.354 
Heavy Scale5$275 (+$110)$1,155$550$110$825$385$3,300[2]
weight 10 (+4)422043014120 
Heavy Segmented Plate5$300 (+$120)$1,260$600$120$900$420$3,600[2, 3]
weight 8 (+3.2)33.6163.22411.296 
Brigandine5$450 (+$180)$1,890$900$180$1,350$630$5,400[2, 3]
weight 5 (+2)2110215760 
Plate6$625 (+$250)$2,625$1,250$250$1,875$875$7,500[2, 3]
weight 5 (+2)2110215760 
Heavy Plate7$750 (+$300)$3,150$1,500$300$2,250$1,050$9,000[2, 3]
weight 6 (+2.4)25.2122.4188.472 
Extra-Heavy Plate8$875 (+$350)$3,675$1,750$350$2,625$1,225$10,500[2, 3]
weight 7 (+2.8)29.4142.8219.884 
Epic Plate9$1,000 (+$400)$4,200$2,000$400$3,000$1,400$12,000[2, 3]
weight 8 (+3.2)33.6163.22411.296 

Notes
[1] Use lower DR against crushing attacks.
[2] Considered metal for the purposes of armor modifiers, lightning damage, reaction penalties in town, etc.
[3] Considered plate armor when adding armor modifiers or buying breastplates.


Armor Modifiers  (some of these modifiers are from my home game, but they were pulled from Low-Tech and DF 8 Treasure tables so the numbers are Kosher).

Armor – like weapons and shields – can have modifiers. These result in cost factors (CF) that affect price as explained for weapons: multiply list cost by (1 + total CF). Most are specific to particular kinds of armor!

Cheap: This might be mass-produced munitions armor, issued to an army’s rank and file; alternatively, the armor could be the work of an inexperienced armorer, or incorporate low-grade materials. Cheap armor has -1 DR. -0.6 CF; weight is unchanged.

Dark One Living Armor: Leather and scale. The result of magically assisted “genetic engineering,” this armor is a living colony of remarkable lichens that works to treat the wearer's injuries. After any cutting, impaling, or piercing injury to a location protected by the armor, roll 3d.  On 15 or less, a sticky secretion covers the wound; when the battle ends, the wearer instantly enjoys the benefits of bandaging. If a limb protected by such armor takes crippling injury, the wearer has +1 on the HT roll to determine the crippling wound's duration. +49 CF.

Dragonhide*: Heavy leather armor (DR 2) can be dragonhide. This provides from +1 to +4 DR, depending on the dragon, and double that DR bonus against fire. (Dragonhide with up to +7 DR – and unusual dragonhide that doubles its bonus vs. acid, cold, or other damage – exists but isn’t for sale.) It also gives ‑3 reactions from dragons! Weight and cost depend on DR bonus: +1 DR (+2 vs. fire) is 1.25x weight and +29 CF; +2 DR (+4 vs. fire) is 1.5x weight and +35 CF; +3 DR (+6 vs. fire) is 1.75x weight and +41 CF; and +4 DR (+8 vs. fire) is 2x weight and +47 CF.

Dwarven: Dwarves can forge DR 6-9 plate armor (note [3]) to be harder! This gives +1 DR without raising weight. +4 CF.

Elven: Elven mail uses the higher DR listed for the base armor against all damage – don’t reduce its DR vs. crushing attacks. Any mail: +3 CF.

Feathers:  Feathers can be woven into cloth armor, adds +1 DR versus light ranged weapons (ammo weight 1 lbs or less).  Counts as Ornate +1 (no further Ornate can be added).  Costs $2,000.

Fine*: Expertly fitted, with no waste material. Offers full DR at 3/4 of the usual weight. Only fits wearers whose height and weight match the original owner’s! Any armor: +9 CF.

Giant-Spider Silk: Improves light cloth armor (DR 1) to DR 2 without raising weight – and allows it to be worn under other armor (+2 DR) without -1 to DX for layering. +99 CF.

Highly Articulated:  Highly articulated armor is constructed with an extremely sophisticated set of overlapping layers or plates protecting joints and other vulnerable areas. Provides two-thirds rather than half DR against attacks to chinks in armor.  +19 CF.

Jazerant:  Mail sandwiched between two layers of padding and/or leather.  Holdout penalty is DR/3.  Add both mail and leather together to find base armor price, CF is the amount of Holdout penalty reduced.  All modifiers apply to this new Base Price.

Meteoric†: Resists magic as for the weapon modifier (p. 106). Any metal armor (note [2]): +19 CF.

Orichalcum*†: Gives full DR at just 1/3 of the usual weight! Any plate armor (note [3]): +29 CF.

Ornate‡: Dress to impress, exactly as for the weapon modifier (p. 106). Any armor or clothing: +1 to reactions for +1 CF, +2 for +4 CF, or +3 for +9 CF.

Slornhide (Leather of Quality):  Light and heavy leather armor can be made of Slorn hide, this leather is tougher than regular leather, +1 DR, for no extra weight.  Slorn are known to attack wearers of Slorn hide on sight and track those that escape them forever.  There are rumors of Slornhide armors made from old Slorn that have the same acid/fire resistance of the Slorn, if so see Dragonhide for pricing and weight increase.  +4 CF (+3 CF for Trolls).

Spiked: Every turn, roll DX-4 to stab each enemy in close combat with you as a free action; success deals 1d-2 impaling damage. In addition, anyone who strikes such armor with an unarmed attack takes this damage to the attacking body part – and if the attack is a bite, grapple, or anything under Slams, Tramples, and Overruns (Exploits, p. 40), the attacker suffers maximum damage (4 points). Any plate armor (note [3]) that covers the body or more: +2 CF.

Thieves’‡: Blackened mail woven for maximum flexibility, minimum noise. Find the total weight of your gear with and without this armor, and use weight without to figure encumbrance penalties (p. 12) to Acrobatics, Climbing, Stealth, and other skills (but not to Move or Dodge). Any mail: +3 CF.

* Weight effects multiply together; e.g., dragonhide with +4 DR (2x weight) of fine quality (3/4 weight), weighs 1.5 times as much as usual.

† Meteoric and orichalcum are mutually exclusive.

‡ Thieves’ mail cannot be ornate.


DFRPG Magic Items (1)

Armor and Shields
SpellEffectsBase ItemCostPrefixSuffixNotes
Continual Lightlight equal to torchArmor/Shield$8,000Glowingof Light 
Defending Shield+1 to BlockShield$10,000Defendingof Defense 
Defending Shield+2 to BlockShield$20,000Interposingof Interposing 
Defending Shield+3 to BlockShield$40,000Interposingof Interposing 
Deflect+1 Defense BonusArmor/Shield$2,000Wardingof Warding[1, 2]
Deflect+2 Defense BonusArmor/Shield$10,000Deflectingof Deflection[1, 2]
Deflect+3 Defense BonusArmor/Shield$40,000Deflectingof Deflection[1, 2]
Deflect+4 Defense BonusArmor/Shield$160,000Deflectingof Deflection[1, 2]
Deflect+5 Defense BonusArmor/Shield$400,000Deflectingof Deflection[1, 2]
Fortify+1 Damage ResistanceArmor$1,000Unyieldingof Solidity[1]
Fortify+2 Damage ResistanceArmor$4,000Impenetrableof Invulnerability[1]
Fortify+3 Damage ResistanceArmor$16,000Impenetrableof Invulnerability[1]
Fortify+4 Damage ResistanceArmor$60,000Impenetrableof Invulnerability[1]
Fortify+5 Damage ResistanceArmor$160,000Impenetrableof Invulnerability[1]
Lighten-25% from weightArmor/Shield$2,000Lightof Lightness[1]
Lighten-50% from weightArmor/Shield$10,000Weightlessof Weightlessness[1]


Notes
[1] Cost is for a suit of armor. Piecewise armor can have Deflect or Fortify that adds Defense Bonus or Damage Resistance only vs. attacks on that location, or Lighten for just the weight of that piece. Use 10% of cost for head, 35% for body, 15% for arms, 5% for hands, 25% for legs, or 10% for feet. Further halve cost for a breastplate or just one limb or extremity.
[2] Defense Bonus adds to that of any mundane shield. If both shield and armor have Deflect, only the highest magical DB applies. See Defense Bonus (Exploits, p. 47).



Weapons and Ammo
SpellEffectsBase ItemCostPrefixSuffixNotes
Accuracy+1 to hitWeapon$5,000Accurateof Seeking 
Accuracy+1 to hitProjectile$25Trueof True Flight 
Accuracy+2 to hitWeapon$20,000Accurateof Seeking 
Accuracy+2 to hitProjectile$100Trueof True Flight 
Accuracy+3 to hitWeapon$100,000Accurateof Seeking 
Accuracy+3 to hitProjectile$10,000Trueof True Flight[1]
Continual Lightlight equal to torch Weapon$8,000Glowingof Light  
Corrosive Weapon+2 acidMelee Weapon$18,000Corrosiveof Corroding[2, 3]
Corrosive Weapon+2 acidMissile Weapon$22,000Corrosiveof Corroding[2, 3]
Corrosive Weapon+2 acidProjectile$75Corrosiveof Corroding[2, 3]
Dancing WeapondancesMelee Weapon see p. 7 Dancingof Dancing   
Defending Weapon+1 to ParryMelee Weapon$10,000Defendingof Defense 
Defending Weapon+2 to ParryMelee Weapon$20,000Interposingof Interposing 
Defending Weapon+3 to ParryMelee Weapon$40,000Interposingof Interposing 
Flaming Weapon+2 fireMelee Weapon$15,400Flamingof Flame[3]
Flaming Weapon+2 fireMissile Weapon$20,400Flamingof Flame[3]
Flaming Weapon+2 fireProjectile$75Fireof Burning[3]
Holy Weapon+2 holyMelee Weapon$15,000Consecratedof Cleansing[3]
Holy Weapon+2 holyMissile Weapon$20,000Consecratedof Cleansing[3]
Holy Weapon+2 holyProjectile$75Consecratedof Cleansing[3]
Icy Weapon+2 coldMelee Weapon$17,000Icyof Ice[3]
Icy Weapon+2 coldMissile Weapon$20,500Icyof Ice[3]
Icy Weapon+2 coldProjectile$75Coldof Freezing[3]
Lightning Weapon+2 electricalMelee Weapon$15,300Cracklingof Shocking[3]
Lightning Weapon+2 electricalMissile Weapon$20,400Lightningof Lightning[3]
Lightning Weapon+2 electricalProjectile$75Lightningof Lightning[3]
Loyal Weaponreturns to hand Weapon$15,000/lb.Returningof Returning[4] 
Penetrating Weaponarmor divisor (2)Melee Weapon$5,000Penetratingof Penetration[5]
Penetrating Weaponarmor divisor (2)Missile Weapon$10,000Penetratingof Penetration[5]
Penetrating Weaponarmor divisor (2)Projectile$25Burrowingof Piercing[5]
Penetrating Weaponarmor divisor (3)Melee Weapon$15,000Penetratingof Penetration[5]
Penetrating Weaponarmor divisor (3)Missile Weapon$30,000Penetratingof Penetration[5]
Penetrating Weaponarmor divisor (3)Projectile$75Burrowingof Piercing[5]
Penetrating Weaponarmor divisor (5)Melee Weapon$50,000Penetratingof Penetration[5]
Penetrating Weaponarmor divisor (5)Missile Weapon$100,000Penetratingof Penetration[5]
Penetrating Weaponarmor divisor (5)Projectile$5,000Burrowingof Piercing[5]
Penetrating Weaponarmor divisor (10)Melee Weapon$150,000Penetratingof Penetration[5]
Penetrating Weaponarmor divisor (10)Missile Weapon$300,000Penetratingof Penetration[5]
Penetrating Weaponarmor divisor (10)Projectile$15,000Burrowingof Piercing[5]
Penetrating Weaponignores DRMelee Weapon$500,000Penetratingof Penetration[6]
Penetrating Weaponignores DRMissile Weapon$1,000,000Penetratingof Penetration[6]
Penetrating Weaponignores DRProjectile$50,000Burrowingof Piercing[6]
Puissance+1 damageMelee Weapon$5,000Mightyof Smiting 
Puissance+1 damageMissile Weapon$10,000Strongarmof Striking 
Puissance+1 damageProjectile$25Swiftof Impact 
Puissance+2 damageMelee Weapon$20,000Mightyof Smiting 
Puissance+2 damageMissile Weapon$40,000Strongarmof Striking 
Puissance+2 damageProjectile$100Swiftof Impact 
Puissance+3 damageMelee Weapon$100,000Mightyof Smiting 
Puissance+3 damageMissile Weapon$200,000Strongarmof Striking 
Puissance+3 damageProjectile$10,000Swiftof Impact[1]
ShatterproofunbreakableWeapon$8,000Eternalof Durability 
Steelwraithsee p. 7Weapon/Projectile$5,000/lb.Steelwraithof Steelwraith 

Notes
[1] Available in a one-use version for $500; see Permanent or Expendable? (p. 7).
[2] Keep track of added corrosion damage even if it fails to penetrate armor. Every five points removes one point of DR from the target location.
[3] Follow-up. Adds injury of listed type if attack pierces DR. Doesn’t add basic damage.
[4] See Loyal Weapon (Exploits, p. 79).
[5] Divides target’s DR by 2, 3, 5, or 10. See Armor Divisors (Exploits, pp. 52-53).
[6] Ignores target’s DR



Common Item Enchantments
SpellBase ItemCostPageNotes
Create FoodContainer$8,000 per meal/day32 
FireproofAny$3,000/lb.30[1]
InvisibilityAny$10,000/50 lbs.47[1]
Magic ResistanceAny$4,000/level51[1, 2]
Magic StaffStick$309[3]
Resist AcidAny$1,000/lb.70[1, 4]
ScryguardAny$1,000/lb.52[1, 5]
SteelwraithAny Metallic$5,000/lb.28[1]

Notes
[1] Affects item, not user.
[2] Maximum 10 levels; penalty affects spells cast on or from item.
[3] Cost is per type of magic: clerical, druidic, or wizardly. Typical lengths are wand (baton, $50, 1 lb.), rod (jo, $40, 2 lbs.), and staff (quarterstaff, $40, 4 lbs.). When casting, extends caster’s reach by one (wand or rod) or two (staff) yards.
[4] Triple cost to resist alkahest!
[5] Item resists Information spells with Power 15. On a container, this also benefits anything inside while it’s closed.
Narrator
 GM, 7353 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Fri 31 Jan 2020
at 20:31
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Thank you!
Mario Crowfoot
 player, 1060 posts
 An orphan who grew up
 with bow in hand
Tue 14 Jul 2020
at 23:19
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Chye Isuel:
everything is prohibitively expensive :(


I think that's a conscious design decision -- the idea of DFRPG is that characters should never have "enough", they should always be scrounging and scrambling for more and more and more -- delving to their limits, almost getting killed (or some actually getting killed) trying to get the money to buy the stuff to survive the previous adventure, only to have to go further against even greater odds to get the stuff to survive this one.

I just found out an armor upgrade I could have afforded under Basic is about double price on these charts, one piece doesn't exist, and if it did, I'd be leaving my shins bare (never mind that the coverage is the same as what I'm wearing).

Well, okay, technically, I could afford the armor, but it would take a big chunk out of what I'm trying to save to upgrade something else.

Or, to put it another way, a hundred francs doesn't go as far as it used to.
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 2079 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP 9/9 FP 7/10 PF 0/8
Tue 14 Jul 2020
at 23:31
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Mario Crowfoot:
I just found out an armor upgrade I could have afforded under Basic is about double price on these charts, one piece doesn't exist...

What upgrade is that?

quote:
...and if it did, I'd be leaving my shins bare (never mind that the coverage is the same as what I'm wearing).

Only possible using the above chart if you skip Legs...  or do you mean the upgrade you wanted (which isn't on the above chart) didn't cover the shins?

Note, the above chart is Low-Tech compliant, so you might be able to talk to gwythaint and swing what you wanted.  Of course, you also might not want to leave your calves uncovered.  We saw what happened before when you took a carving knife to the calf.

quote:
Well, okay, technically, I could afford the armor, but it would take a big chunk out of what I'm trying to save to upgrade something else.

Or, to put it another way, a hundred francs doesn't go as far as it used to.

The struggle is real.
Mario Crowfoot
 player, 1061 posts
 An orphan who grew up
 with bow in hand
Wed 15 Jul 2020
at 09:18
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Okay, rules geek with all the books I've never spent my allowance on:

Mario currently has Leather Armor (DR 2, covers Torso and Groin), Heavy Leather Sleeves (DR 2, Arms) and Heavy Leather Leggings (DR 2, Legs).

Based on Basic Set (which is what my GCS equipment library supports), I had thought I could upgrade to Light Scale (DR 3, Torso only), Studded Leather Skirt, a la Roman Legionnaire (DR 3, Groin and Legs), and keep the sleeves as is, for only 5 lb increase in weight (lots of leeway before crossing from Light to Medium) and $210 minus trade-in rebate of (boss says) 40% of value for the Leather Armor and Leggings -- a very affordable upgrade.

But now I find that Light Scale for the Torso alone is $336, and Studded Leather Skirt apparently doesn't exist in DFRPG.  Plus, all the weights have increased, and the chart doesn't show coverage, so I can't tell if Groin is covered or not.

Old days, one point of Fortify on the existing leather wouldn't have cost much more than that and added no weight at all, but Q&D went the way of "we need to sell you yet another set of rule books!"

Desired end result: an affordable upgrade (say, under $200 net after trade-in) for at least Torso, Groin, and Legs to DR 3, without adding more than, say, 10 lbs at most over existing DR 2 Leather.
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 2080 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP 9/9 FP 7/10 PF 0/8
Wed 15 Jul 2020
at 12:32
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Mario Crowfoot:
Studded Leather Skirt, a la Roman Legionnaire (DR 3, Groin and Legs)

Ah, ye olde Roman Legion Skirt which is better than Hvy Leather Pants at the same weight and cost...  yeah they ditched the 'ethnic cool' stuff that Basic carried over from 3e unedited.

quote:
Desired end result: an affordable upgrade (say, under $200 net after trade-in) for at least Torso, Groin, and Legs to DR 3, without adding more than, say, 10 lbs at most over existing DR 2 Leather.

That's not going to happen.  It simply doesn't exist.  You could just trade-in your Hvy Leather Torso for a Lt Scale Torso, this costs $272.8 and increases weight 6.2 pounds*.  You could find a Troll armorer and start swapping out for Hvy Slorn Hide (Leather of Proof), but yeah, that's expensive, but in the long run it can get op to DR 4 (with Fort +1) for half the weight of Segmented Plate.

Something I forgot to put on the above list that gwythaint might allow:  Reinforcing (Low-Tech pg 105).  This is adding Byzanting, Rings, Splinting, or Jack Chains to cloth/leather.  It's +1 DR (cutting only), + 0.25CF, +25% weight.  It's not a full +1 DR, but it's a bit more protection versus those Boombrats and their cleavers.


Of course if you want that Plate protection for a Hvy Leather look, you could start getting into Jazerant...  For the Ultimate in Ethnic Kewl Overpriced Protection we have Hvy Slorn Hide/Elven Hvy Mail Jazarent for stupid amounts† of money that gives a solid DR 8 at just 6 pounds more than Extra Heavy Plate, but it does just look like 'oddly coloured' Hvy Leather‡.


* $336 - $63.2.  16.8lbs - 12.6lbs.

†  $66,600, but that has a Holdout penalty of -0... if you don't mind the Holdout penalty of -3 it's only $16,650 which is only slightly worse than Extra Hvy Plate...
‡  There are a lot of other interesting side things you can do with Jazerant, like since it it is also metallic and mail, the mail can be Meteoric Elven Thieves Mail, the Slorn Hide can be "Old Slorn" and have extra DR versus acid or fire...  because it's a tectile outer Steel Wraith won't bypass it...  etc...  I've long deliberated going Jazerant with Jareth's coat at some point, but as you can see, that's an expense.
Narrator
 GM, 7977 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Wed 15 Jul 2020
at 16:30
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Reinforced,  usually as small studs or plates gives +1 DR vs cutting.
Much more tha that, and you have lamelar in the form of scale armor.

Btw is this light segmented plate?
https://pin.it/3fFVJrs
Oly
 player, 1241 posts
 Badly disfigured face
 Rank 2 Guild badge
Wed 15 Jul 2020
at 17:46
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Could be, looks almost like Brigandine ... metal plates on leather backing, perhaps some padding under that.
Ryojin
 player, 62 posts
 Martial artist
Wed 15 Jul 2020
at 18:14
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Looks like Cheap Light Lamellar(scale).

but then I further looked into it and find that whoever that person is calls if a coat of plates which would be segmented plate armor in GURPS. Brigandine would be more advanced form of it.
Narrator
 GM, 7985 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Wed 15 Jul 2020
at 20:28
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Ryojin (msg # 106):

That coat of plates is an articulated set of plates linked with chain, essentially better chainmail.  Brigandine looks like studded leather,
https://pin.it/1DMlVSl
but is full of metal plates, and was the technological runner up to plate, which was developed when steelworking improved.  Picture platemail made out of a board and batten style of riveted strips,
https://pin.it/33KhQqq

https://pin.it/6N2qQxt

The name also worked for this sort of thing

https://pin.it/6KvAQeE
Mario Crowfoot
 player, 1062 posts
 An orphan who grew up
 with bow in hand
Wed 15 Jul 2020
at 22:42
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
All this armor talk and cost makes my head hurt.

Probably best to just keep what I've got while I save for my current goal (Bottomless Quiver of Swift Arrows -- Puissant +1, which costs less than solid silver points, says the boss).  At the rate we're going lately, that might take as little as a couple weeks/three or four years.
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 2081 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP 9/9 FP 7/10 PF 0/8
Thu 16 Jul 2020
at 00:04
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Mario Crowfoot:
Probably best to just keep what I've got while I save for my current goal (Bottomless Quiver of Swift Arrows -- Puissant +1, which costs less than solid silver points, says the boss).

Boss is correct, Solid Silver arrowheads cost $40 each, Silvered (which should also work on critters) cost $6 each, Puissant +1 costs $27.

So a Solid Silver Cornucopia Quiver costs $40,010; Silvered Cornucopia Quiver costs $6,010; and a Puissant +1 Quiver costs $27,010.

The simple equation is ($ of Ammo x $1000)+$10.

The more complicated one is [($ of Ammo x 50 energy)$20]+$10.

Keep in mind you can also pick Bodkin and Cutter head Quivers too...

So yes, Puissant is cheaper than Solid Silver, but Silvered is a doable amount with a couple decent runs.  Or just carry a backup quiver with silver arrows (which I think you're already doing?).  Cost benefit analysis is "Are you going to fire 1,000 silvered arrows down range in Mario's lifetime?"  Or is the cost of the quiver covered by the convenience cost of having them 'always' on hand?

Of course, Puissance +1 on your bow only costs $10,000 and that affects all arrows fired from it...

This message was last edited by the player at 00:06, Thu 16 July.

Mario Crowfoot
 player, 1065 posts
 An orphan who grew up
 with bow in hand
Thu 16 Jul 2020
at 09:06
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
As you say, "convenience cost" -- mainly concern about loss of the silver tipped arrows I'm carrying (yes, second quiver, and fletched differently so I can distinguish them by touch), which due to cost I don't have a lot of.  What you're paying for with a Cornucopia quiver isn't a thousand arrows, it's never being out of arrows.  Which, with a quiver holding only 20, can happen if you're away from town for a while or in a single day if things get hairy.
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 2084 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP 9/9 FP 7/10 PF 0/8
Thu 16 Jul 2020
at 11:19
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Mario Crowfoot:
Which, with a quiver holding only 20, can happen if you're away from town for a while or in a single day if things get hairy.

Certainly.  Also if you have to shoot more than 20 times in one mission, frex if Mario were on the Abbey mission, he'd have begun sweating come the end of it what with all the wights we faced (luckily we had sunlight on our side for the big "Wight Showdown" near the end)...

Don't get me wrong, I understand*.  Just throwing the questions out there for consideration.


* Frex Stenet doesn't have a lick of silvered anything... and he's a demon slayer.  Hopefully after this next adventure I can get that remedied.
Hograth Podkarmen
 player, 488 posts
 Holy Dwarven Warrior
 Of Hades, Get it Right!
Thu 16 Jul 2020
at 11:27
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Jareth Mooncalled (msg # 111):

Hograth spent points on wealth, and signature gear, to remedy that!
Mario Crowfoot
 player, 1066 posts
 An orphan who grew up
 with bow in hand
Thu 16 Jul 2020
at 23:01
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
Most likely I'll get a Cornucopia of silvered arrows first, and then start saving up for one with Puissant +1.  Extra damage on everything, rather than just "able to damage" on stuff that's immune to non-silver, non-magic or "a little extra" from the solid points on things with vulnerability to silver.

Couple more paydays like this last one will do the silvered, if I can stay out of my stash between.  But meanwhile, I should probably buy more silvered arrows instead of these expensive solid silver points.  I could afford a half quiver or more of those and not have to sweat if a shop collapses around us before I can recover one...
Narrator
 GM, 7988 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Fri 17 Jul 2020
at 02:46
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Mario Crowfoot (msg # 113):

Silvered arrows are CF+4, bringing your $2 arrow up to $10
Chye Isuel
 player, 1765 posts
 Osu! Ora Chye Iseul!
 Dragon descended, Youxia
Fri 17 Jul 2020
at 04:58
Re: DFRPG adjustments?
then, all them bully-rooks, in their buckskin boots, better run, better run!