In reply to Dilandua (msg # 116):

For whatever we get, we should get the following:

Bridle            $10   2 lbs
Halter             $5   1.5 lbs     The best way to tie the animal up
Blanket           $25   2.5 lbs     To avoid wear
Horseshoes        $50   4 lbs       To avoid becoming lame on a long trip.

Small mules worth $1000,

Lift Capacity  <65   <130   <195   <390   <650
Move            8      6      4      3      1
Dodge           8      7      6      5      4

Saddle Horses worth $1200,

Lift Capacity  <88   <176   <264   <440   <880
Move            12     9      7      4      2
Dodge           8      7      6      5      4

Looking at carrying capacity with our slowest, and thinking of loot on the way home, the saddle horse is a much better deal...Reanna has some spare cash, she is willing to pay the extra $200 for a larger critter in exchange for an extra share of the loot brought home as a result!

She also has her own tent, so she is happy to go with that. And her own rope, and canteen...but she will want to put the pack weighing 36 lbs plus rations on the horse...

There is already a bridle in my calculation, but I agree to add the following


You don't need to go in for +$200 for a horse, there is cushion for that, new calculation is:

$1580

With $20 left over.  Which would most simply go for more rope (or spikes or something - looking towards 'ambush' supplies).

How much rope do you (Reanna, Dne, and Aegis) have before we buy more (as a group)?


Won't be necessary.  And Dilandua wouldn't agree to it anyway (would agree to a loan from you of $150 with 10% interest though, Dilandua is equipped for the city, not camping out on the road...).


That is a given.  I suspect everyone will be stowing some portion of their gear on the pony.  At least until the trip home when it's loaded down with all the loot...

Aegis has 10' of rope.  He will also spring for a tent and blanket.

Tent, 1-Man (TL0). Includes ropes; no poles needed. $50, 5 lbs.
Blanket (TL1). A warm sleeping blanket. $20, 4 lbs

In reply to Aegis (msg # 119):

I have the following gear...

Iron Spike x4       2 lbs
Rope 3/8”, 40 yds   6 lbs
File                1 lbs
Climbing Spikes     4 lbs
Grapnel             2 lbs
Candle, Beeswax     1 lbs
Alchemist's Matches 0.25 lbs
Canteen, water  3+2=5 lbs

You want the Bridle and Bit instead of just the bridle? Fine by me I spose...

Bit and Bridle is necessary to avoid -3 to Handle Animal rolls as per DFRPG 16 Wilderness pg 19.

Not that any of us have Animal Handling... but every penalty counts...

In reply to Dilandua (msg # 121):

The cleric that had animal handling disliked our morality. Bit and bridle, fine, but I thought that was just for riding.

So I just need to get my own food for the trip, then. 10 days was it?

I have no rope, and animals are afraid of me.

7 there, 7 back.  Though that's an estimate to "Saint Remy" a small town the barmaid thinks they might pass through (which is roughly the halfway point).

So if we can get there in less than 7 days, great, we might have time to set up an ambush on the road into town from them.  If we tarry due to failed Hiking rolls, etc, then we might have to ambush them on this side of Saint Remy.  Which might not be a bad idea to plan for...

Okay so Aegis and Dne, sound off:  Are you two fine with the purchase of the mule and equipment and being self reliant for tents and food (note if Aegis grumbles about not being able to self provision, or some other noise, Reanna or Dilandua will probably be happy to set up provisions and camping equipment for him at a "reasonable fee")?

And everyone (weigh in on A or B):  We can either (A) try to press and make it to St Remy before them and ambush them right before, right after, or in town or (B) set up an ambush this side of St Remy (a few days out from Northport) with Dilandua scouting ahead to give us a few hours notice of their approach.


For my vote, I'm beginning to to think setting up 4 days out from Northport might be best... though it's not a strong inclination and I'll happily go with whatever the group thinks is best.

OOC  I think Aegis the character would expect all the organization to be handled for him.  He's just the mercenary, not the quartermaster.

As the player, I decided to gloss over that and contribute.  Aegis has 12 rations and a tent/blanket.  If we do the 7 days I might stock up on a few more.  He should be pretty self-reliant for the trip.

Aegis doesn't have a clue when it comes to the animals.  He's fine with you organizing it, because he plans on bringing back plenty of loot.  Just don't expect him to help much with the animals, because it's not his job.  He's the muscle, not the brains, or the ringmaster.

When it comes to business, Aegis will serious up.  He doesn't have much of a preference on where we set up the ambush.  If anything, he might have a mild preference for St. Remy based on:
(a) knowing a good whore or two there, and
(b) the mages might be pushing to make town, leading to them being exhausted and inattentive.

Aegis was built to be plenty anti-social.  Sorry to be a bit callous, but that's how the character sheet was written.  He will be enjoy his drink, and the ladies, and then show up all business when it's time to work.

In reply to Aegis (msg # 125):

Change the mule to a Saddle horse, even if I have to pay the extra for it myself, in which case I will get exclusive use of the extra payload, but at the last iteration I thought you wanted the horse? Otherwise, all good to go.

In addition, Reanna will get 2 saddlebags (6 +14 lbs), putting 28 of her rations into them. She will put her pack, weighing 42.25 lbs, onto the Horse as well. Total of her goods on horse: 62.25 lbs.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:38, Fri 20 Mar 2020.

He might get some waking up if he parties with Dilandua for long enough... act like the hired help, get paid like the hired help...  ;)


None of us do (unless Reanna has some talents she hasn't owned up to)...  Another reason Dilandua is leaning towards "Option B".


Strategically Dilandua agrees.  Realistically... I'm not sure Dne (or the mule horse) can press (be pressed) hard enough to get us there before them (by at least two days*).

Realistically, we're likely to barely hit town at the same time they will, which is absolutely terrible for ambushing unless your plan is to burn down a portion of Saint Remy to cover our tracks.  I mean Dilandua isn't against that per se, it's just crass and unprofessional... Dilandua prides on being a lot more precise and surgical than that (not that there are a whole lot, or even any, 'kill notches' on those spears yet, but when they get put there, it'll look better if they are 'proper assassination' tags rather than sloppy 'murder hobo' Xs).

But if it's what the group wants, call it Option C.  (It's also fine if Option C is "sneak in, kill them in their beds in the tavern, sneak out", just Dilandua will laugh at the idea that we could pull that off without making all the ruckus.)


* I say two days so we can be roughly a day out of town to set up the ambush (so no one just "randomly stumbles across us" also in case someone escapes, the farther they have to go to find safety, the easier to catch them), and so we have a day to set up an ambush spot.  Putting in clothesline traps and shallow pits to hinder our victim's escape is the work of a day.


Honestly we can also discuss this periodically on the trip... though I suspect we'll have a "...and X days later you're in Saint Remy..." without much time to discuss it inbetween.



Yes, horse.  I typed 'mule' again didn't I?  Lack of sleep rears its ugly head.

To keep the saddle horse at Move 4 we have to keep the load at or below 176, so you might need to carry a bit more of your own gear...  Note the Horse is at 4.8 Move at Light Enc (176 Lbs).


BEWARE, RABBIT HOLE OF RULES DISCUSSION PAST THIS POINT:
[EDIT]
I get into some interesting ideas the longer I rambled on this...

So for anyone interested in the TL/DR: AND WE CAN GET THERE IN 24 HOURS skip to the bottom.
[/EDIT]

If gwythaint is going on ye olde standard of "takes one week at donkey cart speeds", that means at a Move of 3 it takes 7 days.  If that's a travel time of 8 hours per day, that puts Saint Remy roughly 168 miles away on a decent road.

At a Move of 4, we could get there in 5.25 days.  I expect the mages to be at this speed, if not better.


Normal means of 'going faster':

Each of these things is optional; Hiking to march faster, Navigation/Area Knowledge to cut corners, Going Without Sleep.

For the first two, on a successful skill roll they gain +10 Move, on a failure -10%, on a critical failure -20%.  Hiking is personal, Navigation affects the entire group speed.

Skipping Sleep:  there are two sets of rules, Basic and the simpler DFRPG.

Basic is complicated, but essentially if we press on an extra 2 hours per day, we gain some extra miles, but will be down 2FP that can only be recovered with a full night's rest and an additional 1 hour of rest.

DFRPG rules just charge a flat -3 FP for each full day's rest missed.  Pushing on for the full two days get us there at the end of the third day, but leaves us needing to rest for a full 16 hours to recover.

I recommend not skipping rest (by itself).



Costly Methods of going faster:

If we each pick up scrolls of Quick March (or rather each of you slow pokes and one for the horse at double cost) for $80 per scroll ($160 for the horse), we could double our travel speed for $400/day (Move 8).  Each day we can afford this, we beat them by that one day.  Alternately, with 3 scrolls (one for Dne and a double cost one for the horse) we can be at Move 6, at a cost of $240/day.

If we could afford to hire a Guide (with Survival skill and a Move 4, $200 for the week*) we could increase our travel speed by half (marching for 12 hours instead of 8 per day, you just have to have a point in Survival, not roll it).  This means we get there in 3.5 days.  If the Mages are sleeping in and only moving at a 4, we beat them by 2 days.

If we can afford a Guide ($200) and to push an extra 2 hours per day (or one day overnight), we can get there in 3 days (2.5 days).  That gives us a half a day/full day to laze about recovering from the forced march (-6FP from lost sleep) and means we can tell the guide to peace out for a day or two (we'll need them for the walk home, I mean we paid him for a full week right?), head out past Saint Remy half to one day's travel and prep for the ambush.

For $680 we can get there in one day... (4 scrolls + 1 horse scroll, Guide, march all night).



I recommend the Guide+Push Extra Hours option, unless someone has the cash lying about for the $680 option (Dilandua could actually go in halfsies on this if someone else could also).  Also note, this means we'd need 5 days less food...


If someone knows a Druid or Wizard who can cast Quick March we can drastically cut costs here ($40 per Quick March, $80 for the horse)...  it means Guide+Quick March+Push Overnight costs $240 and we get there in about 24 hours...



Granted we could also hire 2 Laborers and a Guide for a 'day' at $120 each, get them Quick Marched $40, for a total of $480.  We'd need to supply them with food (6 meals each) for $36, three waterskins $30, two frame packs $200, one four person tent $150, and three bedrolls $60.  This costs $956 ($1,116 total for the group), gets us there in 1 day, without needing a horse, gives a lot of flexibility in how much we carry on the return (we could hire a laborer or two extra on the return trip).  Paying them for the return trip costs $108 per day (wages and rations), for 4 days, is $432.

Total cost of final option there and back again (baring hiring more porters): $1,548

That's just under the cost of outfitting a saddle horse.

That leaves $52 to split on ropes, food, etc.  Or we chip in another $8 and the Guide can carry out some loot too (small pack worth).


* This is quadruple price based on a full four 8 hour work days.

Saddle Horse at move 4 is up to 440 lbs, one of the reasons she would pay the extra $200! Even a mule at move 4 is up to 195 lbs...you do know they have enhanced move, right?



Reanna wholeheartedly agrees with this plan. Nothing like sniping a soldier running away...in self defence of course!

There is a simpler way of going faster...those who are slowest unload onto the horse until we have 263 lbs. This gives the horse a speed of 7 without magic, and may just increase our speed to 5, at least. For no extra cost...Who cannot increase their speed to 5 at least, and how much would we need to unload onto the horse to do that?

Reanna will increase her pack to capacity and attack the hip quiver and her staff to the outside, putting it also on the horse. This brings her to unencumbered, move 7, as well as the horse.

Total Horse load: Gear      11 lbs
                  Reanna 48.55 lbs

Keep it less than 264 and we are good...

We do not need magic for all of us...just the slower ones. They can pay for their lack of concern speed by paying for their own scrolls...
This message was last edited by the player at 04:25, Sat 21 Mar 2020.

I forgot it added to Travel Speed (because Travel Speed is based on Basic Move)...

Proper Basic Move for a saddle horse... don't round Basic Move down and you can't go past Medium Encumbrance (I know DF 16 rounds down, which it shouldn't, but it does...).


A Move of 5 still takes 4.2 days without a Guide.  Four point two days.  This doesn't give any margin for error or a lot time for setting up an ambush past the town.

2.8 (call it 3) with a Guide, which is more expenditure of resources, $36 per day, + tent, bedroll, waterskin, and pack to carry it at $140, so $248 for 3 days, $356 for there and back.  Though the Guide might insist on a week's pay, so $376.


So anyone that can't hit Move of 8, which gets us there in 2.65 days without a Guide (and if the horse is loaded up past 176 lbs also requires a Quick March, 3 days worth so break out the scrolls).  This is $600 worth in Quick March spells and scrolls (not counting a medium Encumbered horse which costs an added $240)

Move 7 (so the horse doesn't require Quick March), 3 days, no Guide.  2 days with a Guide.

This means we keep the horse at 264 pounds of load or less and y'all buy spells and scrolls, and we chip for a Guide, so $120 per person for Quick March ($360 total), $156 per day for the Guide (+$140 in gear), or $452 for two days.  Total $812.



Looking at these numbers I can accept spending an additional $376 to get there in 3 days (this is with Guide, Move 5 for reference).  But can the group afford it?*  (Dilandua can chip in some)


* Keep in mind, hiring 3 hirelings, equipping them, getting Quick March all around, and power marching for 21 hours, which costs us 3FP (possibly a bit more for skipping rests), gets us there in one day with only spending the advance and no extra out of pocket (except to outfit ourselves individually).  Yes, Aegis will grumble, but I bet having an extra day to whore it up while resting will quite those grumbels to a dull muttering.


[EDIT]
Note though, the "one full day of Quick March" relies on what counts as a "1 day's march" which is the duration of Quick March.  So we might just be back to "hire a Guide, walk fast' if gwythiant says "one day's march is 8 hours".
[/EDIT]
This message was last edited by the player at 07:38, Sat 21 Mar 2020.

Lol, you know Reanna has some cash. She is willing to put up $380 for the guide, but expects it back BEFORE rewards are distributed. But if we are hiring a guide, why not just make move 7, and the slower ones can pay for their spell? They should only need it for two days, maybe only even one!

Acceptable.  Dne, Aegis?


Because they might not have the cash... but Dilandua can cover that much if necessary (same conditions as Reanna's).

That's $40 for a spell, $80 for a scroll.

If we opt to Quick March, Dilandua can cover that, if necessary (I'd prefer to cover as little as possible to buy some better gear, but hey there's always next mission right?).


Travel rate with Quick March (Move 7) and Guide:  84 miles per day.
Travel rate without Quick March (Move 5) and Guide:  60 miles per day.

We have to travel 168 miles (theoretically).  So one day of Quick March makes it a 2.14 day tour (with a Guide)... so if we push an extra hour on both days, we can make it in 2 days (this means we'd be down 2 FP and need extra rest to recover it, but we'd have the time for that - hopefully).

And I was off on the cost of the Guide, I was figuring spell and scroll costs for each day... so revised Guide cost (with Dilandua covering the Quick March costs):


(no I don't love tables... it's just easier to think around the numbers when they are nice and tidy.  If I don't smack 'em around and make 'em line up, I lose track of them too easily.)

So my suggestion, hire a Guide that has both Survival and Animal Handling, put them in charge of the horse.  If we think we can trust them, take them along for the ambush (leaving them in camp to guard the horse and camp).  If we can't trust them, leave them in Remy for a couple of days vacation.  Either way, pay them for a week (if they are trustworthy, offer them daily pay if we go beyond a week).

With Survival, we move faster and the horse can graze (stretching any food we bring for it).  If the Guide can succeed at Survival rolls, we can save some rations (and get better camp set-ups).


Now... let us talk ambush tactics... (next post)

Ambush Tactics

My thoughts were we make a "kill box".  Line both sides of the road (a bit back, unobtrusively) with shallow pit traps.  Just deep enough to cause tripping and turned ankles (possible broken legs on horses which lowers there resale value) to slow anyone fleeing those directions.  Alternately we could use triplines, those are easier to deploy and easier to avoid (though if the terrain favors us), but also cost money (in ropes).

At one end we have a couple (or three) strung ropes, to clothesline/trip anyone running away (this is where Elven Rope would be useful, thinner means harder to see).

On the open side... I don't know.  Could have a tree ready to be felled to cut off escape, a slack rope artfully disguised ready to be pulled taut and fastened, whatever.  Or just someone waiting to shoot or engage any enemy running away that way.

Dilandua will scout ahead on the road a couple (or four) hours distance.  When the enemy is spotted, Dilandua uses a Quick March scroll (Move 22) and returns to give everyone the "they're on the way" warning and we prepare.

We launch the ambush with Dilandua leaping into the center and stabbing the most dangerous looking Mages and then trying to survive being surrounded.  As long as they don't use Save Or Suck spells, and I don't suffer any really bad luck on defense rolls, Dilandua should be fine.  Aegis, Reanna, and Dne engage from the flanks.  Kill Wizards first unless a Redshirt is really pressing you, and bing-botta-boom, Robert's your Aunty.  We collect loot, medallions, ears, etc, and go home...


If we can afford it, I'd like to bring a Blinding Powder grenade (idly rigged as a mine), but that's another $300+ I'm not sure we can scrape together.

In reply to Dilandua (msg # 132):

Sounds fine. I doubt that we can justify binding powder either. Reanna is best sniping with her crossbow, so she will set up to do that.

They are likely to have scouts leading...how did you intend to deal with them?

OOC: This is probably a really dumb question, but do I need to buy my own rations?  Concerning these other matters, I think I’ll defer to the rest of you, who are obviously thinking this through quite thoroughly.

OOC Aegis has plenty of cash.  He will go with whatever the brains decide.  We have company so I skimmed what you wrote and that's good enough for me.  Yes, he will grumble, but new whores are worthwhile...

Aegis is really good with a bow, so he's all about sniping.  But, he can jump in with his hand weapons if others want to do the shooting.

Does Dne enjoy going without meals?  If you can't afford a weeks rations, one of us can probably spot you.


Seeing as how Aegis and Reanna are snipers*, what about you Dne?  Ranged magic?  Swishypoke?  Are do you stay out of it until someone needs to stop dying?



* We could maybe even set up a snipers blind, or at least an area of treacherous ground so enemies trying to rush you are slowed, tripped, etc.

As for scouts, I figure either we let them ride/walk past and nail the main unit, or if they are far enough afield, we just remove them first.  But honestly, this an expedition of mages and bodyguards that probably think no one knows they are coming.  They probably think the approach to Saint Remy and most of the road to Northport is relatively 'safe' (as safe as bandit ridden woods are) and so are probably doing a 'recon in force'.



[EDIT]
And so I stop forgetting her, we have Alice the Cleric to account for as well.
[/EDIT]
This message was last edited by the player at 04:48, Mon 23 Mar 2020.

In reply to Dilandua (msg # 136):

Alice has mv 5, and is strictly for support.

You need to see Oren for a guide  at those rates, being subject to magic would require bonus pay of some kind.

A quick march spell or scroll only does 8 hours (a regular shift of marching)

In reply to Alice Abernathy (msg # 137):

Can the guide travel at 7 without magic?

Okay, that's a wrinkle that changes calculations... I'll need to maths at this.  Tomorrow after I've hopefully gotten sleep tonight.

Ooc: I can do ranged magic, area of effect magic, magic that summons a tornado, gives buffs, etc.  Plenty of lightning effects.  How much is a week’s supply of dry rations?
This message was last edited by the player at 15:58, Thu 26 Mar 2020.

OOC  Sounds like Aegis might be best served guarding Dne, while he whips up a tornado or something destructive like that.  If any of the mages try to come after Dne, Aegis can pick them off or fight them off.

Not sure how that affects other people's plans.