Out of Character 9.   Posted by Narrator.Group: 0
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1803 posts
 Blue Haired Elf
 Not from Wastrels Hope.
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 07:51
Re: Out of Character 9
In reply to Jareth Mooncalled (msg # 10):

Noticed this...and Munchkin in me got to wondering...

GURPs Power Ups 2, P15:
Attribute Substitution†
You’ve trained a skill to use an attribute other than its usual controlling score. The GM decides what to allow, and the change should make sense. Some guidelines:

DX-based skills with a complex technological aspect can shift to IQ (“Battlesuit based on IQ”), while those that involve fine work or hand-eye coordination can move to Per (“Driving based on Per”).

IQ-based skills for small tools can go over to DX (“Lockpicking based on DX”), those used to find or follow things can move to Per (“Shadowing based on Per”), and those with a supernatural angle can shift to Will (“Ritual Magic based on Will”).

HT-based skills for movement can shift to DX (“Swimming based on DX”), those with a social side can move to IQ (“Sex Appeal based on IQ”), and those for cinematic combat effects or resistance can become Will-based (“Body Control based on Will”).

Will-based skills can generally drift to IQ (“Exorcism based in IQ”), and those with cinematic combat effects or that aid resistance can shift to HT (“Power Blow based on HT”). Per-based skills involving hand-eye coordination or fine manipulation can move to DX (“Search based on DX”), and most Per-based skills can shift to IQ (“Detect Lies based on IQ”).

This affects routine skill use but doesn’t override a GM- or scenario-mandated roll based on a specific attribute (see p.B172). For instance, if an adventure calls for a Per-based Lockpicking roll, Attribute Substitution (Lockpicking based on DX) doesn’t let you make a DX-based roll – you have to make a Per-
based roll like anybody else.

You must specialize by skill and attribute, as in the examples. Nobody may have more than four Attribute Substitution perks.


Couple of Ideas:

1) Suitable to make Innate Attack an IQ based skill? Still would not benefit from Magery, like Psychic Guidance would, but would be better for most mages all the same.

2) Suitable to make Stealth an IQ based skill? Knowing how to keep quiet...

3) Suitable to make Armoury a DX based skill...

4) I think this is the basis for making Lockpicking a DX based skill, right?

5) Suitable for making Shadowing a DX based skill?

Thoughts?
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1888 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 4/10
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 11:59
Re: Out of Character 9
Christine Bjorn:
1) Suitable to make Innate Attack an IQ based skill? Still would not benefit from Magery, like Psychic Guidance would, but would be better for most mages all the same.

Yeah, but keep in mind it's also per Specialization.

quote:
4) I think this is the basis for making Lockpicking a DX based skill, right?

Lockpicking is DX based in DFRPG, you're probably grandfathered in on this one (and note Traps is based on three different Attributes depending on use:  Per for Finding, DX for Disabling, and IQ for setting).
Narrator
 GM, 7402 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 18:24
Re: Out of Character 9
In reply to Christine Bjorn (msg # 11):

Psychic guidance is a perk that makes Innate Attack (specialized by spell) into an IQ based skill.

You need the base pi/magery advantage to get a bonus on charms. Generally I use charm as "alternate path" so as to bypass prerequisites
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1804 posts
 Blue Haired Elf
 Not from Wastrels Hope.
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 19:00
Re: Out of Character 9
In reply to Narrator (msg # 13):

So magery would offer a bonus to healing spells taken as charms?

Confession...and you wonder why Christine is not so devout!

and these?

2) Suitable to make Stealth an IQ based skill? Knowing how to keep quiet...

3) Suitable to make Armoury a DX based skill...

5) Suitable for making Shadowing a DX based skill?
Ryojin
 player, 40 posts
 Martial artist
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 19:31
Re: Out of Character 9
Narrator:
In reply to Christine Bjorn (msg # 11):

Psychic guidance is a perk that makes Innate Attack (specialized by spell) into an IQ based skill.

You need the base pi/magery advantage to get a bonus on charms. Generally I use charm as "alternate path" so as to bypass prerequisites


Actually, Psychic Guidance perk lets you use your effective spell level instead of Innate Attack skill to attack as well as to cast a specific spell.


Thaumatology - Magical_Styles p 29
quote:
Psychic Guidance†
You’re capable of controlling a Missile spell with your mind
instead of hurling it like a bolt or a grenade. Use your effective
skill with the spell instead of the Innate Attack skill to attack as
well as to cast. Ranged combat modifiers apply as usual. You
must specialize by Missile spell.

Chye Isuel
 player, 1649 posts
 Osu! Ora Chye Iseul!
 Dragon descended, Youxia
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 19:41
Re: Out of Character 9
Wonder Boy's "mind bullets"
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1805 posts
 Blue Haired Elf
 Not from Wastrels Hope.
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 19:54
Re: Out of Character 9
In reply to Chye Isuel (msg # 16):

Yeah, so Psychic Guidance does benefit from magery, but Innate attack (Beam or missile) do not. That was at the heart of my question earlier. Innate attack (Missile or beam) based of IQ seems a good 1 point perk. Sort of between Psychic Guidance and Innate attack skill.
Narrator
 GM, 7403 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 20:25
Re: Out of Character 9
In reply to Christine Bjorn (msg # 17):

Stealth stays dx based-Streetwise lets you know when to keep quiet and who to ask, shadowing can default ftom it, but is iq based, armory is IQ based, because it is not just getting dressed or repairing, it is manufacturing also.

I am using specific  books, and not all extraneous options apply.

Ty for the clarification on psychic guidance, it is only a perk after all.


Magery gives to bonus to healing. Only the appropriate power investiture or magery as is required as a prerequisite gives a bonus, not one of any of the above. A mage gets a healing spell, it is not magic, it is a divine prayer.
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1889 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 4/10
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 22:12
Re: Out of Character 9
Narrator:
Magery gives to bonus to healing. Only the appropriate power investiture or magery as is required as a prerequisite gives a bonus, not one of any of the above. A mage gets a healing spell, it is not magic, it is a divine prayer.

Those bolded sentences feel like contradictory statements.
Narrator
 GM, 7405 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Tue 11 Feb 2020
at 02:12
Re: Out of Character 9
In reply to Jareth Mooncalled (msg # 19):

To clarify: if a mage gets a healing spell by way of a charm, it is a singular divine spell, not magical.
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1890 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 4/10
Tue 11 Feb 2020
at 02:32
Re: Out of Character 9
Narrator:
To clarify: if a mage gets a healing spell by way of a charm, it is a singular divine spell, not magical.

To clarify, does Magery give it's bonuses or not in this case.
Narrator
 GM, 7406 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Tue 11 Feb 2020
at 03:36
Re: Out of Character 9
In reply to Jareth Mooncalled (msg # 21):

If the charm is a divine thing, magery does not, and power investiture does.
 If the charm is a magical thing, magery gives a bonus, and power investiture does not.

Of course, having a charm for your own sphere amounts to an alternate path perk instead of a charm, unless it is something you couldn't access due to insufficient power investiture.
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1806 posts
 Blue Haired Elf
 Not from Wastrels Hope.
Tue 11 Feb 2020
at 03:59
Re: Out of Character 9
In reply to Narrator (msg # 22):

How does a character gain a charm in play?
Ardenas Barehand
 player, 1399 posts
 Human martial artist with
 a few spells on the side.
Tue 11 Feb 2020
at 10:16
Re: Out of Character 9
One of these days, I'll learn to quit letting my RP background dictate how I want to build a character.

For that time, I don't care about burial practices, do what's cheap and easy.
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1891 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 4/10
Tue 11 Feb 2020
at 11:22
Re: Out of Character 9
Ardenas Barehand:
One of these days, I'll learn to quit letting my RP background dictate how I want to build a character.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!  I laugh the laugh of those unable to bo otherwise.

quote:
For that time, I don't care about burial practices, do what's cheap and easy.

Sold to Selan it is then!
Narrator
 GM, 7407 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Tue 11 Feb 2020
at 15:35
Re: Out of Character 9
In reply to Christine Bjorn (msg # 23):

there needs be an rp reason - alternate path can come through instruction, be it weird book or Jocelyn learning a spell via telepathic instruction. Charm is different. I had misapproved a spell that came into play, and made that alternate path for Syvanus.
A divine charm could be the result of placing an offering at a forgotten shrine, but I am trying to steer away from mages learning healing without dropping in a lens with PI.
I use charms for my celestials, who have to pay for each spell like power as charms, in addition to the skill points, because, while not clerics, they are using random spells without prereq chains.
Ardenas Barehand
 player, 1400 posts
 Human martial artist with
 a few spells on the side.
Wed 12 Feb 2020
at 00:22
Re: Out of Character 9
Of course, the down side of taking path #5 (from discussion above) is having to build two characters, one of which is either from a henchman template or shaved down to 75% value from a full template.

I think the Ally is done, aside from equipment.  Not very happy with the main character, going to take another pass with a different template.  Might try a Druid with a Clerical lens, or vice versa (the god involved is, um, rather primitive).
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1809 posts
 Blue Haired Elf
 Not from Wastrels Hope.
Wed 12 Feb 2020
at 09:29
Re: Out of Character 9
Ardenas Barehand:
Of course, the down side of taking path #5 (from discussion above) is having to build two characters, one of which is either from a henchman template or shaved down to 75% value from a full template.

I think the Ally is done, aside from equipment.  Not very happy with the main character, going to take another pass with a different template.  Might try a Druid with a Clerical lens, or vice versa (the god involved is, um, rather primitive).


Down side? That is one of the fun parts of GURPs! Wait, who let the munchkin in me out....

Also considering an Ally for healing. May have to be for Gareth, though, as I am not sure if anyone else will want to heal him...he does not seem popular for the clerical types for some reason! Is there a God of Fire who supports Necromancy?
Ardenas Barehand
 player, 1401 posts
 Human martial artist with
 a few spells on the side.
Wed 12 Feb 2020
at 10:08
Re: Out of Character 9
Oh, and you think that'll be the big question?

You may wind up thinking Gareth is a nice, soothing normal...
Gareth
 player, 559 posts
 Odd Character
 Smokin' Human
Wed 12 Feb 2020
at 10:14
Re: Out of Character 9
In reply to Ardenas Barehand (msg # 29):

yes...what are you trying to say?
Ardenas Barehand
 player, 1402 posts
 Human martial artist with
 a few spells on the side.
Wed 12 Feb 2020
at 23:28
Re: Out of Character 9
Just that I've had a couple "hold my beer" moments since starting this build.  We'll see where I am when I'm done with it.  Hopefully, I can finish the complicated stuff tonight...
Aoife
 player, 675 posts
 Leprechaun
 Priestess of Cerrunos
Thu 13 Feb 2020
at 00:23
Re: Out of Character 9
In reply to Ardenas Barehand (msg # 31):

Lol, Jocelyn. No batteries here!
Var
 NPC, 33 posts
 Goblin servant
Thu 13 Feb 2020
at 01:22
Re: Out of Character 9
In reply to Aoife (msg # 32):

Those items are in aisle six@"
Jocelyn Lemru
 player, 459 posts
 Sorceress
 hot and hotheaded
Thu 13 Feb 2020
at 01:52
Re: Out of Character 9
In reply to Aoife (msg # 32):

Must be powered by a mana stone or something ...
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1893 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 4/10
Thu 13 Feb 2020
at 02:01
Re: Out of Character 9
Jocelyn Lemru:
Must be powered by a mana stone or something ...

It's a Divinely Charged item... which makes getting them recharged embarrassing...