Out of Character 9.   Posted by Narrator.Group: 0
Narrator
 GM, 7396 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Sun 9 Feb 2020
at 14:54
Out of Character 9

Last thread capping out
Ardenas Barehand
 player, 1397 posts
 Human martial artist with
 a few spells on the side.
Sun 9 Feb 2020
at 23:45
Out of Character 9
I discovered, while my head was buried in DF1, DF9, Basic, and Magic, that a Druid, as defined in DF, has no actual healing spells.  Cure Disease, Detect and Neutralize Poison, yes, but no Minor Healing, Major Healing, etc.  Get wounded, and you'd better have an actual cleric along, unless you want to spend a bunch of your loot from last adventure on healing potions for the next one.

Which is fine, unless you're building something a little off the wall specifically to fill a need for a healer but don't want a boring same-old priest of something-or-other.

Fortunately, having an Ally can often fill that gap, if the Ally happens to be a Cleric...
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1885 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 4/10
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 00:36
Re: Out of Character 9
Ardenas Barehand:
I discovered, while my head was buried in DF1, DF9, Basic, and Magic, that a Druid, as defined in DF, has no actual healing spells.  Cure Disease, Detect and Neutralize Poison, yes, but no Minor Healing, Major Healing, etc.  Get wounded, and you'd better have an actual cleric along, unless you want to spend a bunch of your loot from last adventure on healing potions for the next one.

There's five ways to go...

gwythaint allows the Charm Perk to be taken which can give you a single spell per Charm.  This spell wouldn't be affected by your Power Investiture unfortunately as, as you note, Druid's don't get Heal spells.

Two, you take New Realm (from DF 11 Power-Ups).  You'll probably be limited to the 'nature' Gods like Agriculture, Earth, Hunt, or Storm, but you'll be able to onboard the Heal spells they get.  This is 2 points per level, and expands your Power Investiture.

You could outright take a second Power Investiture and get Cleric spells as well, or buy Holiness 1 and take Faith Healing (38 points total).

Four, talk gwythaint into allowing you to just take some sort of Druidic healing ability and build it (or file off the serial numbers on Faith Healing and refluff it).

quote:
Fortunately, having an Ally can often fill that gap, if the Ally happens to be a Cleric...

And there's #5.
Aine Walsh
 player, 25 posts
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 00:42
Re: Out of Character 9
In reply to Jareth Mooncalled (msg # 3):

Yes, but unfortunately the Leprechaun Charm only allows for druidic spells. Is there a more general charm perk allowed that allows for clerical healing spells?

I am looking at #5 for Christine, though even if I get a PC healer, this may not be a bad idea. But what sort of cleric would want to ally themselves to her?
Ardenas Barehand
 player, 1398 posts
 Human martial artist with
 a few spells on the side.
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 00:55
Re: Out of Character 9
Aine Walsh:
even if I get a PC healer, this may not be a bad idea. But what sort of cleric would want to ally themselves to her?


To misuse a famous quote, "Hold my beer."
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1886 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 4/10
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 01:34
Re: Out of Character 9
Aine Walsh:
Yes, but unfortunately the Leprechaun Charm only allows for druidic spells. Is there a more general charm perk allowed that allows for clerical healing spells?

Fortunately, I wasn't referring to that particular Perk, but the Charm Perk from Power-Ups 2 Perks (which the Leprechaun's Racial Charm Perk is based on).

For Wizard/Bard spells it allows you to ignore prereqs, but still grants your Magery (or if applicable Bardic Talent) bonus.  For Divine Magic it waves the need for PI (but if you have the appropriate PI, it grants it's bonus).  Etc.
Chye Isuel
 player, 1647 posts
 Osu! Ora Chye Iseul!
 Dragon descended, Youxia
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 02:07
Re: Out of Character 9
i have a character that is half kami, and is blessed with heroic feats. i would like to acquire various charms, including healing, instead in power investiture.
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1802 posts
 Blue Haired Elf
 Not from Wastrels Hope.
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 02:30
Re: Out of Character 9
In reply to Chye Isuel (msg # 7):

Ah, this one. GM, if a mage took these for healing spells, would they get to apply magery to the spell, or is it just at IQ-2 (H) or IQ-3 (VH) until they get PI? This seems to suggest that the mage would need a god...

Power Ups 2 - Perks:
Charms†
Charms resemble Unusual Training (p. 21) but bestow supernatural, intuitive (not learned) knowledge. Each Charm waives the spell and Magery prerequisites for one particular spell. You must pay points for the spell like any other IQ/H or IQ/VH skill, and Magery gives its usual bonus. You can’t cast the spell unless you have at least Magery 0 or are in an area with high or better mana.

For divine magic, a Charm waives the need for Power Investiture – such spells don’t have spell prerequisites – and does let you cast the spell. However, you can only choose spells offered by your god.

This message was last edited by the player at 02:30, Mon 10 Feb.

Chye Isuel
 player, 1648 posts
 Osu! Ora Chye Iseul!
 Dragon descended, Youxia
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 02:57
Re: Out of Character 9
this would enable a saint/demi god to have various spells like water to wine, create food, create water, neutralize poison, cure disease, minor healing, etc. by grace, rather than as ordained priests.

This message was last edited by the player at 02:57, Mon 10 Feb.

Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1887 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 4/10
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 03:03
Re: Out of Character 9
Christine Bjorn:
This seems to suggest that the mage would need a god...

Unless Christine is an atheist, she probably does have some gods she pays lip service to...




Chye Isuel:
this would enable a saint/demi god to have various spells like water to wine, create food, create water, neutralize poison, cure disease, minor healing, etc. by grace, rather than as ordained priests.

You don't have to be ordained to get spells*.  In fact the only thing ordination (Clerical Investment) does is give 10% off holy items purchases from the Church, better sales to the Church, and allow Sanctifying Shrines and Leading Prayers... and a +1 Reaction Bonus to followers of your Faith.

You have to have Power investiture (or Charms) to have Divine Spells, and neither require Clerical Investment.


* In fact Power Investiture is available to Holy Warriors, but Clerical Investment is not.

This message was last edited by the player at 03:08, Mon 10 Feb.

Christine Bjorn
 player, 1803 posts
 Blue Haired Elf
 Not from Wastrels Hope.
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 07:51
Re: Out of Character 9
In reply to Jareth Mooncalled (msg # 10):

Noticed this...and Munchkin in me got to wondering...

GURPs Power Ups 2, P15:
Attribute Substitution†
You’ve trained a skill to use an attribute other than its usual controlling score. The GM decides what to allow, and the change should make sense. Some guidelines:

DX-based skills with a complex technological aspect can shift to IQ (“Battlesuit based on IQ”), while those that involve fine work or hand-eye coordination can move to Per (“Driving based on Per”).

IQ-based skills for small tools can go over to DX (“Lockpicking based on DX”), those used to find or follow things can move to Per (“Shadowing based on Per”), and those with a supernatural angle can shift to Will (“Ritual Magic based on Will”).

HT-based skills for movement can shift to DX (“Swimming based on DX”), those with a social side can move to IQ (“Sex Appeal based on IQ”), and those for cinematic combat effects or resistance can become Will-based (“Body Control based on Will”).

Will-based skills can generally drift to IQ (“Exorcism based in IQ”), and those with cinematic combat effects or that aid resistance can shift to HT (“Power Blow based on HT”). Per-based skills involving hand-eye coordination or fine manipulation can move to DX (“Search based on DX”), and most Per-based skills can shift to IQ (“Detect Lies based on IQ”).

This affects routine skill use but doesn’t override a GM- or scenario-mandated roll based on a specific attribute (see p.B172). For instance, if an adventure calls for a Per-based Lockpicking roll, Attribute Substitution (Lockpicking based on DX) doesn’t let you make a DX-based roll – you have to make a Per-
based roll like anybody else.

You must specialize by skill and attribute, as in the examples. Nobody may have more than four Attribute Substitution perks.


Couple of Ideas:

1) Suitable to make Innate Attack an IQ based skill? Still would not benefit from Magery, like Psychic Guidance would, but would be better for most mages all the same.

2) Suitable to make Stealth an IQ based skill? Knowing how to keep quiet...

3) Suitable to make Armoury a DX based skill...

4) I think this is the basis for making Lockpicking a DX based skill, right?

5) Suitable for making Shadowing a DX based skill?

Thoughts?
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1888 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 4/10
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 11:59
Re: Out of Character 9
Christine Bjorn:
1) Suitable to make Innate Attack an IQ based skill? Still would not benefit from Magery, like Psychic Guidance would, but would be better for most mages all the same.

Yeah, but keep in mind it's also per Specialization.

quote:
4) I think this is the basis for making Lockpicking a DX based skill, right?

Lockpicking is DX based in DFRPG, you're probably grandfathered in on this one (and note Traps is based on three different Attributes depending on use:  Per for Finding, DX for Disabling, and IQ for setting).
Narrator
 GM, 7402 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 18:24
Re: Out of Character 9
In reply to Christine Bjorn (msg # 11):

Psychic guidance is a perk that makes Innate Attack (specialized by spell) into an IQ based skill.

You need the base pi/magery advantage to get a bonus on charms. Generally I use charm as "alternate path" so as to bypass prerequisites
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1804 posts
 Blue Haired Elf
 Not from Wastrels Hope.
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 19:00
Re: Out of Character 9
In reply to Narrator (msg # 13):

So magery would offer a bonus to healing spells taken as charms?

Confession...and you wonder why Christine is not so devout!

and these?

2) Suitable to make Stealth an IQ based skill? Knowing how to keep quiet...

3) Suitable to make Armoury a DX based skill...

5) Suitable for making Shadowing a DX based skill?
Ryojin
 player, 40 posts
 Martial artist
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 19:31
Re: Out of Character 9
Narrator:
In reply to Christine Bjorn (msg # 11):

Psychic guidance is a perk that makes Innate Attack (specialized by spell) into an IQ based skill.

You need the base pi/magery advantage to get a bonus on charms. Generally I use charm as "alternate path" so as to bypass prerequisites


Actually, Psychic Guidance perk lets you use your effective spell level instead of Innate Attack skill to attack as well as to cast a specific spell.


Thaumatology - Magical_Styles p 29
quote:
Psychic Guidance†
You’re capable of controlling a Missile spell with your mind
instead of hurling it like a bolt or a grenade. Use your effective
skill with the spell instead of the Innate Attack skill to attack as
well as to cast. Ranged combat modifiers apply as usual. You
must specialize by Missile spell.

Chye Isuel
 player, 1649 posts
 Osu! Ora Chye Iseul!
 Dragon descended, Youxia
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 19:41
Re: Out of Character 9
Wonder Boy's "mind bullets"
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1805 posts
 Blue Haired Elf
 Not from Wastrels Hope.
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 19:54
Re: Out of Character 9
In reply to Chye Isuel (msg # 16):

Yeah, so Psychic Guidance does benefit from magery, but Innate attack (Beam or missile) do not. That was at the heart of my question earlier. Innate attack (Missile or beam) based of IQ seems a good 1 point perk. Sort of between Psychic Guidance and Innate attack skill.
Narrator
 GM, 7403 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 20:25
Re: Out of Character 9
In reply to Christine Bjorn (msg # 17):

Stealth stays dx based-Streetwise lets you know when to keep quiet and who to ask, shadowing can default ftom it, but is iq based, armory is IQ based, because it is not just getting dressed or repairing, it is manufacturing also.

I am using specific  books, and not all extraneous options apply.

Ty for the clarification on psychic guidance, it is only a perk after all.


Magery gives to bonus to healing. Only the appropriate power investiture or magery as is required as a prerequisite gives a bonus, not one of any of the above. A mage gets a healing spell, it is not magic, it is a divine prayer.
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1889 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 4/10
Mon 10 Feb 2020
at 22:12
Re: Out of Character 9
Narrator:
Magery gives to bonus to healing. Only the appropriate power investiture or magery as is required as a prerequisite gives a bonus, not one of any of the above. A mage gets a healing spell, it is not magic, it is a divine prayer.

Those bolded sentences feel like contradictory statements.