In reply to Narrator (msg # 891):

Having seen even modern castings, they are not 'unbalanced', but their flight can certainly be made more accurate by cleaning them up, or ' balancong' them. Question was, how much would a cornucopia pouch for such cost?

Yes, Christine is questing, technically for pyromancy divination magic. Gareth is looking at discovering death magic in an old tower. Hence my question about plant magic.

Cornucopia Quiver/Bag costs:  $$$=(X*1000)+10, where X is the cost per ammo.

So, per RAW, $710.  However Kromm has recommended increasing the cost of all ammo to a minimum of 1$ before CFs* are applied otherwise you can get some "ludicrous" examples like this one (frex in the old way this would have been like $80 which is simply a criminally low cost for a magic item that dispenses infinite ammo, and it's why almost all magic item prices were increased to Slow and Sure costs in DFRPG).

If gwythaint goes with Kromm's suggestion... a Cornucopia Pouch of Balanced Silvered Bullets is $7,010, which costs favorably when compared to a Cornucopia Quiver of Balanced, Silvered Arrows at $14,010, but is way more expensive than a simple Cornucopia Bag of Sling Bullets at $1,010.



* For purposes of enchanting only.  A pound (16 bullets) of Balanced, Silvered lead sling bullets would cost $11.20.  Which means Players have a choice, as by the pound it's way cheaper than buying the Cornucopia, but if it was only $710... well, that's not a hard choice, everyone would always get the Cornucopia Bag of Bullets (even worse at the original Quick & Dirty enchantment pricing of $45 for regular bullets).  Get outa here with them shenanigans).  But that's why the spell has the stipulation "This is tricky, because skillful players will find many creative ways to pervert this item. GMs who find Cornucopia a nuisance may ban it entirely."†


Oh, and I finally figured out why Staff is only $30, Kromm decided that Q&D enchant pricing still applies to enchants less than 20 Power Points... of which only Staff and Spellstone is that low, which is why Spellstones are also inexpensive (he may have set the limit at 40, or even 49, doesn't matter, the next limit is 50 and that's clearly in the Slow & Sure pricing range).

†  Which is so true.  I once had a Player who had a Cornucopia Sheathe of (Sharpened) Sai made... then in every new town he'd enter he'd sell a sharpened Sai... even at 1/4 a Sai's cost that "quickly" paid off his investment.  Gotta watch those Player's man, they'll bend the system as hard as they can.

In reply to Jareth Mooncalled (msg # 893):

By that calculation, a cornucopia quiver for ammunition worth $2.40 per item should be worth $2410, unless we apply the x10 cost for sling ammunition first, which would make it $24,010. What am I missing?

so, for 48 pts, you could get it as a very expensive, bonded item.

In theory.  What is the ammo?


What "x10 cost" for sling ammo?


Not sure.

In reply to Jareth Mooncalled (msg # 896):

Sling Bullets are $0.1 each, so if kromm suggests that they cost a minimum of $1 each before CF values are factored in, it will increase the cost of ammunition by 10. Hence x10.

Otherwise, sling ammunition CFs are: +19 CF for silver, +4 CF for Balanced, for a total of 1+23 CF = original cost x 24 = $2.40 per balanced silver bullet. For cornucopia quiver, $2.40 x1000= $2,400, + $10 = $2,410.

Ironically, there is a Cantrip in Thaumatology that can fill the role of a Cornucopia quiver for regular sling ammunition for earth mages, for the cost of a single character point (plus all the points for being able to cast earth magic) if you go round with a pouch full of earth:

Pebbles: Whenever you need a small stone (e.g., sling ammo), you can just reach into loose soil, sand, or rubble and find one of the size you need. If you have a pile of actual pebbles, you can pull out one that’s a specific shape – say, the perfect size to plug a hole. Earth.

Aaaaagggghhh!!  Warning, head explosion imminent!

So instead of banning all Q&D, DF/DFRPG has just lowered the limit to (roughly) that of a single enchanter working without Powerstones?  Whyn't they just say so...

So, balancing sling bullets is roughly the equivalent of a muzzle loader shooter tumbling his cast balls to even out the mold seam and sprue, so they're that tiny bit more consistent (not that I've ever been able to see sights and target well enough for that kind of optimization to make a difference).

The sensible reason to still want a Cornucopia for even silvered, "balanced" sling bullets is that the bag weighs next to nothing.  Sure, a bag of the regular ones is still pretty light, but if you're going out for a long time and plan to use the sling for hunting (to reduce the weight of provisions you need to carry), the weight of bullets you expend could add up to enough to slow you down.

In fact, to my eye, weight is a bigger concern than cost with any Cornucopia of ammunition -- plain arrows are pretty cheap, too, and how long would it take to shoot a thousand of them (off the practice range)?  But a Cornucopia quiver only weighs a pound or so, vs. a thousand arrows being grossly inconvenient to carry (needs a cart due to bulk even if the weight is only a hundred pounds or so).

Ah,  Right, he recommends that for all ammo that costs less than 1$, so it's not a "flat x10", as unshaped stones are cost $0, shaped stones are 0.05$, and sling rocks are already $1.

And if you extrapolate up a sling bullet for a heavy sling would probably cost $2.  Probably.


Exactly.  And if the GM makes the mistake of allowing Fine to affect piercing damaging...


Makes me occasionally question my decision to have Jednesa be a thrower instead of a slinger...  SM+2 heavy sling with 5 pound lead bullets?  That's sw+7 cr damage.  Makes her thr+2 cr thrown rocks seem downright anemic.

(But the real difference is when her ST adds in, thrown rocks are doing 3d+2, those sling bullets would be 7d+11... and if she could make a Powerblow roll, that's 9d+7...
/shockedpikachuface.jpg
... yes, she was in the "siege weapon" company of The Great Army for a reason.  I shoulda gone with slings...)


Yeah, if the GM allows it.  I do, but with a few Prereqs, Magical School Familiarity Perk (a school that specializes in either Earth College or Cantrips) and Seek Earth at 16+.


Side note, now that Spell Perks have come up, something I've been thinking about is most Clerics and Wizards with Continual Light should drop a point on Convenience Casting (Continual Light).  As long as the PC has 4 hours of "mundane/restful? time per day, they cold always have 7 Light Stones fully 'charged up' and ready to go.  (It's changing the wording from "7 rooms full lit" to "7 light stones".)

Because then canny Players would whine and wheedle to get access to Enchantment spells and squirm the most value per cp they could... I agree with Kromm just axing the whole dang college and saying "It's all 'S&S Enchanting', no exceptions, well, okay these explicit things I'll list later are exceptions but I'm not ever going to say that out loud like but discerning/autistic GMs (and Players) will figure it out... yes, that's what I'll do."

Okay, I kinda agree.  I agree with the axing, but not hiding all ability and magic item costs behind the curtain.


Yeah, with spincasting we can make some real nicely balanced bullets.


In DF?RPG that's all abstracted.  You don;t have to account for range arrows at all, and if you did, that should be wrapped up with Training Costs.

But yes, prepping a delver is a lot like the more extreme hiker/backpackers loadouts, squeezing it down to as few pounds of equipment as possible, while still keeping utility maximized.

Side note, anyone else been watching Peacemaker or The Book of Boba Fett?

In reply to Jareth Mooncalled (msg # 899):

So why bother with a cornicopia bag for sling stones, just enchant the sing pouch to produce a new one when the one in it is thrown?
You could pump out about 30 sling stones a minute then.

That's exactly what the Cornucopia enchantment does...

Hmmm, Maybe I should ditch my bow?

ya can't ball like $aul, unless ya sling rocks, like david! _-o

In reply to Chye Isuel (msg # 905):

Given there is a mage who does Clarence one job as an afterthought, I have wondered about an Halfling Archer/slinger for the group instead.

Might be easier and More fun to just have Clarence pick up the skill...

In reply to Brodak (msg # 907):

been watching bobf and enjoying it

[Language unknown: hatugheve lemeen Usilpris?]

In reply to Brodak (msg # 907):

His attributes are so low he would be completely ineffective at it. Better to pick up a combat spell.

Help yourself, I'm not giving up my longbow.  I'd have to be built like Brodak to get that kind of base damage from a sling, and then it's still not impaling.  Just because there's an occasional critter that partially or mostly ignores impaling damage...  I might want to add a sling, but I doubt I'd use it enough to be worth spending the points to get usefully good, vs. carrying a few blunts for my bow.  Now, upgrading my Cornucopia quiver to silvered arrows, that's another thing entirely.

Yeah, for you, just carrying a handful of blunts would be the optimal option, or 5-6 different Corny Quivers if you get stupidly flush with cash (after better armor and enchanted bow).


Test language post, so is this coming through in English, or Goobledygook?  Or, as it appears to me, it should be a mix of mostly English but a few mixilated words interspersed)?

[Language unknown: "waeero dayousoer'starut antreaoer eeaste eauareive hisventhutio contiokor dereeness fiplasmi istial utmoasli linhisome oerthuect butichshe ssasro eenpreill fihoai usie chelto findniss we unchse omewerwilson uretinect iveallousill ailell thewitted nitestha ckstwh sonantiou aveereave etwi lela deressugh dinrutear setwasrom diadwh malero haseic stce wecksa inerutwhi fiomtope menereres icheraeen conthuast thapreess mielom virortineter th utnamo olitenfo leslature ndriil derlar'evebut olio'mewh lireen ndckul eraanyion ectwasoul ntebleamethe moelli nopl-isic ingonetratin hong Houverthi pabeta watras anesll ncfi proyinardvermen ven liming omncla noacpo altama ionomedin ndlepe tinherstr urtingic oucetiac moenil eveounill in armaen eauwheand utre stibutstrsanany reaviring icanteles wioer tipres tawhch untenc lofoio wiliouiveint ofceta latresureles artsomrat wipaec mobean saitas mo thostring sti esanhe eintpe eraounest latpa haekom hoarar miwadian olriresa ismali ilons ol icher adwaou iou no thedi unistimo terho omckch nonaen th moekne whima ecck n niutnc laileibeei inarelta ngenc ionersome ittha ouheie foleha evsiie hasta saeshoof ngmise ichnteson al evepl wa anne ninttene hait beis shebledin wailla ilil haturetic herinewit on patowhho veniouous ivur trplll miospo un capr'whio eautheaintin rilero aileom lofiac lesardsonant uninar encicaich andmantraectset ovesonoer evesil ha whaimi el stecarle omeal unngta llom tiooeroun ble oneillard hahoen onsen utomfo eritee sanai neaipepr siloai less-moivli thourekor ichtrasomles willesaveres hisrathis intsonvir ore ithderndeven etusisof ndecos ectsetbutugh ionineeau houeenwil thulesrutith sonbutith diacis lattrated rom ivureithsi ounwheter es oreoneateout arlantou nti whentisan anerom uselar aletro enthersanoneshe oerdayandugh san aretinous hermanson usilce naunhe ionkoraveint stiromeve eletatel pareme preicastaeen thusantio encveryin undthoreders meleal pahoil mawewaacle ingrat'latkor haswitsan latoutainund latandard ingderson chlean po itnaunwa reaith nowind ure tiowileauill diisndnd itheauher evssad eksiis prac icbe'prol ameit utolpo nceundencreswit outeauort homeos sheconcom utoful dinstaame venai vortheill teprta osrein aseimo setwaswer ioesivom stwhut omouev neutur onloilto eter'tent butwerere wit voromeore whiwasted atiiouwhe es ieosek preillany ughdinint newial estastenc enitutie ivecomest moneec ughomende rutmanwheconeve waevad plchun anymenwas eautervennce earsetfor ncthrietck wausmi esto fimica entredout noulev eiar ilteta ainateoer chetnd viroerver tinereillain us ersoureen ntbeta ndeentith siac ersalless motipe ntatan sson stmeer lewiss pearul sanvorher ountinpro"]

This was an experiment of the Known Language Function of Private Language Groups, had this been an actual Private Language Group usage...

I asked Gwythaint to help perform it because I'm too fekkin lazy to create that many (N)PCs and he already had over 311 "non-name" words being used as PC/NPC names.

In reply to Jareth Mooncalled (msg # 911):

Mostly know languages...

In reply to Clarence Montague (msg # 909):

Or talk with the GM and Mod the character ... it makes it easier for both of you.

So most of the words show up dotted underlined and the mouse-over says "Known Word'?

Excellent.  That's exactly what I hoped would happen, though I'm intrigued by the ones that didn't.  "the" "of" I kind of expected to see in English, so there must be a "do not affect" list, and some others like "soldier", "shevnian", and "thing".  I suspect it might be a case of repetition, the words show up frequently enough in the Cast List that they must be tripping a "do not affect" case and aren't being treated as Names.  This means ... sigh... more experimenting is needed (unless jase just pops into my RPoL Development thread and lays bare all the secrets) to see where the line is drawn.  And if the line can shift with repetition...  hmmm.


Ugh, now I have to create bunches of NPCs in my test games.  Sometimes my "OCD/Need to Know All The Things" response gets triggered over the dumbest things.



Exactly, sometimes Characters just don't work the way ya hope they will.

Not sure whether it's because I'm on a browser (SeaMonkey -- a slightly old version of Firefox with a skin that looks/acts like old Netscape Suite) rather than the app, or if this works on browsers as well, but yes, one of my characters does speak Eldritch (though it's on the sheet as "Elder Speech" because I didn't know what Gwythaint had called it when I built the character, and haven't changed it since) -- but I'm getting everything in those PMs as plain English words.

Pretty sure Gwythiant only added me to the Language Group so I could run this test (and it's a RPoL database side thing, the Language Function scrambles the words on it's side so you can't pull any browser shenanigans and unscramble Language Lines on your browser).  And there should be about 7 words being goobledygooked, can someone take a screen pic?  Or here, just let me know if these words are mixilated in the post for you:

"in" "leader" "masher" "of" "shevnian" "slimy" "soldier" "the" "thing" "troll" and "warrior".

(IE, are those words in the Language Line block mixed up or underlines and and regular?)

What it looks like for me:
https://i.imgur.com/addCDLg.png


I was thinking it was due to how often the words show up on the Cast List... but, then we have this dichotomy where Village (which shows up 5 times in the Cast List) gets scrambled, but soldier does not (which shows up 4 times).
https://i.imgur.com/pvjQV4d.png


It's weird.  I'll have to sit down and do some hard experimenting on my game where I can more readily control the Cast List and see if I can figure out why some words are being treated like Names and some aren't.