In reply to Urrun (msg # 86):

Cool. He would need 4 points to increase crossbow though!

In reply to Hograth Podkarmen (msg # 87):

The Common Room;

Due to partial success, James and Percival get 1pt each, which are spent on their Valet, the others get 3pts each, and the one who gave up the potion also has a 1 pt perk:favor. This could be built into Ally if you are willing to put up eirh Lourdad's oafishness and crimial past.

In reply to Narrator (msg # 88):

Juniors:
Everyone gets 4 points, there is the following loot
Cheap weapons:
Dagger $3
Shortsword $64
Large knife $6
Thrusting broadsword $120
Spear $9
Knife $3
Axe $9

In addition to these weapons, he carries a pussiant+1 broadsword, worth $5500

There is also a gem embedded in the hilt which may be a very valuable spell stone

In reply to Narrator (msg # 89):

Clarence may be interested in the spell stone...if it can be removed without destroying the swords magic.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:46, Mon 25 Feb 2019.

No really?  :P

Pretty sure everyone would, but it's probably waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside anyone's individual share, so if we do end up with it as loot, it's probably getting sold (Alaric might not want to part with it).

Also if it's a Spell Stone, it's probably the Wish Spell Stone, as a Spell Stone is a single use 'spell enchanted' rock, not a Powerstone or Manastone (we aren't using Powerstones/Manastones* as this is 'DF', not generic Fantasy).


* Or are we GM?

In reply to Jareth Mooncalled (msg # 91):

Power items technically have Mannastone cast in them. This is likely insanely expensive

So... you're changing the rules on how Power Items work?

I think I'm going to take a powerstone, as a signature item. give it a few interesting quirks.. otherwise, I just can't cast some of my more potent spells!
This message had punctuation tweaked by the player at 04:55, Tue 26 Feb 2019.

In reply to Jareth Mooncalled (msg # 93):

I suspect that's just an explanation of how an item can be enchanted with Power (though since most Power items aren't limited-charges, it'd properly be Powerstone, I think -- I'm on vacation, don't have my books with me).

Power is an option for enchantment, and requires the inclusion of a sufficiently large gem, but it's likely to be a "dedicated" Powerstone (reduces item cost by a large factor, making such items only insanely expensive, rather than impossibly so) and thus can't be removed from the item in a functional state.

This game doesn't use Powerstones.  As it's DF... if we do*, there are people who would like to know...


* GM, are we using Powerstones?



Except Power Items aren't enchanted, and work like neither (okay, they're similar to Manastones, just radically cheaper, and not Enchanted).  That's why when Chye had his nunchucks upgraded with silver inlay, they became a more potent Power Item (or would have had Chye used Power Items, though I suspect Chye might use Heroic Power Items, or that he could...).


And that's the only part* about Power Items that chafs my jimmies.  Endurance Items require a $1K ritual to become Endurance Items... but Jareth's shortstaff became a Power Item just because I willed it so (and he actually draws from a Power Source that's Magic, Divine, or Psychic).



* Okay, not the only part.  That Psychic Items work like and not like other Power items is chafing and not-chafing...  Chafing because this isn't a standard DF game with a week's downtime so Jareth's staff will never, ever be at full charge.  Not-chafing because... well, he'll also never likely need to spend more than 1 FP on Psychic powers per day so it's innate recharge rate keeps up with his needs (Psychic Power Items recharge natively at 1 FP per day, all other Power Items must be recharged "in town" for $5 per FP).


Yup, that is how self powered magic items work in GURPS Magic... but DF doesn't fly using those rules... so... that all depends on how the GM runs it (though I suspect gwythaint runs it that way).
This message was last edited by the player at 13:24, Tue 26 Feb 2019.

I certainly hope we use powerstones. otherwise being a mage is going to be limited to drinking potions that make ya blind. it's like bathtub gin, all over again! xD
This message was last edited by the player at 16:55, Tue 26 Feb 2019.

In reply to Jareth Mooncalled (msg # 96):
Chye's naginata and nunchaku are named items,and gain their own experience points, which can be converted into magical effects, at a rate of 250 power, per exp point. i'm saving them up for some cool effects, that will suit him well.

40,000 posts in and the powerstone question hasn't been decided.  Seems like the first thing any good finger-wiggler would be asking about, because they are very useful caster tools.

I'll preface that observation with...  I'm new to the game, so I shouldn't probably have an opinion about what should or should not be.  The whole DF setting is new to me, and this is the GM's own custom world.  I can't say I know what the answer should be.  Plus I decided against the magic type this time around, so it doesn't affect me quite so much.

That said, as the GM I might not give you a straight answer.  Might be on a case-by-case basis, or he might have multiple other layers built in towards fulfilling this sort of role.  Plus, as written in the basic books, powerstones are potentially unbalancing if not managed carefully.  I have seen arguments about sillier things, to be honest.

I say let it lie for now.  The GM will probably consider the topic, and make a decision at some time in the future (if not already done).  We have a good game here, with layer upon layer of detail.  I'm willing to work with what we have for now and let the GM get around to it when and if he wants to.  We would all like to know the answer, but let's not put the GM on the spot.

In reply to Balir Ironhide (msg # 99):

There were changes to the DF rules when the DFRPG set came out.  One of those was the elimination of Quick & Dirty enchantment (with the exception of the Staff spell), with the result that even a Cornucopia Quiver of ordinary arrows is now a $1300 item (as I recall -- it's a BUNCH more than the $125 it used to be, in any case).  Another was a further nerfing of power storage -- even one-shot manastones are almost impossible to obtain; a mage can have a designated "Power Item" (power storage proportional to $ value, which means a big reservoir is likely to be conspicuous), but they can only be recharged by NPC enchanters.  Also, PC enchantment is now completely gone; that's an NPC only function.

The underlying reasons, I presume, were balance related -- though I didn't think things were unbalanced in the first place, as long as you don't try to combine Powers with GURPS Magic (might be okay even then, if you're better than I am at building wizards).  "Balance" in a primarily dungeon-crawling game environment, however, likely differs significantly from "balance" in a more open-world game setting.

Generally, though, our GM is playing almost entirely by DFRPG (which differs little from the DF supplements to vanilla GURPS aside from the changes to magic items).  That means no manastones, no items that self-recharge, except hugely expensive NPC-made items with permanent enchantments.

You can have a mana reservoir for your caster; look at "Power Item" in the first DF book.  Costs $5/fp to have recharged by Spielgud or the other Guild mage (whose name I've forgotten).  The value to capacity formula there hasn't changed.

In reply to Ardenas Barehand (msg # 100):

Having said that, there are some of the older magic users that use 'grandfathered' items and statistics. Hence the confusion and uncertainty.

Probably also explains why he's letting us have named items that grow with us as they are used.  That allows everyone to have a level of magic item more-or-less equivalent.  Might leave the mages a little bit behind, but i get the sense it will even out over time.

oh yeah, suddenly being a mage just plain sucks.

I would disagree.  It is also possible to spend character points on Extra Fatigue.  Combine that, high skill (most efficient, for a long spell list, if you have a high IQ + Magery), and a Power Item, specifically buy up skill in Recover Energy and a couple other key spells (a missile spell and one or two signature tricks), and a mage is a force to be reckoned with, even if they avoid paut aside from extreme need.

Were I human, I'd have had many more points to spend on spells, Extra Fatigue, and high skill level -- though I'd be less able to shrug off arrow wounds, poison, and the like.

It's called Power items.  They've been mentioned several times now.  They're arguably better than Powerstones.




As far as I know it was decided a long time ago, we're using DF/DFRPG rules but allowing off template characters.  Just we have new Players that don't seem to have made characters using DF at all, which I've said a few times is a tremendous flaw in our GM's methods.

It's one thing to 'go off template' but still know what the setting switches of the game are, it's another to make characters wholecloth with no direction from the DF rules...


Powerstones in vanilla Fantasy are expensive, most Wizards can't afford them at chargen.  When they have to make choices between armor, magic staff, other equipment and Powerstones.

Power Items take that hassle out of the equation.  If you can afford any equipment at all you got a Power/Heroic Item.


Not really, they're just a pain in the ass to adjudicate recharge times.  A 'one shot' pool of FP that you can only recharge in town is a lot simpler on the GM's paperwork.




Not quite.  In DF Wizards can't take Enchantment spells, so that was already right out before DFRPG.


No, they're genre related.  Sean Punch (the creator of DF) didn't want to run a game for a group of mumptys hangin out in town enchanting items.  He wanted PCs heading out into dungeons seeking treasure.

So he removed the entire college of spells that discouraged adventure play.

These choices were further refined in DFRPG... and I think he went too far 9but I do get there were also page count consideration in DFRPG).


Power item is for spellcasters, costs $5/FP to recharge between adventures.

Heroic Item* (must be weapon, armor, or shield) is for Weapon Masters, TBaM, and Heroic Archers that need more FP to power themselves in fights.

Psionic Item* is for psis.

Endurance Items are for anyone, but that FP can only be spent on completely mundane stuff, marching fatigue, Extra Effort, sleep dep, lost meals, etc.  No FP draining attacks.  Requires a $1k ritual to turn ordinary piece of gear into Endurance Item.  The Item now actually counts as an Endurance Items and is 'enchanted"... kinda?  Anyway it's more valuable and you can own as many as you want.  The cost $5/point to recharge betweens adventures.


Power Items, Heroic Items, and Psionic Items have no intrinsic value as a "Power Item".  Being a Power item doesn't increase it's value, they cannot be 'bought' as Power Items.

And you can only ever own one of each, and must be able to use the power source (Magic, Divine, Psionic, Heroic).



* Heroic items came from DF 18 Power Items and  it and Psionic Items use... wait for it... Passive Recharging.  Sigh.  1 point per day.






Not even a little.

Except that, under DF, there wasn't an explicit prohibition against NPC enchanters making Q&D items -- +1 Fortify, +1 Puissance, and +1 Accuracy, for instance, Cornucopia for ordinary missiles, and a few other items in the under-100 fp category were almost dirt cheap (at $1/fp) when Q&D was permitted.  An archer who didn't buy a Cornucopia quiver was cheating himself.

With S&S the only kind of enchantment, even a Staff spell ought to cost $625 ($25/fp for 25 fp), hence the exception it enjoys, since wizards need their wands/rods/staves.  IMO, Q&D should have been kept; it would still have low level fighters, for instance, choosing between Accuracy and Puissance, but with a couple points in Wealth at least able to afford an enchanted weapon from the start.

Then again, a Staff that's worth $625 would make a very acceptable power item for most starting wizards...

Except that Power items use an items MUNDANE value, before enchantments...

In reply to Ardenas Barehand (msg # 106):

There was a whiff of powerstones, Spielgud has some that belonged to Flax, also a charging rack, left over from 3e. There are none elsewhere.
Ximmiv was an enchanter pc from before Sean's purge, and he and I had worked out that power item recharging was via the manastone spell. However, after the player left, I gave the character the  50 pt"can charge power item" advantage from DF18. He is the go to guy, and holy items get recharged in Paolo the Pardoner's high sanctity room.
Likewise Charal casts Clean all day from her 1 yard high mana area...

Passively charging psionic items can recover energy faster when next to sleeping elder things. Usually not a safe proposition...but functional here...


As to the off book characters, there are a bunch of 3e players who don't own any 4e, so there are a handful of unpowered characters, along with a l9t built from mismatched templates from DF 15, which I like.

Any idea of how much $$$ the Juniors will get?  ... looks thin w/o Alaric's (assumed) sword.

In reply to Jocelyn Lemru (msg # 109):

It is not a huge amount of cash, but that stone...

$10 each, with $10.6 going into the 'house fund" and $5 for Charlene.  This doesn't count the orichalcum cuffs or Alaric's sword or the Wish Stone (presuming it is a Wish Stone).