OOC - 12/16.   Posted by Kitten.Group: 0
Kitten
 GM, 6100 posts
Wed 13 May 2015
at 01:03
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
First mission wrapped up, Pusscat XO and Ironswords XO have 2 1/2 weeks or so to wrap up, if you cant wrap up in that time, i will look the missions over and work out a summary resolution for what happens.
Akarian Euclid
 player, 386 posts
 R3 - 1st Lt.
Wed 13 May 2015
at 11:49
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
Just waiting on Kappa to try an destroy me, doesn't seem he has logged in for a few days.

This message was last edited by the player at 11:50, Wed 13 May 2015.

Kitten
 GM, 6101 posts
Wed 13 May 2015
at 12:05
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
Waiting on Pussycatss (XO) to post move/fire orders myself. so yeah..

i'm waiting too.
Lucius McMurphy
 Alt, 1818 posts
 NCO1 - Corporal
 Callsign - 'Burner'
Wed 13 May 2015
at 14:40
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
I'm cooling my heels in the Lancers :)
Alaric Drusus
 player, 22 posts
Wed 13 May 2015
at 15:18
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
All right folks. Once more for good measure, and then I think I'll be out of your hair with regard to creation. :)

I have one person's input for these 70exp saying that I should either sit on them to buy Energy Weapons 2, or find 30 more exp and buy that now. I could drop both the Evasive Movement, and Sprinting specialties from Hazard Check and Mech Specialist respectively to get those 30 exp. That would leave me with those options at 1 each with no specialties, and Energy Weapons at 2 with Clutch Shot.

Being able to reliably hit is important, but I can't really weigh the opportunity cost. Part of me wants to throw (some) caution to the wind and pile on the offensive capacity. Another part of me points out that it's still a 20T mech and caution is relevant to my long-term survival.

Your insight is appreciated, thanks!
Akarian Euclid
 player, 387 posts
 R3 - 1st Lt.
Wed 13 May 2015
at 15:28
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
I'd question the option and exp of Hazard Checks in general, when you have a mech that can jump for 6. Unless you plan on either getting kicked/kicking a whole lot, or taking a ton of 20+ damage hits (which you likely can't survive to start with) I'm not sure why you be making a ton of pilot rolls?

Thats just me though, not sure how you plan on playing exactly.
Svetlana Arnadottir
 Alt, 25 posts
 R2 - 2nd Lt.
 Snow Witch
Wed 13 May 2015
at 15:33
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
I think he's taking the Hazard Option not to avoid falls, but for the specialties.
Lucius McMurphy
 Alt, 1819 posts
 NCO1 - Corporal
 Callsign - 'Burner'
Wed 13 May 2015
at 15:38
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
Though remember the advantage of having a bonus against hazards means reducing the chances of you having to make a pilot hit from falling, allowing 'safer' running on concrete, better landing rolls from orbital drops and the specialties.

There are a lot of uses for it...they just appear to be passive at first glance.
Alaric Drusus
 player, 23 posts
Wed 13 May 2015
at 15:40
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
(Svetlana and Lucius are on target here.)

I don't plan on doing a lot of kicking and will try to avoid both being kicked and taking 20+ damage hits. I like Hazard Checks more for the Evasive Movement and Roll With the Punches specialties than for the bonus to avoid falling down.

A 20T mech on a field of mostly larger mechs seems to me like a motorcycle on the highway. You might be faster and more maneuverable than just about everything on the road, but one misstep and you're not just having a bad day, but more than likely dead. Those two Hazard Checks specialties strike me as 'defensive driving' skills. Commuting through Maryland/Washington DC traffic in a Fiat has taught me a few things about being both aggressive and defensive behind the wheel.

I'd be happy to hear other opinions on it!
Joaquin Cortez
 player, 356 posts
 Callsign: "WarDog"
 Spider (SDR-5V)
Wed 13 May 2015
at 15:45
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
I agree with Akarian on this point. As an original 8/12/8 mech (Spider-5V), I found that while I preferred the quick movement and ability to get in and out quickly, I wasn't drawing a lot of XP or resources as the others were. In the system it is imperative that you gain as much as you can in regards to XP/CBills due to the "auction" system. I've had to learn on the fly and have found that being able to still go 8/12 has helped and ton. I had to remove my JumpJets entirely to get the functional abilities I wanted. I ended up going CAT in place of Energy Specialty (my initial choice) for those very reasons. Next Mission I should see the results of my changes (due to some factors out of our control they weren't ready for the current mission).

My plan in the long term is build a slightly less weight Venom. I'm fairly close to that goal now. I might need some upgrades to finish filling it out as best I can in this particular setup.
I have 40 ton prototype in another game that is a monster to handle. Its pretty hardcore in the scenario we play in. Endo, XL, 8/12/8, 20 DHS, 6 Meds, ECM, and maxed armor. She handles her role as a Recon Killer nicely. I couldn't build that in this particular setup. I'm enjoying Kitten's tweaks none the less. It makes playing Light Mechs a lot of fun. They are normally overlooked by many players. I currently do tabletop with several of the Catalyst guys (Ben Rome, Paul Sjardjin, Chris Sheldon, Chris Callicoat, Chris Searls, Brain "Hellbie" Bunch, Herb Beas and few others I've know awhile) and this is a totally different spin from what we normally do.
Akarian Euclid
 player, 388 posts
 R3 - 1st Lt.
Wed 13 May 2015
at 15:49
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
Yep its a matter of play styles really. I'd considered the benefits of it for skid checks and what not, but jump jets tend to be amazing on maps that are full of concrete hell. Also for landing/scatter checks from orbital drops.

Evasion has its uses, but prevents attacking that turn.

One could argue that tactics might be more useful, as losing init can seriously compromise your position and offense.

That said, lots of valid points for hazard checks to.
Alaric Drusus
 player, 24 posts
Wed 13 May 2015
at 15:56
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
Tactics is my next choice. It's fair to say that, being able to move after the other guy is likely more advantageous than having to move before him, but getting to make yourself hard to hit. Tactics also helps with increasing NCO ranks down the road.
Svetlana Arnadottir
 Alt, 26 posts
 R2 - 2nd Lt.
 Snow Witch
Wed 13 May 2015
at 18:49
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
Cant be all things to all situations.

You can only work out what's important to your playstyle.

What works for someone else might not work for you, so you really should follow your own muse regarding how to build your character and how to play it.

There is no randomness for character builds.  You have cash... xp... options... and now specialties... there are no random dice rolls to decide anything beyond starting advance equipment, so much of the randomness is out.
Teri Knight
 player, 407 posts
 Panther, P5, G5
 Callsign: Catgirl
Wed 13 May 2015
at 19:54
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
   And in building your character, don't forget about after the battle.  Having the parts set aside to repair a certain amount of damage to your armor at no cost can be very important.  Also, having the ability to trick out pimp customize your ride your way cannot be overlooked.

   It's all about you and the way you play.

This message was last edited by the player at 19:56, Wed 13 May 2015.

Svetlana Arnadottir
 Alt, 27 posts
 R2 - 2nd Lt.
 Snow Witch
Wed 13 May 2015
at 20:22
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
Alaric Drusus:
Tactics is my next choice. It's fair to say that, being able to move after the other guy is likely more advantageous than having to move before him, but getting to make yourself hard to hit. Tactics also helps with increasing NCO ranks down the road.


Teri makes a good point.

You should really consider what youre piloting and how much youre going to want to modify it.

Lucius is piloting a heavily modified Wasp.  (Message 4)

I'm piloting a heavily modified Locust.  (Message 5)

They're not going to be brute forcing through any missions but they're both a lot leaner and meaner than their size might suggest.

link to a message in another game


You're not going to be able to get where we are out of the box, but if you dont think about it, and start gathering what you need you'll never get there.  About the only nice thing about 20 tonners is they're inexpensive to modify.

Keep in mind the modification caps though.  base 2 tons of modification for a 20 ton mech, plus mental ability ranks.  Though if youre in a Stinger-3G, really there isnt a lot more to look at to trick it out.  I think your biggest issue is that you dont have enough guns on it.  You have two medium lasers on it, and Joaquin will be the first to tell you, that on a mission, two medium lasers feels under gunned.

The surest path to survival is to bury the op force before he buries you.
Lucius McMurphy
 Alt, 1820 posts
 NCO1 - Corporal
 Callsign - 'Burner'
Wed 13 May 2015
at 20:37
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
I didn't start with any advanced tech because I started back at the beginning so it's taken me this long to build up my hoard to do the massive mods...and built my character in such a way that I could do them using Kitten's version of modification limits.

Still the best way to figure out what you like and don't is to play and see it in action.
Svetlana Arnadottir
 Alt, 28 posts
 R2 - 2nd Lt.
 Snow Witch
Wed 13 May 2015
at 20:54
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
We're both playing concept 20 tonners.

My concept is to throw out 40 criticals of space on the mech to mount Ferro/Endo Steel.  That doesnt leave a lot of space to work with for equipment, but as a 20 tonner, i dont need a lot of space, and missing 2 actuators in each arm helped me along.


Lucius is playing a bit of a min max game with his Wasp, he's balancing everything on the mech for a purpose.  If it's on the mech it's there for a reason.


Its almost a clan like mentality, in taking the absolute smallest mech you can find acceptable and tricking it out to be ton for ton, the meanest thing on the map.  The catch is, often, it wont be a ton for ton fight.

This message was last edited by the player at 20:55, Wed 13 May 2015.

Lucius McMurphy
 Alt, 1821 posts
 NCO1 - Corporal
 Callsign - 'Burner'
Wed 13 May 2015
at 21:32
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
Yeah in a way it is very Clanner style.

I can only do a few more things to it to make it more effective...and that's debatable on the persons perception of things.

Swap in Endo but have to get rid of Ferro.  Possibly take advantage of BAES in the Legs by shifting Jump Jets into the Torso's but then that leaves me a little short in the armour department but very secure in piloting rolls versus hazards.  Or equalized the armour and install the remaining BTC to make sure all four of the lasers are linked.

Could do both if I yanked two of the three jump jets and only left one on to aid in orbital drops and little hops up cliffs right next to me that I couldn't walk/run up.

Get enough Hoff Heat Sinks and I could start swapping out the regular lasers for ER versions.

Stuff like that.

All very expensive modifications moving forward.
Svetlana Arnadottir
 Alt, 29 posts
 R2 - 2nd Lt.
 Snow Witch
Wed 13 May 2015
at 21:43
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
I'm essentially in a baby jenner.

A little faster, non jumping, but with the same 4 medium lasers and 10 heat sinks.

Wont take a hit like a jenner, but my mission foot print is almost half that of a Jenner so in theory at least, the stuff i'll be running into will be half the size of a jenner.
Lucius McMurphy
 Alt, 1822 posts
 NCO1 - Corporal
 Callsign - 'Burner'
Wed 13 May 2015
at 21:46
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
You know if I got myself a ER ML I could almost call myself a micro-grasshopper.

And if you hadn't phased out the LRM2's I really could be ;)

This message was last edited by the player at 21:49, Wed 13 May 2015.

Joaquin Cortez
 player, 357 posts
 Callsign: "WarDog"
 Spider (SDR-5V)
Wed 13 May 2015
at 21:48
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
2 meds was no fun. If I had my version of Joaquin now, back then, I'd have made a descent dent in things. As it stands, did little damage and watched others soak up kills & XP. Tough pill to swallow.
Lucius McMurphy
 Alt, 1823 posts
 NCO1 - Corporal
 Callsign - 'Burner'
Wed 13 May 2015
at 21:52
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
At least here kill xp and c-bill bonus is shared when you do damage to the same things that get killed.  Two mediums can be just fine you just have to think about things in a different light when you're playing a Spider and your combat role is different than other 30 ton mechs.
Kitten
 GM, 6105 posts
Wed 13 May 2015
at 21:53
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
LRM 2s were a cute concept...

but they were just too grossly advantageous compared to the slightly longer ranged AC/2.


Everyone starts on a learning curve Joaquin, that why i encourage new players to talk to the players.  Even so he'll probably want to twink stuff and make use of the mini mulligan somewhere along the way is my guess.
Kitten
 GM, 6106 posts
Wed 13 May 2015
at 21:56
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
Going to have to start looking at Mission 17.

My prediction is that the Pussy Cats CO lance and Iron Swords XO lance will advance.

Iron Swords CO lance was mostly a non-show so Adam and Olaf, if he's back will get to sit on defense with the lancers, just faster missions.  I have serious concerns for the Pussy Cat's XO lance, with Rixx absent, they're really hurting on player leadership to get through the mission.

Appoint Quintus, mission leader for now... Till Rixx gets back he'll run Rix.

Hank runs Evans

Greyson runs both cadets.
Lucius McMurphy
 Alt, 1824 posts
 NCO1 - Corporal
 Callsign - 'Burner'
Wed 13 May 2015
at 21:57
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
LRM2's would be great on 20 ton and lighter mechs when matched with fire discipline/sure shot.

It would be like a mini Reggie ;)

---

Could have Adam show to help out Pussy Cat XO...