OOC - 12/16.   Posted by Kitten.Group: 0
Alaric Drusus
 player, 25 posts
Wed 13 May 2015
at 21:58
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
I cannot tell you how useful all of this is for me (seriously, thank you!). The specialties are very useful in terms of providing inspiration for well, specializations. There will always be trade-offs and I'm getting a stronger idea of which things are more important to me. Two outcomes are important to me here: being very fast, and able to shoot a bunch of lasers. With that in mind, trading jump jets for better ground speed and more lasers seems like a good move to me. I'm thinking that Stinger is not as much for me and probably more like the Locust or the Mercury. Still a little hazy on how modifications work, as well as what kind (if any) can be done before entering game.
Svetlana Arnadottir
 Alt, 30 posts
 R2 - 2nd Lt.
 Snow Witch
Wed 13 May 2015
at 22:08
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
Running a locust/mercury is not without dangers.

Browse Mission 11: Fort Brag

The Valkyries were all runners, no jumpers and were entrapped and mangled over multiple turns when they couldnt run anywhere.  No the dangers you're working with when you make certain decisions.

Mech mods...
link to a message in another game

This message was last edited by the player at 22:09, Wed 13 May 2015.

Alaric Drusus
 player, 26 posts
Thu 14 May 2015
at 01:24
Re: refresher for VTOL Campaign rules
So, as an example of modifications. Let's take a Stinger-3R (https://web.archive.org/web/20...3025/bm-Stinger.html).

Let's say we wanted to drop the MGs in the arms and the ammo from the CT. Together they weigh 2T and take up 3 crits. Could we replace them with 2 additional Medium Lasers, say, one in each arm, leaving us with 2 ML in the RA and 1 ML in the LA.

a) is this a possible modification? b) how many tons of modification does it count as?

Assuming that the above is possible, would it then be possible to drop 2 Jump Jets (say, 1 from each LT and RT) and add a 4th medium laser? How many tons of modification would that be?

What would the cost be for these modifications?
Lucius McMurphy
 Alt, 1825 posts
 NCO1 - Corporal
 Callsign - 'Burner'
Thu 14 May 2015
at 01:44
Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
Alaric Drusus:
So, as an example of modifications. Let's take a Stinger-3R (https://web.archive.org/web/20...3025/bm-Stinger.html).

Let's say we wanted to drop the MGs in the arms and the ammo from the CT. Together they weigh 2T and take up 3 crits. Could we replace them with 2 additional Medium Lasers, say, one in each arm, leaving us with 2 ML in the RA and 1 ML in the LA.

a) is this a possible modification? b) how many tons of modification does it count as?


Yes it is.  You have to pay the removal cost for the MG's and Ammo bin.  You have to buy the Medium Lasers and then pay in the install cost to slot them into the existing criticals.  Depending on your upkeep costs (don't know if Kitten covered that bit yet with you) you could either sell the MG's and Ammo or keep it in storage if you wanted.

It counts as 2 tons of modifications.

Alaric Drusus:
Assuming that the above is possible, would it then be possible to drop 2 Jump Jets (say, 1 from each LT and RT) and add a 4th medium laser? How many tons of modification would that be?


Yes, you could pull the Jump Jets after paying the removal cost, which then you would sell (keeping those isn't helpful because of the exponential cost difference).  Then you'd have to buy another medium laser, and pay the cost to install the laser either in the critical you didn't use from removing the MG and Ammo or one of the slots where the Jump Jets were.

That would count as another ton of modifications for a total of 3 to this point.

Alaric Drusus:
What would the cost be for these modifications?


Not bad and possible for a starting character but much harder once you are in the game.  I'd pop the numbers in for you but I'm also filling in for a BM so I don't have the time to do that at this juncture but tomorrow morning maybe.
Kitten
 GM, 6128 posts
Thu 14 May 2015
at 02:20
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
Mech critical locations are actually a resource for modifications.  You cant just put equipment anywhere, you have to vacate space and then you can use the location, or you can put them in the arm critical.

Keep in mind that you can only mod 20% of the mechs weight to start, so you can do 2tons just from the mech weight, to do three tons, would mean you need a point of mental to justify it.

Mental doesnt help you hit stuff, or stay up right or dodge damage, but it does have some uses in the campaign to keep it useful, key among them for a non leader character would be mech modification.

For a unit leader it's really important.
Alaric Drusus
 player, 27 posts
Thu 14 May 2015
at 02:52
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
I thought there was room in both the Tonnage and crits to make it work. If this is correct, it should fit within the available space. I would just need to know how to determine the cost of removing the MGs, Ammo, and 2 JJs, and purchasing and installing the 3 additional MLs. Also how to determine if I can purchase the lasers (edit: if the costs listed in the PDF are accurate, the 3 lasers would cost 120,000cb). It is a 20T mech and I put Mental 1 on him, so he should be able to do this, provided the total modification cost is 3T.

Stinger-3R Base

Weapons & Equipment:    Loc     Heat    Ammo    Crits   Mass
1 Medium Laser          RA      3               1       1.00
1 Machine Gun           RA      0       200     2       1.50
   (Ammo Loc: 1 CT)
1 Machine Gun           LA      0               1        .50
6 Standard Jump Jets:                           6       3.00
   (Jump Jet Loc: 3 LT, 3 RT)
TOTALS:                         3               47     20.00
Crits & Tons Left:                              31       .00

Remove Machine Gun from LA (frees up 1 LA crit and 0.5t)
Remove Machine Gun from RA (frees up 1 RA crit and 0.5t)
Remove MG Ammo from CT (frees up 1 CT crit and 1t)
Remove 1 JJ from LT (frees up 1 LT crit and 0.5t)
Remove 1 JJ from RT (frees up 1 RT crit and 0.5t)

Free Crits: LA 1, RA 1, CT 1, LT 1, RT 1
Free Tonnage: 3.0

Purchase and Install 1 ML in LA (takes up 1 crit and 1t)
Purchase and Install 1 ML in LT (takes up 1 crit and 1t)
Purchase and Install 1 ML in RT (takes up 1 crit and 1t)

Free Crits: RA 1, CT 1 (plus any which were available prior to modifications)
Free Tonnage: 0

Weapons & Equipment:    Loc     Heat    Ammo    Crits   Mass
1 Medium Laser          RA      3               1       1.00
1 Medium Laser          RT      3               1       1.00
1 Medium Laser          LA      3               1       1.00
1 Medium Laser          LT      3               1       1.00
4 Standard Jump Jets:                           4       2.00
   (Jump Jet Loc: 2 LT, 2 RT)
TOTALS:                         3               45     20.00
Crits & Tons Left:                              33       .00

This message was last edited by the player at 03:00, Thu 14 May 2015.

Lucius McMurphy
 Alt, 1826 posts
 NCO1 - Corporal
 Callsign - 'Burner'
Thu 14 May 2015
at 03:16
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
What you need for most things: link to a message in another game
Tech Availability - Current Timeline

That should have the costs for items.

A Wasp's repair modifier is 1.2 and that is figured buy adding 10% of the mechs tonnage to just past the decimal mark.  Hatchetman would be 1.45 in the grand scheme.  The bigger you get the more expensive it is to monkey around with it.

Thus buying each medium would cost 40k and installing it would be 8k

You should be able to figure out the rest of the weapons for yourself.

Other modification rules (as well as Jump Jet values allowing you to figure removal/install costs) are here: link to a message in another game
Mech Modifications
Alaric Drusus
 player, 28 posts
Thu 14 May 2015
at 03:30
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
Is it then just the installation cost to remove something?

e.g. Adding a 6th jump jet to a 20T Mech costs 44,000 to purchase and 44,000 * 0.2 to install, so removing the 6th jet would cost 44,000cb * 0.2 = 8,800cb. And the 5th jet would cost 36,000 * 0.2 = 7,200cb.

Is it also fair to assume that modifying a mech during character creation still requires successful rolls to acquire the new components?
Lucius McMurphy
 Alt, 1827 posts
 NCO1 - Corporal
 Callsign - 'Burner'
Thu 14 May 2015
at 03:41
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
Correct the install costs are the same as the removal costs.

For any 3025 technology aka non-advanced there is no roll needed at character creation but you have to install it on your mech.  You can't stockpile stuff.

So for your Medium Lasers you have no trouble.  Any questions about what is and isn't just ask away, I don't mind letting you know if you aren't sure about it.
Alaric Drusus
 player, 29 posts
Thu 14 May 2015
at 03:50
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
How about the ammo for the MGs? Is the removal cost for that just 0.2 * (cost of 1T MG ammo)? Or is there an additional cost since the entire capacity to store ammo is being removed?
Lucius McMurphy
 Alt, 1828 posts
 NCO1 - Corporal
 Callsign - 'Burner'
Thu 14 May 2015
at 03:53
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
Since there is 'standard' ammo for all weapons the costs of the ammo bins is for the standard load.  In this case MG's use cheap ammo so the bins that hold them are cheap.
Alaric Drusus
 player, 30 posts
Thu 14 May 2015
at 04:11
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
Understood. Thanks for all the help! I'm heading to bed over here. Will put the numbers together in the morning. Should be just about done with the sheet as well. Now for more RP research.

This message was last edited by the player at 04:12, Thu 14 May 2015.

Lucius McMurphy
 Alt, 1829 posts
 NCO1 - Corporal
 Callsign - 'Burner'
Thu 14 May 2015
at 04:15
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
No problem.  I had to rebuild a map from scratch so I was busy until just now anyhow.
Kitten
 GM, 6143 posts
Thu 14 May 2015
at 15:14
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
(Kitty yawns) Just finished the Academy mission design, just have to see how many ironswords show up for it.

Alaric will probably be slotted to play as a freelancer with the Eden defense missions, which i'll get on typing up next.
Alaric Drusus
 player, 31 posts
Thu 14 May 2015
at 15:29
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
From the RTJ thread, I believe I have the option of trying to make up to 3 availability rolls. Would it be reasonable to try to pick up 2 ER MLs? I know they take an additional crit, but there's space in the arms for those. This would be upgrading the existing ML in the Right Arm to ER (or moving that one to the torso, if it can be done without increasing the total modification tonnage), and buying a second ER ML for the Left Arm. Regular MLs would go into the two torso spots.

edit: The 13+ tn for the availability roll might actually make it impossible for me, which I hadn't considered initially.

This message was last edited by the player at 15:31, Thu 14 May 2015.

Kitten
 GM, 6144 posts
Thu 14 May 2015
at 15:34
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
Pass or fail you may only make one roll for something.

So you may try for one but will never get two.
Svetlana Arnadottir
 Alt, 31 posts
 R2 - 2nd Lt.
 Snow Witch
Thu 14 May 2015
at 15:41
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
Alaric Drusus:
edit: The 13+ tn for the availability roll might actually make it impossible for me, which I hadn't considered initially.


You start looking at stuff that adjust the rolls then.  2 point of mental or 2 points of rank add 1 each, and noble and well equipped options add one for each level in the option.

Sometime bonus go up for auction as well, but this wont be any help for start up rolls.
Alaric Drusus
 player, 32 posts
Thu 14 May 2015
at 17:35
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
I wanted to make sure the intended modifications are functional within the limitations of the Stinger-3R, so I pulled the crits from the WizKids 3025 record sheet and put them in Google Sheets. Everything with a dash was empty on the base sheet and is highlighted red (except the ones in the arms) to indicate they are unavailable for use. The five critical locations being altered by the intended modifications have comments to indicate what is being done there. I also included a log on the right listing what is being removed, from where, at what cost, and what is being installed, to where, and the cost of those items. Can anyone confirm that this is both accurate and falls within (or exactly) 3T of modification?

https://docs.google.com/spread...8xk/edit?usp=sharing
Penny Plenty
 player, 578 posts
 R3 - 1st Lt.
 Gumdrop
Thu 14 May 2015
at 18:16
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
MG ammo is only 1k cb, not 10k cb.

Everything else looks about right to me.

( Also for people contemplating engine changes, take a look at message 6
link to a message in another game )
Greyson Strauss
 player, 186 posts
 MechWarrior
 Striker
Thu 14 May 2015
at 21:05
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
I'm just curious, but what happens to me kitten?
Kitten
 GM, 6150 posts
Fri 15 May 2015
at 00:21
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
Will have to ransom back the valkyrie.  Cost of the ransom impacts everyones pay out.

Up to fifty percent, if it still comes up short, it'll have to be sold, the difference paid to the ransom to get it back in the first place, and you take what's left to buy a new ride.

exact numbers are elusive at the moment i need to work on the mission but got distracted with a busy day.
Alaric Drusus
 player, 33 posts
Fri 15 May 2015
at 12:50
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
Good morning folks! I can see the light at the end of the number-crunching tunnel. Modifications are ready (https://docs.google.com/spread...8xk/edit?usp=sharing). In short they take a Stinger-3R, remove both MGs, the MG Ammo, and 2 Jump Jets to add three MLs. Making it a 6/9/4 mech with 48 points of armor and 4 medium lasers.

There are still a fair number of C-Bills left over and I know there are options there. I need to determine what to do with the equipment removed for modifications (sell or keep), but I'm not sure where to go from there. What kind of supplies can I get for post-mission repairs? Other options?

Character creation is basically done, but I still need to sort out how to finish spending (or not spending) the exp. I have two options, and I appreciate any insight that you're willing to offer.



Option #1:
This one starts out with more specialties but will have some unspent exp regardless of what I do. I can a) sit on the 70 exp to buy something in play, or b) bump something that costs 50 exp to 2 and sit on the remaining 20. The things which can be bumped to 2 for 50exp include Mental, Edge, Light Mech Specialist, and Hazard Checks. The bonus of the last one would be leaving me only 15 exp short of Roll with the Punches to help out with the inevitable crits.

Experience Log Wallet
EntryAmountCurrentTotal EntryAmountCurrentTotal
Character Creation350350350 Character Creation3,200,0003,200,0003,200,000
Bug Warrior50400400 Bug Warrior-500,0002,700,0003,200,000
Accuracy 3-100300400 Walking the Edge-300,0002,400,0003,200,000
Physical 2-50250400 STG-3R Stinger-1,615,440784,5603,200,000
Mental 1-25225400 Modifications-162,200622,360 
Light Mech Specialist 1-25200400     
Energy Weapons 1-50150400     
Hazard Checks 1-25125400     
Energy Weapons (Some like it hot)-25100400     
Hazard Check (Evasive Movement)-1585400     
Light Mech Specialist (Sprinting)-1570400     

Attributes
Accuracy3Base tn 5+
Physical2Base tn 6+
Mental1Base tn 7+

Character Options
Edge1
Light Mech Specialist1Roll 2d7 for pilot checks in 10-20T mechs
Energy Weapons1Roll 2d7 for attacks with energy weapons
Hazard Checks1+1 to pilot skills to avoid falling

Specialties
Light Mech SpecialistSprinting
Energy WeaponsSome like it hot
Hazard CheckEvasive movement

RankMW
Bank622,360
RestrictionMechs up to 20T
MechSTG-3R Stinger (modified)
Linkhttps://web.archive.org/web/20...3025/bm-Stinger.html



Option #2:
This option leaves no unspent exp, at the cost of limited specializations and focusing on energy weapons out of the gate. Energy Weapons 2 is quite expensive as far as purchase options go and this would permit me to buy a second specialization for it in the not-too-distant-future.

Experience Log Wallet
EntryAmountCurrentTotal EntryAmountCurrentTotal
Character Creation350350350 Character Creation3,200,0003,200,0003,200,000
Bug Warrior50400400 Bug Warrior-500,0002,700,0003,200,000
Accuracy 3-100300400 Walking the Edge-300,0002,400,0003,200,000
Physical 2-50250400 STG-3R Stinger-1,615,440784,5603,200,000
Mental 1-25225400 Modifications-162,200622,360 
Light Mech Specialist 1-25200400     
Energy Weapons 1-50150400     
Hazard Checks 1-25125400     
Energy Weapons (Some like it hot)-25100400     
Energy Weapons 2-1000400     


Attributes
Accuracy3Base tn 5+
Physical2Base tn 6+
Mental1Base tn 7+

Character Options
Edge1
Light Mech Specialist1Roll 2d7 for pilot checks in 10-20T mechs
Energy Weapons1Roll 2d8 for attacks with energy weapons
Hazard Checks1+1 to pilot skills to avoid falling

Specialties
Energy WeaponsSome like it hot


RankMW
Bank622,360
RestrictionMechs up to 20T
MechSTG-3R Stinger (modified)
Linkhttps://web.archive.org/web/20...3025/bm-Stinger.html

Svetlana Arnadottir
 Alt, 39 posts
 R2 - 2nd Lt.
 Snow Witch
Fri 15 May 2015
at 12:54
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
o.O

You dont want to put another ton of armor on?

Armor is life, especially in a light mech so little internals.
Alaric Drusus
 player, 34 posts
Fri 15 May 2015
at 13:00
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
I could mod a Stinger-3G in similar fashion, dropping 2 jump jets and adding a 3rd ML. It has 64 pts of armor, would that make more sense?
Svetlana Arnadottir
 Alt, 40 posts
 R2 - 2nd Lt.
 Snow Witch
Fri 15 May 2015
at 13:11
Re: Modifications?  Who wants those things? Bah!
I almost always work as much armor onto a mech as possible, as a player, before looking at equipment.

Especially with a 20 tonner, you get hit its going to hurt, why make it easier to blow you up?