Which means you need to find mechs that have gear in their CT as well as usually HS in their legs.

It's possible that Kitten might relax it insofar as allowing JJ to go in legs but that will mean you're stuck with even pairs of them.

Possible, with logical limitations.


1 ~ Jump Jets may only be placed in the torso or legs.

2 ~ Critical space must be available for Jump Jet Placement.

3 ~ Jump Jets must be placed in a symmetrical fashion.
ie.  If youre going to have an odd number of jump jets, the odd numbered Jump Jet would need to go in the Center Torso.



Requirements one and two are the killers, because with the mech modification rules, it's hard to get the critical space to install jump jets on a mech that doesnt have jump jets.

Conversely, mechs with jump jets are actually good mechs to modifiy,because you can remove the Jump Jets to make room for equipment.

---

(Suggested things to look for.
Heat sinks in Torso/legs... These can be moved to the arms, making room for jump jets.
Check your mech for a variant that jumps, and slowly aim towards converting your mech towards that variant.
All else fails... sell the mech for one that jumps.

Right, so thats what I was mostly expecting.

Using my mongoose as an example, I could free up 1 critical space in the CT and fill it with a single JJ, but couldn't use the other free CT critical, nor the other free critical slots in the RT/LT, or legs. (Since nothing was vacated, they just never were filled to start with.)

Which squarely moves me into suggestion #3 buy a different mech.

Thanks Kitten, I can stop crunching math now.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:11, Thu 25 June 2015.

Yeah.

I treat mechs as specific designs with specific limitations.

Theyre not Mr. Potato heads that you can modify with the use of math using construction rules.

The biggest thing to look at for mechs that you want to modify is actually the available critical space available.  Everything else you can tweak with more or less, but available critical space is hard to work around.

Biggest exceptions to this rule are the criticals used for endo, ferro, and... a little used for IS/DS HS.

---

Mongooses are a great mech, they're just off the shelf mechs that are hard to modify though.

Commandos, at the same weight are slower but have better critical options, though they are slower and off the shelf dont jump.  They are however a great fixer up mech.

It's all a trade off.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:05, Thu 25 June 2015.

I was going to suggest to you a Spec to add Tinker.

Let someone put something in a normally unused Crit spot for each level.  Bend that concept rather than breaking.  Still won't be a Mr. Potato Head but it will allow a little more flexibility if someone wants to take up one of their options with Tinker.

That's a good suggestion, i'll think I'll add that.

Level one will be a critical for each level they have in tinker, level two could double it, so you could 'cheat' on up to four criticals with level 2 tinker and maxed spec.

Still... for the cost, i'm not sure it's worth the 100+ xp ?

Well between Tinker adding up to 2 additional tons of possible mods and at second level adding a +1 to Availability Rolls the fact that you'd spend 25xp on Level 1 and 50xp on Level 2 followed by around 25xp for that Spec...

I know Luc and most Bug Warriors would likely take it given the choice.

Welcome back Roger, I have to see what's happening with the Light Lancers.

If the unit disbands, you'll be put in the active freelancer pool.

Quick note...

Akarian is forming up a quick, nimble, skirmish/scouting unit, that relies on speed... EW... and fire support to complete missions.  Finesse, Tech, and use of advance rules like EW, Artillery, and so forth can be expected.  A more advance game can be expected here.

Adam is putting together an old fashion brawling unit.  They go in, get dirty.  Two units in, one unit out.  Less stress is put on advance rules that make use of EW and Fire support.  A more basic game can be expected here.

Priority Freelancers.
You've all been priority freelancers... at one time or another.  With the rise of personal inventories and conventional units, you can stay a priority freelancer and stay clear of the hassles involved with being a part of a set unit.  You can favor one unit over the other, or pick the one that makes the most use of your talent.  Specialized mechwarriors (like EW) or LAM Archeypes, players that want to stay unattached (for whatever reason) can stay a priority Freelancer.

They will get to play every mission, how welcome they are depends on what they bring to the missions.  If believe you can stay in demand and bring more to the mission than you cost, being a Priority Freelancer is not a terrible thing.

per player request, all recent mission threads made available for reading.

They are still in need of final summary and bookkeeping so please do not post on them, they are there for review and research, not comments.

Comments and questions regarding them should be made here.

im thinking of um...well...mostly just retiring in general...it was fun playing with you guys, ive just lost that spark for the game...I wish you all the best of luck in your future endeavors...

Hope I didn't scare you off with my PM, but if your not feeling the game, sometimes its as simple as that.

Best wishes Greyson.

Don't think it was Akarian. Think it was the lack of being able to play something bigger. I understand Kitten has her idea going, but a lot of players feel really limited in Lights.
In my experiences, you move in a Light mech. Speed is your defense. Takes some getting used to, especially if you are one of those plodder types. Most players I know head right forAssaults thinking bigger is better. I tend to favor Mediums over everything else. I just think from what I gathered he was really hoping to get into something bigger.

I really like the campaign being light/medium based, and I even enjoy the mod limits as a sort of puzzle. It's really refreshing and requires a lot more thought in some ways than the old heavy/assault mech throw down that is so typical.

I don't think you're wrong though, I was talking about running a game IRL here as there is a decent sized group of players in the area. I wanted to keep it light based though, interest immediately died down to almost nothing. 3025 tech era and such wasn't helping much either, everyone was wanting unlimited double heat sinks and the rest. It really doesn't appeal to me now adays.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:28, Wed 01 July 2015.

You can run a medium mech here for sure, just need to be canny about how you do it so that the tonnage you bring is worth the tonnage that it gives the OpFor to use against you.  It's a mixed bag really but I've been playing in a 45 tonner pretty well now since M13.

Hell if I re-did Adam as a Lyran I would have the coin to buy a 55 ton Hoplite.

Old time players understand my philosophy.

I tend to let players play, and do what they want.  My thought is there's no one way to play the game and i dont want to taint people from what they want to do.  That said, it's about time that i repeat the driving premise for the campaign again, cause as ive been remined... it's been at least over a year since i've said it out loud.


Bigger is not better, bigger is just bigger.

Takes the concept of strategy out of the game, cause you dont move or go anywhere fast.  Bigger relies on lots of guns and armor to carry the day.  It's a slugfest that takes little thought, little strategy, and in the sense of mission objectives, really lacking in ability to do what needs to be done.

Scout...?  too slow.

Urban fighting?  good luck with that movement profile.

Hit and run?  well maybe hit, now they're rear guard for the units retreat.


They also have an awesome mech footprint.

Missions are not a reflection of reality.  Missions are balanced on the player units that go into the mission.  The larger the mechs used in the mission by the players, the larger the op force gets.  This being the case, the mission doesnt get easier by piloting big mechs you make it harder.  Reliant of arm and weapons scales.  The Op Force gets more armor and weapons too.  You actually slow down making it easier for the op force to hit you.  You actually give the op force more guns to focus on one hapless player and ruin his day.  God forbid you team with lighter players your footprint will get them all killed.

ie.  The Pussycats run a balanced unit that averages around 35 tons.
Raven, Panther, Jenner...  All built and modified tough and mean, no flabby fat among them.  All can take damage, all can dish it out.  No obvious weakness.  Add Regina a 30ton feral freelancer that more than earns her keep.  That's 135 tons of nastiness that can handle most missions that come their way.

now lets introduce a Lyran Mechwarrior into a light unit Akarian wants to put together.  Say he has...
Mongoose, Spider, and Whitworth.... tack on a 40ton hunchback, with a character that has sub average skills cause, Lyran mentality takes away .  That's also 145 tons of mechs... but... theres a problem.  The Hunchback pilots skills arent on par with the rest of the lance.  A Warrior VTOL comes in behind him and triggers an ammo explosion in the back early in the game.  You now have 95 tons of mech in a mission designed for 145tons.  Everyone is giving the Hunchback player a dirty look for bringing a large mech into the game and getting blown up and leaving them over matched now.

Why is the Hunchback going to get blown up?  It's the least mobile...it has ammo vulnerabilities, and the player probably lost initiative one time too many, or fell down because they didnt have a decent pilot skill, or they're 50 tons of ineffective mech cause their gunnery skill wont let them hit.

---

Is there a use for the Lyran Mechwarrior...

Yes... but very specialized... the suggesting to revamp a heavy into something like an Arrow IV mech, or an off map bombardment mech by an alt, isnt a terrible job for a lyran minded mechwarrior.  The weight is off the mission and sub standard skills wont kill the mission.

The larger Op Force that the smaller unit now has to face is not only harder to defeat, it's going to take longer, cause they have more armor... and they're over matched by a factor of 3:2...  yes, the Op Force will have a large component of Conventional which normally gives the player the edge,but that edge goes out the window with such a weight imbalance.

All unit commanders, and veteran players by now understand this.  When you start tipping into the higher mech weights you're making the missions harder, youre playing against

"Ling's Rules of Engagement."

Really really really old players that have been with me know, that i started Battletech on RPOL in a campaign similiar to this one with shared BMs and multiple merc units.  I loved that concept.  What i didnt like, was that there tentative medicore play by slog footed heavy and assault players with no talent beyond self preservation and kill stealing were rewarded.  It made for a really uncooperative environment that rewarded the selfish and made for really really long games as everyone looked to survive the mission and kill steal experience from one another, it felt more pvp at times the way they threw each other under the bus for personal gain.

Ling's rules of engagement, broke that thinking.  Lighter... quicker... smarter... meant more got done using synergy and we broke the bank and got rich very quickly.

Old time players that were in Mac's games will vouch that Ling's Wolf Pack was easily the most successful unit in Mac's game, and ton for ton would mangle any of the other units, and quite often shocked the BM's with the ruthless prejudice we put the Op Force down with to complete the mission.  We would finish an entire mission in the time it took other unit to just muddle through a single turn.

Adam and Teri were both in Ling's unit and can vouch first hand for what i'm saying, other players from Mac's game can vouch at how quickly we went from a brand new unit to the meanest unit in the game in what felt like over night to me.


Yeah, i'm on rant...  Final comments on the topic of my views here...

Players are free to pursue whatever makes them happy in the campaign within the scope of the game... roleplay... dont role play... dive deep into the game, or just show up to post your turns, take a hiatus from the missions here and there.  Play what makes you happy.  It's your character.  Theres no one way to play the game, as the constitution says, youre all entitled to pursue your personal happiness.

That said...

This is a player driven campaign.  Supply and demand is determined by the players.  God help them, if a bunch of Lyran minded players wanted to get together and play a unit I'd given them my blessing, then give them last rites as i tore them up after a proper warning.  Your pursuit of happiness is fine, as long as it doesnt interfere with another players pursuit of happiness.

That Lyran minded Hunchback that got himself shot up, is not only unhappy at this point, he's also left me three irritated players in an unfair situation.

Case in point...

I lost Hank from the campaign recently.  I actually liked Hank, he was a solid motivated player, but he was in a blackjack, a larger mech that was unpopular with unit commanders.  It's a player driven campaign, i can not make the players like the Blackjack character, when he's weighed in to equal nearly two mechs and isnt viewed as being worth the opposition that's going to bring.  Hank eventually up and left which bothers me cause i thought he was an okay player that under different circumstance might have done better and been happier.

If i have a function here, it's to provide my players with an enjoyable experience.  I can only do that by affecting the environment, i cant make them play nice with one another.  I need them to look at one another and compromise.  I need some players to understand that individual happiness is not always achieved the same ways for different people.  I need those people to understand that what they want may not always be popular, and there is a reason for it and consider the position of the greater contentment of the players (themselves included).

I lose players... good ones... bad ones.. indifferent ones... a campaign like this is built to have a rotating player base and survive.  I miss some players more than others, i remember them all, and they leave their mark on the campaign in some way shape or form.  If they go... they go with my blessing, because none of us are paid to be here and when it's not fun and work, it's time to close the shop.  If you go, just want them to be aware, that it's their choice, and to know what they're leaving behind.  Time... work... and things in the flesh and blood world cost me players that i hate to lose and there is much affection on each side when the parting of ways happens.

My personal goal, is to see if i can evolve this campaign to the point where it wont need me anymore.  Good people and good documentation is needed for that.  I'm durable and last longer than most, but even I wont last forever.  I'm just curious if this will out last my twilight campaign.

^.^

A very inspirational speech indeed kitten, its just that I have very poor luck in general, and to you it seems like light makes right, and that their is no real room in your game at all for anything over 20 tonns, which removes a lot of options, which makes sense in one perspective, but kills other options.

an example being a heavier set up mech would be perfect for hold the base style missions, getting their turn to make sure where the lights come home and recupperate doesnt get blown to bits by the advancing armada of enemies, along with missions where we actually definitavely push back the enemies, because even if they are clunky or slow or have a bigger electromagnetic footprint, having something that could make sure nothing comes up behind you and bottles your ass in is something i would like around me...

sorry for my rant and the reason im back is because it popped up on my list even after i removed it...

end of the day, light and medium mechs are best together for scouting/raiding things, heavy/assault mechs are good at map clearing fights and last ditch effort defenses...in my mind at least...
This message was last edited by the player at 06:37, Wed 01 July 2015.

anything over 20 tons is a bit of an exaggeration.

With Tech Warrior you can get something as large as 50 tons.

With the use of Lyran mentality you can get something all the way up to 55 tons.

The question is, once you make this character, will there be any sort of demand/welcome for it.  I'm not the judge on that matter.  As noted, this is a player driven campaign, talk to Adam and Akarian about it, the unit commanders.

From the unit description, it sounds like the hammer anvil approach is not something his unit is gearing towards, which leaves Adam as a possible commander for you.  If you can sell him on this, by all means generate the character.

As i said, I try not to meddle with character approach as much as possible, though i do drop warning when i see the potential for disaster, particularly when it's likely to spill over to more than one player.

Its one thing to take an accidental ammo explosion in a 30 ton mech, with 'average' foot print, do it in a 50 ton mech, and your lance maters are going to have a harder time picking up the pieces.  This is just a warning, because if you go this route, you need to earn your weight in the mission.  You must be prepared to engage and successfully deal with at least your mech weight on the mission map, is the yard stick of success for a good player/mission.  The larger you get, the harder it is to meet that mark.
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:14, Wed 01 July 2015.

Greyson as I said in my PM I was happy to look over and work with you on some designs if you put them together. EW is a complex one though, and would take quite a bit of effort. The reality is support stuff is hard to do, as often the best support is a good offense in these campaigns. Playing heavier mechs(40+) really is essentially a bit like doing the EW above in this campaign, it takes a good amount of work and finess for it to pay off and be favored.

Kitten and Adam might laugh at me, but I've probably sunken 15+ hours into various ways to redo Akarian with this mulligan and unit re-org. Now that's an advanced character and a unit leader so there are a lot of extra considerations, but I'm sure I'd probably be at least half of that for a heavy weight, or EW character.

The Spectres have some room for a heavier mech or two like whitworths or custom jobs. This is mostly for the LRMs, but a mech that can move 4/6/4 or better, has a bunch of armor and can dish out some damage to, isn't without merit.

15 hours.

(shudder)

Yes.  From all the questions you ask me, yes...i can see that.

If i didnt have to muck over campaign stuff, i'd probably be tweaking stuff out like you and Adam, from the stuff Adam's grinding up, he's throwing some serious time into the mini mulligan thing too.

Like i said, were here cause we love the game, not cause were being paid for it.  If you're throwing 15 hours of thought into it, you probably have a great love for the game, i wouldnt laugh at that (some one else might but not me)

Yeah... the biggest benefit from archetypes is for characters with Excess cash to throw it into character development...

I'll admit, it's a cheap ploy to suck money out of the player economy early.

:P

Archetypes have been twinked.

All of them have a modest 'advantage' now, to help the Archetype identity along, and added a modest limitation to Tech Warriors initial mech selection.

It doesn't help this happened on the week I decided to take off work *laughs*, but yeah I love this game/campaign a lot. I've invested endless hours into it really. I mean I had a Battletech/aerotech background from 20+ years ago, but never got into conventional units, infantry, advanced tech or the rest. I remember doing most everything from like 4 sheets of paper, and a bunch of paper mech print outs full of Robotech rip offs which was fantastic.

Since starting this game I've also bought the 4 big Classic Battletech books as well.

Anyways back to LAM crunching after that latest archetype tweak... Pilot 5 required now, I may just have to turn Akarian into a bloody LAM commander at this rate.

If you want  a special  brand  of torture, crunch numbers for a ew lam commander...

Done that.