RolePlay onLine RPoL Logo

, welcome to War Under a Blood Red Moon

13:23, 4th May 2024 (GMT+0)

Notices.

Posted by StorytellerFor group 0
Storyteller
GM, 74 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Sat 23 Aug 2014
at 02:54
  • msg #1

Notices

The game has been in hiatus for many moons so many I have decided to begin it again. I welcome all new players and any of the old ones too.
Storyteller
GM, 75 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Sun 24 Aug 2014
at 11:23
  • msg #2

Notices

O.K. Crew here is the skinny. So far the pack consists of a Lupus Silver fang Gillard, a Homid Ahroun Silver Fang, a Get of fenris ahroun lupus, and what looks to be a Fianna Ahroun Lupus.

A lot of rage here peoples and very little experience with humans It should prove interesting, I look forward to getting things underway.
Storyteller
GM, 85 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Thu 28 Aug 2014
at 10:13
  • msg #3

Rules Errata

To the players,

A while ago (last attempt at this game) I was asked to look at the silver tolerance merit (7pt). I have reviewed this and I have looked at the changes WW have made from the first players handbook to the 20th anniversary edition.

I see that it has been changed each time from a complete immunity to silver in the first ed to soak-able agg damage and less gnosis loss in 2nd ed too just soak-able at diff 8 in the 20th anniversary ed.

I trust that WW has been adjusting this on purpose as it was overpowered, but too compromise and to make sure they didn't take this too far as they are prone to do, I am making a house ruling on this merit.

This merit will act as per the 20th anniversary edition rules but with a diff 6 not 8, so the gnosis loss for holding silver will still apply etc. And as always I reserve the right to return this to Diff 8 should this minor change cause an unfair advantage or a deduction to players enjoyment of the game.

I have already adjusted this in the 20th ed .PDF I am supplying to players. Play on and Play well.

From the Story-teller.
Storyteller
GM, 95 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Mon 1 Sep 2014
at 09:49
  • msg #4

computer

OK so I dropped my computer today and the screen has gone buggy I am sending it in for repair so if my posts are short please forgive me as I am using my phone..
Storyteller
GM, 101 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Wed 3 Sep 2014
at 05:00
  • msg #5

Recruiting

Ok We have 6 players I have closed the game I feel this is a good size pack.
Storyteller
GM, 700 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Mon 9 Nov 2015
at 10:02
  • msg #6

Specializations.

Hoping to give some clarity:

Players should clear any specialties with the
Storyteller, who can veto any specialties that are too broad
(such as “guns” for Firearms or “healing” for Medicine) or
that focus solely on game mechanics (“dealing damage”
for Strength or “soak rolls” for Stamina). The player and
Storyteller should work together to express the character’s
concept through specialties.

I am trying to use specialties to really flesh out characters. Please don't make them broad for example

LockJaw:

Suck it up : soak rolls??? Please categorize this further eg soaking silver as you have the merit. or soaking bullets.. This should apply to a category within the category there are a lot of soak rolls made against various things.

Leaf Storm: go for the jugular should be exactly that. If you make a jugular shot then that is why you get the special 10 re rolls.

Tooth and claw could also be a bit broad too I would be tempted to make it one or the other.

This is a good specialty well thought out and not over used: "Papa Bear Strength": When one or more of his allies are in trouble, strength tests to aid them gain the specialty benefits. I view this as catching a truck falling off a bridge with your friend in it.

Feats of strength Lockjaw is a good one too it applies to very specific rolls and will make the character fun too play.

I am sorry that I may seem to be picking on you both but you both have specialties that seem more attuned to getting the most out of the mechanics not the most out of exciting game play.

Just remember a specialty is exactly that.. If your able to use it all the time (soak rolls lockjaw...) then it ain't too special is it.
Lock Jaw
player, 193 posts
I will crush you
*Flex and Kiss bicep's*
Mon 9 Nov 2015
at 10:48
  • msg #7

Specializations.

What there was no comment about this before....

Alright since I am silver tolerant I will be especially silver tolerant I will specialize in soaking silver.

what is a suitable second specialization for stamina??
Nancy Pride
player, 180 posts
Mon 9 Nov 2015
at 11:30
  • msg #8

Specializations.

Do you get two?  The very small blurb RAW seems to say you get a specialty for anything four or above.  Not sure if that is for each dot?

Mainly asking as Nancy has a five so if she's supposed to have two for that, would be good to make sure.

Tireless?  Useful for long stretches of intense activity, like chasing down prey.
Storyteller
GM, 705 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Mon 9 Nov 2015
at 11:46
  • msg #9

Specializations.

I don't mind you taking two (it is a throw back to an earlia version but they just need to be concept based not something to get the most out of the mechanics..

So you're a silver soaker then LJ .. HAHa bad pun..
Leaf Storm
player, 166 posts
Lupus Ahroun
Warrior of Uktena
Mon 9 Nov 2015
at 12:51
  • msg #10

Specializations.

quote:
Tooth and claw could also be a bit broad too I would be tempted to make it one or the other.


So...?
Storyteller
GM, 708 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Mon 9 Nov 2015
at 19:34
  • msg #11

Specializations.

In reply to Leaf Storm (msg # 10):

Can you break it down further? E.g

Gripping Bite which would be your specialized at gripping an opponent when you bite them you get the specialist bonus on the attack to grab them and the strength check when they try to break free.

or

Stabbing Claws - you are adept at driving your claws like daggers into an opponent, You wouldn't be able to uses these attacks all the time but when you do they are more effective.

Currently Tooth and Claw as you have it refers to almost any attack you make. in any form bar Homid form, can you see why I say it is too broad.

Your not the only one doing this.. and I am sorry that It takes me soo long to process all the character sheets, and the skills and abilities you have.

If you think that this is un-fair, I sympathize with you but look at it from the other side of the coin. You and the others are already mincing machines of carnage, You don't really need the specialties at all. the specialties are added to give flavor to the game not benefit to you from game mechanics.
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:35, Mon 09 Nov 2015.
Lock Jaw
player, 196 posts
I will crush you
*Flex and Kiss bicep's*
Mon 9 Nov 2015
at 22:30
  • msg #12

Specializations.

Now I need to rethink my specializations I feel like your messing with the concept of my brute force tank.... I should have 2 specializations for strength and 2 for stamina.

I will take "silver soaker" but I'll put it as high tolerance, on the sheet. Is leaper ok as a strength specialization he re-rolls 10 for rolls to make jumps?
Storyteller
GM, 712 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Mon 9 Nov 2015
at 22:44
  • msg #13

Specializations.

Sorry you feel that way Lockjaw.  But I must ask if there were no specializations would you have made Lockjaw the same way? I will hedge a bet of yes. My point is the specialization doesn't make the character it just adds flavor.

And powerful jumper sounds ok it will only help you to jump not kick or run, or do parkor. Just jumps.
Lock Jaw
player, 197 posts
I will crush you
*Flex and Kiss bicep's*
Mon 9 Nov 2015
at 23:11
  • msg #14

Specializations.

Hhhhmmmgrrrr ... just so we are on the same page what does the specialization feats of strength i put down count towards in your mind? I thought that would be for things like throw a truck. Str + athletics.
Leaf Storm
player, 168 posts
Lupus Ahroun
Warrior of Uktena
Mon 9 Nov 2015
at 23:16
  • msg #15

Specializations.

I understand how Tooth and Claw is too broad - and I would agree with you. However, I feel that you are making it too narrow with having it only apply to certain types of claw OR bite attacks, akin to a specialization within the specialization.

When you look at the books, the specialty prompts are general: striking for Brawl for example (VtM reference). This doesn't say only jabs, or only uppercuts, or only elbows. It says striking. Anytime you make a strike attack the specialty applies because your character has become akin to Bruce Lee status at that.

I would argue the same for Tooth and Claw. If I had to pick between the two, I would go with Claw as Razor Claws are one of my gifts. But I would ask that you consider it be extended to any time my PC uses their claws to attack, whether that be in any of the four forms in which I have claws - as he has specialized in using CLAWS.

Of course, you have the final say. But that is my two cents when it comes to specializations.
Lock Jaw
player, 198 posts
I will crush you
*Flex and Kiss bicep's*
Mon 9 Nov 2015
at 23:25
  • msg #16

Specializations.

Hhhhmmmgrrrr ... just so we are on the same page what does the specialization feats of strength i put down count towards in your mind? I thought that would be for things like pick up and throw a truck. Str + athletics.
Luke Robinson
Luke Robinson, 54 posts
Children of Gaia
Homid Galliard
Tue 10 Nov 2015
at 00:59
  • msg #17

Specializations.

I feel like I should comment on this, since I was the one who picked this specialization in the first place and this is something that concerns us all:

Tooth and Claw is one of the fighting styles for werewolves from Werewolf: The Forsaken. It's a martial art specific to werewolves, focusing on the werewolf's natural weapons and fighting as a wolf. Kinda like Kailindo in Werewolf: the Apocalypse, except without the form shifting part. Which I thought was thematically appropriate for Leaf Storm, since he is a Lupus and thus I named his specialization after that.

I really don't think it's too broad, considering that example specializations for Brawling listed are Wrestling, Boxing, Kung Fu, Karate, Kailindo and some others. It would be pretty much the same thing if your character was specialized in Melee weapons and picked Klaives as his specialization.

By your interpretation, said specialization couldn't be Kung Fu or Karate, but something like "Kung Fu Punch", "Palm Strike", "Karate Kick" or rather specific Street Fighter type moves like "Raging Dragon Spin Kick" or "Hadoken". And Melee couldn't specialize in Klaives, but... I dunno, Silver Klaive Slash? I understand that you don't want us to be uber strong, but limiting it like that seems way more boring to me then having Karate as the specialization, since:

1) You would be pushed to use the "Spinning Dragon Kick" as much as you can, in place of normal attacks, even when it wouldn't make sense and would just feel ridiculous and you would be doing pretty much the same thing over and over. You have a lot more opportunities for fun actions with something like Karate.

and

2) I really don't like something like Gripping Bite as a thematic brawling specialization for a character. That seems more on the level of making your Strength specialization "dealing damage" or rather like a specific combat maneuver. Or a Gift. So instead of having your character be a great wolf warrior or a kung fu master, he is now very good at holding things in his mouth, because... he loves to play fetch?

This is just my opinion on this matter. If you have to limit the specialization, then my suggestion is not to do it like this, but instead talk with Leaf Storm and others about how they would envision their fighting style and when would it be appropriate to count it as a specialization. Like, breaking down that door wouldn't be something I would consider appropriate for the specialization, but if he like jumped at the vampire, gripped his shotgun in his teeth and tried to disarm him like that, then that seems awesomely thematic to me. Limit it as appropriate.



That aside, I should probably pick my specializations already.
Leaf Storm
player, 173 posts
Lupus Ahroun
Warrior of Uktena
Tue 10 Nov 2015
at 01:06
  • msg #18

Specializations.

quote:
I really don't think it's too broad, considering that example specializations for Brawling listed are Wrestling, Boxing, Kung Fu, Karate, Kailindo and some others. It would be pretty much the same thing if your character was specialized in Melee weapons and picked Klaives as his specialization.


This is my thoughts exactly. I abhor min-maxers as the point of the game is the roleplay aspect. However, I also have strong feelings about specialties and how I (and apparently you Luke) interpret them.

It is the difference I noted earlier between boxing and simply throwing jabs.

Not to beat a dead horse, but Luke gets me. I see you
Luke Robinson
Luke Robinson, 55 posts
Children of Gaia
Homid Galliard
Tue 10 Nov 2015
at 01:48
  • msg #19

Re: Specializations.

Leaf Storm:
quote:
I really don't think it's too broad, considering that example specializations for Brawling listed are Wrestling, Boxing, Kung Fu, Karate, Kailindo and some others. It would be pretty much the same thing if your character was specialized in Melee weapons and picked Klaives as his specialization.


This is my thoughts exactly. I abhor min-maxers as the point of the game is the roleplay aspect. However, I also have strong feelings about specialties and how I (and apparently you Luke) interpret them.

It is the difference I noted earlier between boxing and simply throwing jabs.

Not to beat a dead horse, but Luke gets me. I see you


Glad we are on the same page here :)
Storyteller
GM, 715 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Tue 10 Nov 2015
at 01:54
  • msg #20

Re: Specializations.

I am one who is happy to compromise we will play it out and see how things fair.  Claws or teeth take your pick.
Leaf Storm
player, 174 posts
Lupus Ahroun
Warrior of Uktena
Tue 10 Nov 2015
at 01:58
  • msg #21

Re: Specializations.

Leaf Storm:
If I had to pick between the two, I would go with Claw as Razor Claws are one of my gifts.



Done did it.
Storyteller
GM, 716 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Tue 10 Nov 2015
at 06:39
  • msg #22

Re: Specializations.

Lockjaw I thought it applies to the willpower check for feats of strength. because if you succeed in the willpower roll you achieve the feat (at least the strength part). And your strength will be bumped up giving you more dice, for any rolls anyway.

quote:
Feats of Strength
Unlike other Attributes, Strength doesn’t usually
require a roll when a character performs some feat with
it. Instead, the chart below measures what a character
within a certain Strength range can normally accomplish.
If your character wants to do something that falls
within his Strength Attribute range, you don’t normally
need to make a roll. (Certain feats, like lifting and throwing
a table during a bar fight, may provide exceptions; in
this case, use Strength + Athletics or possibly Melee.)
To act outside his Strength range, however, you need to
make a Willpower roll, not a Strength roll. Generally, that
roll’s Difficulty is 9, although the Storyteller may raise
or lower it depending on the circumstances. For each
success, your character’s Strength is raised one step, up
to a maximum of five steps, during that turn and perhaps
for the next one as well — essentially for as long as it
takes to achieve that feat.
Botching a Strength feat’s Willpower roll can be
painful. At the Storyteller’s discretion, such botches may
inflict one health level’s worth of lethal damage for every
step of Strength the character had tried, and failed, to
reach. Jape, for example, might attempt to throw a cop’s
motorcycle — a Strength 6 feat. Currently in Homid form
(where she has Strength 3), she tries to push herself until
a botched roll inflicts three lethal health levels of damage
due to muscle strain. This damage cannot be soaked,
and must simply heal; thankfully, werewolves heal fast.

Dice Pool Feats Lift
1 Crush a soda can 40 lbs.
2 Break a chair 100 lbs.
3 Bust down a wooden door 250 lbs.
4 Break a two-by-four 400 lbs.
5 Smash open a metal fire door 650 lbs.
6 Throw a motorcycle 800 lbs.
7 Flip a small car 900 lbs.
8 Snap a lead pipe 1000 lbs.
9 Punch through a cement wall 1200 lbs.
10 Tear open a steel drum 1500 lbs.
11 Punch through 1” of sheet metal 2000 lbs.
12 Snap a streetlight post 3000 lbs.
13 Throw a sedan 4000 lbs.
14 Toss an SUV 5000 lbs.
15 Hurl a pickup truck 6000 lbs.

This message was last edited by the GM at 06:56, Tue 10 Nov 2015.
Ryan Fox
Ryan Fox, 374 posts
Silver Fang
Cliath
Tue 10 Nov 2015
at 06:53
  • msg #23

Re: Specializations.

I think specializations need only fit the 'theme' of the character. Those specializations just shouldn't reference game mechanics. Which is why specializing in 'soak' is silly for a stamina specialization, but specializing in 'endurance' is fine.


It's why Ryan's Charisma specialty is 'silver tongue/howl.' If he's talking, it works. Because his primary point as a character is diplomacy. Whether he's selling ice to an eskimo, leading the garou nation, or even having a political debate with an enemy Ventrue, he's prepared and ready to go.

Lockjaw on the other hand is all about strength. So I wouldn't be surprised if his specialization worked on most everything but damage rolls.
Storyteller
GM, 717 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Tue 10 Nov 2015
at 07:11
  • msg #24

Re: Specializations.

I would like to roll with this for a second...

Ryan, If you were the ST and a player had the specializations

Unbreakable with what roll/rolls would the 10's explode so to speak?

quote:
unbreakable
"adjective"
not liable to break or able to be broken easily.



and

quote:
Silver tongue:
"noun"
A tendency to be eloquent and persuasive in speaking.

Nancy Pride
player, 189 posts
Tue 10 Nov 2015
at 07:19
  • msg #25

Re: Specializations.

Storyteller:
Unbreakable with what roll/rolls would the 10's explode so to speak?
quote:
unbreakable
"adjective"
not liable to break or able to be broken easily.


That sounds like anything that would cause blunt force trauma.  A baseball bat to the face, or getting hit by a truck, maybe getting squashed by something large (e.g. building/tree).

Things like bullets, knives, arrows, etc don't "break" an object, they cut it, so wouldn't apply.
Lock Jaw
player, 201 posts
I will crush you
*Flex and Kiss bicep's*
Tue 10 Nov 2015
at 07:21
  • msg #26

Re: Specializations.

I like that Ryan. So every strength roll.
:)
Ryan Fox
Ryan Fox, 375 posts
Silver Fang
Cliath
Tue 10 Nov 2015
at 07:27
  • msg #27

Re: Specializations.

In my case 'Explodes if you're talking.' 'Does not explode if you can't speak or if talking is irrelevant or you don't speak the language.' All the eloquence in the world doesn't help if the other guy only speaks Spanish and you don't. Because I threw 'Howl' in there as well, he can give voice to his eloquence in Lupus or Hispo forms, but only wolves and Garou care about what he's saying in such forms. (He would need the 'scent of man' gift to include domesticated dogs on that list.)

In Unbreakable's case...I might say soak rolls against bludgeoning damage, that is, attacks that could theoretically break your bones. Slashing only applies if it's liable to cut a limb off. Piercing attacks bypass. It might also resist the damage from failing willpower rolls to lift big objects.
Storyteller
GM, 718 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Tue 10 Nov 2015
at 09:21
  • msg #28

Re: Specializations.

Well I will be discussing this further thanx for the imput thus far. Good night. . Must sleep
Storyteller
GM, 721 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Wed 11 Nov 2015
at 01:39
  • msg #29

Re: Specializations.

Now getting back to this Ryan you will find that silver tounged giving you the bonus as soon as you do anything social is much to broad. Howls are fine because the wolf howls are a little more limited than human communication.

Silver tonged by it's definition should apply to persuasion rolls only. Just because you are eloquent and persuasive doesn't mean you can act, perform well, or that you are diplomatic. You are good at persuading people in a charming manner thus any persuasion roll would come under this.

Again I view this as a fair specialization.
Ryan Fox
Ryan Fox, 378 posts
Silver Fang
Cliath
Wed 11 Nov 2015
at 01:43
  • msg #30

Re: Specializations.

...Uh. How is Ryan not diplomatic? Have you been READING my posts?
Storyteller
GM, 722 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Wed 11 Nov 2015
at 03:26
  • msg #31

Re: Specializations.

LOL... that is not what I am saying .. Silver tongued is not synonymous with being diplomatic you can be uncouth, and not persuasive but still diplomatic.
Ryan Fox
Ryan Fox, 379 posts
Silver Fang
Cliath
Wed 11 Nov 2015
at 03:31
  • msg #32

Re: Specializations.

It is possible to be uncouth and diplomatic...but being persuasive sure makes diplomacy easier, doesn't it?
Storyteller
GM, 723 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Wed 11 Nov 2015
at 03:32
  • msg #33

Re: Specializations.

quote:
diplomatic
adjective
1.
of or concerning diplomacy.

diplomacy

noun

The art of dealing with people in a sensitive and tactful way.

Silver tongued is using charm to be persuasive doesn't mean you need to be sensitive or tactful to the other persons needs of feelings. How they feel might not align with what you are persuading them to do.

Ryan Fox
Ryan Fox, 380 posts
Silver Fang
Cliath
Wed 11 Nov 2015
at 03:36
  • msg #34

Re: Specializations.

You're splitting hairs. An unpersuasive diplomat would never get appointed...or elected...in the first place.
Storyteller
GM, 724 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Wed 11 Nov 2015
at 04:09
  • msg #35

Re: Specializations.

You are probably right but persuasion is but a single weapon in a diplomats arsenal. What I am saying is that if you want a specialty it is exactly that a specialty. Silver tongued will not effect all your social rolls only rolls in which you are trying to persuade someone/something.
Ryan Fox
Ryan Fox, 381 posts
Silver Fang
Cliath
Wed 11 Nov 2015
at 04:17
  • msg #36

Re: Specializations.

...It's already been used on diplomacy.

Ex post facto is a thing.
Storyteller
GM, 726 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Wed 11 Nov 2015
at 04:41
  • msg #37

Re: Specializations.

In reply to Ryan Fox (msg # 36):

It may have been used in the pas, for all sorts of things. I have noticed that I have been running things very incorrectly with regards to some game factors eg Specializations. I have pulled both Lockjaw and Leafstorm into line and am working my way through all the character sheets.

Any rulings or changes will not effect results retrospectively. But due to the number of pack members by making your specialties streamlined. This will increase the diversity within the pack.

As I said earlia I would like specialties to pertain to one "type" of roll. I have been very lenient with your specialty by saying it is to do with persuasion as there is no persuasion roll per say .. It is a social interaction that can be accomplished with different types of rolls based on a situation by situation basis.

Because of this your specialty will still be applied, as long as the intent to persuade is there with the charisma component. E.G. Charisma + Leadership, To persuade a battle pack which target in the war to attack. Charisma + performance to persuade a girl to go home with you. Both would benefit from your specialty.
Storyteller
GM, 727 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Wed 11 Nov 2015
at 04:43
  • msg #38

Re: Specializations.

do you think this is an unfair way of interpreting silver tongued?
Ryan Fox
Ryan Fox, 382 posts
Silver Fang
Cliath
Wed 11 Nov 2015
at 04:47
  • msg #39

Re: Specializations.

Well, it doesn't affect all types of persuasion either. Charisma persuasion is based in sincerity. Manipulate persuasion is based on skulduggery.

It is also worth remembering that Ryan will eventually get a leadership specialty...and there'll probably be a ton of overlap with Charisma's specialty.
Storyteller
GM, 729 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Wed 11 Nov 2015
at 04:55
  • msg #40

Re: Specializations.

In reply to Ryan Fox (msg # 39):

With the amount of dice you get in those sort of rolls and with how much you seem to be able to lower the difficulty scores why worry if I streamline the specialties a little this way everyone can shine at different things within the pack.

As I have said keep to the rules with creation. if there are miss used mechanics (e.g the fang dagger combo shadowclaw is using.), there is very little that I will do as I did say stick to the rules. But specialties is one thing the ST holds a little bit of sway over.

:)
Ryan Fox
Ryan Fox, 383 posts
Silver Fang
Cliath
Wed 11 Nov 2015
at 05:04
  • msg #41

Re: Specializations.

Heh.

Well, at least I've got my dex specialty too.

I do use Graceful for fighting, typically.
Lock Jaw
player, 202 posts
I will crush you
*Flex and Kiss bicep's*
Wed 11 Nov 2015
at 05:39
  • msg #42

Re: Specializations.

Ryan you a sucker for punishment? he seems to be target things we are abusing. So if your using it all the time, like I was with soak. He will probably nerf it some how..

So ST I have 2 Questions..

1. I looked in the book at feats of strength .. Would it be too much to plead that should I have to roll willpower to increase my temporary strength that the specialization also be applied to the accompanying roll if there is one? (I don't know what it affects but I will use my lovable speciality in charisma to plead my case, hoping you take pity and say yes. Because really how often will I be pulling a feat of strength?? Begs with imploring eyes....)

2. If I just threw in a word in Stamina/ or any where else as a speciality e.g. Tough for stamina. Could you just tell me when to apply it not how it works.
Ryan Fox
Ryan Fox, 384 posts
Silver Fang
Cliath
Wed 11 Nov 2015
at 05:46
  • msg #43

Re: Specializations.

Every character in the game has at least one specialty. Perhaps 2, or even 3, if they chose a 4/2/4 format for primary and 2/4/2 for secondary. This is on top of any skill specialties people may have.

As for Ryan's fighting...that's not really his primary focus, so it doesn't stand out much because he generally is NOT point. He is an Ahroun, however, and so must be at least decently good at it.
Storyteller
GM, 732 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Wed 11 Nov 2015
at 07:09
  • msg #44

Re: Specializations.

You know ... I could compromise on that feats of strength lockjaw and you need to think a good abbreviation for it.... ok as both the rolls would be part of the feat I will roll with that.

And I would rather get as many specialities sorted as I can.
Ryan Fox
Ryan Fox, 387 posts
Silver Fang
Cliath
Thu 12 Nov 2015
at 03:04
  • msg #45

Re: Specializations.

Who says I have to tear a throat out?

(re:graceful)

I can bite the vamp anywhere and do agg damage, so it's more a smooth runby bite, of the sort wolves do when bringing down prey. They're quite elegant about it, nature's grace in simplicity.
Storyteller
GM, 745 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Thu 12 Nov 2015
at 03:06
  • msg #46

Re: Specializations.

In reply to Ryan Fox (msg # 45):

sigh....
Storyteller
GM, 747 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Thu 12 Nov 2015
at 03:18
  • msg #47

Re: Specializations.

Streamline it please Ryan.. what rolls will this specialty encompass and please don't say everything... Or would you like to do what LockJaw was thinking about, which is I inform you when it applies.
Ryan Fox
Ryan Fox, 388 posts
Silver Fang
Cliath
Thu 12 Nov 2015
at 03:25
  • msg #48

Re: Specializations.

It is supposed to apply to combat...he's an Ahroun, but not specialized in physical stats or fighting. The specialty is meant to help compensate for the fact Ahroun are supposed to be good. I chose 'graceful' in particular because it implies a certain elegance of movement that you might expect from a guy with charisma 5. Even in wolf form, he's still charisma 5, so his bites will be 'poetry in motion' of sorts.

If graceful isn't the word you'd use for that, tell me what is. :P
Storyteller
GM, 749 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Thu 12 Nov 2015
at 04:02
  • msg #49

Re: Specializations.

quote:
Players should clear any specialties with the
Storyteller, who can veto any specialties that are too broad
(such as “guns” for Firearms or “healing” for Medicine) or
that focus solely on game mechanics (“dealing damage”
for Strength or “soak rolls” for Stamina). The player and
Storyteller should work together to express the character’s
concept through specialties.


I agree that there is a way to be graceful at many things but that doesn't make it a speciality. For example you could be graceful dancing but doesn't mean you will be a graceful fighter.

I always thought this worked in with your charm etc. When it came time to "express yourself" to the lords and elders of the garou, or when it came to a performance check with dancing or fluid movements amongst the high society of the garou. This would be inline with your Kingly aspirations and character concept.

quote:
Specialties represent a particular
focus and proficiency related to the character’s
concept or profession.


Being Ahroun is not synonymous with being highly skilled at combat(thouh it helps), it is a  auspice that leaders normally are. Taking Graceful to boost your combat abilities is:

A. Not really inline with the character concept you have portrayed.
B. Targeting the game mechanics not player concept enhancement.

Furthermore you're a garou. Your combat abilities are far above any normal man. Though not like Leafstorms or Lockjaws, and this doesn't matter as you could easily talk rings around them.

From the beginning you have portrayed yourself as a leader and lover not a fighter. this doesn't mesh for your concept.
Ryan Fox
Ryan Fox, 389 posts
Silver Fang
Cliath
Thu 12 Nov 2015
at 04:12
  • msg #50

Re: Specializations.

...Well, fine.  Yes, the primary concept is 'leader.' I just thought I should be competent at fighting too. It's why Ryan normally carries Boar's +2 Brawl bonus. He can give it up at need though.
Leaf Storm
player, 189 posts
Lupus Ahroun
Warrior of Uktena
Thu 12 Nov 2015
at 04:19
  • msg #51

Re: Specializations.

In reply to Ryan Fox (msg # 50):

Hey, I'll take it. Find a nice home for it. Crush some Vamp skulls between my teeth with it.

To throw my hat into the ring here: I get where ST is coming from. I think it is supremely important to keep the specialties relative to the player's CONCEPT. If something is out of left field, then it is a topic of debate and you two have done just that. Having said that, simply qualifying for a specialty (4 pts/5 pts/6 pts) has already shown that the PC has precedence to get a specialty associated with that skill. The ability is there, but again the fine tuning is where GM/player relation comes into play.

On that same vein, I don't think it is enough or even fair for a GM to go overboard with streamlinging or outright denying players specialties because they feel it is "too powerful." Specialties are one of the more fun aspects of playing the PC as they help provide specific scenes of awesomeness that only that PC could pull off. It is irrelevant that the PC in question may already be rolling 14 dice to succeed, or whatever. Obviously they built that character to be a powerhouse of performance, combat, juggling, whatever, etc etc.

I think ST and Ryan have done a comendable job so far of actually talking this stuff out. Cheers. /rant
Storyteller
GM, 751 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Thu 12 Nov 2015
at 04:49
  • msg #52

Re: Specializations.

Here is another concept for you an example you might say..

Character concept: martial artist.

Puts 4 points dex : takes peternatural grace. Has good brawl too say 4 dots chinese kungfu, but didn't put many points into malee say only 2 dots .. now put a Chinese broadsword in his hand.

As this is a weapon used by martial artists and it falls inline with the concept of the character I would carry through the peternatural grace to his rolls with this weapon. Because
1. The weapon and it's forms are very graceful.
2. It is in line with the concept of the character.

I hope this makes it clearer on how I would like to be applying specialities for this game.. I have only gone down the path of asking and limiting the rolls specialties apply to because they are being missused.
Ryan Fox
Ryan Fox, 392 posts
Silver Fang
Cliath
Thu 12 Nov 2015
at 05:20
  • msg #53

Re: Specializations.

Well, when I get my 4th point of Brawl, I'll probably be glad my Dex specialty doesn't overlap. Because...as it is, no matter what specialty I put on leadership, my charisma specialty will overlap every time, and there's no discernible benefit to being double specialized. That is, there's no rule where 9s explode (as can sometimes happen in Legend of 5 Rings) or 1s are rerolled (also legend of 5 rings)
Storyteller
GM, 752 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Thu 12 Nov 2015
at 05:23
  • msg #54

Re: Specializations.

quote:
It's why Ryan normally carries Boar's +2 Brawl bonus. He can give it up at need though.


Again another reason that there is no need for more combat ability with your character than what you have without the specialty applying to combat. Ryan should keep preternatural grace as your specialty but apply it correctly.

E.g. Ryans Performance is 2. Ones grace and poise in court especially amongst wolves where actions speak louder than words, isn't that fantastic.. But he has preternatural grace and this is where it's benefit should be applied.

Rolls that you wouldn't normally get a bonus for but that suit your concept.
Storyteller
GM, 753 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Thu 12 Nov 2015
at 05:29
  • msg #55

Re: Specializations.

In reply to Storyteller (msg # 54):

What about command with leadership.. Your silver tongue / howls will not overlap with that.

Wen you command someone to do something I really feel that it has nothing to do with persuasion.For persuasion implies you get a choice or at least think you do. Command makes someone do things like it or not.
Storyteller
GM, 918 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Wed 25 Nov 2015
at 22:18
  • msg #56

Thanksgiving

HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL THE AMAZING AMERICAN PLAYERS WE HAVE.
Storyteller
GM, 928 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Fri 27 Nov 2015
at 04:44
  • msg #57

Re: Specializations.


I hope you don't mind Lockjaw But I wanted to share these with everybody, this took a lot of back and forth negotiation between us, but the results were very clear and these make perfect examples of what I am wanting in this game for specialisations. They are specific in what they effect all are limited and none too broad. This is what I am hoping to get with everyone's specialisations.

quote:
Powerful: 10's count as 2 successes on rolls made for feats of strength
Lower Body: 10's count as 2 successes on rolls required for Jumping
High Tolerance: 10's count as 2 successes when rolling to soak silver
Tireless: 10's count as 2 successes when rolling physical endurance tests
Likeable: 10's count as 2 successes on social rolls with friends and allies
Hardened Gaze: 10's count as 2 successes with Facedown rolls
Uncanny Instincts: 10's count as 2 successes with sense rolls

Storyteller
GM, 1031 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Sun 20 Dec 2015
at 06:41
  • msg #58

Holidays and posting

As it is Christmas and I am moving early in the new year I am going to be really flexible on the posting rule. I don't know how often I will be posting in the new year as my phone is getting taken away ( it is a company phone and I have to give it back) so any games I am running may slow down some. Sorry but things will be unpredictable until we complete our move and my internet is switched over. This will be all sorted by the 20th of January. I will post as much as I can until then but I can't guarantee my usual high volume of posts and quick responses.
Storyteller
GM, 1046 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Thu 24 Dec 2015
at 19:43
  • msg #59

Xmas

MARY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!
Storyteller
GM, 1058 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Thu 31 Dec 2015
at 12:32
  • msg #60

Xmas

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE
Sean Selmetzi
player, 401 posts
homid, philodox stargazer
Thu 31 Dec 2015
at 16:49
  • msg #61

new year

Yeah happy new year everyone
Storyteller
GM, 1215 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Tue 12 Apr 2016
at 21:33
  • msg #62

Multiple actions

Actions: I apologise if I gage lead you astray..

When burning blood or rage for extra actions these must all be stated at the start of the round and can only be changed as per the change action rules... I have realised that I have made an error in my interpretation of the rules by waiting until after the first action for you to state your second. By doing so it is like you can see the future.
Storyteller
GM, 1409 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Mon 22 Aug 2016
at 07:42
  • msg #63

Rules Errata

In reply to Storyteller (msg # 3):

I am re-canting the house ruling of reducing the diff to soak silver from 8 to 6 as I believe the one character with it is gaining an un fair advantage....

Lock jaw if you have an issue with this pm me and we will re visit your merits..
Lock Jaw
player, 367 posts
I will crush you
*Flex and Kiss bicep's*
Mon 22 Aug 2016
at 08:01
  • msg #64

Rules Errata

In reply to Storyteller (msg # 63):

quote:
I am re-canting the house ruling of reducing the diff to soak silver from 8 to 6 as I believe the one character with it is gaining an un fair advantage....


:o

:(
Nancy Pride
player, 383 posts
Mon 22 Aug 2016
at 08:54
  • msg #65

Rules Errata

If it helps, I'm more than happy to have LJ continue to soak up all that silver for us in an easier to deal with fashion.  :D

Assuming you mean an unfair advantage over the rest of his packmates.. >.>
Storyteller
GM, 1410 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Mon 22 Aug 2016
at 10:00
  • msg #66

Rules Errata

In reply to Nancy Pride (msg # 65):

It is hard to get through him to you I have been speaking to him regarding that soon it may be easier..
Nancy Pride
player, 384 posts
Mon 22 Aug 2016
at 10:09
  • msg #67

Rules Errata

(ಥ╭╮ಥ)
Storyteller
GM, 1411 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Mon 22 Aug 2016
at 10:24
  • msg #68

Rules Errata

In reply to Nancy Pride (msg # 67):

I made an allowance at the beginning without realising all the thought that went into the balancing of that merit. Now I see why it was nerfed each edition and as soon as I changed it back Lock jaw asked to change the merit to one that that better suits his background anyway(HHHhhhhmmm suspect maybe a little over powered). This change has been done with a little negotiating so he is still a good meat shield for you Nancy.
Storyteller
GM, 1559 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Tue 4 Oct 2016
at 20:34
  • msg #69

Training

If a spirit a spirit teaches you a Gift it is instant. Therefore as spirit speech can be taught by any spirit you could ask the totem to teach you this gift otherwise you need to find the type of spirit as per the gift. Others can train you but this takes a lunar month per level of the gift. Chimmage will need to be paid to any spirit for the gift. With skills and attributes these can be increased one dot per story and as many as you like in between stories during down time with training at a rate of one week per skill dot you currently have and 1 month per attribute dot you currently have. This time can be reduced with a Trainer/Mentor, getting the results you want quicker. Learnig Rites and Gifts are outlined in the book.

E.g. So Lock jaw has increased his dexterity this story from 1-2. After the story if he has the experience he could spend 2 months practicing pahkor in central park to raise his dexterity from 2 to 3.

This is the fairest way I could think of .. I added the training option, as long as you have the experience. This allows you all to improve during the story and I guarantee I will put enough down time between stories for everyone to use all their experience.

quote:
Spending Experience Points
Experience points are spent to increase Traits (most of
them, at least; see below). The chart in the sidebar shows
the various costs for each kind of Trait. Most costs are based
on the Trait’s current rating multiplied by a particular
number. If, for example, a player wanted to increase her
Politics from 3 to 4, it would cost six points, whereas a
Level Four tribe Gift would cost 12. If the player wants to
gain a new Ability the character doesn’t currently possess,
she pays three points to get the first dot. Traits can only
be raised by one dot per story.

EXPERIENCE CHART
Trait                                       Cost
Attribute                                 current rating x 4
Ability                                     current rating x 2
New Ability                              3
Gift                                        Level of Gift x 3
Gift from other breed/auspice/tribe Level of Gift x 5
Rage                                       current rating
Gnosis                                     current rating x 2
Willpower                                 current rating

This message was last edited by the GM at 21:56, Tue 04 Oct 2016.
Storyteller
GM, 1560 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Tue 4 Oct 2016
at 21:53
  • msg #70

Training

I am always willing to make special considerations of course.

Anyone have any opinions on this?
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:57, Tue 04 Oct 2016.
Nancy Pride
player, 450 posts
Tue 4 Oct 2016
at 22:57
  • msg #71

Training

The only thing to consider, and I'm not saying it should go one way or the other, is that a lot of these things are in consideration of table play in terms of passage of time.

So "It'll take you two weeks in game to accomplish X", where as in this format two weeks might take two years of real time to pass, which might as well mean it'll never happen.

The first post of the current IC day was made on Thu 22 Oct 2015, so, almost a full year ago and it hasn't even passed yet.

I don't know how you're planning on structuring "stories" and the quantities of downtime between them, but it's worth considering advancement and pacing not only in terms of in game passage of time, but out of game as well.
Storyteller
GM, 1562 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Wed 5 Oct 2016
at 00:35
  • msg #72

Training

In reply to Nancy Pride (msg # 71):

This is why I am giving training time. On line you would receive more XP because i am giving it out more frequently in game time than you would receive it on the table top. Where you would have received one set of exp for all that we have done so far being that group of good players would do all this in a day over the table top I have given out triple the xp, Though some would disagree with me. So at the end of this war I will allow you to burn up all your EXp points and start the next story from the end of the time it takes to do that. To me it is all about In character time this war is a week long you get the experience now but how are you to learn 5 dots in rituals in a week?
Storyteller
GM, 1563 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Wed 5 Oct 2016
at 01:37
  • msg #73

Training

You do make a valid point Nacy how can we approach this to give the players the feeling they are advancing and still remain true to in character advancement vs in character time.

(wish i could finish my engineering degree in a week.. oh i can it is called the university of guam online.)
Nancy Pride
player, 452 posts
Wed 5 Oct 2016
at 02:03
  • msg #74

Training

I think what you have now is a start.  Since we haven't experienced the end of a story yet, or a period of downtime, it would be difficult to say if using that sort of pacing mechanism is going to give the right feel or not.

I simply thought I would bring up the issue in case others might have specific thoughts on the subject, as generally in PbP games, that time dilation effect is what can really cause things to feel "bogged down" for players who are shooting for certain character goals.
Storyteller
GM, 1564 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Wed 5 Oct 2016
at 03:38
  • msg #75

Training

In reply to Nancy Pride (msg # 74):

Basically my plan is to dish out a big bunch of exp over the course of the war if you want one dot here or there go ahead. If you are using your skill allot then I may agree to improving a trait by 2 dots, E.G. your Gnosis all the interaction with the totem and you donating so much exp has increased your spiritual bond by 2 dots not one. If you can find a spirit then you can learn gifts instantly. You all know where one sept is that has a theurge. Learning the Rite Summon Spirit takes time as per the learning rites rules. There is the boar spirit and  I have already pointed out other spirits that dwell here in the garden. For the other spirits than the boar need someone who can talk to spirits to act on your behalf.
This message was last edited by the GM at 04:02, Wed 05 Oct 2016.
Storyteller
GM, 1616 posts
Harbinger of Doom
Keeper of the Prophacy
Mon 17 Oct 2016
at 06:21
  • msg #76

Training

With 2 votes and one abstain following has been clarified:

quote:
Walking Between Worlds
Some supernatural creatures, including werewolves,
have learned methods of crossing the Gauntlet from the
physical world into the Umbra. All Garou have this Gaiagiven
ability — it’s their birthright, their legacy, and an
intuitive ability they inherit from the time of their First
Change. However, most werewolves are unaware of this
talent, and they usually don’t attempt it until an elder
shows them the way. Garou call this practice “stepping
sideways.”
Traveling through places where the Gauntlet is thick
is virtually impossible; crossing over where the Gauntlet
is thin comes as naturally as controlling one’s breathing.
Spiritualists can learn more exotic methods of crossing
this barrier, such as circumventing the Gauntlet entirely
by traveling to the spirit world in dreams. Mages and
other willworkers have their own methods for crossing
the Gauntlet; in fact, packs of werewolves may encounter
such visionaries on their travels.
System: To step sideways, a werewolf needs to meditate
on a highly reflective surface, such as a clear pool of
water or a mirror. When a character attempts this, roll
that character’s Gnosis; the difficulty is the strength of
the local Gauntlet. The Gauntlet is strongest near certain
types of environments; every place on Earth has a Gauntlet
rating between 2 and 9.
Gauntlet Chart
Area Difficulty Rating
Science lab 9
Inner city, downtown 8
Average city street 7
Rural countryside 6
Deep wilderness 5
Urban caern 5
Active caern 4
Powerful caern 3
Greatest caerns 2
Some shapeshifters cannot attempt this or have different
methods for crossing the Gauntlet. The time it takes
to enter the Umbra depends on the number of successes
on this Gnosis roll.
Successes Shift Time
Botch “Caught”
0 Failure (wait another hour before
trying again)
One 5 minutes
Two 30 seconds
Three+ Instantly
If the roll is botched, the werewolf is “caught” in the
Gauntlet, temporarily suspended between the mundane
Realm and the Umbra. He’s held in a web the Weaver
has woven until assisted by another Garou. Half of him
is spiritual, and half is physical. While trapped, he’s subjected
to soul-shattering visions. Although the werewolf
cannot be seen or attacked by physical entities (like
human beings), evil spirits wander the Gauntlet looking
for trapped and vulnerable travelers. Another werewolf
can attempt to free the traveler by making a successful
roll to step sideways; otherwise, the Garou must wait in
his shameful, dishonorable, and dangerous state for an
hour before trying again. If that second roll botches, he
cannot leave on his own. Until he’s rescued, he’s trapped
there forever.
Garou who have learned the Theurge Gift: Pulse of
the Invisible don’t need to use a reflective object when
stepping sideways; they can enter at will. Even blind
werewolves can enter the Umbra, as long as they know
that Gift. (At the Storyteller’s discretion, carrying your
own reflective object may make stepping sideways slightly
more difficult, since the object isn’t “anchored” to its
surroundings; in these cases, increase the difficulty by 1.)
Werewolves in a pack may choose one among them
to lead them into the Umbra; that individual makes the
Gnosis roll for all of them. (It’s usually the werewolf
with the highest Gnosis, who may in this instance act as
the temporary alpha of the pack.) If the pack is caught,
however, the shapechangers can make their second attempts
as individuals. Usually, the roll succeeds; all the
pack’s members arrive at the same time. All of the pack
members must be capable of stepping sideways, and they
must all be willing. Garou (or other shapechangers) who
are not part of the pack cannot travel with them; they
must travel through on their own. However, Garou with
the Theurge Gift: Grasp the Beyond can take non-Garou
with them into the Umbra.


When Crossing over if your roll means you will take time to transition (1 or 2 successes) this is spent in meditation as you focus on the reflective surface aligning yourself with the next world before crossing. At the end of that time you cross the gauntlet instantly. A botch instantly traps you in the gauntlet between worlds.

Should you be in a situation such as combat you have the option to change your action as per the change action rules, but you will not be able to attempt another crossing until the time it would have taken for you to cross has elapsed. This doesn't prevent someone else taking you across.

For example Nancy is in combat and wants to jump into the umbra. She rolls one success meaning it will take 5 minutes of meditation to focus her self enough to cross. As she is about to be attacked she aborts the crossing to defender her self (as per the aborting to defensive action rules in combat). After which she will be unable to attempt another crossing for 5 minutes. Leaf-storm in the following round choses to lead Nancy through to the umbra, and rolls 3 successes. The transition is instant and Nancy is able to transition with leaf-storm to the umbra the following round.

Is this clear?
This message was last edited by the GM at 06:23, Mon 17 Oct 2016.
Sign In