In my case 'Explodes if you're talking.' 'Does not explode if you can't speak or if talking is irrelevant or you don't speak the language.' All the eloquence in the world doesn't help if the other guy only speaks Spanish and you don't. Because I threw 'Howl' in there as well, he can give voice to his eloquence in Lupus or Hispo forms, but only wolves and Garou care about what he's saying in such forms. (He would need the 'scent of man' gift to include domesticated dogs on that list.)

In Unbreakable's case...I might say soak rolls against bludgeoning damage, that is, attacks that could theoretically break your bones. Slashing only applies if it's liable to cut a limb off. Piercing attacks bypass. It might also resist the damage from failing willpower rolls to lift big objects.

Well I will be discussing this further thanx for the imput thus far. Good night. . Must sleep

Now getting back to this Ryan you will find that silver tounged giving you the bonus as soon as you do anything social is much to broad. Howls are fine because the wolf howls are a little more limited than human communication.

Silver tonged by it's definition should apply to persuasion rolls only. Just because you are eloquent and persuasive doesn't mean you can act, perform well, or that you are diplomatic. You are good at persuading people in a charming manner thus any persuasion roll would come under this.

Again I view this as a fair specialization.

...Uh. How is Ryan not diplomatic? Have you been READING my posts?

LOL... that is not what I am saying .. Silver tongued is not synonymous with being diplomatic you can be uncouth, and not persuasive but still diplomatic.

It is possible to be uncouth and diplomatic...but being persuasive sure makes diplomacy easier, doesn't it?

You're splitting hairs. An unpersuasive diplomat would never get appointed...or elected...in the first place.

You are probably right but persuasion is but a single weapon in a diplomats arsenal. What I am saying is that if you want a specialty it is exactly that a specialty. Silver tongued will not effect all your social rolls only rolls in which you are trying to persuade someone/something.

...It's already been used on diplomacy.

Ex post facto is a thing.

In reply to Ryan Fox (msg # 36):

It may have been used in the pas, for all sorts of things. I have noticed that I have been running things very incorrectly with regards to some game factors eg Specializations. I have pulled both Lockjaw and Leafstorm into line and am working my way through all the character sheets.

Any rulings or changes will not effect results retrospectively. But due to the number of pack members by making your specialties streamlined. This will increase the diversity within the pack.

As I said earlia I would like specialties to pertain to one "type" of roll. I have been very lenient with your specialty by saying it is to do with persuasion as there is no persuasion roll per say .. It is a social interaction that can be accomplished with different types of rolls based on a situation by situation basis.

Because of this your specialty will still be applied, as long as the intent to persuade is there with the charisma component. E.G. Charisma + Leadership, To persuade a battle pack which target in the war to attack. Charisma + performance to persuade a girl to go home with you. Both would benefit from your specialty.

do you think this is an unfair way of interpreting silver tongued?

Well, it doesn't affect all types of persuasion either. Charisma persuasion is based in sincerity. Manipulate persuasion is based on skulduggery.

It is also worth remembering that Ryan will eventually get a leadership specialty...and there'll probably be a ton of overlap with Charisma's specialty.

In reply to Ryan Fox (msg # 39):

With the amount of dice you get in those sort of rolls and with how much you seem to be able to lower the difficulty scores why worry if I streamline the specialties a little this way everyone can shine at different things within the pack.

As I have said keep to the rules with creation. if there are miss used mechanics (e.g the fang dagger combo shadowclaw is using.), there is very little that I will do as I did say stick to the rules. But specialties is one thing the ST holds a little bit of sway over.

:)

Heh.

Well, at least I've got my dex specialty too.

I do use Graceful for fighting, typically.

Ryan you a sucker for punishment? he seems to be target things we are abusing. So if your using it all the time, like I was with soak. He will probably nerf it some how..

So ST I have 2 Questions..

1. I looked in the book at feats of strength .. Would it be too much to plead that should I have to roll willpower to increase my temporary strength that the specialization also be applied to the accompanying roll if there is one? (I don't know what it affects but I will use my lovable speciality in charisma to plead my case, hoping you take pity and say yes. Because really how often will I be pulling a feat of strength?? Begs with imploring eyes....)

2. If I just threw in a word in Stamina/ or any where else as a speciality e.g. Tough for stamina. Could you just tell me when to apply it not how it works.

Every character in the game has at least one specialty. Perhaps 2, or even 3, if they chose a 4/2/4 format for primary and 2/4/2 for secondary. This is on top of any skill specialties people may have.

As for Ryan's fighting...that's not really his primary focus, so it doesn't stand out much because he generally is NOT point. He is an Ahroun, however, and so must be at least decently good at it.

You know ... I could compromise on that feats of strength lockjaw and you need to think a good abbreviation for it.... ok as both the rolls would be part of the feat I will roll with that.

And I would rather get as many specialities sorted as I can.

Who says I have to tear a throat out?

(re:graceful)

I can bite the vamp anywhere and do agg damage, so it's more a smooth runby bite, of the sort wolves do when bringing down prey. They're quite elegant about it, nature's grace in simplicity.

In reply to Ryan Fox (msg # 45):

sigh....

Streamline it please Ryan.. what rolls will this specialty encompass and please don't say everything... Or would you like to do what LockJaw was thinking about, which is I inform you when it applies.

It is supposed to apply to combat...he's an Ahroun, but not specialized in physical stats or fighting. The specialty is meant to help compensate for the fact Ahroun are supposed to be good. I chose 'graceful' in particular because it implies a certain elegance of movement that you might expect from a guy with charisma 5. Even in wolf form, he's still charisma 5, so his bites will be 'poetry in motion' of sorts.

If graceful isn't the word you'd use for that, tell me what is. :P

I agree that there is a way to be graceful at many things but that doesn't make it a speciality. For example you could be graceful dancing but doesn't mean you will be a graceful fighter.

I always thought this worked in with your charm etc. When it came time to "express yourself" to the lords and elders of the garou, or when it came to a performance check with dancing or fluid movements amongst the high society of the garou. This would be inline with your Kingly aspirations and character concept.



Being Ahroun is not synonymous with being highly skilled at combat(thouh it helps), it is a  auspice that leaders normally are. Taking Graceful to boost your combat abilities is:

A. Not really inline with the character concept you have portrayed.
B. Targeting the game mechanics not player concept enhancement.

Furthermore you're a garou. Your combat abilities are far above any normal man. Though not like Leafstorms or Lockjaws, and this doesn't matter as you could easily talk rings around them.

From the beginning you have portrayed yourself as a leader and lover not a fighter. this doesn't mesh for your concept.

...Well, fine.  Yes, the primary concept is 'leader.' I just thought I should be competent at fighting too. It's why Ryan normally carries Boar's +2 Brawl bonus. He can give it up at need though.

In reply to Ryan Fox (msg # 50):

Hey, I'll take it. Find a nice home for it. Crush some Vamp skulls between my teeth with it.

To throw my hat into the ring here: I get where ST is coming from. I think it is supremely important to keep the specialties relative to the player's CONCEPT. If something is out of left field, then it is a topic of debate and you two have done just that. Having said that, simply qualifying for a specialty (4 pts/5 pts/6 pts) has already shown that the PC has precedence to get a specialty associated with that skill. The ability is there, but again the fine tuning is where GM/player relation comes into play.

On that same vein, I don't think it is enough or even fair for a GM to go overboard with streamlinging or outright denying players specialties because they feel it is "too powerful." Specialties are one of the more fun aspects of playing the PC as they help provide specific scenes of awesomeness that only that PC could pull off. It is irrelevant that the PC in question may already be rolling 14 dice to succeed, or whatever. Obviously they built that character to be a powerhouse of performance, combat, juggling, whatever, etc etc.

I think ST and Ryan have done a comendable job so far of actually talking this stuff out. Cheers. /rant