This is a place to discuss the game rules and mechanics.


As I've pointed out to several players in PMs, there are a number of 'problems' with the rules, either things that don't make any sense, contradictory rules, things poorly explained or simply not explained at all.


In the first category, everyone in the military who is an officer is supposed to start out as a major.

Huh? How does that make any sense? It'd be pretty stupid if all four members of a team were majors. If you look at the composition of the other SG teams, they aren't all majors. On the other hand, though, they are NPCs.

So we're not using that rule.


Another thing, when the listed the pay grades, they only deal with the Air Force. Would it really have been that much extra effort to list the titles for the other branches?

It leads me to believe that if someone was recruited from another branch, they had to actually transfer into the Air Force. I'm not really how the chain of command would work across branches, so that does seem to make sense to me.

However, they list two ranks for enlisted airmen, but skip over Sergeant. Seems bizarre to me.


The other problem I had with the pay grades was when it comes to the non-humans. It generally says they can be paid as officers or enlisted, but then they don't quite deal with it in the pay grade area. There is simply no provision for paying someone as if they are an E5 or an O5... unless they are in the military! They can get paid the equivalent money, but that would be as a G4 (government 'employee').


I don't know. Maybe I'm knitpicking, but I just found it annoyingly confusing.


In case you were wondering, this all came about as I was going over Gear Picks and Resource Points. Both are affected by rank, but rather than just make it equal to your rank (way too simple!), you have to wade through it and see what each rank gets. I found that too much of a pain, so I'm just making the rank bonus equal to your rank.

That being said, I just got done going over everyone's Pay Grade, Gear Picks and Resource Points and updating them. If you see any problems, just holler!


Additionally, I added Action Dice to everyone's sheet right under 'Favored Class'.

The interpretation is, obviously, up to you, but here is some information from an actual military perspective...

First off, the air force doesn't have a flat sergeant rank,  they go from senior airman to staff sergeant.  As for having everyone join the air force...  Well that is actually one way they might do it.  More likely they would use a model more like special forces where everyone is just assigned to an ad hoc unit.  Marines remain marines, army remains army, navy nave and airforce are still just Airedales.  They just work together with whoever has the highest rank being in command.  Different rank names don't really mean anything unless you're an army captain calling a navy depot...

As for the major thing... Yeah totally agree.  Actually that was one of my pet peaves in the series.  They wear first off very officer centric and their ranks were way inflated.  That said, for a special project like SgC ranks might be higher than average and, with more specialists, officers might be more common as well.  There are mechanisms in place for determining who is command among people of equal rank(time of service) but that is a bit out there.

Lastly, I looked at my character sheet...  I'm not sure you get gear or resources equal to your rank.  Some ranks have specifically listed bonuses.

Of course this made me get to thinking about army rank... Eddie dean is just a sergeant not a staff sergeant.  Damn airforce inflating ranks!

That was the other thing: all enlisted military were supposed to start out as Staff Sergeants, but with skipping over Sergeant, that was rather silly.

Like I said.  The airforce doesn't have a sergeant.  An e5 is a sergeant in the army and marines, staff sergeant in the airforce, and a petty officer second class in the navy.  Same pay grade, technically the same level of responsibility, but different titles.

If you really want to blow your mind you should look at how the military actually pays people...  Rank, time in service, hazard pay, language pay...

Do these help

http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp
http://usmilitary.about.com/od...room/l/blenlrank.htm

No wonder I'm confused! They changed it when I wasn't looking!

When I was in the Air Force, back during the Revolutionary War (we flew balloons), they had Sergeant ranks. I know, 'cause I was one! They also had First Sergeants, but apparently now they don't.


For Eddie, it gets back to what I was saying above, though: did he have to transfer to the Air Force?

Okay, I just looked at the list of teams in the book and they have Sergeants listed (other than in the Marine units), so, no, everyone doesn't have to transfer to the Air Force, but they sure do make it hard to determine.

The rule about starting at Major/Staff Sergeant/Grade 3 only applies to PCs, who are assumed to already be experienced and capable. The SGC can recruit the best. The lower ranks/paygrades are only for NPCs and demoted PCs. That's in the Rank section on page 282.

I assume the ranks are Air Force because the SGC is Air Force, so the book always default to that. I assume it would be possible to lay equivalent ranks from other branches of the US military or militaries of different countries over the seven rank levels. The pay and belongings system should be relatively coarse.

I assumed that us off-worlders and aliens are not exactly paid as normal but granted an allowance equivalent to the stated pay and possessions. So, Hilda just lives here while SGC flunkeys organise stuff she needs: clothes, essentials, entertainment, spending money, transport (car and driver) if she's allowed out, a rented stable for her horse, and so on. Maybe even a trip to Disneyland? (Oh, let's!) Later, they might organise an apartment for her. We've seen Teal'c eventually allowed to live off base with possessions and things, and SGU showed that visitors to Earth (from the Destiny) have a lot of people organising stuff for them wherever they go. If Hilda returns to her homeworld or leaves for some other world, she could cash her US dollars in for raw silver, gold, or gems, or some interstellar currency.

But then, I know more about Starfleet than any Earth military. :)

So, the extra gear picks and resource points you added to our sheets are a house-ruled bonus? I could get more stuff if so, and might not need the custom bundles.
This message was last edited by the player at 13:38, Sun 01 Dec 2013.

In reply to Hilda (msg # 8):
Correct ranks for the military folks are easy enough.  An e-5 is an e-5 on the charts you just have to look up what one is in the militry(some flavor of sergeant).

An interesting thing to consider in the future is that the NCOs may wt some point in the future be commissioned or go the warrant officer route.  Perhaps a feat or just as a prestige class or something...

*blinks* For the record.  I'm as clueless OOC as I am IC about this stuff :-) Please excuse my ignorance :-)

I'm an officer so it was a little easier.

I was thinking more along the lines of languages and skills :-) We'd have been selected so our skills don't overlap 'that much' and to make sure we cover all the bases.  At least, I think we would have?

Yeah, the Gear Picks and Resource Points I added to your character sheet is a 'house rule'. Resource points probably aren't going to come into play that often.

This might be a good thread to have a link to in the character creation thread.

And as a notice.

I know it answered several questions if I had read it earlier.


One of my old GMs have a thread in the Notice area "READ ME FIRST" to try and collect all the information regarding the game in one place to easily find.

I always got a laugh when I saw it.

Good point. If there's enough material that warrants that, we'll consider it.

Meanwhile, I added this to Character Generation Rules thread, but I'm repeating it here.

EDUCATION and INSPIRATION
     Education: This is a general knowledge check. If you want to know something that's out of your skill set, this is the way to do it. You make an Education check, which is a d20 roll plus your Education modifier.
          Education modifier = Int Mod + Level.
     Inspiration: Whenever you are on a mission, and run into a situation where you don't know what to do next, you can spend an Action Die to make an Inspiration check. There is no set DC as this always succeeds, but the higher you roll, the more detailed your inpiration will be. An Inspiration check is a d20 roll plus your Inspiration modifier.
          Inspiration modifier = Wis Mod + Level.

I think I've adjusted everyone's character sheet accordingly, but there were some amusing entries.

I have made use of things like education/inspiration checks in the past so I thought I would offer a suggestion.

With the current setup, even without a DC benchmark, the target numbers will be substantially higher than those you would expect to need for regular skill use or the system would quickly make even having skills meaningless.

In order to be able to use the same range of results as skills as things progress I would suggest changing the algorithm to use half level rounded down rather than full level.  So Mod + 1/2 level on both of them.

In theory as this is a house rule and clearly intended for a 'best guess' kind of thing it will have no effect on the game play but it will keep the numbers from looking odd later on.

First of all, Inspiration has no DC per se, but works something like this: if the check is less than 10, you get a hint. 10-15 = more of a hint, 16-20 = clue, 21+ major clue or even something happens to change the situation.


Education checks do have DCs, and might have a higher DC than a regular skill, but they are intended for use in areas where you don't have any ranks in a skill. We've dealt with this in SF games for years. You can say you are a stamp collector without having any ranks in Hobby (stamp-collecting), so the Education check is used for bits of knowledge you might have about stamps.

Another use would be identifying a particular weapon or its design flaws, etc. There is no weapon skill, so Education check would apply to that.


By the time a character is 10th level, his Education could still only be +14 (with a high Intelligence), but his knowledge of weapons will have increased, so I don't think that's unreasonable.

Just a general request: the system is dense and confusing enough, so I'd rather not see too many house-rules put on it at this stage.

Please, use the following layout when posting.

• OOC message should be in Orange and start with "OOC :"
• When your character is thinking, use italics.

I'm guessing that most of us don't have a problem understanding what's written, especially in context, but there are always a few times when one of us is sleep-deprived such that what we think we are saying isn't what we actually type. Plus, fingers sometimes have a mind of their own!

All this does is keep things consistent. It's not like we're going to throw you out of the game if you don't comply, but we may take away your Fluffy! It just makes the posts easier to read.

Thanks.

I usually do put thoughts in italics-- for some reason I didn't on that post.  Sorry.

Ok.  I'm a diplomat... and a Point-woman.  How many feats do I get at level 1? *confused*

Another question - if I have the diplomat bonus (threat range increased to 19-20) and the Persuasive feat, I assume they don't stack?

*cries* Ok.  I officially give up.  I think my 'personal' gear is going to consist of a compact, some lip closs, eye liner, a hair brush, some perfume... and maybe a few other bits and pieces.   For some reason the gear list just didn't have what I wanted!  I figure you guys can pack the stuff for me, right?

FOR SARAH

Beyond your Specialty abilities and your Class abilities, you get two feats at 1st level: 1 for your Human bonus and 1 for your standard 1st level feat. You chose Trustworthy and Linguistics. (?)


Yes, your Diplomat bonus to threat range stacks with the Persuasive feat.


As for the gear, the list in the book was never intended to be comprehensive... they'd have had to list the entire inventory for at least 50 big box stores! You can pull gear from Spycraft, d20 Modern or any similar game to add to your character sheet as part of your Personal bundle. If you want a bicycle, add it. Heck, if you want a unicycle, add it!

You can be as generic or specific as you want. (Looks like you figured that out, based on what's on your character sheet now!)

I spent ages on it!  I don't think I put as much effort into my degrees! :-)

Thanks for the other clarifications though!  Also, do we not get a pistol as part of the basic gear set? (I may have missed it, I just don't see me waving around a rifle all that often!)   In fact... giving me a zat might be 'safer' ;-)
This message was last edited by the player at 21:51, Mon 09 Dec 2013.

I will have to seriously consider that Unicycle option for the next mission, although I doubt I will ever find a road again, perhaps one build to be used like a mountain bike.  Or perhaps I will pull one out of the pile of gear on FRED at some inopportune moment.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:58, Mon 09 Dec 2013.

I was thinking a sidearm would be issue as well, as a 'back-up' weapon. I'm not sure it was issued in the beginning. It might get issued to those not willing to use the submachine gun.

I have to admit that as Fox I was going to request the following as Fire arms
the P90 and the FN Five-seven Both fitted with silencers and AIM dot sights
Pistol with two x 20rd mags

"...FN P90 with standard shoulder sling and 60 rounds of 5.7x28mm FMJ..."

FMJ! FMJ!!  Full Metal Jacket!!  That's just a copper-covered lead slug!  Screw that!  I want steel-core, teflon jacketed armor piercers!!  Those friggin Jaffa wear metal-plated armor for Via's sake!

^_^

And yes, I am a Gunhead ^_^

Y'know, that makes me think (usually a dangerous activity)...
I don't think I ever saw anyone on the show use a Desert Eagle.  Automatic shotguns with drum magazines, yes.  But 50-calibre hand cannons, no. ^_^

 True but the Round does not seem to need it. Take a look at it. It has some very interesting characteristics.
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:33, Thu 12 Dec 2013.

It is worth pointing out that the Armor Piercing qualities of the FN-5.7 weapons, the sidearm and P90, stacks with the quality of the ammunition, so putting what the book calls AP rounds into a P90 is still a very effective choice against the heavily armored Jaffa.

The .50 caliber pistol on the other hand does not technically have an AP function, although it's average damage (disregarding its exceptionally higher probability of attaining this average) improvement over the FN-5.7 weapons more than makes up for this slight oversight, even without AP rounds.  The .50 caliber rifle has an even wider margin of improvement while retaining the AP function of the FN-5.7 although a slightly higher probability for variance away from the average.

I wanted an Intar... but it was deemed too dangerous for me :-)

In the show they had back up 9mm pistols and those not qualified, Dr Jackson, for the MP5 or M16 only had the pistols till they started using Zats.

If memory serves.

I think that was more for 'convenience' as I do recall seeing Daniel with the P90 when show needed it *chuckle*  But yes, he mostly only has a pistol.

I still think an Intar would make more sense!

Yor right on the side arms and Jackson having just the pistol.  He eventually starts dual weilding pistols. He must have been riffle or smg certified by that point though.

Yeah, that was the argument I made. But I was going from memory, too. I suspect the premise they were using was that the P90 was a lot easier to use, so even with minimal training, Jackson could use it without endangering his teammates.

The P90 comes with its own companion sidearm, which is the FN FiveseveN, because it uses the same ammo. The US went to the P90 because the ammo had superior ability to pierce armor, even without the AP stack.

In reply to StarMaster (msg # 38):

Thought this might be of interest to some people
http://world.guns.ru/smg/be/fn-p90-e.html


Resulting weapon appeared in around 1990 as FN P90 personal defense weapon, along with improved 5,7x28 SS190 ammunition, which replaced polymer-cored bullets with heavier dual-core (steel / aluminum) bullets with better penetration against body armor. Several other types of ammunition were developed for this weapon, including tracer, subsonic ball and soft-core training ball.

In around 1995 FN supplemented the P90 with pistol, firing the same 5,7x28 ammunition, designated as FN Five-seveN. Recently, FN also introduced a civilian version of P90, designated as PS90 carbine. This is a self-loading weapon with longer barrel (408 mm / 16").

FN P90 personal defense weapon is blowback operated, selective-fired weapon which fires from closed bolt. The firing is controlled by a removable trigger unit with conventional hammer. A manual safety is located directly below the trigger. Magazine lies at the top of the weapon, feeding from front-to-back, with spiral ramp built into the "rear" part of the magazine. Spent cartridges are ejected straight down through the chute, which exits just behind the pistol grip. The standard sighting equipment includes a non-magnifying collimating sight with "ring and dot" illuminated aiming reticule. Back-up open sights are provided at either side of the primary collimating sight. The so-called P90 USG version is provided with two additional Picatinny rails at either side of the collimating sight base; FN also offers a version with no standard sighting equipment; user has to make its own choice of day and/or night sights and additional equipment, which can be installed on three Picatinny rails - top, left and right. This version is designated as P90 TR (triple rail). The front part of the forward handgrip on P90 is shaped as hand protector, and it can contain integral laser aiming module, which sends either visible or IR laser beam to mark the intended target. For special missions P90 can be fitted with a special silencer, which is used in conjunction with special subsonic ammunition.

I have started to work on what you can call a "Combat Tracker". The GM of another game where I'm playing uses this and it's really useful in my opinion.

It tracks all the useful numbers from your character sheets and when you will be in fight, all your opponents stats will be added here too. You will be then sorted by initiative so it will help you to know when it's your turn to play.
With the tracked stats, you can easily know who you can fight and what's the odd of success when trying to attack a target.

In the folder, you can find one sheet for the three first SG-X team but only SG-X1 is completed at the moment of this post.
If you think that I should add more informations in the sheets, tell me which one and I will add them.

You can access the document here : https://docs.google.com/spread...;usp=drive_web#gid=1

Something looks odd about the saves listed on that tracker, you may want to make sure all of them are being calculated using the D20 rules base as some look like they may be closer to the SAGA or 4th edition method, and the two are not particularly compatible.

Have a Merry Christmas folks!  *hugs all round*

I'll probably be slow until the new year too, but thanks for the beginnings of what looks to be a very interesting game!

Happy Holidays!
xox

Don't worry about that. It appears like almost everyone will be busy. The hardest thing is that some of you are trapped on another world, far from their home.

And don't expect a gift sent by the SGC through the Stargate !

Merry Yule people
And whom ever or what ever you believe have a great time

May Odin the Allfather ride across the sky on his eight-legged horse Sleipnir and grant you all great treasures!

Merry Christmas, Boas Festas, Feliz Navidad, Buon Natale.

Et Joyeux Noël ! :D

Have a wonderful time these days, people!

Yes, indeed! Merry Christmas!

Happy holidays!

can anyone explain the difference between the EOD bundle and the Demolitions bundle? one would think they would be very similar...

The Demolitions Bundle is for blowing things up! It has explosives and detonators.

The EOD Bundle is for keeping things from blowing up. It has a bomb sniffer and a bomb squad suit.