For out of character discussion, character brainstorming, rules questions, or anything else.
This message had punctuation tweaked by the GM at 10:15, Tue 29 Aug 2017.

Hey guys, I'm working on my fighter build, and I wanted some input on my ability score selection.

I'm going for a medium armor, rapier based fighter, so I went with these scores:

Str: 10
Dex: 16
Con: 15
Int: 14
Wis: 8
Cha: 14

Any suggestions?
This message was last edited by the player at 10:35, Thu 29 May 2014.

In reply to Bruenor Sedricson (msg # 2):

Weapon Finesse comes to mind, but it probably already came to yours.  ;)  Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus, or eventually Improved Trip.  It might not hurt to throw a few cross-class skills in Tumble, if you can afford it.  You could also get clever with items to help put your opponents off-balance, like caltrops or marbles or tanglefoot bags.

Yeah,I grabbed that Int so I could go into cross-class, thinking specifically of Bluff, so that later I can gain rogue and feint!

The caltrops suggestion is clever, and combat reflexes too.

I'm going with a Elven Druid, first time I'm playing a druid so I'm more then open to any suggestions as well.

Hello everyone,
I'll be your wizard. Here are my stats, what do you think?
Str: 12 (+1) {4 points}
Dex: 14 (+2) {6 points}
Con: 14 (+2) {6 points}
Int: 16 (+3) {10 points}
Wis: 11 (+0) {3 points}
Cha: 11 (+0)  {3 points}

Perhaps I should reduce strength, wisdom and charisma and increase the other stats?

Looks like a nice balance to me.  I can't decide if I want to put the points into INT or CHA.  INT would give me more skill points but CHA is what handle animals is based on. Shrug.

Hazeel Thorn: I would personally drop the strength to an even 10, since you won't need it for ranged attacks and your low hp means melee is the wrong place to be. You shouldn't be carrying too many items, and you won't suffer armor penalties for strength-based skills. Also, if I may ask, are you going to be a specialist wizard?

Narthian Goldleaf: WHen stuck on a debate like this, perhaps you can use this issue o flesh out your character; what is Narthian like? Is he analytical or personable, does he have experience with people, or does he usually study alone, when in a heated debate, does make appeals or arguments? This can be an opportunity.

Bruenor, so if I drop Strength to 10, should I increase Int? Con? Dex?
I was thinking in specializing in conjuration and so drop enchantment/Illusion.

Narthian, you might want to put them in Charisma would make sense for a druid, no?

Haazheel Thorn: Well, dropping strength to 10 only gives you two points, which would give you only one extra point in Con or Dex, and nothing in Int. Honestly, I would probably say invest in Dex, for armor class later, or in Charisma, to make up for your choice of prohibited schools; If you can't leverage magic, your going to have to rely on good old glibness in conversations, or else let the personable people, like myself, address the plebs.

On the subject of school choices, I think that your ideas could work, they just aren't my picks; use of conjuration means keeping track of summons, an extra layer of difficulty, but also one of the stronger pools of spells, also allowing for instant flanks *wink*. Necromancy has the same problems as conjuration, with the added draw-back, in my opinion, of making you generally a creepy individual. I usually drop necromancy for this reason, but I have to admit that it has some very diverse, very unique applications. In fact, for an example of necromancy done right, check out the second SilverClawShift campaign journal on Giant In the Playground. In the end, I believe they are all valid choices, so play as you like.

Haazheel Thorn - Your stats say a lot about your character.  Does your wizard need the 12 Str?  Technically, no.  If you want to maximize your wizardly attributes, you pump up Int (for spell DCs), Dex (for AC and aiming ranged touch spells), and Wis (for Will saves), maybe Con to be less fragile and Cha if you're planning on interacting with people on a regular basis.  Strength for wizards is often a "dump stat," i.e. the one most people neglect.

However, just because that's typical doesn't mean you have to go that route.  Your character could be a bit more athletic or outdoorsy than most wizards, which could be fun to roleplay.  People look at the guy with robes and a spellbook and think, "wimpy nerd."  Then they're surprised when you use your quarterstaff to knock them upside the head.  ;)  In a less violent but certainly useful way, you can also haul more stuff, which is nice when you're raiding old ruins or carting around a lot of supplies.

One of the more interesting characters I ever played was called Squall the Small.  We were rolling for stats, rather than point-buy, and we had each rolled several sets.  Two of mine had a lot of average or slightly above average, many of them very similar.  The last set had three or four fantastic stats, but also a 5.  I ended up playing a gnome cleric and putting that 5 in Str, which due to gnome racial penalties, dropped to a 3.  He wore full plate, but a stiff breeze would knock him over and he wasn't able to get up again.

A strong cleric with a decent wisdom can be an amazing combat tank.  Obviously, that was not Squall's forte.  Squall turned into the ultimate support cleric with excellent undead turning skills.  When he had time to cast buffing spells on the party, they could take on challenges that might have been far beyond their reach, and the rest of the characters defended him fiercely.

That "handicap" of low Strength turned into some great roleplaying opportunities.

Yes, dropping your Str could add to your Dex or Cha or even Wis, but it really depend on how you view your character.

If you want to go the summoner route, maybe your character is used to wrangling his summoned creatures, or has traveled a lot in order to see various examples of what he'll be summoning.  He's done more "fieldwork," so he's tougher than your average wizard.

---

Narthian Goldleaf - Ah, the eternal struggle between skill points and animal handling.  the question is what is your character's strength?  Do you want to be able to try to calm any savage beasts you meet without having to cast spells, or do you need the skill points for more outdoorsy kinds of things?
This message was last edited by the GM at 04:58, Fri 30 May 2014.

Hey hey!

I submitted several diff character concepts, and the GM and I are kicking around which one the party might need most - a tough and resourceful dwarven trapspringer, an elven archer w/ Awareness feats (read "early warning system"), a Cleric-Fighter heading toward Paladin, or a Bard for all Seasons.

I'm good with any of them, so whatever hole is in the party, that's where I'll plug someone in.


Some Comments...


Wizards w/ 10 Str are fine, but those w/ 12 always seem to have fewer problems having what they need in their pack. It's only 1 facet of the character, and all in all a minor one, but a nice twist. While 10 pds isn't (always) a big deal, the diff between being able to actually carry a 100 pound unconscious companion and a 130 pound one can be!

A true power-build would have Int at 17, so it can go to 18 at 4th level, but that does sacrifice a lot of survivability in other areas. (And while I don't recommend "power builds" in general, and they are not for all characters/classes, of all the classes Wizards do benefit the most from them. # spells, spell ST's, skill points - bam. If you're going to be a glass cannon, be the baddest one on the block) ;)

However, if you don't do that then I would def not miss out on a bonus with either Wis or Cha - 12 (for +1) in one, 10 (+0) in the other. 11/11 gives you nothing but 2 "almosts", and "almost" isn't worth anything here.


It gives a +1 to that skill (and all other social skills), but Int gives one more skill rank, every level = +3 at 3rd, +7 at 7th, etc. Which do you see your character using more often? (Or wanting to really nail?)

A Druid gets 4 + Int skills. To me, a Druid "should" have...

o Animal Empathy
o Kn (Nature)
o Wild Lore
o Listen
o Spot

That's 5. & then (at least!) 1 rank in...

o Intuit Direction
o SpellCraft
o an "appropriate" Craft or Profession

So that's Int 14, if you can afford it. :/

(Note - you could also multiclass w/ Rogue, for the skill points and etc, and go the "1st level multiclass" route, DMG p 40) so Goldleaf is "a druid" at 1st level. As an option. Makes for a more tricky/versatile Druid at the cost of pure spell power (and no animal companion until 2nd level). Have to take 2 Ranks in the cross-class skills, but 4 Ranks in Listen, Spot, Search, Climb, Balance, Hide, Move Silent, Tumble, Use Rope... lots of options open up to let him move in the woods better. ymmv.)


The time to go Rogue is now, 1st level - 8+Int skill points x four! Go the 1st-level-multi route if you really need the bonus feat and the armour/weapons proficiencies, but go Rogue first for the skills!

He doesn't have to take any of the "thiefish" skills (or not many?), but 4 ranks in all the nice ones are money. +4 in Tumble (you know), Balance (for fighting on unusual surfaces), you'll get your Bluff (and other Cha skills?), Spot and Listen, maybe Move Silent (+3 Dex!), and so many more* - SO much more effective than taking Rogue later.  So. ;)

(* Lots of "1 rank" in "trained only" skills that open those doors to allow a roll, too. And/or Climb/Jump, fighter skills that he might build on later.)

And low Wisdom means - well, you know. He's kinda blind and slightly deaf, and easily enspelled - but he ~is~ rather charming despite those flaws! ;D
This message was last edited by the player at 11:26, Fri 30 May 2014.

I cannot find the variant rule you are talking about, Nonam.

Also, as this is a "Simple" game, I won't be employing variant rules without discussing it with you guys first.  1st level multiclasses are, in my opinion, the exact opposite of simple.

And as a point for our druid, Intuit Direction was only a skill in 3.0.  It got folded into Survival in 3.5.

I am personally biased, as allowing this rule would mean re-vamping my character, and I really don't want to, but I'd say I'm against using that rule. Then again, I am biased.

Thanks a lot for your advices, what do you think now of this stats:
Str: 12 (+1) {4 points}
Dex: 14 (+2) {6 points}
Con: 14 (+2) {6 points}
Int: 16 (+3) {10 points}
Wis: 12 (+2) {4 points}
Cha: 10 (+0)  {2 points}

I think I'll keep strength at 12 for flavor. He is not an old nerdy wizard who spent his life in a library, he likes to travel, to go on adventures... and if you mess with him, beware of his quarterstaff ;)

I will work on the spells and familiar asap. Any suggestion for a bonus feat (as a human he gets one)? Skill focus on arcana knowledge?
This message was last edited by the player at 20:07, Fri 30 May 2014.

(accidentally edited/ deleted post - derp.

Mos Def need more coffee. Sorry.)
:P
This message was last edited by the player at 21:27, Sat 31 May 2014.

Nonam: You make compelling arguments, but your mention of the character's roots being in fighter are true. However, I must personally thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for being so respectful, helpful, and all around great guy! A lot of people tend to get agressive, or at least passive-agressive, when their advice is ignored, but you have been a perfect gentleman. I wish there were more people like you on this site, my friend.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:58, Sat 31 May 2014.

If you're definitely going to go for being a specialist summoner, like NoName said, Spell Focus (conjuration) and Augment Summoning are really great feats to take.  Augment Summoning makes all your summoned creatures tougher, and who wouldn't want that?  If you don't want to go that route, Skill Focus (Knowledge: Arcana), Skill Focus (Spellcraft), or a utility feat like Dodge, Self-Sufficient, or Toughness might be interest.

As for what schools to drop - every school has something good, and it's painful giving up two no matter what you do.

Like NoName said, Enchantment has a good passel of spells, but you have to commit to raising your DCs as high as possible.  Enchatments are usually all or nothing - if they make their save, nothing happens, tough tub of taffy, hope you got a backup plan sort of thing.  When they succeed, they do so spectacularly, but that is something you need to be aware of.

Illusion has a great deal of utility, and while it has a lot of the same weaknesses as Enchantment (DCs are very important), it's not as mission-critical.  In many cases, you only have to save against an illusion if you interact with it, so if you're clever, you can keep your foes at bay without ever having to have them interact (put a wall where your fighter is, make your ranger look like a tree).

While both schools have much to recommend them, if you see your wizard as a "student of the real," thematically he might have chosen to neglect those two disciplines in order to focus on summoning/creating real things, instead of smoke and mirrors.

Another possibility to drop would be necromancy.  A wizard gets some decent necromancy spells, but most of them are what we call "debuffs," used to weaken your opponent before defeating or killing them.  You may find your summoned creatures to be more useful in that regard - weakening foes so the fighter-types can take them out.  And then your summoned creatures can also scout, have senses your party lacks (like darkvision or scent), or even (if strong enough) removed obstacles or move the party where they want to go.

I'd definitely keep transmutation and abjuration - a wizard had get an insane amount of mileage out of those schools.  Evocation, of course, is the classic D&D school of magic missiles and fireballs.  If your summoned creature can't kill it, finish it off with a magic missile to the face.  :D  (You don't have to take that spell, of course, it's just a nice one to have in case of emergencies.)

What sort of familiar were you thinking about, just out of curiosity?

---

To all, we definitely will not be using 1st level multiclasses.  Or variant races.  So... one more thing to not worry about. :)

I'm about 75% done with my character.  I still need to do spells, equipment, and the personality stuff.  I will get to it later today or tomorrow.

This message was deleted by the player at 21:12, Sat 31 May 2014.

This message was deleted by the player at 21:17, Sat 31 May 2014.

I'm nearly done as well. mainly equipment now and fluff. Tomorrow night hopefully. I work every sunday all day.

Welcome Drogo!

What can you share with us about your Rogue character?


And that is, to use the technical Latin term, a deal breaker. <bows to a man of principle>



<nods>

In some circles, spells have several classifications:

o Save or Die.
Many Enchantments, like "Sleep", are in this category. Even if not literally appropriate, might as well be. "Stand very still, raise your chin up and shut your eyes, thank you..."  Problem is these are usually only 1 Target - 1 Saving Throw for all the marbles. That can make these a real "do or die" for both sides of the spell.

o Save or Suck.
Debuffs, or things like Glitterdust. Not (necessarily) a killer, but removes target from combat or greatly lowers their effectiveness. Nice thing about these is many are area-effect, so several targets get to Save or Suck - bound to catch at least one. Good for battlefield control.

o Save and still Suck.
Rare, but very popular - they do X with a save, and do even more without. GREAT for battlefield control. Examples are Web (Save for half-movement) or Grease (save for being flat-footed - and all the Rogues say "thx! kk bb!"). ;)

o No Saving throw allowed.
Sign me up. Self explanatory. Includes things like Walls (or Web) when they can simply create a barrier. Ray of Enfeeblement (but you have to "touch" w/ the ray).

As a note, while the big blow'm up spells (Fireball, etc) seem "the biggest damage", a really good "Now You SUCK!" spell can allow the melee/missile types in the party to do MUCH more additional damage in the same time.  While it seems painful and even counter-intuitive to drop Evocation, some wizards can more than make up for that lack and never miss those spells in their limited spell slots.

(Not quite sure how I got off on this tangent - but now there it's there, I'll just leave it for consideration. Hmmmm... more coffee...)
:?
This message was last edited by the player at 21:28, Sat 31 May 2014.

Stats will be
Str 6
Dex 20
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 8

Light Crossbow
Feat: Point Blank Shot

Skills: Disable Device,Open Locks,Listen,Spot,Search,Hide,Move Silent,Tumble,Climb,Slight of Hand

Ah, that kind of rogue! ;D

Sounds good!

Yep, I'll check for all the traps and disable them. Open those locked doors. Scout around. cover everones back. Pick a few pockets inbetween. And Juggle and tumble when we in town and need a bit of coin.

Alright. I (Nasty McDirty) am finally in y'all. sorry it has taken me so long. I was having difficulties with my stupid CPU. But, now I am almost ready. I will be your resident Barbarian.

By the way, how do we turn in our characters and once we have them ready?

Not sure, sorry.

(And I'd ask what sort of Barbarian Vo'V is, but... is there more than 1 type?) ;D

I just posted my character under the character details section and keep the DM updated by posting here.

Hey guys, guess who's a fully graduated senior from high school!!!!

PC with no name, which concept are you going with? Shouldn't matter which one as all the based are covered. I say go with you one you like best.

(Edit: Just call me Noname for now, works for me)
;)


Posted to the GM earlier on that exact topic, haven't heard back yet.

o The dwarven trapspringer is obviously redundant, so he's out.  Woulda been fun, but we're covered there. (And he's "that" kind of rogue also - no social skills, pure trapspringer, so brings very little new to the table. He'd have been a solid 2nd-rank fighter more than ranged, but that's a dwarf vs. a halfling.)

o I could go w/ the Elven archer/Ranger/awareness package - he'd give the party the outdoors edge, a general "Oh, there's trouble hiding up ahead" radar, and combined with the 20 Dex Rogue x-bow, the 16 Dex fighter and even the Barbarian (longbow?) and Druid (sling), we could make quite a ranged fire team (while the wizard looks on approvingly, watches our backs, cleans his nails and acts as heavy reserve - that's his job).

o I could also go with the Bard - a great "6th man" for any party, a bard adds that X factor in- and out of combat, and could add the full spectrum of "face man" skills that the party currently lacks.  A Bard alone very rarely shines - a party with a Bard shines so much brighter. ;)


But the real problem is that the party doesn't have a Healer, and I'm not it either.  The Druid can do it out of combat - "next day" is fine if we have a day to burn - but Druids can't hot-swap for healing spells.  And I'm not excited about running a pure cleric, or anything close, sorry.

o My 4th character submission (multi, eventually heading toward paladin) could grab a 1st level of Cleric at 2nd level, and so be a good back-up/support healer then, but offers nothing until then.  But that's only 1 level of Cleric anywhere on the near horizon, so still not enough for the whole party.  (Note that this one's LG aligned - not a Paladin yet, so not a real boyscout, but... fair warning.)


I'm good with any of those - probably listed them in my preference, all things considered, but it's a close call - any would fine work for me.
This message was last edited by the player at 10:33, Sun 01 June 2014.

I have a cleric pending from another source, so pick which character you feel would be most fun/useful, NoName.

Drogo and the elf ranger could set up a nice field of crossfire wherever they go, while the bard could be the barker for this little circus, "Step right up, step right up, genuine adventurers here!"  :D

----

Congrats Bruenor!  (Alas, I am... shoot, 15 years beyond that happy day.)

----

As for submitting character sheets - As of this post I have made everyone's character sheet user editable, and given you a blank template.  However, look at the sample character sheet I have posted.  Your sheet should be identical to that sheet in format.  Bolding, parentheses, the way I totaled skills, the lot.  If people's sheets are different in a dozen tiny ways, it's going to be mega-hard for me to figure out what's what.  Also, that sheet is my "show your work" sheet - all of your mechanics and the reasons behind them are listed, so it's easier to find mistakes.

Yeah, I think it's between the Elven Archer and the Bard., but they provide very different elements and their strengths lie in very different directions.

Any GM hints whether we'll have more or less "outdoor" vs. "social/town" (vs. dungeon) adventures? Any input from the crowd?

I envision a long journey, your path sometimes through villages, sometimes trailing to the side to explore ruins or strange phenomena, very occasionally straying through cities.  So, probably no lengthy underground confinement, nor staying in a city for months on end.

Thanks again for your advices. I have been busy recently, sorry for the delay in my answers.
Reading your comments I decided to give up necromancy and keep Illusion. My character is not the type of Wizard who will learn necromancy, he will prefer to combat against necromancers.
I have 20 skill points to spend, my first array is the following:
4 Spellcraft
4 Concentration
4 Knowledge Arcana
4 Decipher Script
1 History
1 Nature
1 Religion
1 Architecture/engineering

I was hesitating which familiar, I like for flavor the Owl.

My spell list (according to the table 3 level 0, 1 level 1 and 1 conjuration spell as a specialist)

level 0
Acid splash
Detect magic
Dancing lights

Level 1
Summon Monster 1

Conjuration extra spell
Mage Armor or Color Spray?

I rolled 90gp, I have to look for the equipment. I already chose a light crossbow (I will upgrade for a heavy later when I'll have more money) and a quarterstaff.

Now, you get to learn all the 0th level spells, save those from your prohibited schools.  You also know 3+Int mod 1st level spells in your spellbook.

You get 1 spell per day from your class, one conjuration spell for being specialized, and another from having a high Int.

Unless you're going to be in combat or casting on some lightly-armored fellow who is, I think you might be better served with color spray... or summon monster 1!

Haazheel: also, you don't roll for gold, you take the average, and don't forget the bolts for said crossbow. From there, just grab some living gear (remember to keep it light). And, for the love of Kord, don't forget to purchase any outstanding spell components, if any.

One last thing, you probably are aware already, but I am going to say it here; if you want to cast a given spell more than once a day, you have to prepare that spell multiple times, with multiple spell slots, that day. For example, if I had 3 level 1 spell slots, and wanted to use magic missile twice that day and Mage armor once, my list would look like this:

1st level:
Magic missile
Magic missile
Mage armor
This message was last edited by the player at 22:57, Sun 01 June 2014.

Knowledges cannot be used untrained, so just 1 rank gives you that roll + Int. Good call.


If you've made up your mind on "flavor", great! But I'm sure others will have flying animals/familiars/companions, and there some other familiars that will help keep him alive better via Saving Throws. Just so you don't think that's a deciding factor.


With a party this big, the only thing you're really worried about is missile fire, and unless/until you run forward that won't be targeted at you. Mage Armour can be handy in melee, but it doesn't last all day (yet), and if someone runs up one of us will be there to talk to them. So, again, going with offense is probably better than a defense that you may or may not need.

It's tough at first with only 3 spells to offer to the party (plus misc cantrips), but I always try to have my wizards be prepared for (at least) 2 combats and/or 1 big one. Something that will level the field nicely and decisively. Summon Monsterr is good (and will get better), but it's just 1 more friendly face, and (for now) just 1 round. So whatever your other 2 choices, make sure they pull their weight - don't get fancy yet, just put the hammer down and smile. ;)
This message was last edited by the player at 23:52, Sun 01 June 2014.

It is always a challenge to play a wizard, particularly when beginning at first level. I say just go with your gut and with what you think will make your character stand out. Above all, let's remember to try and keep it simple and have fun.

Can't wait for the carnage. I have updated some of my character description and sheet. Volsh will be quite the rounded character with the following attributes:

STR 16
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 12
CON 10

HT: 6'8"
WGT: 285
Hair: Light Brown, long and slightly wavy. Full, unkept beard.
Eyes: Dull Green (except when in rage. hehehe)

FEATS:
Quick Draw
Power Attack

+ A handful of good solid skills.

Thanks for the tip Bruenor, I'll check for spell compenents.
DM, i'm confused. When i look to the wizard table i have 3 level 0, one level 1, one level 1 bonus since i have a high int and one bonus level 1 conjuration as a specialist. These are my slots of spells i can prepare and use per day. Correct?
Do I cast level 0 spells without needing to prepare them? Are they one time cast or multiple?
All level 0 spells are in my spellbook (except necro and enchantment)?
The three level 1 spells i will choose will be per se in my spellbook?

I'm almost done with my character sheet, hope to have fun soon with all of you guys! Welcome Volsh our Barbarian!

Oh yeah... I meant to ask... DM would you happen to have a crude map of the land we are in?

(He has a nice map - we're trying to teach it to belch and swear and fart and scratch its privates - we'll let you know when it's "barbarian ready".)
;)


@ Haazheel Thorn

Spellbook and spell slots are entirely different, and unrelated.

It's possible to have a spellbook handed to you with hundreds of spells, but only be able to case a few (as per that Table). It's also possible to lose your spellbook, and have no spells to learn each day (this is, as they say in the olde tongue, "bad").


Correct.

The Table shows what the minimum spells are that a wizard can cast each day. If they have high enough Int (you do), they get another +1/day of that level, from any School they can cast. And if a wizard has a Specialization, they have an additional 1 spell in that School (only) that they can prepare and cast/day.

So at 1st level, when you prepare your spells, you can prepare any 3 Lvl 0 (that are not banned), plus any 2 Level 1 that you know, plus 1 more Level 1 in your Specialty.


All Wizard's spells must be prepared before being cast. All prepared spells can only be cast once*, and then are "forgotten" until prepared again from a spellbook.

(* There are some nifty (and expensive?) magic items that allow a spell to be "retained" after being cast. Just fyi.)

All spells are cast 1/round.*  Note that most spells take one full action (effectively consuming an entire round, but being cast before the Round is over), but some few (see Feather Fall, for example) take less.

(* barring some advanced metamagic Feats/Rules that will probably not enter into this game)

(Also, spells with "Range:Touch" can be cast ahead of time, and "held" on the fingertips, and can take effect "later" on the first target you touch. No other spell can be cast while "holding" such a spell, or the held-spell is lost. See Rules for more info.)


A Wizard's starting spellbook contains all Level 0 spells except for those Schools that are banned due to Specialization.  So, yes, correct.

A Wizard's starting spellbook also contains a number of Level equal to 3 + Int Modifier.  So (as a purely random example, ahem) a Wizard with a 16 (+3) Int starts with 3 + 3, or 6 x1st level spells, chosen from any school that is not banned due to Specialization.


When a Wizard prepares spells, they can "erase" and choose entirely new ones, or save a bit of time and just add to the ones they did not use the day before. A spell is remembered and ready until cast - there is no "expiration date". Years could pass, and the spell is still there, unless cast or replaced by another.
This message was last edited by the player at 06:12, Mon 02 June 2014.

Yarp, your DM she does!  It's up in the Game Map section.  It's fairly sparsely populated in terms of naming every place ever, so if you want to say, "I'm from the village of Vinnish Morn on the banks of the Seed River," I shan't quibble.  The Farlight Forest is the biggest and oldest of the forests, but not the only forest.  Feel free to make some up if need be.  Just, you know, don't add a massive volcano or something in the middle of the plains.  I shall be cross if you do.  And then I'll send a fire giant after you, so there!

Albon (southern coast of the Sea of Song) is a major trade center.

The Unwanted Sands are dry lands shifting into desert right before they meet the cliffs above the Forbidden Lands.

Aaaaand, I think that's the major stuff.  I'll have a post up later about Low'verok's guild system, and the Adventurer's Guild.

---



NoName did a good job of explaining, so I'm just adding.  :)

But yes, the spell chart in the book shows the base amount of spells you can cast per day.  Then you get a bonus 1st level spell per day for having a high Int, and another 1st level spell (any conjuration spell) for being a Conjurer.

Your spellbook is basically your study notes of every spell that you know.  You study these notes for an hour every morning, and select which spells you prepare that day.  You can prepare a spell more than once so thusly you can cast it more than once, as NoName described.

You do NOT want to lose your spellbook - you are unable to prepare any spells (save read magic, all wizards can prepare that from memory) until you get it back.  Keep it safe.  When you get more money, you can buy spellbooks made from tougher materials than paper, books that are waterproof or even fireproof!

As for casting time, most spells are one action, which means you can cast it and have it go off in a round.  One or two you can cast faster - notably feather fall, which you can cast even when it's not your turn.

The one big exception, which you need to know as a conjurer, is the spells that take a "full-round action" to cast.  Notably those include all the summon monster spells.  That means you start casting it one round and keep casting, but it doesn't go off until your turn comes around on the next round.

Having ranks in Concentration and/or the Combat Casting feat may be useful for you.  If someone manages to damage you while you're in the midst of casting, you have to make a Concentration check or lose your spell.

There are a few other spells with longer casting times (ten minutes, an hour), but you generally never have to worry about them in a combat situation.

Sheet is done and ready for inspection except for his spells, which I have to do when I get home from the store. ;)

Are we already members of this guild? Or do we need to join up?

If we have to join, I hope it is either VERY cheap, or we 'already paid'.

Since dues are only 1gp, you may consider yourself already a member (essentially, the DM will pay, or maybe you had a friend who spotted you the gold), or you may roleplay out getting your first badge, whichever tickles your fancy more.

Ok everything but my spells are done. I think :)

It's a hard decision, choosing one spell to have access to and rejecting another - so many spells you want, so few spaces on the starting list.  I don't know if this will help, but when I choose spells for a Wizzie I take several things into consideration...

1) You can't use them all at once, so be realistic about what "having one more" will do for you. Having several nifty attack spells does you no real good if you only have room for 1 or 2 to start, or you're just going to rely on 1 favorite.


b) I try to decide what sort of spells I want for a typical day of "adventuring" - maybe 2 attack, one personal defense - something like that. Utility spells are great, but will you really want to have one in place of something more... "meaty"? (and see next...)
 No one knows what a day might bring, but there are different expectations for any specific environment.  So, I have 3-4 modes for which mix of spells are memorized - wilderness travel, city/town, "dungeon crawl", or "at home" (or whatever, and however you want to define those).  If nothing dangerous is on the agenda, you can afford to take more Utility spells and fewer pure combat.


iii) Utility spells (Hold Portal, Spider Climb, Erase) are great, but you almost have to know in advance whether that one spell will be handy or not - at lower levels, you just don't have room to gamble "just in case this comes in useful".  So, if(?) you want some, pick the ones that you might reasonably be able to predict in advance. It's easier to know "tomorrow we'll need to do X" and have that spell ready for some of those than others.

Otoh, if one really speaks to you, that "this is a problem I'd really like to be able to solve", then that's you.

Note: Also, especially if the spell is not greatly improved by Level, you can buy scrolls of that spell, to have in your hip pocket for when you need them. THIS is how many pro wizards deal with the wide variety of "utility" effects that are nice but just not predictably useful. ;)


fourth) Some spells really just aren't good until higher level. For example, Tenser's Floating Disk carries 100 pounds/level for 1 hour/level. So at 1st level, it can carry 100 pounds for 1 hour - meh. But at 3rd level, now it can carry 300 pounds - an unconscious body + gear, for instance - for 3 hours, and now we're talkin'.  If a spell isn't helpful until later, then save it for later (or, at least, "not to start" - see comments at bottom).


Also) Some spells are more flexible than others, to be able to solve more than 1 problem. As a few examples, Flaming Hands can light a campfire or torches quickly, Unseen Servant can carry "anything, anywhere", and illusions can be as versatile as your imagination. Some magi get a LOT of mileage out of getting creative with the same spell.


Last) And don't forget - there are 2 ways to learn more spells. First, you WILL get +1 spell of the highest level you can learn when you level up - so you will learn +1 1st Level spell at 2nd, and +1 2nd Level spell at 3rd and 4th Level, etc.  Also, during any level* you can buy a scroll and try to learn that spell by making a SpellCraft roll - no guarantees, but it's a pretty good bet. (If you fail the roll, you have to wait until next Level to try again.)

(* Even before your first adventure, if you can scrape up the cash and find someone to sell you the scroll!)

If that helps any, yw - we've all been where you are, trying to make that decision. ;)
This message was last edited by the player at 22:25, Mon 02 June 2014.

Don't forget, you're a wizard. You just make a few scrolls of the utility spells that you might need, save your slots for attack/defend.

If you have the XP to do item creation.  ;)

For purposes of that, I'll grant everyone 50 XP to start, assuming you have your character backgrounds, personalities, and descriptions up.


Everyone, when you do your description, have both your physical appearance as well as any outward mannerisms or personality.  Yes, you may be a good-looking elf archer, but if you walk into town with your bow habitually in hand and a scowl on your face, that will get a different initial reaction than if you have your weapon stowed, a smile on your face, and are whistling a jaunty tune.  Just saying.

And even if you have your description up in the Description section, remember to fill out all the sections of your character sheet.  All of them.

.

Ok here's what I went with skills.  Like I said this is the first time I've played a Druid so I kinda spread it around a bit.

Handle Animal +7 (4 ranks, +1 Cha, +2 animal affinity)
Heal +6 (3 ranks, +3 Cha)
Knowledge (nature) +8 (4 ranks, +2 Int, +2 druid)
Listen +8 (3 ranks, +3 Wis, +2 elf)
Spellcraft +5 (3 ranks, +2 Int)
Spot +8 (3 ranks, +3 Wis, +2 elf)
Survival +9 (4 ranks, +3 Wis, +2 druid)

Did someone say "good looking elf archer"?  (Well, then keep looking, cuz this ain't that...) ;D


And Welcome, Farian! (sorry, entirely missed that we had a new face!)


Hokay - after deep moral searching (read: I slept on it), I've decided... the Elven Archer.

(A Bard just won't add that much to the party at 1st level - 1 song/day, 2x cantrips/day, a light armoured meh-fighter - hrmmmmm... a few Rank 4 social skills could be handy at times, but... nah. By 3rd-4th level, yes, but I'd like to see something right out of the gate for this game.) :/

So...

Averdante - Elven archer

A is not a "Ranger" - or not yet*. A's motivations are typically elven in their simplicity - "do good" and excel at one's chosen path.

(* Rogue at Lvl 1, Ranger at Lvl 2. This will also let him choose his "Favored Enemy" in character, as his "enemy" grows organically based on his experiences during our adventures.) (& not Oozes... please?) ;D

Str 14 (6)
Dex 18 (10)(16+2)
Con 12 (6) (14-2)
Int 14 (6)
Wis 12 (4)
Cha _8 (0)

4 ranks in each of ...

o Listen*, Spot*, Search
o Hide, Move Silently
o Balance, Tumble
o Climb, Use Rope
o & 1 rank in each of Appraise, Dis Dev, Open Lock, and Kn: Local (representing "mysterious elfy learning" more than any (in)formal "thief" training.)

*Feat: Alertness (4 ranks +2 Feat + 1 Wisdom +2 elf = +9 bonus to each)

Longsword, Longbow, Studded Leather Armour (& 10 gp doesn't leave much else...)


"Heal" is one of those skills that may be critical or may never get used. The Cleric can do so much better with a single spell - IF they are nearby. The biggest use of Heal is to stabilize a character who is down and bleeding (DC 15) if a Cleric is busy - or if it's the Cleric that's down and bleeding.

I notice you have no Concentration. If you take damage or get jostled, or there are any other distractions going on, you need to make a Concentration roll to cast any spell, or you lose it. For a spellcaster, Concentration can be pretty important.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/concentration.htm

Sadly, a character must have enough intelligence to get enough skill points to spend. My cleric is lacking in concentration. He has it, but not enough ranks for my taste.

My point was that it might be more, or at least [u]as[/i] important as, say, Healing.

Granted, it's more important for a front-line spellcaster (combat cleric, for example) than a back-row Druid, but there are lots of situations where, damage or no, a Concentration roll is required. Good for any "adventuring" caster, if they can scrape it up.

(It may have gotten overlooked, but here's a link to a (partial) list from the official SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/concentration.htm), just to spark the imagination.)

I think I may just take your advice, A.  I skipped right over concentration when I was doing my skills.  I guess I missed it.

Concentration may be of more use to Haarheel than Narthian or Farian, purely because of his vulnerability.  He's less tough than you two, so needs to make sure his spells go off without a hitch.

Not that it's a bad choice for any spellcaster, mind.  :)

As long as you're out of harm's way, you don't need it that bad, but if you plan on being where you can get hurt, you need it.

Well, I think I'm gonna be seeing some of the combat side of things.  Not as much as the heavies but some.

Truth to tell, we really don't have any real "heavies" - the Fighter wears medium by choice (as per character concept, all good), the Barbarian does so by necessity, and the Cleric, while able to wear Heavy amour, is not a true "fighter" type - not sure what his attitude toward combat will be, whether excited to be on the front line or not (or even whether really capable of doing so).

That means that the Druid and the two archer/Rogues are among our "2nd-row Fighters" (with the wiz in back) - which tells you something about how the combats might go at times. :/


(Now that I think about it, maybe Healing will be a good thing...) ;D </jk>
This message was last edited by the player at 21:46, Tue 03 June 2014.

Not averse to it, but better armor will come in handy! Too poor to buy better.

TELL me about it! Leather - ouch. :(

Oh, where is the mithril chain of yesteryear?!  Is that really so much to ask? ;D

Opps picked the wrong color.  Didn't mean to step on your toes, Farian :)  I'll change it next post.

In reply to Narthian Goldleaf (msg # 66):

LOL, doesn't matter. Sometimes I forget what color I am and change. ;)

Everyone - In the Guildhall thread, you can "take a closer look at the board," if you want to look for different sorts of notices (maybe you're looking for a job that involves undead, or wild animals, or strange magical phenomena, or needs a good tracker).  You could also try to ply some of the other Guild members to see if they have any deathless wisdom (or long-winded pointless yarns) to impart.  They might know which towns have good inns, good food, bad food, bad roads, surly mayors, nice barmaids, etc.

The Guildhall thread is a place for everyone to stretch out and interact a smidge before we get down to action scenes.  But I'm also not adverse to some shared world-building.  If you go looking for "something," you'll likely find it.

Sweet!

Well said - sweet!
;D

I was planning to get up early this morning but had a rough night and now overslept. I was planning on finishing up my origin and start posting. Now I'll have to wait until this evening after work. Sorry guys.

No prob, Drogo, I'm actually about to go to bed myself.

I just finished my character sheet thanks to all of you! Hope I will make a good wizard for our party!

All right everyone, I have enacted language groups.  So if you want to speak to someone in Elven, for example, just highlight your text and go to "Private to Group" (under the drop-down menu for "Insert a private line:") and select "Elven."  Everyone who speaks Elven will be able to see it. Those who don't will only see gibberish.

Hey everyone. Just want to say I'm really enjoying everyones posting. I can see we're going to have a blast.

This is a test in Orcish.
[Language unknown:
Tra elri ri ro nteio se our,
et focom ect we com erres,
Yinnotwhi eeinut lo ngest po erefortic,
i ho el latll ti nttril urest.]

Blargh.

It's all gibberish to me, so it must work fine.

Cool!

Since I wrote it I can see it (regardless whether my character speaks Orc or not) - could you/someone copy/paste it so I can see the gibberish, pls? Thx! :D

This is a test in Orcish.
[Language unknown:
Roeeus m p o es o ev,
o iv asplhe al wiurnc venderoul,
Somereame omanntsi na di t ncdiilen,
ck aiprek m a replel rutlesineone camead.]

<squints>

That's gibberish, alrighty! I'd recognize it anywhere!

thx! ;)

DM: yeah I gotta get my PC sheet done quick, sorry about that. I got overzealous with the intro IC.

Quick question, I don't fully understand how combat works in a contest such as the guildmaster is challenging Volsh. Does it just happen like normal only "hits" are assumed to be pulled punches of sorts to not actually cause damage?

Attacking with a weapon in a manner that will not cause harm will do "non-lethal damage," but carries a -4 to hit. You fall unconscious after your "non-lethal damage" total exceeds your max HP.

I thought it was vs. "current" HP. So if you have 20 HP max, and take 10 normal damage, then just 11 subdual damage will KO you, either before or after the 10 normal.

No?

(Good to know if we go after that tiger...)
;)

It's current, not max.  If you're already wounded, and someone slaps you about the head, you'll go down faster than someone who hasn't taken any hits at all, assuming equal hit points.

Volsh, mostly the Guildmaster wants to see you attack, see your fighting style and form.  If you just want to give me 4 attack rolls and four (theoretical) damage rolls, that should show your skills.  And describe them, of course.  :)  AC 22.
This message was last edited by the GM at 11:56, Fri 06 June 2014.

Sorry Folks...Found out when I woke up on Weds that I didn't have internet at home.  I work Retail hours so I should be ok for a while.  I'll catch up on posting later today.

Oooh that really burns me when I lose internet, especially for a few days. They won't give you credit for something you aren't getting! ^*<*%$Es!

Glad you are back Narthian!

Ouch - suxor!

Good to see you're back, fellow elf!


Funny you should mention that...

A. had already made the same point, but it was ignored...


So, 2 thoughts -

The first is - would anyone object OOC to inviting the NPC firemage along? (Or, possibly, one of the others along the wall?) IC he's really no diff than (most) any of us, meeting here for the first time. (And he may come w/ a fighter-type, possibly even higher level - tbd.)

As a followup on that, there are basically 2 types of GM's - those who balance the encounter to the party, and those who give fair(?) warning (or not!) and let the party walk to their doom if they so choose. For instance - if we'd gone after the Chuul in the well, that might have been toned down - or it might have been an 11 HD monster, nearly impossible for us as-is.

I was in a game (diff system) where the 3rd level party heard of a troll bridge, and that it was stifling a town's trade - so they went to investigate. And almost suffered a TPW - it was a freakin' TROLL ferpelorsake, what did they expect?! ;D

And I have to say, that I like that better than if the Troll had suddenly and inexplicably (and predictably) become a weakling version of the real thing, and the party had slagged it as easily as anything else they expected to meet.


If there are "dangers", they should be... dangerous. And not "balanced", or at least not predictably and painfully so. If we're going after goblins, there could be a half-dozen or there could ten dozen - and OOC I like that possibility, and IC I think our characters would recognize it. Adding safeguards to our success and splitting any treasure (and, OOC, any XP) by 8 or 9 instead of by 7 (or, if we fail and die, possibly a lot less!) is worth it.


Second - there are a LOT of us posting - 7 PC's plus the GM plus NPC's.  We should all try to make an effort not to let anyone's posts/comments/actions - and especially IC questions or suggestions - go ignored.  An insightful question or clever suggestion might be the difference between success and failure, and similarly with a timely warning to stop someone from making what might be a mistake.

I'm not torqued - game's new, introductions, chaos and bluster, alarms and distractions, np by me - but we should all make the effort. It'll be a bit of a mess at first until we all settle in to the game and each other, but I'm sure we can do it. :)
This message was last edited by the player at 00:12, Sat 07 June 2014.

I second the part about READING ALL POSTS! It gets very annoying when multiple people ask the same question, especially after it has already been answered! We all do it occasionally because we forget and don't read back, but some folks make it a habit!

DM: Character Sheet should be complete. Let me know if you have any questions.

PCs: I have elaborated more on my Character description in "the cast" if y'all wanna check it out.

The same goes for me - if I missed answering one of your questions via an NPC or otherwise, just give me a nudge here or with a PM.

Volsh, character sheet looks all right.

Character Sheet Audit!

[5 blank lines suppressed]

Also, Bruenor, Haazheel - It looks like you're both picking Royalred for your speech color.  You guys want to agree, do a roll off, roshambo, or something to see which one of you picks a differing color?  I would like all the PCs to have their own unique color.

Dang, didn't even notice. Well, Haazheel, shall we settle this like d&d players? ROLL THAT d20.

Purple is the color of magic. ;)

But Drogo already has purple, to be fair.

Well, to be doubly fair, I see very little distinction between "royal red" and "purple" - if they are side by side, maybe, but not in diff posts. :/

Char sheet 99% done, just need to write up background.

Visual description/first impressions updated.

I'm going with grey now then. Someone else can have the purplish color now.

I like the duel, here is my roll dear oppenent ;)

03:23, Today: Haazheel Thorn rolled 19 using 1d20.

We'll, I rolled an 8, so looks like I have to find a new color.

Question, does anyone mind if I were to use the goblin culture from Pathfinder rather than the one from the Monster Manual?  Not changing the stats, just tweaking their standard MO a bit?

Because Pathfinder/Golarion goblin culture is freaking hilarious.

Iduhno. I don't know a thing about pathfinder.
This message was last edited by the player at 13:22, Sun 08 June 2014.

Just because they attack with knives and forks? ;)

Fine by me.

Pathfinder goblins are:

Kinda crazy.  They might throw themselves off of roofs to attack someone, heedless if the might miss and kill themselves.  They might spend a round in combat stealing something from their neighbor, or laughing, or screaming and running in circles, instead of fighting.  They're simultaneously idiotically brave and incredibly cowardly.

They fight dirty (sand in the eyes, tanglefoot bags, wasp nests).

They like fire.  A lot.

They're terrified of dogs and horses.

They ride wolves, giant lizards, or a rodent-like canine called a goblin dog.

They're scared of writing and no goblin will do it.

They sing horrible ditties in battle, or anytime at all.

They have very short attention spans.  "Squirrel!"

They're murderous scum who keep their babies in cages and figure they'll grow up eventually.

And they're eight kinds of hilarity to fight.  :D

In reply to Dungeon Master (msg # 105):

I'm sorry, could you say that again? After a few lines, all I heard was "ORKS ORKS ORKS ORKS WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHH!"

Goblins as escaped lunatics? Sure, go for it. ;)

Question - so no goblin "wizards", and none use scrolls? (Certainly limits the treasure possibilities a small bit.) :/


Oh - and purely OOC, I realized (too late, of course), that "Averdante" is a pain to type every time someone wants to address/refer to my character - so at some point, if someone  wants to start calling him "Av'ry" or "Avery", that totally works, np here. In fact, it would be a favour to all concerned. ;)
This message was last edited by the player at 01:05, Tue 10 June 2014.

Or rather, it is like a walk in the park.  A wet, cold, muddy walk in the park.  :D

How is this reply to that? :P :)

You probably won't see a goblin wizard.  A goblin sorcerer on the other hand, is a possibility, as is a goblin adept or cleric.  Also, they might have picked up magic items elsewhere and be using them as a nose-picker, chamberpot, hat, foot-covering, or piercing.

;-P Yuck!! That's disgusting!!

Hey, I once played a gully dwarf in a Dragonlance game (gully dwarves aren't much of a step up from Pathfinder goblins) and I ended up finding a magic item - a +1 small steel shield.  It had a red rose painted on it, my character was about as dumb as a box of rocks, so he wore it on his head as a hat.

Nobody ever forgot Muggle-Rump Clang, gully dwarf thief, with a battle cry of, "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!"

Ever.

Not even with therapy.  :D

Hey, it kept the sun & rain off, and his head was protected! ;) Too bad it was too late, with an intelligence of 5 or 6, there isn't much to protect.

Can you say "Bag of Holding" and keep a straight face? ;D

Can't wait to find that treasure

All right, looks like the character sheets are all good.

Is it that late already? I thought it was still daylight!

Before everyone departs the scene, there is one point of business that Goldleaf, Thorne and Averdante will want to bring up - IC we're almost ready to return to the table.

Time flies like an arrow Master Archer ;)

Sounds good to me.

I think we should get to Boltharrow, check for the latest intel w/ the locals, get a good night's sleep (or however long, depending), and then...

KILL ALL GOBLINZ!!1111!!! KILLL KILLK ILLK KIILLLL~~~!!!!11111
WAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHGGGHGHGHGGHG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahem - that's what I suggest, anyway. 0:)

Agreed! Especially on the goblins killing part ;)

Excellent!  For the sake of expediency, I'll just fast-forward to the morning and we can be on our merry way.  It may take me a day or so to get the post up; I'm working this weekend.  :)

The 2 elves only need 4 hours "trance", so they can be the alarm clocks for the others, as suggested in my last IC post.

So, it looks like the marching order so far (for the road, at least) is something like...


                ^   (front)   ^

              Farian      Bruenor
            Raymellie    Sedricson

       Averdante    Haazheel    Narthian
                     Thorn      Goldleaf (& wolf)


            <Halfings, on horseback>


                 <-  Volsh  ->



Something like that?

(The path is a road, more than wide enough for 3 abreast, so Haazheel could move up between Avery & Narthian.

Also, I doubt if, IC, a strict "marching order" would be kept with military discipline - some might drop back or push up, or off to one side or another, for a short while to converse or whatever.
This message was last edited by the player at 06:30, Mon 16 June 2014.

That looks pretty good, and when the path narrows, Narthian can move in front or just behind Haazheel.

Yeah, I figure there's going to be a certain amount of shifting about in the normal course of travel, but if, oh say, there happens to be an ambush, or part of the sky falls, or the bulette that's following you burrows up from under the ground at the luscious smell of horseflesh, I just need to know approximately who's where.

You know, for tax purposes.

:D

I won't be as active today as I usually am, as I am attending an important event. Sorry fellas.

Sorry for my lack of posting. Been busy with tasks around the house and wifey not letting me on computer much. I was having a hard time getting caught up with all the posts.

Ahhh, we see who wears the pants in the family! What size dress you wear Drogo? ;)

It's true. My wife wears the pants in the family. I just want a quite life and let her have her way. I let her have all the stress though. lol.

Boy, it sure is boring around here!

Weekends ALWAYS are, sometimes the week isn't much busier in some games. At least we're chugging along! ;) I'm sure it will pick up starting tomorrow afternoon at the latest.

Or immediately...

Just me ;) And the DM.

Yar.  I have a really weird schedule, so sometimes you'll see me post multiple times a day, sometimes it'll be a day-ish between posts.  I work 12-hour shifts, 6pm-6am, and I don't have internet access at work (I work at a factory and I don't have any of those new-fangled smart phones/tablets/thingies).  I do this two days on, two days off schedule so I waffle between no time to post to all the time to post.

But I don't stop.  Even if I'm slow, I don't stop.  Like a turtle!  :D

I apologize for absence - unusual RL explosion Wednesday took me out until last night, and spent most of today recovering.

Back to usual posting now.

Ouch, that's an ugly schedule!! Where you work? I worked in factories for years, Ingersoll-Rand for 12 years building road machinery and 2 more at Manitowoc Crane building on their National Crane line, as well as a few others.

I've been doing that schedule for 8 years now, so I'm used to it.  :)

I work at Alcoa, an aluminum rolling mill.  My particular department makes the skin of airplanes, also car hoods and trunks, tanker trailer metal, metal for boats, trains, and semi trucks in general.  Also treadplate/diamondplate.  If you've flown in an aircraft owned by a western country, Aloca has aluminum in it.

Hey guys, I'm building a campaign world for a irl game I'm working on. I wanted your guys opinions; please be gentle, as I have relatively little experience compared to most dungeon masters, but everyone starts somewhere.

100-300 years before the start of the campaign (not sure yet) marked the end of a huge war between the allied races and a mind flayer insurgence the likes of which has never been seen before in recorded history. The mind flayers had enslaved almost the entirety of the goblinoid and orcoid races, using them as foot soldiers in their systematic conquest of the known world. One of the first targets of their ire were the Drow, who despite heavy resistance were pushed out of their empire, forcing them to flee to the surface. There, they joined with an alliance of the three major races, humans, dwarfs, and elves, as well as a large collaboration of undead. Through the combined efforts of the Allied races, the orcoid and goblinoid thralls were wiped out nearly to a man, the mind flayers were repelled and their largest cities were razed, albeit at great costs.

Now, after many decades of recovery and reconstruction, the world is a different place. Humans have, as they always have, adapted, expanded, and been one of the most varied and contradictory races. The Dwarven traditions of isolation have only become more pronounced, the durable race having suffered the greatest losses in the initial "landfall" of the subterranean invaders. The surface elves bore the fewest casualties of the surface races, and in the wake of the invasion have studied the secrets of psionics wielded by the enemy. However, no race has flourished in these circumstances as much as the undead; immune to the main tactics of the illithids, the undead forces were pivotal to the allied races' victory.

This is what I have in so far to basic world building. There are other important races to note, but I didn't want to front load to much.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:19, Mon 23 June 2014.

Why would living beings, humans, elves, Dwarves, and even the Drow, deal with undead?

In my campaign setting, while the action of creating undead is still considered evil/vile/crimes against nature, and while undead are drawn toward an evil alignment, they are not inherently evil. In a way somewhat similar to dark souls, they are more easily corrupted by evil, and their mindsets are very different to mortal creatures, but they can still be function as non-evil, at least that is the perception. Additionally, undead as a whole, even intelligent ones, are immune to mind-affecting abilities, making them indispensable against the mind flayers and their yuan-ti allies.

Another case of strange bed-fellows in my campaign history is that, although they never negotiated or were even aware of it, the allied races and the Aboleths were allies in the war; Aboleths fear and distrust mind flayers, and so opposed the creatures on principle. The distraction of the Aboleths in the Underdark helped divide the focus of the illithid forces.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:59, Mon 23 June 2014.

It's an interesting premise, and definitely allows for some unique heroes, backgrounds, and villains.

I once did something similar, where dragons had taken over everything and the main forms of resistance were the races of the Underdark, Underwave, and the halflings, who were still slaves, but traveled to transport goods to other slave races.

Anywho, the other question about the undead becoming very prominent is the worry about food.  Ghouls, ghasts, vampires (and, if you're using them, bone drinkers, soul eaters, etc.) have very unsavory dining habits that would seem to eventually encroach upon human/dwarf/elf habitation.

How do you keep a passel of ghasts, ghouls, and vampires about without the question of them supping upon mortals coming up?  Because that's the first thing that leaps to mind.  I'd be very nervous if I, as a telepath elf, looked next door at the vampire kingdom and went, "Well, I am an expert in my field, and can bring down any living mind with my power.  And I can't do a bloody thing about the vampire kingdom next door.  This could be problematic."

I will have to do some planning here, but right now the idea is that vampires, at least, are sustained through livestock, in both senses of the word, as well as donations of blood. As for ghouls and ghasts, only a few if them joined the original collab of undead that allies themselves with the living, so there are relatively few of them. More thought is required on the subject.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:37, Mon 23 June 2014.

Okay, I am going to use my overdeity DM-powers to hand-wave the vampires' craving for life energy, making them only require blood. As for Ghasts and Ghouls, they don't require LIVING flesh, just flesh.

So how I see the undeads' participation in the war is something like this, please critique. The majority of the undead forces were mindless undead (zombies, skeletons), and the few ghouls and ghasts almost never held command positions, and those they did hold were field command rather than strategic. Liches, vampires, vampire spawn, and a small number of mummies made up the vast majority of the upper levels of command, as well as a very small number of non-undead necromancers. Most of the other forms of undead (wights, incorporeals, and most other dangerous sorts) were created by necromancers as shock-troops, war-beasts, and other such roles. One thing I want to make clear is that the undead who allied themselves with the rest of the allied races are not even a majority of all the undead in the world; they are simply those few intelligent undead who were willing to help and anything they could sway to their side or outright control.

After the war, the undead were granted a large section of the land to found their own nation, for those that wanted to stick around, or were free to return to their own haunts. However, any undead that is deemed a danger to society is hunted down like any other criminal, and undead capable of creating spawn are responsible for the actions thereof.

Also, if there is any other aspect of my setting that you want to critique, want more information, or have suggestions about feel free to do so; I'm still building this world and am asking for assistance as much as I am sharing my ideas. I don't even know how I want to handle the drow.

An experienced "Game Master" is more about the story than the game. Knowing the mechanics and being the coordinator is important, but at some point the game flows - and then all that's left is the story.  And the best GM's either know the story they want to tell in advance, or (even better) have a starting point and a general/ultimate direction, but know how to mold the details as the overall storyarc develops.

So while backstory is all well and good, unless it plays an important part in the Player Characters' story, it can often get in the way.

Another way of saying this - many new DM's plan out a city in great detail, with elaborate locations and important personalities and story hooks for great adventures, only to have the PC's decide to turn left and go have an adventure in the forest.  Doing the same with your world is doing the same on a diff scale.

If the undead and the ilithids and all the rest are central to the story, great. But if they're just window-dressing... lose them, and streamline the story, and focus on the elements that matter to the PC's.

(Also, potentially having liches and underdark thugs and such as "allies" might mean that the PC's will be relatively underpowered and overshadowed by NPC's - never fun for the players. The PC's should be some of THE most powerful characters in any scene, next to the BBEG's.)


I also worry that you are raising more questions than needed - over-plotting, which will slow the game down by making the PC's worry and think about things that are not central to any story.

It could work, but as a first effort... you're trying to juggle 7 balls at once - 2-3 is the usual recommended starting number, and that's hard enough.  ;)


Also, not clear what the starting level is (sounds HIGH), but you could strip it down to a couple elements and still have fun with it. Maybe something like...

o  Undead have an (uneasy?) truce w/ the living - cool. Not everyone accepts, but "the kingdom" does, by law, so that's that.

o Meanhwile, the Orcs/etc. are acting odd, being more organized than normal.  Investigation eventually reveals...

o Mindflayers (which are REARLLY tough, btw - if played intelligently (remember: Int 20+++!), they are one of THE toughest monsters in the book.

And... that's MORE than enough to start. All the rest... put that baggage back in the garage, the car's full for this trip.



We could almost start another thread on this, that's a LOT to talk about as is... and that's "basic world building", you haven't even go to the story yet?! ;D


So, let's talk the true "basics" - how long do you hope to run this campaign, and what is the starting level?

Wow, nice reposte wall-of-text, Averdante. Tough love usually the best method, so I'll give my best to fully lay out what I'm thinking.

Firstly, this is not the time period our adventures will be taking place in, rather this is the most important event in "recent history" that sets up why my world is the way it is. I call it basic simply because it establishes the background of both the campaign setting itself and the general mindsets of the people that live within.

Secondly, this game is really more of a proof of concept/side activity that I'm doing to try to have some fun with someone who has shown genuine interest. Establishing this world was meant as a way for me to use some ideas that had recently been buzzing around in my head.

Finally, I currently have little in the way of where I want the story to go; I could have them fight mind flayers later on, or I could turn the end game into something completely different, but I don't anticipate this game running for too long, just as something fun.



To answer these questions,
1. I don't expect this particular run to last overly long, but there is a lot I could do with the setting to perhaps recycle it with a larger, more experienced group and really explore it.
2. I think we are starting at about level 2, but we have a smaller-than-average party of 3
This message was last edited by the player at 03:04, Tue 24 June 2014.

Then almost anything you have as "game world" is irrelevant to the story itself and for background color only, since the PC's are (in comparison) so tiny that they won't be dealing with any of it directly.  Doesn't matter how big the entire army is if the story is going to involve only the struggles of a few soldiers.


(In the gaming circles I used to run in, there was a rule - you don't name a character until 3rd level - simply because until then, they could die too easily. If you wanted to start them at 3rd, you'd solve that problem, let them start slightly more interesting/robust characters, and get into more interesting encounters right away! ymmv.)

That is fine. The background, the stage for the campaign, the world I built for my story to evolve in was what I wanted critiqued. I looked here as much for review as I did for inspiration, and talking with you gave me more ideas than an afternoon's brainstorming. For that I thank you

As for starting level, one of my players is brand spanking new, so this 2nd-3rd level gap could be a place for her to perhaps learn about how to play.

K, we'll assume you can chew what you're biting off... ;)

What you're describing is a cross between a True Blood world (where vampires co-exist w/ humans, on one level or another) and something like Army of Darkness, where the Deadites are "out there somewhere" in the badlands, and as a rule "we" don't interact with "them" but sometimes troublemakers from one side or another get "pushy".

Not everyone (on either side) is going to be 100% comfortable w/ this state of affairs. For every Lich or Vampire Lord that schemes of enslaving living-kind, there will be a radical paladin or cleric who dreams of wiping the undead blight from the face of the earth. The "peace" might be an uneasy one, and how "the powers that be" on both sides deal with their own rebels could vary (and vary between officially/publicly and unofficially/privately).


I am a bit at a loss as to why the Undead care whether or not the Mindflayers enslave humanity, except perhaps as one predator being territorial when faced with another of a diff species. Undead themselves are not threatened directly themselves by Mindflayers, but I suppose their "lifestyle" could be threatened if all humanity were domesticated and taken out of their food chain. Still, and again - an uneasy alliance.

Absolutely, that is the current state of affairs boiled down to its simplest form.

AS to why the undead would actually care...part of it was about the threat to their lifestyles, and part of it was about those intelligent undead who are actively trying to, in part, recapture the feeling of life, those few remaining echos of mortality and kinship, attempting to save what they saw as the last anchor they had to what they once were.

All sapient beings that have even a vague resemblance to human thought patterns tend to become emotionally attached and illogically protective of things that realistically don't have even a shadow of the value they are given.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:16, Tue 24 June 2014.

And I think, perhaps, as interesting as this discussion is, it may be better served in the General forum, and leave this thread for game-related OOC chatter.  :)  You're getting quite detailed, and I don't want questions related to the game getting lost in the ripostes.

Or start a PM thread - but not in this game, use the "R-mail" link (top right), unless the GM wants to get a bump every time anyone in the thread posts. ;)

Thank you for that last Av!

Actually, I think I'm good for now. I must thank you all, especially Averdante, for your help in the evolution of my campaign world. Also, I feel I must apologize for such a massive detour from the intended purpose of these forums; my sincerest apologies.

:P bum!!! :)

<voice-over>

...We return you now to our regularly scheduled OOC massive detours from the intended purpose of these forums...

Golly, can't this old man respond to our questions any faster?  Geez, Mayor Harrow, get the lead out and lay the story down so we can do kick some goblin hindquaraters.

Who's running this show anyways?

Oh.

That would be me.

:D

Hey Dungeon Master,

I had a quick question; what are the rules for deploying and recovering caltrops? I couldn't find them anywhere.

I have it here in my PHB, but...

o http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equi...ervices.htm#caltrops
o http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/SRD:Caltrops

(I think both are the same - if not, use the first. Both are included for additional reference.)

But I can't find where it says how long it takes to scatter them.

Since they only cover 25² feet, my guess is 1 round.
This message was last edited by the player at 13:20, Wed 02 July 2014.

Yes, one round to deploy.

And let us say one minute to gather them up, provided they didn't all stick in someone's feet.

Fair enough.

I find it weird that there is no official ruling.

I thought the ruling was that a careful placement gave a better % than a quick "scatter", but that may easily be from a diff game.

It's probably a throw-away line in one of the sections on Standard Actions (or possibly(?) one that used to be there (in AD&D? 3.0?), but got lost somewhere in the upgrade.

---

On another note, planning for the goblins... my thought is that a quick OOC hashing would be quicker than IC, and we can cover the key points IC for continuity/etc.  (OOC thoughts may not reflect a character, but together all these points would come out sooner or later, so whether it's Averdante or someone else, better sooner than later.)

(And, yes, this is "long" - it'd be easier face-to-face, but sadly we don't have that option. Don't read if you aren't interested in the planning, and others will let you know once it's done.)

But being pro-active  (i.e. "have some plan") is almost always superior to being merely re-active (i.e. "just walk forward in formation and see what happens"). ;)


My (ooc) thoughts - and everyone is welcome to chime in. I believe in an open brainstorm - there are no "bad" ideas except that will make better ideas more obviously attractive.

o Goblins - General

> We don't want to be there at night. Whatever we do, we are done and on the move in ~10 hours tops - back to Boltharrow in the light, no "dusk" this time.

> I believe that intell allows for a better plan than pushing forward and reacting to whatever they have planned. That is, our quiet(er) characters should scout first. (This could be done largely in narrative, rather than as a detailed "side adventure", so the players of non-sneaky PC's don't have to twiddle their thumbs for a week.)

> This might(?) mean that we gather info, and only then our casters choose their daily spells to a specific plan, or waiting an additional day before trying the plan (either falling WELL back or all the way to Boltharrow).

> We should assume the goblins have some sort of defense plan, and are not just sitting in a convenient tight group waiting for the first fireball that wanders by to take them out. Also that they won't simply flood to the first target, that the Shaman(?) has something slightly(?) more complicated than "All goblinz charge!" in the play book.

> A large number of gobbos will probably charge the first thing they see - even if they have a more complex plan, I think that's a safe bet. So area-effect spells and/or a distraction may be a good plan.

> Another possibility is to hit them for all sides at once (or "close to" all at once, delayed), but being able to fall back if outnumbered. If one of us can run and have 10 goblins chase them (but NOT get caught!), that's a tactical advantage for the rest of our group.

o We know about the wolves - if the druid can neutralize them, that might give us a huge edge. But while that is attractive, it might(?) take more spells than it's worth. Simply moving in from downwind might be ample.

> From the description they aren't trained, so if let out of their cages they could either attack us or the nearest goblins, or just run - I don't think that's a threat, or at worst it's a wildcard for all concerned. 

o The Shaman

> He (she?)... meh, it has to be a primary target for missiles, spells and even a charge by the entire party*.  The sooner we take its magic out of the equation, the easier (and longer!) our lives will be.

(* We should not get separated - goblins WILL try to flank/dogpile anyone they catch separated!)

> We have to stay spread out, and/or have someone "in reserve" to help any who get enspelled. Sleep, Web, anything where an unaffected PC can help negate the effect.

> Also - what exactly is it, or could be? Those with Kn:Arcane, Kn:Religion and/or Kn:Local ("humanoids") (whatever is/are approp for Goblins/shamans/tribal casters/etc.) should make rolls, so IC we have a better idea what we might be facing. (Shaman, Adept, Sorcerer, even Cleric (of some stripe?) are most likely - it's been said that gobbos in this world don't like the written word, so Wizards are not likely.)

> We have to assume it'll have a bodyguard, but that will keep those "elite goblins" (normally an oxymoron, but we're 1st level, so anything larger than a mouse is a threat) out of the combat at first.

> The Shaman probably has something dark going on in The Temple. This might be a surprise during the combat, or something we will deal with after the dust clears - or not at all, depending.

o Hors(es)/dogs

> Big edge, but big liability too. We don't want noise unless/until we are ready for a fight. But bringing the horse in a few moments AFTER the combat begins could break their charge nicely.

> The more confusion we can cause with horses/dogs, the better, and the cheaper in terms of our hit points/lives.

> Option: We could buy a dog (or more than 1) in town (or even borrow a horse or mule). I bet our Druid has Animal Handling, and/or some spells to keep him well-behaved. Sending a single dog to attack the shaman could keep those spells and nearby gobbos busy for a couple rounds.

---

At the moment (just to toss out something as a starting place), I'm leaning toward something like this...

1) Move with Forrester as a guide toward temple. Quiet(er) characters scout.

2) Spellcasters memorize spells to fit the situation.*

(* Our spell-casters are our Wizard, Cleric, Druid and Sorcerer (guessing the Pali is not Lvl 4(+). The sorcerer is locked - the rest ~could~ leave (some) slots open and memorize spells as-needed once we know more, but that would leave us without any spells (except the sorcerer's, or general-use spells) if we run into bad luck.

The alternative is to fall back to Boltharrow and lose an entire day, and ~possibly~ alert the gobbos to the fact that someone has been snooping - I'd rather not take that risk.

They may feel there are some "all-purpose" spells that they can prepare in advance, so we're not naked, or that "these are the best I have" - but if we're going with any tricky plan, specific spells may be called for.)


3) Someone distracts the goblins and lures a bunch off. 30' pace > 20'.
3.1) Possibly a 2nd distraction, and/or lure into ambush by main body, #4.

4) The main force attacks. The goblins respond. Location of shaman should be known by now.
4.1) spells/missiles target Shaman.

5) Sir Aberlayne (who had been holding in reserve) appears on horseback and disrupts goblin footsoldiers or any surprise flanking/reinforcements. Attack is pressed home.

Obviously, tactical details may change all this, but that's a ballpark starting point.

Note that atm, one of our best weapon (besides the horse?) is the Sorcerer's many(!) Burning Hands spells - it's a nice area of effect but centered from in front of the caster, so we want to 1) funnel/lure as many goblins as possible into that while 2) protecting him.

(I'm hoping our Wizard can be more "battlefield control" - tactical use of spells rather than just trying to do damage - but those details remain to be seen.)

We also need a plan and rally point if we have to retreat, a plan for pursuit if the Shaman escapes, and a (ballpark) plan for rescue if something goes terribly wrong and someone gets trapped.

Note - "no plan survives contact with the enemy" - true enough, BUT it's also true that having a plan gives everyone a common starting point and shared goal, which is better than not.

Q - may be too late, but any chance there are scrolls to be bought/borrowed in town? Even a single CLW might be the diff.


My biggest concerns are (in rough order)...

1) We group too tight and get enspelled - need to be spread out, but still defensive until shaman is neutralized. Sleep, entangle, etc.

(Note - This is fine, even desirable once the shaman is out of the equation, but until then it's setting ourselves up for punishment.)

2) Shaman has 2nd level spells - Darkness (1st Lvl Light won't help), Invisibility, Web, Silence (vs. our Casters), etc. (IC, we can consult our casters for these possibilities.)

3) Goblins have traped their compound - camouflaged pit traps, trip wires, snares, noise makers, magical Fire Trap - all distinct possibilities (the crafty li'l buggers).

4) Goblin/X-race ally - hobgoblin(s), ogre - a heavy hitter that will distract our focus from shaman.

5) 2 goblin casters, of some sort(s). Bonus. A distinct possibility, esp if this is more than just some random gobbos.

This message was last edited by the player at 21:31, Wed 02 July 2014.

As a cleric against 30+ goblins, I'm going to assume my spells are ALL going to be CLW regardless of what I remember, Bless and Magic Weapon?

Yeah, good point - but the right Domain spell might be more useful to avoid damage in the first place (depending what FR's domains are) - is he sharing that info?

Domain spell is CLW ;)

An idea I had was, and this may be a bad idea, we could try to lure out some of the goblins, run them into the forest, surround them, and eliminate...

For example, we could have the druid's wolf (plus the druid himself if he is willing) get their attention, before fleeing back into the forest. Once they reach a certain point, two stealthy characters toss some caltrops back the way they came, creating a 30-foot long barrier. From there, archers could open fire into the group before melee rushes in. Then, we simply turn the formation around, with the ranged support holding behind the caltrops with a guard, while the rest of our forces move to engage

This is a rough idea, what do you think?
This message was last edited by the player at 00:20, Thu 03 July 2014.

I do like it, at least part of it - gobbos should have a "kill, Kill, KILL!" mentality - and chase anything that runs. If we hit them with part of our group, look like we're weak and flee, and lead them into an ambush, maybe even a prepared killzone of our own with simple traps and such - that could work.

(caltrops slow targets down (and do 1 pt of damage) - gobbos already move only 20', so 1/2 of that and any affected are toast.)


The obvious flaw is two-fold: 1) if the Shaman has tighter control on them than the typical no-thought goblin horde, and they only chase a bit, then we're worse than we started. And either way, 2), we're likely giving away any surprise for those remaining, inc. the Shaman.

But I'm thinking that if we do it right, maybe look wounded, really put a big carrot out there for them, something they just can't resist chasing, and then come back hard and fast... maybe... :?do

Do you have a map of the target DM?

I don't have a map at present, but I can whip together some really horrible MS Paint monstrosity sometime this weekend.  Or find something drawn by someone more talented than me and scan it in.

But for a rough mental map, the ruins stretch for almost three hundred feet in a relatively clear rough circle in the forest.  In the middle is a fifty-foot square temple ruin about 20 ft. tall.  It's not totally intact, but has a roof.  Around the temple, at regular intervals, are low, collapsed walls and pillars.  Ten foot wide paths that may have been roads radiate out at five separate points, like the rays of the sun, providing some approaches that aren't uneven terrain.

---

The most likely classes for a goblin shaman are sorcerer, cleric, adapt, or possibly bard.

My plan with the caltrops was that they are more for denial of mobility and to prevent charges later than actual lasting damage. A gobburi that moves up to the caltrops is: still in melee range, incurs an attack of opportunity when it tries to pass, and cannot runaway quickly.

Essentially, the caltrops force the goblins to take two rounds to get past the position and incur multiple AoO. Additionally, I would like to point out that it doesn't matter if they are moving 20 ft. per move action, a double move is faster than a single move by our party, and if they run, they most likely move 80 ft, something we can't afford if we are otherwise occupied.

However, on a different subject, are we willing to risk a lure-and-trap strategy? And could scouting determine, very roughly, the organization of the group? it occurs to me that a gabburi shaman is still a gabburi, one likely prone to zealous fanatacism, and also one who is likely to say "GO KILL IT!"
This message was last edited by the player at 13:34, Thu 03 July 2014.

Hey guys, sorry for the silence, I have been overwhelmed by work this week. I have been reading everything posted in case of emergency. Anyway, I'm back now. I like the strategy proposed. For the spells here are the one I know:

0th - acid splash, arcane mark, dancing lights, detect magic, detect poison, flare, ghost sound, light, mage hand, mending, message, open/close, prestidigitation, ray of frost, read magic, resistance

1st - burning hands, color spray, grease, mage armor, magic missile, summon monster 1

Haazheel can prepare 3 level 0 and 3 level 1.

Proposed list:
0th - light, detect magic, acid splash
1st - summon monster 1, color spray, burning hands

I like your proposals. Color Spray can drop two or three if we get lucky, and SM-1 can maybe give us that edge we need!

Agreed, good choices.

I didn't read the ooc posts before posting ic,  I got no problem playing bait but I think it should be more than one of us to draw more of them out and into the trap.

Is Drogo on vacation? Or has he bailed?

No idea.
:/

---

I think the Plan is looking something like this:

We sneak in close as a single group, say "thanks" to Forrester, and use familiar as aerial recon and to take out outer sentries.  Then we split into 2 - something like...

<Group 1: main body> Bruenor, Volsh, Farian, Dellas
<reserve> with Drogo behind & Sir A on horseback further yet.

<Group 2: diversion> Aver'e, Narthian & wolf, Hazheel (& a dog?*)

(* problem is that dogs bark. Narthian has animal handling, but I'd rather he have his bow working early. Thoughts?) :/

Group 2 has no heavy armour, so is quieter - Aver'e moves up and shoots a few likely targets, possibly supported by Narthian's bow. They fall back to where the wolf guards Hazheel, and form a defensive line there, using Entangle to lock down gobbos while Hazheel opens up with Color Spray.  Once clear, they push back up toward temple...

Meanwhile, Group 1, further away, waits for the commotion as their signal to move forward (maybe not from the "other" side of the temple, but a bit across the compound.) Drogo is behind w/ missiles and to not be in any AoE spell area, to flank goblins, and to help anyone who gets spelled.

Sir A waits a bit until that combat is started (or shouts of "Now!", or whatever), and charges in w/ horse to break up goblins' response to that direction.

All parties push toward Temple from their directions, concentrating on shaman as much as possible.

Ya?


I'd suggest dropping Acid Splash for Ghost Sound - might be perfect for distracting guards as we approach, or making the sound of a barking dog during the main battle, and "tricksiness" is better than a little damage imo.

(Light - maybe, maybe not. If the temple is pitch black, it would indeed be a pain to have to light lanterns/torches - otoh, we need to guarantee that we get that far in the first place.  Might Dancing Lights be almost as good and also serve double duty sim to Ghost Sound? If we are in hot pursuit it's still 1 min of multiple "torches" (v. 10 min of 1 torch equiv), and that's only needed if it is truly pitch black. If it's a more complex situation, we light multiple torches/lanterns and do it old-school.

Or even a 2nd Ghost Sound, since we aren't sure if we'll need light, but a barking dog could be real handy.

Or not - it's a judgement call, no doubt.)

Also, re Detect Magic - that's for mopping up, spotting magical loot after the battle is over, and I'm all in favor of someone having it. But I don't think it should be the wizard. We have a Cleric (who may not use all their orisons), but also (hopefully?) the Sorcerer. I think another "tricky" spell is far more important and potentially critical.


The problem with Summon Monster is that it only lasts 1 round/level - so at 1st level, that's a just blip on the tactical map.  The creature's attack isn't that reliable, and 1 round of flanking is only a couple goblins who may or may not have died anyway. I would say a 2nd Color Spray would be far superior - area of effect, multiple opponents out of the combat - money spell.

And Burning Hands - Dellas already has that ("fire sorcerer") the AoE is the same as Color Spray, and the diff is a little damage vs. unconscious and blind and stunned - which is to say, none is runnin', and none is still fightin' - dey all dead. More, I'd rather see a goblin try to make a Will ST than a Reflex. ;)


I'm all for diversity and options and having a spell for every contingency, but in this case, against massed goblins, I would say 2 Color Sprays, then either stay on offense and take Grease (as your Conjuration spell), or take care of yourself and bring Mage Armour. Gotta believe the goblins will have bows or javelins, and one lucky toss could drop our wizard , which also takes our cleric out for 1 turn - not good.


So, I'd suggest something like...

0 - Ghost Sound
0 - Ghost Sound
0 - Dancing Lights/Light

1 - Color Spray
1 - Color Spray
1 - Mage Armour (or Grease?)

You are The Wizard - bring the juice.


So the Cleric has, as orisons, Light and 2x DM, saving one DM for last to swap to CMW only if needed. (For Level 1, Bless would be the only really useful spell, but I don't think we'd want to risk using that before the combat and NOT having 3 CLW's.)  :/

And if Dellas has DM, then that's his job.

We'll said, Aver. My original ontention was never to split our forces in order to excute the trap, but this plan lses sound now that the entirety is pulled together.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:18, Thu 03 July 2014.

thx.

On a related note, we are just not strong enough to stop all routes of escape. If we tried, someone would get over-run, and some goblins would still escape, but we'd lose members as well.

Hopefully the 2 directions will cause enough chaos for "their" defense plan to be tested, and hopefully fail.

We still have the challenge of getting damage TO the shaman, dealing with the spells he does get off, and avoiding any possible defensive traps.

I suggest being aware of where the goblins run/move, and not charging "straight" toward the temple if there seem to be "no go" areas.

(Same w/ the forest paths leading to the temple area - a pitfall could remove half the party from the combat, and a simple tripwire could loose something unpleasant and our cleric would be busy before the battle starts. Use some caution and craftiness, put a good Spot/Search up in front, or a good Wis/Int if nothing else. :/

---

Note to not forget: Hazheel can set out some caltrops to guard his flanks - use sticks in the ground to mark the areas for when Narthian/Aver'e return.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:47, Thu 03 July 2014.

I realized that there was little chance we could completely clear the goblins. It was simply unrealistic. However, if we can cull there numbers, and eliminate the leader, that would go a long way towards solving the problem; the goblins would be scattered, and would not likely return if we whip them hard enough.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:14, Thu 03 July 2014.

Sorry I been out of action. I been doing a big job in my back garden. First I tore down a shed. Then I am starting to put fencing up. All this by myself. No help at all. Proper wearing me out. Every time I had a moment I get sidetracked to do something else.

\o/

NP, RL happens - just starting to worry.

Any thoughts on the plan as it stands?


Brother, 4 days later? 2 words: bran muffins.
;D

Thanks Avery for your thoughts on the spells, I think I will follow the composition you proposed (no celestial badger this time ;_; ).
Light 10 min dancing lights 1min, still hesitating...
I don't have any caltrops, DM could I buy some in this town?

Sounds like you got a Honey Do list! ;)

The plan sounds good to me.

The blacksmith can knock you some caltrops together by twisting a couple of nails up, no problem.

Narthian pays much more attention then I do it seems. :)

So are we going with the me as bait plan?  To draw as many of then to y'all as possible?

No. Two groups with Volsh leading party 2 by few hundred feet and calling out a LOUD challenge to the goblins, then hitting them with two groups, goblins in the middle.

I prepared two ghost sound spells so we can also lure them with some barking noises.

Well, the whole "lure" thing has shifted from our group to Volsh and his backup,which is safer for us.

I think the best use of those now is either to distract any sentries we might run into (with something less than a "bark", something quieter so only they hear it, and so we can divert their attention while we ambush them), or (better w/ only 25' range?) as a bluff ("dogs are coming!") if we 3 find ourselves with too many charging us.   Or possibly as a final confusing addition if we can close with the shaman, so he doesn't know which way to run/defend.

I believe I know your plan, but quick question, aside from Mystique (Haazheel's owl familiar) was there going to be any additional scouting before Volsh swaggers in?

I say no. I'm speaking for me though.

I'm already carrying two bags myself.

Aver'e (and Drogo?) are the only "stealth" in the party - and it was deemed too risky.

Aver'e'd be willing to do some - esp down one path to clear the way to help get the "non-stealth" close enough to enact the plan without having to fight thru any sentries - but he doesn't feel competent enough to do any deep recon, and any intell we gather is at the risk of tipping our hand and alerting the gobbos that someone is probing them.

Tomorrow, we move to a new thread:

The Ruins and Goblin Camp!

After I get off of work, sleep, and compose a good post.  :)

Sorry y'all. I have had a family emergency. I will be back online tomorrow or Saturday. Sorry for the short notice. Please forgive me. :)

I had been afk a while myself, but back now - goblinward!

Sorry guys for the silence, I had a problem here which kept me away from the game, I'm right in time for the battle. Need a spell? call the wizard ;)
This message was last edited by the player at 00:56, Sun 20 July 2014.

In all honesty, this was perhaps one of the greatest examples of strange coincidence I've ever seen.

And Farian, what are you doing with this glorious 8 Initiative?  Attacking?  Yodeling?  Making a grand speech?

PbP games being what they are, give me not just an initiative roll, but also a couple plans of action.

For example:



That way if things change, I at least have an idea of what you might do and can move the game along an a decent pace.

Hey all... I just now realized I do not know how exactly to apply my die roll from the die roller mechanism to a particular post. I have never used a die roller on this forum. please help!!!

Do I roll the intended action first and then copy and paste it to my post?
Or do I begin to post a reply and use the die roller from there. Sorry for any nuisance this may cause, I just want to make sure I get it right.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Roll then copy & paste to your post.

Awesome thanks!

Map showing where we are in correlation to each other and also the goblins we see?

Didn't mean to pre-empt spell-usage, but I gathered that stealth was at a premium and you didn't want the goblins starting a ruckus too soon on the Northeast side.

I'll work on the map, and have it up later tonight.  But in short, Volsh, Bruenor, Farian, and Dellas are at the Southeast road, and the fireplace therein, where as Avertante, Haazheel, Narthian, and Thunder are on the Northeast road.

Sir Aberlayne and Drogo are further back along the Southeast road.

As for the number of goblins - many.  }:-)

Yes, but half a score fewer in number now! :-)

Apparently I totally fail at MS Paint.

I attempted to alter the map with new information and every time I uploaded the altered copy, none of the new information showed up.  I am not going to attempt it 15 times, nor do I really want to remake the whole damn map every single time.

So, we're just going to have to use our imaginations.

Northeast road, by the L-shaped wall, that's Group 2 - Averdante, Narthian, Thunder, and Haazheel.  To your west there is the road, then there are several fallen columns.  Behind the first of the fallen columns are 7 goblins.  They are with 20 feet of you.  On their turn, several will be charging and/or throwing things.

Southeast road, by the L-shaped wall, that's Group 1, Volsh, Bruenor, Farian, and Dellas.  Further south of that L-shaped wall is a short fallen column.  There are 3 goblins behind there, about 30 feet away.  Further west, across the south road, there is another fallen column with 4 goblins behind it, about a total of 50 feet from you.  On their turn, several will be charging and/or throwing things.

There is one goblin in front of the temple by the fireplace there.  There is also the cage of the goblin young there.

You cannot see behind the temple.  There are supposed to be 4 wolves back there.

That leaves 5 goblins unaccounted for.

Sir Aberlayne and Drogo are about 60 feet further back behind Group 1, and charging in.

LOL, my imagination isn't what it used to be, but I guess we'll manage! :) Time to kick some butt!!

Hey all, I'm on vacation from the 1st to the 4th.

Let me know exactly what you're going to do as the goblins whip up their courage to charge and cause mayhem.  Don't be afraid, when you do your actions, to do multiple options in case something changes.

LOL Bruenor, they're quaking down to the soles of their feet!

I know, right?

In all seriousness, that was kinda depressing.

I wouldn't have cared if I had simply failed, but a one? Seriously?
This message was last edited by the player at 15:40, Fri 01 Aug 2014.

You have to Save it as a new file (with a new, significant name) to your computer (on the desktop is always handy if you use Save As), and then upload that, again w/ a new name.

Ediit - looks like you did all that - I'm seeing the "Group 0 Map" as changed appropriately. Maybe you needed to force a refresh on your broswer? (either ctl+F5 or shift+F5, forget which).



Wow - glad I didn't just trust my imagination!  I had far more faith in the owl's recon (that these 7 goblins kinda appeared unexpected, since I didn't think we had made much noise compared to the others), and thought the scale was bigger.

Okay...

Spoken like a true cleric.
;D

:P I like the way you take stuff out of context and edit it for your own purposes, you must be a politician! ;)

Please do note, all speech does require quote when speaking.

Also, all actions that you specifically take, you roll for.  If you're going to try to attack, I want to see an attack and damage roll at the end of your post.  That saves me an immense amount of time when doing a combat post.

O.O

...um...

LOL - that's actually pretty funny.  It may kill some or all of Group B, but it's still pretty funny. ;D


And that ~had~ been part of the plan as we discussed it above...


Yeah, whenever you're outside, Entangle is pro'ly THE best Lvl 1 combat spell a Druid can have.  Entangle could minimize a group of wolves far better than Charm Animal, and is far more versatile. We needed to be prepared for the enemy we ~knew~ we'd face first before worrying about something we might or might not later.

But that's why we're Level 1, right? ;)

I had understood the wolves to be more of an early-warning system than a military ally - I got the feeling that if let out of their cages, they'd be more likely to attack the goblins or just run away.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:04, Thu 07 Aug 2014.

*headdesk*

Okay, I just had about three things IRL hit the fan simultaneously.  I apologize for the slow pace - I shall update once the shitstorm has subsided.

I don't have any complaints. I'm havin' fun, so no worries over here.

Don't worry about it, I was out of town visiting my friends the past few days (Gotta get one last get-together in before college starts and we can't make the trip). In the future, I'll be better about saying as much, I just forgot in the excitement. However, no harm done.

Sup with the shitnado?

All right, I think I'm slowly wrangling things under control.  If all goes well tonight, I should start being able to post on Monday again.

And there was much rejoicing.

\o/ ^yay! _yay! ^yay!

...Or make that later tonight.

For reals this time.

I swear.

:D

Cool ^^

Glad to hear from you, and I hope those rough seas smooth out soon.

I updated my post with my attack/damage rolls.
Hope also that the fact your are updating the story means you are sailing now in calm water :)

And then I was going to do this earlier tonight.  It wasn't even 9 o'clock yet, and I was feeling quite alert and ready... and then my Internet went out for reasons unknown.

Stupid Internet provider.

Probably they were just doing some upgrade thing, but when they go and do it at night on days I'm off, for me that's like it going out in the middle of the day (as I am nocturnal).

Then I went and took a nap and had some lunch and came back to, huzzah, restored Internet!

And there was much rejoicing!

(Things are going a little smoother now.  I have one more major thing I need to do in the next week, but that's one major thing and not three.)

Heh, some things are just not meant to be. Glad we're back - forward!


O.O

Too fast to have done it just now - another detail our owl-scout missed. Stupid owlses. :P

Not true!  Your owl said there were 4 wolves on the far side of the temple, where the wolves came from.

But when the battle commenced, the leader (unseen thus far) began shouting something.  For those that speak Goblin, it was yelling for the "riders."

You haven't seen all the goblins yet, and some were on that side of the temple.

Two rounds later, the goblin cavalry comes a-charging, as cavalry is wont to do.

Mystique wasn't watching the wolves for the past several rounds, as he was busy fighting goblins with Haazheel.

Do we deploy caltrops now? The have to charge in a straight line to us, if we can get just a few caltrop bags out, we may disrupt them.

Sure!!

Quick, someone yell about it in-character!  :D

My bad - on first read I thought the wolves were "elaborately armoured" as well - but they're not. That was the part I was worried about, but all good, late night read, nm.

Folks, I need to apologize.  I'm having some problems at work and my car decided to go crazy on it's own.  I will be out of touch till Monday.  Sorry again.u

is your car going crazy on its own like Kitt or Maximum Overdrive or Christine?

Are you the wolf or the knight rider Narthian? :)

Nice! ;D

...Still not dead.  Swear.

All right, the last of the things is over.  The only thing left are small tweaks, which should take up far less of my time.

*falls over*

*twitches*

<pats on head, feeds a cookie>

We're still here.
;)

thanks

Man, I might let you do all of my attacks with rolls like that! ;)

I know!  I made those rolls and had to do a double-take at the double twenties.  :D

But remember y'all, rolling for yourself for any action to take, or might take, saves me a ton of time when posting combat rounds.  Don't just post your narrative actions (though obviously I do love to hear you describe what cool thing you're about to do), roll your dice as well.

I rolled three in a row the other day, and wouldn't you know it, all were just skill checks!!

Just for everone's info, I make all my own rolls, I just put them in a PL (out of habit).

They're there, they just don't glare at you at the bottom of my IC post.

Since Drogo's player hasn't bothered to post in... a long time, I've removed him and inquired about one of the substitutes to see if he wishes to jump in.

I've also sent r-mails to Bruenor, Haazheel, and Narthian to prod them along.

Now that I've got things wrangled under control, more posts will be coming at a faster pace, but obviously it's much more fun if y'all are the ones posting for your characters.  ;)

I would like to say that I have received no such mail.

Edit: Strike that, my rmail simply wasn't showing I had any new ones.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:39, Mon 01 Sept 2014.

R-mails!  R-mails for EVERYONE!

*throws r-mail confetti hither and yon*

*then goes the heck to bed, because seriously, DM, you are sleep-deprived.*

Oh dear.  I think Farian needs some divine intervention!  ;)

thats a rough patch Farian. You'll recover in fine fashion though. We got your back!

"Quick, kill the women and children first!"

LOLOLOLOL!

Lovely speech from a cleric, isn't it? hehehehehehehehe

Update tomorrow evening, y'all.  Anyone seen Narthain?  I've had no contact, and I've sent rMails twice.

Then he's gone. Typical. At least I said something when I thought about leaving.

Well as long as most of us remain committed, hopefully everything will go fine. I am in for the long haul as this is the only game I am currently playing. Vive La DM

I figured he'd gone, but hey, sometimes people might have an alternate way contacting someone.  Never know unless I ask.

Would you guys want to see if we can find players to take over Narthian and Drogo?  Or are you satisfied with the party size as-is?  (i.e. I write those characters out soon.)

This could also be a scenario where a new player could play one of them for a short while, then bring in a character of their own design.

I'm dandy running the game either way, but I thought I'd get the lay of the land.  :)

I'm neutral on the subject. Hire new or re-body old, I'm indifferent to.

I firmly believe that in Play-by-post, the party size should be "+1 larger" than what the GM/players feel is optimal. That way, when RL hits and someone (or more than one someone) disappears (short- or long-term), there's a buffer and the game proceeds smoothly until the situation is resolved.

I think that 4-5 makes the best party size, so 5-6 players (not including NPC's, natch).  More than that, and characters/players tend to get lost, much less and the loss of "one more", even short-term, is too noticeable.


As far as "new/replace old" character, if something "like" the old characters can be achieved, that would be more seamless. (New player doesn't have to accept the character as-designed, but something in that direction, and w/ the same name).  Just for continuity.

But, otoh, ~if~ we're going to bring new charaters in (and/or write old ones out), a combat w/ goblins who keep prisoners in cages is not a bad place to make that switch.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:34, Sun 07 Sept 2014.

I like the suggestion that new players take over Drogo and Narthian the time to get rid of the goblins and the shaman (where are you Shaman?!) guarding the temple and then why not when we enter the temple we find the new characters prisoners while Narthian and Drogo decide to go on their own for other missions and adventures?

I'll update later tonight, as planned, but I'll also open up advertising for new peeps as well.

And yar, some possible prisoners (read, future meals) might be found, if that's what ends up happening...

Excellent. New blood is always welcome!

'S a shame Drogo seems to have disappeared. I would kinda have like to flesh out our characters' relationship a bit more.

It looks like I have people willing to take over their slots, so... you may yet get that chance.  :)

So, we see wolves... and yet...


So, how many wolves with goblins riding them?  I count... none left??? No wolves, no riders?

(And what is the approximate distance between us and Group A? And us and the Temple? I have no feel for scale on the maps.)
:/

 
Does Group B hear any of this?

At the time, there was one goblin riding a wolf, whom Sir Aberlayne was fighting, and one lone wolf, whom Farian and Bruenor were fighting.

Unseen by y'all, there is also one sleeping wolf and two sleeping goblin warriors that Dellas hit with a sleep spell just west of Volsh's group.

Right now, Averdante's group is about even with Dellas and Drogo.  Dellas is about twenty feet behind Volsh's group.

The temple is about eight feet away from all you guys.

this is the voice {well text really} of the Drogo, we know you can read us Gamelings

 just wanted to know, does anyone use Goldenrod for speaking? have not seen
 it used so far...
This message was last edited by the player at 19:13, Tue 09 Sept 2014.

All yours. ;)

As Drogo has emerged... we have a new Drogo and a new Narthian, so I will be getting them up to speed later tonight, unless anyone else gets there first.

In reply to Dungeon Master (msg # 268):

"new and improved" Narthian here. been reading the adventures, but apparently I wasnt paying attention to the colors...is Purple taken?

Also, some DMs appreciate and some forbid a thinking color. I didnt really notice anyone doing this, but I don't know if that was a:me not being observant, b:no one "visibly thinking" or c: DM fiat.

I don't know about the others, but I don't post thoughts. Other folks tend to metagame/respond to them, and, unless you're a telepath, you don't know my thoughts, that's me. ;)

I believe character thoughts or monologue has been presented in italic.

Yar, internal thoughts are in italics.

Also remember, speech is presented in both color and quotes.

Like so:



Also, quick summary of what's what:

The group is all members of the Adventurer's Guild (which is explained in one of the notices).  You guys are roving bands of trouble-shooters who take on tasks the local guards won't touch.  As your reputation grows, you can gain rank in the Guild and command higher fees and more respect from your peers.

The group decided to take a job that involved a town being raided by a large number of goblins.  Traveling to the town of Redhaven, the group found evidence of the goblins' attacks before they'd even gotten to the city, having found a farm that had been burned out by a goblin attack.  Only the wife and daughter, hidden down a well, were able to survive.

In the city, it was explained there was a tribe of at least thirty, plus some wolves, who had been raiding the town, particularly at night.  They were supposed to be camped out in some ruins north of town, ruins that had a rather uncanny reputation.

The group decided to attack the goblins by daylight to negate the advantage of their superior night vision.  Between an old scholarly map from the town archives and a scouted map by Haazheel's own familiar, the group decided to split in two and attack the two larger groups of goblins while they were still sleeping.

Between both groups, they've managed to slaughter quite a few goblins and several wolves, most of the visible tribe thus far.  The only goblins currently left, that they know of, are a couple of goblin wives (who are rolling away a cage of goblin young towards the woods), a couple of sleeping goblin riders and one of their wolves (asleep from a sleep spell), and a goblin shaman, as yet unseen, but who's probably in the temple in the center of the ruins.

Currently the temple is shrouded in shadow.

The group also has two NPCs with them, a halfling fire wizard named Dellas Nump, and his sister Sir Aberlayne Nump, a paladin of Yondalla, riding a warpony named Valiant.  Sir Aberlayne is a more experienced adventurer, but is traveling with her younger brother to help keep him safe.

Welcome Drogo & Narthian! Looking forward to getting to know you both (again!) ;D


+1

If it's important to the post to show "thinking", then in italics (and maybe parentheses) - just make it clear that that's what s/he's thinking.

But please don't communicate plans or intentions unless it's vocalized - almost impossible to then post IC with that OOC knowledge.


k, I'm totally confused now. (And no, I'm not just "thinking" that I'm confused...) ;)

You say Group B sees F&B fighting a lone wolf, but Farian is now casually slitting throats, and Drogo is whispering to Bruenor.

At the end of the last GM update, which is when Group B arrives at the end of the trail and can see the others, what do they see? I assume Sir A is engaged - are Farian and Bruenor still fighting a wolf, or no?
This message was last edited by the player at 07:24, Wed 10 Sept 2014.

In reply to Averdante (msg # 273):

darn I keep forgetting the "quotes" am just so used to doing the coloured text.

Colored text all started from IRC gaming, real-time /chats where really the ONLY way to tell who was talking was by diff colors.

"But when you're making one post a day" he explained, "it's easy to just format speech using quotation marks!"

I just wish more people did, he thought ruefully.

At the end of my last post, all upright foes were dead.  And then the temple went dark.  (Both groups were sort of acting all together, but I could only post them sequentially.)

Farian, subsequently, then went to go kill the sleeping goblins and wolf that Dellas put to sleep.  Drogo, presumably seeing a small break in immediate danger, decided to get chatty.

And yes, group B heard all that.

In reply to Dungeon Master (msg # 276):

Drogo slit throats, Farian went to heal Dellas.

Well, he could put Dellas out of his misery by slitting his throat...

Probably won't though.

Probably.

;)

Hmm, theorizing on the tactical approach to a goblin shaman, possibly with guards, hiding inside a ruined temple where the only entrance is cloaked in a darkness spell...It occurs to me that Dellas could ride with Aberlayne, and both plans could be used. Plus, the wizard gluing himself to the paladin's hip might just save his skin.

On the other hand, putting both of our NPCs close to the temple means they could both be in danger. Over all, though, I think that this is the best idea. Anyone else got a thought?

Sacrifice the NPCs for assured victory!

Oh, wait, no one here is a priest of Hextor?

Never mind, I'll just go climb back under my rock...

In reply to Dungeon Master (msg # 280):

we could be Demon worshippers and try for brownie points from a Patron Demon?  My favoured Demon is the Lord of the Stoning,  funny thing that... I think the Demon just hid nearby

As someone who is (IC) familiar with the divine magic necessary to cast Darkness/Daylight, I don't think it qualifies as metagaming or rule abuse/lawyering to point out that Darkness is a 10 minute/level duration. It will last at least 30 minutes but probably not much longer than 40 or 50. Perhaps we should use that time to clean up any remaining goblins outside of the temple and come back when it has dissipated.

In reply to Narthian Goldleaf (msg # 282):

will you be taking the idea IC?

Exactly my thoughts, but Aver'e is not as familiar with magic, so glad someone "IC" mentioned it.

The only concern is whether the Shaman is using the time to do something ~really~ unpleasant - but I just don't see charging in (literally) blindly, esp when they can see us coming. So if it's a stall, I think it's a good one. :/

(And, no, it's not metagaming - it's recognizing that the spell has a relatively limited duration, and we have all day.)

Good, good, don't worry, the shaman will just use the time to sacrifice the prisoners to open the gateway to the Abyss.

That won't be a problem, right?  ;)

o Scout Temple? check
o Kill Goblins? check
o Prevent escapees, if possible? check!
o Prevent Abyss?... not in our job description, sorry.

0;)

gosh I never knew that goblin young were so... much of a handful.  Such a difference of outlook it may take awhile for me to get my head around this insight... Evil races are really are EVIL races here.

Brrr :) chilling but rational thought, given enough time and experience they can even become... best not give people ideas.

One question though why are the mothers even bothering with the little spites?  could it be they are keeping them for use as shock troops?
This message was last edited by the player at 17:28, Sun 14 Sept 2014.

Well, if a goblin baby were taken out of the cage and raised like a person instead of a rabid chicken, who knows?  It might even be a good person.  But this batch basically knows hunger, survival, and cruelty because that's all that's ever happened to them.

The goblin wives are probably hoping they could find another tribe, perhaps, and give them a cage of young potential warriors as a gift to the chieftain.

Or something.

Goblins are weird.  And kinda crazy.

In reply to Dungeon Master (msg # 288):

In that case I can not just stand by and let an innocent be butchered.  They are only children and to let them be slaughtered... I am no Goblin and I will not just stand by and see these good people act as if they were either.

If a good Halfling stands back and does nothing is the Halfling truly good?

That's totally up to you how you want Drogo to react.  Sir Aberlayne has been pretty distracted by making sure her brother was all right, but eventually it's going to penetrate her concentration that there was an all-call for slaughter.

As to how dangerous goblin wives and cage of goblin young could be?  Less dangerous than goblin cavalry or warriors, more dangerous than a swarm of rats.  How long they could survive out there on their own?  It's debatable.  If they encountered, say, an unsuspecting woodsman or hunter, it could be even odds as for who survived.

In reply to Dungeon Master (msg # 290):

just because it is not likely to work is no reason not to try.  If even one Goblin child is saved it will be worth the effort.  sorry but that is how I perceive good.  It is not good to only help the people you think deserve help.  After all the Goblins probably do not think we are worth anything either.

I do regret having to force my characters point of view on every like this but I am not trying to do anything else but play him.  I am not trying to get you all to go along.  It would be nice if you did choose to help but I am not pushing for it.  But think of the benefits if we successfully raised a clan of non evil Goblins... give me a moment to think of one... JK

The birth rate of the species is one, the fact that they advance by class is another.  It would not be easy but as the name of the game states Simple doesn't mean easy.  If you want to think on ways of control... there is always the ever ready Geas.  The idea of a Dojo of Goblin Monks or a Logde of Goblin Rangers or just to stretch the thought to one extreme a troop of Goblin Paladins.

YUP I do not think it will work either but you will never know until you try.

With all that being said

there are many different ways to help.
This message was last edited by the player at 05:37, Mon 15 Sept 2014.

Hey, don't worry.  I don't have a pre-planned outcome for this - that's why I game.  I have several things that can happen, and I try to plan for various contingencies, or at least possibilities.  Go with what you feel your character would do, and we'll role-play it out.  :)

I look at goblins like baby rattlesnakes. They're cute, but do you really want to pet them? A baby rattlesnake is more deadly than an adult, poison more concentrated I guess.

In reply to Farian Raymellie (msg # 293):

so baby rattlesnakes can learn a character class?

Yuan Ti :p

I have no idea what to make of Drogo's last remark.

But I think Aver'e liked the old Drogo better. ;)


@ Drogo - just to be clear, our characters witnessed the aftermath of an attack by these same goblins just a day ago. They butchered the husband of a farming family, and tortured the horse (at least), and have held a settlement in fear of nightly raids.

And our flesh would be on their menu without hesitation. These are the creatures he is all weepy-eyed over.

Just to be clear.  :/

In reply to Averdante (msg # 296):

so your saying the children aided in these actions?
so tell me if a dog has hair and a human has hair is a human a dog?

No, but a goblin is a goblin. Evil by nature.

In reply to Farian Raymellie (msg # 298):
So why can a PC play a Goblin as anything other that Evil?

Firstly, I would like to say hat even the weakest version of "the ever present geas" is a level 4 spell. On top of that, that spell only lasts 1 day per caster level. Knowing this, how are we to maintain this compulsion? Also, what is the moral value in keeping these creatures alive in such a manner, without choice.

While there wasn't much time before he left, I don't feel that this attitude is congruent to Drogo's personality. It's not bad acting, but it doesn't really work for the established character.

Even with free will, which I'll agree that these goblins have, so you really think you're going to overcome years of abuse in one afternoon? It takes a certain strength to turn pain into growth, strength I doubt these goblin pups have. Good goblins are rare for a reason.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:24, Mon 15 Sept 2014.

In reply to Bruenor Sedricson (msg # 300):

they do have a choice it is just not a good one and... oh just forget it.  If you want to nit pick and play my character your welcome to it.  I will not be badgered by other PCs for playing a good character the way I see it.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:43, Mon 15 Sept 2014.

I never told you how to play your PC, do as you will.

In reply to Farian Raymellie (msg # 302):

may I point out that my reply post was not to your comment but to someone else's you just got to read it.  sorry if you took it any other way.

In reply to Bruenor Sedricson (msg # 300):

Yes and my character does have Know Arcane and Spellcraft and... All he knows is that children need to be taught to be good just like they need to be taught to be bias and prejudice and evil in the end it is all a matter of choice after all.

Just like in real life
This message was last edited by the player at 12:52, Mon 15 Sept 2014.

As a point, Bruenor, this Drogo won't be like the old Drogo because he has a new player.  I'm not going to straightjacket our new player into an old player's personality; he gets to play his character in the manner he chooses.  If our new Drogo chooses to really emphasize the Good part of his Chaotic Good alignment, that's entirely his prerogative and an interesting way to play it.  Rarely would you hear me say there's a "wrong" way to play someone.  And that hasn't happened yet in this game.

I don't mind a lively debate between players, but please don't make this the kind of thing that results in bad feelings all around. The "Should we kill the baby goblins/orcs/grimlocks?" is one of the mainstay debates of D&D, and there never is a clear-cut answer.  Some are simpler, some are harder, and there are multiple sides to every question, and none of them are "the one true way."

I am currently running a city-based Forgotten Realms game in my face-to-face group, and they've had occasions where they've had captured bad guys and just weren't sure what to do with them.  Putting some of these guys in the city jails wasn't a question, so what they chose to do was find a charitable order of Ilmater (the god of mercy and suffering in the Realms) who specialized in reeducating monsters the hard way, slowly, over time, with rewards showing them that being good was a good thing.

Would it have been far simpler to slaughter the monsters to the last man?  Oh yes, way easier.  And the monster could escape from the charitable order and wreck revenge.  But the players chose to do that, to go that extra ten steps, because that was how they wanted to play.

If you're going to do this debate, I'd recommend doing it IC, not OOC, so we don't end up with players questioning players, instead of characters questioning characters.

Remember, be excellent to each other.

@ Drogo
I apologize if my message or intention wasn't clear in my previous post, it was done via phone, so I was trying to be concise. When I said "without choice" I wasn't referring to whether or not they will live, I was referring to the life they would live. Without the choice of good or bad, if the decision to harm another or not is magically circumvented, were they ever given choice to begin with, are they learning or growing or being better people?

Also, I apologize if it felt if I was trying to play your character. I was merely sharing my thoughts, but perhaps I was to blunt in doing so.

P.S. I was planning on bringing this up in character, I was simply trying to wait for some of our other players to speak, those who aren't as active as Farian, Averdante, the DM, and myself

Thus ends my participation in this off-topic ramble
This message had punctuation tweaked by the player at 13:20, Mon 15 Sept 2014.

Life goes on.
This message was last edited by the player at 13:37, Mon 15 Sept 2014.

In reply to Drogo O'Logo Underbough (msg # 307):

Wow. Quite the lively debate! And not a new one.

"GOOD" can mean many things. It can mean looking for the good in every individual and giving him/her a chance. It can also mean "greater good". i.e. if we let these goblin young flee, they will a: form their own band and continue raiding, b: die on their own, c: end up in another warband which will become more powerful and aggressive with the additional troops, or d: something even worse.

There is also the selfish 'good', if we let them go and they survive to become dangerous, we could get hired to exterminate them as adults, which would be a salve to Drogo's conscience since they would be being punished for what they have done, not for what they might do or for what their leaders have done.

In reply to Narthian Goldleaf (msg # 308):

funny? your point of view my point of view none of it matters all that matters is I take my chances  and  do my best to play how I think it should be played. I will not condemn anyone for what might be...
This message was last edited by the player at 20:23, Mon 15 Sept 2014.

I am confused. I didn't use the word 'funny' nor did I mean to imply or infer that there is anything amusing about a philosophical debate. I apologize if I offended you.

I got into a similar debate with a GM of a different game when I referred to my CG character and his potential use of "enhanced interrogation" of a prisoner as 24's Jack Bauer. We had quite the debate over whether torturing a single prisoner to prevent hundreds (millions, in 24) of deaths was an evil act (torture) or a good act (protecting the greater number of people by extracting information from an enemy combatant).

Some might view releasing a group of young goblins an evil act because they would likely starve on their own or join with a potentially more savage tribe and thereby inflict greater harm upon a "civilized" society. Neither I nor my character pretend to have the expertise to answer questions of philosophy.

In reply to Narthian Goldleaf (msg # 310):
never said you did...
This message was last edited by the player at 21:38, Mon 15 Sept 2014.

<sigh>

Please, if we're going to debate, then raise your level of debate. Never said any such thing, and you know it.


Exactly.


But this isn't RL, and RL expectations are (usually) out of place in a fantasy world.  In fantasy worlds, it's not a matter of "nature v. nurture" - it's almost always Nature - blood will tell, and evil will as evil does. PC's (and named NPC's) are THE rare exceptions - but rare exceptions don't disprove the general rule.


I largely blame it on Drizzt and other such emo drivel.

But you can't in every game - not every gameworld allows it, not every GM believes that any/all races are PC-quality.

Look - btr you can play a half-orc paladin - no problem. But no one EXPECTS a wild half-orc to leave the tribe to become a paladin, and a "civilized" half-orc (say, the product of two urban half-orcs) would still be odds-against.

Not because they can't, but because it goes against their nature.


Yeah, B - I'll back Drogo on this one. New Player can play the character as they want - it's a radical shift from the established character, true, but that can't be helped.

However - Drogo - go back and read the discussion about this topic at "Redhaven Guildhall" - this is quite a continuity jump, hard to explain, harder to accept, so that's where a large part of the counter-push is coming from. :/


It's not nit-picking, and it's not how you're playing him, it's that his logic seems based on a game world other than the one we're in. The goblins your Drogo is describing are NOT the goblins that are in front of him, not the ones the GM has described.


THAT is goblins in this world.


In this world - as defined - goblins are INSANE. No "might be" about it. Their little goblin brains are broken. They are, BY NATURE, cruel and selfish and random. No amount of Lawful Good upbringing would prevent one from pulling the wings off a dove or tossing the new abbey puppies (live) into the stewpot for dinner - if not just gnaw on them live for a snack. They are ticking bombs, every last one - it's not "if", it's "when" they go bad.


And that last is why I disagree with the whole "free will" argument. They have free will in the same way that Hannibal Lector does, or any insane serial killer, driven by something outside "logic". Evil is all they know, it's what they are, it IS what they do.

Goblins in this world, anyway.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:55, Mon 15 Sept 2014.