Haazheel Thorn - Your stats say a lot about your character.  Does your wizard need the 12 Str?  Technically, no.  If you want to maximize your wizardly attributes, you pump up Int (for spell DCs), Dex (for AC and aiming ranged touch spells), and Wis (for Will saves), maybe Con to be less fragile and Cha if you're planning on interacting with people on a regular basis.  Strength for wizards is often a "dump stat," i.e. the one most people neglect.

However, just because that's typical doesn't mean you have to go that route.  Your character could be a bit more athletic or outdoorsy than most wizards, which could be fun to roleplay.  People look at the guy with robes and a spellbook and think, "wimpy nerd."  Then they're surprised when you use your quarterstaff to knock them upside the head.  ;)  In a less violent but certainly useful way, you can also haul more stuff, which is nice when you're raiding old ruins or carting around a lot of supplies.

One of the more interesting characters I ever played was called Squall the Small.  We were rolling for stats, rather than point-buy, and we had each rolled several sets.  Two of mine had a lot of average or slightly above average, many of them very similar.  The last set had three or four fantastic stats, but also a 5.  I ended up playing a gnome cleric and putting that 5 in Str, which due to gnome racial penalties, dropped to a 3.  He wore full plate, but a stiff breeze would knock him over and he wasn't able to get up again.

A strong cleric with a decent wisdom can be an amazing combat tank.  Obviously, that was not Squall's forte.  Squall turned into the ultimate support cleric with excellent undead turning skills.  When he had time to cast buffing spells on the party, they could take on challenges that might have been far beyond their reach, and the rest of the characters defended him fiercely.

That "handicap" of low Strength turned into some great roleplaying opportunities.

Yes, dropping your Str could add to your Dex or Cha or even Wis, but it really depend on how you view your character.

If you want to go the summoner route, maybe your character is used to wrangling his summoned creatures, or has traveled a lot in order to see various examples of what he'll be summoning.  He's done more "fieldwork," so he's tougher than your average wizard.

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Narthian Goldleaf - Ah, the eternal struggle between skill points and animal handling.  the question is what is your character's strength?  Do you want to be able to try to calm any savage beasts you meet without having to cast spells, or do you need the skill points for more outdoorsy kinds of things?
This message was last edited by the GM at 04:58, Fri 30 May 2014.

Hey hey!

I submitted several diff character concepts, and the GM and I are kicking around which one the party might need most - a tough and resourceful dwarven trapspringer, an elven archer w/ Awareness feats (read "early warning system"), a Cleric-Fighter heading toward Paladin, or a Bard for all Seasons.

I'm good with any of them, so whatever hole is in the party, that's where I'll plug someone in.


Some Comments...


Wizards w/ 10 Str are fine, but those w/ 12 always seem to have fewer problems having what they need in their pack. It's only 1 facet of the character, and all in all a minor one, but a nice twist. While 10 pds isn't (always) a big deal, the diff between being able to actually carry a 100 pound unconscious companion and a 130 pound one can be!

A true power-build would have Int at 17, so it can go to 18 at 4th level, but that does sacrifice a lot of survivability in other areas. (And while I don't recommend "power builds" in general, and they are not for all characters/classes, of all the classes Wizards do benefit the most from them. # spells, spell ST's, skill points - bam. If you're going to be a glass cannon, be the baddest one on the block) ;)

However, if you don't do that then I would def not miss out on a bonus with either Wis or Cha - 12 (for +1) in one, 10 (+0) in the other. 11/11 gives you nothing but 2 "almosts", and "almost" isn't worth anything here.


It gives a +1 to that skill (and all other social skills), but Int gives one more skill rank, every level = +3 at 3rd, +7 at 7th, etc. Which do you see your character using more often? (Or wanting to really nail?)

A Druid gets 4 + Int skills. To me, a Druid "should" have...

o Animal Empathy
o Kn (Nature)
o Wild Lore
o Listen
o Spot

That's 5. & then (at least!) 1 rank in...

o Intuit Direction
o SpellCraft
o an "appropriate" Craft or Profession

So that's Int 14, if you can afford it. :/

(Note - you could also multiclass w/ Rogue, for the skill points and etc, and go the "1st level multiclass" route, DMG p 40) so Goldleaf is "a druid" at 1st level. As an option. Makes for a more tricky/versatile Druid at the cost of pure spell power (and no animal companion until 2nd level). Have to take 2 Ranks in the cross-class skills, but 4 Ranks in Listen, Spot, Search, Climb, Balance, Hide, Move Silent, Tumble, Use Rope... lots of options open up to let him move in the woods better. ymmv.)


The time to go Rogue is now, 1st level - 8+Int skill points x four! Go the 1st-level-multi route if you really need the bonus feat and the armour/weapons proficiencies, but go Rogue first for the skills!

He doesn't have to take any of the "thiefish" skills (or not many?), but 4 ranks in all the nice ones are money. +4 in Tumble (you know), Balance (for fighting on unusual surfaces), you'll get your Bluff (and other Cha skills?), Spot and Listen, maybe Move Silent (+3 Dex!), and so many more* - SO much more effective than taking Rogue later.  So. ;)

(* Lots of "1 rank" in "trained only" skills that open those doors to allow a roll, too. And/or Climb/Jump, fighter skills that he might build on later.)

And low Wisdom means - well, you know. He's kinda blind and slightly deaf, and easily enspelled - but he ~is~ rather charming despite those flaws! ;D
This message was last edited by the player at 11:26, Fri 30 May 2014.

I cannot find the variant rule you are talking about, Nonam.

Also, as this is a "Simple" game, I won't be employing variant rules without discussing it with you guys first.  1st level multiclasses are, in my opinion, the exact opposite of simple.

And as a point for our druid, Intuit Direction was only a skill in 3.0.  It got folded into Survival in 3.5.

I am personally biased, as allowing this rule would mean re-vamping my character, and I really don't want to, but I'd say I'm against using that rule. Then again, I am biased.

Thanks a lot for your advices, what do you think now of this stats:
Str: 12 (+1) {4 points}
Dex: 14 (+2) {6 points}
Con: 14 (+2) {6 points}
Int: 16 (+3) {10 points}
Wis: 12 (+2) {4 points}
Cha: 10 (+0)  {2 points}

I think I'll keep strength at 12 for flavor. He is not an old nerdy wizard who spent his life in a library, he likes to travel, to go on adventures... and if you mess with him, beware of his quarterstaff ;)

I will work on the spells and familiar asap. Any suggestion for a bonus feat (as a human he gets one)? Skill focus on arcana knowledge?
This message was last edited by the player at 20:07, Fri 30 May 2014.

(accidentally edited/ deleted post - derp.

Mos Def need more coffee. Sorry.)
:P
This message was last edited by the player at 21:27, Sat 31 May 2014.

Nonam: You make compelling arguments, but your mention of the character's roots being in fighter are true. However, I must personally thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for being so respectful, helpful, and all around great guy! A lot of people tend to get agressive, or at least passive-agressive, when their advice is ignored, but you have been a perfect gentleman. I wish there were more people like you on this site, my friend.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:58, Sat 31 May 2014.

If you're definitely going to go for being a specialist summoner, like NoName said, Spell Focus (conjuration) and Augment Summoning are really great feats to take.  Augment Summoning makes all your summoned creatures tougher, and who wouldn't want that?  If you don't want to go that route, Skill Focus (Knowledge: Arcana), Skill Focus (Spellcraft), or a utility feat like Dodge, Self-Sufficient, or Toughness might be interest.

As for what schools to drop - every school has something good, and it's painful giving up two no matter what you do.

Like NoName said, Enchantment has a good passel of spells, but you have to commit to raising your DCs as high as possible.  Enchatments are usually all or nothing - if they make their save, nothing happens, tough tub of taffy, hope you got a backup plan sort of thing.  When they succeed, they do so spectacularly, but that is something you need to be aware of.

Illusion has a great deal of utility, and while it has a lot of the same weaknesses as Enchantment (DCs are very important), it's not as mission-critical.  In many cases, you only have to save against an illusion if you interact with it, so if you're clever, you can keep your foes at bay without ever having to have them interact (put a wall where your fighter is, make your ranger look like a tree).

While both schools have much to recommend them, if you see your wizard as a "student of the real," thematically he might have chosen to neglect those two disciplines in order to focus on summoning/creating real things, instead of smoke and mirrors.

Another possibility to drop would be necromancy.  A wizard gets some decent necromancy spells, but most of them are what we call "debuffs," used to weaken your opponent before defeating or killing them.  You may find your summoned creatures to be more useful in that regard - weakening foes so the fighter-types can take them out.  And then your summoned creatures can also scout, have senses your party lacks (like darkvision or scent), or even (if strong enough) removed obstacles or move the party where they want to go.

I'd definitely keep transmutation and abjuration - a wizard had get an insane amount of mileage out of those schools.  Evocation, of course, is the classic D&D school of magic missiles and fireballs.  If your summoned creature can't kill it, finish it off with a magic missile to the face.  :D  (You don't have to take that spell, of course, it's just a nice one to have in case of emergencies.)

What sort of familiar were you thinking about, just out of curiosity?

---

To all, we definitely will not be using 1st level multiclasses.  Or variant races.  So... one more thing to not worry about. :)

I'm about 75% done with my character.  I still need to do spells, equipment, and the personality stuff.  I will get to it later today or tomorrow.

This message was deleted by the player at 21:12, Sat 31 May 2014.

This message was deleted by the player at 21:17, Sat 31 May 2014.

I'm nearly done as well. mainly equipment now and fluff. Tomorrow night hopefully. I work every sunday all day.

Welcome Drogo!

What can you share with us about your Rogue character?


And that is, to use the technical Latin term, a deal breaker. <bows to a man of principle>



<nods>

In some circles, spells have several classifications:

o Save or Die.
Many Enchantments, like "Sleep", are in this category. Even if not literally appropriate, might as well be. "Stand very still, raise your chin up and shut your eyes, thank you..."  Problem is these are usually only 1 Target - 1 Saving Throw for all the marbles. That can make these a real "do or die" for both sides of the spell.

o Save or Suck.
Debuffs, or things like Glitterdust. Not (necessarily) a killer, but removes target from combat or greatly lowers their effectiveness. Nice thing about these is many are area-effect, so several targets get to Save or Suck - bound to catch at least one. Good for battlefield control.

o Save and still Suck.
Rare, but very popular - they do X with a save, and do even more without. GREAT for battlefield control. Examples are Web (Save for half-movement) or Grease (save for being flat-footed - and all the Rogues say "thx! kk bb!"). ;)

o No Saving throw allowed.
Sign me up. Self explanatory. Includes things like Walls (or Web) when they can simply create a barrier. Ray of Enfeeblement (but you have to "touch" w/ the ray).

As a note, while the big blow'm up spells (Fireball, etc) seem "the biggest damage", a really good "Now You SUCK!" spell can allow the melee/missile types in the party to do MUCH more additional damage in the same time.  While it seems painful and even counter-intuitive to drop Evocation, some wizards can more than make up for that lack and never miss those spells in their limited spell slots.

(Not quite sure how I got off on this tangent - but now there it's there, I'll just leave it for consideration. Hmmmm... more coffee...)
:?
This message was last edited by the player at 21:28, Sat 31 May 2014.

Stats will be
Str 6
Dex 20
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 8

Light Crossbow
Feat: Point Blank Shot

Skills: Disable Device,Open Locks,Listen,Spot,Search,Hide,Move Silent,Tumble,Climb,Slight of Hand

Ah, that kind of rogue! ;D

Sounds good!

Yep, I'll check for all the traps and disable them. Open those locked doors. Scout around. cover everones back. Pick a few pockets inbetween. And Juggle and tumble when we in town and need a bit of coin.

Alright. I (Nasty McDirty) am finally in y'all. sorry it has taken me so long. I was having difficulties with my stupid CPU. But, now I am almost ready. I will be your resident Barbarian.

By the way, how do we turn in our characters and once we have them ready?

Not sure, sorry.

(And I'd ask what sort of Barbarian Vo'V is, but... is there more than 1 type?) ;D

I just posted my character under the character details section and keep the DM updated by posting here.

Hey guys, guess who's a fully graduated senior from high school!!!!

PC with no name, which concept are you going with? Shouldn't matter which one as all the based are covered. I say go with you one you like best.

(Edit: Just call me Noname for now, works for me)
;)


Posted to the GM earlier on that exact topic, haven't heard back yet.

o The dwarven trapspringer is obviously redundant, so he's out.  Woulda been fun, but we're covered there. (And he's "that" kind of rogue also - no social skills, pure trapspringer, so brings very little new to the table. He'd have been a solid 2nd-rank fighter more than ranged, but that's a dwarf vs. a halfling.)

o I could go w/ the Elven archer/Ranger/awareness package - he'd give the party the outdoors edge, a general "Oh, there's trouble hiding up ahead" radar, and combined with the 20 Dex Rogue x-bow, the 16 Dex fighter and even the Barbarian (longbow?) and Druid (sling), we could make quite a ranged fire team (while the wizard looks on approvingly, watches our backs, cleans his nails and acts as heavy reserve - that's his job).

o I could also go with the Bard - a great "6th man" for any party, a bard adds that X factor in- and out of combat, and could add the full spectrum of "face man" skills that the party currently lacks.  A Bard alone very rarely shines - a party with a Bard shines so much brighter. ;)


But the real problem is that the party doesn't have a Healer, and I'm not it either.  The Druid can do it out of combat - "next day" is fine if we have a day to burn - but Druids can't hot-swap for healing spells.  And I'm not excited about running a pure cleric, or anything close, sorry.

o My 4th character submission (multi, eventually heading toward paladin) could grab a 1st level of Cleric at 2nd level, and so be a good back-up/support healer then, but offers nothing until then.  But that's only 1 level of Cleric anywhere on the near horizon, so still not enough for the whole party.  (Note that this one's LG aligned - not a Paladin yet, so not a real boyscout, but... fair warning.)


I'm good with any of those - probably listed them in my preference, all things considered, but it's a close call - any would fine work for me.
This message was last edited by the player at 10:33, Sun 01 June 2014.

I have a cleric pending from another source, so pick which character you feel would be most fun/useful, NoName.

Drogo and the elf ranger could set up a nice field of crossfire wherever they go, while the bard could be the barker for this little circus, "Step right up, step right up, genuine adventurers here!"  :D

----

Congrats Bruenor!  (Alas, I am... shoot, 15 years beyond that happy day.)

----

As for submitting character sheets - As of this post I have made everyone's character sheet user editable, and given you a blank template.  However, look at the sample character sheet I have posted.  Your sheet should be identical to that sheet in format.  Bolding, parentheses, the way I totaled skills, the lot.  If people's sheets are different in a dozen tiny ways, it's going to be mega-hard for me to figure out what's what.  Also, that sheet is my "show your work" sheet - all of your mechanics and the reasons behind them are listed, so it's easier to find mistakes.

Yeah, I think it's between the Elven Archer and the Bard., but they provide very different elements and their strengths lie in very different directions.

Any GM hints whether we'll have more or less "outdoor" vs. "social/town" (vs. dungeon) adventures? Any input from the crowd?