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08:49, 28th March 2024 (GMT+0)

FATE Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion.

Posted by HarriganFor group 0
The Bane
player, 21 posts
Mon 8 Sep 2014
at 01:57
  • msg #34

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

Harrigan:
OOC chatter is just fine, not distracting.

I *will* say I forgot Merevel reversed course and decided to join. Unfortunately, I now have the first adventure pretty framed up for solo play. I can change that easily enough, but only if the 'right' kind of character is pitched. I suggest we get started, and if Merevel surfaces, we can work on getting him/her integrated. Won't take a lot of doing. Worried otherwise we'll lose steam.

Alrighty, we going to go with IC / game play here?
Harrigan
GM, 73 posts
Mon 8 Sep 2014
at 02:46
  • msg #35

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

Already have an IC thread rolling...

link to a message in this game
Frili
player, 19 posts
Mon 8 Sep 2014
at 08:36
  • msg #36

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

Harrigan:
OOC: No worries on brevity -- we're not writing a novel here, though I'll admit we're off to a better start than I was
Finally, this trinket / medallion fragment -- you do remember it. It came from a deep and dangerous part of the sewers, a dank, dark place near the city's center that gave you quite a bad feeling. It was found on a grate, a bit too large to slip through. You've never been to the -even deeper- area where that grate drained...


I'd like to step in with some advice as well, seeing as this is an exercise. I didn't want to break up the story thread though, so I'll give my two cents here.

Depending on which kind of group you have and what kind of DM you are, you could also opt to let the player tell you something about the artifact. Something like. "You do know the artifact. Where did you get your hands on it, and which troubles did you have to overcome to bring it to the merchant?"

Depending on how you answer this question, the story could take several twists that no-one could foresee. But that only really works if everyone is very improvisational and willing to come up with setting/story material on the fly. I mean. You could have stolen it from a dragonhoard, escaping only because the dragon had incredible toothaches, but he noticed you and a voice in your head told you that it was gonna find you. Or you could have 'found' it in the sewers where dark robed figures were performing all kinds of horrible sacrifices, but you took it and ran, making an enemy in some strange cult. More and more could happen. In this way, I guess, the world could be built during play, heck even a character aspect could be made during play this way.

But this is a no prep, improv intensive way of playing, not suitable for all players. I work with kids, our roleplaying usually does not even have rules. When the kids are bored in the playground I just tell them that I have a big sword and a fireproof shield for them and tell them that I, the king, order my knights to find the dragon and slay it. There's a problem though, it's invisible, so they'll have to track him down somehow. Then, for at least 30 minutes, they are gone playing again, often coming back, having changed this up, being dragons themselves. So I'm used to improv. as adults though, it can be more satisfying to have some structure so as to have a coherent story. It's a matter of style, but I'd thought I'd share it.
Harrigan
GM, 75 posts
Mon 8 Sep 2014
at 15:18
  • msg #37

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

Good points Frili, and I should mention that anyone reading along here is certainly welcome to help clarify things for The Bane and other folks trying to wrestle FATE to the ground.

There's a wide range here as well, just like with the collaborative setup of the background / game itself. In general, players in FATE games have more narrative control than they're used to. Little things like having to ask "Are there some barrels nearby I can use to hide behind?" are normally dispensed with -- if it makes your actions and the story interesting, have at it. At least that's my take -- FATE Core says, "Declare a Story Detail: To add something to the narrative based on one of your aspects, spend a fate point." I personally wouldn't require the expenditure of a FP unless it was a pretty major element that was being added or changed.

Bottom line is that FATE games can be every bit as structured, plot-wise, as any other game... and they can swing fully the other way, towards the collaborative improv type stuff Frili mentions. In my experience most of them tend to come down on the more traditionally plotted side of the fence, but in this little gathering of folks here on rpol.net I'm seeing quite a bit of energy around the more group-creative stuff.

Me, I'm a bit more of a traditionalist. There are tons of details my players can tinker with and whatnot, but there are also some core structures that I need to be able to rely on without having the ground move beneath me. We can talk about where you might have gotten the fragment of the medallion, but I'll have to change direction on some things if you didn't find it in the sewers. :)
The Bane
player, 22 posts
Mon 8 Sep 2014
at 20:39
  • msg #38

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

I wanted to reply this AM, but had to leave the house by 5:30. Glad I didn't get to because I had a pretty neat idea while at work. I just hope I am creative/capable enough to write what I envision, at least succinctly enough to share my visual.... Plus I might muddle with the setting a teensy bit when I do write it, but I can fix it if I over step. Can't wait to get home to crank this out!
Harrigan
GM, 76 posts
Mon 8 Sep 2014
at 20:50
  • msg #39

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

Have at it! We'll adjust as need be, certainly!
The Bane
player, 23 posts
Tue 9 Sep 2014
at 00:40
  • msg #40

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

Harrigan:
Have at it! We'll adjust as need be, certainly!

Had at it... but it got the best of me.

I was thinking about where you left me in the story and I had this kick... well awesome scene in my head at work while I thought about various things I could do with it. Well, needless to say, I should have just plainly wrote it out rather than trying to convey an image the way I did.

I'll keep it simpler in the future. Sorry.


TB

Harrigan
GM, 77 posts
Tue 9 Sep 2014
at 02:31
  • msg #41

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

No worries, I dig it. This is as good a forum as any to experiment with posting style as well as mechanics. :)
The Bane
player, 25 posts
Tue 9 Sep 2014
at 03:34
  • msg #42

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

Okay, so right now she has a fantastic advantage over me. I am assuming my roll was to Overcome An Obstacle (My roll: -1 added to my Clever +3 (which I was intending on using) leaves me at +2). Woefully inadequate.

So, I am assuming that I could spend a FATE point for a re-roll, correct?
If I do, can I Invoke an Aspect if needed after?
If I can spend a FATE point for a re-roll, should it be narrated? Or is it assumed that my less than stellar roll had no narrative significance? Or is it optional to Narrate the change? I would assume you need to Narrate using a second Aspect.

I think I have how it would play out in FtF game, but uncertain how to handle it here.
Harrigan
GM, 81 posts
Tue 9 Sep 2014
at 05:07
  • msg #43

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

Sorry I wasn't a little clearer here.

She's trying to Create an Advantage, and is using Flashy.

You're Defending, and get to choose the approach of your liking, provided it makes sense and you can describe it in the narrative.

You've chosen Clever (+3), and rolled -1, giving you a total of +2. Vs. her +6, that'll result in her establishing the Advantage (an Aspect, something like "In the Palm of My Hand") with Style, so she'll get two free invokes... which she'll likely use when trying to manipulate you, convince you to do something you don't want, agree your fee, etc.

You can absolutely now spend Fate Points (recall your have four) to start modifying the outcome. You can spend a Fate Point to invoke an Aspect, and by doing so add +2 to your result or re-roll the dice. It's good form to narrate when you invoke an aspect, but it's not exactly required. (It could be simple, "Having a will of iron, Duck McQuade wasn't swayed by the argument!" type stuff.)

To clear one point up there -- you don't spend the point to reroll... you spend it to invoke the Aspect, and there are a few things you can do from there:
  • +2 to your roll
  • Reroll
  • +2 on a companion's roll, aided by your aspect

Make sense? You don't have to decide to spend the point until after rolling (in *most*, but not all FATE games -- I think Age of Arthur works differently), but you *do* have to have a personal or scene aspect to tag.

Finally, you can indeed invoke more than one aspect... and regarding narrating all that, there's no need to describe every twist and turn in the results of the dice -- unless it makes for interesting storytelling. One of my favorite things about FATE: "zoom in," when it's interesting to do so. Otherwise, get on with it.
Sithraider
player, 5 posts
Tue 9 Sep 2014
at 18:00
  • msg #44

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

Frili:
Depending on which kind of group you have and what kind of DM you are, you could also opt to let the player tell you something about the artifact. Something like. "You do know the artifact. Where did you get your hands on it, and which troubles did you have to overcome to bring it to the merchant?"


This is one of my favorite GM tools.

"Ask questions, use the answers." You get tons of buy in from players this way.
Cloaca
player, 5 posts
Fate Points: 2
Tue 9 Sep 2014
at 18:41
  • msg #45

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

Harrigan:
To clear one point up there -- you don't spend the point to reroll... you spend it to invoke the Aspect, and there are a few things you can do from there:

Doah, saw this after my post and it REALLY makes sense now. As I wrote it, I basically - without realizing it, Invoked the Sewer Dwelling Ratling Aspect twice.

To prevent a complete re-write, I massaged it a bit using a different Aspect. Hope that is okay. If you want me to redo it I will, especially if you want her to have an Advantage on Cloaca as a further training example. But, yea, lesson learned. A pretty good one too. Hadn't noticed how it kind of keeps you from going crazy with the narrative. Interesting...

Let me know what you want me to do.


TB
Harrigan
GM, 82 posts
Wed 10 Sep 2014
at 05:15
  • msg #46

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

Think it's fine as-is, though in my next post I'll include an OOC to 'clean up' things a little and let you know what invokes and compels were tagged, etc.

Sorry for a slight delay here -- won't be posting until tomorrow night. Worked late, very tired. :P
The Bane
player, 27 posts
Wed 10 Sep 2014
at 10:18
  • msg #47

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

Harrigan:
Think it's fine as-is, though in my next post I'll include an OOC to 'clean up' things a little and let you know what invokes and compels were tagged, etc.

Sorry for a slight delay here -- won't be posting until tomorrow night. Worked late, very tired. :P

No worries, I am much a workzombie at the moment myself.
Harrigan
GM, 85 posts
Thu 11 Sep 2014
at 08:51
  • msg #48

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

I should note that at this stage, this is where different GMs do things very differently. Some keep all the scene and NPC aspects hidden -- they have to be discovered. Others list them so people know what they can tag. Do you have a preference?
The Bane
player, 30 posts
Thu 11 Sep 2014
at 21:45
  • msg #49

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

Harrigan:
I should note that at this stage, this is where different GMs do things very differently. Some keep all the scene and NPC aspects hidden -- they have to be discovered. Others list them so people know what they can tag. Do you have a preference?

Honestly I don't know. If we were face-to-face I would definitely think they should stay hidden because we could quickly discuss what type of Aspect I would be looking for. In this medium, not so sure. My knee jerk reaction would be a middle ground but not sure how it would play out.

That would be that if you Invoke an Aspect you mention it in the OOC section for Player knowledge but not Character knowledge. To kinda simulate how you would be role playing that Aspect in person. The Character would still need to successfully Create an Advantage to ID it then to 'exploit it'. Aspects not yet used would remain hidden. Which would help with NPCs that may not be completely fleshed out yet too, or ones that are progressing up from Mook to full fledged NPC.

Just a thought and might not be practical in practice.

What's your preference? I'm sure you have more experience so however you want to handle it is golden with me.

TB
Harrigan
GM, 87 posts
Sat 13 Sep 2014
at 14:52
  • msg #50

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

Sorry for the delay. See the IC post for how I normally handle it. I usually:

  • State the "obvious" scene aspects
  • Hold back a scene aspect or two -- 'secret' ones
  • Allow the players to discover those secret aspects or make up ones of their own by rolling
  • Keep the NPC aspects hidden until revealed by invoking or compelling.
  • Keep a running list of all that in OOC at the post of  the IC post

But that's just my style. Others reading this want to chime in?
The Bane
player, 31 posts
Sat 13 Sep 2014
at 20:13
  • msg #51

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

In reply to Harrigan (msg # 50):

Delays are expected, no worries, real life is always priority IMHO.

That works for me, and seems on par with the actual RAW. I only made a suggestion thinking about possible pitfalls for PbP. So, let's run with that.

Question:
You said she tied so got a Boost. Looking at the rules, it says a Boost can be invoked once for free then goes away, like you mentioned in the OOC. But how long can she hold that Boost over my character, assuming I don't use an Overcome action to remove it?

Best,
TB
Harrigan
GM, 89 posts
Sun 14 Sep 2014
at 16:12
  • msg #52

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

Answered over in the OOC...
Harrigan
GM, 90 posts
Sun 14 Sep 2014
at 16:12
  • msg #53

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

Oh, and I'm digging this too. We'll see how it goes -- maybe we'll keep it running, add a couple of other players once you're more comfortable, etc. Play it by ear.
The Bane
player, 32 posts
Thu 18 Sep 2014
at 10:19
  • msg #54

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

Sorry, work has gone crazy. I should have something up today.

TB
Harrigan
GM, 93 posts
Mon 22 Sep 2014
at 16:55
  • msg #55

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

My turn for the delay... Post coming today, I hope.
The Bane
player, 33 posts
Mon 22 Sep 2014
at 19:59
  • msg #56

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

In reply to Harrigan (msg # 55):

No worries. I have been busy myself.
The Bane
player, 34 posts
Mon 29 Sep 2014
at 19:16
  • msg #57

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

Dozen Gnolls + One Ratling = Not sure what to do really to be honest.

Years of "Balanced Encounters" and now FAE have made me a bit leery, which is also fitting for the character I suppose.

What I know I don't want to do is have any type of physical encounter with them.

Do I want to try and Create an advantage? Spend a FP to add a story element like rubble that I could hide behind and try to sneak in? Should I worry about zone, at least to know how many I would have to sneak through?

Thoughts...
Harrigan
GM, 95 posts
Tue 30 Sep 2014
at 15:30
  • msg #58

Re: Fate Training Grounds 1 - Setup & Discussion

Sorry, mismatched expectations here -- my fault. I'm not seeing this necessarily as a combat scene, but rather the Gnolls as an obstacle. They're not going to attack you on-sight, but just walking up to them might not be the best idea given their bullying behavior. I was thinking along the lines of creating a distraction, skirting them, using stealth, etc.

I *should* set up zones and establish scene aspects, though -- and I will tonight. Sorry for the delay, but work is pounding me yet again!
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