Use this thread to discuss acquiring a ship... We can just say that this is conversations that take place after everyone meets. Do it hear rather than waste time during the adventures and interrupt them.


Ship Shares:

Count Darrel Cromwell: 5 yacht (or 2 shares other)
                Ikram: none
          Kheaiftouaw: 1 share
            Quinzella: Scout ship (or 2 shares other)
     Samantha Kilgore: none
       Sharik Kaagira: 3 shares
        Vonon Ronkunu: 6 shares
    Sir Walter Zeller: 4 shares

If I got anyone wrong, just let me know and I'll edit it.
Revised.
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:55, Sun 10 Aug 2014.

I actually have a single share. I converted one of my Clan Shares to a Ship Share.

I was told mine was a Scout share.

In reply to Quinzella (msg # 3):

How did you get a single share for a scout ship?

The only ship specific shares I know are the 5 shares for a specific ship or 2 general shares like what Darrel has.

my character was ported from a game that saw no real play time.  My first time with the game.  The GM, my SO, told me the only way I could earn my way toward a ship was to get a share.  Then I was asked what type I preferred, and a Scout ship was the most appealing.  So I was told to mark it as such on my character sheet.

In reply to Quinzella (msg # 5):

Ah, ok.
But in general ship shares are not specific to a certain type of ship. Just some benefit rolls give you more shares when you use them for a specific kind of starship.

Actually, that is not entirely true.  Certain profession benefit from focusing their shares on a particular type of ship (Nobles -> Yachts, Scientists -> Lab Ship, Merchants -> Free Trader, &c.), where they get more shares (5 instead of 2) per benefit if they target a certain ship type.  This information is scattered about in the Mustering Benefits sections (Core, pp.34-6).

The IISS is unusual in that actually get allocated surplus scout ships as a benefit, but do not actually own the ship.  But the Scout Service also doesn't actually let their members retire.  Mustered scouts are actually on inactive/detached duty.  In theory, they can be recalled at any time.  It does say in the Core Rules (p.35) that a Scout Ship benefit can be traded in for 1d6 other/generic ship shares.

An idea...the khohgue armed junker..a Vargr ship...pg.20 (shared to google drive)
https://drive.google.com/file/...Ulk/edit?usp=sharing

Considering Vonon has the most shares, and it's possible a number of the group had met him in their travels..

It's a fine ship, and it meets alot of the needs for the group, including extras-luxuries...which, you wouldn't find on the normal trader, to a noble it's kind of mandatory...

Look it over; good jump/thrust, solar panels, hardpoints, it's almost ideal...

I made the GM decision for Quinzella that, like the other specified ship shares, her Scout ship translated as 2 shares for any non-specific ship. If she wants to roll 1d6 to determine how many random shares it translates into, be my guest.

Also, I couldn't remember who had the air/raft. That could also be used as 1 share.

so I can roll a d6 and "possibly" get more shares??

In reply to Darrel Cromwell (msg # 8):

500 tons? Isn't that a bit out of our league?

As I said there are two Aslan ships which are interesting.

One is a 200 ton courier. Its fast (Thrust 4 Jump 3), armored like a battleship (12 armor) 2 turrets and 8 tons of luxury.

Cons are only 7 tons of cargo, no launch

The other is the 300 ton light trader as jack of trades ship.

Thrust 1, Jump 2, 3 turrets, cargo space with launch and an air raft, low berths, etc.
It just does not have fuel processors, but it has scoops.

Both are in the 90MCr range. But getting Aslan ships will be hard to explain in game.



I suggest we each fill out a small questionnaire about what ship we will want.

Rate the following ship attributes from 1(don't need it) to 5 (very important)

_ Survivability (Armor and hull points)
_ M-Drive Speed
_ Jump range
_ Offensive power
_ Additional vehicles (launch/raft)
_ Sensors and Electronics
_ Luxuries
_ Additional passenger capacity
_ Cargo space

In reply to Quinzella (msg # 10):

I think he means the Scout Ship benefit roll of the scout career (roll of 6 or 7)
You either get a scout ship loaned from the scout services and have to work for them, or get 1d6 general ship shares.

You could also keep the ship. But while we would fit barely into it and it is sort of an allrounder (sans cargo space), I guess we are looking for something bigger and having two ships would be complicated.

All I know is my old notes said I had one share in a scout ship and I had the stats for a scout ship too.

well, size matters...;-)



Please send details...

http://s14.directupload.net/images/140810/fcgvqxnp.png

As I said, no processors and low thurst.

Some tonnage wasted for a shrine like on all Aslan ships, but I guess we can put an autodoc in there and plug it into the ships power somehow. I don't really mind that.

For completeness here the courier

http://s14.directupload.net/images/140810/spbelv5s.png

There are also several unarmed ships in the book which would be OK, but I guess we want at least one turret if not more.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:22, Sun 10 Aug 2014.

In reply to Kheaiftouaw (msg # 15):

Nice...but, you have 3 nobles in the group...luxuries..which only costs 3 tons/30000CR for a steward-3...

In reply to Darrel Cromwell (msg # 16):

Thats why I also posted the courier. It has more luxuries than staterooms and more than a yacht.

There are not that many ships which have lots of luxuries. And if you can stomach Aslan food and are desperate, I have Steward 1 (and a temper and a several inch long claw).
We could of course also design our own ship if the GM allows it. It will probably take a few days, but that time can be spend playing on the planet while the owner waits for the shipyard to finish it.

Btw, you forgot a 0 for the price of luxuries. They are 100k each.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:31, Sun 10 Aug 2014.

Yes. You have either a Scout ship (on loan from the Scout Service), or you can 'trade it in' for 1d6 generic ship shares. The default is 2, so you can roll and see if you actually got more shares.



While the list of ship qualities is fine, you may be getting a bit ahead of yourself. The choices would be individual preferences, not necessarily what the group wants. The group may decide that it doesn't want to engage in trade, for instance, so cargo space may not be necessary.

As I said elsewhere, I have a few ship options built into the game. Not that it can't change, but...

so 1 share and a ship OR 1d6 shares and no ship??

Sorry to ask so much, I just want to be sure I understand the decision before I make it.

No. It'd be 'Ship (on loan) and no shares', or 'no ship and 1d6 shares'.

In the case of the ship, you keep access to it, but don't actually have to have it at this time. As long as you keep that option, you can stroll into a Scout Base somewhere down the line and request use of one of their Scout Ships.

You are right.

So, here as I ass our priorities. But I am not all that knowledgeable so take it with a grain of salt.

From 1(don't need) to 5 (definatly need)
2 Survivability (Armor and hull points)
3 M-Drive Speed
3 Jump range
2 Offensive power
4 Additional vehicles (launch/raft)
3 Sensors and Electronics
3 Luxuries
3 Additional passenger capacity
3 Cargo space

I think we do not need all that much weapons and armor as long as we are fast. Jump 2 would be minimum in my opinion as otherwise we would be stuck in the spinward part of the sector (doesn't mean we necessarily go anywhere else, but having the option is good).
I think we should have at least one additional vehicle so we do not always have to bring in the whole ship. Some luxuries are needed for our nobles and I think it is always good to have an additional few staterooms for passengers and/or low berths just in case we need to take someone with us.
Same for cargo space. Its nice to have, but we do not need a freighter.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:51, Sun 10 Aug 2014.

I like that option, of the maybe use to the ship at a later time.

I will make it so on my sheet.

Uhhmmm, not really seeing the motivation in that...;-)

I do like the light trader...we throw out the kitty litter, the scratching post and the cat nip (maybe)...

Seriously, that looks fine, and it would only be a slight modification for ship stats for the luxuries...instead of having to redo a complete ship, which probably would be expensive/not likely...

And thanks for the 0 catch, I realized it after the post...

That would be Sharik.  So, she could potentially have 4 Ship Shares, if we don't need the air-raft (or if it is worth more, really, I guess).

Where's that?

I haven't revealed them yet. That's part of the adventure.

In reply to StarMaster (msg # 26):

Then I guess we stop here and let the adventure surprise us.

Ok..get my mercenary cruiser ready and bring champagne...

Can I have a tank??

Like maybe the Maus?!

(Note a German word is not in Google's English Dictionary)

As I think I said in the game notice, it's not a railroad game. I have ideas, but if you have other ideas, the adventure could very well go in that direction.

Well my idea is ridiculous and involves a tank built in WWII that the Germans AND the Russians agreed was not practical.  It was essentially a building on wheels.

this goes back to the realism/OOC/IC/ease of play debate...

The reason I mentioned the Vargr ship, was because 4 of the characters (1/2 the group) might have realistically met and discussed ships...this would cover 3 of the 4 basic concepts...

Other than that, I have no preference...other than luxury.

My vote is going to be for large cargo space. What we might do is spend some extra money to upgrade the 10 staterooms for the crew (Double sized for the ship owners?)  Most of the low berths could be removed to add another berth or maybe a med bay, small craft, etc. And if we just do cargo, we do not have to worry about the extra guests wanting to hijack it. If we arm it, we could make sure to leave 5 tons of space for mail and that will help towards the overhead.

My vote is still for a Maus (even though I explained the facetiousness of the joke already removing the actual comedy to all but me)

I got the reference at first glance. (BA in History and WWII buff) Heir Schicklgruber must have had penis envy (Look at the Karl or the Dora)

Just remember, spacecraft have much better firepower them most ground vehicles. (one Group I played with had a VRF Gauss gun mounted to the bottom of the Free Trader. Great for strafing runs.)

The more general purpose, the better, for me.

Vonon wants to be able to:

Carry speculative cargos
Hunt Pirates
Run Blockades
Smuggle guns to "the Rebels"
Scout new planets
Participate in a Blockade
NOT carry Passengers (unless we're hired as a Troop Transport)
Do whatever pisses off the Carrillian Alliance

And he wants to do it ALL AT ONCE ^_^


And pass on the Maus.  Gimme 5 Tiger-II's with Waffen-SS crews and I will show you such professional, industrial-scale destruction as to mimic the very landscape of Hell. Until I run out of gasoline....

...or just 1 Tech-14 Gravtank.  Whichever you think is fair ^_^

Well, a few choices offered from the GM...

Instead of spending a long time in IC discussion, we can hash it out here, then have a short IC "meeting"...that is once we've all linked up IC...



                              FOR SALE CHEAP!

        DELTA 100-Tonne Courier-class starship with Zyrix hull design.
                         Excellent condition.  Willing to deal.
                  Contact Karma Verchata, Starport District, X970-Z567.
_____________________________________________________________________

                            Pre-Owned Starships:

Elegant-Class Yacht Light Fantastic
Aggressor-Class Corsair Eternal Knight
Animal-Class Safari Ship Jaguar
Devastator-Class Heavy Assault Ship Night Thunder

Visit us for a hands-on guided tour of these classic ageless beauties!
                       Starrider Pre-Owned Starships
                             Docking Bay 11-15
                                Beowulf Down
____________________________________________________________________

                       F O R   S A L E

Modified Type A2 Far Trader Last Chance; 20 years old.
Assume payments; pay just MCr5.5.
Good condition; full software, weapons, extras.

How is a Devastator-Class Heavy Assault Ship on the list for a Used Starship lot, you asked?

Easy. She's been stripped. We'll be lucky to find she still has life support, and that half the lightbulbs aren't burned out.

But I still want her.....

^_^

Who knows? But, that's way up on pricey...it's a small warship...which costs...and, it just doesn't meet the needs of the group as a whole....

As far as I can see, "to fit the group", we've got the Corsair or Modified Type A2 Far Trader.

We could argue for RL years the merits or demerits of each....Let's put it to a vote...ship shares count as 1 vote...that might not seem fair, but, ship shares save money and are important...so, such is life.

Agreed?

I spend my 2 votes on the corsair.

While I agree with the sentiment, we should probably wait until the group has actually formed up into one group, and, maybe, after we've decided what we, as a group, want to do.

While I like the "sandbox" style of play, it does frequently tend to start with a lack of direction; we don't know what the frack we're doing ^_^

All good points, which is why, since we're all here, OOC...we could basically settle on a ship, because if we do this IC..it'll be a mess/lengthy...

And, yes, it's early for a major decision...IE a group ship...

I might be misunderstood in this....

We need a group ship, whatever it might be...but, unless we decide here....doing this IC....I see no reason for that, until we, collectively, make a choice.

Just trying to simplify.

Anyways, I'm up for whatever..rock and roll!!!!

It might be that we need to come to some kind of agreement as to who is in charge before we figure out the vessel as otherwise it going to be hard with 8 Captains. As for the vessel, one ship share equaling a vote/share in the new enterprise works for me.

I was going to push for a Free or Far trader but I like the look of the Corsair with its large cargo load and the same range as the Far Trader. If we were merc commanders, then the Assault ship might be a good choice.

Abiding by the fact it's open ended, at least in my mind, the corsair covers pretty much all the basics you personally had mentioned in MSG#36

Who's the "boss"? relatively...Aggghhhh, that's a really good question.

Honestly, I'd go with the largest ship share holder...being Vonon (6 ship shares?).

However, the practicality of that is problematic.

I volunteer to be the guy in charge.

I'll not waste time on the pros/cons, you guys can figure that out yourselves.

Ah!! I've been Out-ed!!

Yes, after Vonon's long Navy career, he held out exclusively for money and Ship Shares. I was hoping to keep that quiet, so I could reveal it dramatically...

As for determining the Captain...

I suggest we all stand back-to-back, in a circle, holding a large Peacock feather. At the GM's count, we all take one step forward, then turn and tickle. Last person not laughing should definately not be the Captain; too much of a rigid stick-in-the-mud.

Oh, wait...you wanted to know who should be Captain...

Right. Well. That's easy...(pulls out a heavy automatic pistol)...

No SHip shares so no say on the ship - seems reasonable - as I can just as easily walk away from any debt we get into....

As for whose the captain - I think the most Ship shares work, as realistically, if you own it your in charge of it (or even more of it than anyone else) - but they could decide to pass it to someone more suitable if they haven't the skills.

That's almost certainly not Sam tho
This message was last edited by the player at 07:46, Fri 22 Aug 2014.

The Devastator certainly has a lot of redundancies...

I personally do not have that much requirements on the ship we get. I just want to remind you that Grendal lies in a small pocket you can only get out of with Jump-2.
Not that we necessarily will go outside during this game, but imo it is good to have the option.

By the way, what are the stats of that Safari ship?
This message was last edited by the player at 07:42, Fri 22 Aug 2014.

Well, in combat, the Captain should likely be the sophont with the highest Tactics (naval) *looks straight at Vonon*.  Of course, if that person is the pilot, we may have issues (there are some -ve DMs for trying to do multiple actions during space combat).

That said, I would prefer not to get into too much space combat.  Ship repairs are really expensive.

Out of combat, we can have a different Captain - though as others have noted/intimated, PCs are an independent lot.  So, that job is a bit thankless and more than a bit like herding cats (no offense, Khea).  Shar (and her player) are fine if Darrel wants that job.  Hopefully, whoever it is, isn't too autocratic...:)

---

Getting a corsair (which is expensive at 197+ MCr - ~800 KCr/month in mortgage - before ship shares are deducted) is a weighty prospect.  Even with 100+ tonnes of freight every couple of weeks, I don't believe that we can break even (even with Walter's rather prodigious skill as a broker).  That means we need a fair amount of capital to speculate ... or we are taking 'odd jobs' (smuggling, above and below the board courier work, ... er... privateering (?), merc jobs, &c.).

Plus, even the eight of us is not enough to skeleton crew a corsair.  Crew-wise, from what I can see, Vonon is pilot, Kheaiftouaw is engineer and Walter is broker.  Sharik could be astrogator/co-pilot (though I suspect that Quinzella could be that also).  Sam is bridge crew with her Sensors and Comms experience - which Shar and Q also have).  Darrel is a face man.  And Ikram appears to be Chief of Security.

We are (potentially) short engineers (essential, if we are to get a larger ship) - like a corsair that requires three; though I suppose that Walter and Darrel can server as engineers (as well as Shar and Q) in a pinch...:).  And we need a doctor (yes, I am aware that Q and V have Medic/1 and a number of others have Medic/0), which if we are going to take 'odd jobs' and not strictly trading may end up with us getting hurt...  Just saying, we may need to get either an autodoc or hire someone with slightly more medical experience.

Keep in mind that the price of used ships will be a bit less than if they are new.

There are enough shares to reduce the price another 10% minimum. It depends on how many shares will get tossed in.

A though question.

It seems that it is either the Far Trader or the Corsair. Although I found some descriptions for the Safari Ship which also sound interesting so I withhold my vote till I see its specifications.

Both the Corsair and Far trader have their advantages, but in my opinion the lack of fuel scoops and standard hull of the Corsair really hurts.

And just for clarification, are we talking about the Corsair in the main book or a different variant? Because the one I see costs only 142 MCr and not 197.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:33, Fri 22 Aug 2014.

In that case the Far Trader wins. The cost savings alone on being able to use a gas giant or water for fuel will give us a big advantage to keeping it in the red. Once we make the money to pay it off, we might be able to design our own vessel.

In reply to Walter Zeller (msg # 50):

Can a Class C Starport even build ships? If not we need to get to Outpost first.
By the way, should I be worried that our expert trader wants to keep us in the red?
This message was last edited by the player at 00:02, Sat 23 Aug 2014.

Mea Culpa on the confusion.  It was my mistake.  142 MCr is correct (with no weapons).  Only ~600 KCr per month in mortgage (before any ship shares, of course).

More doable, but still a stretch with both cargo (depending on speculative cargo seed - money begets money in this simplified monetary system) and crew.

I believe that the Safari Ship is in Supplement 2: Traders and Gunboats.  Ah, yes here on pp. 50-1.  Unfortunately, I don't have an electronic copy (only paper). If I get the time later tonight, I will try to put the stats up (assuming someone else hasn't done so and/or doesn't have easier access to it).

Future plans. It would take a while for construction to begin let alone designed.

Can we have a ship like The Normandy??

You mean a ship that catches fire on the pier in New York city?

In reply to Quinzella (msg # 54):

It depends on what you mean with "like" the Normandy.

Like stealthy, lotsa weapons, great shields, probes, power reserves, staterooms aplenty, nice warroom, etc.

In reply to Quinzella (msg # 57):

If we have the money for it it is certainly possible to design something like that. Although I do not know if the Normandy was that well armed. It was after all just a frigate.
Anyway, all options you listed seem to be in the book, although some of them are rather costly (more than what the entire far trader would cost) and have a high tech level.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:25, Sat 23 Aug 2014.

The second Normandy had guns that could cut through Collector shields, something no one else could, including the original Normandy.

In reply to Quinzella (msg # 59):

Thats a bit stretching it. It had the firepower of a cruiser, thats all. Meson weapons would probably be equivalent in Traveller but I have my doubts that we will ever be able to afford, acquire or need them. A ship like the Normandy would probably cost more than 500 Million.

but Normady = Awesomeness!!

Yeah, I like the Safari ship, too. And we can easilly convert the "holding tanks" into cargo bays.

And I love the design; it appeals to my old-school sensabilities (shades of The Flying Sub).

As I mentioned before, whatever ships we find on Grendal are not only gonna be stripped of several major systems -- anybody notice that, while the Devastator had the silouettes of a pair of small guns, there were no other weapons shown? -- but, being on a backwater world like Grendal, these ships will probably be old. like, a hundred years old, maybe.

One more plug for the Devastator... ^_^

I take it for granted that all serious weapons will have been removed, but I'm willing to bet the majority of her armor is still stuck to the hull. We're talking Battle-grade armor, not just the defensive stuff on a civilian ship. That means survivability.

Star*Master mentioned he'd added a second deck. I'm guessing that the "original" intent for that space would have been Ship Bays and Troop Quarters. Even if that's what they still are, we could probably convert most of it to cargo bays.

Plus...C'mon!! It looks cool!! ^_^ We fly into a system in that ship and nobody will mess with us! It doesn't matter that we ain't got guns -- nobody has to know that ^_^

And while this may be one of the larger of the ships available, this beast is probably a relic from the Third Frontier War ^_^

I believe the Devastator is only Jump-1 ...  Can't get it off of the local cluster without droptanks (and big ones at that).

Maybe I am reading the entry wrong, but doesn't the Devastator only have 2 points of low grade titanium armor? The Far Trader has more than that, mainly because each batch of Crysaliron armor gives you 4 points or armor.

Animal class safari ship I uploaded to googledrive...you'll have to max zoom in to see clearly.

https://drive.google.com/file/...Zms/edit?usp=sharing

let me know if it works.

Works perfectly, Darrel.  I can see the ship stats.

The Safari ship has no fuel scoops by default either.  And as Vonon noted, it's cargo bay (which is only 20+ tons) would have to be converted...

Also I have no idea what most of the special qualities do. Aerofins? Solar Power Plant? Autocannons? Not in the books I know.

Still, apart from the lack of Scoops it is in my eyes a good all around ship.
A pity that there are so few 300ton ships. I think those would be prefect for our group.

This version does have fuel scoops at the front of the fuel tanks.
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:15, Sat 23 Aug 2014.

Is it possible to also keep cargo inside the cargo hold of the launch during interstellar travel? If yes those are another 13 tons.

Are those stats from Classic Traveller?
This message was last edited by the player at 18:22, Sat 23 Aug 2014.

Oooooh, the Millennium Falcon, or maybe the Ebon Hawk

It is a nice ship, although yes, the small cargo (which would probably have to be modified) would limit us to high-value items, which might be problematic depending on the world(s) we'd be operating from/to.

The fuel scoops are a welcome addition to this ship, and if we get rid of the low berths (5 tons), put in fuel processors (2=2 tons), which would also add an additional 3 tons cargo...

It would meet most of the conditions we were looking for...although we would need to eventually switch out one of the double turrets for a triple and add some offensive firepower.

One thing about the far trader;
Modified Type A2 Far Trader Last Chance; 20 years old.
Assume payments; pay just MCr5.5.
Good condition; full software, weapons, extras
.

I'm interested to see what that means exactly....

Actually, those stats are a blend of CT and MonT.

I'm pretty sure the reference was from Mongoose Traveller's Traders and Gunboats.

It does seem to be inconsistent with its own rules, though, as the rules say 5% of crystaliron is a value of 4, and streamlined ships automatically have fuel scoops.

With Scoops that ship looks a lot better.
How much cargo space do we realistically need?

And how much freedom have we with remodeling the ship? I guess exchanging turrets will take some time in a shipyard but should be possible. What about interior changes like replacing the low berths? But I guess that depends a lot on the deck plan. If the berths are far away from the rest of the storage area it would be pretty hard to store cargo there.
And what about software upgrades?

Obviously, alot of this is stuff to accomplish in IC...my worry, once we decide and use our "shares" on a ship....that's it, we're stuck with it until other circumstances arrive that might allow the group a different ship...and I feel that isn't going to happen very often.

As I see things, shares are a one time commitment thing...calling favors, contacts, getting good deals..and getting your ship...once you've shot your bolt....

Then again, I might be wrong, depends on the GM...


It's always better to have than have not. Just from the standpoint of every time the ship lifts off, no matter the cargo, we meet our expenses...and on certain worlds...the only way we can do that is in bulk cargo....Understand?

Concerning remodeling, not being the GM, I'd imagine ripping out lowberths (and maybe getting some credits) would be fairly simple....and yes depending on location, might be problematic, however, inventiveness is never in short supply when it come to players..like your comment about the 13 tons of launch space....

Software upgrades/better turrets/etc...will likely require a higher grade starport...which, with luck, we'll get too eventually.

No worries, we survive the 8pm meeting and then carry on, we'll get a ship, let's just make sure it's the right one... ;-)

Yoo know what has a lot of cargo space??  The Giant Big Boy at the end of Austin Powers.

True...however, I'm trying to focus on realistic fantasy and not penis orientated things...

oops

*blushes*

For the time being, a smaller vessel, while more likely to get attacked, would be better for our budget. While there is no guarantee that there will be mail, doing it once a month will help with the overhead. And if not, then we have 5 tons more of space for hauling things.  The "extras" does have me curious. If it is smugglers space, just leave them empty a few times or call them emergency cargo space.

We can start with 1-5K per ton cargo as speculation and expand from there.

Concur with ripping out the low berths. Even getting half price for them (25kcr ea.) that will make a good nest egg for speculation (150kcr)

As you had mentioned earlier..fuel processors (at least 1 ton)..a real need....that easy stuff...

I guess before we make extensive remodeling discussions we first have to decide on a ship and also see its deck plan.

By the way, can anyone explain the special qualities of the Safari ship like Metal Hydride Storage?

Far trader has scoops and purification plant (2 tons)  If we later covert a few tones into additional purification plants, it will help speed up the wait for it to be converted. Over 2 days now, an additional 3 tons of them would get it done in under a day.

Yep. Well, it's a "merchant's dream"...Honestly, I give less than a damn about our ship in a way....only in the sense what makes sense for us.

Metal hydride storage is a battery, presumably meant as an emergency backup to the power plant.

I'm guessing they were explained in the supplement that the ship stats came from.

They didn't call it a battery probably to eliminate confusion with a 'weapons battery'.

I googled that term and came up with storing hydrogen by bonding it to metal. It would be nice if someone with the expanded ship books could find the rules for the Metal Hydride storage, the solar panels, aerofins, multi environment space and autocannons.

Ahhhh....well...I'll work on that, but not tonight...too many Guinness to think straight...or even sideways.

The more I think about it, perhaps the far trader is our best bet...it's simple and I'm hoping that some of the modifications/extras prove useful.

I got High Guard a few days ago and now it makes sense that the Safari Ship does not have scoops.
It's kinda hard to refill at a gas giant when you store the fuel in solid form.

With a bit of time on the trip back from the dome, Walter started checking out the various ads to see if there is a vessel that will fit the groups needs, starting with Far Trader Last Chance and Aggressor-Class Corsair Eternal Knight

Darrel will check the official/unoffical imperial database for any information concerning the Far Trader Last Chance and the Corsair Eternal Knight for any discrepancies in their history, paperwork and general overall news.

OOC:08:42, Today: Darrel Cromwell rolled 14 using 2d6+5.  data check for ships. +1 advocate, +2 Int mod, +1 Skill augment, +1 program.

I just wanted to ensure that there's no catches to our potential ship.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:42, Tue 01 Sept 2015.

In terms of ships, I think having a t least a few passengers for berths isn't a bad idea. With a GMs view - that probably gives more scope for plot hooks (eg "it turns out the passenger you are carrying is the heir to the imperial throne, travelling incognito....")

Which leads into the "And then a Sylea class Battleship...."

Actually you're right, we do need space for passengers, just because you never know when we have guests.

I was thinking that if that is the case, we might double up some of us to make room for any passengers. But it had better be a good reason so we do not have a Sylea class Battleship pay us a social call like you said.

Looking into the ships, Darrel and Walter find the following information:

The Last Chance is 20 years old, has only had one owner, and there is no record of damage to it. The owner took out a second mortgage on the ship. The MCr5.5 is to pay off the 2nd mortgage, and you'd take over the remaining 28 payments.


The Eternal Knight is 40 years old, has had 3 previous owners, and was involved in a mid-air collision with another starship. It sustained some hull damage, but was repaired and signed off on by inspectors.

  If it's possible for either them or Kaengarr to find out (since he has also been looking), how many more payments are left on The Eternal Knight, and how much are the individual payments on each?
This message was last edited by the player at 06:40, Sat 05 Sept 2015.

Last Chance and Eternal Knight

Arranging thorough ship inspections for the 2 ships through the best independent ship investigators, to happen from 8-12. We will be involved.

OOC: All paperwork, logs, and manifests examined. And of course the most detailed examination of the ship itself.
This message was last edited by the player at 02:04, Wed 16 Sept 2015.

Except for the monthly upkeep the corsair looks to be equal or better than the trader in every way. And as longs as we stay in the area between the Hierate and Imperium even the strong weapons wouldn't be all that suspicious except in very restrictive systems. If the Pirates of Drinax adventures are any indication, piracy is quite a problem in such areas.

Has someone calculated how much money we can expect to make every month, barring payments for special services?

The premise I'm working on is that space/starships depreciate at the rate of 1% per year, up to a maximum of 90%. There is always at least a 10% value left in an old ship just from the scrap metal if nothing else.

Banks finance ships for 40 years, giving the owner 10 good years of operating the ship. After 50 years, it's up to the owner to keep it running.

Depreciation, of course, would indicate that ships are designed to last 100 years, and they are often serviceable for much longer than that.

In the case of the Eternal Knight Corsair, its current 'book value' is Cr85,676,400. The number of payments will depend on what you negotiate with the bank. Likewise, the actual value of the payments will depend on how many ship shares you toss in and  how many months you are financing it for.

The Last Chance Far Trader, on the other hand, has 28 remaining payments at Cr194,673.

As an additional adjustment, the Corsair has the equivalent of 15 shares because of it's age and condition (used), and the Far Trader has 6 shares.

  If I'm interpreting the above correctly, the corsair's total costs would be about 180,500 cr per month (for a full 40-year mortgage) since we'd have an effective total of 37 shares with it, while the far trader's remaining mortgage (5,850,844 total) would cost only slightly less at about 175,500 per month assuming that we have an effective total of 28 shares to put against it.

  It's not much of a cost difference and the corsair is a much more capable ship (with far more cargo capacity to boot), although we'd only have room for low passengers since the standard staterooms don't allow for double occupancy. (Depending on how many characters are still here, of course - there might be 1-2 free regular staterooms.)

  The much greater cargo capacity should more than outweigh the additional costs. It might be more of a burden to actually sell the thing if we want to trade it out afterward, though (at the naval yard as Vonon is suggesting IC), although even here the book value of the corsair (85.7 Mcr) is much better than that of the trader (~31 Mcr if it's coming off a 40-year mortgage).
This message was last edited by the player at 11:35, Sun 20 Sept 2015.

I am more concerned with how much money we can expect to make each month on average.

A lot of that depends on fate, cargo and where we go. Using 11's for buying and selling, cargoes that will always be available at each destination and Walter's stats, below is a rough idea as to the "possible" profits that can be made. As a rough guess with two deliveries a month, figure 4,000 profit per ton per month, the Corsair would average 640,000 a month, the Far trader 256,000.

(I am intentionally low balling the profit margin as we could end up with no good cargoes. We could also end up having the vessel paid off in under 6 months if there are some great cargoes.)

Route one is Grendal - Tashrakaar - Traneer - Outpost - Grendal
Route 2 is Grendal - Tashrakaar - Tharrill - Drellesarr - Datinar - Yarhfahl - Grendal

Data was calculated using the trade calculator at Traveller Highport http://travellerhighport.aws.af.cm

Normal prices per ton for goods are
Basic Electronics-10,000 Basic Machine Parts-10,000 Basic Manufactured Goods-10,000 Basic Raw Materials-5,000 Basic Consumables-2,000 Basic Ore-1,000
Those marked with ! are 4kcr or more profit per ton.

Grendal to Tashrakaar

Goods                      Purchase price  Sell Price  Profit
Basic Electronics          7,500           13,500      6,000 !
Basic Machine Parts        8,000           15,000      7,000 !
Basic Manufactured Goods   8,000           15,000      7,000 !
Basic Raw Materials        4,000            6,750      2,750
Basic Consumables          1,600            2,400        800
Basic Ore                    800            1,250        450


Tashrakaar to Traneer

Goods                      Purchase price  Sell Price  Profit
Basic Electronics          8,500           11,500      4,000 !
Basic Machine Parts        9,500           15,000      5,500 !
Basic Manufactured Goods   9,500           15,000      5,500 !
Basic Raw Materials        4,500            5,250        700
Basic Consumables          1,600            2,100        500
Basic Ore                    850            1,250        400


Traneer to Outpost

Goods                      Purchase price  Sell Price  Profit
Basic Electronics          8,500           11,500      3,000
Basic Machine Parts        9,500           15,000      5,500 !
Basic Manufactured Goods   9,500           15,000      5,500 !
Basic Raw Materials        3,250            6,000      2,750
Basic Consumables          1,300            2,400        900
Basic Ore                    850            1,250        400


Outpost to Grendal

Goods                      Purchase price  Sell Price  Profit
Basic Electronics          7,500           11,500      4,000 !
Basic Machine Parts        9,500           12,000      2,500
Basic Manufactured Goods   9,500           12,000      2,500
Basic Raw Materials        3,250            6,000      2,750
Basic Consumables          1,300            2,400        900
Basic Ore                    850            1,250        400


Tashrakaar to Tharrill

Goods                      Purchase price  Sell Price  Profit
Basic Electronics          8,500           12,000      3,500
Basic Machine Parts        9,000           15,000      6,000 !
Basic Manufactured Goods   9,000           15,000      6,000 !
Basic Raw Materials        4,250            5,500      1,250
Basic Consumables          1,500            2,200        700
Basic Ore                    800            1,250        450


Tharrill to Drellesarr

Goods                      Purchase price  Sell Price  Profit
Basic Electronics          7,500           12,000      3,500
Basic Machine Parts        9,000           15,000      6,000 !
Basic Manufactured Goods   9,000           15,000      6,000 !
Basic Raw Materials        3,250            6,000      2,750
Basic Consumables          1,300            2,400      1,100
Basic Ore                    800            1,250        450


Drellesarr to Datinar

Goods                      Purchase price  Sell Price  Profit
Basic Electronics          9,000           13,500      4,500 !
Basic Machine Parts        9,500           12,500      3,000
Basic Manufactured Goods   9,500           12,500      3,000
Basic Raw Materials        4,000            6,750      2,750
Basic Consumables          1,600            2,400        800
Basic Ore                    850            1,250        400


Datinar to Yarhfahl

Goods                      Purchase price  Sell Price  Profit
Basic Electronics          9,000           12,000      3,000
Basic Machine Parts        8,500           13,500      5,000 !
Basic Manufactured Goods   8,500           13,500      5,000 !
Basic Raw Materials        4,500            5,250        750
Basic Consumables          1,600            2,100        500
Basic Ore                    850            1,200        350


Yarhfahl to Grendal

Goods                      Purchase price  Sell Price  Profit
Basic Electronics          8,000           11,500      3,500
Basic Machine Parts        9,000           12,000      3,000
Basic Manufactured Goods   9,000           12,000      3,000
Basic Raw Materials        3,250            6,000      2,750
Basic Consumables          1,300            2,400      1,100
Basic Ore                    800            1,200        400


Now a lot depends on the cargo but the Corsair is looking better since we have the larger cargo space, it is better armed (but not armored like the Far trader) and far more maneuverable.

  If it helps your calculations, Kaengarr has been doing some work in anticipation of his meeting with Walter and has located some cargoes beyond the basics:

  20 tons of fish, fish tanks, and/or frozen fish.
  5 tons of sculptures. Another 5 tons will be available in one week.
  2 tons of pharmaceuticals. A good Broker might get more...
  2 tons of spices and gourmet foods. Another 2 tons would be available in a month (probably too long to wait).

  There's also one lot of Beryllium spheres available as freight. I don't know the destination though.
This message was lightly edited by the player at 19:46, Sun 20 Sept 2015.

One thing we should ask ourselves though is what we want this game to be. A trader game? Or more like troubleshooter with trading as a side business? A noble delegation working (directly or indirectly) for the Imperium. Something else?
This message was last edited by the player at 20:51, Sun 20 Sept 2015.

  In absence of anything else we still need to pay the bills, and I'm sure that we'll run into unexpected developments as we're going from planet to planet...

As a test, using 1 Mcr as seed money to start, 11's for the rolls and Traveller Highport to generate the cargo and sizes.(Figuring that the first months life support was part of the ship purchase along with refueling at gas giants.)

Grendal to Tashrakaar 1,000,000 purchased 960,000 balance 40,000
50 tons Basic Manufactured Goods @ 8,000/15,000 Buy/sell 400,000/750,000 (350,000)
40 tons Basic Electronics @ 7,500/13,500 Buy/sell 300,000/540,000 (240,000)
10 tons Basic Machine Parts @8,000/15,000 Buy/sell 80,000/150,000 (70,000)
50 tons Basic Raw Materials @4000/6,750 Buy/sell 200,000/337500 (137500)
10 tons basic Consumables @1600/2,400 Buy/sell 16,000/24,000 (8,000)
Balance after 1st delivery 1,840,000 (801,500 profit-Berthing cost (1d6x10)& food 1,500 total)

Tashrakaar to Traneer start 1,840,000 purchased 1,833,200 balance 6,800
60 tons Basic Machine Parts @ 9500/15,000 Buy/sell 570,000/900,000
30 tons Crystals & gems @ 16000/27000 Buy/sell 480,000/810,000
40 tons Basic Manufactured Goods @ 9500/15,000 Buy/Sell 380,000/600,000
1 ton robots @320,000/540,000
20 tons basic Ore 850/1250 Buy/Sell 17,000/25,000
7 tons Basic Electronics 9000/12500 63,000/87,500
2 tons Basic Consumables 1,600/2,100 3,200/4,200
Balance after 2nd delivery 2,973,500 (No change for berthing)
End of month
Life support/Maintenance 33,900
Rough guess on the payments for the Corsair 400,000
Balance 2,539,600 - starting money = 1,539,600 profit in the first month using the corsair.

That´s a really good question.

If we approach this as a "trader game, IE numbers game", technically, at least to a certain extent, each and everyone one of us has the potential(for those that already aren´t) to be multi-millionaires, although I´m fairly sure that in some shape, form or whatnot, the GM will make it interesting.

The question is, how difficult or easy do we, as a group, want to make it?

And, realistically, at what point would your character say, "Damn, I´m rich, what am I doing riding around in space risking my life...when I could be sitting back, wearing the best clothes, drinking the best whatever, have the best creature comforts, have all that I ever thought possible, what is my motivation?

Well, that´s something the GM and I discussed as we were getting my character organized, especially once I hit the Count level. There was alot of back and forth, which basically revolved around why someone who has it all, would pursue certain lifestyles, such as doing actually what we are now talking about.

Throughout history, even some of the most privileged wanted to make a mark, and the motivation covered all the basics of human nature(non-fantasy for a moment)....Greed, personal agendas, glory, fame, altruistic, adventure, because it was there....whatever.

Anyways, sorry I was off on a tangent there....

My point, everyone needs money, and once you feel comfortable with that amount that makes you feel secure, then all the other issues come into play.

Perhaps this should have been standard OOC.

With that said, I´m for the corsair, once we get through with the inspection group I sent for the morning (we should do that IC).

  I wouldn't worry too much about us being millionaires. The way prices work in this game, a million doesn't last very long! As for the cash flow, most of our characters would probably be able to manage reasonably well at other careers without taking all of the risks inherent to space travel, so money alone isn't likely to make them retire. It's nice to have though, especially if we're going to do anything significant later - a big piggy bank is necessary if you want to make your mark in a universe like this.

  "The Cromwell Consortium" has a nice ring, doesn't it? ;)

There's clearly something wrong with their Trade system. If it was that easy to make a million credits a month, EVERYONE would be doing it!


As it is, I've been trying to figure out a way to run a Trader campaign without having to do all that math. Someone resolve it just using a single dice roll.

After all, not everyone is going to want to do all that number crunching. THAT game is called Papers & Paychecks!


As for the nature of the campaign, I've been tentatively thinking of it as a sort of Free-wheeling Campaign, but the point of the first adventure was to get everyone together and then see how they work things out.

  The book actually suggests/recommends offloading the trade work to the players entirely since it's faster to have them handle it rather than going through a bunch of back-and-forth with the GM.

  As for the numbers there... I think the high-end Broker on the team has something to do with it. :)

So, you're saying our Broker is... broken?

  I don't think it's JUST about the Broker skill - some of those cargoes, even the basic ones, can return a pretty high margin if there's a good world combination available, even if you don't have a good broker. Basic Machine Parts and Basic Manufactured Goods from an Industrial World to a Non-Industrial World (+5 modifier on the purchase, +3 modifier on the sale), for example.

To begin with, not that many people would have the million credits for seed money let alone the money for a vessel to transport it. Part of the issue is that the broker skill factors in both buying and selling cargo.  Between his INT and the Broker skill, it swings them 10 points, on average about 50% profit.  The numbers are also not factoring in any modifiers that you might have(let alone any taxes that might be due). Taking 160 tons of cargo to a million+ person system would not be a problem, taking it to one with a E starport and 1000 people might mean waiting an extra day or two to unload (if they can afford it) and another day or two to load a cargo (if they had one) (Maybe a -2 modifier for planets with 5 pop, -4 4 pop, etc)

The 1.5Mcr earned in a month would barely buy a turret and pulse laser for the ship, let alone any repairs. If we got attacked and one of the drives got knocked out, it could run 20-40+ Mcr to repair it (if we survived)

(In CT, Walter's broker-4 would mean that he was only available at a Class A starport)

Also, living expenses will play a part. For Darrel, he will be spending 12kcr a month for his life style (Going through what we earned in 8 months, where Walter would do it in 20 months.)

My 2 creds worth

Trading is the rationale behind how you can afford to have your own ship, but roleplaying that only would get fairly dull fairly quickly.

I tend to think of the game being more like a TV season of Firefly (you could substitute similar other series, but Firefly is the only one where they are actually trading). I am not sure (and if you out geek me, and I'm wrong, fine), but I am assuming that in between episodes there were plenty of milk run trades where they made enough to keep flying, but the episodes were the 'fun' or more interesting jobs.

In Traveller terms they would be the ones where the GM rolled "pirates" or something similar on the encounter tables, or deliberately tried to guide them to a particular patron and job.

So in terms of game whilst I am happy for number crunching to happen, the interest comes from the bits that make the TV episodes. That said, a bit of routine about the trades will help us flesh out the TU we are in, in terms of giving us a standard baseline of normal (eg is an imperial Cruiser when we Jump in normal for that system, or not? Unless we've done some milk runs how might we know).

I am running a Traveller game in RL, but have never played it until I joined RPOl (and this is the second game, the first one folded really quickly), and am just a first time GM-ing it, so I too am interested in the one roll trade idea for that game, because if the Characters are not that bothered about the nitty gritty of maximizing their trade, then that whole system can be ignored.

Separately, the only motivation Sam appears to have at the moment, is a reasonably steady paycheck, you get the impression that she ended up on Grendal skint and with few options, you guys are (currently...) her best option, realistically her only one, for making a bit of coin...

Excellent summation, Sam!

Yeah, unless everyone is jiggy with the number-crunching trade system, most will get bored if only 2 or 3 are.

I'm leaning towards the group deciding how much they want to invest in trade, then make a roll and use the margin to determine degree of success. Starport will probably be the modify, as it's a general representation of a planet's financial status.


The other consideration is Patrons. I realize that's supposed to be the raison d'etre for Traveller adventures, and if that's what everyone wants to do, I'm fine with that. On the other hands, I was half expecting everyone to get into trouble on their own.

Also, in the Count's case, he would normally be the Patron. Who would be Darrel's patron?

The number crunching can be done on a separate board so that it does not slow down the pace.

Since we are jump two with a 160 ton cargo hull, we might get missions to transport bulky cargo like drives for the scouts/navy rather than speculation ones, or we jump in, find a disabled scout craft and asked to take it back (or better yet, find it empty with a clutch of eggs...).

As for Darrell's patron, most likely it would be the Imperium. Word might have gotten back to an Imperial agent already and wants to have a little chat with him concerning what was found.

(Looking over the Corsair check to see if it was modified with fuel processors as it will get real expensive to take up with refined fuel (or we can take the -2 to jumps and see where we end up))

  EDIT: Okay, the corsair lacks scoops and processors. The processors aren't very expensive (50,000 cr), although they do take up one ton of cargo space. Adding scoops doesn't use up any space but is more expensive (1,000,000 cr).

  Even if we can't afford the scoops right now (there's something for our first million...) the processors are a good investment since they'll let us buy unrefined fuel without creating a jump hazard.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:12, Mon 21 Sept 2015.

Does it even have fuel scoops? A corsair is not streamlined.
Adding them might be a bigger modification as the hull has to be cut open. That might go above the capabilities of a C starport. But we could get to Oupost in one jump and have an "adventure" there while the ship is in the drydock.

Alternatively we can get a Modular Cutter with a customized open module (scoops and processor). But that is expensive and takes a lot of cargo space. But we will have more fuel so we can do a 2-1 jump.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:11, Mon 21 Sept 2015.

As a thought, if for example the patron wants us to check out things at Planet D, we can make trades behind the scenes at Planet B and C, using the trading as cover for our actions on Planet D.

(We can see about getting it taken care of at Outpost since we might need to pay a social call at the naval base)

  The corsair won't have scoops by default, so we'd need to add those at the 1 Mcr cost. We don't have to do that right now though - just paying the 50,000 cr to have on-board refining is worth it though because it cuts our fuel cost from 500/ton to 100/ton, and the corsair uses a lot of fuel (80 tons) when jumping.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:50, Tue 22 Sept 2015.

The more I think about it, it might be better to hold off on a ship until we reach a location that provides a larger selection of ships. An A class starport, a higher tech level, a subsector capital with perhaps military bases, something on the main jumplines...etc.

There´s a number of locations that meet ALL those requirements. One place that sticks out in my mind, Carrill  Reaver's Deep 2330 A0009AE-E. It´s 2(X2) jumps away. One of the highest tech levels in the local area.

Unless we plan on a custom built vessel, we have all kinds of options here on Grendal.

100 Ton Courier-class Jump-2/Maneuver-2 Cargo 8 Streamlined
200 Ton Elegant-Class Yacht Light Fantastic Jump-1/Maneuver-1 Cargo 21 No Scoops
400 Ton Aggressor-Class Corsair Eternal Knight Jump-2/Maneuver-3 Cargo 160 No Scoops
200 Ton Animal-Class Safari Ship Jaguar Jump-2/Maneuver-1 Cargo 2 Streamlined?
200 Ton Modified Type A2 Far Trader (I guess Jump-2/Maneuver-1 Cargo?) Streamlined
(Not sure on the Devastator-Class Heavy Assault Ship Night Thunder)

If we want to go small, the Far Trader will work and we will not have to worry about landing on planets. (The courier is too small for this size of the group)

The Corsair will work as it gives us lots of options for role playing and if needed we can add a modular cutter for transporting cargo to the surface.

The yacht has very short legs, limiting our options and the Safari Ship looks far to specialized. (And unless we plan on starting a mercenary company, the Heavy Assault Ship is way too much for our needs).

(For a wish list, a 400 ton streamlined with about the cargo capacity of the Corsair and 4 turrets would be great.)

  The corsair isn't streamlined, but it can land. It has a standard hull, not a distributed one, so it's just a little more difficult to pilot in an atmosphere.

The italics emphasis in the standard-hull section is mine; but the upshot is that I am not sure that we want to try an land the corsair in anything but the most dire circumstances - it sounds more like a last ditch effort to me.

I believe that is a major disadvantage for a small troubleshooting crew like us.

I don't believe that a ship's hull can be retrofitted to be streamlined after the fact.

The corsair is "only" -2 to land so not all that crippling when doing it at a starport. And if we really want to we can get a small craft too as the corsair can handle them. A modular cutter would also allow us to bypass the fuel scoop issue as it is streamlines and can have processors.

Downside is of course that we sacrifice cargo space and we have to leave the ship drifting empty in space when we all depart with the cutter or leave someone behind (imo not an option).

The safari ship looks nice on the outside in my opinion but sadly is full with unneeded and costly gadgets, especially the hydrid storage. It also has only 33 tons of cargo.
Enough if we only want to do trading as a side business, but not enough to be a good moneymaker on its own.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:22, Tue 22 Sept 2015.

In reply to Walter Zeller (msg # 121):

True, there are a number of selections here, but, as you mentioned while listing those available...there are only 2 that could potentially meet our basic needs.

The reason why I brought it up.... There are a number of "standard" ships that would meet most of our ship wishlist, or at least be much better than our current limited options and realistically (Yea, I know, it´s science fiction) our chances of finding that type of ship improves considerably if we think logically (IE Use the game system mindset....if I want to find a white dragon I go into the coldest mountains around). ;-)

Plus, I admit I was sitting around looking at all the different ship choices (Core+supplements) and my brain said, "Jeez, if we had one of those...."

And, who knows, perhaps our search of a perfect ship might be a minor adventure in and of itself?

Quick edit note:I realize alot of players don´t have all the books....I´m not talking about any of the "specialized" ships, the secret agent transwarp invisible thingy.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:05, Tue 22 Sept 2015.

Keep in mind though that our current choices are really, really cheap. Our dream ship might not be.

Agreed, Khea, those mechanics don't seem that limiting at all.  Which makes me question the authors' use of the verbiage that they do on p. 106.  *shrug*  There is nothing listed for the launch/take-off procedures really.  Presumably, they are simply another -2 DM (Hard dDifficulty) piloting maneuver?  Hardly seems 'expensive'...

  If you don't have a good pilot (or there's some relevant system damage) then getting the ship down and back up again might be a problem. It's the distributed ones that REALLY don't take well to atmospheric flight.

  Keeping a ship's boat or equivalent with us is an option but it'll eat up most of our cargo space, which isn't very helpful.

It does seem like they skimped a bit on that, but then they were probably leaving it up the Referee to come up with any details that suited him.

For instance, I've always gone with what I considered a 'sensible' approach to approaching a starport in a ship. Your ship has a transponder that transmits your ship name, ID, registration, captain's name of record, ownership, maintenance details, and medical status. This is automatic because these are important bits of information that a starport needs to know so that they don't blow you out of the ether!

Maintenance record is to make sure that your ship isn't going to blow up once it lands, and medical is to make sure you are bringing a plague to the planet.

If any of that information is missing, it will be requested from Space Traffic Control before they grant you permission to land. If any of the data is hinky, expect a visit from customs.


Same thing with take-offs and landings. Unless the Referee has a specific reason  for a Piloting skill check (such as a 'storm of the century'), then it's just everyday routine business.

In reply to Kheaiftouaw (msg # 126):

Good point, from an ooc perspective...that might be part of the group dynamic....it´s like having a really fancy car, the payments are steep and no matter how well you get paid, there´s always that heavy deduction at the end of the month.

It´s like the inverse of Firefly....

Not to over analyze this, but a mediocre ship will be limited in job options because it is mediocre. When a well-heeled potential employer is looking to accomplish a task with certainty, they don´t seek out a vagabond group with some aged struggling ship, unless of course their trying to do it on the cheap. Risk versus benefit.

You need it done without fail, we will do it, but, we´re not cheap...

My point, how about we are the antithesis of the rusting, barely space-worthy struggling group...that´s something I haven´t seen recently...actually that´s a lie...the Dark Matter series seems based on that to a certain extent.

Which comes back to what we want to do in the future.

We can't have it all (although some jack of all trades, master of none ships exists, just not here) we have to decide on what we want to be good at. Not only with a OOC analysis but also from a IC view.

Here is what I think, please add anything I missed or you disagree with.

OOC:

- We are in a Jump 1 pocket. To get out we need Jump 2
- We can only effectively crew ships up to 400 tons I guess
- We want fuel scoops and processors

IC:

- We have 2 nobles who have to keep up the status and likely also have higher personal needs then most and the ship has to account for that. Also, not all professions might be suitable for a noble.

In the end we have to decide how much we want to spend on offensive and defensive capabilities, trading, scouting/prospecting, personal luxuries, etc.
Once we agree on that we can decide which of the offered ships fits best or if we risk it to move on as passengers and try our luck elsewhere.

  Trading is likely to be the primary source of funding for everything else, so we'll need to keep that foremost. Combat capabilities are useful mainly to dissuade pirates - the corsair won't withstand a serious firefight but it's tough enough that it won't be seen as an easy mark (unlike a Far Trader). Having a large cargo capacity also makes it easy to adapt it for other work as needed. We can easily install fuel processors, luxuries, etc, without making a serious dent in its hauling capacity, and carrying a ship's boat is also an option if the situation calls for it.

  True, there are specialized ships that might do specific things better, but that's only helpful if we're sure that that specific thing is all we want to do.


  As for the age of the ship: as long as it's in good condition there's no reason it can't be maintained and made to look nice both inside and out. Just because the typical corsair band probably doesn't care too much about appearances doesn't mean we can't!

Combining the different thread elements.

- We are in a Jump 1 pocket. To get out we need Jump 2
- We can only effectively crew ships up to 400 tons I guess
- We want fuel scoops and processors.
- We have 2 nobles who have to keep up the status and likely also have higher personal needs then most and the ship has to account for that.

Trading is likely to be the primary source of funding for everything else, so we'll need to keep that foremost. Combat capabilities are useful mainly to dissuade pirates.

As for the age of the ship: as long as it's in good condition there's no reason it can't be maintained and made to look nice both inside and out.

400 ton streamlined with about the cargo capacity of the Corsair and 4 turrets would be great.
-------------------------------------------------------

IMO, Yes to all of the above.

Is it possible, yes, will it be easy, no, but unless we put forth the effort/time (In IC), of course we will fail.

OOC: Internet connection failing more later.

Before we decide to look for a better ship, is there even a ship which would fit better than what we can get here? In the main book I don't see anything better than the Far Trader or Corsair for this.

The 200 ton Varger Trader looks like a better alternative than the Far Trader because it sacrifices state rooms for cargo as long as we are ok with  only having 5 rooms.

Aslan have a rare 300 ton design which can do a bit of everything, but is a bit expensive comparatively because it needs to use jump engines for 400 ton ships.
They also have a 400 ton trader but that one is unarmed and only has 20 tons more cargo than the corsair and scoops/processors. Either way they likely are not available on Outpost, it being a Imperium system but rather on Drellesarr going by its "everything for sale" wiki entry. The Hierate is close enough that I find it possible that Aslan ships would be for sale somehow (even if its just pirated ones). Of course Starmaster might think differently.

Solomani space is a bit further away but could be reasonable close to still find a ship (likely also coming from questionable sources and quite rare). But the only interesting ship is their 400 ton trader and it also is not much of an upgrade to the corsair, basically just trading one turret (and firepower on the other turrets) for fuel scoops, processors and a launch with equal cargo space.

So it doesn't look like we can even find a better ship than the corsair unless you want to go smaller.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:59, Tue 22 Sept 2015.

In reply to Kheaiftouaw (msg # 134):

I realize alot of players don´t have all the books....I´m not talking about any of the "specialized" ships, the secret agent transwarp invisible thingy.

The CR has the basic ships, then there are the core supplements, basic ship designs that aren´t really special...they just wouldn´t have fit in the main book. I´m looking to somehow put alot of this basic stuff onto the goggle cloud thingy.

As an example, it is understandable that with small freighters (200-400), there are those that concentrate totally on cargo space, then on the opposite side, there will be those that are designed to be fast, what about those dealing with possible combat?, or longer jump range or some combination of the above.

Trust me, there are standard designs that are much better suited to our needs other than our current options. And, never forget, the integral advantages of standard design...parts and repair times are greatly reduced....As much as group conditions might be met, superficially by an Aslan ship...think about that for a moment?

However, it does always boil down to the GM, what does he think is available at certain locations?

Anyways, OOC, looking at a way to upload files to the google thing, it´s been a bit.

Darrell - not sure what you mean by a Jump 1 pocket?

Apart from that 4 turrets? We only have 2 Gunners (one PC with Gunner, though we do have two jane of all trades) - so that is worth remembering

In reply to Samantha Kilgore (msg # 136):

At some point, we´re going to need a jump-2 ship to get out of the area.

http://travellermap.com/?x=-39...amp;scale=57.6796875

Good point about the gunners, but, if necessary, you can automate turrets.

  Two characters have Gunner: Vonon and Kaengarr. That's in addition to the JoAT characters.

  The corsair has Fire Control software. I don't know about most of the others that have been mentioned, but it's something we can add if need be.

We can always work on learning gunnery while we are in transit to the next destination.

Since we are at TAS, maybe we can take a look at their database to see if there are any vessels not listed on this system or in other areas that we can check out.

(For the time being and to simplify things, I think a Far Trader might be our best option. While it does not have the cargo capacity like the Corsair, it has the range, and no problem with landings, taking off, or refueling, along with plenty of space for everyone (plus putting trading as a secondary mission). Who knows what abandoned vessels we might find...)

One thing I forgot to add.
Both the Hierate and the Solomani Confederacy are in a de facto cold war with the Imperium, so having two nobles flying one of their ships might not be appropriate and will certainly raise questions about their loyalties by some.

  Well... what training rules are we going to use for skills? The 2E beta makes it much more practical to raise skill ranks compared to the current version. Maybe we can go with those?

With the speed this game is progressing one week will be over in 5 years from now ;)

Also, unless Starmaster has the beta, too I say we stick to the published books.

In reply to Kheaiftouaw (msg # 142):

Concerning books, At least for now, I´m for sticking with the published stuff also...Honestly, I´m biased, I´ve spent around $400-500 on the new books and would hate to give that up so soon...(Watching the gaming money-pit... ;-(

For the time being, lets stick with the current books and if they release errata, we can update then.

In reply to Walter Zeller (msg # 144):

There´s a reason why it´s called beta-testing....hopefully, before all the new and totally correct stuff comes out, I´ll have saved up the energy and natural fluids to donate to gain enough money to buy them. (Joking...)

I was writing something up about group, individual needs and how agendas work...but, after 7+ paragraphs...I realized, why even bring it up, basic gaming starts with many factors....

Anyone really interested in that, would most definitely cluster up an average OOC. The purpose of an OOC in game is to cover the stuff not IC in a specific game, and in and of itself can be a lengthy matter...It would very soon prove to be a heavy burden and in general a waste of time for those just looking to talk about that particular game.

What if there was a thread, within a game that dealt with those bigger issues of player/character/group/individual, obviously, the general public (internally) would say, we don´t need that.

Basically what I´m saying, I´d like a thread, perhaps called (Roleplaying Basics?) introduced into the game.  It would not be editable except by certain players, and might not even be viewable by most.

Anyways, just a thought. Actually, the more I think about it, it doesn´t make sense, but, when I started...there is something in it that makes sense.

I think that you might be trying to get at is that we are acting like a bunch of cats. If we were operating a vessel, we would need to have someone be the Captain unless we NPC'ed the role.

So it boils down to who is going to be the Captain as their actions will steer the rest of us in one direction or the other. If no one else wants the role, then we have some options, but we need to come up some sort of plan before we take off or it will slow us down.

1.) Walter takes the role but that would mean that the game goes more towards trading since that is his strength.
2.) We all take jobs on the Free Trader Alton's Souvenir with Captain Merrick and have the GM NPC the role (Making a over qualified crew and does not make any sense that a Count and Knight are working on it).
3.) Split the groups? (Way to much work for the GM)
4.) Some other option?

  Alton's Souvenir? Captain Merrick? (Please tell me he doesn't belong to some elephant-like species...) First mention I've seen of those!

  I was under the impression that this had already been settled, but Kaengarr has been a Captain (well, the Vargr equivalent), and he wouldn't hesitate to put himself forward if the group is being indecisive about it, even though they've just met. If there's one thing that triggers Vargr instincts, it's watching people waffle about leadership. ;)

  I don't think we'll be able to stretch the budget to buy both ships, though that would certainly make for impressive cargo hauling as a startup company.

You could always do like the old Manfred Mann rock group used to do--everyone took turns being 'Manfred Mann'. That was an effort to avoid a front man... like Paul Revere and the Raiders featuring Mark Lindsay.

So you could all take turns being 'Captain Merrick'.

I think rotating Captain may be an idea. Especially as I see it more as first among equals than supreme dictator

I agree that it would take alot of the fun out of "roleplaying" if everyone just became a machine that kept saying Yes, sir...however, there has to be structure/order, otherwise every mission/adventure would devolve into chaos and it would be hard to get anything done. That´s one of the reasons in almost all RPGs, there´s a group leader/speaker/whatever.

I´m up for taking the Captain position. Note, crew positions aboard ship would be left up to the most logical person for the job.

Count Darrell is used to being in charge, and well, he´s a Count...logically (And I´m not just saying it because he´s powerhungry), it makes sense that he expects to be in charge.

Plus, although we´re not in Imperial space, having the Count as "Boss" will likely prove beneficial in having some leverage when dealing with authorities.

Lastly, if things are going sideways, he would be in a better position to work things out than most.

Anyways, that´s my thinking...

Or the Dread Pirate Roberts!

*shrug* OOC - PCs will be PCs.  IC, Sharik is fine with Darrel taking lead or being faceman, at least out of combat.

In combat, Vonon (space) or Tolman (ground) are more likely better as 'Captain' since they have Tactics skills.  Though it may be a toss-up as Shar has JoAT/3 and +2 INT DM; so, her Tactics checks aren't great, but at least have a decent +ve modifier.

  This will all partly depend on how many players we have left. The additional fade-outs are unfortunate in some respects but the smaller group size does make things more manageable.

  Tolman is gone, AFAICT - he's not on the UPP list anymore, at least.

  StarMaster, could you perhaps transfer the no longer active characters to the NPC section in the game/player list? It'd be easier to keep track of who we still have!


  As for specific roles...

  Vonon is our tactics man, since he's the only one left with it.

  In addition to Tactics, there are three characters with Leadership: Kaengarr (1), Samantha (1), and Vonon (0), which is also the descending order of their typical DMs. This may matter when we're dealing with high tension situations.

  Darrel is clearly our best bet in peaceful (or reasonably close to it) dealings. Kaengarr is probably second there because he has a similarly high Persuade.

  No one is going to beat Walter at the negotiating table!

  (I can't tell where Quinzella stands because her base stats aren't listed in her UPP entry.)


  Everyone except Darrel has some sort of personal combat skill so we're okay there, and it looks like every shipboard operation is covered by at least two qualified people. We might actually have trouble finding something for everyone to do when things AREN'T going south!


  Of course, these kinds of assessments assume that we're all together. If we're dealing with several things at once then we probably won't have the luxury of putting the 'best' person on every job.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:09, Tue 29 Sept 2015.

Not sure but I think Quinzella might be our version of River Tam and do not count on Walter using a weapon, he might as run around with a medic kit since his physical stats are so low. (I think he picked up the rapier since it was expected of a noble)

Not sure but for the time being, I think we need to agree on a vessel and then give the data to the scouts. That might ended up being our next mission when they want us to deliver it back to the Imperial sector.

In reply to Walter Zeller (msg # 153):

Well unless one can come up with a better ship than the corsair which we can reasonable get (In character opinion, price and availability) my vote is for the corsair.

Leadership is SOC, right? So, Kaengarr normally has a total +2 DM (before situation and difficulty modifiers), while Samantha, Vonon and Sharik all have a +1 total DM to any Leadership check they make...

With respect to a ship, I am fine with the corsair, but we are likely to need a smaller ship for atmospheric duties.  Even if the piloting DM is 'only' a -2 for standard-hull ship, I would prefer not to continually subject the ship to that kind of stress (if, in theory, it was never designed for it).

Otherwise, we need to get off-planet by commercial charter soon (TAS dividend, here we come!) ...

Most planets would hopefully have a high port where we can dock or can otherwise provide orbit to surface transportation. So I wouldn't see a shuttle as high priority.

The smallest standard transport would be a 30 ton launch for 14 MCr. The cheapest non-standard solution would be an Air/Raft.
But as the corsair lacks scoops & processors we might need a modular cutter for that. Problem is that this will cost us a lot of cargo space and only carries small amounts of cargo (11.5) if we customize the fuel module to only carry 20 tons (1 day of processing) and the processor of course.

Problem is that if we are going to trade it will take a lot of flights with the launch to fill up cargo and the Air/Raft won't help at all.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:33, Tue 29 Sept 2015.

  I also feel that the corsair is the better option, and for the time being we can make do without the shuttle/lift, but we add fuel processors (which are cheap and don't use much space) so that we can fill up with unrefined when we're at lower-grade starports.

  If we stick to starports as much as possible then we shouldn't need to take the ship itself down much if at all, and once we have a healthy bank account we can look into getting another ship, or even having one custom-designed.

By the way, if our nobles want something more appropriate for the travels from orbit, the Solomani book has stats for an Armoured Grav Limousine.

Kind in mind, though, that good role-playing is better than just rolling dice. This works much better on a pbp game than in ftf, since you don't usually have the time to think about what you are going to say/write around the gaming table.

GMs/Referees (particularly this one) can assign a bonus of up to +3 if your post covers role-playing your character's actions. Heck, if your post is REALLY GOOD, success can be automatic.


So, basically, don't get hung up on the skill ranks. Use them more as guidelines for your character rather than an absolute value of your ability.

I realize that Darrell isn't Han Solo or a starship trooper. He's used to delegating the "tactical" stuff to those better suited for those particular tasks...I'm thinking more along the lines of...strategic planner or something like that...not getting my wording right this morning, ran out of coffee and the brain isn't quite with it yet. ;-(

It is by caffeine alone that I sent my mind in motion. It is by the Bean of Java that the thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I sent my mind in motion

LOL, Brother ain't that the truth.

Stepping away from the group for a minute, the Count looks like he´s in communication.

Returning, "Well, it looks like Ms. Blue has another mission for us and would like for us to meet her. She mentioned it will be well worth our time."



At Vonon´s statement, Darrel looks at Vonon then Captain Ruzokh, "I might have some information on that, but, let´s meet with Ms. Blue then we can discuss the Darrian trader- Myst Fortune."

  "Who is Ms. Blue?" Kaengarr looked at Darrel, then Walter, then Darrel again, curiosity evident. "Is it actually about the trader?"

  Whether or not it involved the trader, this was surely related to the mysterious enterprise that Walter hadn't wanted to talk about when they met at the bar.

In reply to Kaengarr Ruzokh (msg # 164):

"Ms. Blue is a facilitator, she finds people who needs things done and then finds the people to get those things done. She hired our group for a mission, which we just recently accomplished. I thought about it and realized she would be a perfect source of information about the region and so I put her on retainer to keep us appraised of things we might find interesting."

Given that it's around lunch time, the Count invites everyone to have a bite with him, "There's a restaurant that I've heard of...highly recommended...I'll contact Ms. Blue to meet us there and we'll discuss the mission/future and have a great meal."

While walking towards the waiting vehicles he calls MS. Blue to arrange the meeting.

OOC: Assuming the group is joining him?

While not being hungry at all Khea joins CountDarrel. After all sticking with him might lead to her again working on a ship and being friends with someone in good standing in the Imperium clan will be useful.

During the drive Khea spends the time working her computer to find out who or what Darrians are and stares at disbelieve at the startchart showing the distance this ship must have travelled.

  Eating frequently was no trouble for Kaengarr - he was a Vargr, after all. Being in the dark about these mysterious arrangements was bothersome though, and he put that to the others during the ride. "We're going to hear about another mission from this person? I still don't know what the first one was about!"

In reply to Kaengarr Ruzokh (msg # 167):

Smiles at Mr. Ruzokh, "Well, I suppose the best way to answer that, it paid well, we succeeded, everyone survived and no lives were lost...and, I think we did something beneficial for this world. Seems like a win-win."

Making sure the driver has the directions correct for the Golden Griffin restaurant, The Count turns back to his companions, "A job well done, and I am sure with your contribution our group will be able to accomplish even more."

"I guess we will find out shortly what she has in mind." Walter says, as he joined the others in the ride over to the Golden Griffin.

In reply to Walter Zeller (msg # 169):

"I'm sure that it can't hurt to hear her out, and, there was a logical reason I spent 25,000 Cr on maintaining an ongoing relationship with her. Remember, the costs of obtaining information are finite, the cost of ignorance is much, much higher."

Sam was less convinced working for Ceruleanne again, would be a good idea. But given limited options she tagged along. She was even less happy about Darrelll becoming the boss. She wasn't sure if he had even acted in any military vids, let alone actually commanded. That could cost someone their life. That would need discussion.

  And one that they all refused to be specific about, which meant that there was something dodgy about it. That could easily end up coming back to haunt them... and now him, too.

OOC: After the ship inspections, concerning the
Modified Type A2 Far Trader Last Chance; 20 years old.
Assume payments; pay just MCr5.5.
Good condition; full software, weapons, extras.

What were the extras?

The more I've been thinking about it...I'm warming up to the "Long Shot".

Yes, it's a 100 years old ;-( But, the potential for it can't really be beat. There are some technical issues to still be hashed out (looking over some of the numbers concerning fuel), with time/effort/Credits/luck, we could really turn it into something special.

Getting rid of (selling) the
Maneuver Drive: Type J/Thrust-3:17tons 36,000,000 and the Auxiliary Bridge: 20tons 3,000,000, Mining Drones: 10tons 1,000,000, 1/2 the repair drones:9 tons 360,000,000 (?)

That gives us an additional 56tons (for whatever Note:-18/27 tons for 2/3 weeks maneuver fuel), and if we can sell those items at say 40%, that should cover the cost of the modifications + throw in a annual overhaul.

Then we could add more weapons, or better small craft, or let your imagination go wild.... ;-)

Anyways, like I said, the potential is there, if we give it some deep thought.

I am not so certain about the Long Shot. We still have to buy the ship first and it is very expensive because of its equipment which means we have to take a high loan.

The Jump-3 is unusable without Drop Tanks or more fuel space as we would die in jump space because the reactor would run out of fuel which also keeps life support running.
And then there are other things which need remodelling. Maybe additional turrets, making room for more cargo space, maybe upgrading the Launch or adding additional Fuel Processors (it currently would take nearly 4 days to refuel completely).

If all that is fixed it would be a great ship, but the up front costs are very high.

In reply to Kheaiftouaw (msg # 175):

Good points.

I've confirmed that if we have to buy the ship, we can use ship shares.

The fuel part is the easiest part to fix (and I think the GM might be willing to just directly convert 18 tons from the cargo to fuel.(?))

And any modifications regardless of ship type will be expensive. Keep in mind, SDBs were designed to be easily repaired/modified...that was one of their strong points in a long term siege environment.

I was kind of looking at it from it's uniqueness.

Trying to acquire all the perks the ship has, including that fact that it already has a large number of military/intelligence spec upgrades, would be very hard to accomplish IC. I doubt that there will be many opportunities like this to come along.

That in and of itself, in my opinion, is probably the greatest "selling point".

It already has most of the things that we were looking for as a "group ship", cargo space, weapons, serious sensors/electronics, luxuries, a monster computer, etc...

Like I mentioned previously, this is just an option, but, for me, after pondering  the pros/cons, the Long Shot stacks up very well against basically any other ship we might logically have the possibility of acquiring.

Plus it's pretty cool.

Not trying to convince anyone, just putting forth my thoughts on it.

You might consider talking to Valeska, as she was on the ship while it was operating. In some peculiar legal acrobatics, she seems to be the sole claimant on the ship now, though no one's quite sure what that means yet.




The Last Chance extras are:

Reflec armor
Self-sealing hull
Triple-lasers (2 pulse, 1 beam)
Model-3/bis-fib computer
Basic military electronics
Luxuries
1 repair drone
Software: Intellect, Evade-2, Fire control-3, Auto-repair-1

I like the idea but part of me is also thinking that a jump capable SDB is going to attract attention wherever it goes. We are less likely to get attacked by pirates but if they see how it is decked out, they might send a large force to take it or we could be in a system and get "conscripted" into their navy to fight some foe.

It's not an SDB any more. While it has a few remaining SDB perks, it is hardly the combat vessel that an SDB is. Normally, an SDB is a missile platform; that's what makes it so dangerous... having a couple hundred missiles to throw at the enemy.


Also, when Khea was making he adjustments to the jump drive in engineering, she did notice some peculiar configurations of both the jump drive and the maneuver drives. She didn't have a chance to really look it over; she chalked it up to both Human idiosyncracies and the fact that the ship was 100 years old, converted and modified.

We've seen the thing, so would it be fair to suppose that the Rock Dancer probably isn't the sort of ship we're after what with it being a miner?

  Between paying 12 mil+ at an auction and having to pay to refit the thing vs taking 5 mil now and putting it toward a suitable ship...

In reply to Kaengarr Ruzokh (msg # 180):

Definitely not the ship we need.

I'm also of the mindset for the quick Crs, although maybe we can milk it just a little more? (I know, greed is not a virtue.)

Using ship shares, and spending some hard cash, we could really trick out a ship...

More on this in IC.

That is correct but the scanners might show it as such due to its size, configuration, etc.

That's true, but remember that it is a bit larger than the standard SDB, though SDBs can run from 200-1000 tons. SDBs are almost never encountered with the jump shuttle attached so that alters its configuration/profile significantly.

It's certainly going to be big for a trader.

Is it actually possible to separate the jump shuttle from the Long Shot or do they have been permanently fused when the ship was converted to a miner?

The two ships were 'permanently' fused together and the SDB's maneuver drives were moved rearward into the jump shuttle, which had small engines but a lot of fuel tankage. The SDB didn't have a jump drive.

That may have been one of the things Khea noticed... the dual power plant. The SDBs power plant was larger, and it was also moved aft and combined with the jump shuttle's power plant. Same tonnage and rating as a single unit.

"Is there something that I can help your crew with? I feel like I could be of use," Valeska said to no one in particular.
This message was last updated by the GM at 01:55, Wed 06 Jan 2016.

"Ms. Brandenberg, sorry we didn't have much time to get acquainted, things have been pretty hectic. I want to personally thank you for coming to answer any questions concerning the Long Shot, she's a very interesting ship."

Picking up documentation about the Long Shot, "We have been discussing a number of issues concerning the ship...

1. The fuel situation, it doesn't make sense to have a jump-3 ship, which consumes 180 tons of fuel, to only have enough fuel to make that jump, and then have no maneuver fuel (or for life support/etc), is there something we are missing?

2. I have a Engineer rating/maneuver-1, I was looking at the maneuver-3 engines X2 configuration, and taking into account the computers' capability...there's something strange in their set-up, can you explain that?

3. One of the most puzzling things, the repair drones in the ship's paperwork lists them at an astronomical price, basically 20 MCr. each, is there some clerical error or something else?

4. The legal proceedings about the ship is, well, very out of the ordinary, can you explain that?

5. For a 100 year old, jump converted SDB (TL-14), there is still a tremendous amount of military/intelligence grade hardware/upgrades to the ship, can you elaborate on that?

I want to apologize if this seems like an interrogation, but, honestly, I am extremely intrigued about this ship. "
This message was last updated by the GM at 01:56, Wed 06 Jan 2016.

"You are very welcome. Let's see...
1. The jump drive is 10% more efficient than standard drives, which means it only uses 162 tons of fuel for a Jump-3, leaving 18 tons for standard power plant operations.

2. Yes, the ship is capable of Maneuver-6; you see, both maneuver drives can operate at the same time by a micro-second sharing. Like how a computer can scan all its peripherals because the peripherals operate at a much slower rate than the CPU, the maneuver drives work in alternating pulses.

3. As for the repair drones, they aren't really worth the price they are listed at; they are just carried on the books that way, but I have no idea why.

4. Ha, no. I really can't shed light on that mystery.

5. Again, I can't speak for the whys and wherefores on how this ship came to have such modifications. Only that they are there and I know some about their operation. I was hired on fairly recently, but trained well during my time on it.

Does that about answer your questions?" Valeska asks with a smile.

"I should mention, that as part of the standard share of the crew, I'm owed 3.8MCr, so if there's any chance of a buy-in, I could use some of that to do so.. I wouldn't mind staying on board. She's become a bit of a home to me. So please keep that in consideration."
This message was last updated by the GM at 02:07, Wed 06 Jan 2016.

Yes, this thread in particular seemed to vacillate between OOC and IC. I've moved the IC ship discussion over to the Long Shot thread. Problem solved.

I was just figuring out some numbers...With the current set-up of the "double" M-3, the tonnage saved is something like 60+ tons. When you think about it, that's a savings of 10%+, just based on that, the speed to weight ratio is crazy.

One quick question, is the Auxiliary Bridge needed, since it's original function as serving a bridge for the "jump shuttle", doesn't seem to apply anymore.

One other quick question, can we buy the ship (if that is what we are doing), without paying for the repair drones, minus Mcr360

  Unless I've misread something they're already paid for, so we'd be giving up value even if they're only worth a fraction of the listed price. And if they are actually worth that much, it'll help with later resale (or maybe just sale of the drones themselves).

Got your point, until we get a better grasp of what's what concerning the economics of the Long Shot, alot of this is speculation.

For my part, I must admit...I'm really liking the ship, but, until we know more...
This message was last edited by the player at 21:03, Tue 12 Jan 2016.

  Did the Fuel entry for the Long Shot get updated? The notes suggest it did, but we're still short: a jump-3 with a 600-ton vessel would require 180 tons of fuel (600 x .1 x 3) , so there'd be nothing left for standard operations. A type J power plant could go for one week on 9 or two on 18; considering the type of vessel it was and is, two weeks seems more likely in the design.

  This is probably another case of me not knowing the system, but the weapons are listed as "TT/BL". Triple Turret... what?

  Edit: Going back and looking at the costs/tonnage (Page 111), the repair drones add up if the ship is actually carrying three sets of them. I'm not sure whether that actually does anything useful, but if it doesn't then we could get rid of two sets and free up 12 tons (and 240 Mcr)...
This message was last edited by the player at 23:42, Tue 12 Jan 2016.

As Valeska said, the Jump drive consumes 10% less fuel so, 162 tons per jump. That together with basically having a M-6 drive with only a level 3 reactor makes the Long Shot quite advanced as far as spaceships go despite its age.

  Argh. Could the specials be listed on the post (#272 in Recovering)? It's confusing otherwise. :P

The REPAIR drones aren't a set; they are individual units, about the size of a trash barrel, even if they might be shaped like a crab (depends on the manufacturer).

  Okay, but we still have them 3x. (6 tons and 120 mcr each by the chart.) Does that do anything significant over having just a single one? If they each require separate operation then we'd have a hard time making use of them - the computer can run one, but the rest of us aren't exactly aces with Remote Ops. If the computer can handle all three at once, that's a different matter.

The 6 tons is only about a ton of robot, a ton of housing space, and the rest is the Remote Operations System needed to run them. Selling one wouldn't get you anywhere near the listed value, and wouldn't include the physical operating system anyway.

  Still, that's 12 tons of space cleared out if we don't really get a benefit from having three vs one allotment. Since that's also an issue with the auxiliary bridge - 20 tons that could be reassigned to other purposes if we keep and refit the Long Shot - it's worth knowing whether those drones really ARE useful to have in quantity.

Yes, the repair drones are completely useless... unless the ship gets shot in battle or gets struck by an asteroid.

  But 1/6 tons vs 3/19 - how much difference does that make?

It seems like you are beating a dead horse to me. I really don't understand what you are asking.

3 repair drones are 3 times as useful as 1 repair drone.

  Remember, I'm not all that familiar with the ruleset (and it doesn't help that it's sometimes confusingly written).

  Can you triple up drones on a single job and get repairs happening three times as fast or does the game system not allow that kind of 'stacking'? Would that make a meaningful difference in a time-sensitive situation (IE: mid-combat) or do repair jobs take too long for it to really matter?

  Does each drone require a separate operator or could the ship's program handle them all simultaneously?


  As with the Aux bridge, it's not just about whether they're potentially useful but whether they're likely to be useful enough to outweigh the other things we could do with the additional tonnage that they're taking up. It's hard to gauge that when I'm not certain how they actually function rules-wise.

This is what I have found so far considering ship shares and how they will be applied to the monthly payment for the Long Shot.

Count Darrel Cromwell: 2 shares
Kheaiftouaw: 1 share
Samantha Kilgore: none
Sharik Kaagira: 4 shares
Vonon Ronkunu: 6 shares
Sir Walter Zeller: 4 shares
Kaengarr Ruzokh: 4 shares
Pablo Esteban Ryzov: none

Need to know what the following characters have in reference to ship shares???

Valeska Brandenberg
Gregory Jones

Note: Did I miss anyone?

An aside, the ship costs (minus depreciation) 546,430,000
This message was last edited by the player at 21:20, Sun 24 Jan 2016.

  Kaengarr has four shares.

Sharik actually has four (4) ship shares (it was either that three + air/raft, and it didn't look like we needed the air/raft).

Pablo has no ship shares. Oddly they didn't give those out in prison.

  Aren't shares normally set against the full value of the ship? If they are and this hasn't already been factored into the 'remaining payments' value then we'd probably be better off holding on to them for now.

In reply to Kaengarr Ruzokh (msg # 209):

I might be confused....I was just re-reading past posts...once we pay the last payments + give up ship shares, the ship is ours, free and clear? (meaning no monthly payments?)

Anyways, not sure. Sorry for the mix-up, I had spent a couple hours reading different rule books and my addled brain kicked in a numbers mode, and had forgotten about previous messages. ;-(
This message was last edited by the player at 12:45, Mon 25 Jan 2016.

  I'm not sure whether or how the ship shares were already counted into those last payments' value. (Part of the problem is that this process has been going on so long than I'm getting fuzzy on the details.)

  Depending on that and what our long-term plan actually is the shares could potentially be used in other ways.

Disregard the monthly payment stuff, Walter unclustered my brain...the ship is ours using the ship shares.

Along with the two payments of 400+kcr each but we can take care of that out of our funds.

In reply to Walter Zeller (msg # 213):

According to my rough calculations(?)
17.3 MCr.

- 883KCr (Cr882,532)

= 16,417,000 Crs

/8 mission group
Darrel Cromwell
Kaengarr Ruzokh
Kheaiftouaw
Pablo Esteban Ryzov
Samantha Kilgore
Sharik Kaagira
Vonon Ronkunu
Walter Zeller
Did I miss anyone?


=2,052,125 Crs per "old" crewmember.