In terms of ships, I think having a t least a few passengers for berths isn't a bad idea. With a GMs view - that probably gives more scope for plot hooks (eg "it turns out the passenger you are carrying is the heir to the imperial throne, travelling incognito....")

Which leads into the "And then a Sylea class Battleship...."

Actually you're right, we do need space for passengers, just because you never know when we have guests.

I was thinking that if that is the case, we might double up some of us to make room for any passengers. But it had better be a good reason so we do not have a Sylea class Battleship pay us a social call like you said.

Looking into the ships, Darrel and Walter find the following information:

The Last Chance is 20 years old, has only had one owner, and there is no record of damage to it. The owner took out a second mortgage on the ship. The MCr5.5 is to pay off the 2nd mortgage, and you'd take over the remaining 28 payments.


The Eternal Knight is 40 years old, has had 3 previous owners, and was involved in a mid-air collision with another starship. It sustained some hull damage, but was repaired and signed off on by inspectors.

  If it's possible for either them or Kaengarr to find out (since he has also been looking), how many more payments are left on The Eternal Knight, and how much are the individual payments on each?
This message was last edited by the player at 06:40, Sat 05 Sept 2015.

Last Chance and Eternal Knight

Arranging thorough ship inspections for the 2 ships through the best independent ship investigators, to happen from 8-12. We will be involved.

OOC: All paperwork, logs, and manifests examined. And of course the most detailed examination of the ship itself.
This message was last edited by the player at 02:04, Wed 16 Sept 2015.

Except for the monthly upkeep the corsair looks to be equal or better than the trader in every way. And as longs as we stay in the area between the Hierate and Imperium even the strong weapons wouldn't be all that suspicious except in very restrictive systems. If the Pirates of Drinax adventures are any indication, piracy is quite a problem in such areas.

Has someone calculated how much money we can expect to make every month, barring payments for special services?

The premise I'm working on is that space/starships depreciate at the rate of 1% per year, up to a maximum of 90%. There is always at least a 10% value left in an old ship just from the scrap metal if nothing else.

Banks finance ships for 40 years, giving the owner 10 good years of operating the ship. After 50 years, it's up to the owner to keep it running.

Depreciation, of course, would indicate that ships are designed to last 100 years, and they are often serviceable for much longer than that.

In the case of the Eternal Knight Corsair, its current 'book value' is Cr85,676,400. The number of payments will depend on what you negotiate with the bank. Likewise, the actual value of the payments will depend on how many ship shares you toss in and  how many months you are financing it for.

The Last Chance Far Trader, on the other hand, has 28 remaining payments at Cr194,673.

As an additional adjustment, the Corsair has the equivalent of 15 shares because of it's age and condition (used), and the Far Trader has 6 shares.

  If I'm interpreting the above correctly, the corsair's total costs would be about 180,500 cr per month (for a full 40-year mortgage) since we'd have an effective total of 37 shares with it, while the far trader's remaining mortgage (5,850,844 total) would cost only slightly less at about 175,500 per month assuming that we have an effective total of 28 shares to put against it.

  It's not much of a cost difference and the corsair is a much more capable ship (with far more cargo capacity to boot), although we'd only have room for low passengers since the standard staterooms don't allow for double occupancy. (Depending on how many characters are still here, of course - there might be 1-2 free regular staterooms.)

  The much greater cargo capacity should more than outweigh the additional costs. It might be more of a burden to actually sell the thing if we want to trade it out afterward, though (at the naval yard as Vonon is suggesting IC), although even here the book value of the corsair (85.7 Mcr) is much better than that of the trader (~31 Mcr if it's coming off a 40-year mortgage).
This message was last edited by the player at 11:35, Sun 20 Sept 2015.

I am more concerned with how much money we can expect to make each month on average.

A lot of that depends on fate, cargo and where we go. Using 11's for buying and selling, cargoes that will always be available at each destination and Walter's stats, below is a rough idea as to the "possible" profits that can be made. As a rough guess with two deliveries a month, figure 4,000 profit per ton per month, the Corsair would average 640,000 a month, the Far trader 256,000.

(I am intentionally low balling the profit margin as we could end up with no good cargoes. We could also end up having the vessel paid off in under 6 months if there are some great cargoes.)

Route one is Grendal - Tashrakaar - Traneer - Outpost - Grendal
Route 2 is Grendal - Tashrakaar - Tharrill - Drellesarr - Datinar - Yarhfahl - Grendal

Data was calculated using the trade calculator at Traveller Highport http://travellerhighport.aws.af.cm

Normal prices per ton for goods are
Basic Electronics-10,000 Basic Machine Parts-10,000 Basic Manufactured Goods-10,000 Basic Raw Materials-5,000 Basic Consumables-2,000 Basic Ore-1,000
Those marked with ! are 4kcr or more profit per ton.

Grendal to Tashrakaar

Goods                      Purchase price  Sell Price  Profit
Basic Electronics          7,500           13,500      6,000 !
Basic Machine Parts        8,000           15,000      7,000 !
Basic Manufactured Goods   8,000           15,000      7,000 !
Basic Raw Materials        4,000            6,750      2,750
Basic Consumables          1,600            2,400        800
Basic Ore                    800            1,250        450


Tashrakaar to Traneer

Goods                      Purchase price  Sell Price  Profit
Basic Electronics          8,500           11,500      4,000 !
Basic Machine Parts        9,500           15,000      5,500 !
Basic Manufactured Goods   9,500           15,000      5,500 !
Basic Raw Materials        4,500            5,250        700
Basic Consumables          1,600            2,100        500
Basic Ore                    850            1,250        400


Traneer to Outpost

Goods                      Purchase price  Sell Price  Profit
Basic Electronics          8,500           11,500      3,000
Basic Machine Parts        9,500           15,000      5,500 !
Basic Manufactured Goods   9,500           15,000      5,500 !
Basic Raw Materials        3,250            6,000      2,750
Basic Consumables          1,300            2,400        900
Basic Ore                    850            1,250        400


Outpost to Grendal

Goods                      Purchase price  Sell Price  Profit
Basic Electronics          7,500           11,500      4,000 !
Basic Machine Parts        9,500           12,000      2,500
Basic Manufactured Goods   9,500           12,000      2,500
Basic Raw Materials        3,250            6,000      2,750
Basic Consumables          1,300            2,400        900
Basic Ore                    850            1,250        400


Tashrakaar to Tharrill

Goods                      Purchase price  Sell Price  Profit
Basic Electronics          8,500           12,000      3,500
Basic Machine Parts        9,000           15,000      6,000 !
Basic Manufactured Goods   9,000           15,000      6,000 !
Basic Raw Materials        4,250            5,500      1,250
Basic Consumables          1,500            2,200        700
Basic Ore                    800            1,250        450


Tharrill to Drellesarr

Goods                      Purchase price  Sell Price  Profit
Basic Electronics          7,500           12,000      3,500
Basic Machine Parts        9,000           15,000      6,000 !
Basic Manufactured Goods   9,000           15,000      6,000 !
Basic Raw Materials        3,250            6,000      2,750
Basic Consumables          1,300            2,400      1,100
Basic Ore                    800            1,250        450


Drellesarr to Datinar

Goods                      Purchase price  Sell Price  Profit
Basic Electronics          9,000           13,500      4,500 !
Basic Machine Parts        9,500           12,500      3,000
Basic Manufactured Goods   9,500           12,500      3,000
Basic Raw Materials        4,000            6,750      2,750
Basic Consumables          1,600            2,400        800
Basic Ore                    850            1,250        400


Datinar to Yarhfahl

Goods                      Purchase price  Sell Price  Profit
Basic Electronics          9,000           12,000      3,000
Basic Machine Parts        8,500           13,500      5,000 !
Basic Manufactured Goods   8,500           13,500      5,000 !
Basic Raw Materials        4,500            5,250        750
Basic Consumables          1,600            2,100        500
Basic Ore                    850            1,200        350


Yarhfahl to Grendal

Goods                      Purchase price  Sell Price  Profit
Basic Electronics          8,000           11,500      3,500
Basic Machine Parts        9,000           12,000      3,000
Basic Manufactured Goods   9,000           12,000      3,000
Basic Raw Materials        3,250            6,000      2,750
Basic Consumables          1,300            2,400      1,100
Basic Ore                    800            1,200        400


Now a lot depends on the cargo but the Corsair is looking better since we have the larger cargo space, it is better armed (but not armored like the Far trader) and far more maneuverable.

  If it helps your calculations, Kaengarr has been doing some work in anticipation of his meeting with Walter and has located some cargoes beyond the basics:

  20 tons of fish, fish tanks, and/or frozen fish.
  5 tons of sculptures. Another 5 tons will be available in one week.
  2 tons of pharmaceuticals. A good Broker might get more...
  2 tons of spices and gourmet foods. Another 2 tons would be available in a month (probably too long to wait).

  There's also one lot of Beryllium spheres available as freight. I don't know the destination though.
This message was lightly edited by the player at 19:46, Sun 20 Sept 2015.

One thing we should ask ourselves though is what we want this game to be. A trader game? Or more like troubleshooter with trading as a side business? A noble delegation working (directly or indirectly) for the Imperium. Something else?
This message was last edited by the player at 20:51, Sun 20 Sept 2015.

  In absence of anything else we still need to pay the bills, and I'm sure that we'll run into unexpected developments as we're going from planet to planet...

As a test, using 1 Mcr as seed money to start, 11's for the rolls and Traveller Highport to generate the cargo and sizes.(Figuring that the first months life support was part of the ship purchase along with refueling at gas giants.)

Grendal to Tashrakaar 1,000,000 purchased 960,000 balance 40,000
50 tons Basic Manufactured Goods @ 8,000/15,000 Buy/sell 400,000/750,000 (350,000)
40 tons Basic Electronics @ 7,500/13,500 Buy/sell 300,000/540,000 (240,000)
10 tons Basic Machine Parts @8,000/15,000 Buy/sell 80,000/150,000 (70,000)
50 tons Basic Raw Materials @4000/6,750 Buy/sell 200,000/337500 (137500)
10 tons basic Consumables @1600/2,400 Buy/sell 16,000/24,000 (8,000)
Balance after 1st delivery 1,840,000 (801,500 profit-Berthing cost (1d6x10)& food 1,500 total)

Tashrakaar to Traneer start 1,840,000 purchased 1,833,200 balance 6,800
60 tons Basic Machine Parts @ 9500/15,000 Buy/sell 570,000/900,000
30 tons Crystals & gems @ 16000/27000 Buy/sell 480,000/810,000
40 tons Basic Manufactured Goods @ 9500/15,000 Buy/Sell 380,000/600,000
1 ton robots @320,000/540,000
20 tons basic Ore 850/1250 Buy/Sell 17,000/25,000
7 tons Basic Electronics 9000/12500 63,000/87,500
2 tons Basic Consumables 1,600/2,100 3,200/4,200
Balance after 2nd delivery 2,973,500 (No change for berthing)
End of month
Life support/Maintenance 33,900
Rough guess on the payments for the Corsair 400,000
Balance 2,539,600 - starting money = 1,539,600 profit in the first month using the corsair.

That´s a really good question.

If we approach this as a "trader game, IE numbers game", technically, at least to a certain extent, each and everyone one of us has the potential(for those that already aren´t) to be multi-millionaires, although I´m fairly sure that in some shape, form or whatnot, the GM will make it interesting.

The question is, how difficult or easy do we, as a group, want to make it?

And, realistically, at what point would your character say, "Damn, I´m rich, what am I doing riding around in space risking my life...when I could be sitting back, wearing the best clothes, drinking the best whatever, have the best creature comforts, have all that I ever thought possible, what is my motivation?

Well, that´s something the GM and I discussed as we were getting my character organized, especially once I hit the Count level. There was alot of back and forth, which basically revolved around why someone who has it all, would pursue certain lifestyles, such as doing actually what we are now talking about.

Throughout history, even some of the most privileged wanted to make a mark, and the motivation covered all the basics of human nature(non-fantasy for a moment)....Greed, personal agendas, glory, fame, altruistic, adventure, because it was there....whatever.

Anyways, sorry I was off on a tangent there....

My point, everyone needs money, and once you feel comfortable with that amount that makes you feel secure, then all the other issues come into play.

Perhaps this should have been standard OOC.

With that said, I´m for the corsair, once we get through with the inspection group I sent for the morning (we should do that IC).

  I wouldn't worry too much about us being millionaires. The way prices work in this game, a million doesn't last very long! As for the cash flow, most of our characters would probably be able to manage reasonably well at other careers without taking all of the risks inherent to space travel, so money alone isn't likely to make them retire. It's nice to have though, especially if we're going to do anything significant later - a big piggy bank is necessary if you want to make your mark in a universe like this.

  "The Cromwell Consortium" has a nice ring, doesn't it? ;)

There's clearly something wrong with their Trade system. If it was that easy to make a million credits a month, EVERYONE would be doing it!


As it is, I've been trying to figure out a way to run a Trader campaign without having to do all that math. Someone resolve it just using a single dice roll.

After all, not everyone is going to want to do all that number crunching. THAT game is called Papers & Paychecks!


As for the nature of the campaign, I've been tentatively thinking of it as a sort of Free-wheeling Campaign, but the point of the first adventure was to get everyone together and then see how they work things out.

  The book actually suggests/recommends offloading the trade work to the players entirely since it's faster to have them handle it rather than going through a bunch of back-and-forth with the GM.

  As for the numbers there... I think the high-end Broker on the team has something to do with it. :)

So, you're saying our Broker is... broken?

  I don't think it's JUST about the Broker skill - some of those cargoes, even the basic ones, can return a pretty high margin if there's a good world combination available, even if you don't have a good broker. Basic Machine Parts and Basic Manufactured Goods from an Industrial World to a Non-Industrial World (+5 modifier on the purchase, +3 modifier on the sale), for example.

To begin with, not that many people would have the million credits for seed money let alone the money for a vessel to transport it. Part of the issue is that the broker skill factors in both buying and selling cargo.  Between his INT and the Broker skill, it swings them 10 points, on average about 50% profit.  The numbers are also not factoring in any modifiers that you might have(let alone any taxes that might be due). Taking 160 tons of cargo to a million+ person system would not be a problem, taking it to one with a E starport and 1000 people might mean waiting an extra day or two to unload (if they can afford it) and another day or two to load a cargo (if they had one) (Maybe a -2 modifier for planets with 5 pop, -4 4 pop, etc)

The 1.5Mcr earned in a month would barely buy a turret and pulse laser for the ship, let alone any repairs. If we got attacked and one of the drives got knocked out, it could run 20-40+ Mcr to repair it (if we survived)

(In CT, Walter's broker-4 would mean that he was only available at a Class A starport)

Also, living expenses will play a part. For Darrel, he will be spending 12kcr a month for his life style (Going through what we earned in 8 months, where Walter would do it in 20 months.)

My 2 creds worth

Trading is the rationale behind how you can afford to have your own ship, but roleplaying that only would get fairly dull fairly quickly.

I tend to think of the game being more like a TV season of Firefly (you could substitute similar other series, but Firefly is the only one where they are actually trading). I am not sure (and if you out geek me, and I'm wrong, fine), but I am assuming that in between episodes there were plenty of milk run trades where they made enough to keep flying, but the episodes were the 'fun' or more interesting jobs.

In Traveller terms they would be the ones where the GM rolled "pirates" or something similar on the encounter tables, or deliberately tried to guide them to a particular patron and job.

So in terms of game whilst I am happy for number crunching to happen, the interest comes from the bits that make the TV episodes. That said, a bit of routine about the trades will help us flesh out the TU we are in, in terms of giving us a standard baseline of normal (eg is an imperial Cruiser when we Jump in normal for that system, or not? Unless we've done some milk runs how might we know).

I am running a Traveller game in RL, but have never played it until I joined RPOl (and this is the second game, the first one folded really quickly), and am just a first time GM-ing it, so I too am interested in the one roll trade idea for that game, because if the Characters are not that bothered about the nitty gritty of maximizing their trade, then that whole system can be ignored.

Separately, the only motivation Sam appears to have at the moment, is a reasonably steady paycheck, you get the impression that she ended up on Grendal skint and with few options, you guys are (currently...) her best option, realistically her only one, for making a bit of coin...

Excellent summation, Sam!

Yeah, unless everyone is jiggy with the number-crunching trade system, most will get bored if only 2 or 3 are.

I'm leaning towards the group deciding how much they want to invest in trade, then make a roll and use the margin to determine degree of success. Starport will probably be the modify, as it's a general representation of a planet's financial status.


The other consideration is Patrons. I realize that's supposed to be the raison d'etre for Traveller adventures, and if that's what everyone wants to do, I'm fine with that. On the other hands, I was half expecting everyone to get into trouble on their own.

Also, in the Count's case, he would normally be the Patron. Who would be Darrel's patron?