After playing with the system for awhile I have to say that I absolutely love the new Pathfinder 2e system.

I know it isn't everyone's cup o' tea but I imagine as time goes on more and more players will convert.

I would be very happy to convert this game over to 2nd edition but I know that isn't what everyone signed up for so IF we ever get unanimous consent we can begin the conversion process.

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I am leaving this thread open for continued discussion and vote tracking. As people think about it and talk about it I'll track where our current momentum lies in terms of staying with 1e or upgrading to 2e

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As a general note IF we upgrade to 2e I am putting in very generous allowances for trial and error in terms of character design. Every time you make camp you'll be allowed to respec your character so long as it overall fits the spirit of the original character. When there are larger gaps between adventure we can talk about more radical changes or retiring characters and bringing on new ones.

I have a headache I was trying to figure out how to create Caramip in 2E, I just don't think I can. Could be the system seems a good bit different, and well one of my classes doesn't exist.

Still voting for 1E :)

You're ... not just a bard? Oh wait, did you take an oracle level?

;)

That's why the spirits are haunting me :)

Both Oracle and Bard exist in 2e.

What you would do to multiclass is pick one to be your base class, like Bard, and then at 3rd level pick up Oracle Dedication Feat to multiclass over.

Or you could become base Oracle and pick up Bard Dedication at 3rd level. Either or.

Oh the character builder I found didn't have Oracle in it for 2E...is it a newer book? Still I'm happy with 1E. I find it harder to learn new systems especially ones that deviate a lot from what I know anymore.

Well I've been on the fence about PF2 for some time.
But I took the plunge with one of the DM's other games.

There is a website for PF2 material, https://2e.aonprd.com/.
Unlike DnD5e, Pathfinder allows most all of their materials to be shared on a website.

One take-away from my 1st character using PF2 was not to overcomplicate things. It is straightforward, more than I imagined. Well at least for level 1 and 2 :)

you require a feat to multiclass?!? eww.

In reply to Saira Ramsey (msg # 8):

I believe you continue with your progression in the initial class. And you use a feat to gain additional features (like multiclass). Actually, I think this "fixes" a few places where we've been taking a dip in one class or another to gain abilities. Which has significant power boosts depending on the character builds :)

I disagree, firmly, and think there is too much effort to 'fix' such things.

in 5e just like they moved to fix the number of attacks 'issue' and tried making less attacks... just to then give niche builds ridiculous amounts of attacks.

5e is notorious for giving away multi-attacks haphazardly.

What the class feats do is that in 1e you can consider them your class options/archetype options. As you level up you can "unlock" things like druid wild shapes or specific rage powers etc.

For multi-classing you pick up what is called a Dedication feat and this unlocks the options of other classes or what was traditionally known as archetypes.

What this means is that instead of splitting levels you continue to level up in your main level (which means that spellcasters are no longer crippled by branching into other classes or fighters don't lose their primary BAB) but instead you pick and choose the feature you're looking to grab.

This means that if you pick up a barbarian's rage feat it doesn't ALSO magically come with a bunch of proficiencies. A wizard picking up fighter doesn't suddenly magically become proficient in heavy armors and advanced weaponry.

I'm not saying it is perfect. You can actually unlock a 2nd class starting at 2nd level and the features you get then are weaker. Multiclassing into a casting class only unlocks cantrips initially however the tradeoff is that if you're a fighter, for example, you aren't sacrificing hit dice or BAB to do it.

Then next time you get a class feat (I think you get them every even level: 2,4,6 etc.) you can choose to either pick up new options in your original class OR in the dedication you picked up. This ultimately creates a lot of versatility because you can cherry pick the features from different classes you want without sacrificing your core character abilities be they hit points, BAB, skill bonuses or casting ability.

From a big picture perspective this also allows you to integrate additional content into existing characters much easier without a complete rebuild. If a new "prestige class" comes out that you want you can just swap a feat or two instead of having to rebuild the entire character. It also means building towards a prestige class like Arcane Trickster or Mystic Theurge no longer means your character sucks butt for 5 levels until you finally unlock the thing that pulls it all together. You are ALWAYS a viable thief or fighter or wizard, just with expanded abilities as you level up.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:57, Tue 24 Nov 2020.

All of this is why I prefer advance-by-expenditure systems (like Warhammer Fantasy and Shadowrun) over advance-by-level systems.

I'm trying to remember the name of the webcomic that starts with the characters switching which edition of DnD they're in. Order of the Stick?

In reply to Dungeon Master (msg # 11):

You can keep trying to explain what it's trying to do all you want but it just looks gross to me. And ultimately we are talking apples and oranges because I'm talking about my frustrations with people constantly trying to 'fix' the system all the while inadvertently catering to it's legacy. Like, there is an underlying trope, stereo type, like reaping from an ever growing batch of wheat where they cut it... grow it... cut it... grow it... ever onward while calling it different shit and pretending its a different batch of wheat each time. Sometimes they cut it a little different but in the end it still levels itself out the same way.

I kind of agree with dominique though, advance by expenditure is more elegent, for sures.

and yes, order of sticks makes a in story mention/nod to edition change affects on the chars.
This message was last edited by the player at 07:06, Wed 25 Nov 2020.

For OOTs it is actually the very first comic where they go from 3.0 to 3.5

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html