FYI JOhannes, the superbowl is when they play American 'football'. It is like handball but the guys have a whole bunch of padding on so they don't get hurt.

In reply to Dungeon Master (msg # 186):

We actually lost power for about yesterday; when I got back online, RPOL was down.

Weird, you must live next door to their servers....

I think its same time zone as most of Europe now... later on, Most of Europe goes into time saving while Tunisia doesnt so there is 1 hour difference (We will be 1 behind here).

Hehe:-) hope you don't easily her offended, guys? :-)

In reply to Dungeon Master (msg # 189):

Yeah, that's what I was wondering.  It looks like their servers are hosted in Atlanta, so probably not.  I think my outage was just local, caused by strong winds.

I've always wondered if part of the reason the NFL and American football is having so many problems relating to long-term brain injuries is if all the pads make players feel safer than they actually are, so they don't worry about ramming each other at full speed.
There's some studies that show the same sort of things for automobile safety: the safer you make cars, the more dangerous people drive (on average.)  It's like people have a set level of safety they want to have, so if you make things safer, they just take more risks.

I think I end up playing with Beni in almost every single game. Good seeing you again Beni

@Alohan: Ahh we are good at picking games then... :-) what other games do we share then ?. I go by Anansi, Nasmas and Anouar in the other games I am playing... by the way I really love your portrait and the photo at the description... really cool.

The story of Beni and I begins like three, four years ago in a game called Shores of Orthanis. He played a human ranger named George I believe and I played a half-orc named Vrbata. After that game took a dive, Beni was kind enough to play in two of my games, one as a replacement player for a wizard named Valannar (or something) and then a flamboyant witch named... Ishra? Geez it has been awhile..

Anyway, fast forward a year or two and we just recently played in a game where I was a wizard named Heph and Beni was a half-orc. That game bombed however just before this game, I was a hobgoblin arcanist named Dnur and he was a thug named Rum.

RPOL is a big place but it seems I migrate towards the same group of players.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:17, Tue 03 Feb 2015.

In reply to Alohan Nuari (msg # 196):

Hey Ron, so since you are a more experienced RPOL'er, I was wandering:

- in the games that failed, what was the cause? Player dropout or DM fatigue?
- what is the longest game you have ever played in here on RPOL and what do you think was the secret to its success?

It sounds plausible. I've heard the theories before, but never seen them first hand. Intriguing, yet pretty hard to prove in reality.

Uh, any points for guessing Alohans inspiration :-) ?

ohhhhh man... play-by-post theory. Welcome to Rpol Theory 101. Today we are going to talk about fundamentals. Seriously tho, I could write a research paper. Hope you brought your reading glasses...

Why do games implode? I think the leading cause is GM fatigue BECAUSE players drop. There are two kinds of GM fatigue- 1) I am going to make this RPOL game because I have free time NOW and I am bored and 2) players keep disappearing. The first type of fatigue isn't as prevalent since many GMs already know how taxing running a campaign can be... Fundamentally, many GMs might have free time now, this week, this month, even this year, but when things in their personal life start to pick up pace the game will fall to the wayside. I think recognizing "I want to run a game" is as important as "this is a lot of work and dedication." A GM can prevent himself from burning out of his own game by recognizing his faults, when he wants to play, when he is in a rut, and communicating all of this to the players. I find RPOL games mirror relationships. There is an initial honeymoon phase where everyone refreshes their page 12 times a minute and then there is the deep set, 'I check this game in the morning, at lunch, and at dinner.' When a game evolves from the honeymoon phase into the married phase, many GMs tend to falter.

Second point was -Players keep disappearing. The dreaded player drop. Now, this is a very interesting topic since their are and uncountable reason why a player disappears. 1) players don't get along with each other or even the GM. Two games ago, Beni and I played in a neat game that was a homebrewed... Pacific islander inspired pathfinder game. There was a ton of disconnect there between the GM and his players and when Beni brought it to his attention (via PM mind you) the GM got offended enough to posted all the dirty laundry in the OOC. He asked for opinions, people gave them, and he got upset and deleted the game. You have to have thick skin. You have to be willing to communicate and you have to not be a dick. This is really standard "how to treat a human" type of stuff but it never ceases to amaze me how much RPOLers tend to lack this skillset. I actually think RPOLs stance on player anonymity is the underlying cause but that is a whole 'nother topic.

2) Players disappear cause the GM isn't putting in the work- I am of a belief that bigger and better posts and dialogue enhance the game and I believe a good, strong pacing can keep a game alive for months. BUT I recognize everyone has their own style.  I am not a diva. I can play in another DMs style and not try to influence him to be more like that one GM I had so long ago. OR influence him to be more like me and how I would GM. Everyone's style is different, doesn't make it right or wrong. Again, some players go into a game looking for one thing, then disappear when it isn't present.

In short, a GM who puts in a shit ton of effort -several stickied threads of world information- can suddenly delete his game cause 2 of his 6 recently acquired players never seem to log back in. It is heartbreaking. It takes the wind out of a GM sail. It kills the game.

So what works? I am going to toot my own horn. The longest games I have played in have been the ones I have GMed. I haven't played in a pathfinder game that has survived for more than 6 months. I don't think I have ever gain a level and the amount of games I have participated in... well I lose track. So what is my secret to success? Honestly, I don't know. I think the players I have -Jimmy included- mesh well together even if they hardly know eachother after a year and a half of playing. I know their perseverance contributes a lot to the game's success. But I also think my dedication counts for something. At least I would hope.

But yet, not even I am impervious to the dread dropped player. Out of my original 5 players, 2 had to be replaced. Fortunately, the 2 replacement players have been with me ever since. Believe me, it sucked when players drop. I was in a funk and almost brought the game to a standstill. With some creativity, and finding some great players, the game got new life and continues to this day.

So there it is class, RPOL Theory 101. Next week will be the topic of structure and why I find it important.

And yes Johannes, you may guess as to our inspiration for Alohan and Remmi! If you succeed, it will only enhance the entertainment I get out of his character.

In reply to Alohan Nuari (msg # 201):

If we guess right, will James Earl Jones play your father?  It would fit my guess, after all.

In reply to Alohan Nuari (msg # 200):

Did any of you read the thread over on the community chat forums about long RtJs?  The GM of the longest running game I'm in posted about his rationale for having a very detailed RtJ for his game.  (4 players, going on 8k posts.)  I think it might act as a kind of commitment device.

My RTJ wasn't as extensive but I also drifted away from the norm. Sure I asked for a writing sample but I encouraged potential players to just go grab one from another game. For the most part, a lot of my RTJ was just personal questions about who the players were. I tried to find some that hit on common keywords and ideals. In the end, I picked five and trusted my gut.

4 players going on 8k posts is quite impressive. How long has it been going on? If I would guess, maybe 3 years?

Actually, it started on Labor Day, 2013.  So about 1.5 years.  Admittedly, we're on our 6th OOC thread.  I think we have a tendency to chatter a lot outside of the game.

Cheaters. My 1.5 year game only has two and I am only at 4100 posts!

That's where i would put ny money too:-)

Hmm, i'm new at this, so i have missed a few 'spots'. I didn't realise there was a RPOL-code of anonymity - actually thought John - sorry, our DM, was kidding. Sorry for my ineptness :-(.

Also, i haven't done all this RTJ-stuff, as i knew John before, and he just asked me, so i don't know the value of it. Hard to have an oppinion...
This message was last edited by the player at 08:05, Wed 04 Feb 2015.

@Alohan: AHHH  THERE YOU ARE :) It really makes me happy that we meet again. [Private to Alohan Nuari: And hey... if you are looking for recruits on your game, please let me know... :) I'd love to play with you again... jeez does that sound bad.]

As for RPOL 101:

I do agree with Alohan. But I have been, and still am, in a couple of very long running games. (In one I have been for more than 2 years, and entered as a replacement, it has been going on for about 4 years I think, and in the other, since the begining for also more than 2 years).

Anyway, to me most important factors are:
- The game goes first: I mean in the game, not before personal life. That is, keeping the game alive is a task for everyone, although most of the chore falls in the GM. So what do I mean by this ?. Well, a game that does not advance gets stagnant and dies. And how does a game advance ? well... thats the problem, you see, it depends but it must be something that agrees with everyone.

That is why open communication is the most important thing needed. And open communication means that some people always need to adapt. That is why the effort is shared between players and GM. Because players also need to adapt:
- To a posting style.
- To a posting Rythm.
- To an overal theme.
- To the setting.
- To how fights are conducted (at times in pbp you need to simplify at certain fights to keep on moving... but other times you have to give the player that enjoys the strategy side of the fight have a go at it and show off his character).
- To discussing and making decissions OOC so that the game moves on. I think this is one of the most important things, that get overlooked. If in need its much better to just decide OOC the outcome of a decission or a fight or whatever, and then just make a summarising post rather than slowing everything to a halt. Not everything needs to be done IC, not everything needs to be IN Character... people need to make concessions so that things get moving with the most overall enjoyment of everyone.

Now the GM has the most work, because its his role to make the content and to keep the story moving. If the story stalls, its never the fault of the players (unless they are not posting)... and even then, its the GMs responsibility... you need to talk it out before the game is ruined and if that doesnt work, you need to sack those players before the game is ruined.

If players and GM are in the same chord, mature enough to know not always things go the way we want but that the sacrifice is worth in the sense that the game moves on and there is more enjoyement ahead, and if life doesnt make a bitch along the way (which at times just happens) then the game moves on.

Ussually though, in a group of 4-6 people a couple of replacements are needed after the first months. Most people, just go for 6, and then don't bother to replace when they get down to 4...

As for tough and hard RTJs I am really do HATE THEM... I mean, I wouldnt if the GM was actually making the same commitment when he asks for all that information and effort... but of the games I have played, those that asked for the most work have been the ones that have failed most miserably because of the GM.... and I really hate spending a week to make a good RTJ to have the game stop in a months time.

To me, what a GM should be looking for is maturity, a player that fits his play style, and commitment. The background and character can be worked together, and judging the players based on how you like the background they sent is a bit of a nonsense... if you want a background to fit your story, just work it out with the player.

So... I am liking it here very much. I like your posts... they always move forward, while giving also enough detail in a nicely written way. I like that we have discussed on the character and found common points to work on, and all that gives me lots of hope :).

AS for the game Alohan was mentioning, the reason why I wrote to the GM in the background was just to give him a suggestion on how to make his posts so that people would reply to them... He wrote a post with just a generic description, with no cues on what to do and expected that all the players would be making actions while in an alien environment that no 2 people would picture the same way... anyway, he did not take on suggestions and just said we were ruining his game, by not wanting to post.

Anyway, thanks for listening and for asking.

Cheers,
Benigno.

OH ! and one very important thing:

As the DM you are putting more work and hopes into this than anyone else. Ultimately, your word is the law and there is nothing to discuss on that. Players then have the choice of staying or leaving if they don't like it... but not of ruining the game to everyone else (least of all you who is putting the most effort).

I agree with Beni. DMing is different on PbPs which many people seem to not realize. Their tabletop group might love their style at the table but PbP is really different in some ways.

Anyway, I actually prefer the lack of anonymity coming from Johannes. Getting on a first name basis with people is so much better when running a game. It helps people put a face to a character. For example Angati becomes Beni from Spain by way of Tunisia- It just.. helps keep people together.